How has Lebron been better than Duncan?

[Duncan21formvp]

When Duncan beat him head to head twice when Lebron had championship teams and Duncan has as many finals mvp's and dominated Lebron head to head?

[bigkingsfan]

So is Kobe better than Duncan?

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron won FMVP against Duncan


Duncan never won FMVP over LeBron



Its simple

[TheWinningFam]

Tim duncan's had the better teams every series this isn't tennis.
And lebron won fmvp over duncan, duncan didn'thttp://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/what.png

[Duncan21formvp]

LeBron won FMVP against Duncan


Duncan never won FMVP over LeBron



Its simple
Dirk has won Finals MVP over Lebron, Lebron never has won finals mvp Dirk.

It's simple.

[Duncan21formvp]

Tim duncan's had the better teams every series this isn't tennis.
And lebron won fmvp over duncan, duncan didn'thttp://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/what.png
Duncan had the worse team in 2013 and 2014. Lebron had peak Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to rescue him.

[Dray n Klay]

Dirk has won Finals MVP over Lebron, Lebron never has won finals mvp Dirk.

It's simple.

Fine, you admitted Dirk > LeBron > Duncan :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan had the worse team in 2013 and 2014. Lebron had peak Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to rescue him.

Yep, Wade & especially 38 year old Allen were in peak form :lol

[Smoke117]

https://media.giphy.com/media/JaCum1YPPioAE/giphy.gif

[TheWinningFam]

Duncan had the worse team in 2013 and 2014. Lebron had peak Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to rescue him.

so 11/8 bosh and 37 year old ray allen is peak form? http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/what.png

And lebron scored 17 points in the 4th quater to rally the heat back, without that ray allen's shot doesn't matter, not to mention there was a game 7.

Go back to trolling on your knicksman account. http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/what.png

[J Shuttlesworth]

it amazes me that people on here think the finals are a 1 v 1 matchup

Especially when Duncan wasn't the best player on his team any of the series he faced LeBron, but LeBron was always the best on his team each of those series. Quite the stupid comparison

[Milbuck]

Lebron >>>>> Duncan

So is Kobe better than Duncan?
Respond to this OP. Can't have it both ways.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron >>>>> Duncan

Respond to this OP. Can't have it both ways.
Let's start another thread on it, don't like talking about multiple players in the same thread.

[Milbuck]

Let's start another thread on it, don't like talking about multiple players in the same thread.
Nah. We're doing it now. Head to head Kobe 18 wins, Duncan 12. Kobe 4 series wins, Duncan 2.

Don't duck. If Duncan by your logic is better than Lebron, Kobe by that same logic is better than Duncan. Agreed?

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah screw that. We're doing it now. Head to head Kobe 18 wins, Duncan 12. Kobe 4 series wins, Duncan 2.

Don't duck. If Duncan by your logic is better than Lebron, Kobe by that same logic is better than Duncan. Agreed?

OP is a retard that claims LeBron played with peak Shaq, Ray Allen, and Ben Wallace. There's really no point in arguing with him

[NBAGOAT]

you really can't use 07 and 14 to make your point since Duncan was likely not the best player for the Spurs in either of those Finals. I'm guessing that's also your main counterargument to the Kobe Duncan question, that Kobe played with Shaq for a lot of those matchups. Also being a better offensive player and a better peak/prime(in most people's opinions) are the main things that give Lebron a case over Duncan.

[Duncan21formvp]

Nah. We're doing it now. Head to head Kobe 18 wins, Duncan 12. Kobe 4 series wins, Duncan 2.

Don't duck. If Duncan by your logic is better than Lebron, Kobe by that same logic is better than Duncan. Agreed?
Another thread. Let's start it.

[Milbuck]

Another thread. Let's start it.
Nope.

Kobe > Duncan by your own logic.

[Milbuck]

OP is a retard that claims LeBron played with peak Shaq, Ray Allen, and Ben Wallace. There's really no point in arguing with him
Same moron who made a thread ripping Lebron for losing in the Olympics as a 19 year old when near peak Duncan was the captain of that team :oldlol:

Just wanted to see how he'd respond. Didn't think he'd duck right off the bat.

[Smoke117]

Let's start another thread on it, don't like talking about multiple players in the same thread.

I think were good on any more of your threads.

[Duncan21formvp]

Nope.

Kobe > Duncan by your own logic.
No, Duncan has more finals mvp's with the same team. Lebron jumped teams and joined forces with guys who won finals or league mvp's.

[J Shuttlesworth]

No, Duncan has more finals mvp's with the same team. Lebron jumped teams and joined forces with guys who won finals or league mvp's.
So Duncan was in the same situation as LeBron? Drafted to a horrible team/franchise with no support? Didn't know that. Thanks

[SouBeachTalents]

No, Duncan has more finals mvp's with the same team. Lebron jumped teams and joined forces with guys who won finals or league mvp's.

