The Lebron Choking Chronicles (LCC) Part 1: Superman Dwight

[3ball]

.
In 2009, Lebron's 66-win, 1-seeded Cavs lost to Dwight Howard's lowly Magic in ECF.

Compare that to Jordan's 47-win, 6th seeded Bulls in 1989, that took the champion Pistons to 6 games in ECF - 1989 Jordan CLEARLY did more with less.

[SouBeachTalents]

Have to love a player averaging 39/8/8 and hitting multiple clutch shots is considered "choking"

He was definitely choking here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvTLOhm-TQ

And here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziF3AWpYE0Y

[warriorfan]

Nice! I'm looking forward to future installments of the Chronicles.

[warriorfan]

Reminder: LeBron lost to a Dwight Howard/Rafer Alston team as All-Star Jameer Nelson was out due to injury

[NBAGOAT]

You're wrong in 2 ways. 1st this isn't even a bad moment and 2nd he has bad moments before this so how is this part 1. Why not start with the 07 Finals where he was awful?

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron lost with HCA with peak Ben Wallace on his squad who was a proven champion. Enough said.

[3ball]

Have to love a player averaging 39/8/8 and hitting multiple clutch shots is considered "choking"

He was definitely choking here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvTLOhm-TQ

And here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziF3AWpYE0Y


His teammates played like shit because his ball-domination forced them into predictable play-finishing roles that couldn't succeed against the best teams in the higher-competition playoffs.. Lebron's style of play nearly always does this to teammates, which is why the story is always how they underperformed on the biggest stage.

This is all common knowledge, but let's look at it a different way.. I'm sure you've participated in playground basketball before - essentially, Lebron's ball-dominant style forces his coaches to implement a simple, playground-style offense, where one guy incessantly pounds the rock and controls all the action.

This offense is great for Lebron's stat-padding, but it has no chance of winning against the best teams - the only time Lebron's style has succeeded is when he team-hopped to acquire excessive talent that could overcome his suboptimal approach to the game and inevitable reduction of teammates..

Essentially, one of the massive holes in Lebron's game is his inability to GROW with a team and develop championship chemistry/teamwork over time - his game is too rigid and he lacks the off-ball fundamentals to adjust to teammates (let them hold the ball), so he prefers to shop for a ready-made team of stars to offset his suboptimal style.

[NBAGOAT]

His teammates played like shit because his ball-domination forced them into predictable play-finishing roles that couldn't succeed against the best teams in the higher-competition playoffs.. Lebron's style of play nearly always does this to teammates, which is why the story is always how they underperformed on the biggest stage.

This is all common knowledge, but let's look at it a different way.. I'm sure you've participated in playground basketball before - essentially, Lebron's ball-dominant style forces his coaches to implement a simple, playground-style offense, where one guy incessantly pounds the rock and controls all the action.

This offense is great for Lebron's stat-padding, but it has no chance of winning against the best teams - the only time Lebron's style has succeeded is when he team-hopped to acquire excessive talent that could overcome his suboptimal approach to the game and inevitable reduction of teammates..

Essentially, one of the massive holes in Lebron's game is his inability to GROW with a team and develop championship chemistry/teamwork over time - his game is too rigid and he lacks the off-ball fundamentals to adjust to teammates (let them hold the ball), so he prefers to shop for a ready-made team of stars to offset his suboptimal style.

so what about the Bulls before the 1st 3peat where many other older fans thinks MJ didn't play optimally either. Ofc when Pippen has a terrible series, it's because he's a choker or can't deal with the pressure. However when Mo Williams underperforms, it's because Lebron held him back :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

so what about the Bulls before the 1st 3peat where many other older fans thinks MJ didn't play optimally either. Ofc when Pippen has a terrible series, it's because he's a choker or can't deal with the pressure. However when Mo Williams underperforms, it's because Lebron held him back :lol

That's 3ball's forumula

LeBron's teammates play well: LeBron was carried/stacked roster
LeBron's teammates suck: LeBron held them back

