How Good is Ben Simmons?

[BigKAT]

Honesty for a moment,

I have never watched him play.
Not in college, not in the combine or anything.

All I know is stats I heard and experts talk about him.
So that means nothing.

I'm really curious about the guy and would appreciate it if someone who watched him could share some insight.

You think this guy is overhyped?
Is he going to be an All-star?
Is he really a Mini-lebron or is this just overselling?

[Kool Boy]

16/8/5 Scottie Pippen like player with less of a jumper but more length.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He'll be to LeBron what Kobe was to Big Mike.

[plowking]

How is he a mini Lebron? Dude makes Bron look small.

Dude will be what Grant Hill was, and more. Better passer, better rebounder and better defender coming into the league. Needs to work on his scoring arsenal.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Hill was a better shooter, and scorer. Clearly. And I have doubts he will ever be the defender that Grant eventually became.

Also Hill and Bron are roughly the same height.

Simmons is like 6'10 / 6'11. Clearly inspired game like LeBron's ... just not near as quick, explosive or athletic.

And unimaginable ... but a BY FAR worse jumper than even HS to Pro, 18 year old LeBron.

He's mini LeBron in terms of game. Not physical stature. I thought OP's message was obvious.

[TemporaMutantur]

The kid plays with a lot of finesse and composure. Definitely a high ceiling, but a watered-down less-athletic Lebron at peak wouldn't be surprising.

76ers should be interesting to watch next year.

[G-train]

Simmons has many things to address.

IMO, the biggest flaw is his mind. Very lazy player, doesn't try at all on D, and disengages on offence very easily. AKA weak minded, and to be even a good role player in the NBA you need to be strong minded and focused.
He also tends to sulk when things don't go his way, on the court and off.
And yes I am privy to his off court personality, not the NBA/Nike generated one.

Secondly, its his finishing ability around the basket at NBA level. He is 6'10 with a 6'11 wingspan, and doesn't power up quick enough to finish. Really struggled doing so even against d-leaguers in the summer league.

Thirdly it's his outside shooting, and by outside, I mean outside of 10 feet. Opponents literally stand 5 feet off him, and he is so horrible he still cant hit them, and in the end gives up and doesn't even shoot them. And even visibly starts getting upset about it.

His strengths are his speed for his height, and his passing. His speed should allow him to get some fast break buckets if he is played at the 4.

However his passing often requires him to be handling the ball much of the time, which you actually can't afford him to do, as he turns it over so much.
Even against d-leagues in summer league, he averaged 4 turnovers for his 5.5 assists. As a sidenote, he also shot 36% generally, 0% from 3pt, and 64% from the line in SL.

But if you watch the highlight reels, his passes were phenomenal.
However the rest of the game does not measure up at all currently.

If he corrects some of these issues, he could be a Blake Griffin type. If he doesn't he will be a bust.

[G-train]

How is he a mini Lebron? Dude makes Bron look small.

Dude will be what Grant Hill was, and more. Better passer, better rebounder and better defender coming into the league. Needs to work on his scoring arsenal.

Grant Hill was so much more advanced coming into the NBA.
In EVERY aspect of basketball.

[G-train]

16/8/5 Scottie Pippen like player with less of a jumper but more length.

Pippen is one of the greatest small forwards ever.
Simmons couldn't carry Scotties jock strap into the gym atm.

[RunWithThePack3]

Not a big fan of Simmons.

There is no doubt he's an extremely talented ball player. But you need insane work ethic to be a star in the league, no matter how much natural talent you have (ex. Dwight Howard).

From what I've heard, Simmons is a cocky dude with little work ethic right now.

[plowking]

Grant Hill was so much more advanced coming into the NBA.
In EVERY aspect of basketball.

Wow. Way to throw out a cliche statement that isn't close to being true.

[G0ATbe]

LeBron with better defense.

[G-train]

Wow. Way to throw out a cliche statement that isn't close to being true.

Well I just explained what Simmons was, and I presumed you know how good Hill was. Seems you don't, I was fortunate to have seen his amazing rookie season.
Grant Hill was an elite NBA player straight off the bat.
He was a refined masterpiece of a player, both in terms of all round skills and mentally. He didn't shoot threes, but it was a different NBA back then.

Name me one thing that Simmons does better than Hill as a rookie.
Simmons cant score, defend and his main strength of passing is neutralized by his turnovers. His mentality is also VERY questionable.

