Do Kobe fans realize that Kobe averaged less ppg on lower efficiency than Lebron

[Human Error]

And yet they say Kobe is a better scorer?

Because Kobe took more difficult / worse shots?

They say it is a bad thing that Lebron is able to put him into a better position to shoot higher percentage shots. They say it is better to just shoot over multiple defenders. Really?

They say Kobe's fg% is lower because Kobe took more 3 pointers. But Kobe and Lebron shot almost the same number of 3 pointers per game and Lebron shot higher percentage. They say Kobe should get credit for shooting worse 3 pointers over multiple defenders?

My conclusion: Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe. Scored more, with much better efficiency.

[TheWinningFam]

lebron passed kobe ages ago comparing lebron to kobe is disrespectful to lebron at this point tbh, compare him to other top 5 players like jordan kareem duncan magic etc

[KiiiiNG]

LeBron is literally better than Kobe at every single aspect of basketball. Shit is mind-blowing. LeBron vs. Kobe is even more lopsided than Jordan vs. Kobe. :lol

[LostCause]

Kobe is a more refined scorer than Lebron and has a wider skill-set on that end

He takes bad shots which hurt his efficiency but that's simply part of his game and what made him so dangerous. Different players impact the game in different ways and for Kobe, pounding away at the defense worked best for him, even if his shot wasn't falling the threat of it still intimidated opponents

[Bankaii]

Kobe is a more refined scorer than Lebron and has a wider skill-set on that end

He takes bad shots which hurt his efficiency but that's simply part of his game and what made him so dangerous. Different players impact the game in different ways and for Kobe, pounding away at the defense worked best for him, even if his shot wasn't falling the threat of it still intimidated opponents
I'm so tired of this argument.
If Kobe had such a superior skill set why does he average less points in the regular season, playoffs, and Finals despite taking more FGA? And why does he less highs?

"Kobe has a low FG% because he takes bad shots". Whose fault is that? Having a high basketball IQ is a part of scoring. The ability to pick a part a defense and get the exact shot you want is what makes a scorer elite.

But someone will come in here and say that somehow this doesn't make Lebron the better scorer cause "81 pointzz".

[AirBonner]

Kobe is a more refined scorer than Lebron and has a wider skill-set on that end

He takes bad shots which hurt his efficiency but that's simply part of his game and what made him so dangerous. Different players impact the game in different ways and for Kobe, pounding away at the defense worked best for him, even if his shot wasn't falling the threat of it still intimidated opponents
"Refined scorer, wider skill set" words that have nothing to do with reality when talking about kobe. There is a reason kobetard's don't bring up stats.

[Spurs m8]

I'm not sure half of Kobes fans even know where their mouth is tbh

PS. Most misses EVER.

[LostCause]

You serious?

I'm sure you know there's a lot more to the comparison than just looking at extremely variable averages, but instead of pointing that out, how about this

Who's more skilled offensively, T-Mac or Blake Griffin?

[AirBonner]

You serious?

I'm sure you know there's a lot more to the comparison than just looking at extremely variable averages, but instead of pointing that out, how about this

Who's more skilled offensively, T-Mac or Blake Griffin?
And I'm sure you know there is more than a pretty fade away bricked shot.

[LostCause]

"Refined scorer, wider skill set" words that have nothing to do with reality when talking about kobe. There is a reason kobetard's don't bring up stats.

"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
― Mark Twain

You can compare stats, but without context their meaningless. Lebron is obviously more efficient than Kobe, but statistics don't do much to show who has a wider offensive skillset. You can easily see that by actually watching them play

I've no problem comparing stats just for the sake of it but really, I don't expect much in the way of a fair argument about it seeing as Kobe's career stats are already being referenced when dude's career spans 20 seasons, 6 of which he wasn't starting in or he'd suffered an injury he never returned to form from


And I'm sure you know there is more than a pretty fade away bricked shot.

Blake Griffin's career points and FG% are significantly higher than McGrady's on about the same amount of FGA per game. Meaning T-Mac bricks more than Blake, is Blake more skilled offensively or? Just curious

[AirBonner]

[QUOTE=LostCause]"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.

[CuhGetsBucks]

[QUOTE=LostCause]"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.

[LostCause]

You kinda just said you'd prefer inefficient styles to a working brand with no style. LeBron's style is more efficient and his passing is definitely light years ahead of Kobe.

I said no such thing, didn't even mention preferences. So let's not make things up

Frankly, both styles work. Kobe's not even really inefficient, just less efficient than Lebron. If you exclude post-achilles seasons and the seasons he didnt start, his FG% is .455.


That Blake to T-mac is apples to oranges; as you just compared an elbow to post player to a wing.

It honestly doesn't matter who you use for the comparison so long as their career stats are higher, so you can put someone like Clyde Drexler there if you want

[FreezingTsmoove]

Kobe wanted to put on a show... He played in hollywood for goodness sakes

At the end of the day its dumb to question the scoring ability of a guy with the 3rd most points in NBA history.

Sure Lebron will pass him one day but that day isnt coming anytime soon so lets just appreciate that it is a great accomplisment

[CuhGetsBucks]

I said no such thing, didn't even mention preferences. So let's not make things up

Frankly, both styles work. Kobe's not even really inefficient, just less efficient than Lebron. If you exclude post-achilles seasons and the seasons he didnt start, his FG% is .455.



It honestly doesn't matter who you use for the comparison so long as their career stats are higher, so you can put someone like Clyde Drexler there if you want
If You don't prefer Kobe's style what are you arguing for exactly? Because LeBron's style is clearly the better.


And nah, there's a reason why Big men usually lead the league in field goal percentage so to say it's the same is really dumb and naive holmes

[LostCause]

If You don't prefer Kobe's style what are you arguing for exactly? Because LeBron's style is clearly the better.

I'm not sure how you read my post but can't see how this

Kobe is a more refined scorer than Lebron and has a wider skill-set on that end

Has nothing to do with which one I "prefer", and everything to do with exactly what it says

And nah, there's a reason why Big men usually lead the league in field goal percentage so to say it's the same is really dumb and naive holmes

The point of the comparison is the same, which is what was being referred to, but apparently that's going over your head since you seem to only comment on why big men are different (A difference which also adds to my main point, so again, doesn't matter)

Really doesn't matter who you compare to who. Looking at career PPG/FG% etc won't tell you whether Player A is more refined offensively, or has a wider array of ways to get a basket than Player B

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Using career PPG is basically useless. Kobe played with Shaq half of his career, who the Lakers primarily built and played their offense around. Kobe was more than efficient in TS% so I'm also not sure why people are acting like he was below league average.

Kobe is the better scorer.

More scoring records, ability, and skills. The variety in ways dude can score also makes him LESS prone to being stopped in an isolated possession.

[TommyGriffin]

And yet they say Kobe is a better scorer?

Because Kobe took more difficult / worse shots?

They say it is a bad thing that Lebron is able to put him into a better position to shoot higher percentage shots. They say it is better to just shoot over multiple defenders. Really?

They say Kobe's fg% is lower because Kobe took more 3 pointers. But Kobe and Lebron shot almost the same number of 3 pointers per game and Lebron shot higher percentage. They say Kobe should get credit for shooting worse 3 pointers over multiple defenders?

My conclusion: Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe. Scored more, with much better efficiency.
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

I suggest you do some research my friend.

[Mr Feeny]

Using career PPG is basically useless. Kobe played with Shaq half of his career, who the Lakers primarily built and played their offense around. Kobe was more than efficient in TS% so I'm also not sure why people are acting like he was below league average.

