LeBron and Hakeem are the only Top 10 players to never play with a superstar...

[Dray n Klay]

That automatically makes their championships more valuable than everyone else in the Top 10

[Big164]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/loss-of-the-ring_queen_lebron_james.jpg

[LostCause]

Although you're trolling and never to be taken seriously, it's always funny how your "facts" are clearly wrong and I'm sure it'll take all but 5 minutes for someone to come in, point that out, then this thread dies

[SouBeachTalents]

So LeBron got outscored in the playoffs and by nearly 10 ppg in the Finals by a player who wasn't even a superstar?

[SouBeachTalents]

But I do agree Hakeem played with by far the worst talent out of any top 10 player of all time

[NBAGOAT]

how are wade and drexler not superstars :oldlol:. You have to go way down an all time list to find someone who didn't play with a superstar in his prime for at least a year.

[Dray n Klay]

http://s18.postimg.org/97b6kyhrt/wilt.png

[Dray n Klay]

how are wade and drexler not superstars :oldlol:. You have to go way down an all time list to find someone who didn't play with a superstar in his prime for at least a year.

Both were injured/past their prime


Would you call current Dirk a superstar?

[jayfan]

how are wade and drexler not superstars :oldlol:. You have to go way down an all time list to find someone who didn't play with a superstar in his prime for at least a year.

Drexler wasn't on the first championship team, in fairness.

[Duncan21formvp]

Both were injured/past their prime


Would you call current Dirk a superstar?
Wade who led the Heat in PER in the finals and dominated the Celtics as well as Shaq who dominated in game 5 vs the Celtics when Lebron went 3-15 in that game locked up by Pierce.

[Duncan21formvp]

But I do agree Hakeem played with by far the worst talent out of any top 10 player of all time
Not really he had Drexler and also Sampson right away and then he had Drexler and Barkley and then Barkley and Pippen. You can say they were old but no older than what 1998 MJ had or 2003 Duncan had.

[Big164]

http://s22.postimg.org/bieafsuep/leturnover.png

[Smoke117]

So LeBron got outscored in the playoffs and by nearly 10 ppg in the Finals by a player who wasn't even a superstar?

OP is such a ****ing dimwit he doesn't even realize he just insulted Lebron.

[NBAGOAT]

Drexler wasn't on the first championship team, in fairness.

ofc but OP's saying Lebron and Hakeem never played with a superstar, not they won championships while being the only superstar on a team. For hakeem, you could even argue sampson and 97 Barkley were superstars.


Both were injured/past their prime


Would you call current Dirk a superstar?

Drexler wasn't that past his prime. Current Dirk no but something like 2014 Dirk has an argument. Just laughable for Wade however. He was in his prime in 2011. Lebron was on that team so it counts but I can't blame you for forgetting about that after watching the 2011 Finals.

[FreezingTsmoove]

SO your admitting Kobe was a superstar in the 3 peat

[Dray n Klay]

http://s18.postimg.org/97b6kyhrt/wilt.png


Exactly, glad you understand.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade who led the Heat in PER in the finals and dominated the Celtics as well as Shaq who dominated in game 5 vs the Celtics when Lebron went 3-15 in that game locked up by Pierce.

You legit say the dumbest shit on ISH :oldlol: which is REALLY saying something

[jayfan]

ofc but OP's saying Lebron and Hakeem never played with a superstar, not they won championships while being the only superstar on a team. For hakeem, you could even argue sampson and 97 Barkley were superstars.



No, you couldn't.

[Duncan21formvp]

The truth is that Jordan is the only top 10 player who never played with anyone who won league nor finals mvp.

[SouBeachTalents]

The truth is that Jordan is the only top 10 player who never played with anyone who won league nor finals mvp.

Hakeem didn't either, if you include him in your top 10

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem didn't either, if you include him in your top 10
Barkley won league mvp.

[jayfan]

The truth is that Jordan is the only top 10 player who never played with anyone who won league nor finals mvp.

Bird?

[jayfan]

Barkley won league mvp.

Why would you count that? Both players were done by then. It was irrelevant.

[Smoke117]

Bird?

Cedric Maxwell was the FMVP in 81. I don't think he was better than bird overall in that series...but was the one given it.

[jayfan]

Cedrix Maxwell was the FMVP in 81.

Ah, ok.

[Duncan21formvp]

Why would you count that? Both players were done by then. It was irrelevant.
Barkley had the highest PER on the team in 1997 at 23.0 he wasn't done by any means and averaged 19 ppg and 14 rpg that season and led the team in Win Shares.