You could name passing, and even if I agreed to that (which I don't), he is still no where near Grant Hill overall.

On top of that, Simmons natural quickness to the ball for rebounding is neutralized by his poor effort.

I wouldn't even mention them in the same sentence.

[Smoke117]

Grant Hill was so much more advanced coming into the NBA.
In EVERY aspect of basketball.

Grant Hill is also much quicker and agile than Ben Simmons...it was a dumb comparison from the start.

[G-train]

Grant Hill is also much quicker and agile than Ben Simmons...it was a dumb comparison from the start.

Well that too, Hill was a small forward in the point forward mould, with elite quickness, especially on the drive.

Simmons is clearly a power forward to me.

[FKAri]

He's not Lebron (doesn't seem as passionate)
He's not Grant Hill(doesn't seem as naturally talented)

Maybe Lamar Odom is a closer comparison.

[plowking]

Well I just explained what Simmons was, and I presumed you know how good Hill was. Seems you don't, I was fortunate to have seen his amazing rookie season.
Grant Hill was an elite NBA player straight off the bat.
He was a refined masterpiece of a player, both in terms of all round skills and mentally. He didn't shoot threes, but it was a different NBA back then.

Name me one thing that Simmons does better than Hill as a rookie.
Simmons cant score, defend and his main strength of passing is neutralized by his turnovers. His mentality is also VERY questionable.

You could name passing, and even if I agreed to that (which I don't), he is still no where near Grant Hill overall.

On top of that, Simmons natural quickness to the ball for rebounding is neutralized by his poor effort.

I wouldn't even mention them in the same sentence.

He is a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender and is stronger, and more of an athlete than Hill ever was.

Hill may have more of a refined game in a lot of aspects, but he isn't the talent Simmons is, and it is hilarious you think his passing is somehow negated due to turnovers in a SL pre season where he was clearly just out there playing flashy and putting on a show.

You know who else was poor in the SL just recently? A whole lot of previous ROTY winners.

[G-train]

He is a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender and is stronger, and more of an athlete than Hill ever was.

Hill may have more of a refined game in a lot of aspects, but he isn't the talent Simmons is, and it is hilarious you think his passing is somehow negated due to turnovers in a SL pre season where he was clearly just out there playing flashy and putting on a show.

You know who else was poor in the SL just recently? A whole lot of previous ROTY winners.


He is not a better athlete than Hill, not a better defender. The passing is fairly even, but the fact he turns it over attempting his passes pushes me toward Hill.

Stronger? Sure is, he's a power forward. But Hill is faster and one of the quickest players ever, and a higher leaper. Much more dynamic and explosive athlete.

The fact you brought up defence says to me says who haven't seen Simmons much.

If you watch the whole games and not the nba.com highlights, Simmons wasn't putting on a show. He was downright horrible.



You know who else was poor in the SL just recently? A whole lot of previous ROTY winners.

They weren't as bad as Simmons by any measure.

[Suckafree]

One of the best prospects I've seen.

Sure, attitude and jumpshot are both questionable and valid cause for concern, but those are easily improved. I expect something like 14/7/4 as a rookie. He will have high turnovers and poor percentages, but so do all rookies (Unless your BG or KAT).

I feel like the people who are doubting him have not watched him play. He just has a ridiculously polished skillset and absolutely believe he will turn out better then any other rookie in this draft class.

[plowking]

He is not a better athlete than Hill, not a better defender. The passing is fairly even, but the fact he turns it over attempting his passes pushes me toward Hill.

So him being 6'10, faster than Hill, and clearly a better leaper makes him a worse athlete? :oldlol:
He is definitely a better defender than Hill coming into the league. It isn't a debate. Will he end up as good as Hill later in his career? Probably not, but he definitely is better than rookie Hill.


Stronger? Sure is, he's a power forward. But Hill is faster and one of the quickest players ever, and a higher leaper. Much more dynamic and explosive athlete.

Hill was not faster. Whatever. That cannot be proven by either of us, so I won't even go into it. The higher leaper part is laughable though, but once again, can't be proven, so whatever.


The fact you brought up defence says to me says who haven't seen Simmons much.

I have. I've taken an interest in his game and watch as much as I can. The fact you think Hill was even an average defender coming into the league makes me think you suffered loss of memory in between now and when you watched his rookie season.


If you watch the whole games and not the nba.com highlights, Simmons wasn't putting on a show. He was downright horrible.

He wasn't.



They weren't as bad as Simmons by any measure.