Kobe is the better scorer.

More scoring records, ability, and skills. The variety in ways dude can score also makes him LESS prone to being stopped in an isolated possession.

One what planet is Kobe more efficient than lebron? This is a joke, surely.

[knicksman]

What bran stans dont get is that there is something far more important than efficiency/production/PER which is called effectiveness. Just like quality, it cant be quantified but if youre not dumb, you know damn well its far more important than quantity.


Shooting 100000 shots a day means nothing if you have a bad form. Same is true for lebron. His PER means nothing if he gets stopped by the best of the best or else wilt shouldve been the greatest player if we only consider PER. We all knew wilt gets stopped when it matters, thus a less effective player than jordan.


The same is true for shaq. His MDE means nothing when teams can just hack-a-shaq. Thats why he never won anything until kobe came around. And lebron wouldnt have won anything too had he not played with kobe-like players. Lebron needs kobe more than kobe needs him thus kobe>lebron.

[BigKAT]

Kobe's Great.
Lebron's Great.

Lebron is considered greater by a great deal of people.
Kobe is considered greater by less, though still alot.

Can we please go home?

[SwayDizzle]

let's keep it real for a second here.

lebron hasn't done enough yet to surpass kobe on the all time list. he is on pace to surpass him but hasn't yet so let's just stop with all this nonsense.

current rankings:

kobe GOAT #5
lebron GOAT #10

[ILLsmak]

And yet they say Kobe is a better scorer?

Because Kobe took more difficult / worse shots?

They say it is a bad thing that Lebron is able to put him into a better position to shoot higher percentage shots. They say it is better to just shoot over multiple defenders. Really?

They say Kobe's fg% is lower because Kobe took more 3 pointers. But Kobe and Lebron shot almost the same number of 3 pointers per game and Lebron shot higher percentage. They say Kobe should get credit for shooting worse 3 pointers over multiple defenders?

My conclusion: Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe. Scored more, with much better efficiency.

Kobe is a really good scorer.

That being said: when I think of scorer, I think of ability to manufacture points more than efficiency. I don't know if Kobe is a better scorer than Bron because Bron is also a really good scorer.

The most I would be willing to commit to right now is that they are about equal, given the ability of Kobe to create points and the ability of Bron to be efficient.

But if there was a game where it was like Kobe and Bron were given equal teams, in their peak form, and they said... this game is about who scores the most points, I would say Kobe would probably outscore him.

I do think Kobe is a bit cancerous as a scorer, though, but being fair, I think it's lame that everyone underestimates his ability because his %s aren't as sexy as Brons.

-Smak

[aj1987]

let's keep it real for a second here.

lebron hasn't done enough yet to surpass kobe on the all time list. he is on pace to surpass him but hasn't yet so let's just stop with all this nonsense.

current rankings:

kobe GOAT #5
lebron GOAT #10
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

let's keep it real for a second here.

lebron hasn't done enough yet to surpass kobe on the all time list. he is on pace to surpass him but hasn't yet so let's just stop with all this nonsense.

current rankings:

kobe GOAT #5
lebron GOAT #10I love this guy:oldlol:
I can't even hate:roll: :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

One what planet is Kobe more efficient than lebron? This is a joke, surely.

Your comprehension skills are the joke here. On "what planet" did I claim Kobe was more efficient than LeBron?

I'll wait.

[toprange]

who gets the last shot between kobe and lebron? :sleeping

[34-24 Footwork]

Kobe sucks at scoring, passing, rebounding, dribbling and defense.

Does anybody have anything to refute the above statement?

[SouBeachTalents]

let's keep it real for a second here.

lebron hasn't done enough yet to surpass kobe on the all time list. he is on pace to surpass him but hasn't yet so let's just stop with all this nonsense.

current rankings:

kobe GOAT #5
lebron GOAT #10

More MVP's, more FMVP's, and better regular season, postseason and Finals stats, but hasn't surpassed him yet :roll:

[toprange]

More MVP's, more FMVP's, and better regular season, postseason and Finals stats, but hasn't surpassed him yet :roll:
MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record

[SouBeachTalents]

MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record

No, it's just that LeBron's been the best player in more regular seasons and Finals than Kobe has. Not only that, all of his MVP's & FMVP's are indisputable, while Kobe's MVP is very debatable, and a lot of people feel the same about his second FMVP. And Kobe has a "MUCH" better Finals record because he had Shaq averaging 35/15 in the Finals for 3 straight titles

[toprange]

No, it's just that LeBron's been the best player in more regular seasons and Finals than Kobe has. Not only that, all of his MVP's & FMVP's are indisputable, while Kobe's MVP is very debatable, and a lot of people feel the same about his second FMVP. And Kobe has a "MUCH" better Finals record because he had Shaq averaging 35/15 in the Finals for 3 straight titles
Kobe is MUCH better than lebron. These are FACTS

MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record

[aj1987]

Kobe is MUCH better than lebron. These are FACTS

MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record
Midrange:

LeBron - 38.4%
Kobe - 40.2%

3 point:

LeBron - 34%
Kobe - 32.9%

Finals:

LeBron - 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS
Kobe - 25/6/5/2/1 on 54% TS

tl;dr - LeBron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chokebe

[Lord P]

Kobe is MUCH better than lebron. These are FACTS

MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record

Kobe also has lower general field goal percentage while averaging less ppg.
Kobe was carried to 3 rings by the MDE while being a 40% finals scorer in his only two rings without shaq.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe is MUCH better than lebron. These are FACTS

MVP - media hype
FMVP - media hype
Regular Season stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket
Post Season/Finals stats - Kobe has a MUCH better FG% outside 0-2 feet from the basket and a MUCH better Finals Record

Repeated the same exact argument word for word, not even a remote attempt at a rebuttal :oldlol:

[toprange]

Midrange:

LeBron - 38.4%
Kobe - 40.2%

3 point:

LeBron - 34%
Kobe - 32.9%

Finals:

LeBron - 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS
Kobe - 25/6/5/2/1 on 54% TS

tl;dr - LeBron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chokebe

Here are both their playoff fg% by distance (measured by feet from the basket)


Lebron
FG% by distance
0-2 72%
3-9 38%
10-15 34%
16<3 36%
3P 32%


Kobe
FG% by distance
0-2 61%
3-9 47%
10-15 45%
16<3 40%
3P 33%


Lebron shoots less than 40% outside of 2 feet from the basket. That is terrible. This is why lebron is not considered a REAL clutch player. He is limited to shots that are within 0-2 feet from the basket.

[Mr Feeny]

Here are both their playoff fg% by distance (measured by feet from the basket)


Lebron
FG% by distance
0-2 72%
3-9 38%
10-15 34%
16<3 36%
3P 32%


Kobe
FG% by distance
0-2 61%
3-9 47%
10-15 45%
16<3 40%
3P 33%


Lebron shoots less than 40% outside of 2 feet from the basket. That is terrible. This is why lebron is not considered a REAL clutch player. He is limited to shots that are within 0-2 feet from the basket.