Duncan's played with
1 MVP: Robinson
2 FMVP's: Parker & Kawhi
2 DPOY: Robinson & Kawhi

LeBron's played with
1 FMVP: Wade

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan's played with
1 MVP: Robinson
2 FMVP's: Parker & Kawhi
2 DPOY: Robinson & Kawhi

LeBron's played with
1 FMVP: Wade

No Lebron played with Shaq

3 Final's MVP's and league mvp
Ben Wallace 4x DPOY.

Before Lebron ever won anything.

[Smoke117]

No Lebron played with Shaq

3 Final's MVP's and league mvp
Ben Wallace 4x DPOY.

Before Lebron ever won anything.

This is the kind of trolling we are all talking about in the feedback thread...where it's so absurdly evident that it's mindblowing that it's allowed to continue.

[3ball]

.
Does Duncan turn teammates into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing)??

No, only Lebron does that:



................................................AP G, ASSIST %...... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (15'-16'):.. 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)




These stats prove that Lebron achieves his stats by reducing his teammates' stats and role.. His reduction of teammates' stats causes him team-hop and seek excessive supporting talent that can overcome the reduction.

Let's look at the real-life example: Kobe won 2 rings with Pau as 2nd option, whereas Lebron reduced All-NBA Love and 24/11 Bosh into weak 3rd options, and needed a perimeter stud (Wade/Kyrie) to be 2nd option - Lebron simply needed more help to overcome the reduction of his PF, whereas Kobe did not.

Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

[Lebron23]

Lebron already surpassed him.

[knicksman]

If your dumb, bran is better

[BigKAT]

Duncan is arguebly one of the best PFs to have ever played the game.

But both the fact he had David Robinson and Popovich from the get go, and the fact he ceded a Finals MVP in 2007 (Which shouldn't really be considered past his prime), makes you think Lebron gets the slight edge, even with 16' notwisthanding.

The paradox of Duncan and Pop is that we'll never know whose the one more responsible for their mutual success. Perhaps this next season for Pop will be very telling in that regard, though some would point out that Duncan's role was already diminished.

Duncan's achivements are more impressive so far on a Team level, 50 wins year after year, two extra championships and such, it is Lebron's personaly accolades that I believe put him slightly above him.

Twice as much MVP awards, Year-by-Year domination when it comes to stats, if you compare the two stat-wise Lebron is more impressive, and really the fact Lebron had the more dsyfunctional organization in Cleveland and still managed a ring (Against the 73 warriors) is all the more impressive.

One last thing to note,
Once Lebron hit his stride, he never failed to reach the finals since.
Six straight years. That is unheard of.

While Prime Duncan did have a few years of messing up, plenty of 2nd and even 1st round exits. Duncan's championships in a way felt opportunistic at times, Shaq and Kobe blowing up, that gap before the celtics big 3 and the new Lakers domination and such.

Duncan is tremendous.
But Lebron is ever so slightly more impressive.

[tamaraw08]

Duncan is arguebly one of the best PFs to have ever played the game.

But both the fact he had David Robinson and Popovich from the get go, and the fact he ceded a Finals MVP in 2007 (Which shouldn't really be considered past his prime), makes you think Lebron gets the slight edge, even with 16' notwisthanding.

The paradox of Duncan and Pop is that we'll never know whose the one more responsible for their mutual success. Perhaps this next season for Pop will be very telling in that regard, though some would point out that Duncan's role was already diminished.

Duncan's achivements are more impressive so far on a Team level, 50 wins year after year, two extra championships and such, it is Lebron's personaly accolades that I believe put him slightly above him.

Twice as much MVP awards, Year-by-Year domination when it comes to stats, if you compare the two stat-wise Lebron is more impressive, and really the fact Lebron had the more dsyfunctional organization in Cleveland and still managed a ring (Against the 73 warriors) is all the more impressive.

One last thing to note,
Once Lebron hit his stride, he never failed to reach the finals since.
Six straight years. That is unheard of.

While Prime Duncan did have a few years of messing up, plenty of 2nd and even 1st round exits. Duncan's championships in a way felt opportunistic at times, Shaq and Kobe blowing up, that gap before the celtics big 3 and the new Lakers domination and such.

Duncan is tremendous.
But Lebron is ever so slightly more impressive.

