2008 Celtics Vs 2013 Heat

[BigKAT]

Who wins? (Ray allen is on both teams in his respective version)

Celtics at their absolute peak,
Lebron at the highest point of his prime,

This is the same Heat team that managed to give Popovich his only finals defeat, and seemed like they could come back from any defict (Mostly in the RS you'd see them coming from behind 15-20 points to win games)

And this is the Celtics team that won 67 games, dismantled the MVP's lakers and restored the franchise to glory.

*Notes
*The Celtics were taken to 7 games by a younger more inexperienced Lebron
*The Heat were taken to 7 games a year before by an aging celtics core
*Lebron would be playing -angry- if facing that Celtics team
*Pierce could still be considered a preimere defender who could get into bron's head at the time


I'm going with the Heat in 7.

[Suguru101]

Simple:

Regular season version of the Heat, the version that won 27 straight with a healthy Wade?

Series ends in 6.

Post season version of the Heat, who beat SA with an injured Wade?

Series ends in 7.

Heat win either way.

[JohnMax]

2013 Heat = Saved by Ray Allen (who is on Boston Celtics)

[FreezingTsmoove]

Well considering 2013 Ray Allen knows all the Celtics tricks I would say he receals the info to his team and they expose the 08 Celtics

[Doranku]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics, who were probably 80% as good as the '08 Celtics.

'08 Celtics mop the floor with Miami in 5 assuming they have HCA with their 66 wins.

[Nilocon165]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics, who were probably 80% as good as the '08 Celtics.

'08 Celtics mop the floor with Miami in 5 assuming they have HCA with their 66 wins.
How were the 12 heat better

13 had the 27 game win streak with an added Allen, Birdman, and Rashard Lewis

[Doranku]

How were the 12 heat better

13 had the 27 game win streak with an added Allen, Birdman, and Rashard Lewis

Wade was healthier and way more productive in the playoffs/finals.

'12 Wade playoffs: 23/5/4 on 46%
'13 Wade playoffs: 16/5/5 on 46%

I forgot that Bosh was injured in '12, though. Although he was actually worse in '13, particularly in the finals where he had his infamous zero point game 7.

The addition of Allen is significant, perhaps they were a wash in terms of their play during the playoffs. Regardless, the '08 Celtics were a much better team than they were in 2012, still think they soundly defeat the Heat in a 7-game series. Especially if LeBron's jumper is broken for the first four games of the series like it was against the Spurs.

[BigKAT]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics, who were probably 80% as good as the '08 Celtics.

'08 Celtics mop the floor with Miami in 5 assuming they have HCA with their 66 wins.

I chose the 2013 heat because I believe they are better.
They performed very well imo in the playoffs considering the competition they had. (That pacers team was no joke, nor was San antonio. As opposed to a past it's prime celtics team and a too young OKC.)

In fact,
I think that the 2013 Pacers beat the 2012 Celtics.

But that's besides the discussion,
You really think they beat them in 5?
I think the Heat's ultra hyperactive defense schemes do well against them.
A scheme they really perfected in that 2013 season.

[tpols]

I chose the 2013 heat because I believe they are better.
They performed very well imo in the playoffs considering the competition they had. (That pacers team was no joke, nor was San antonio. As opposed to a past it's prime celtics team and a too young OKC.)

In fact,
I think that the 2013 Pacers beat the 2012 Celtics.

But that's besides the discussion,
You really think they beat them in 5?
I think the Heat's ultra hyperactive defense schemes do well against them.
A scheme they really perfected in that 2013 season.



the '13 Heat had BIRDman .. which made a big difference.

A series with the two would be a crapshoot.. celtics have the defense and rim protection to stop the Heat, but the Heat had the perimeter defense to limit the Celtics outside play. it's a coin toss for me.

[Doranku]

I chose the 2013 heat because I believe they are better.
They performed very well imo in the playoffs considering the competition they had. (That pacers team was no joke, nor was San antonio. As opposed to a past it's prime celtics team and a too young OKC.)

In fact,
I think that the 2013 Pacers beat the 2012 Celtics.

But that's besides the discussion,
You really think they beat them in 5?
I think the Heat's ultra hyperactive defense schemes do well against them.
A scheme they really perfected in that 2013 season.

You have to keep in mind that the '08 Celtics had Garnett who was still in his prime and playing MVP-caliber ball for the Celtics, anchoring one of the best defenses of the decade.