What's their overall fg% in the playoffs? :lol

[aj1987]

Here are both their playoff fg% by distance (measured by feet from the basket)


Lebron
FG% by distance
0-2 72%
3-9 38%
10-15 34%
16<3 36%
3P 32%


Kobe
FG% by distance
0-2 61%
3-9 47%
10-15 45%
16<3 40%
3P 33%


Lebron shoots less than 40% outside of 2 feet from the basket. That is terrible. This is why lebron is not considered a REAL clutch player. He is limited to shots that are within 0-2 feet from the basket.
Kobe - 54% TS in the PO's
LeBron - 57% TS in the PO's

Kobe - 25/6/5/2/1 on 54% in the Finals
LeBron - 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% in the Finals

[AirBonner]

Lol kobetard's have to break down the offense of Lebron to have ANY sort of argument. The goal is to put the ball in the hoop. Which lebron does better. FACT.

[Mr Feeny]

Lol kobetard's have to break down the offense of Lebron to have ANY sort of argument. The goal is to put the ball in the hoop. Which lebron does better. FACT.

Kobtards have been on suicide watch since 18 wins and 35% shooting for the season:lol

[toprange]

Lol kobetard's have to break down the offense of Lebron to have ANY sort of argument. The goal is to put the ball in the hoop. Which lebron does better. FACT.
Advanced stats too much for you? :roll:

[AirBonner]

Advanced stats too much for you? :roll:
Are facts too much for you?

[HurricaneKid]

[QUOTE=LostCause]"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.

[toprange]

Kobe's Great.
Lebron's Great.

Lebron is considered greater by a great deal of people.
Kobe is considered greater by less, though still alot.

Can we please go home?
Kobe is considered greater by great deal of PLAYERS
Lebron is considered greater by FAR LESS.

Now you can go home

[Bankaii]

Using career PPG is basically useless. Kobe played with Shaq half of his career, who the Lakers primarily built and played their offense around. Kobe was more than efficient in TS% so I'm also not sure why people are acting like he was below league average.

Kobe is the better scorer.

More scoring records, ability, and skills. The variety in ways dude can score also makes him LESS prone to being stopped in an isolated possession.
Using career ppg is only useless because it doesn't fit your agenda.
Kobe FGA from 2000-2010: 21.5
Lebron FGA from 2006-16: 19.7

If anything playing with Shaq should have boosted his efficiency and helped him score more becausenhenwas still taking the same amount of FGA.

Using regular season scoring records as a means to justify your claim:oldlol:
Why not use playoffs stats? Why not use PO/Finals 30/40/50 point games and records?
Despite the fact that all objective measures says otherwise, Kobe still is the better scorer? Clown:oldlol:

[SwayDizzle]

Time to be real ok?

There is a reason why kobe is the most entertaining player to watch, only MJ comes close. Even all these pathetic 'haters' still watched kobe more than his own stans looool.

[LostCause]

Lol kobetard's have to break down the offense of Lebron to have ANY sort of argument. The goal is to put the ball in the hoop. Which lebron does better. FACT.

Which one is it?


There is a reason kobetard's don't bring up stats.

You can go to stats, but stats can support whatever argument you want them to. For one, comparing Kobe career-wise to Bron now is unfair. One has 20 seasons, other 13 and still declining where KB already declined. One's never been the same following an injury, the other had no such injury. One wasn't even a starter early the other has started his entire career. Unless we're waiting until the end of Brons career there's only one fair way to compare ....Eliminate said variables to get them close to even footing. That's fair, right?

These are what their shooting splits look like (Kobe's only start at year 2000 on BBallReference, so no need to remove variables here).
Percentage of Shots taken by distance (feet): I'll be rounding to make them easier to understand
Kobe
0-2 - 22%
3-9 - 13%
10-15 - 17%
16 - <3 - 28%
3p - 20%

Lebron
0-2 - 35%
3-9 - 12%
10-15 - 10%
16 - <3 - 23%
3p - 20%

Now for their FG% on these shots
Kobe
0-2 - 64%
3-9 - 45%
10-15 - 44%
16 - <3 - 41%
3P - 34%

Lebron
0-2 - 73%
3-9 - 43%
10-15 - 36%
16 - <3 - 39%
3p - 34%

Objectively speaking, it's pretty obvious which has a superior scoring ability from all over the floor. Brons better at the rim & equal at 3 , but his in-between game lacks behind KB when you leave that 0-2 foot range. He's naturally going to be more efficient by taking more shots at the rim, but he takes and makes less shots from pretty much everywhere else aside from 3

Overall their career stats with the variables I mentioned earlier removed are (Kobe's averages from his 1st year starting until 2013, achilles tear. Cuts out 5 years, bringing KB's total years in the comparison down to 15 and Brons 13. Much more accurate comparison)(Not rounded):
Kobe - 27.4ppg on 45% FG and 33% 3p
Lebron - 27.2ppg on 49% FG and 34% 3p

Points are points regardless how you get em. Bron can get you about the same amount of points as Kobe with his more efficient game of not shooting as much from midrange but getting to the rim more, whereas Kobe is a bit less efficient due to taking a larger portion of mid-range shots (even though he makes them at a good rate, actually, unlike Bron who shoots below 40% on midrange shots overall)

TL;DR stats can be used to show anything. I don't see what's wrong with, or so hard to believe about Kobe being more refined offensively than Bron. 2 points are still 2 points. Bron gets those points more efficiently, but it doesn't mean he's as offensively refined as Kobe - as the "stats" show, his shot selection simply lends itself to higher efficiency. If you want to try another exercise, equalize their shot selections. If you have Bron take the same number of shots Kobe does from all over the floor, his overall FG% would drop considerably. If you have Kobe take the shots Bron does, his FG% would rise. This highlights the fact that it literally comes down to shot selection (Though Lebron is better in the paint without question, shouldn't need to have said this but some Bron fans might be feeling insecure)

Won't bother posting the playoff stats as they reflect the same things. FWIW, my personal opinion on them is here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12591687&postcount=51)

[tpols]

Lost cause, aj's been doing that spam stats for a while.. he purposely blends all areas together and calls it midrange, when it isnt.. your splits show the reality of the distribution. The trolling on this forum is out of hand.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Using career ppg is only useless because it doesn't fit your agenda.
Kobe FGA from 2000-2010: 21.5
Lebron FGA from 2006-16: 19.7

If anything playing with Shaq should have boosted his efficiency and helped him score more becausenhenwas still taking the same amount of FGA.

Using regular season scoring records as a means to justify your claim:oldlol:
Why not use playoffs stats? Why not use PO/Finals 30/40/50 point games and records?
Despite the fact that all objective measures says otherwise, Kobe still is the better scorer? Clown:oldlol:

Uhhh, its useless because the offense wasn't centered around Kobe for half of his career. You can post FGA as some "fact" until you're blue in the face, it still and won't EVER encapsulate this context. F*cking idiot :oldlol:

Now post Kobe's PPG from 2005-2010, aka his prime where he was THE go-to man in LA.

[Bankaii]

Uhhh, its useless because the offense wasn't centered around Kobe for half of his career. You can post FGA as some "fact" until you're blue in the face, it still and won't EVER encapsulate this context. F*cking idiot :oldlol:

Now post Kobe's PPG from 2005-2010, aka his prime where he was THE go-to man in LA.
That's should make it EASIER for him to score dipshit. He had Shaq drawing double/triple teams allowing to get way more open looks than post-Shaq, which is why his average range kept increasing post-2004.

For example, Kyrie was able to put up such a historic performance because Lebron was the primary option gaining most of the defensive attention. If you take away Lebron Kyrie is no where near as efficient or dominant because he'd be focal point.