Sure bud. Base it off the limited amount of games he played in the SL itself.
I guess we'll just ignore that the likes of Curry averaged 33%, Rose 29%, and even Durant and Bron shot in the 30-40% range.
But yeah, Simmons was just the worst. :rolleyes:

[Smoke117]

He is a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender and is stronger, and more of an athlete than Hill ever was.

Hill may have more of a refined game in a lot of aspects, but he isn't the talent Simmons is, and it is hilarious you think his passing is somehow negated due to turnovers in a SL pre season where he was clearly just out there playing flashy and putting on a show.

You know who else was poor in the SL just recently? A whole lot of previous ROTY winners.

You got all that from his one year in college, eh? Is this some kind of australian loyalty?...because what a load of horseshit to say this when he hasn't played a single game in the NBA yet.

[G-train]

One of the best prospects I've seen.

Sure, attitude and jumpshot are both questionable and valid cause for concern, but those are easily improved. I expect something like 14/7/4 as a rookie. He will have high turnovers and poor percentages, but so do all rookies (Unless your BG or KAT).

I feel like the people who are doubting him have not watched him play. He just has a ridiculously polished skillset and absolutely believe he will turn out better then any other rookie in this draft class.

I watched him in college and in summer league. Also as a junior in Australia. It's not just my opinion, the doubts I have on him are held by most scouts. Some publicly via the various scouting websites.
It's a poor draft so people were willing t o take a flyer on his natural ability.
Nothing is EASILY improved at an NBA level, and his lack of work ethic makes the weaknesses worse.


One of the best prospects I've seen.


Have you watched the NBA long? What's one of the best? Top 5?

Cos I give you 4 better prospects from the '03 draft alone, 4 from '98, maybe 3-4 from 96... I started watching closely from '93 so there is even more for me.

Simmons floated through college with zero accountability, putting up worthless numbers, and failing when it mattered.

He didn't make the NCAAs, and in the game to make it was horrible and they were flogged. He chose a low pressure college where he had connections, so he could do what he wanted and play how he wanted. He has now signed with 'klutch sports'.

He won't get that in the NBA, cos he simply isn't good enough. He also hugely cracked the sulks for not making Aussie team when he was 17, his whole family had a cry.
Then said he wouldn't be playing this year due to NBA commitments, well I can tell you he wouldn't have made the team anyway as he isn't good enough.

[G-train]

So him being 6'10, faster than Hill, and clearly a better leaper makes him a worse athlete? :oldlol:
He is definitely a better defender than Hill coming into the league. It isn't a debate. Will he end up as good as Hill later in his career? Probably not, but he definitely is better than rookie Hill.



Hill was not faster. Whatever. That cannot be proven by either of us, so I won't even go into it. The higher leaper part is laughable though, but once again, can't be proven, so whatever.



I have. I've taken an interest in his game and watch as much as I can. The fact you think Hill was even an average defender coming into the league makes me think you suffered loss of memory in between now and when you watched his rookie season.



He wasn't.




Sure bud. Base it off the limited amount of games he played in the SL itself.
I guess we'll just ignore that the likes of Curry averaged 33%, Rose 29%, and even Durant and Bron shot in the 30-40% range.
But yeah, Simmons was just the worst. :rolleyes:

I'm factoring in more than shooting %. I completely disagree with the rest. I don't think you watched rookie Hill at all tbh.

[G-train]

Another red flag: Simmons wasn't even going to classes or studying.
He couldn't win the John Wooden award (he wouldn't have anyway), as he didn't meet the minimum 2.0 grade.
He simply doesn't work hard.
He relies on his natural size and athleticism against inferior competition, and shuts down when it gets hard.

[Milbuck]

Arguing that his defense is without debate better than Hill's is pretty laughable considering not only has he not played one second of NBA ball, but he wasn't even a good defender in college.

[Smoke117]

Arguing that his defense is without debate better than Hill's is pretty laughable considering not only has he not played one second of NBA ball, but he wasn't even a good defender in college.

Do you just go around copying my post while you simultaneously insult me? It appears so.

[Ocks]

NO way Simmons is a better athlete than Grant Hill.. Grant had one of the best first steps I've ever seen


#YallMustveForgot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zyVFwvYsu8

[Milbuck]

Do you just go around copying my post while you simultaneously insult me? It appears so.Get over yourself dude, I never read your posts unless you directly quote me.

[Smoke117]

Get over yourself dude, I never read your posts unless you directly quote me.