He would feast on the likes of Birdman and Haslem. That Heat team was severely limited in terms of their frontcourt. LeBron did an incredible job filling in the blanks with his rebounding/versatile defense throughout the playoffs to cover this up, but those '08 Celtics were a great team. They'd find a way to exploit that weakness for sure, especially with a prime Garnett.

[BigKAT]

You have to keep in mind that the '08 Celtics had Garnett who was still in his prime and playing MVP-caliber ball for the Celtics, anchoring one of the best defenses of the decade.

He would feast on the likes of Birdman and Haslem. That Heat team was severely limited in terms of their frontcourt. LeBron did an incredible job filling in the blanks with his rebounding/versatile defense throughout the playoffs to cover this up, but those '08 Celtics were a great team. They'd find a way to exploit that weakness for sure, especially with a prime Garnett.


Well.
When you say it like that...

Just kidding lol, but yeah you know what my buttons are

Anyway, I gave it to the Heat in 7. Which is practically calling it a 51/49 coin toss. Celtics could definetly come away with it, my thought is just that in close cases like this, the superstars drag their team to victory.

[Doranku]

Well.
When you say it like that...

Just kidding lol, but yeah you know what my buttons are

Anyway, I gave it to the Heat in 7. Which is practically calling it a 51/49 coin toss. Celtics could definetly come away with it, my thought is just that in close cases like this, the superstars drag their team to victory.

You're probably right, especially with how the '08 Celtics played in the first two rounds of the playoffs. Never know when they might go into a mental lapse like that, can't do that against LeBron and company.

I'm probably a little biased since I had to watch the '08 Celtics slaughter my Lakers in the finals, but it would be interesting to see how a '13 LeBron would play against the '08 Celtics.

'08 LeBron had an incredible game 7, but outside of that he was abysmal against the Celtics defense. '13 LeBron certainly was much improved from his '08 version so it'd be interesting to see what he'd be capable of against that defense.

[Indian guy]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics

Uhh, you do remember that Bosh didn't play the first 5 games of that series, right? They were starting the likes of Turiaf, Joel Anthony and Haslem's corpse without him at center. Also, in no world are the 2012 Heat better than a healthy 2013 Heat team.

As far as the matchup's concerned, if the 2011 Heat, easily the Big 3's weakest version, took care of a darn good Boston team in 5 games that postseason, hard to imagine their best version ever losing to them.

Heat any day.

[Smoke117]

Uhh, you do remember that Bosh didn't play the first 5 games of that series, right? They were starting the likes of Turiaf, Joel Anthony and Haslem's corpse without him at center. Also, in no world are the 2012 Heat better than a healthy 2013 Heat team.

As far as the matchup's concerned, if the 2011 Heat, easily the Big 3's weakest version, took care of a darn good Boston team in 5 games that postseason, hard to imagine their best version ever losing to them.

Heat any day.

Comparing the 2011 Celtics to the 2008 Celtics...that's just ridiculous. the Big Three were all at an age when they joined together that there were significant drops in quality of their play as each year went by after 2009.

[tpols]

Uhh, you do remember that Bosh didn't play the first 5 games of that series, right? They were starting the likes of Turiaf, Joel Anthony and Haslem's corpse without him at center. Also, in no world are the 2012 Heat better than a healthy 2013 Heat team.

As far as the matchup's concerned, if the 2011 Heat, easily the Big 3's weakest version, took care of a darn good Boston team in 5 games that postseason, hard to imagine their best version ever losing to them.

Heat any day.

the '11 Heat were the first or second best team of that era.. vying with '13. merely a question of would you rather have a peak 19/9 Bosh in his comfort zone, and peak wade or downgraded versions of those two but better depth. Either way, making a judgement on the '08 Celtics based on what they were in '11 ?? absurd.

[Indian guy]

Comparing the 2011 Celtics to the 2008 Celtics...that's just ridiculous. the Big Three were all at an age when they joined together that there were significant drops in quality of their play as each year went by after 2009.

It's just hard for me buy the 2008 Celtics as this juggernaut when the playoffs were such a monumental struggle for them. They were a great team, but ultimately also a very flawed one. Mainly a PG who wasn't a threat to score, and all of their best scorers were jump shooters north of 30. They just had a very difficult time scoring against good playoff defense. So when matched up against a team with equivalent talent, I'm taking the one who has the best player any day. I mean, we do have the hindsight of knowing the Miami Heat beat a couple of still-darn good Celtics teams. And I'm just not buying this notion that the Big 3 had greatly declined by 2011. Certainly not statistically. Pierce and Ray Allen's numbers are identical in '08 and '11. Better in Ray Allen's case. KG was still giving you 17/10/53% + all world D in 2011 and Rondo was a lot better in '11 than he was in '08. They won 56 games in what was a really good EC that year. Despite all that, the weakest version of the Big 3 Heat teams beat them in 5 games.

