Show me a season where Lebron's 2nd option wasn't a current or former all-star

[3ball]

.
I'll wait..

By virtue of being all-stars, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Mo Williams were considered top 3 players at their position in the conference.. Otoh, before 1990, Jordan's 2nd option wasn't anywhere NEAR a top 3 player at their position, so his supporting players were weaker relative to their competition than Lebron's.. MJ's weaker supporting cast is why his first 3 rings required 30% more (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12602777&postcount=36) PPG than Lebron's 3 rings, with equal assists.

In addition to a weaker supporting cast, Jordan also faced superior competition, since his rings required him to defeat TWICE (https://s12.postimg.io/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg) the number of 50-win teams as Lebron in less games (179 playoff games to Lebron's 199)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stronger cast and weaker competition allowed him to make the 2007 Finals by averaging only 25 ppg on 41% in ECSF, and 26 ppg on 45% in ECF - those stats would be among the worst of Jordan's career and wouldn't be enough to carry the Bulls out of the first round, let alone to the Finals.

[Screamin A Smit]

LeBron in 2016 and Jordan in 1986 both had 0 all-star teammates.



The difference?



LeBron - Championship over 73 win team



Jordan - Swept in the 1st round


:lebronamazed: :banana:

[Screamin A Smit]

3ball, did Lebron have a Current all-star on his roster this season? :banana:

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan held back BJ Armstrong

[Real14]

OP won again. Accept your defeat Bron Stans:lol

[TheWinningFam]

Show me a season where jordan won more than 1 playoff game without pippen.

Oh wait. :lebronamazed:

[SouBeachTalents]

OP won again. Accept your defeat Bron Stans:lol

And accept LeBron's won more titles in 5 seasons than the Knicks have in 70

[TheWinningFam]

And accept LeBron's won more titles in 5 seasons than the Knicks have in 70
https://66.media.tumblr.com/443ecb2831a91185f4ac847e0cf630b3/tumblr_o914oyQR6p1te2817o1_400.gif

[Sarcastic]

And accept LeBron's won more titles in 5 seasons than the Knicks have in 70


Lebron played more than 5 seasons though. Stop cherry picking.

[TheWinningFam]

Lebron played more than 5 seasons though. Stop cherry picking.
Lebron has done more in the playoffs in 13 years than the knicks have in 70.

Not much better :roll:

[iamgine]

Here we're comparing Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas with HOF Scottie Pippen. Hey lets compare Mike Brown with Phil Jackson too!

[GimmeThat]

show me an argument that Lebron didn't enter the league when he was just out of high school

by entering the league just out of high school he was able to guarantee himself to be even younger than the same player in his draft class

by having to go through 3 years of college before going professional, we prove that Jordan didn't treat basketball just as a job

show me an argument as to why if anyone wants to be the greatest ever wouldn't go pro the very second they are allowed to

just show me

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan wasn't good enough to come straight out of high school like bron did. Coming straight out of high school he was winning playoff series and was in the finals ahead of schedule, Otoh jordan was getting spanked in the first round every year before getting bailed out by pippen and jackson.

[egokiller]

Jordan with less help that Lebron had didn't even allow game 7's to take place. He didn't know how to allow a game 7. He also didn't know how to lose in the finals. Never mention lebron in the same breath as MJ. MJ was worlds better at basketball.

[Horatio33]

Didn't Jordan have multiple all star and scoring champion George Gervin on his team his rookie year and won 38 games and lost in the first round?

[egokiller]

Jordan wasn't good enough to come straight out of high school like bron did. Coming straight out of high school he was winning playoff series and was in the finals ahead of schedule, Otoh jordan was getting spanked in the first round every year before getting bailed out by pippen and jackson.

Which is why Jordan's story is GOAT. He didn't have the natural talent out of high school like Lebron did so he worked very hard at becoming the greatest to ever play the game. All this does is make players like Lebron and Kobe look bad because they were better than MJ when they were younger. Once MJ learned how to win, he showed that he would win consistently and never fail. 6/6 with 6 FMVP and never a game 7. If Lebron was half the player MJ was, he would have been able to have his team built around him like MJ did. MJ didn't leave to join Magic or Bird like Lebron left to join Wade, Bosh or Kyrie because MJ is not a bitch like Lebron. How many times does the same history lesson need to be given?

