Who was better in 2011: Dwight Howard or Derrick Rose?

[Smoke117]

Dwight Howard. He was a legit go-to scorer this season putting up 23ppg while being a world-class rebounder (14rpg) and the best defensive player in the world. (he had the magic at 3rd in defense that year...look at that roster of black holes defensively) To me...that I even have to ask this question is a joke, but I'm curious if other people agree with swish that Rose was better than Howard.

[SouBeachTalents]

Top 4 that year imo

Dirk
Dwight
LeBron
Wade

[warriorfan]

Dwight Howard easily. He was the best defensive player in the league while providing solid contribution on the offensive side.

[G-train]

The Bulls going 62-20 and Rose's dynamic style definitely swayed the voters.
He almost won unanimously too, 113 out of 120 first place. smh

[warriorfan]

In all due respect to Rose he really started bringing it that season. I was on the fence about him but seeing how he took over games in the 2011 playoffs I was convinced he was legit and the next big thing. It's a shame that injuries shorty after robbed him of what he could of been.

[JT123]

One guy lead his team to the ECF, the other lost in the first round to the mighty Hawks.
Gee, I wonder...:durantunimpressed:

[Smoke117]

Did somebody hack curryfan's account? These are actually reasonable opinions and not just stupid bullshit...and that is very suspicious since he normally has the IQ of an eggplant.

[Smoke117]

One guy lead his team to the ECF, the other lost in the first round to the mighty Hawks.
Gee, I wonder...:durantunimpressed:

lol This lebron dick sucker is still sour about how Dwight destroyed bran and the Cavs in 2009.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Its not just the numbers or the wins its the way Derrick Rose was impacting the game. The way he opened up the Bulls offense despite the lack of offensive talent. On the defensive end he was also superb as the Bulls were #1 on defense. He was such a dynamic player he was breaking TV records for Bulls games. In terms on talent he was a way better player than Dwight.

[Jameerthefear]

Dwight. Rose wasn't even a top 5 player that season

[Pointguard]

Just look at the impact they had against Atlanta in the playoffs. Its that simple. I was telling you guys back then that there were serious leadership issues with Howard, after like three years it kind of sunk in. Plus in the last meeting with the Bulls, which was still critical for playoff position Rose outscored Howard in the paint... .

[LilEddyCurry]

Dwight easily. D-Rose was not even a top 5 player in his MVP season..

[Pointguard]

Dwight easily. D-Rose was not even a top 5 player in his MVP season..
Who are your five better players?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just look at the impact they had against Atlanta in the playoffs. Its that simple. I was telling you guys back then that there were serious leadership issues with Howard, after like three years it kind of sunk in. Plus in the last meeting with the Bulls, which was still critical for playoff position Rose outscored Howard in the paint... .
Seriously. Beyond better coaching, but with a similarly talented type of roster Rose led ... scratch that ... WILLED his team to 10 more victories than Fright Coward.

As players that season

1) LeBron
2) Wade
3) Rose
4) Dwight
5) Dirk

HM: Kobe

[StephHamann]

Lebron was way better than Kobe in 2011

[PeroAntic]

DRose was a force of nature never before seen in basketball that season. He was out of this world.

[GimmeThat]

this is probably an attempt at trying to determine how much does winning 73 games in the regular season weigh

not all players are paid to win championships. it's probably more so an agreement between the players and the owner

as to players who don't even care about winning regular season games let alone the championship?

it probably does stunt the growth of younger players

[Dragonyeuw]

Howard was better overall. Not the takeover scoring of Rose but much better two-way anchor overall. Probably the most prolific rebounding/defensive paint presence since prime Ben Wallace, but with 4 times the scoring volume. It's a shame that his career slowly derailed after that year, at 30 he should be enjoying prime years right now.

[Papaya Petee]

Ok, since Smoke wants replies let me try this :cheers:

I believe both players were both extremely valuable in completely different ways.
Rose was the only consistent offense on a Chicago Bulls team that had great defense, rebounding, and high basketball IQ. However, they lacked consistent offense and a closer. Rose at 25 PPG and 8 APG was that person. Back then Rose had a consistent mid-range jump shot, and was unstoppable attacking the rim. I think his shot selection was a little bit over rated, and he took too many 3's for his ability.

However, I believe that Rose's team success was due to defensive dominance of Chicago and Thibs ability to coach and run the team into the ground.

Dwight was a defensive monster who happened to have the most productive season of his career offensively. Dwight was criticized his entire career about not being a consistent offensive player, and this was the season that it was the hardest to criticize him for that. This was also the last year we saw REAL Dwight Howard before his back injuries. He was a fearsome rim protector, and the best re bounder and shot blocker in the game.