[jayfan]

Barkley had the highest PER on the team in 1997 at 23.0 he wasn't done by any means and averaged 19 ppg and 14 rpg that season and led the team in Win Shares.

Ok, but Hakeem was done, and the team went nowhere. So what's the point?

[GrapeApe]

Wade was clearly a superstar in 2011. That's not even up for debate.

I suppose 2012 is somewhat debatable, but he had a 26.3 PER (3rd best in the league) and averaged 23/5/5/2/1 in the playoffs. He was also imo better defensively than he was in 2011. I think it's fair to characterize that as a superstar season.

[Smoke117]

Ok, but Hakeem was done, and the team went nowhere. So what's the point?

How exactly was Hakeem done in 97? He averaged 23.2/9.2/3.0/2.2/1.5 while still being one of the best defensive players in the league.

[Big164]

Exactly, glad you understand.
Wilt has the top 4 highest scoring seasons of all time. He could've averaged 0ppg, 0 rings after that and still be a lock for the top 10.

Bron on the other hand, has no fvckin records. All he has is the turnover title. That's it.

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem's two titles are vastly over-rated.

Give me a list of the talent on the opposing rosters in his playoff runs. For instance, in the '94 Finals, Ewing had no more surrounding talent, nor did that surrounding talent play any better than Hakeem's.

Hell, in his '94 run, he didn't even face a LEGITIMATE CENTER, until the Finals. And while he outplayed Ewing in that seven game series, he was still outrebounded (by THREE players in that Finals), and put up a game seven of 10-25 shooting.

In his '95 run, he did destroy D-Rob. BUT, in the Finals, it was Hakeem's TEAMMATES who outplayed Shaq's TEAMMATES. If anything, a young Shaq outplayed a peak Olajuwon in that Finals.

[Smoke117]

Hakeem's two titles are vastly over-rated.

Give me a list of the talent on the opposing rosters in his playoff runs. For instance, in the '94 Finals, Ewing had no more surrounding talent, nor did that surrounding talent play any better than Hakeem's.

Hell, in his '94 run, he didn't even face a LEGITIMATE CENTER, until the Finals. And while he outplayed Ewing in that seven game series, he was still outrebounded (by THREE players in that Finals), and put up a game seven of 10-25 shooting.

In his '95 run, he did destroy D-Rob. BUT, in the Finals, it was Hakeem's TEAMMATES who outplayed Shaq's TEAMMATES. If anything, a young Shaq outplayed a peak Olajuwon in that Finals.

You underrate every great center so you can prop up your bf, Ilt. I've seen you talk shit on all the all time great centers not Ilt.

[LAZERUSS]

You underrate every great center so you can prop up your bf, Ilt. I've seen you talk shit on all the all time great centers not Ilt.

I tell it like it is, my friend.

Deal with it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Hakeem's two titles are vastly over-rated.

Give me a list of the talent on the opposing rosters in his playoff runs. For instance, in the '94 Finals, Ewing had no more surrounding talent, nor did that surrounding talent play any better than Hakeem's.

Hell, in his '94 run, he didn't even face a LEGITIMATE CENTER, until the Finals. And while he outplayed Ewing in that seven game series, he was still outrebounded (by THREE players in that Finals), and put up a game seven of 10-25 shooting.

In his '95 run, he did destroy D-Rob. BUT, in the Finals, it was Hakeem's TEAMMATES who outplayed Shaq's TEAMMATES. If anything, a young Shaq outplayed a peak Olajuwon in that Finals.

There's nothing remotely overrated about Hakeem's two titles. The only legit criticism would be that Jordan retired. But in terms of his performance, it was phenomenal

In '94 he won MVP/FMVP/DPOY, and in the playoffs led the Rockets in points/assists/rebounds/steals/blocks while carrying what is easily one of the 2-3 worst rosters to ever win a title. That was easily one of the GOAT seasons in NBA history, if not the GOAT

In '95 he won every series on the road, outplaying and defeating the likes of Malone, Barkley, Robinson & Shaq while averaging an insane 33/10/5/3 throughout the playoffs

You'd be hard pressed to find two more dominating championship playoff performances than that

[Duncan21formvp]

Ok, but Hakeem was done, and the team went nowhere. So what's the point?
Hakeem was still a top 5 player in the league, how is that done?