No offense meant but that 6 straight finals was hugely bec of him teaming up with 2 hall of famers battling teams like Chicago who had 1 superstar who wilted under pressure. Against pretenders like the Hawks and the Raptors who will probably not advance in the 2nd round if they faced the healthy OKC, Memphis, Spurs Clips etc in the West.
In my book Lebron is GOAT SF, but I think you might have forgotten how great the PEAK Duncan 13-15 years ago and not just remember that 38 yr old who was not trying to hang on and help his team in whatever ways he can.
The guy has great locker room presence who NEVER feuded with anybody. He also battled with the best, the peak Webber, Shaq, Sheed, KG,
These call come down to preference, I personally pick a more reliable guy who averaged 25 pts, 12 rebs and changed a ton of shots but that's just me.

[Big164]

When Duncan beat him head to head twice when Lebron had championship teams and Duncan has as many finals mvp's and dominated Lebron head to head?
Your thinking too logically.

THis is a troll site where logic is frowned upon. Youll prolly get banned for making such a valid point.

[Big164]

Says the ****tard going on about a turnover record without using any context. :rolleyes:
You want context? Lebron is a sf, he shouldnt even be getting close to the turnover record...thats a pg thingy...Lebron is a disgraceful slut who just gives the ball up to any opposing team that will have it.


Thank god he has clutch Kyrie to bail him out.

[GimmeThat]

When Duncan beat him head to head twice when Lebron had championship teams and Duncan has as many finals mvp's and dominated Lebron head to head?

If Lebron lost to Duncan while having championship team

what kind of team did Duncan had when he beat Lebron?

[iamgine]

This is like saying...how is Kobe better than Horry?

Lebron has massively better stats than Duncan H2H that Duncan started to look like Robert Horry.

[insidehoops]

:dancin

[aj1987]

You want context? Lebron is a sf, he shouldnt even be getting close to the turnover record...thats a pg thingy...Lebron is a disgraceful slut who just gives the ball up to any opposing team that will have it.


Thank god he has clutch Kyrie to bail him out.
Dude, stop being a retarded **** and stick to your main account. Is it banned or are you too chicken shit to post on it?


These call come down to preference, I personally pick a more reliable guy who averaged 25 pts, 12 rebs and changed a ton of shots but that's just me.
So you'd pick Duncan over Kobe, LeBron, Magic, Bird, MJ, etc.?

Duncan averaged 25/12 ONCE in his career. Never even hit the 24 PPG mark in his career other than that one season. To put that in perspective, LeBron never averaged under 25 PPG (outside his rookie season) and never averaged under 5 RPG and 5 APG.

[tpols]

he hasn't been ...


Old man Duncan is one shot away from a clean 3-0 sweep in the playoffs including two historical ass kickings (with a pre-series guarantee from TD himself).. imagine what prime Timmy would have done to bran.

[tpols]

So is Kobe better than Duncan?


that is one of the main criteria for those that would have kobe over duncan .. given they both have had long illustrious careers and played a lot head to head, it's not crazy at all to have that as a tipping point one way or another.


Playoffs are the most important thing when it comes to legacies and how you fare against other all time greats is the pinnacle of what youre capable of as a basketball player.

[Megabox!]

he hasn't been ...


Old man Duncan is one shot away from a clean 3-0 sweep in the playoffs including two historical ass kickings (with a pre-series guarantee from TD himself).. imagine what prime Timmy would have done to bran.
Stop being a moron, the 2 series Duncan won against LBJ his TEAMS were clearly better than Lebron's. For f*cks sake he wasn't even the most valuable player for either of those series that his team won, yet he gets full credit for "beating Lebron" :facepalm

[Duncan21formvp]

If Lebron lost to Duncan while having championship team

what kind of team did Duncan had when he beat Lebron?
Not as good.

[Smoke117]

Tpols still melting down...you'd have to be an idiot (so perfect example) to say Duncan > Lebron

[tmacattack33]

When Duncan beat him head to head twice when Lebron had championship teams and Duncan has as many finals mvp's and dominated Lebron head to head?

LOL...


These arguments are ridiculous.

Lebron is top 5 now. Duncan fans (actually i applaud you on being a Duncan fan, i've never seen one of you before), Curry fans, 14be stans, and Durant stans will have to get used to it.

[tpols]

Stop being a moron, the 2 series Duncan won against LBJ his TEAMS were clearly better than Lebron's. For f*cks sake he wasn't even the most valuable player for either of those series that his team won, yet he gets full credit for "beating Lebron" :facepalm