I literally just choked out loud laughing...you literally were zoning in on me in threads a week or so ago that had nothing to do with you...frankly I haven't responded to a post of yours in months...but you always seem to be there in a popular thread to throw shade my way, no? I'll get over myself when you stop stalking me? Deal?

[Milbuck]

I literally just choked out loud laughing...you literally were zoning in on me in threads a week or so ago that had nothing to do with you...frankly I haven't responded to a post of yours in months...but you always seem to be there in a popular thread to throw shade my way, no? I'll get over myself when you stop stalking me? Deal?
tl;dr

[Smoke117]

tl;dr

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/james-franco-wink.gif

[HarryBergeron]

Simmons has many things to address.

IMO, the biggest flaw is his mind. Very lazy player, doesn't try at all on D, and disengages on offence very easily. AKA weak minded, and to be even a good role player in the NBA you need to be strong minded and focused.
He also tends to sulk when things don't go his way, on the court and off.
And yes I am privy to his off court personality, not the NBA/Nike generated one.

Secondly, its his finishing ability around the basket at NBA level. He is 6'10 with a 6'11 wingspan, and doesn't power up quick enough to finish. Really struggled doing so even against d-leaguers in the summer league.

Thirdly it's his outside shooting, and by outside, I mean outside of 10 feet. Opponents literally stand 5 feet off him, and he is so horrible he still cant hit them, and in the end gives up and doesn't even shoot them. And even visibly starts getting upset about it.

His strengths are his speed for his height, and his passing. His speed should allow him to get some fast break buckets if he is played at the 4.

However his passing often requires him to be handling the ball much of the time, which you actually can't afford him to do, as he turns it over so much.
Even against d-leagues in summer league, he averaged 4 turnovers for his 5.5 assists. As a sidenote, he also shot 36% generally, 0% from 3pt, and 64% from the line in SL.

But if you watch the highlight reels, his passes were phenomenal.
However the rest of the game does not measure up at all currently.

If he corrects some of these issues, he could be a Blake Griffin type. If he doesn't he will be a bust.

This is actually the comparison I prefer. I think his ceiling is BG. Difference is Simmons is more naturally gifted at things Blake had to work really hard on (D and Passing) where as Simmons can play high level D but is often too lazy/sulky w/e to do so whereas Blake's effort has never been in question.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Arguing that his defense is without debate better than Hill's is pretty laughable considering not only has he not played one second of NBA ball, but he wasn't even a good defender in college.
plowing is a dumb loyal Aussie that's all. Saying Simmons is faster, quicker, better leaper and better defender already is just

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Guy never saw college, and prime Hill. Or even Simmons if he's coming to these delusional opinions.

[fourkicks44]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBcTzWNXDc

[BigKAT]

Another red flag: Simmons wasn't even going to classes or studying.
He couldn't win the John Wooden award (he wouldn't have anyway), as he didn't meet the minimum 2.0 grade.
He simply doesn't work hard.
He relies on his natural size and athleticism against inferior competition, and shuts down when it gets hard.

That is actually a serious red flag in my opinion.

Look at Kobe, Jordan and Lebron. At Kareem, Russell and Jerry West.

All very intelligent people, Kareem wrote a few books, Kobe and lebron are elite businessmen and West is one of the greatest basketball minds even off the court (Drafting Kobe among other things, consulting the warriors)

They are all students of the game.
They learn. They study. They hone their skills.

If this guy was too lazy to attend class, then I don't know. I've seen alot of your opinions and it seems attitude might be the biggest problem.

Example for worries about attitude that didn't end up right : Denadre Jordan. I heard the guy dropped to 2nd round just because people thought he was lazy.

Example for attitude that ruined a person's career imo : Dwight Howard.
Perhaps ruined is too strong a word, because that guy was an allstar so many years and 3x defensive player of the year and got to the finals.

But Howard's career is a really big 'What if' when you look at his athletic gifts and scoring/defending prowess.

[Smoke117]

That is actually a serious red flag in my opinion.

Look at Kobe, Jordan and Lebron. At Kareem, Russell and Jerry West.

All very intelligent people, Kareem wrote a few books, Kobe and lebron are elite businessmen and West is one of the greatest basketball minds even off the court (Drafting Kobe among other things, consulting the warriors)

They are all students of the game.
They learn. They study. They hone their skills.

If this guy was too lazy to attend class, then I don't know. I've seen alot of your opinions and it seems attitude might be the biggest problem.