Jordan's teammates play well: Jordan allowed his teammates to shine
Jordan's teammates suck: They choked/were terrible players

[Duncan21formvp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVeuxrQm-oI

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVeuxrQm-oI

Does this retard not realize Duncan was on that Olympic team and was supposed to be their best player & leader :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

Does this retard not realize Duncan was on that Olympic team and was supposed to be their best player & leader :oldlol:

What a moron :roll:

[NBAGOAT]

That's 3ball's forumula

LeBron's teammates play well: LeBron was carried/stacked roster
LeBron's teammates suck: LeBron held them back

Jordan's teammates play well: Jordan allowed his teammates to shine
Jordan's teammates suck: They choked/were terrible players

it's even worse when you're comparing a hofer to a guy who at his best was just a lower tier all star.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Add the 2004 2006 bronze or the 2007 finals where Bron got swept despite most of the games going down to the wire

[3ball]

That's 3ball's forumula

LeBron's teammates play well: LeBron was carried/stacked roster
LeBron's teammates suck: LeBron held them back

Jordan's teammates play well: Jordan allowed his teammates to shine
Jordan's teammates suck: They choked/were terrible players



An example of Jordan's superior brand of basketball (fundamental, off-ball cutting):


https://media.giphy.com/media/xVCegX3kISST6/giphy.gif


Horace Grant initiates the play by making a pass to the cutting Jordan, who quickly squares up and assists scrub Scott Williams.. As you can see, MJ's off-ball cutting makes for a quick-hitting play that's tough to guard, while allowing Horace to initiate the play and be a playmaker..

However, if that was Lebron instead of Jordan, that play would never happen - Lebron would've been pounding the rock at the top of the key and turning his PF Horace into a predictable, stationary floor-spreader, instead of an additional playmaker that makes his team tougher to guard..

Obviously, Jordan's version of basketball is tougher to guard and simply superior #6/6

[Duncan21formvp]

Does this retard not realize Duncan was on that Olympic team and was supposed to be their best player & leader :oldlol:
Lebron interviewed that is what matters here. Duncan was not born in United States, so he sabatoged the team. It was done on purpose.

[Smoke117]

Lebron interviewed that is what matters here. Duncan was not born in United States, so he sabatoged the team. It was done on purpose.

The virgin islands are part of the USA...did your parents drop you on head as a baby? Is this why you are a complete ****ing retard? Or did you accomplish this feat on your own?

[Hey Yo]

.
In 2009, Lebron's 66-win, 1-seeded Cavs lost to Dwight Howard's lowly Magic in ECF.

Compare that to Jordan's 47-win, 6th seeded Bulls in 1989, that took the champion Pistons to 6 games in ECF - 1989 Jordan CLEARLY did more with less.
Game 5...series tied at 2

Biggest playoff game to date in MJ's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

He takes only 8FGA and the Bulls lose by 9. If he didn't disappear and took more FGA than Craig Hodges and Cartwright.....the Bulls end up taking a 3-2 lead in the series.

Instead.....MJ shriveled up on the biggest stage of his career.

[NBAGOAT]

Lebron interviewed that is what matters here. Duncan was not born in United States, so he sabatoged the team. It was done on purpose.

my god, this is some of the dumbest mental gymnastics I've even. You actually think you're defending Duncan by claiming he sabotaged the team :lol

[3ball]

Game 5...series tied at 2

Biggest playoff game to date in MJ's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

He takes only 8FGA and the Bulls lose by 9. If he didn't disappear and took more FGA than Craig Hodges and Cartwright.....the Bulls end up taking a 3-2 lead in the series.

Instead.....MJ shriveled up on the biggest stage of his career.


Here's the problem - in 2009, Lebron's 2nd option was a top 3 player at their position in the conference (all-star), and his 3rd option was a FORMER all-star (Zydrunas 13/8 with 1.4 blk).