It's a toss up for me, but I guess I will go with Rose. Generally the DPOY, rebounding big man wins but this time I will take the PG.
Dwight in the playoffs shown inability to take over an offense, and managed to choke versus the Hawks. It was clear that unless his teammates are hot from 3 point range Dwight is ineffective running a team.

Rose got his shit completely kicked in by Miami, but going against prime LeBron and Wade is no joke. He still led his team to the ECF followed up by some great games versus Indiana. His team won 62 games and he was the MVP, so I give him the edge.

Dirk, Wade, LeBron were still clearly better than those two. Durant and Kobe could be argued, but less of a case.

[Dragonyeuw]

Dwight was a defensive monster who happened to have the most productive season of his career offensively. Dwight was criticized his entire career about not being a consistent offensive player, and this was the season that it was the hardest to criticize him for that. This was also the last year we saw REAL Dwight Howard before his back injuries. He was a fearsome rim protector, and the best re bounder and shot blocker in the game.



I think this was coming right off the summer training with Hakeem, so no doubt that was why you saw marked improvement offensively.

[Doranku]

It's a toss up for me, but I guess I will go with Rose. Generally the DPOY, rebounding big man wins but this time I will take the PG.
Dwight in the playoffs shown inability to take over an offense, and managed to choke versus the Hawks. It was clear that unless his teammates are hot from 3 point range Dwight is ineffective running a team.
.


Rose played incredible against the Hawks, but so did Dwight so I don't think it's necessarily fair to say Dwight choked. The difference was that Rose got solid contributions from Deng and Boozer while Dwight literally got zero production from his supporting cast. I mean, look at the numbers, it's a joke:

Dwight: 27/16/1/1/2 on 63%
Nelson: 13/4/5 on 38%
Hedo: 9/3/4 on 29% (:oldlol:)
JRich: 10/4/2 on 33%

He didn't need them to be hot from 3, he just needed them not to be ice f*cking cold from the entire floor all series long.

[Pointguard]

Rose played incredible against the Hawks, but so did Dwight so I don't think it's necessarily fair to say Dwight choked. The difference was that Rose got solid contributions from Deng and Boozer while Dwight literally got zero production from his supporting cast. I mean, look at the numbers, it's a joke:

Dwight: 27/16/1/1/2 on 63%
Nelson: 13/4/5 on 38%
Hedo: 9/3/4 on 29% (:oldlol:)
JRich: 10/4/2 on 33%

He didn't need them to be hot from 3, he just needed them not to be ice f*cking cold from the entire floor all series long.
DH was the primier big man in the league that year. But he did have a disconnect with his team. Against Atlanta he did have a monster practically 50/20 game in which the Magic lost convincingly. But when DH had that 8/8 game it was the only game in which Atlanta won convincingly. And when his coach presented him times to show leadership, DH didn't step up. This guy had only maybe two or three centers in the league that he really had to guard. When rookie DMC lights up the team for 28 points, DH doesn't step up and say let me guard him. ???? .

He's the reigning defensive player of the year and doesn't say let me guard the rookie at my position. Lebron got mad at the Magic president and told everybody he's coming to town to embarrass him. DH didn't even make a stand. The President of the Magic has to revamp the team as the wussie bunch doesn't have enough heart to make a stand. Then second week in March a critical game against the Bulls and Rose scores more points in the paint than DH. And then gets suspended for the next game. Obviously Rose and Lebron's teammates will repond better to them than Howard's teammates will respond to him.

Rose was the best player in 4th quarters that year. He was the best player against elite teams. He had more team adversity than any of the other players. He had a younger team than the other stars. He flipped more 4th quarter wins than anybody else. His team had more wins than anybody else. If the Bulls were close the team could bet that Rose could out execute the other team and he delivered moreso than any other player. Remind you this was a young team with big injuries and sparse talent and not a consistent shooter.

[warriorfan]

DH was the primier big man in the league that year. But he did have a disconnect with his team. Against Atlanta he did have a monster practically 50/20 game in which the Magic lost convincingly. But when DH had that 8/8 game it was the only game in which Atlanta won convincingly. And when his coach presented him times to show leadership, DH didn't step up. This guy had only maybe two or three centers in the league that he really had to guard. When rookie DMC lights up the team for 28 points, DH doesn't step up and say let me guard him. ???? .

He's the reigning defensive player of the year and doesn't say let me guard the rookie at my position. Lebron got mad at the Magic president and told everybody he's coming to town to embarrass him. DH didn't even make a stand. The President of the Magic has to revamp the team as the wussie bunch doesn't have enough heart to make a stand. Then second week in March a critical game against the Bulls and Rose scores more points in the paint than DH. And then gets suspended for the next game. Obviously Rose and Lebron's teammates will repond better to them than Howard's teammates will respond to him.