[Milbuck]

I think both at their top level the Heat are better.

[SouBeachTalents]

the '11 Heat were the first or second best team of that era.. vying with '13. merely a question of would you rather have a peak 19/9 Bosh in his comfort zone, and peak wade or downgraded versions of those two but better depth. Either way, making a judgement on the '08 Celtics based on what they were in '11 ?? absurd.

The 2011 Heat are criminally underrated on this board. Admittedly poor depth, but LeBron & Wade were 2 of the 3-5 best players in the league and Bosh was putting up fantastic 3rd option production. They romped through the playoffs, beating actual legit Eastern teams like the Celtics and Bulls, and it took an inexplicable meltdown by LeBron to lose 2-3 razor thin games in the Finals and the series itself. If LeBron plays up to snuff they beat the Mavs in 4-5 games and imo are talked about as one of the best teams of the 2000's

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Boston had more depth, were tougher defenselessly and played up/down to their competition. They matchup VERY well with 2013 Miami.

Celts in 6 games.

[tpols]

The 2011 Heat are criminally underrated on this board. Admittedly poor depth, but LeBron & Wade were 2 of the 3-5 best players in the league and Bosh was putting up fantastic 3rd option production. They romped through the playoffs, beating actual legit Eastern teams like the Celtics and Bulls, and it took an inexplicable meltdown by LeBron to lose 2-3 razor thin games in the Finals and the series itself. If LeBron plays up to snuff they beat the Mavs in 4-5 games and imo are talked about as one of the best teams of the 2000's


agreed.. the '11 Heat team were the most "feared" version of them for me.. as an individual who was rooting against them the whole time .. they had a dominant vibe to them that made them feel untouchable until the last 5 minutes or so of game 2 in the Finals.. when every little thing started to go the opposite way for them.


every other version of the Heat was put on the ropes at an earlier point, and didnt feel like true world beaters.. squeakin by.

[BigKAT]

Boston had more depth, were tougher defenselessly and played up/down to their competition. They matchup VERY well with 2013 Miami.

Celts in 6 games.

I agree with the played down to their competition thing.
It's an ailment we've seen often in the NBA, with the Pacers in their ECF years and the Hawks (who went down a 2-1 to Brooklyn I think???)

But someone here pointed out that Rondo wasn't as good in 08', so keep that in mind. He was a big part of their later success.

[tpols]

I agree with the played down to their competition thing.
It's an ailment we've seen often in the NBA, with the Pacers in their ECF years and the Hawks (who went down a 2-1 to Brooklyn I think???)

But someone here pointed out that Rondo wasn't as good in 08', so keep that in mind. He was a big part of their later success.


yea but are you willing to trade an upgrade on rondo for spryness in KG, Pierce and Ray Allen ?? because that seems kind of silly..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I agree with the played down to their competition thing.
It's an ailment we've seen often in the NBA, with the Pacers in their ECF years and the Hawks (who went down a 2-1 to Brooklyn I think???)

But someone here pointed out that Rondo wasn't as good in 08', so keep that in mind. He was a big part of their later success.

Yeah it was pretty obvious in that ATL series (showed up at home and played uninterested on the road etc). Legendary teams always found ways to flip the "on" switch.

I personally always thought Rondo hindered the C's in that they relied TOO heavily in his playmaking, whereas the Boston BIG 3, at their absolute best, destroyed you in a variety of ways and did so by playing mostly off the ball.

BTW, I meant defensively...defenselessly and that verz of the C's is like an oxymoron on crack.

[Dragonyeuw]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics, who were probably 80% as good as the '08 Celtics.

'08 Celtics mop the floor with Miami in 5 assuming they have HCA with their 66 wins.

A 'worse' version of Lebron( 2008 compared to 2013) and the Cavs( clearly inferior to the Heat) took that team to 7 games. The 2013 Heat present tougher defense than any team the Celtics faced on the road to the finals, Lebron at the top of his game, Wade in his last 'prime' year, Bosh adjusted to his role, and good depth of role players( Chalmers, Allen, Battier, Mike Miller). Chris Anderson was a sparkplug for them off the bench. Heat in 6.

[Bankaii]

A better version of that Heat team BARELY beat the 2012 Celtics, who were probably 80% as good as the '08 Celtics.

