GOAT Rookie?

[BigKAT]

Basically, judge players ONLY based on their rookie seasons and rookie stats/accomplishments.

Like, if after their rookie season their career ended.

Who was the most impressive rookie?

Achivements: I think Magic Johnson's FMVP in the start of the modern era is the most impressive feat.

Stats: MJ with his 28/6/5 Probably without much contest.

Overall I think that people who did plenty time in college should be considered, since they would be more experienced then guys like Kobe, Lebron and KG who went straight from High school.

I think I'll go with David Robinson. 24/12 and 4 blocks per game, plus he was pretty mature physically by then.

I think that if you put every rookie head to head in generic teams he might just win it all.

[fiddy]

Magic IMO

[aj1987]

Magic IMO
Shaq and Russell are right there as well.

[Psileas]

1) Wilt: Already called the most revolutionary force in basketball. Leading scorer+leading rebounder+MVP+ROY+ASG MVP.
2) Kareem

Magic was great and all, but not #1. He wasn't even ROY, lost to Bird by a landslide. Maybe not fair, but people were bigger on Bird back then. If you include playoffs, he's neck and neck with Bird.

[LilEddyCurry]

Blake Griffin's rookie season was pretty impressive.

22.5/12.1/3.8 on 50.6% shooting

[Harison]

1) Wilt: Already called the most revolutionary force in basketball. Leading scorer+leading rebounder+MVP+ROY+ASG MVP.
2) Kareem

Magic was great and all, but not #1. He wasn't even ROY, lost to Bird by a landslide. Maybe not fair, but people were bigger on Bird back then. If you include playoffs, he's neck and neck with Bird.

Came here to say Wilt and Kareem as well, but dont entirely agree about 2nd part. Bird was clearly better than Magic back then, and continue to be until his back injury.

[Hey Yo]

Blake Griffin's rookie season was pretty impressive.

22.5/12.1/3.8 on 50.6% shooting
Good call

[FKAri]

Only 1 guy mentioned Wilt and Kareem? :lol

[ClipperRevival]

In terms of W-L difference, DRob had the GOAT impact as a rookie. Spurs won 21 games the season before and they won 56 games his rookie season. 35 game turnaround.

24.3 PPG, 26.3 PER, .531%, 12.0 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.9 BPG


MJ:

28.2 PPG, 25.8 PER, .526%, 6.5 APG, 5.9 RPG, 2.4 SPG


Wilt put up ridiculous numbers:

37.6 PPG, 28.0 PER, .461%, 27.0 RPG


As did KAJ:

28.8 PPG, 22.5 PER, .518%, 14.5 RPG, 4.1 APG


Shaq also had a very great rookie season:

23.4 PPG, 22.9 PER, .561%, 13.9 RPG, 3.5 BPG

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ

He put up prime, 2008 MVP Kobe numbers right out the gates ...

Just stop, and think about that please.

[ClipperRevival]

MJ

He put up prime, 2008 MVP Kobe numbers right out the gates ...

Just stop, and think about that please.

MJ's rookie numbers are peak numbers for almost any other perimeter great. Yes, ponder that for a second.

[Lebronxrings]

MJ's rookie numbers are peak numbers for almost any other perimeter great. Yes, ponder that for a second.
shut up.

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq had like 23.5 PPG 14 RPG and 3.5BPG on 56 FG%

[Smoke117]

It's pretty easily David Robinson in the modern NBA. The moment he came into the NBA he was a top 5 player and best defender in the league after Hakeem.

[RRR3]

Off the top of my head weren't Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Tim Duncan and Rick Barry superstars right away?

Just mentioning guys not brought up yet.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Karl Towns

[SugarHill]

wes unseld

[BigKAT]

I know lots of people here mentioned Wilt and KAJ but I'm really trying to stick to the modern NBA game.

I dunno, since the 80's it almost feels like a different game you know?
3 Pt line, influx of cash and players starting to come from overseas for the first time.

I find comparing too hard, especially since the size of the league and level of competition is really different.

Also,
D-rob is still my guy.
We're including playoffs in this comparison and he got to the semis in the west with a team that wasn't even in the playoffs (20 wins or something like that like someone here pointed out).

That's damn impressive.

Also yeah. MJ's rookie numbers were absurd.

[Bawkish]

Wilt & Wes Unseld - only 2 players who won ROTY/MVP

Bird & DRob

[Psileas]

I know lots of people here mentioned Wilt and KAJ but I'm really trying to stick to the modern NBA game.

I dunno, since the 80's it almost feels like a different game you know?
3 Pt line, influx of cash and players starting to come from overseas for the first time.

I find comparing too hard, especially since the size of the league and level of competition is really different.

Also,
D-rob is still my guy.
We're including playoffs in this comparison and he got to the semis in the west with a team that wasn't even in the playoffs (20 wins or something like that like someone here pointed out).

That's damn impressive.