[sdot_thadon]

Didn't Jordan have multiple all star and scoring champion George Gervin on his team his rookie year and won 38 games and lost in the first round?
:wtf: slug logic smashed to pieces yet again. 3ball gonna need some help holding all these L's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade wasn't just an all star. He was an MVP caliber player in 2006, and 2009 - 2011.

[Smoke117]

Wade wasn't just an all star. He was an MVP caliber player in 2006-2007, and 2009 - 2011.

There...that's better.

[SamuraiSWISH]

There...that's better.
True.

But people don't remember him before his numbers dipped after the shoulder injury, and a lackluster playoff showing vs hometown in the first round upset. Prior to injury he was easily IMO the best player in the league.

People don't remember Flash putting up 28/8/8 ... stealing and blocking shots left and right. With Shaq on the sidelines. He was MVP before that game in Houston.

Then Kobe.

Then LeBron.

Then Duncan.

Then Dirk.

[CTbasketball92]

@3Ball - virtually any team Peak LeBron joins is winning 50+ games. He's a top 3 player ever. he's not better than MJ, but he's a GOAT.

[Dragonyeuw]

True.

But people don't remember him before his numbers dipped after the shoulder injury, and a lackluster playoff showing vs hometown in the first round upset. Prior to injury he was easily IMO the best player in the league.

People don't remember Flash putting up 28/8/8 ... stealing and blocking shots left and right. With Shaq on the sidelines. He was MVP before that game in Houston.

Then Kobe.

Then LeBron.

Then Duncan.

Then Dirk.

I remember 2007 well( pre shoulder-injury). Was basically a preview of the 2009 season. A healthy Wade between 2007 and 2010 is giving you 28-30ppg, 7-8apg, 6-7rpg on 49% shooting.

[TheWinningFam]

Which is why Jordan's story is GOAT. He didn't have the natural talent out of high school like Lebron did so he worked very hard at becoming the greatest to ever play the game. All this does is make players like Lebron and Kobe look bad because they were better than MJ when they were younger. Once MJ learned how to win, he showed that he would win consistently and never fail. 6/6 with 6 FMVP and never a game 7. If Lebron was half the player MJ was, he would have been able to have his team built around him like MJ did. MJ didn't leave to join Magic or Bird like Lebron left to join Wade, Bosh or Kyrie because MJ is not a bitch like Lebron. How many times does the same history lesson need to be given?
Think im bout to read that bullshit wall of text on a sunday http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mjlol.png

If it was the other way around you would be saying jordan is goat because he was always better, just stfu.

[KirbyPls]

I remember 2007 well( pre shoulder-injury). Was basically a preview of the 2009 season. A healthy Wade between 2007 and 2010 is giving you 28-30ppg, 7-8apg, 6-7rpg on 49% shooting.

So basically Lebron's career averages. :applause:

[SamuraiSWISH]

So basically Lebron's career averages. :applause:
Yes. LeBron needed someone putting up 28/8/8 with very good defense to get over the hump and teach him how to win.

[Cali Syndicate]

Didn't Jordan have multiple all star and scoring champion George Gervin on his team his rookie year and won 38 games and lost in the first round?

gervin was on the 86 team, season mj fractured his foot. bulls won 30 games, then got dropped by the celtics. but not before mj dropped 49points in game 1, and 63 in game 2 (50 in regulation).

[Cali Syndicate]

So basically Lebron's career averages. :applause:

this reads as if your saying this is a bad thing. wade before his shoulder injury was a top tier player, and came back one as well. he was a beast on the 08 usa team.

[I<3NBA]

former all-star? oh, so you mean they were washed up then?

[KirbyPls]

Yes. LeBron needed someone putting up 28/8/8 with very good defense to get over the hump and teach him how to win.