Otoh - in 1989, Jordan's 2nd and 3rd options were nowhere NEAR all-stars.. Jordan's 2nd option was sophomore Pippen's 14/6/3 (10/5 in ECF), and his 3rd option was nobody Sam Vincent..

So Jordan's 1989 supporting cast was FAR worse than 2009 Lebron's, yet he led his 6th-seeded Bulls to 6 games with the champion Pistons, while Lebron led his 1-seeded Cavs to underachievement defeat against the lowly Magic.. So despite Jordan's bad game, he did much more with less, while Lebron underachieved (the first of 3 straight underachievements/upsets with the #1 seed from 2009-2011).

[tpols]

3ball,


there should be a prequel to this first chronicle..

"2007: Year of 14% midrange shooting"

please include this at some point.


thanks,
tpols

[Hey Yo]

Here's the problem - in 2009, Lebron's 2nd option was a top 3 player at their position in the conference (all-star), and his 3rd option was a FORMER all-star (Zydrunas 13/8 with 1.4 blk).

Otoh - in 1989, Jordan's 2nd and 3rd options were nowhere NEAR all-stars.. Jordan's 2nd option was sophomore Pippen's 14/6/3 (10/5 in ECF), and his 3rd option was nobody Sam Vincent...
So why was he so scared to shoot? Why did he have more assists than FGA in a 2-2 series?

Bottom line is that your boy couldn't handle the spotlight in the biggest postseason game of his career. He froze up like a deer in the headlights.

Role player Vinny Johnson outscored MJ in half the MP.....:confusedshrug:


Sam Vincent as his 3rd option....:rolleyes:

[SouBeachTalents]

So why was he so scared to shoot? Why did he have more assists than FGA in a 2-2 series?

Bottom line is that your boy couldn't handle the spotlight in the biggest postseason game of his career. He froze up like a deer in the headlights.

Role player Vinny Johnson outscored MJ in half the MP.....:confusedshrug:


Sam Vincent as his 3rd option....:rolleyes:

Same exact thing happened to LeBron in Game 4 of the 2011 Finals

[3ball]

Same exact thing happened to LeBron in Game 4 of the 2011 Finals


The difference is that Lebron's team was the favorite because his 2nd option was prime Wade and prime Bosh.

Otoh, Jordan's team was severe underdog because his 2nd option was sophomore Pippen's 14/6/3 (10/5 in ECF), and his 3rd option was nobody Sam Vincent.. That's worse than the current 76'ers cast would be, and a stark contrast from prime Wade and Bosh.

Also, Jordan averaged 30/6/7 in that series against the champs and their GOAT-level defense, compared to Lebron's 17 ppg in 2011 Finals against the underdog Mavs and Barea.. So comparing the two series is dumb
.

[Hey Yo]

Same exact thing happened to LeBron in Game 4 of the 2011 Finals
Game 4 was the biggest game of LeBrons postseason career up to that point??? ......no

LeBron was captain and was expected to lead Wade's team??......no

A role player outscored him in half the MP??.......no

LeBron only took 8 FGA?....no


whelp....looks like the exact same thing "didn't happen" in game 4 of that Finals.

[Hey Yo]

The difference is that Lebron's team was the favorite because his 2nd option was prime Wade and prime Bosh.
It was Wade's team at the time. Didn't become Lebron's team till the following season.....when they won B2B Titles


Otoh, Jordan's team was severe underdog because his 2nd option was sophomore Pippen's 14/6/3 (10/5 in ECF), and his 3rd option was nobody Sam Vincent.. That's worse than the current 76'ers cast would be, and a stark contrast from prime Wade and Bosh.

Doesn't change the fact that MJ was looked at to lead the team in that very crucial game 5 and shit to bed.

You're still full of shit about Vincent.


Also, Jordan averaged 30/6/7 in that series against the champs and their GOAT-level defense, compared to Lebron's 17 ppg in 2011 Finals against the underdog Mavs and Barea.. So comparing the two series is dumb.
So why did he only take 8 FGA in the biggest game od his career to date?