'08 Celtics mop the floor with Miami in 5 assuming they have HCA with their 66 wins.
Tell me more how the 2012 Heat were better with a worse bench and no Bosh.
The only positive was that Wade was more healthy/consistent.
Kobetards:oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

2013 heat easily...people forget that the 2008 cavs played the 2008 celtics down to the wire and better than the 2008 lakers

[GrapeApe]

The 2011 Heat are criminally underrated on this board. Admittedly poor depth, but LeBron & Wade were 2 of the 3-5 best players in the league and Bosh was putting up fantastic 3rd option production. They romped through the playoffs, beating actual legit Eastern teams like the Celtics and Bulls, and it took an inexplicable meltdown by LeBron to lose 2-3 razor thin games in the Finals and the series itself. If LeBron plays up to snuff they beat the Mavs in 4-5 games and imo are talked about as one of the best teams of the 2000's

No doubt. From mid December, the 2011 Heat played at a near 70 win pace and were literally a few possessions from a 16-3 title run. They were in many ways a flawed team, but their top-end talent was as overwhelming as any team in history. It's amazing how 1 or 2 games (or bounces) can completely alter the historical perception of a team.

[Wally450]

Celtics were deeper IMO, end of prime Garnett would feast on Bosh. Can't count out LeBron and a healthy Wade though. Probably one of the better matchups Ive seen posted on this site.

[Bigsmoke]

Celtics were deeper IMO, end of prime Garnett would feast on Bosh. Can't count out LeBron and a healthy Wade though. Probably one of the better matchups Ive seen posted on this site.

deeper doesn't always mean better.

the Celtics in 2011 had 4 All-Stars with players likeJeff Green Glen Davis, Delonte West, and Nenad Krstic and lost to a Heat team who 4th best player was joel Anthony.

[Cold soul]

This would be instant classic of a series I got Boston in 7 games.

[BigKAT]

This would be instant classic of a series I got Boston in 7 games.

It really could go both ways. In my eyes I see it like this if each team has the final posesssion

Final posession Boston - Garnett Inbounds the ball to Pierce, Ray Allen off-the-ball cutting to try and get a shot, Pierce try to make his own while Garnett rushes to the post for some last chance put-back/rebound.

Final Posession Heat - Haslem inbounds the ball, Bosh stays outside while Haslem goes into the post to do the same rebounding thing, Bosh and Lebron pick and roll with wade cutting from the weak side just in case. Lebron either takes the shot or pass it to the pick and pop Bosh (2014 finals game 2, Bosh's game winning 3 for example from a Lebron pass) or Lebron goes all the way with the layup, with haslem bullying a path for him.

[tamaraw08]

It really could go both ways. In my eyes I see it like this if each team has the final posesssion

Final posession Boston - Garnett Inbounds the ball to Pierce, Ray Allen off-the-ball cutting to try and get a shot, Pierce try to make his own while Garnett rushes to the post for some last chance put-back/rebound.

Final Posession Heat - Haslem inbounds the ball, Bosh stays outside while Haslem goes into the post to do the same rebounding thing, Bosh and Lebron pick and roll with wade cutting from the weak side just in case. Lebron either takes the shot or pass it to the pick and pop Bosh (2014 finals game 2, Bosh's game winning 3 for example from a Lebron pass) or Lebron goes all the way with the layup, with haslem bullying a path for him.

What makes you so sure Lebron can just go all the way with the lay up just bec Bosh's guy sticks to him?
Boston led the league in defense that year not just bec of simple defensive schemes. Bear in mind that Thibs was FULLY FOCUSED on just the defensive side of the game. That Boston had James Posey, one of the most underrated defenders in the league. Easy to forget that Pierce was just 30 yrs old and was very focused on defense too. They also had PJ Brown at PF, remember him? Kendrik Perkins was just 23 yrs old back then.
Celtics was so potent defensively they held Lebron to 35.5FG%, 23% 3ptFG%, 5.28 turnovers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2008-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-cavaliers-vs-celtics.html

[BigKAT]

What makes you so sure Lebron can just go all the way with the lay up just bec Bosh's guy sticks to him?
Boston led the league in defense that year not just bec of simple defensive schemes. Bear in mind that Thibs was FULLY FOCUSED on just the defensive side of the game. That Boston had James Posey, one of the most underrated defenders in the league. Easy to forget that Pierce was just 30 yrs old and was very focused on defense too. They also had PJ Brown at PF, remember him? Kendrik Perkins was just 23 yrs old back then.
Celtics was so potent defensively they held Lebron to 35.5FG%, 23% 3ptFG%, 5.28 turnovers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2008-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-cavaliers-vs-celtics.html

I don't know much about PJ Brown but Perkins and Garnett definetly seem like a deterrent. But keep in mind that if they collapse on Lebron, Bosh is on the perimeter and Wade is on the weak side. I'm not saying it works. I just gave my prediction to what kind of moves these teams might go to.