Rose was the best player in 4th quarters that year. He was the best player against elite teams. He had more team adversity than any of the other players. He had a younger team than the other stars. He flipped more 4th quarter wins than anybody else. His team had more wins than anybody else. If the Bulls were close the team could bet that Rose could out execute the other team and he delivered moreso than any other player. Remind you this was a young team with big injuries and sparse talent and not a consistent shooter.

Rose had a much better team. Let us not forget Rose shot sub 50% TS in the playoffs. That is pretty amazing it can be so low considering the amount of free throws he took.

[Suguru101]

Who are your five better players?

LeBron

Dwight

Dirk

Wade

Durant

[ArbitraryWater]

Seriously. Beyond better coaching, but with a similarly talented type of roster Rose led ... scratch that ... WILLED his team to 10 more victories than Fright Coward.

As players that season

1) LeBron
2) Wade
3) Rose
4) Dwight
5) Dirk

HM: Kobe

This shit definitely caused the hour long Database breakdown

[nathanjizzle]

for the 2010-11 season. record for games that came down to clutch scenarios.

Derrick Rose
30-10 75%

Dwight Howard
23-15 60.5%

[raprap]

Dwight shouldve won MVP that year

[Thingy]

I would give it to Derrick Rose. If he wanted to win the game, all he had to do was turn on the jets...unless he was playing Lebron. I think people forget just how special that season was for Chicago. Rose was nearly unstoppable.

[nathanjizzle]

I would give it to Derrick Rose. If he wanted to win the game, all he had to do was turn on the jets...unless he was playing Lebron. I think people forget just how special that season was for Chicago. Rose was nearly unstoppable.

only in the playoffs. the bulls that season swepped the heat in the regular season.

[SamuraiSWISH]

This shit definitely caused the hour long Database breakdown
What did you manage to do with yourself in that hour since your 27 posts per day on ISH (about a topic you don't even know well) seems to be your entire existence?

[Pointguard]

Rose had a much better team. Let us not forget Rose shot sub 50% TS in the playoffs. That is pretty amazing it can be so low considering the amount of free throws he took.
If you use TS% to measure PG impact you are using the wrong tool. Overall its one of the worst stats in measuring greatness. Especially, in measuring an aggressive chaos creating PG its totally useless.

DH had a team he took to the conference finals the year before and the finals the year before that. True, DH lost that team near mid season when the President of the team figure the wussies had run their course. Rose had a new young team and lost Noah and Boozer to the tune of 67 games. Everybody in the leauge knew Rose was getting the ball at the end of games and they still had the best record in the league. Especially amazing when you see that Rose did heavy damage without much picks.

[Pointguard]

LeBron

Dwight

Dirk

Wade

Durant
Durant was a joke. All he did was score and he only got one more basket per game while having far less impact. Still til this day he too, has leadership issues. But there is no way would Rose have a player near his equal, and who wins playoff games galore (Westbrook, arguably, has won more playoff games the last three years than Durant), on his team and not have done major damage in the five years following 2011. Durant didn't do anything that year.

[warriorfan]

If you use TS% to measure PG impact you are using the wrong tool. Overall its one of the worst stats in measuring greatness. Especially, in measuring an aggressive chaos creating PG its totally useless.

DH had a team he took to the conference finals the year before and the finals the year before that. True, DH lost that team near mid season when the President of the team figure the wussies had run their course. Rose had a new young team and lost Noah and Boozer to the tune of 67 games. Everybody in the leauge knew Rose was getting the ball at the end of games and they still had the best record in the league. Especially amazing when you see that Rose did heavy damage without much picks.

I would really like an explanation for this. Sounds insanely arbitrary.

Regardless of what you say, if a player is taking 20+ FGA a game, their efficiency is going to be in question, and it is going to be at the top of the list.

Derrick Rose in the playoffs averaged 23.5 FGA per game and had a TS of 49%

49%! That is Nick Young, Jordan Crawford, and ****ing Antoine Walker status

[tpols]

just a quick stat, dwight howard averaged .5 assists per game and had 33 turnovers in 2011 playoffs.. he was an individual force when he was young, but was never a team offensive player.. he lacked serious intuition in that department and has his whole career. very stiff, strength oriented player with little feel for the game on offense. Cant take nothing away from him defensively though

[Papaya Petee]

only in the playoffs. the bulls that season swepped the heat in the regular season.
Only? That is only by far the most important time of the year. The Bulls had HCA, swept the regular season series against the Heat, and won game 1 by 20 points.

..... Then LeBron became Rose's daddy

that is a pretty big deal.

[NumberSix]

Derrick Rose isn't a top 100 player. He'll be the first MVP to not make the HOF.

[nathanjizzle]

Dwight easily. D-Rose was not even a top 5 player in his MVP season..

stupid.