[Smoke117]

There's nothing remotely overrated about Hakeem's two titles. The only legit criticism would be that Jordan retired. But in terms of his performance, it was phenomenal

In '94 he won MVP/FMVP/DPOY, and in the playoffs led the Rockets in points/assists/rebounds/steals/blocks while carrying what is easily one of the 2-3 worst rosters to ever win a title. That was easily one of the GOAT seasons in NBA history, if not the GOAT

In '95 he won every series on the road, outplaying and defeating the likes of Malone, Barkley, Robinson & Shaq while averaging an insane 33/10/5/3 throughout the playoffs

You'd be hard pressed to find two more dominating championship playoff performances than that

Of course a stan of a player who was a constant failure in the playoffs is going to be salty about an all time great who actually RAISED his game in the playoffs.

[LAZERUSS]

There's nothing remotely overrated about Hakeem's two titles. The only legit criticism would be that Jordan retired. But in terms of his performance, it was phenomenal

In '94 he won MVP/FMVP/DPOY, and in the playoffs led the Rockets in points/assists/rebounds/steals/blocks while carrying what is easily one of the 2-3 worst rosters to ever win a title. That was easily one of the GOAT seasons in NBA history, if not the GOAT

In '95 he won every series on the road, outplaying and defeating the likes of Malone, Barkley, Robinson & Shaq while averaging an insane 33/10/5/3 throughout the playoffs

You'd be hard pressed to find two more dominating championship playoff performances than that

Again. give me a list of these "stacked" rosters that he faced en route. His '94 team had a 56-26 record, and beat a 58-24 Knicks team in the Finals, in a seven game series (and was outscored by NY, as well.) Look up Ewing's roster, and then their numbers in that series, and tell me what an accomplishment that that title was.

Did he play well? Of course, but, he was outplayed by Shaq in the '95 Finals (you could make a case by a solid margin, too.) And again, his TEAMMATES outplayed Shaq's TEAMMATES in that Finals.

These revisionists would have us believing that Hakeem was single-handedly carrying trash rosters past all-time great teams. Couldn't be further from the truth. His rosters had as much surrounding talent, and that outplayed their opposition in those runs.

[tpols]

Of course a stan of a player who was a constant failure in the playoffs is going to be salty about an all time great who actually RAISED his game in the playoffs.

going by your avatar then, you must be made of pure sodium, smoke.

[Smoke117]

going by your avatar then, you must be made of pure sodium, smoke.

Unlike you losers...i'm a FAN...not a STAN. I can be objective about my favorite players. Big Dave definitely takes way too much flack over one series...but I'm not going to have a tantrum over it like you children do when your favorite players are criticized.

[LAZERUSS]

Of course a stan of a player who was a constant failure in the playoffs is going to be salty about an all time great who actually RAISED his game in the playoffs.

You mean "King of the First Round Exit Hakeem?"

How about this then...

Had Wilt had the "good fortune" to have been eliminated in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs, EIGHT times, as was the case with Hakeem, his first round numbers were often HIGHER. And, I have read an idiot post claiming that Hakeem outshot Wilt from the field in the post-season (by a .528 to .522 margin), BUT, I will be comparing their post-season LEAGUE AVERAGES, (and even including eFG%'s), which CLEARLY gives Chamberlain a HUGE edge.

As examples, in Wilt's fist eight post-seasons, and in his first round, he averaged

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .612 in a post-season at .424)

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.)

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

So while Chamberlain was shooting .522 in his post-season career, it came in post-seasons of between .402 to .455.) Meanwhile Hakeem's .528 came in post-seasons of as high as .492, and an efg% as high as .500. MANY in the .485+ range, as well.

And, keep in mind two more interesting points. One, in Wilt's second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg on .528 shooting) his all-time worst roster kept him from playing in the post-season (which probably cost him another 2-3+ ppg in his post-seasob career average.) And two, he faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including Russell in 49, Thurmond in 17, and a PRIME Kareem in 11.

Next...

[Smoke117]

After Ralph got injured and left they didn't put shit around Hakeem for years. One man can only do so much...regardless of how good he is. This isn't tennis.

[Dragonyeuw]

Who was the superstar playing alongside Duncan in 2003? 38 year old Admiral about to retire? Rookie Ginobli? 2nd year Tony Parker?

And Wade was a superstar in 2011 and 2012. What the **** is the OP talking about? I think even calling Pippen a 'superstar' in 91 is a stretch. He was on the border.

[knicksman]

Just give it up op. Lebron is already a known coward. And only a loser can fathom respecting him

[ArbitraryWater]

Where is that epic post Kiiing made on Bron and his athleticism?

[warriorfan]

Where is that epic post Kiiing made on Bron and his athleticism?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400905