[tamaraw08]

I don't know much about PJ Brown but Perkins and Garnett definetly seem like a deterrent. But keep in mind that if they collapse on Lebron, Bosh is on the perimeter and Wade is on the weak side. I'm not saying it works. I just gave my prediction to what kind of moves these teams might go to.

Have you checked Bosh's stats from the 3 pt line? I did.
2008, he shot 14.7% in that playoffs, has a career ave of 38.6%, even if he shot 40%, that's pretty low if the game is on the line.
Wade has a career ave of 28% from the 3pt line, 39% from the 10-23 feet,
You might have seen both these guys nail open jumpers before, but the stats speak for itself.
If indeed they are flawless with Lebron, then logic will tell you that they would have rode on that formula countless times and win at least 4 rings together.

[BigKAT]

Have you checked Bosh's stats from the 3 pt line? I did.
2008, he shot 14.7% in that playoffs, has a career ave of 38.6%, even if he shot 40%, that's pretty low if the game is on the line.
Wade has a career ave of 28% from the 3pt line, 39% from the 10-23 feet,
You might have seen both these guys nail open jumpers before, but the stats speak for itself.
If indeed they are flawless with Lebron, then logic will tell you that they would have rode on that formula countless times and win at least 4 rings together.


Yes.
But we're discussing the 2013 Heat my friend.
In which he shot 34% in the RS and 40% in the Playoffs.

[tamaraw08]

Yes.
But we're discussing the 2013 Heat my friend.
In which he shot 34% in the RS and 40% in the Playoffs.

Are you talking about the year they won it all and beat San Antonio where they needed the last sec 3 from Ray Allen to tie and eventually beat the Spurs at home?
Well, let me tell you that 2008 Boston (ranked 1st) was more superior in defense as compared to '13 Spurs which relied on 36 yr old Duncan and 35yr old Manu to defend. And INSPITE of that fact, Bosh was ZERO OF SIX from the 3pt line that finals. :eek:
Yes, Bosh hit a remarkable 40% from the 3pt line overall but that was against teams that don't defend the perimeter well.
Again you have failed to consider the level of competition/defense that Bosh had to face then. It is not a coincidence that BOTH Lebron and Kobe struggled shooting against the 08 Celtics. Fisher has a career 3pt % of nearly 40% in the playoffs, vs Boston, he shoots well below that.
Sorry for sounding like a broken record, if that play of pick and roll play with Lebron and Bosh were so effective, why then, did they NOT exploited and maximized the scheme so they don't need to rely on Allen to shoot and force OT?:confusedshrug:

[ralph_i_el]

I'd pay good money to see that series.

Will KG get in Bron and Bosh's heads? Who wins the wing matchups between Wade-Ray Allen/Pierce


I'm taking the Celtics. Although the defensive scheme they won with in '08 was advanced at the time and almost commonplace by 2013...

[Captvic]

2013 Heat easily. Lebron and scrubs almost beat the Celtics in 2008

[BigKAT]

I'd pay good money to see that series.

Will KG get in Bron and Bosh's heads? Who wins the wing matchups between Wade-Ray Allen/Pierce


I'm taking the Celtics. Although the defensive scheme they won with in '08 was advanced at the time and almost commonplace by 2013...

Kinda like the Suns Offense in 06' and today's offense?

[tamaraw08]

I'd pay good money to see that series.

Will KG get in Bron and Bosh's heads? Who wins the wing matchups between Wade-Ray Allen/Pierce


I'm taking the Celtics. Although the defensive scheme they won with in '08 was advanced at the time and almost commonplace by 2013...

Don't get me wrong, having a great defensive scheme is very important but it wouldn't have worked if they didn't have very good hardworking players who were totally sold out and committed in making it work.
Boston had James Posey back then, one of the most under rated defenders, even had Tony Allen sitting on the bench. KG, Pierce, Allen etc were a lot younger and quicker to their feet to shoot the gaps etc. PJ Brown was old but had the key basics to provide help.
I think of Mark Jackson when he first coached GSW, he declared that they will be a defensive force right away, it didn't happened until year 2, when everyone got wiser and healthier etc.