Also yeah. MJ's rookie numbers were absurd.

First of all, you wrote "GOAT rookie", which implies all eras, not "modern game".
Second, nobody ever managed to explain exactly when the "modern game" began. Why 1980 in particular? Because of the 3 pointer, which was almost irrelevant throughout the whole 80's? Why not the zone implementation, which had a more immediate effect? I think most just use Magic's and Bird's debuts as a benchmark, but in order to sound objective and impersonal use the 3 pointer as the real reason behind this, although hardly anyone used it in its first years. Objectively, an early 80's game looks hardly any different from a 70's ABA game, which is usually not considered "modern era", but way more so compared to a 2016 game.
So, either remove the eras up to the mid-90's (yeah, nobody does this, because who is going to leave out Magic, Bird and, gasp, MJ? :eek: ) or expand the "modern era" to match a more important benchmark. For me, the modern era starts in 1955-56, when the shot clock was introduced. Any other change in the league was either very gradual or was dwarfed by this.
Yes, the 1956 game looks so much different compared to now, but, like I said, 80's to me seem a lot closer to the 70's than 2010's as well.

[LAZERUSS]

First of all, you wrote "GOAT rookie", which implies all eras, not "modern game".
Second, nobody ever managed to explain exactly when the "modern game" began. Why 1980 in particular? Because of the 3 pointer, which was almost irrelevant throughout the whole 80's? Why not the zone implementation, which had a more immediate effect? I think most just use Magic's and Bird's debuts as a benchmark, but in order to sound objective and impersonal use the 3 pointer as the real reason behind this, although hardly anyone used it in its first years. Objectively, an early 80's game looks hardly any different from a 70's ABA game, which is usually not considered "modern era", but way more so compared to a 2016 game.
So, either remove the eras up to the mid-90's (yeah, nobody does this, because who is going to leave out Magic, Bird and, gasp, MJ? :eek: ) or expand the "modern era" to match a more important benchmark. For me, the modern era starts in 1955-56, when the shot clock was introduced. Any other change in the league was either very gradual or was dwarfed by this.
Yes, the 1956 game looks so much different compared to now, but, like I said, 80's to me seem a lot closer to the 70's than 2010's as well.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

To add to that...

just take a look at the great players who came from the 70's (and even 60's...KAJ), that moved into the 80's. Players like Moses, Dr. J, Dantley, Gilmore, Gervin, Kareem, and others. They were all great players into the 80's, as well. Hell, an old Kareem was carpet-bombing Hakeem and Ewing...two players who were great into the 90's.

[3ba11]

In terms of W-L difference, DRob had the GOAT impact as a rookie. Spurs won 21 games the season before and they won 56 games his rookie season. 35 game turnaround.

24.3 PPG, 26.3 PER, .531%, 12.0 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.9 BPG


MJ:

28.2 PPG, 25.8 PER, .526%, 6.5 APG, 5.9 RPG, 2.4 SPG


Wilt put up ridiculous numbers:

37.6 PPG, 28.0 PER, .461%, 27.0 RPG


As did KAJ:

28.8 PPG, 22.5 PER, .518%, 14.5 RPG, 4.1 APG


Shaq also had a very great rookie season:

23.4 PPG, 22.9 PER, .561%, 13.9 RPG, 3.5 BPG


The problem with David Robinson is that the 90' Spurs added another all-nba player in Terry Cummings - Cummings was all-nba in 89' and 23 ppg in 90' - the Spurs also added future all-pros or all-stars Rod Strickland and Sean Elliot, who were both significant contributors that year.. So DR's rookie impact is a little overrated.

Wilt is probably the goat rookie, then MJ or Kareem.

[72-10]

Wilt & Wes Unseld - only 2 players who won ROTY/MVP

Bird & DRob

Elvin Hayes did something similar, but also the previous year with a collegiate sweep

[72-10]

The problem with David Robinson is that the 90' Spurs added another all-nba player in Terry Cummings - Cummings was all-nba in 89' and 23 ppg in 90' - the Spurs also added future all-pros or all-stars Rod Strickland and Sean Elliot, who were both significant contributors that year.. So DR's rookie impact is a little overrated.

Wilt is probably the goat rookie, then MJ or Kareem.

Robinson's rookie status might still be a bit cheapened by the fact that that he was two years out of college, although he was also more out of practice than he otherwise would have been. I'd say you're stupid for claiming it's Wilt when the league was not even pre-eminent until the 1961-62 season. I think you could make a case it's MJ, especially those first 16 games when he served as a metaphorical workhorse and you know he earned everything he got. He did well against Moncrief his 2nd / 3rd games in / had some Career highlights including a 6 steal game and a monster alley-oop in the other, played awesome defense. That start set itself as a precursor to his prime.