And now you're just being disingenuous. Kobe's FGA from 05-07 are going to be much higher because he had trash teams during that stretch and had to put forth a higher offensive production.
From 05-07 he had 24 FGA.
From 08-10 he had 21 FGA for 27 points.
From 00-04 he had 21 FGA for 26 points.

So aside from his trash team stretch, his stats look almost identical. Now shut your dumb ass up.

[aj1987]

Lost cause, aj's been doing that spam stats for a while.. he purposely blends all areas together and calls it midrange, when it isnt.. your splits show the reality of the distribution. The trolling on this forum is out of hand.
:biggums:

Are you actually serious or do you not understand SIMPLE numbers? I have NEVER fudged numbers and I really don't cherrypick either. If Kobe's numbers are better, I WILL post them. Kobe's a better midrange shooter than LeBron and I DID post those numbers. Kobe shoots about 4.6% better than LeBron on jumpshots and I DID post those numbers as well.

Here are the exact numbers:

LeBron:
(74+108+111+155+153+204+180+201+167+167+205+156+11 1)/(183+302+294+349+411+471+454+499+466+485+539+418+3 15)

38.41%

Kobe:
(226+234+290+139+101+322+257+236+295+218+167+195+1 52+74+81+5)/(556+605+705+383+263+768+604+615+680+506+447+469+3 78+237+208+18)

40.20

LeBron's entire career vs Kobe's numbers as a starter. Of course, I did this at teh beginning of the '16 season, so the numbers aren't accurate as they don't have the entire '16 season.

:oldlol:

Now we've been reduced to comparing Kobe prime/peak to LeBron's entire career?

Lets look at some numbers:

Kobe in RS - 32.9% 3pt%
LeBron in the RS - 34% 3pt%

Kobe in the PO's - 33.1% 3pt%
LeBron in the PO's - 32.1% 3p%

Kobe in the Finals - 34% 3pt%
LeBron in the Finals - 37% 3pt%

Kobe is also a career 40.2% shooter from the midrange and LeBron is at 38.41%. Since '01, Kobe took 13.35 jumpshots a game in the PO's and made 5.29 of them at 39.66%. LeBron, since '06 (his first PO's), took 13.53 jumpshots a game in the PO's and made 4.75 of them at 35.06%.

There's a reason at to why LeBron is a better scorer in the PO's, Finals, G7's, and elimination games.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 5
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 8
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 40
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 17
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 37
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 84
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 199
Kobe - 220

LeBron in the finals:

https://s32.postimg.org/hx7i4jk11/lbjfinals.jpg

Kobe in the Finals:

https://s31.postimg.org/sx3tdb1kr/kobefinals.jpg

Eliminaton Game Averages:

LeBron James (Team record - 10-8):

32.6 PPG 10.7 RPG 7.1 APG 1.6 SPG 1.1 BPG 3.9 TO's 46.7% FG 68.2% FT

Kobe Bryant (Team record - 8-10):

22.0 PPG 5.7 RPG 3.4 APG 1.0 SPG 0.67 BPG 41.6% FG 77.6% FT 25.9% 3pt

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png


Straight FACTS, dude.

[34-24 Footwork]

That's should make it EASIER for him to score dipshit. He had Shaq drawing double/triple teams allowing to get way more open looks than post-Shaq, which is why his average range kept increasing post-2004.

For example, Kyrie was able to put up such a historic performance because Lebron was the primary option gaining most of the defensive attention. If you take away Lebron Kyrie is no where near as efficient or dominant because he'd be focal point.

And now you're just being disingenuous. Kobe's FGA from 05-07 are going to be much higher because he had trash teams during that stretch and had to put forth a higher offensive production.
From 05-07 he had 24 FGA.
From 08-10 he had 21 FGA for 27 points.
From 00-04 he had 21 FGA for 26 points.

So aside from his trash team stretch, his stats look almost identical. Now shut your dumb ass up.

The moment you realize that Kobe Bryant was also doubled and tripled in the NBA finals, as well.

You weren't watching basketball back then and it shows throughout everyone of your posts. Between you and Aj, you guys talk so much about that 3 peat but its super obvious that you guys didn't watch it. Both those guys were doubled NIGHTLY.

[JT123]

The moment you realize that Kobe Bryant was also doubled and tripled in the NBA finals, as well.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm a huge Kobe fan too, but not even I can pretend he ever saw a double team pre 2003 :no:

[aj1987]

The moment you realize that Kobe Bryant was also doubled and tripled in the NBA finals, as well.

You weren't watching basketball back then and it shows throughout everyone of your posts. Between you and Aj, you guys talk so much about that 3 peat but its super obvious that you guys didn't watch it. Both those guys were doubled NIGHTLY.
Again, dumbass, point out a SINGLE post, where I said Kobe wasn't doubled at all. You've avoided my posts like a little bitch whenever I called you out. :oldlol:

I've watched more games this season alone, than you have in your entire life.. :cheers:

[tpols]

Straight FACTS, dude.


Stats aren't facts by a long shot because no two players have the same situations.. if a perfect experiment could be conducted and we could see everyone's results in every possible combination of supporting cast and competition? Then yea, the comparisons would be a perfect one to ones.. but they're not.. even close.

Which is why its hilarious when i check on the nba forum here and there i see you spamming stats from situations you never even saw.. like Wilt for example.. and acting like you're spitting knowledge when you look like a prideful fool trying to educate older posetrs who actually saw and grasped the context behind the numerical representations.


like this shit ....





Here are the exact numbers:

LeBron:
(74+108+111+155+153+204+180+201+167+167+205+156+11 1)/(183+302+294+349+411+471+454+499+466+485+539+418+3 15)

38.41%

Kobe:
(226+234+290+139+101+322+257+236+295+218+167+195+1 52+74+81+5)/(556+605+705+383+263+768+604+615+680+506+447+469+3 78+237+208+18)

40.20

LeBron's entire career vs Kobe's numbers as a starter. Of course, I did this at teh beginning of the '16 season, so the numbers aren't accurate as they don't have the entire '16 season.

:oldlol:



this isn't basketball.. it's just something else.. lmao

[jrjim]

Stats arent facts, theyre evidence. And it's much better evidence than "My opinion is that Kobe is better"

[aj1987]

Stats aren't facts by a long shot because no two players have the same situations.. if a perfect experiment could be conducted and we could see everyone's stats in every possible combination of supporting cast and competition? Then yea, the comparisons would be a perfect one to ones.. but they're not.. even close.

Which is why its hilarious when i check on the nba forum here and there i see you spamming stats from situations you never even saw.. like Wilt for example.. and acting like you're spitting knowledge when you look like a prideful fool trying to educate older posetrs who actually saw and grasped the context behind the numerical representations.

like this shit ....

this isn't basketball.. it's just something else.. lmao

Dude, you can't backup your retarded claims. No matter how much you cry and whine like a bitch, the FACT remains that LeBron is a significantly better player your idol EVER was. Stats backup my points and there's a shit ton of footage to prove it as well. LeBron and Kobe aren't even in the same tier anymore as players. Everything I claim, I've backed it up.

It's painfully obvious that you actually never watch ANY basketball. The only thing you're clinging onto is "ringzz". Again, when context applied shows just how much idiotic it is to claim that Kobe is better than LeBron because of "ringzz'. You literally jizz your pants whenever there's a stat showing that Kobe's better than LeBron, but when it's the other way around, you just brush them aside. You can't refute anything I claim and are not resorting to this BS.