[ScalsFan21]

Dwight was better that year and all the years around it. I'd go as far as saying that despite everything that has gone on surrounding Howard in his career (especially the last 5 years), there has NEVER BEEN a season in which Rose > Howard in terms of positive on-court impact; even last year was debatable af with the Rockets almost missing the playoffs.

[Lebronxrings]

top 5 that year:

Lebron
Dirk
Dwight
Durant
Wade

unfortunately, rose misses the cut. :(

[Pointguard]

I would really like an explanation for this. Sounds insanely arbitrary.

Grab the top ten career TS%. And compare it to any list. Its by far the worst stat for career guys. As I've stated here many times TS% is far inferior to most stats. Even turnovers per game (an aggression stat) is better indicator of HOF potential. Magic is the only top ten GOAT in the top 20 and you guys never ever, talk about Magic in this capacity. I don't know of a stat that has less HOFers on it than TS%.

Jordan isn't below the top 70. Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Robinson, Moses and Duncan all suffered in TS%, vs say Dirk, Kareem and KG who had ok numbers with it.

Jordan isn't top 70 in TS%. Bird is barely top 100. Kobe is barely top 200.


Regardless of what you say, if a player is taking 20+ FGA a game, their efficiency is going to be in question, and it is going to be at the top of the list.

Derrick Rose in the playoffs averaged 23.5 FGA per game and had a TS of 49%

49%! That is Nick Young, Jordan Crawford, and ****ing Antoine Walker status

All players who don't have shooters, floor spreaders, athletes, finishers, co creators all suffer with TS%. Its impossible to win with a great TS% without those elements. When Lebron lost Kyrie his TS% was trash but he nearly went up to 3-1 on the Warriors when he just becomes aggressive.

[nathanjizzle]

top 5 that year:

Lebron
Dirk
Dwight
Durant
Wade

unfortunately, rose misses the cut. :(

none of those players played better than rose that year :roll: youre only listing names with a track record better than 3rd year rose. lol

[Lebronxrings]

none of those players played better than rose that year :roll:
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[nathanjizzle]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

go to 82games.com. give me a player who had a better clutch game record than rose at 30-10. thats rediculous for leading a team to victory.almost half the games they played came to clutch scenerios and rose led them to win 75 percent of those games!!!!

let me guess. winning doesnt matter, its about efficiency? :roll:

[tpols]

Jordan isn't top 70 in TS%. Bird is barely top 100. Kobe is barely top 200.


i think the problem pointguard is that you're boiling down everything to just TS with no volume context.. just take a look at top 10 all time for FG..


Deandre Jordan
Artis Gilmore
Tyson Chandler
Shaquille Oneal
Dwight Howard
Mark West
Amir Johnson
Steve Johnson
Daryl Dawkins
James Dondaldson


hardly a list of eye poppers. The fact of the matter is, any measure of efficiency will favor low volume big men. that doesnt mean we should disgard the truest measure of points per opportunity we have available.

[Pointguard]

Only? That is only by far the most important time of the year. The Bulls had HCA, swept the regular season series against the Heat, and won game 1 by 20 points.

..... Then LeBron became Rose's daddy

that is a pretty big deal. :lol

Lebron became a zombie after that series. Everything points to him having sold his soul to the devil to stop Rose. He went in that series Lebron came out of it a zombie.

Its stupid talk but was Duncan Lebron's daddy when Lebron shot the exact same way against them?

Like I said its clown talk. Durant is going to beat Lebron this year. It will be the battle of the great colluders. When you collude you are suppose to win. If Rose is suppose to outplay Lebron and Wade at 22 years old he's above Jordan.

[warriorfan]

Grab the top ten career TS%. And compare it to any list. Its by far the worst stat for career guys. As I've stated here many times TS% is far inferior to most stats. Even turnovers per game (an aggression stat) is better indicator of HOF potential. Magic is the only top ten GOAT in the top 20 and you guys never ever, talk about Magic in this capacity. I don't know of a stat that has less HOFers on it than TS%.

Jordan isn't below the top 70. Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Robinson, Moses and Duncan all suffered in TS%, vs say Dirk, Kareem and KG who had ok numbers with it.

Jordan isn't top 70 in TS%. Bird is barely top 100. Kobe is barely top 200.

All players who don't have shooters, floor spreaders, athletes, finishers, co creators all suffer with TS%. Its impossible to win with a great TS% without those elements. When Lebron lost Kyrie his TS% was trash but he nearly went up to 3-1 on the Warriors when he just becomes aggressive.

TS is the best and most accurate way to measure efficiency of a scorer. Hands down.

Bringing up career stats is just muddying the waters. (Who the hell uses career averages while evaluating players anyways?)