Lebron had better teams 2/3 times. You're conflating talent level with production ... older tony parker, manu, and Kawhi coming off a seasons where he averaged 11 and 12 ppg isn't better than prime wade, bosh, and slew of great role players birdman, mike miller, battier, ray allen, etc .. the Spurs played a much superior brand of basketball that maximizes every little piece for sure, but they were competing at a talent disadvantage both times.. the second time they were just pissed they gave away the previous year and obliterated them on that revenge factor alone.. with Timmy D giving the guarantee before hand. link (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=avg&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&type=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&param1=NY1LT8MwEIT_Cpf4FsuPTZwcfOgLhNQDgkK5Ova6LSI PbCel_x4jhLTSjmbm27UXpwvVrVW1A9ZUZbXbiRK42JZryWW5a bb1SrZrJdq6UI7YfsoAa3idOkGc5gBS1I0SkjFGXNSrtwfyaYa TxoH0uSoQWo-ovDIKlGNtraypWlW71nn0TQmNkdhAdh0o7sG2iADCG--NFV2N4K0Dacjv42uayRR0NGTRQCUFyoUgmzkEHNKTOeHr816fU 5oKaQrh8_S3iCbYMzXLidqxz9aUezHv_yBO34X0YUmFdLwQdTQ Zdy5OWX9llS6Z6tw8WDNkcZpNMEPC3xudYBzyuo1zmjskLxgWD I9bfViLcr96L4_3O87IZdJcSVoBbYFmhIxRHy-DG6_xLsed3pzD2CPpFl1JyohFfQgzko_4J34A0&param2=browser_search_provider&param3=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&p=tim+duncan+guarantees+2014+youtube)


Lebron probably had his sh!t packed for Cleveland right after that interview. :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

Lebron had better teams 2/3 times




:roll: :roll:



So tpols, would you say that Kobe had the better team vs the Suns in 2006 and 2007? :lol

[egokiller]

Stop being a moron, the 2 series Duncan won against LBJ his TEAMS were clearly better than Lebron's. For f*cks sake he wasn't even the most valuable player for either of those series that his team won, yet he gets full credit for "beating Lebron" :facepalm

LOL at trying to pretend that Duncan's impact in 2007 finals was not MVP caliber.

Yes, Tony won it but Duncan had a much greater impact on both sides of the ball and was the most impactful player on the team. Hold the L and realize that any basketball fan of sound mind currently has Duncan ranked higher than Lebron and for obvious reasons.

Tony Parker (24.5 / 5.0 / 3.3) with 3 steals and 0 blocks
Duncan (18.3/11.5/3.8) with 5 steals and 9 blocks

[NBAGOAT]

LOL at trying to pretend that Duncan's impact in 2007 finals was not MVP caliber.

Yes, Tony won it but Duncan had a much greater impact on both sides of the ball and was the most impactful player on the team. Hold the L and realize that any basketball fan of sound mind currently has Duncan ranked higher than Lebron and for obvious reasons.

Tony Parker (24.5 / 5.0 / 3.3) with 3 steals and 0 blocks
Duncan (18.3/11.5/3.8) with 5 steals and 9 blocks

you have a decent point about the Finals but you mean total overall impact. You're going really have a tough time arguing Duncan was better than Parker on offense. That last statement is laughable and just wrong. If what you said is true, why does reddit, realGm, and this place all have more people who think Lebron>Duncan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron had better teams 2/3 times. You're conflating talent level with production ... older tony parker, manu, and Kawhi coming off a seasons where he averaged 11 and 12 ppg isn't better than prime wade, bosh, and slew of great role players birdman, mike miller, battier, ray allen, etc .. the Spurs played a much superior brand of basketball that maximizes every little piece for sure, but they were competing at a talent disadvantage both times.. the second time they were just pissed they gave away the previous year and obliterated them on that revenge factor alone.. with Timmy D giving the guarantee before hand. link (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=avg&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&type=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&param1=NY1LT8MwEIT_Cpf4FsuPTZwcfOgLhNQDgkK5Ova6LSI PbCel_x4jhLTSjmbm27UXpwvVrVW1A9ZUZbXbiRK42JZryWW5a bb1SrZrJdq6UI7YfsoAa3idOkGc5gBS1I0SkjFGXNSrtwfyaYa TxoH0uSoQWo-ovDIKlGNtraypWlW71nn0TQmNkdhAdh0o7sG2iADCG--NFV2N4K0Dacjv42uayRR0NGTRQCUFyoUgmzkEHNKTOeHr816fU 5oKaQrh8_S3iCbYMzXLidqxz9aUezHv_yBO34X0YUmFdLwQdTQ Zdy5OWX9llS6Z6tw8WDNkcZpNMEPC3xudYBzyuo1zmjskLxgWD I9bfViLcr96L4_3O87IZdJcSVoBbYFmhIxRHy-DG6_xLsed3pzD2CPpFl1JyohFfQgzko_4J34A0&param2=browser_search_provider&param3=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&p=tim+duncan+guarantees+2014+youtube)


Lebron probably had his sh!t packed for Cleveland right after that interview. :oldlol:

The Spurs had 5 of the 6 best players in the 2014 Finals. You can't blame LeBron for Wade playing like a D-League scrub and Bosh being a complete non factor averaging 5 rebounds per game. Not one Miami player played even decently in the Finals that year

[Megabox!]