Since you seem to have short term memory loss, those numbers are they shots made and attempts from midrange each season (Kobe as a starter and LeBron for his career). Unlike you Kobe stans, I never fudge my numbers and cherrypick stats. Heck, you're crying over a stat which clearly shows that Kobe is better than LeBron from midrange.

"Stats aren't facts". Just shows how deluded you Kobe stans are.


Stats arent facts, theyre evidence. And it's much better evidence than "My opinion is that Kobe is better"
:oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's should make it EASIER for him to score dipshit. He had Shaq drawing double/triple teams allowing to get way more open looks than post-Shaq, which is why his average range kept increasing post-2004.

For example, Kyrie was able to put up such a historic performance because Lebron was the primary option gaining most of the defensive attention. If you take away Lebron Kyrie is no where near as efficient or dominant because he'd be focal point.

And now you're just being disingenuous. Kobe's FGA from 05-07 are going to be much higher because he had trash teams during that stretch and had to put forth a higher offensive production.
From 05-07 he had 24 FGA.
From 08-10 he had 21 FGA for 27 points.
From 00-04 he had 21 FGA for 26 points.

So aside from his trash team stretch, his stats look almost identical. Now shut your dumb ass up.

Huh? How does not being the center of an offense, somehow, make you a better scorer? Like, do you understand the difference between volume and efficiency...? Kobe benefting from Shaq's double and triple teams didnt make him a greater scorer you goofy idiot.

I also never asked you to post his FGA. I literally just explained why it would be inaccurate to pass them off as end all be all. You then post how "disingenuous" it would be to use Kobe's 2006 and 2007 seasons but ignore your hero monopolozing the ball at historical rates, pre Wade and Miami.

The lengths you fanboys go. Cant make this shit up. :oldlol:

[Screamin A Smit]

Damn kobe fam still gettin pissed on :lol

[Smoke117]

Tpols melting down as per usual :roll:

[PJR]

Basketball is a game of possessions. And pretty much ALL the objective information says that when it comes to scoring, LeBron James maximizes possessions at a far better rate.

What's the debate? :confusedshrug:

[ILLsmak]

Stats are FACTS. You can cherry pick stats to be sure, but you cannot make them up.



Stats are facts but they have no value until you put them into context. That's what he means. You can imply a lot by just throwing a stat out there. A stat-line is a factual representation of the data acquired, but it doesn't tell the whole story. The closest thing to a fact in bball is W and L, but even then it doesn't tell why you won.

It's like if I say Kobe is better at scoring, and you say Bron is better at scoring, and first I say 81 points, and then you say TS%. Then you say career ppg, then you say high for finals series, etc. You have stated 'facts' but none of them really prove anything.

In most cases, you should assume that people know the facts (esp in something like sports where mainly its related to watching the games... memorizing the stat-lines) and have theoretical arguments. That's what I prefer. Try to work in between the spaces of 35 ppg and 57% FG% and really carve out your own opinion, supported by viewpoints.

People believe saying NAH then posting stats is the strongest argument, but it's not. It doesn't show any understanding of the material you are discussing. It's something any 13 year old troll can do.

We should try to have more 'deep bball discussion' opposed to being like LOL NUB 5 RANGZ. Which is basically what it seems like when people only post stats. I would even discuss all of these tired topics of people would bring up new points of view. Opposed to just weighting one stat over the other (hardly explaining why) and posting it like it's 'fact.'

Explain to me why your hypothetical 60% weaker jumper player, who scores fewer points on fewer shots, is better than the guy who is out there chucking and getting 35. The mistake people make is that they think they're not spouting their opinion either way. The 'opinion' part is what stats matter. Not to mention, most people have their opinion and then use stats to support it, not the other way around.

At best you could say it is situational.

-Smak

[Timrock]

another kobe v lebron thread? with the same damn comments as all the others threads.

[tpols]

smak.. i think this image sums it up nicely




http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/quotes/2/97376-statistics-on-mark-twain-quotes.jpg




Things havent changed much it appears .. i guess in Twain's time it was the same way. People have a unhealthy dependency for leaning on numbers to compensate for a lack of knowledge. numbers and statistics have been used as propaganda for most of human history im assuming...


when it comes to basketball though, most posters here dont actually want to talk ball .. they will just spam sheets from bball ref, which, like you said, anybody can do, but are completely hopeless when it comes to breaking down specific parts of the game with legit analysis ..

[tpols]

a perfect example is that who takes the last shot, Kobe or Bron ? thread



The statistics showed that LeBron has been better in end game situations. But when we saw prime Lebron and prime Kobe on the same team together in 2008, it was Kobe who was trusted with closing the game with his halfcourt scoring.

What the stats wont tell you is that Lebron tends to be very conservative in taking his shots, while kobe is gung ho.. So if Kobe misses a couple shots, and Lebron omits taking those same shots instead passing to haslem or something for a miss, Kobe will get all those negative points against his count, while bron wont.. but they both failed in that situation.

When it comes down to it, you can just look at their make up and skillset as players and make a pretty easy choice.. like the coaches did when they named Bryant captain and allowed him role of lead closer in the tightest moments.


but lebron stans will just go, like you said, "nahhh.. 123456 ..."


and think theyre somehow informed or telling anybody anything.

[HurricaneKid]

a perfect example is that who takes the last shot, Kobe or Bron ? thread



The statistics showed that LeBron has been better in end game situations. But when we saw prime Lebron and prime Kobe on the same team together in 2008, it was Kobe who was trusted with closing the game with his halfcourt scoring.

What the stats wont tell you is that Lebron tends to be very conservative in taking his shots, while kobe is gung ho.. So if Kobe misses a couple shots, and Lebron omits taking those same shots instead passing to haslem or something for a miss, Kobe will get all those negative points against his count, while bron wont.. but they both failed in that situation.

When it comes down to it, you can just look at their make up and skillset as players and make a pretty easy choice.. like the coaches did when they named Bryant captain and allowed him role of lead closer in the tightest moments.


but lebron stans will just go, like you said, "nahhh.. 123456 ..."


and think theyre somehow informed or telling anybody anything.

So LeBron makes the correct basketball play and the possession ends up with a wide open jumper vs Kobe shooting 18% or whatever on horrifying shot selection.

And you actually believe that is an argument FOR Kobe. THAT is the fundamental difference between the two players/fans.

[HurricaneKid]

smak.. i think this image sums it up nicely




http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/quotes/2/97376-statistics-on-mark-twain-quotes.jpg




Things havent changed much it appears .. i guess in Twain's time it was the same way. People have a unhealthy dependency for leaning on numbers to compensate for a lack of knowledge. numbers and statistics have been used as propaganda for most of human history im assuming...


when it comes to basketball though, most posters here dont actually want to talk ball .. they will just spam sheets from bball ref, which, like you said, anybody can do, but are completely hopeless when it comes to breaking down specific parts of the game with legit analysis ..

And Mark Twain existed in an age where snake oil salesmen was a legitimate job title. And they routinely quoted "statistics" about their serum.

It is EVIDENT, using any and all metrics, that LeBron James is clearly the superior player. His on court impact is higher. He scores more on better efficiency. He passes better, rebounds better, is a significantly better defender, etc. This isn't an arguable point any more. This is you suggesting the world is flat and calling all evidence to the contrary "balderdash".

[Smoke117]

So LeBron makes the correct basketball play and the possession ends up with a wide open jumper vs Kobe shooting 18% or whatever on horrifying shot selection.

And you actually believe that is an argument FOR Kobe. THAT is the fundamental difference between the two players/fans.