It is dumb to compare the 2. MJ was the captain and leader of Chicago while James was not for Miami....Wade was.

Like I said earlier, we all saw what happen once Wade turned the team over to LeBron....B2B titles.

[egokiller]

That's 3ball's forumula

LeBron's teammates play well: LeBron was carried/stacked roster
LeBron's teammates suck: LeBron held them back

Jordan's teammates play well: Jordan allowed his teammates to shine
Jordan's teammates suck: They choked/were terrible players

The formula is simple.

Lebron - has choked in the finals
Jordan - has not choked in the finals. Perfection 6/6

No one cares who was on who's team.

[Big164]

Dwight is a 6'9 big man. Its no surprise Lebron lost to him.

The best center Lebron has beaten was a 47 year old tim duncan, and that went 7 tough games, courtesy of Ray Allens clutch shooting.

[egokiller]

Dwight is a 6'9 big man. Its no surprise Lebron lost to him.

The best center Lebron has beaten was a 47 year old tim duncan, and that went 7 tough games, courtesy of Ray Allens clutch shooting.

Exactly, how many centers did MJ face in the finals when driving in vs how many Lebron has had to face. If bogut wouldn't have gone down, Lebron would have been done. We know this because it took a critical shot by Kyrie to put them in position to win. Imaging how much bigger the differential in score would have been if Bogut was playing, among other things.

[aj1987]

Exactly, how many centers did MJ face in the finals when driving in vs how many Lebron has had to face. If bogut wouldn't have gone down, Lebron would have been done. We know this because it took a critical shot by Kyrie to put them in position to win. Imaging how much bigger the differential in score would have been if Bogut was playing, among other things.
Bogut and his amazing 10 MPG.

How many accounts do you need, you retarded clown?

[Big164]

Bogut plays, Lebron loses.

Warriors were dumb to trade him. I woulda sacrificed Iggy first...Especially if I knew I already had KD.

[34-24 Footwork]

The iggy hype was off the charts in 2015. He didnt have that much hype even in his prime...

He got a claim to fame of being an elite defender in the finals by guarding someone who can't consistently score when he's further than 5 feet from the rim.

It was a strange time for basketball.

[Big164]

Iggy is the most over rated player in nba history. Commpare his 2015 finals stats to curry and it's a joke he was even awarded.

[Real Cavs Fan]

That loss wasn't LeBron's fault. His team sucked.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bogut plays, Lebron loses.

Warriors were dumb to trade him. I woulda sacrificed Iggy first...Especially if I knew I already had KD.

2015 Finals, Warriors down 2-1

Bogut
Game 4: 3 minutes played
Game 5: 0 minutes played
Game 6: 0 minutes played

All Golden State wins

[TommyGriffin]

2015 Finals, Warriors down 2-1

Bogut
Game 4: 3 minutes played
Game 5: 0 minutes played
Game 6: 0 minutes played

All Golden State wins
We didn't have Kevin Love.

[egokiller]

Bogut and his amazing 10 MPG.

How many accounts do you need, you retarded clown?

How many good centers did Lebron face in his post season matchups that led to his 3 rings in comparison to what Jordan faced? Since you just down played bogut, you can't use him. I swear with every reply you tards make lebron's case even worse.

[aj1987]

How many good centers did Lebron face in his post season matchups that led to his 3 rings in comparison to what Jordan faced? Since you just down played bogut, you can't use him. I swear with every reply you tards make lebron's case even worse.
What the **** are you even prattling on about? Bogut played 10 minutes a game. That's an indisputable FACT. In G5, even before his injury, he played pretty much near his 10 minutes and LeBron still scored 41/16/7/3/3 on 61% TS.

Stop being a retarded shit, warriorfag.


2015 Finals, Warriors down 2-1

Bogut
Game 4: 3 minutes played
Game 5: 0 minutes played
Game 6: 0 minutes played

All Golden State wins
Rekt.

[GrapeApe]

Here's the problem - in 2009, Lebron's 2nd option was a top 3 player at their position in the conference (all-star), and his 3rd option was a FORMER all-star (Zydrunas 13/8 with 1.4 blk).

Otoh - in 1989, Jordan's 2nd and 3rd options were nowhere NEAR all-stars.. Jordan's 2nd option was sophomore Pippen's 14/6/3 (10/5 in ECF), and his 3rd option was nobody Sam Vincent..

So Jordan's 1989 supporting cast was FAR worse than 2009 Lebron's, yet he led his 6th-seeded Bulls to 6 games with the champion Pistons, while Lebron led his 1-seeded Cavs to underachievement defeat against the lowly Magic.. So despite Jordan's bad game, he did much more with less, while Lebron underachieved (the first of 3 straight underachievements/upsets with the #1 seed from 2009-2011).

Such ridiculous logic. Mo Williams was only an all-star because of Cleveland's record, and that record was almost entirey due to Lebron. He doesn't sniff the all-star game on any other team. Lol at him being top 3 at his position. His 17.3 PER ranked 9th among eastern PG's. There's a reason he was never an all-star before and was never an all-star again.

[egokiller]

Such ridiculous logic. Mo Williams was only an all-star because of Cleveland's record, and that record was almost entirey due to Lebron. He doesn't sniff the all-star game on any other team. Lol at him being top 3 at his position. His 17.3 PER ranked 9th among eastern PG's. There's a reason he was never an all-star before and was never an all-star again.

If the phagg0ts want to say that Kyrie in 2016 isn't an all-star, then saying Mo Williams in 09 is an all-star is fair game. Gotta handle phagg0try with phagg0try. It's the only mindset they understand because their comprehension of actual intellectual NBA discussion is not possible. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

If the phagg0ts want to say that Kyrie in 2016 isn't an all-star, then saying Mo Williams in 09 is an all-star is fair game. Gotta handle phagg0try with phagg0try. It's the only mindset they understand because their comprehension of actual intellectual NBA discussion is not possible. :roll:

That's actually a valid point :lol People make way too big a deal about All-Star appearances and the All-Star game in general, it's just an exhibition game where the players don't try hard that's based off half a season of work. All-NBA is much more valid imo

[pauk]

I wonder if 3ball will ever get of Jordans jockstrap, diminishing all players and basketball itself today beacuse it isnt coming from Jordan anymore is just retarded... you are not a basketball fan... Jordan has retired long time ago... and he is the GOAT, what is there to be so insecure about? Let him go... every time somebody gets a ring, mvp, fmvp, scores 50+ you feel the need to remind us of what Jordan once did...

Like seriously, what do you want? Let us all just stop appreciating basketball...? Because Jordan >......

[Lebron23]

OP is an idiot. And dumber than a rock.

[egokiller]

I wonder if 3ball will ever get of Jordans jockstrap, diminishing all players and basketball itself today beacuse it isnt coming from Jordan anymore is just retarded... you are not a basketball fan... Jordan has retired long time ago... and he is the GOAT, what is there to be so insecure about? Let him go... every time somebody gets a ring, mvp, fmvp, scores 50+ you feel the need to remind us of what Jordan once did...

Like seriously, what do you want? Let us all just stop appreciating basketball...? Because Jordan >......

I want to know who will be the next MJ. What the hell is taking so long?

KD, Bron, Curry, Melo, Westbrook, Kobe... all these guys aren't on MJ's level. When the hell are we gonna see someone as good both mentally AND physically as MJ was? Why with all the advances is MJ still so damn untouchable? Is it that hard for the players of today to do what MJ did even with all the collusion? And why are the fans of players of today so damn insecure about it? Why can't we enjoy a brand of basketball like the brand that MJ gave us? Anyone who settles for this current brand of basketball is not a real fan and it's a damn shame that posters like 3ball have to take the time out of their busy schedule to remind people of that fact. Stop pretending like this shit ball is anything close to what we were given during the NBA on NBC. Most people only watch because it's all we have.

Take the blinders off fam!