Lebron had better teams 2/3 times. You're conflating talent level with production ... older tony parker, manu, and Kawhi coming off a seasons where he averaged 11 and 12 ppg isn't better than prime wade, bosh, and slew of great role players birdman, mike miller, battier, ray allen, etc .. the Spurs played a much superior brand of basketball that maximizes every little piece for sure, but they were competing at a talent disadvantage both times.. the second time they were just pissed they gave away the previous year and obliterated them on that revenge factor alone.. with Timmy D giving the guarantee before hand. link (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=avg&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&type=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&param1=NY1LT8MwEIT_Cpf4FsuPTZwcfOgLhNQDgkK5Ova6LSI PbCel_x4jhLTSjmbm27UXpwvVrVW1A9ZUZbXbiRK42JZryWW5a bb1SrZrJdq6UI7YfsoAa3idOkGc5gBS1I0SkjFGXNSrtwfyaYa TxoH0uSoQWo-ovDIKlGNtraypWlW71nn0TQmNkdhAdh0o7sG2iADCG--NFV2N4K0Dacjv42uayRR0NGTRQCUFyoUgmzkEHNKTOeHr816fU 5oKaQrh8_S3iCbYMzXLidqxz9aUezHv_yBO34X0YUmFdLwQdTQ Zdy5OWX9llS6Z6tw8WDNkcZpNMEPC3xudYBzyuo1zmjskLxgWD I9bfViLcr96L4_3O87IZdJcSVoBbYFmhIxRHy-DG6_xLsed3pzD2CPpFl1JyohFfQgzko_4J34A0&param2=browser_search_provider&param3=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&p=tim+duncan+guarantees+2014+youtube)


Lebron probably had his sh!t packed for Cleveland right after that interview. :oldlol:
I'm really having a hard time believing that you even watched a single game of the 2014 finals. Everyone outside of Bron were flat out terrible.....TERRIBLE, it also didn't help them that the Spurs got extremely hot at the right time

[Megabox!]

LOL at trying to pretend that Duncan's impact in 2007 finals was not MVP caliber.

Yes, Tony won it but Duncan had a much greater impact on both sides of the ball and was the most impactful player on the team. Hold the L and realize that any basketball fan of sound mind currently has Duncan ranked higher than Lebron and for obvious reasons.

Tony Parker (24.5 / 5.0 / 3.3) with 3 steals and 0 blocks
Duncan (18.3/11.5/3.8) with 5 steals and 9 blocks
It obviously wasn't a bigger impact than Tony Parker or he would've won the FMVP for that year. Parker ripped through the Cavs' defense, he had his way that entire series. And the only reason some basketball fans have Duncan over Lebron is purely off of the ring count...that's it.

[Lebron23]

Megabox, NBAGOAT, and Southbeachtalents owning this thread.

[Big164]

Duncan is 11-5 vs Lebron in the Finals And Duncan had the inferior team in 12 of those contest.

Duncan > Bron...case closed

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan is 11-5 vs Lebron in the Finals And Duncan had the inferior team in 12 of those contest.

Duncan > Bron...case closed

What's Wilts record against Wills Reed?

[egokiller]

It obviously wasn't a bigger impact than Tony Parker or he would've won the FMVP for that year. Parker ripped through the Cavs' defense, he had his way that entire series. And the only reason some basketball fans have Duncan over Lebron is purely off of the ring count...that's it.

Parker had a higher impact on offense, but Duncan's overall impact was greater. Both had their way that series and the FMVP could have gone either way. The voters weighed the offensive impact as a greater impact, but offense doesn't win games. Both guys played over 37 minutes a game that series.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron had better teams 2/3 times. You're conflating talent level with production ... older tony parker, manu, and Kawhi coming off a seasons where he averaged 11 and 12 ppg isn't better than prime wade, bosh, and slew of great role players birdman, mike miller, battier, ray allen, etc .. the Spurs played a much superior brand of basketball that maximizes every little piece for sure, but they were competing at a talent disadvantage both times.. the second time they were just pissed they gave away the previous year and obliterated them on that revenge factor alone.. with Timmy D giving the guarantee before hand. link (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=avg&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&type=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&param1=NY1LT8MwEIT_Cpf4FsuPTZwcfOgLhNQDgkK5Ova6LSI PbCel_x4jhLTSjmbm27UXpwvVrVW1A9ZUZbXbiRK42JZryWW5a bb1SrZrJdq6UI7YfsoAa3idOkGc5gBS1I0SkjFGXNSrtwfyaYa TxoH0uSoQWo-ovDIKlGNtraypWlW71nn0TQmNkdhAdh0o7sG2iADCG--NFV2N4K0Dacjv42uayRR0NGTRQCUFyoUgmzkEHNKTOeHr816fU 5oKaQrh8_S3iCbYMzXLidqxz9aUezHv_yBO34X0YUmFdLwQdTQ Zdy5OWX9llS6Z6tw8WDNkcZpNMEPC3xudYBzyuo1zmjskLxgWD I9bfViLcr96L4_3O87IZdJcSVoBbYFmhIxRHy-DG6_xLsed3pzD2CPpFl1JyohFfQgzko_4J34A0&param2=browser_search_provider&param3=ch.53.w10.dsp.04-03.us.avg._.0816tb2&p=tim+duncan+guarantees+2014+youtube)