P.S. your incorrect explanation completely sidestepped half of your statement


Overall its one of the worst stats in measuring greatness. Especially, in measuring an aggressive chaos creating PG its totally useless.

:confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

i think the problem pointguard is that you're boiling down everything to just TS with no volume context.. just take a look at top 10 all time for FG..


Deandre Jordan
Artis Gilmore
Tyson Chandler
Shaquille Oneal
Dwight Howard
Mark West
Amir Johnson
Steve Johnson
Daryl Dawkins
James Dondaldson


hardly a list of eye poppers. The fact of the matter is, any measure of efficiency will favor low volume big men. that doesnt mean we should disgard the truest measure of points per opportunity we have available.
He used one stat. You should be talking to him, right?

How many times have I broke down how aggressive chaos players can't be held to the TS standard.

I think the stat can be used effectively. Especially for shooters. FG% definitely has a better look, without question, for GOAT players than TS%. Why am I the only guy on this board that talks about Magic TS%?

[warriorfan]

He used one stat. You should be talking to him, right?

How many times have I broke down how aggressive chaos players can't be held to the TS standard.

I think the stat can be used effectively. Especially for shooters. FG% definitely has a better look, without question, for GOAT players than TS%. Why am I the only guy on this board that talks about Magic TS%?

Player A

10/25 from the field, all points in the paint, no 3 pointers made
4/4 from FT line
24 points scored
40% FG


Player B

8/25 from the field, 3 layups, 5 3-point shots
4/4 from FT line
25 points scored
32% FG


Now let's calculate the TS%

Player A's TS% = .448

Player B's TS% = .467


Despite the lower Field Goal Percentage, Player B was able to score more points on the same amount of shots, thus making his performance more efficient


I hope you now understand how FG% fails to take into account 3 point shots which makes True Shooting% the more accurate measure for efficiency

[Pointguard]

TS is the best and most accurate way to measure efficiency of a scorer. Hands down.
And... . Its not telling you who is a better player or if he's a great player. Jordan was a better scorer than anybody playing now. They will admit it.


Bringing up career stats is just muddying the waters. (Who the hell uses career averages while evaluating players anyways?)


P.S. your incorrect explanation completely sidestepped half of your statement


:confusedshrug:
:lol

wait so if a guy shoots great TS% every year of his 15 year career it muddies the water, to say he's a great example of TS%.


REALLY?

[tpols]

FG% definitely has a better look, without question, for GOAT players than TS%. Why am I the only guy on this board that talks about Magic TS%?


check out the FG efficiency list for yourself .. link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html) .. you said michael jordan isnt top 70 for TS ... well, he aint top 140 for FG.


i agree about the context about giving credit to guys for drawing extra defensive attention though

[Pointguard]

Player A

10/25 from the field, all points in the paint, no 3 pointers made
4/4 from FT line
24 points scored
40% FG


Player B

8/25 from the field, 3 layups, 5 3-point shots
4/4 from FT line
25 points scored
32% FG


Now let's calculate the TS%

Player A's TS% = .448

Player B's TS% = .467


Despite the lower Field Goal Percentage, Player B was able to score more points on the same amount of shots, thus making his performance more efficient


I hope you now understand how FG% fails to take into account 3 point shots which makes True Shooting% the more accurate measure for efficiency

The game is won on aggression and working with what you have. You can measure efficiency all you want, its inferior to to those qualities.

[Pointguard]

check out the FG efficiency list for yourself .. link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html) you said jordan isnt top 70 for TS ... well, he aint top 140 for FG.


i agree about the context about giving credit to guys for drawing extra defensive attention though
Shaq, Wilt, Kareem were all dominant in FG% and lead the league in it.

You know me, though. I never use 1 stat or not explain myself.

[LakersFan626]

Dwight. Rose wasn't even a top 5 player that season

What? Rose took his team to the best record in the LEAGUE and to the ECF, with a supporting cast of Deng, Noah, and Boozer. Dwight "carried" the Magic to a worse record than they had the last two years, and a first round exit to the HAWKS in six games.

Rose has a great case for being the best player in the league that year, as his impact on that Bulls team was extraordinary. Impact means way more than what percentage of your shots you make (and Dwight's a 7 footer, so he SHOULD shoot over 50%).

[Smoke117]

What? Rose took his team to the best record in the LEAGUE and to the ECF, with a supporting cast of Deng, Noah, and Boozer. Dwight "carried" the Magic to a worse record than they had the last two years, and a first round exit to the HAWKS in six games.

Rose has a great case for being the best player in the league that year, as his impact on that Bulls team was extraordinary. Impact means way more than what percentage of your shots you make (and Dwight's a 7 footer, so he SHOULD shoot over 50%).

Yeah...because being the best defensive team in the league had nothing to do with that, right? Rose wasn't even a top 5 defensive player on this team either...so he had very little to do with this.

[warriorfan]

I've seen enough, Pointguard is retarded

[Pointguard]

Yeah...because being the best defensive team in the league had nothing to do with that, right? Rose wasn't even a top 5 defensive player on this team either...so he had very little to do with this.

Rose was the best defensive guard on his team. That's why he was guarding Wade in the 4th quarter of ECFs. He lead all PG's in blocks. They had the best perimeter D in the league as well. Miami was great on defense that year as well. Only Deng and Noah were killer defensive players and Noah missed a lot of games (34). Rose embarrassed the elite PG's that year with his defense.

Rose and Deng were the only consistent starters on that team. They had over 20 different starting lineups. Plus they were a young team dealing with all of these injuries and being new to each other. Sorry, with super talented teams, championship teams, veteran teams, and teams acclimated with each other, the Bulls absolutely should not have had the best record in the league.

[Noyze]

Dirk in the 2nd half of the 2011 season was amazing I remember. And then, of course, he went nuts in the playoffs. Especially against OKC.

[Jameerthefear]

What? Rose took his team to the best record in the LEAGUE and to the ECF, with a supporting cast of Deng, Noah, and Boozer. Dwight "carried" the Magic to a worse record than they had the last two years, and a first round exit to the HAWKS in six games.

Rose has a great case for being the best player in the league that year, as his impact on that Bulls team was extraordinary. Impact means way more than what percentage of your shots you make (and Dwight's a 7 footer, so he SHOULD shoot over 50%).
Because Dwight was significantly more valuable to that team than Rose was to his, simple as that.

[Pointguard]

Because Dwight was significantly more valuable to that team than Rose was to his, simple as that.

Not in the fourth quarter.

Not against elite teams.

Not after the all star game when the games mattered most.

Not against the very few good centers in the league (Bynum, Cousins)..

Nor was he as dependable all year.

Nor was he as consistent.

Now against bad teams before March... you got me there.

[CelticBaller]

Rose had a great team backing him up

Dwight? lol

[CelticBaller]

Not in the fourth quarter.

Not against elite teams.

Not after the all star game when the games mattered most.

Not against the very few good centers in the league (Bynum, Cousins)..

Nor was he as dependable all year.

Nor was he as consistent.

Now against bad teams before March... you got me there.
Keep talking out of your ass

Diwght in the regular season:
22.9 on 59%, 14.1 TRB 2.4 BLK (Playing 78 games)

Dwight in the playoffs
27 on 63%, 15.5 TRB 1.8 BLK

This is all while being the only real threat in his team mind you, the 2011 Magic were dumpster fire compared to the bulls :coleman:

[Pointguard]

Keep talking out of your ass

Diwght in the regular season:
22.9 on 59%, 14.1 TRB 2.4 BLK (Playing 78 games)

Dwight in the playoffs
27 on 63%, 15.5 TRB 1.8 BLK

This is all while being the only real threat in his team mind you, the 2011 Magic were dumpster fire compared to the bulls :coleman:
Why did you quote my post? You didn't respond to a thing in it?

Anyway, DH had practically a 50 point 20 rebound game and the Magic weren't in the game against Atlanta. However, when Howard went for 8 rebounds and 8 points, its the only game they win convincingly against Atlanta. He literally had crazy impact.

[juju151111]

Why did you quote my post? You didn't respond to a thing in it?

Anyway, DH had practically a 50 point 20 rebound game and the Magic weren't in the game against Atlanta. However, when Howard went for 8 rebounds and 8 points, its the only game they win convincingly against Atlanta. He literally had crazy impact.
Of course. 2011 DH was absurd defensively.

[Jameerthefear]

Not in the fourth quarter.

Not against elite teams.

Not after the all star game when the games mattered most.

Not against the very few good centers in the league (Bynum, Cousins)..

Nor was he as dependable all year.

Nor was he as consistent.

Now against bad teams before March... you got me there.
none of this is true but that's cool

[CelticBaller]

Why did you quote my post? You didn't respond to a thing in it?

Anyway, DH had practically a 50 point 20 rebound game and the Magic weren't in the game against Atlanta. However, when Howard went for 8 rebounds and 8 points, its the only game they win convincingly against Atlanta. He literally had crazy impact.
Oh please, could you name his supporting cast? you dumb ****

[ClipperRevival]

Rose got like 113 out of 120 1st place votes. That's a landslide. When the voting is THAT lopsided, you have to conclude that the right man got the award. Rose was "the man" on a team that had the best record in the NBA that season and they weren't supposed to have the best record.