Pretty much.

[Cap'n Obvious]

This thread was obvious.

[tpols]

So LeBron makes the correct basketball play and the possession ends up with a wide open jumper vs Kobe shooting 18% or whatever on horrifying shot selection.

And you actually believe that is an argument FOR Kobe. THAT is the fundamental difference between the two players/fans.

again .. why was Kobe the one trusted with closing games in the tightest moments when they were on the same team then ? were the coaches dumb ? should they have listened to trolls on this site spamming sheets of numbers? or is the real world, behind the scenes a bit more complicated than that?

[Kenomax]

Kobe fanboys are too stupid to face the facts. But facts are OBVIOUS !
LeBron is way ahead in scoring, offensive game and overall basketball career and impact. :hammertime:

[Bankaii]

Huh? How does not being the center of an offense, somehow, make you a better scorer? Like, do you understand the difference between volume and efficiency...? Kobe benefting from Shaq's double and triple teams didnt make him a greater scorer you goofy idiot.

I also never asked you to post his FGA. I literally just explained why it would be inaccurate to pass them off as end all be all. You then post how "disingenuous" it would be to use Kobe's 2006 and 2007 seasons but ignore your hero monopolozing the ball at historical rates, pre Wade and Miami.

The lengths you fanboys go. Cant make this shit up. :oldlol:
"Post prime Kobe's stats from when he was was the go to man"
I posted FGA to prove to you that playing with Shaq didn't stunt his scoring, he still had the exact same amount of attempts.
I also used Kyrie as a clear example as to how playing next to a dominant offensive player should boost your efficiency and help your scoring.
Did you really just say that a teammate getting tripled didn't help his scoring? How stupid are you?

And from that 2006-2010 period when Lebron "monopolized" the ball he took the same amount of FGA as 2000-04 and 2008-2010 Kobe, so there's goes that bullshit.

Now you're resorting to insults because tour shit argument got destroyed. Just take the L and move on, you have no real argument.

[Timrock]

Kobe fanboys are too stupid to face the facts. But facts are OBVIOUS !
LeBron is way ahead in scoring, offensive game and overall basketball career and impact. :hammertime:
so why do LeBron fans keep arguing about it and creating threads?

[BedroomBully]

Here are both their playoff fg% by distance (measured by feet from the basket)


Lebron
FG% by distance
0-2 72%
3-9 38%
10-15 34%
16<3 36%
3P 32%


Kobe
FG% by distance
0-2 61%


3-9 47%
10-15 45%
16<3 40%
3P 33%




Lebron shoots less than 40% outside of 2 feet from the basket. That is terrible. This is why lebron is not considered a REAL clutch player. He is limited to shots that are within 0-2 feet from the basket.
Where is your source? Site your source or don't post anything!

[Kenomax]

so why do LeBron fans keep arguing about it and creating threads?

Because there are still dozens of idiots who try to tell us Kobe was better. :facepalm

[TommyGriffin]

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Read and learn.

[Nash]

Lebron is about to pass Kobe in the all time scoring list in playoffs in like 5 postseasons less.

Lebron is literally better than Kobe at everything. The argument was even dead before Lebron's latest championship heroics.

I don't understand why we're having Lebron vs Kobe discussions. It's like having a Kareem vs David Robinson discussion.

Its
not
close

[LostCause]

Mark Twain was literally alive when they were selling actual snake oil. They would legitimately MAKE UP STATS.

Stats are FACTS. You can cherry pick stats to be sure, but you cannot make them up.

You are free to have your own opinions. You are NOT free to have your own facts. It is a frightening thing that in an age when we literally have all the information at our finger tips, a huge portion of our populace would rather make up facts to fit their opinions.

I actually didn't even see this post

You absolutely can make up stats, facts you can't, stats you can. Statistics and Facts are not one in the same. It really doesn't even make sense to say this, even in the context of basketball. For example, let's say Draymond Green has 5 fouls but clearly commits an over-the-back foul on a rebound and isn't called for it. At the end of the game, the stats sheet will say he only committed 5 fouls. However, according to the rulebook, he committed 6. There's a clear contradiction here as the stats won't match the fact. Fouls aren't only fouls if a referee calls them or they're recorded on the stat sheet

That aside, stats are pliable means they can pretty much be used to say whatever you want them to, just depends on who's using them, how and why. On this very site you see many threads where people use the SAME stats to argue different things by putting it into different context. "Player A had these stats cuz he's bad" on one hand, "Player A had these stats due to role/coaching" on the other, etc

Context matters. Without context, statistics are just empty numbers.


And Mark Twain existed in an age where snake oil salesmen was a legitimate job title. And they routinely quoted "statistics" about their serum

You're not really naive enough to believe some of the statistics you see/hear NOW aren't made up too, are you? Almost everyone has an agenda they use statistics to spin, doesn't matter what "time" you're from.

You probably see the same shit just browsing this site and looking at ads, or your spam folder in your email, or watching a few commercials, the news, etc. For example:

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

An article that references a study missing important context due to an agenda. What context is missing?

[SwayDizzle]

Lebron is about to pass Kobe in the all time scoring list in playoffs in like 5 postseasons less.

Lebron is literally better than Kobe at everything. The argument was even dead before Lebron's latest championship heroics.

I don't understand why we're having Lebron vs Kobe discussions. It's like having a Kareem vs David Robinson discussion.

Its
not
close
kobe goat #5
lebron goat #10
it's reasonably close

[34-24 Footwork]

Lebron is about to pass Kobe in the all time scoring list in playoffs in like 5 postseasons less.

Lebron is literally better than Kobe at everything. The argument was even dead before Lebron's latest championship heroics.

I don't understand why we're having Lebron vs Kobe discussions. It's like having a Kareem vs David Robinson discussion.

Its
not
close

Lmao. Eastern conference playoff points.

100 points in the eastern conference is like equivalent to about 30 points on the western conference.

Needs to be graded on a scale, to some degree. Imagine Westbrook, Curry, KD playing in that shitty conference for 13 years

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

"Post prime Kobe's stats from when he was was the go to man"
I posted FGA to prove to you that playing with Shaq didn't stunt his scoring, he still had the exact same amount of attempts.
I also used Kyrie as a clear example as to how playing next to a dominant offensive player should boost your efficiency and help your scoring.
Did you really just say that a teammate getting tripled didn't help his scoring? How stupid are you?

Are you trolling right now? Just an honest question because theres legit no way anybody can be this unaware.

For the nth time, I have stated why FGA are not a stat you can use so black and white. It provides no context to scoring, epecially with what I mentioned above.

How aren't you grasping this?

[/quote]And from that 2006-2010 period when Lebron "monopolized" the ball he took the same amount of FGA as 2000-04 and 2008-2010 Kobe, so there's goes that bullshit.[/quote]

Once again, irrelevant.

Think of another rebuttal, bird brain.

[knicksman]

Are you trolling right now? Just an honest question because theres legit no way anybody can be this unaware.

For the nth time, I have stated why FGA are not a stat you can use so black and white. It provides no context to scoring, epecially with what I mentioned above.

How aren't you grasping this?

And from that 2006-2010 period when Lebron "monopolized" the ball he took the same amount of FGA as 2000-04 and 2008-2010 Kobe, so there's goes that bullshit.

Once again, irrelevant.

Think of another rebuttal, bird brain.

Bankai and most bran stans arent trolls. They are just that dumb

[34-24 Footwork]

"We shouldnt even be comparing Kobe and Bron. Lebron is way better".