So in 2012, Wade put up 28-8-8? Wade won the 2006 title with a 2009 Cavs-type roster? Wade was perhaps the best player in the game pre-injury in 2007, and he's a hell of a player (and necessary for the 2012 and 2013 titles,(I love Wade) but even at his apex his numbers and impact are about what James has done season-in and season-out for 7-plus years. Do you admit Phil Jackson and Pippen taught MJ to win, since he didn't do shit without either?

[Smoke117]

So in 2012, Wade put up 28-8-8? Wade won the 2006 title with a 2009 Cavs-type roster? Wade was perhaps the best player in the game pre-injury in 2007, and he's a hell of a player (and necessary for the 2012 and 2013 titles,(I love Wade) but even at his apex his numbers and impact are about what James has done season-in and season-out for 7-plus years. Do you admit Phil Jackson and Pippen taught MJ to win, since he didn't do shit without either?

James has played great, consistent defense these past 7 years? **** outtta here with that nonsense.

[KirbyPls]

James has played great, consistent defense these past 7 years? **** outtta here with that nonsense.

Apex-Wade level defense every game? No. Consistently great defense in the playoffs? Yes. Also, I'm not saying Lebron's career averages > Peak Wade, just that Swish's Jordan-agenda shade at Lebron obscures the fact that LBJ averages ~27-7-7 for his career, which is comparable to 28-8-8.

If he stayed healthy, Wade would be a top 10-13 player ever IMO, but I think James at his best is better.

[Smoke117]

Apex-Wade level defense every game? No. Consistently great defense in the playoffs? Yes. Also, I'm not saying Lebron's career averages > Peak Wade, just that Swish's Jordan-agenda shade at Lebron obscures the fact that LBJ averages ~27-7-7 for his career, which is comparable to 28-8-8.

If he stayed healthy, Wade would be a top 10-13 player ever IMO, but I think James at his best is better.

https://media.tenor.co/images/5d36ce0ed4885aac7b47cdae770fa137/raw

If wade stayed healthy there wouldn't be all this nonsense talk about Kobe...because nobody would care because we'd all have Wade greater.

[retaxis]

Show me a season where xyz 2nd option wasn't a current or former all-star

Every star has a 2nd option who was a current or former all star.

[Dragonyeuw]

So basically Lebron's career averages. :applause:

Basically it shows that prime Wade was capable of near Lebron-like numbers but in a much smaller body, less physical advantages( though Wade was obviously no athletic slouch) and freakish ability to stay healthy over 13 years.

So yes, that does deserve applause. :applause:

[KirbyPls]

https://media.tenor.co/images/5d36ce0ed4885aac7b47cdae770fa137/raw

If wade stayed healthy there wouldn't be all this nonsense talk about Kobe...because nobody would care because we'd all have Wade greater.

Agree.

[KirbyPls]

Basically it shows that prime Wade was capable of near Lebron-like numbers but in a much smaller body, less physical advantages( though Wade was obviously no athletic slouch) and freakish ability to stay healthy over 13 years.

So yes, that does deserve applause. :applause:

Wade is a monster, and I won't denigrate him to prop up Lebron. :cheers:

[Dragonyeuw]

Wade is a monster, and I won't denigrate him to prop up Lebron. :cheers:

:applause: Well done. Way too much of that shit on this forum. It's possible to be a fan(or stan) without pissing on other greats.

[Dray n Klay]

:applause: Well done. Way too much of that shit on this forum. It's possible to be a fan(or stan) without pissing on other greats.

Exactly

[egokiller]

If wade stayed healthy there wouldn't be all this nonsense talk about Kobe...because nobody would care because we'd all have Wade greater.

But if that was the case that would mean that Lebron colluded with a version of Wade that was even better than Kobe! If you think people think of him as a ring chaser now, imagine what people would think if he teamed up with a Kobesque version of Wade?! :roll:

[KirbyPls]

But if that was the case that would mean that Lebron colluded with a version of Wade that was even better than Kobe! If you think people think of him as a ring chaser now, imagine what people would think if he teamed up with a Kobesque version of Wade?! :roll:

Imagine if Kobe had played 8 years with the MDE in his prime? :eek: