Most Influential Coach in a Championship run

[BigKAT]

Pretty simple.

Some people claim that some coachs deserve less credit for their rings then others.

I.E:
Tyron Lue could be said to not be that crucial to the win, much due to having Lebron and Kyrie playing out of their minds.

Phill Jackson could be said not to be that influential on their success in the 96-97-98 threepeat because he had the GOAT.

Doc Rivers could be said not to be that influential because he has won once with the Big 3 and didn't have much success past a finals appearence in 10.


On the opposite end:
One could say Popovich did much with 2014 Spurs squad with a past-past-past his prime Duncan and declining parker and Ginobili.

One could say that Larry Brown was very important since he won without a real superstar in 2004.

One could say that 1995 Rudy Tomjanovich was very influential in that championship due to the underdog nature of his team.


You got the hang of it ISH.
What do you think? What coachs overachieved the most? What Coachs could've been swapped with others and their teams would've still won?

[rmt]

Phil Jackson in 2000.

[Wally450]

Not a head coach but a lot of people give tom Thibodeau a lot of credit for the Celtics run in 2008. That defense clicked on all cylinders pretty much all season.

[jlip]

I like Larry Brown in 2004.

[BigNBAfan]

When the lakers and kings played each other back in the day, each substitution was KEY. I mean i cannot believe how pivotal some of those matchups were... even though it's a disgraced series it was still very much enjoyable.

[LAZERUSS]

Bill Sharman 1972.

Took over an aging and injury-riddled roster, and then RAN the league to death.

[iamgine]

Some coaches like Phil Jackson are influential particularly on motivating and handling the player egos. It's a long process, in which the result might not be attributed to the coach. Who's to say Phil Jackson wasn't the main reason Dennis Rodman wasn't a distraction? Who's to say Phil wasn't the main reason Kobe and Shaq stayed as long as they did? This kind of thing is very important for a team's well being. It is also impossible to measure.

[SouBeachTalents]

Larry Brown 2004
Pop 2014

[ralph_i_el]

Pop's most recent (2014?) run with the Spurs was masterful.

He spent the entire season managing his line-ups so they would be competitive while resting his starters. Succeeded in getting the maximum out of players that were undervalued by other teams. Goes on to make the Heat look absolutely foolish

[qrich]

From what I've seen, my top 3 goes, in no order, Larry Brown (04), Rick Carlisle and the Spurs last ring.

[RedBlackAttack]

Pop's most recent (2014?) run with the Spurs was masterful.

He spent the entire season managing his line-ups so they would be competitive while resting his starters. Succeeded in getting the maximum out of players that were undervalued by other teams. Goes on to make the Heat look absolutely foolish
First one that popped in my mind.

That whole season was executed beautifully. It was to the point where I was telling friends who are only casual basketball fans that they had to make it a point to sit down and watch what the Spurs were doing.

Duncan was still very good in 2014 and impacted the game way beyond whatever his statistics were, but that wasn't a group that had one of the best 3-5 players in the league that they could lean on during a rough patch. Most championship teams have at least one of those guys, if not multiple players.

The Spurs summarily executed a still very good Miami team in The Finals with damn near perfect basketball for 48 minutes a night.

In order to make that come together the way it did at the perfect time, Popovich not only had to do his thing with the Xs and Os, having everyone buy-in completely, etc ... he also had to be the puppet-master in knowing when to sit guys out and how much to give each night as the season wore on.

It's a fine line you have to walk, especially when you're relying on a team of high-end role players, so that they're all in-sync and healthy at the right time.

Pop has done some amazing coaching jobs in his three decades with the Spurs, but I don't think 2014 will ever be topped. And, I'm not sure I've ever seen a better prepared team. It was just the perfect coaching job.

[SouBeachTalents]

First one that popped in my mind.

That whole season was executed beautifully. It was to the point where I was telling friends who are only casual basketball fans that they had to make it a point to sit down and watch what the Spurs were doing.

Duncan was still very good in 2014 and impacted the game way beyond whatever his statistics were, but that wasn't a group that had one of the best 3-5 players in the league that they could lean on during a rough patch. Most championship teams have at least one of those guys, if not multiple players.

The Spurs summarily executed a still very good Miami team in The Finals with damn near perfect basketball for 48 minutes a night.

In order to make that come together the way it did at the perfect time, Popovich not only had to do his thing with the Xs and Os, having everyone buy-in completely, etc ... he also had to be the puppet-master in knowing when to sit guys out and how much to give each night as the season wore on.

It's a fine line you have to walk, especially when you're relying on a team of high-end role players, so that they're all in-sync and healthy at the right time.

Pop has done some amazing coaching jobs in his three decades with the Spurs, but I don't think 2014 will ever be topped. And, I'm not sure I've ever seen a better prepared team. It was just the perfect coaching job.

That and having them recover from arguably the most painful defeat in NBA history. A loss like that can carry over into the next season, and more often than not it does

[Real14]

Lue? Are you serious man??:lol

[RunWithThePack3]

Thibs in 2019

[SCdac]

Rick Carlisle for the Mavs was impressive and deserves a good amount of credit in pulling them through what Don Nelson and Avery Johnson couldn't do. Getting the most out of his players, dealing with injuries, and taking advantage of matchups.

[bizil]

I would say Larry Brown in 2004. They had four All Star caliber guys BUT no SUPERSTAR! They were one of the rare teams to win a title without a superstar. And they put it together on the fly with Sheed joining them after the season started. If they drafted Melo instead of Darko, they could have been won multiple titles. The only thing they were missing was a legit alpha dog.

[SCdac]

At the end of the day, alot of championship rosters have the perfect combination of star power, depth, veteran presence, wildcards, and great coaching. That mixture varies from team to team. For instance, in 1999 popovich was still new as the head coach (was an assistant to Larry Brown at one point), the Spurs had great veteran presence and great star power. Duncan was an instant star and Robinson even post-surgery still had "it". Yet their starting lineup was full of 30-somethings. Sean Elliott (30), Avery (33), Elie (35), Robinson (33), and then young Duncan. That experience and leadership paid off. Avery hit big shots, Elliott hit big shots, and Mario Elie was sort of the Spurs' Bruce Bowen before they got Bruce Bowen. But at the same time you could say they would never have done it without Duncan beasting and Pop's guidance. The Mavs of '11 too benefited from veteran presence, Jason Kidd headed his own team to back to back Finals at one point and Shawn Marion with the Suns was no stranger to the playoffs. Dirk was hungry for a title and Carlisle managed everything so perfectly.

[Vragrant]

I like Larry Brown in 2004.

Bingo. The 04 Pistons are considered an outlier for a championship team (no superstar).

[RoundMoundOfReb]

LeBron James in 2016.

[BigKAT]

At the end of the day, alot of championship rosters have the perfect combination of star power, depth, veteran presence, wildcards, and great coaching. That mixture varies from team to team. For instance, in 1999 popovich was still new as the head coach (was an assistant to Larry Brown at one point), the Spurs had great veteran presence and great star power. Duncan was an instant star and Robinson even post-surgery still had "it". Yet their starting lineup was full of 30-somethings. Sean Elliott (30), Avery (33), Elie (35), Robinson (33), and then young Duncan. That experience and leadership paid off. Avery hit big shots, Elliott hit big shots, and Mario Elie was sort of the Spurs' Bruce Bowen before they got Bruce Bowen. But at the same time you could say they would never have done it without Duncan beasting and Pop's guidance. The Mavs of '11 too benefited from veteran presence, Jason Kidd headed his own team to back to back Finals at one point and Shawn Marion with the Suns was no stranger to the playoffs. Dirk was hungry for a title and Carlisle managed everything so perfectly.

Obviously there are a myriad of reasons for winning a championship.
Everything from Health, Luck, Veterans in the Locker room, hunger of your superstar, clutch shots, coaching staff, referee's calls, well timed injuries or badly timed injuries to the quality of the hotel in which the away team is staying.

Everything factors in.
But in terms of Coachs, which one do you think had the bigest % of the pie?
Which one was the most important?

I definetly think having a player like Kidd, Duncan and Pierce benefits you on a more then just statstical level, also their experience and what not and mentality of 'I've been there, I know what needs to be done.'

Anyway, I see Larry Brown getting lots of love here, and also Phill jackson for manuvering the Ego's and what not.

No doubt that Phill Jackson helped Shaq become his best possible version, but I still think Rick Carlilse might just be the most influential championship coach in recent time. With all due respect to Kidd, Dirk, Terry and Chandler doing their work so well, I think it's his coaching that made the difference between another Dirk flop in the playoff and the peak of his career.