Seasons like the 2007-08 (CP3/Kobe) and 1989-90 (Magic/Barkley) are really debatable because the voting was razor close. Rose seems to get disrespected because he could never reach that level again but you have to give him credit for what he did.

And FYI, Howard was awarded the DPOY that year.

[warriorfan]

Note to self: never engage in another basketball discussion with Pointguard again

[warriorfan]

Rose got like 113 out of 120 1st place votes. That's a landslide. When the voting is THAT lopsided, you have to conclude that the right man got the award. Rose was "the man" on a team that had the best record in the NBA that season and they weren't supposed to have the best record.

Seasons like the 2007-08 (CP3/Kobe) and 1989-90 (Magic/Barkley) are really debatable because the voting was razor close. Rose seems to get disrespected because he could never reach that level again but you have to give him credit for what he did.

And FYI, Howard was awarded the DPOY that year.

25 of the past 32 MVP awards have gone to the player on the team with the best record (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2j2oen/a_look_at_the_seeding_of_past_mvps/). Derrick Rose had a better team which had a better record than Dwight, thus dramatically increasing Rose's MVP votes.

[Smoke117]

Rose got like 113 out of 120 1st place votes. That's a landslide. When the voting is THAT lopsided, you have to conclude that the right man got the award. Rose was "the man" on a team that had the best record in the NBA that season and they weren't supposed to have the best record.

Seasons like the 2007-08 (CP3/Kobe) and 1989-90 (Magic/Barkley) are really debatable because the voting was razor close. Rose seems to get disrespected because he could never reach that level again but you have to give him credit for what he did.

And FYI, Howard was awarded the DPOY that year.

That doesn't mean shit...the media awards are all a popularity contest and the Bulls just happened to be a good story.

[feyki]

Wade
Dirk
CP3
Howard
Lebron
And Durant and then Rose .

[ClipperRevival]

That doesn't mean shit...the media awards are all a popularity contest and the Bulls just happened to be a good story.

Not really. The correct guy usually wins 95% of the time or higher. And like I said, when the voting is a lot more closer, I can see the debate but not when it's a LANDSLIDE like 2011. Did Rose get some extra love for being a Bull and overachieving? Of course. But that comes with the territory in ANY season when a player exceeds expectations.

[Pointguard]

Oh please, could you name his supporting cast? you dumb ****
:lol You Mad!

Wait you mean the team that had made it to the ECFs and Finals??? The team that DH lost because Lebron called out the team President and then humiliated the Magic on their floor, and the team of softies didn't even foul Lebron hard in his route to like 50 points. The President took that team away from the chief of staff, cotton candy softy, Denight Coward. But there was ice cream softy SF Hurkabooboo, Mybad Screwthis at PF, PG drinkBeer IFellSon, and not conVinced Carter??? Your king of the softies deserved what he got.

[Jameerthefear]

:lol You Mad!

Wait you mean the team that had made it to the ECFs and Finals??? The team that DH lost because Lebron called out the team President and then humiliated the Magic on their floor, and the team of softies didn't even foul Lebron hard in his route to like 50 points. The President took that team away from the chief of staff, cotton candy softy, Denight Coward. But there was ice cream softy SF Hurkabooboo, Mybad Screwthis at PF, PG drinkBeer IFellSon, and not conVinced Carter??? Your king of the softies deserved what he got.
What the **** are you on about? Put your f*cking helmet back on you aspie.

[Dray n Klay]

What the **** are you on about? Put your f*cking helmet back on you aspie.


:roll: :roll:

[Smoke117]

:lol You Mad!

Wait you mean the team that had made it to the ECFs and Finals??? The team that DH lost because Lebron called out the team President and then humiliated the Magic on their floor, and the team of softies didn't even foul Lebron hard in his route to like 50 points. The President took that team away from the chief of staff, cotton candy softy, Denight Coward. But there was ice cream softy SF Hurkabooboo, Mybad Screwthis at PF, PG drinkBeer IFellSon, and not conVinced Carter??? Your king of the softies deserved what he got.

What the ****? Go meltdown in someone else's thread.

[SCdac]

I'd take Rose for sure. Was a gamer, clutch, and offensive beast that season for a low scoring team. Howard would have been the first MVP to average less than 2 assists per game in like 30 years, when Moses Malone (RIP) did it who was definitely a better player, and his team got stomped out by the freaking Atlanta Hawks while they deliberately single covered Howard. Dwight can put the team on his back only so much (in 2009 Finals against Bynum and Gasol he regressed to like 15 ppg on poor percentages).

[warriorfan]

I'd take Rose for sure. Was a gamer, clutch, and offensive beast that season for a low scoring team. Howard would have been the first MVP to average less than 2 assists per game in like 30 years, when Moses Malone (RIP) did it who was definitely a better player, and his team got stomped out by the freaking Atlanta Hawks while they deliberately single covered Howard. Dwight can put the team on his back only so much (in 2009 Finals against Bynum and Gasol he regressed to like 15 ppg on poor percentages).