Example for worries about attitude that didn't end up right : Denadre Jordan. I heard the guy dropped to 2nd round just because people thought he was lazy.

Example for attitude that ruined a person's career imo : Dwight Howard.
Perhaps ruined is too strong a word, because that guy was an allstar so many years and 3x defensive player of the year and got to the finals.

But Howard's career is a really big 'What if' when you look at his athletic gifts and scoring/defending prowess.

No...a bad back ruined/changed his career. Nobody was talking shit about Dwight before the 2013 season.

[BigKAT]

No...a bad back ruined/changed his career. Nobody was talking shit about Dwight before the 2013 season.

Would you say his decision to leave Orlando did not affect his career?

A team he grew up with would've been more patient towards his slump then Houston, who just kinda erased him from the offense.

Would you say that if he stayed in Orlando and reloaded there he would still be an All-star right now? Or perhaps they would've gotten him a star and he would contend?

To me his worse decision was forcing his way out of Orlando in a trade.

But yeah, no doubt that the bad back was a major reason for his decline. And you are correct about people having short memory span.

[Smoke117]

Would you say his decision to leave Orlando did not affect his career?

A team he grew up with would've been more patient towards his slump then Houston, who just kinda erased him from the offense.

Would you say that if he stayed in Orlando and reloaded there he would still be an All-star right now? Or perhaps they would've gotten him a star and he would contend?

To me his worse decision was forcing his way out of Orlando in a trade.

But yeah, no doubt that the bad back was a major reason for his decline. And you are correct about people having short memory span.

If Dwight was still the same player on the Magic as he was on the Lakers and Houston after his back surgery nobody would give a shit how he left the Magic...he obviously hasn't been the same dominant player since the back surgery though. These kobe stan morons talk shit nonstop when the guy actually came back EARLY from back surgery in 2013...he wasn't supposed to be playing till december.

Also...he wasn't slumping this season...he just wasn't a part of the offense.

[tourettes3]

Grant Hill was so much more advanced coming into the NBA.
In EVERY aspect of basketball.

Grant hill had 4 years in college to advance his skills before the NBA, compared to Simmons one and only year.

So Hill's first year would be season number 5 in solid competition ball to Simmons 2.

[PP34Deuce]

First off, Dwight Howard is a bad example. Dwight knows about the history of big men and was a hard worker. He was more a hard worker for his body than his game, but he has a work ethic.

Simmons is an enigma because he has the build to be an ultimate player. Realistically I see...

Floor- Productive Boris Diaw. A guy that can always give you 12-13 PPG with 7 rebounds and 7-8 assists.

or most likely ceiling- Lamar Odom , 16-9-7-8 assists with versatility defensively and able to take advantage of mis matches.

I don't see Hill or Bron. Those guys could see the floor and easily score 25. He's not that natural of a scorer.

[plowking]

plowing is a dumb loyal Aussie that's all. Saying Simmons is faster, quicker, better leaper and better defender already is just

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Guy never saw college, and prime Hill. Or even Simmons if he's coming to these delusional opinions.

Just remember swish... I'm better at life than you are.

Of course I'm just a loyal Aussie. One that rags on players like Delly and Exum. But you know it all brah.

[Lebron23]

I'll judge him after he plays 2 full seasons in the NBA. I only watched him in the NBA Summer League.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just remember swish... I'm better at life than you are.
I'm sure. You can say that you're a millionaire on here, and I would have to take you at your word.

If your video with poido is any indication, you're certainly not athletic or better at basketball.

[plowking]

I'm sure. You can say that you're a millionaire on here, and I would have to take you at your word.

If your video with poido is any indication, you're certainly not athletic or better at basketball.

I don't have any reason to lie. Nor do I care to on a forum. I share what I want.

I'm not athletic? Ok. Doesn't bother me. I'm most certainly more athletic than you are. I've posted me dunking on here, and yet you haven't, nor can you dunk. Yet I'm less athletic than you are? :oldlol:


Who said I'm a millionaire? Not yet at least. I do well for myself though.

[G-train]

Grant hill had 4 years in college to advance his skills before the NBA, compared to Simmons one and only year.

So Hill's first year would be season number 5 in solid competition ball to Simmons 2.

Oh really? smh.
I'm not the one saying he will be better than Hill.

[tourettes3]

Oh really? smh.
I'm not the one saying he will be better than Hill.

Ah no worries mate. I interpreted your post in a different way 👊🏼