- Sincerely,

Your enraged bran stan 20min after making a thread comparing the two players for the 3rd time in 5 days.

[knicksman]

Using bran stans logic, wilt>jordan. Thats all you need to know on how dumb they are

[scuzzy]

Time to start comparing Kobe to guys like Pierce and Drextler (rightful tiers)

[AirBonner]

Time to start comparing Kobe to guys like Pierce and Drextler (rightful tiers)
This. Pierce would have a similar career on arguably better efficiency had he been in Kobe's position.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lmao. Eastern conference playoff points.

100 points in the eastern conference is like equivalent to about 30 points on the western conference.

Needs to be graded on a scale, to some degree. Imagine Westbrook, Curry, KD playing in that shitty conference for 13 years

The same conference Kobe averages 25 ppg on 41% against in the Finals

[TommyGriffin]

Are you trolling right now? Just an honest question because theres legit no way anybody can be this unaware.

For the nth time, I have stated why FGA are not a stat you can use so black and white. It provides no context to scoring, epecially with what I mentioned above.

How aren't you grasping this?

And from that 2006-2010 period when Lebron "monopolized" the ball he took the same amount of FGA as 2000-04 and 2008-2010 Kobe, so there's goes that bullshit.[/quote]

Once again, irrelevant.

Think of another rebuttal, bird brain.[/QUOTE]


You are talking to a guy who tried to tell everyone that Derek Fisher > Kobe Bryant because he had a higher Ortg. He is a troll.

[ILLsmak]

Lebron is about to pass Kobe in the all time scoring list in playoffs in like 5 postseasons less.

Lebron is literally better than Kobe at everything. The argument was even dead before Lebron's latest championship heroics.

I don't understand why we're having Lebron vs Kobe discussions. It's like having a Kareem vs David Robinson discussion.

Its
not
close

Bron is better than Kobe, but I don't agree it's a done deal when it comes to arguing Bron being a better scorer than Kobe.

Why does Bron have to be better than Kobe at literally everything, in your mind? I can't think of any all time great (top 10, fringe top 10) that is better than another at literally everything. Feel free to help me out.

-Smak

[34-24 Footwork]

The same conference Kobe averages 25 ppg on 41% against in the Finals


He deserves a break after grueling through the previous series. Kobe playing below his standards and STILL WINNING comfortably after putting up MEGA performances in the previous rounds doesnt do well for your argument, broski.

Next.

[Bankaii]

I don't have an actual retort to your facts so I'll just resort to deflection and ad homs.
Thats all you had to say from the beginning, bud.
Next time try to have ANY evidence to support your claim.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thats all you had to say from the beginning, bud.
Next time try to have ANY evidence to support your claim.

You're just repeating the same tired argument I've already debunked EONS ago.

At least be original, kiddo.

[RRR3]

Kobe isn't clearly a better scorer than LeBron, or even better at all necessarily. What Kobe is clearly better at is ISOLATION SCORING. But, (at least assuming they're being guarded by their position) Chris Paul is a better isolation scorer than LeBron as well, and I can't think of anyone who would call CP3 a better scorer than LBJ. LeBron, with his insane athleticism, is absolutely lethal on pick and rolls and (especially) in transition. His ISO game has gone up and down over the years, because he's an inconsistent shooter who at times has been downright bad (other times he's been pretty good to be fair). Regardless, LeBron often will score just as much as Kobe on higher FG%. I'm definitely taking Kobe if I need someone to score on an ISO. No doubt. But LeBron generally scores as much or more on higher efficiency, so if I want a pretty-much guaranteed 25+ points on good efficiency, LeBron is the guy who will probably get you this stat line more consistently.


Edit: LeBron also doesn't take half as many idiotic shots as Kobe does. Kobe could and should have been more efficient than he was, although he was on the higher end for ball-dominant perimeter scorers in terms of efficiency during his prime.

[NBAGOAT]

Kobe isn't clearly a better scorer than LeBron, or even better at all necessarily. What Kobe is clearly better at is ISOLATION SCORING. But, (at least assuming they're being guarded by their position) Chris Paul is a better isolation scorer than LeBron as well, and I can't think of anyone who would call CP3 a better scorer than LBJ. LeBron, with his insane athleticism, is absolutely lethal on pick and rolls and (especially) in transition. His ISO game has gone up and down over the years, because he's an inconsistent shooter who at times has been downright bad (other times he's been pretty good to be fair). Regardless, LeBron often will score just as much as Kobe on higher FG%. I'm definitely taking Kobe if I need someone to score on an ISO. No doubt. But LeBron generally scores as much or more on higher efficiency, so if I want a pretty-much guaranteed 25+ points on good efficiency, LeBron is the guy who will probably get you this stat line more consistently.


Edit: LeBron also doesn't take half as many idiotic shots as Kobe does. Kobe could and should have been more efficient than he was, although he was on the higher end for ball-dominant perimeter scorers in terms of efficiency during his prime.

to add on, i say dirk might be the best iso scorer because he's one of the GOAT outside scorers (midrange mostly) and he's a mismatch because of his height. Few people here consider him top 3 even as a scorer of this era partly because getting to the rim is still really important which he doesn't do much.

[Bankaii]

You're just repeating the same tired argument I've already debunked EONS ago.

At least be original, kiddo.
You've debunked it yet not once in this thread have you made an insightful, objective proof of your claim.
Ok, bud.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You've debunked it yet not once in this thread have you made an insightful, objective proof of your claim.
Ok, bud.

Cool story, but you've still yet to rebut or counter anything I've posted other than repeating "mah FGA".

Unfortunately that isn't an argument. Nor is it grounds for debate.

[Hey Yo]

Lmao. Eastern conference playoff points.

100 points in the eastern conference is like equivalent to about 30 points on the western conference.

Needs to be graded on a scale, to some degree. Imagine Westbrook, Curry, KD playing in that shitty conference for 13 years
All 3 of those players got shit on in the Finals by LeBron.


0-22

[RRR3]

He deserves a break after grueling through the previous series. Kobe playing below his standards and STILL WINNING comfortably after putting up MEGA performances in the previous rounds doesnt do well for your argument, broski.

Next.
What, playing the "terrible east" enough of a break for poor Kobe? :(

[aj1987]

So LeBron makes the correct basketball play and the possession ends up with a wide open jumper vs Kobe shooting 18% or whatever on horrifying shot selection.

And you actually believe that is an argument FOR Kobe. THAT is the fundamental difference between the two players/fans.
Exactly! Whenever there are stats in favor (they rarely ever are), Kobe turds literally jizz their pants. When the numbers are in LeBron's favor, they completely dismiss them. It's actually quite hilarious watching Kobe stans completely dismiss stats. People are acting like stats are opinions and anyone can change them. I guess that's the only argument you can have when you're comparing a top tier player like LeBron to a 3rd tier player like Kobe.

tpols, the troll, brought up the '08 Olympics. Only ONE game came down to the wire and that was the Finals against Spain. There was no late game "heroics" or whatever in any of the other games. Even in that game, Wade was clearly better than Kobe and dude was the best player on Team USA. LeBron was the second best player on the team.