For one, MVP does not equal the best player. For two, Dwight Howard could of had 0 assists per game and he would of been a better player than Derrick Rose.

[SCdac]

For one, MVP does not equal the best player. For two, Dwight Howard could of had 0 assists per game and he would of been a better player than Derrick Rose.

Eh, Howard was / is overrated and it's only been proven more and more the last 3-4 years

(note: overrated does not mean bad)

[Smoke117]

Eh, Howard was / is overrated and it's only been proven more and more the last 3-4 years

(note: overrated does not mean bad)

You have no idea what you are babbling on about...the last 3-4 years haven't proved shit except that he clearly hasn't been the same since he had his back surgery.

[warriorfan]

Eh, Howard was / is overrated and it's only been proven more and more the last 3-4 years

(note: overrated does not mean bad)

Howard has been a shell of himself during the past 3-4 years. That doesn't reflect what he did in his early years with the Magic. Dwight Howard very heavily relied on his elite athleticism and once he started aging and had that back injury, he was never the same. When other players age and lose their athleticism they polish their game and add new elements to make up for it, Dwight wasn't this kind of player and never did this. He relied on physical dominance and once that went away he stopped being a dominant player.

[CelticBaller]

:lol You Mad!

Wait you mean the team that had made it to the ECFs and Finals??? The team that DH lost because Lebron called out the team President and then humiliated the Magic on their floor, and the team of softies didn't even foul Lebron hard in his route to like 50 points. The President took that team away from the chief of staff, cotton candy softy, Denight Coward. But there was ice cream softy SF Hurkabooboo, Mybad Screwthis at PF, PG drinkBeer IFellSon, and not conVinced Carter??? Your king of the softies deserved what he got.
Lmao, D rose fans are as incoherent as his dumbass

Who's dumber, D Rose or Pointguard?

[Duncan21formvp]

Derrick Rose easily. Was only allstar on squad had the best record and only lost because his 2nd and 3rd options were playing hurt. Dwight lost in round 1 with HCA to an inferior team.

[SCdac]

Howard has been a shell of himself during the past 3-4 years. That doesn't reflect what he did in his early years with the Magic. Dwight Howard very heavily relied on his elite athleticism and once he started aging and had that back injury, he was never the same. When other players age and lose their athleticism they polish their game and add new elements to make up for it, Dwight wasn't this kind of player and never did this. He relied on physical dominance and once that went away he stopped being a dominant player.

Sure isn't saying much for a player if they have to rely on athleticism for putbacks, alley-oops, and dunks but cant even perfect a damn jump shot or free throw or post move...

Shaq, for instance, may have not been a great shooter but he had great footwork, better playmaking skills, and could play out of the post like a beast.

Dwight is an elite rebounder, shot blocker, and even defender, no doubt, but his offense is overrated and predictable. He's not an elite, all time great offensive player who can create for others in the post. He's largely a finisher around the basket.

Rose has been decimated by injuries too, to be fair, but as far as 2010-2011 season I'd take him for sure

[Pointguard]

Lmao, D rose fans are as incoherent as his dumbass

Who's dumber, D Rose or Pointguard?

You are going to be my new pet on this board.

What the **** are you on about? Put your f*cking helmet back on you aspie.
:lol :lol :lol

Its one thing to think you guys live in caves and never go to games but it's whole other thing to have fun with people's names and folks not bright enough to catch that. There hasn't been one real qualitative response to me by any of you three (the OP included) to anything I've said in this thread. Then I go the fun route and you guys can't keep up there either. Whats really funny is that name flips are more popular now than ever but expecting you guys to have social awareness is like expecting you guys to reflect some basketball knowledge. Not happening.

[Pointguard]

Not in the fourth quarter.

Not against elite teams.

Not after the all star game when the games mattered most.

Not against the very few good centers in the league (Bynum, Cousins)..

Nor was he as dependable all year.

Nor was he as consistent.

Now against bad teams before March... you got me there.


none of this is true but that's cool

So none of this is true... Humor us with a real response. None of it, huh. Just tell us what you think isn't true. I'm betting you won't even try. Other players dissed him that year. Lebron did it again at the end of the year. His peers, the media, everybody joined in.

[GimmeThat]

you should ask those who make it to the 2nd round consistently, at what point does simply being done in the regular season starting to worth more

or as we've known the Spurs: win the championship, lose in the 1st round with practically the same roster, only to make a resurgence few years later


the Spurs PR 'we lost in the 1st round due to basketball and coaching experimentation reasons'

[Bigsmoke]

imma go with Rose.