Lebron probably had his sh!t packed for Cleveland right after that interview. :oldlol:

Exactly!! Back to Back Champions and all of a sudden they weren't a good team going for the 3 peat when we were in a game 7 in round 1.

[ShawkFactory]

Only read the first page.

I wonder how many times these exact same points have been made.

[Lebron23]

Duncan wasn't even the best player of the Spurs in the 2007 and 2014 NBA Finals.

Spurs were a well balanced team. Parker was so dominant in the 2007 NBA Finals, and he abused Daniel Gibson.

Spurs winning the NBA title in 2014 was more of a total team effort. LeBron was head and shoulders the best player in his first 3 NBA titles.

[tpols]

Exactly!! Back to Back Champions and all of a sudden they weren't a good team going for the 3 peat when we were in a game 7 in round 1.

the 2014 Western conference was statistically the greatest conference of all time if i remember correctly ... just imagine the damage the spurs would inflict on the league if they played out east.. they wouldnt have missed a Finals but one or two times since '99. we can only fathom the ring count.

[Lebron23]

Lebron in 13 NBA Seasons > Duncan in 19 NBA Seasons, and Kobe in 20 NBA Seasons.

[Big164]

What's Wilts record against Wills Reed?
The 70s Lakers were a bunch of old injured farts, including WIlt

.Bron had Youth and the superior team in 2013/ 2014.. still went 5-7 vs Duncan

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan wasn't even the best player of the Spurs in the 2007 and 2014 NBA Finals.

Spurs were a well balanced team. Parker was so dominant in the 2007 NBA Finals, and he abused Daniel Gibson.

Spurs winning the NBA title in 2014 was more of a total team effort. LeBron was head and shoulders the best player in his first 3 NBA titles.
Lebron in no shape or form was the best player in his first 3 finals, get real.

[Dray n Klay]

The 70s Lakers were a bunch of old injured farts, including WIlt

.Bron had Youth and the superior team in 2013/ 2014.. still went 5-7 vs Duncan


The Heat were statistically older than the Spurs in 2013 and 2014


Wilt had a prime 40ppg West and still lost

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron in 13 NBA Seasons > Duncan in 19 NBA Seasons, and Kobe in 20 NBA Seasons.
Nope!! Lebron has 0 titles that count. Duncan has 5. Lebron had to switch teams to win twice and join superstars twice and needed injuries to win. He only won in 2012 and 2013 because Rose was hurt and in 2016 because Draymond got suspended and Bogut was out in games 6 and 7.

[Lebron23]

Lebron in no shape or form was the best player in his first 3 finals, get real.


Read my posts again. I said LeBron was the best player in his first 3 NBA titles.

And LeBron is a 4x NBA MVP, 3x NBA Finals MVP compared to Timmy 3x NBA Finals MVP, and 2x MVP.

[Lebron23]

Nope!! Lebron has 0 titles that count. Duncan has 5. Lebron had to switch teams to win twice and join superstars twice and needed injuries to win. He only won in 2012 and 2013 because Rose was hurt and in 2016 because Draymond got suspended and Bogut was out in games 6 and 7.


This is a terrible posts bro. I am sure you don't even believe that BS.

[Duncan21formvp]

Read my posts again. I said LeBron was the best player in his first 3 NBA titles.

And LeBron is a 4x NBA MVP, 3x NBA Finals MVP compared to Timmy 3x NBA Finals MVP, and 2x MVP.
Titles don't count when are down 3-2 in a series which was the case with Lebron every year of his career.

[egokiller]

Nope!! Lebron has 0 titles that count. Duncan has 5. Lebron had to switch teams to win twice and join superstars twice and needed injuries to win. He only won in 2012 and 2013 because Rose was hurt and in 2016 because Draymond got suspended and Bogut was out in games 6 and 7.

2012 and 2013 are legit wins. 2016 is not legit because in addition to Bogut and Draymond, Curry had a messed up shoulder and Iggy had a messed up back. 2015 for GSW was not legit either. This narrative that "Lebron's finals are all legit because he mah fav player!!!" is childish and just needs to stop. We know exactly what Lebron is and what he isn't. We all saw 2011.