I mean, LeBron has more PO game winners than Kobe, but these deluded idiots want to believe that shooting a contested fadeaway and making it like 20% of the time, is better than taking a better % shot. :oldlol:

The other Kobe stans who said 100 points in the EC is like 30 in the WC? Dude, your idol is quite easily the WORST Finals performer in the top 10. You know, the Finals in which he plays EC team. Since you also can't seem to understand simple numbers, I'll post it again and try to explain.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 5
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 8
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 40
Kobe - 37

LeBron in the finals:

https://s32.postimg.org/hx7i4jk11/lbjfinals.jpg

Kobe in the Finals:

https://s31.postimg.org/sx3tdb1kr/kobefinals.jpg


Those are Finals numbers. Kobe plays the "weak" East and LeBron plays the "powerhouse" West. LeBron in a landslide.

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Context? LeBron scored those 5 40pt games against a 67 win and a 73 win GSW team. Dude has more 40 point games in 3 days than Kobe did in his entire 20 season career.

[TommyGriffin]

LeBron played his entire career under a different set of rules than Kobe did.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

[Nash]

Bron is better than Kobe, but I don't agree it's a done deal when it comes to arguing Bron being a better scorer than Kobe.

Why does Bron have to be better than Kobe at literally everything, in your mind? I can't think of any all time great (top 10, fringe top 10) that is better than another at literally everything. Feel free to help me out.

-Smak
Because Lebron is one of those guys that plays against the best team in regular season history and leads the series during the finals in every damn category. He's that complete and much of a beast.

Tell me something Kobe is better at, and please bring facts that prove it as well.

Maybe FT's?

[egokiller]

Everything that lebron has ever done has been accomplished in the weak east, except for 3 finals wins.

Kobe as the 1st or 2nd option has come out ahead 5 times in the finals.

What hurts Lebron's argument is:

Historically weak east
Colluding on super teams

[Mr Feeny]

Everything that lebron has ever done has been accomplished in the weak east, except for 3 finals wins.

Kobe as the 1st or 2nd option has come out ahead 5 times in the finals.

What hurts Lebron's argument is:

Historically weak east
Colluding on super teams

Kobe is less efficient against the "weak east in the regular season and I will woeful in finals, averaging 40%fg:applause:

Meanwhile king lethick averages 27.5 PPG, 10 rpg, 7.5 apg against the west:roll: ]

[Deuce Bigalow]

Most 60 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 32
2. Kobe - 6
3. Baylor - 5
4. MJ - 4
T5. 18 players (inc. LBJ) - 1

Most 50 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 118
2. MJ - 31
3. Kobe - 25
4. Baylor - 14
5. Barry - 13

Most 40 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 271
2. MJ - 173
3. Kobe - 122
4. Baylor - 88
5. AI - 79

Highest scoring seasons in NBA history
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72

[Mr Feeny]

Most 60 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 32
2. Kobe - 6
3. Baylor - 5
4. MJ - 4
T5. 18 players (inc. LBJ) - 1

Most 50 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 118
2. MJ - 31
3. Kobe - 25
4. Baylor - 14
5. Barry - 13

Most 40 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 271
2. MJ - 173
3. Kobe - 122
4. Baylor - 88
5. AI - 79

Highest scoring seasons in NBA history
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72

How about the playoffs? :lebronamazed:


LeBron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years:lol

[Mr Feeny]

Nobody responded?

Do you know that Lebron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years? :eek:

[Trollsmasher]

Nobody responded?

Do you know that Lebron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years? :eek:
wow!

[Kenomax]

Nobody responded?

Do you know that Lebron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years? :eek:

Kobe fans don't like facts like that. They are very quiet! :banghead:

:hammertime: :hammertime:

[knicksman]

You know youre a loser if you settle for lebron rings. Its like settling for prostitutes coz you cant get any

[AirBonner]

You know youre a loser if you settle for lebron rings. Its like settling for prostitutes coz you cant get any
Lebron's career is better then the entire knicks franchise :eek:

[GimmeThat]

You know youre a loser if you settle for lebron rings. Its like settling for prostitutes coz you cant get any

you should also elaborate on how someone could settle for being homeless.

[SouBeachTalents]

Most 60 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 32
2. Kobe - 6
3. Baylor - 5
4. MJ - 4
T5. 18 players (inc. LBJ) - 1

Most 50 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 118
2. MJ - 31
3. Kobe - 25
4. Baylor - 14
5. Barry - 13

Most 40 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 271
2. MJ - 173
3. Kobe - 122
4. Baylor - 88
5. AI - 79

Highest scoring seasons in NBA history
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72

All regular season. Where would he rank on these lists in terms of the postseason?

[SwayDizzle]

Most 60 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 32
2. Kobe - 6
3. Baylor - 5
4. MJ - 4
T5. 18 players (inc. LBJ) - 1

Most 50 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 118
2. MJ - 31
3. Kobe - 25
4. Baylor - 14
5. Barry - 13

Most 40 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 271
2. MJ - 173
3. Kobe - 122
4. Baylor - 88
5. AI - 79

Highest scoring seasons in NBA history
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72
damn :bowdown:
this man can flat out ball

[Cold soul]

Most 60 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 32
2. Kobe - 6
3. Baylor - 5
4. MJ - 4
T5. 18 players (inc. LBJ) - 1

Most 50 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 118
2. MJ - 31
3. Kobe - 25
4. Baylor - 14
5. Barry - 13

Most 40 point games in NBA history
1. Wilt - 271
2. MJ - 173
3. Kobe - 122
4. Baylor - 88
5. AI - 79

Highest scoring seasons in NBA history
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72


Damn straight up slayed Kobe haters with one post.

[scuzzy]

Kobe stans getting punked left n right in this thread


Every stat they use just looks desperate


For example, the above few posts: Using a few high scoring games is better than an overall higher career average :lol


Pa

The

Tic

[IllegalD]

Kobe stans getting punked left n right in this thread


Every stat they use just looks desperate


For example, the above few posts: Using a few high scoring games is better than an overall higher career average :lol


Pa

The

Tic

Not as PA THE TIC as a Wichita inbred 20 year old with no HS diploma who started stanning LeBron after he was mindraped by him in the 2012 Finals and had his favorite team (Thunder) buttraped. Did I mention he's afraid of black guys stuffing him into his locker room?

:lol :roll: :banana:

[TommyGriffin]

Not as PA THE TIC as a Wichita inbred 20 year old with no HS diploma who started stanning LeBron after he was mindraped by him in the 2012 Finals and had his favorite team (Thunder) buttraped. Did I mention he's afraid of black guys stuffing him into his locker room?

:lol :roll: :banana:
Isn't his Mom really fat?

[scuzzy]

Not as PA THE TIC as a Wichita inbred 20 year old with no HS diploma who started stanning LeBron after he was mindraped by him in the 2012 Finals and had his favorite team (Thunder) buttraped. Did I mention he's afraid of black guys stuffing him into his locker room?
a:
Agreed that would be pathetic

Along side selling fish out of your moms chevy nova

Hows that going btw?

:yaohappy: :djparty: :roll: :roll:

[Big164]

50 point games (Playoffs)
Michael Jordan 8
Wilt Chamberlain 4
Allen Iverson 3
Jerry West 2
Ray Allen 1
Lebron 0

[Screamin A Smit]

Agreed that would be pathetic

Along side selling fish out of your moms chevy nova

Hows that going btw?

:yaohappy: :djparty: :roll: :roll:

:roll:

:hammertime:

[knicksman]

Lebron's career is better then the entire knicks franchise :eek:


Bro you are cheap which is a sign of a loser. Theres a reason why lebron23, dubeta, jt123 are on your fam. Birds of the same feathers flock together

[Screamin A Smit]

In the end, only losers respect knicksman