[SCdac]

Obviously there are a myriad of reasons for winning a championship.
Everything from Health, Luck, Veterans in the Locker room, hunger of your superstar, clutch shots, coaching staff, referee's calls, well timed injuries or badly timed injuries to the quality of the hotel in which the away team is staying.

Everything factors in.
But in terms of Coachs, which one do you think had the bigest % of the pie?
Which one was the most important?

I definetly think having a player like Kidd, Duncan and Pierce benefits you on a more then just statstical level, also their experience and what not and mentality of 'I've been there, I know what needs to be done.'

Anyway, I see Larry Brown getting lots of love here, and also Phill jackson for manuvering the Ego's and what not.

No doubt that Phill Jackson helped Shaq become his best possible version, but I still think Rick Carlilse might just be the most influential championship coach in recent time. With all due respect to Kidd, Dirk, Terry and Chandler doing their work so well, I think it's his coaching that made the difference between another Dirk flop in the playoff and the peak of his career.

It's really tough to say. I'm very much "it's a players league" kind of person. I think Carlisle deserves a mention in recent years. Pop has done a great job last 4 years, but I actually credit Spurs depth (having Diaw, Ginobili, Mills, etc, come off the bench is priceless) and star power (Kawhi was the first lottery-esque pick Spurs acquired in near two decades - and he's a bonafide star however young) as much as anything. Tim Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Kawhi even if they're collectively old was really damn good. Tim Duncan cumulatively played more minutes than any Spur that last championship season, that's saying something. Not a diss to Pop but he's got a great staff too. He deserves credit for sure. He's a don and HOF coach. But watching other coaches "do more with less" is impressive. The way Larry Brown turned the Pistons into a defensive powerhouse was amazing, individually those players may have not been as great as the sum total. Sheed was a headcase and Ben Wallace on the Wizards or Bulls or Cavs was just another defensive player more or less. Chauncey and Rip never really made big waves on other teams. But those 2003-2005 Pistons were something else. They were one Game 7 away from being back to back champions (is one way of looking at)

[Gotterdammerung]

...[snip]... The way Larry Brown turned the Pistons into a defensive powerhouse was amazing, individually those players may have not been as great as the sum total. Sheed was a headcase and Ben Wallace on the Wizards or Bulls or Cavs was just another defensive player more or less. Chauncey and Rip never really made big waves on other teams. But those 2003-2005 Pistons were something else. They were one Game 7 away from being back to back champions (is one way of looking at)

More like one fourth quarter in Game 7 away, because they were up by 9 at that point. :biggums:

[SCdac]

More like one fourth quarter in Game 7 away, because they were up by 9 at that point. :biggums:

I hear ya man. Duncan and Ginobili came up big in the 4th though. Spurs weren't undeserving so it's not a huge shock, but for real, it was one of the closest Finals series of the last ~10 years of basketball

[tpols]

Pop has done a great job last 4 years, but I actually credit Spurs depth (having Diaw, Ginobili, Mills, etc, come off the bench is priceless) and star power (Kawhi was the first lottery-esque pick Spurs acquired in near two decades - and he's a bonafide star however young) as much as anything.


kawhi averaged 14/7/2 for the 2014 championship.. '04 Detroit pistons had 3 or 4 guys with as much impact as leonard did.. he's grown in recent years to more, but what Pop did with that squad, that year, with that brutal playoff line up was nothing short of coaching perfection. it's between him and larry brown for me.

[SCdac]

kawhi averaged 14/7/2 for the 2014 championship.. '04 Detroit pistons had 3 or 4 guys with as much impact as leonard did.. he's grown in recent years to more, but what Pop did with that squad, that year, with that brutal playoff line up was nothing short of coaching perfection. it's between him and larry brown for me.

Averaged 18 ppg (.61 FG%) in the finals though

Averaged 24 ppg (.69 FG%) in the last three games of the Finals

Earned himself the FMVP at the age of 22 once Pop got into his face mid-Finals about being a scorer

Averaged 21 ppg (.51 FG%) last season at the age of 24... was 2nd in MVP voting to Stephen Curry

I think it's fair to say Kawhi is no fluke and not simply a Pop product (in his draft he was projected to go as far as 9, 10, 11, etc... he fell to the Spurs via trade at 15)

had he been drafted to a worse team where he'd shoulder more of a workload he probably would have been scoring and averaging more early on... On the Spurs it's been a slow, steady process, albeit benefiting

[SCdac]

and I didn't even mention Kawhi's defensive impact.... the guy is a star.... if not a "super star" (I don't throw around that label as much as others)