[Smoke117]

2012 and 2013 are legit wins. 2016 is not legit because in addition to Bogut and Draymond, Curry had a messed up shoulder and Iggy had a messed up back. 2015 for GSW was not legit either. This narrative that "Lebron's finals are all legit because he mah fav player!!!" is childish and just needs to stop. We know exactly what Lebron is and what he isn't. We all saw 2011.

You know how many championships would be illegitimate if we went by your bullshit logic? Too many to count. There's always players hurt or ailing. What you just said is like me saying the Lakers 2009 championship isn't legit because KG got injured when the Celtics were by far the best team in the east before that. Stupid ass logic.

[egokiller]

You know how many championships would be illegitimate if we went by your bullshit logic? Too many to count. There's always players hurt or ailing. What you just said is like me saying the Lakers 2009 championship isn't legit because KG got injured when the Celtics were by far the best team in the east before that. Stupid ass logic.

How is something legit if one or more stars on the other team are hurt? How does your logic work? Do you just magically pretend that if players are hurt that it doesn't impact the outcome of the game? That is some shit logic by any standard.

Next you will be saying that if Cavs were fully healthy in 2015, they would have still lost to GSW.

[Smoke117]

How is something legit if one or more stars on the other team are hurt? How does your logic work? Do you just magically pretend that if players are hurt that it doesn't impact the outcome of the game? That is some shit logic by any standard.

Next you will be saying that if Cavs were fully healthy in 2015, they would have still lost to GSW.

EVERY TEAM has players ailing by the end of this long 82 season game. You're an idiot, shut up.

[Duncan21formvp]

2012 and 2013 are legit wins. 2016 is not legit because in addition to Bogut and Draymond, Curry had a messed up shoulder and Iggy had a messed up back. 2015 for GSW was not legit either. This narrative that "Lebron's finals are all legit because he mah fav player!!!" is childish and just needs to stop. We know exactly what Lebron is and what he isn't. We all saw 2011.
2012 isn't legit, they didn't play the team who could have beaten them in the Bulls due to a major injury. Bulls had there number. In 2013 the Bulls had 3 starters injured and still gave them hell.

[Big164]

Draymond getting suspended in an elimation game nullifys anything the LEbald Stan's have to post.

Silver is the real MVP.

[egokiller]

EVERY TEAM has players ailing by the end of this long 82 season game. You're an idiot, shut up.

You are clueless. There's a big difference between someone who is ailing and someone that has a legitamite injury that causes them to not be half the player they are if not for the injury.

Do you not understand the difference between say, Zeke playing on a severely sprained foot versus say a sore elbow due to a long season? Move along now. The argument was over the moment I decided to make my first post in this thread.

[egokiller]

2012 isn't legit, they didn't play the team who could have beaten them in the Bulls due to a major injury. Bulls had there number. In 2013 the Bulls had 3 starters injured and still gave them hell.

Fair enough, and I will add that the whole "Lebron locked down Rose" is laughable considering he couldn't even lock down Jason Terry. I never seen a fanbase of someone play make belive the way Lebron's fans do. I mean damn we got people in Cleveland walking around with fresh Lebron jerseys on when it wasn't that long ago that they had burned his jersey. :roll:

[stalkerforlife]

He hasn't and he never will be.

Anyone that has Bran ahead of Duncan all time knows absolutely nothing about the game of basketball.

[Dray n Klay]

He hasn't and he never will be.

Anyone that has Bran ahead of Duncan all time knows absolutely nothing about the game of basketball.

Feeling stressed today, Justin?

[stalkerforlife]

Feeling stressed today, Justin?

Not currently.

I was, though.

Almost bought a car today that would've created debt.

I then bought an entertainment center and tried to put it together, but i'm stupid and it broke...so I have to take it back.

[Dray n Klay]

Not currently.

I was, though.

Almost bought a car today that would've created debt.

I then bought an entertainment center and tried to put it together, but i'm stupid and it broke...so I have to take it back.

Don't be so down on yourself.


Grab a beer, watch a movie, play with your kids, LIVE LIFE :cheers: :banana:

[bizil]

GOAT wise, both are on the same level. But both icons are the EASIEST KIND OF GUYS to build a title team around. The easiest guys to build around are either:

- A dominant two way center who can control both sides of the paint. Duncan for all intents and purposes was a 7 foot PF-C or C-PF combo. Who had a dominant paint presence like the legendary centers as it was.

- A perimeter player 6'5 and up who was an alpha dog AND great all around player in one. In addition, these guys could play a minimum of three positions at a high level.