[3ba11]

Robinson's rookie status might still be a bit cheapened by the fact that that he was two years out of college, although he was also more out of practice than he otherwise would have been. I'd say you're stupid for claiming it's Wilt when the league was not even pre-eminent until the 1961-62 season. I think you could make a case it's MJ


It's MJ if we're looking at sheer ability.. But if we're going by stats, you could argue Wilt or maybe a couple others.

But the video tape doesn't lie - pre-NBA jordan was alien-like.. go watch his olympic highlights or exhibitions against pros in 84' - he's literally FAR BETTER than say, Jalen Green or anyone in this year's draft.. on another level from everyone, including Lebron who was just a basic offensive player - a right-hand stiff-armer and wasn't doing half the shit MJ was doing..

if 84' MJ was in the draft today, my jaw would drop to the floor the first time I saw his highlights..

[Smoke117]

The problem with David Robinson is that the 90' Spurs added another all-nba player in Terry Cummings - Cummings was all-nba in 89' and 23 ppg in 90' - the Spurs also added future all-pros or all-stars Rod Strickland and Sean Elliot, who were both significant contributors that year.. So DR's rookie impact is a little overrated.

Wilt is probably the goat rookie, then MJ or Kareem.

Terry Cumming's was just a high volume shooter. His impact wasn't anywhere close to Robinson's.

[3ba11]

Terry Cumming's was just a high volume shooter. His impact wasn't anywhere close to Robinson's.


Cummings had good advanced stats and led the Spurs in playoff scoring - 25 on 53%

His impact can't touch Robinson's but he was a pretty big piece and was always a great defender.. He was all-nba the prior year and a big pickup

[Smoke117]

Cummings had good advanced stats and led the Spurs in playoff scoring - 25 on 53%

His impact can't touch Robinson's but he was a pretty big piece and was always a great defender.. He was all-nba the prior year and a big pickup

Terry Cummings was never a great defender lol. He had a -0.1 dbpm to Robinson's 2.9 and a 104 drating to Robinsons 97. Robinson completely carried the Spurs defense in 1990 and as I said previously, was already the 2nd best defensive player in the world after Hakeem Olajuwon. I'll give it to Cumming's that he had a good playoffs, but saying he was a great defensive player is complete nonsense.

[3ba11]

Terry Cummings was never a great defender lol. He had a -0.1 dbpm to Robinson's 2.9 and a 104 drating to Robinsons 97. Robinson completely carried the Spurs defense in 1990 and as I said previously, was already the 2nd best defensive player in the world after Hakeem Olajuwon. I'll give it to Cumming's that he had a good playoffs, but saying he was a great defensive player is complete nonsense.


The stats don't tell the story for low steals and blocks defenders like Dumars or Cummings - the creators of those stats state this fact very clearly on bballref.

Cummings was always a great defender, but a lot of young fans won't know that even though it was common knowledge back then and to older fans.

[taabhimself]

Mike Miller yo. rookie of the year averaging 12 4 and 2 lol

[Airupthere]

MJ

He put up prime, 2008 MVP Kobe numbers right out the gates ...

Just stop, and think about that please.

And notice that it is mostly big players that do well as rookies - Wilt, KAJ, Shaq. Jordan just visually had the tools as a rookie. He had the swagger and confidence and was schooling most of the league as a rookie without resorting to size advantage.

[bison]

re: Wilt and Russell, in the 1950s the talent gap between college and pro ball was way closer than it is today. Not to say they weren't GOAT rookies but they were already established beasts heading into the NBA. I think Shaq comes that close to me. I remember I started watching basketball in early 90s and college Shaq was already acknowledged as an unstoppable force.

[Round Mound]

Kareem

[ClipperRevival]

The problem with David Robinson is that the 90' Spurs added another all-nba player in Terry Cummings - Cummings was all-nba in 89' and 23 ppg in 90' - the Spurs also added future all-pros or all-stars Rod Strickland and Sean Elliot, who were both significant contributors that year.. So DR's rookie impact is a little overrated.

Wilt is probably the goat rookie, then MJ or Kareem.

Yup, true.

And that is why DRob's impact as a rookie gets overrated because most assume it was just him added to the same team and they improved by 35 wins.

[HoopsNY]

Surprised no one mentioned Big O. He averaged almost a triple double his rookie season.

[kawhileonard2]

Has to be Kareem as a rookie.

[Bay Area Baller]

Michael Jordan or Bobby Fischer. Wait what are we talking about. Jk yo.

[kennygriffin]

Kobe.. his true rookie year was 2000

1997 = bench
1998 = bench
1999 = fake 50 game season
2000 = first real season ( NBA Champion. saved the WCF and NBA finals )


if kobe won in 97, 98 or 99 nobody counts it. so if thats the case they weren't legit and don't count against him

1999 didn't even have an allstar game and del harris admitted to shackling kobe in 97 and 98 to deflate his ego

george karl did the same thing to kobe in the 98 allstar game.


kobe was basically rookie magic johnson in the finals for the lakers. shaq was mvp but kobe like magic saved the most important game with their big man out