So we are talking the virtual cream of the crop. The GOAT PF vs. THE GOAT SF. But since Bron was more dominant, I would lean to Bron peak-best player wise. Not saying Timmy wasn't dominant, but guys like Kareem, Wilt, Dream, and Shaq were MORE DOMINANT! Among perimeter players, the only guy more dominant than Bron FOR SURE was MJ. But with that said, Bron's the most versatile player of all time to boot!

[aj1987]

The idiocy in this thread... :facepalm

I still can't believe that tpols went from being a somewhat decent poster to a complete and utter moron. All over a Finals which LeBron won like 3 months ago. :oldlol:

[SwayDizzle]

lets keep things simple for just a millisecond here...

lebron has some work to do in order to surpass Duncan. he needs to win two more titles.

lebron is currently in the #10 spot all time. and he just cracked it with his most recent win. congrats to lebron and all his fans. that is a quite a feat considering he still has a lot of gas in the tank and has a lot of potential to move up the ladder with his current super team.

duncan is in the #6 spot.

let me bring up an analogy to further illustrate my point...

imagine you have two tennis stars, one has won 3 grand slams, the other has won 5 grand slams. the one that has won 3 has the better stats, the one that has 5 titles won more of their head to head match-ups in the finals.

who in their right mind would rank the one with 3 wins higher than the one with 5?

Answer: braindead lebron stans

/next

[Smoke117]

lets keep things simple for just a millisecond here...

lebron has some work to do in order to surpass Duncan. he needs to win two more titles.

lebron is currently in the #10 spot all time. and he just cracked it with his most recent win. congrats to lebron and all his fans. that is a quite a feat considering he still has a lot of gas in the tank and has a lot of potential to move up the ladder with his current super team.

duncan is in the #6 spot.

let me bring up an analogy to further illustrate my point...

imagine you have two tennis stars, one has won 3 grand slams, the other has won 5 grand slams. the one that has won 3 has the better stats, the one that has 5 titles won more of their head to head match-ups in the finals.

who in their right mind would rank the one with 3 wins higher than the one with 5?

Answer: braindead lebron stans

/next

One problem...THIS ISN'T ****ING TENNIS, but a team game. What kind of stupid dimwit uses tennis to try and compare NBA players? Lebron is clearly a greater player on an individual level.

[SwayDizzle]

One problem...THIS ISN'T ****ING TENNIS, but a team game. What kind of stupid dimwit uses tennis to try and compare NBA players? Lebron is clearly a greater player on an individual level.
seems keeping things simple doesn't quite work with you smoke

[Smoke117]

seems keeping things simple doesn't quite work with you smoke

If by simple you mean stupid...no it doesn't. Comparing a tennis players grand slams to nba TEAM championships is just absurd.

[aj1987]

seems keeping things simple doesn't quite work with you smoke
According to your "logic", Horry >>> Kobe then.

[SwayDizzle]

If by simple you mean stupid...no it doesn't. Comparing a tennis players grand slams to nba TEAM championships is just absurd.
by your logic you can never compare nba players then. since we are, i'll go by who won more and who won more of the head to head match-ups in the finals.

[SwayDizzle]

According to your "logic", Horry >>> Kobe then.
they are not the same caliber player, a comparison is not even warranted.

[pauk]

If you need that explained to you then either:

A: You know little about basketball.

or

B: You have some sorts of agenda/bias, clouding your basketball judgement.

or

C: A combination of both, but thats harsh, i would say B is more likely.

[aj1987]

they are not the same caliber player, a comparison is not even warranted.
Exactly. That's why that analogy is retarded AF. You can do that with a ton of other players as well.

Same with Kobe and LeBron. LeBron is just flat out better than Kobe at everything. They're not on the same tier.

[ArbitraryWater]

seems keeping things simple doesn't quite work with you smoke

so, all the stats, accolades, clutch performances.... and im supposed to focus on Duncan putting up below 20 ppg for all three finals series' with an at times shitty FG% as the deciding factor for his 'superiority' over LeBron?

[InsanityKills]

OP is fvcking dumbass

[Dray n Klay]

OP is fvcking dumbass

Your avi:roll: :roll: :banana:

[InsanityKills]

Your avi:roll: :roll: :banana:
:lol :lol :cheers:

We need to stop the discrimination against alts bro! I'm trying to spread awareness and I ask you to do the same by using my avy. With you being the face of ISH, your support would be HUGE!

[Dray n Klay]

:lol :lol :cheers:

We need to stop the discrimination against alts bro! I'm trying to spread awareness and I ask you to do the same by using my avy. With you being the face of ISH, your support would be HUGE!

:lol


:cheers:





Good thing no one knows we're the same poster

[InsanityKills]

:lol


:cheers:





Good thing no one knows we're the same poster
:eek:

SSHHHH! No one can ever find out!




:oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

:eek:

SSHHHH! No one can ever find out!




:oldlol:


:hammertime: :hammertime: :hammertime: