LeBron will likely surpass Kareem Abdul Jabbar this season

[Lebron23]

And he's on the right path. Kareem was 32 yrs.old when he won his 2nd NBA title in 1980. And LeBron would be 32 yrs.old in the 2017 NBA Finals. I have Kareem at 2a and LeBron at 2b.

Hopefully LeBron also surpass him as the all time regular season scorer.

[AintNoSunshine]

Do you just assume Lebron will win either the MVP or the title? Because if he wins neither why would he move up the ladder?

[Lebron23]

Do you just assume Lebron will win either the MVP or the title? Because if he wins neither why would he move up the ladder?


I can see him winning his 5th MVP this season. He's still the favorite to win the Finals MVP if the Cavs beat the Warriors again in the Finals.

He's still the best player in the NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

Kareem is a 6 time champion, 6 time MVP, and the all time scoring leader. Even if we act like only 3 of Kareems rings "count" since he wasnt the best player after that(though he was finals mvp at 38) 3 and 6 and the all time scoring lead is probably still greater than 4 and 5. At best Lebron could tie his accomplishments....if...we pretend a lot of them didnt happen.

[aj1987]

Kareem is a 6 time champion, 6 time MVP, and the all time scoring leader. Even if we act like only 3 of Kareems rings "count" since he wasnt the best player after that(though he was finals mvp at 38) 3 and 6 and the all time scoring lead is probably still greater than 4 and 5. At best Lebron could tie his accomplishments....if...we pretend a lot of them didnt happen.
I can see no argument for KAJ over LeBron, if LeBron wins his 4th Ring and FMVP this season. Simply put, LeBron was never carried to a ring. KAJ was. Right now, KAJ is far superior to LeBron though.

[Kblaze8855]

Kareem is a couple months past his 40th birthday here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwr0ceF-Jtk


Dropping 32/6/4 blocks on 70+% shooting in only 29 minutes to win his 5th ring.

Playing till you are 42 and therefore eventually....not being a superstar anymore....doesnt make you worse at basketball.

Being "Carried" or not when youre 39-42 doesnt have a thing to do with your ability to play the game when you were still the player in question. Kareem proved himself a thousand times over.

He wasnt any worse because accountants stole his money and he had to keep playing.

[ClipperRevival]

If LeBron wins the ring and FMVP this year against GSW, I would have no problem putting him ahead of KAJ. That would be:

4 MVP
4 FVP
4 rings

Rarified air, only surpassed by MJ and Russell.

[JT123]

Kareem is a couple months past his 40th birthday here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwr0ceF-Jtk


Dropping 32/6/4 blocks on 70+% shooting in only 29 minutes to win his 5th ring.

Playing till you are 42 and therefore eventually....not being a superstar anymore....doesnt make you worse at basketball.

Being "Carried" or not when youre 39-42 doesnt have a thing to do with your ability to play the game when you were still the player in question. Kareem proved himself a thousand times over.

He wasnt any worse because accountants stole his money and he had to keep playing.
Mr nostalgia at it again I see. :rolleyes:

First Bird is better than Lebron, now Kareem is better? :biggums: :oldlol:

Is there any 80s star who isn't better than Lebron in your eyes? :sleeping

[AintNoSunshine]

I can see him winning his 5th MVP this season. He's still the favorite to win the Finals MVP if the Cavs beat the Warriors again in the Finals.

He's still the best player in the NBA.


Huge huge IF. But if he somehow does, that would be the greatest feat in basketball history. Depends on how he affects the series with his performance, a title this year would catapult him to top 2. But again, huge huge IF.

[juju151111]

Kareem is a couple months past his 40th birthday here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwr0ceF-Jtk


Dropping 32/6/4 blocks on 70+% shooting in only 29 minutes to win his 5th ring.

Playing till you are 42 and therefore eventually....not being a superstar anymore....doesnt make you worse at basketball.

Being "Carried" or not when youre 39-42 doesnt have a thing to do with your ability to play the game when you were still the player in question. Kareem proved himself a thousand times over.

He wasnt any worse because accountants stole his money and he had to keep playing.
Kareem wasn't the best player on the 87 Lakers which was the OP point. Why did you just bring up some random game. Kobe had a great game in 2000 finals too. Why you never address the actual points is beyond.

[Smoke117]

:yaohappy:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Too bad baby Bron will likely descend past Oscar Robertson after he loses a 5th finals :roll:

Good hypothetical though OP!

[FKAri]

Why do you put so much stock into "greatness" and accolades? At the end of the day KAJ was just a better baller. Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now. This should be the only way to look at it. This attempt to make something as inherently subjective as a best basketball players of all time list into something objective is silly.

[Nilocon165]

FreezingTSmoove is such a retarded fakkot :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

Mr nostalgia at it again I see. :rolleyes:

First Bird is better than Lebron, now Kareem is better? :biggums: :oldlol:

Is there any 80s star who isn't better than Lebron in your eyes? :sleeping

Wait. That idiot actually said Bird was better than LeBron?:biggums:
I don't think Larry Bird himself would argue that at this point. I'm with AJ was well. I don't see what argument kareem has over lebron is lebron wins another fmvp to make it 4 rings as lead dog - the most besides MJ in the post-merger era.

Lebron's vorp, rapm and cumulative stats are only going to increase as well. He's going to end the following season as the all time leading playoff scorer which matters a hell of a lot more than the regular season total points count. Kareem can keep that. We focus on the big time.:rockon:

[Mr Feeny]

Kareem wasn't the best player on the 87 Lakers which was the OP point. Why did you just bring up some random game. Kobe had a great game in 2000 finals too. Why you never address the actual points is beyond.

Silly, isn't it? It's like talking to a fish.

[jayfan]

No.




.

[Kblaze8855]

Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now.

As simple as that is....people have a lot of trouble with it.

Imagine if John Starks hits the jumper to win the Knicks the title in game 6 in 94. Some of these dudes would actually believe Patrick Ewing was better at basketball than they currently do.

[Mr Feeny]

I'd like to point out that Lebron is 2nd all time in PER while kareem is 12th.
Lebron is 1st all time in VORP and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron is 1st all time in win shares and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron (in 12 months time ) will be the all time leading nba scorer in the playoffs - you know, the stage that counts.
Lebron already has more rings as undisputed lead dog than kareem ever did.
Lebron will also end up as number 2-3 in the all time assists playoff list in ADDITION to being the all time top scorer there.
Lebron will be 2nd highest finals scorer all time behind Jerry West, and comfortably ahead of kareem who played in more finals.

[jayfan]

I'd like to point out that Lebron is 2nd all time in PER while kareem is 12th.
Lebron is 1st all time in VORP and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron is 1st all time in win shares and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron (in 12 months time ) will be the all time leading nba scorer in the playoffs - you know, the stage that counts.
Lebron already has more rings as undisputed lead dog than kareem ever did.
Lebron will also end up as number 2-3 in the all time assists playoff list in ADDITION to being the all time top scorer there.
Lebron will be 2nd highest finals scorer all time behind Jerry West, and comfortably ahead of kareem who played in more finals.

On how many more shots?

Chucker.

.

[Mr Feeny]

On how many more shots?

Chucker.

.

56.7 % TS. Pretty much Kareem's career mark, while playing as a perimeter player rather than a center who took 2 foot shot and dunks in a no-defense 80's like kareem:lol
He's also assisted many more baskets that Kareem and will surpass him having played MANY less games and seasons:roll:

[Euroleague]

LeBron will likely surpass Kareem Abdul Jabbar this season

https://media4.giphy.com/media/l0G18lMKSLQ4wXToI/200.gif#38

[AintNoSunshine]

As simple as that is....people have a lot of trouble with it.

Imagine if John Starks hits the jumper to win the Knicks the title in game 6 in 94. Some of these dudes would actually believe Patrick Ewing was better at basketball than they currently do.

:facepalm Shocking this coming from a poster like you.

You don't think accolades affects a player's ranking?

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron is better than Kareem. Let's be honest.

[egokiller]

Why do you put so much stock into "greatness" and accolades? At the end of the day KAJ was just a better baller. Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now. This should be the only way to look at it. This attempt to make something as inherently subjective as a best basketball players of all time list into something objective is silly.

The irony is that the only true way to do this is by the eye test and when you have people saying Lebron is better than players they've never even seen play, their opinion doesn't hold any weight. The reason why they do this is because they have personal issues and shortcomings in their life, so they try to compensate for it by imagining that the star of their era is more than he really is to justify their fan hood. The reality of it is that I've never seen KAJ play, so why the hell would I ever say that Lebron is better than him or going to be better than him based on some stats which are 95% meaningless. It gets even more ludicrous when the person making the claim has never even seen a live NBA game. This shit needs to stop.

[aj1987]

Why do you put so much stock into "greatness" and accolades? At the end of the day KAJ was just a better baller. Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now. This should be the only way to look at it. This attempt to make something as inherently subjective as a best basketball players of all time list into something objective is silly.
Let's look at it this way. LeBron is easier to build around than KAJ. Just give him a bunch of 3&D guys and one good 2nd option. He will deliver you a ring. KAJ needed the #1 GOAT PG and the #2 GOAT PG to win. With a plethora of other great players.

The nostalgia is absolutely ruining basketball discussion.


The irony is that the only true way to do this is by the eye test and when you have people saying Lebron is better than players they've never even seen play, their opinion doesn't hold any weight. The reason why they do this is because they have personal issues and shortcomings in their life, so they try to compensate for it by imagining that the star of their era is more than he really is to justify their fan hood. The reality of it is that I've never seen KAJ play, so why the hell would I ever say that Lebron is better than him or going to be better than him based on some stats which are 95% meaningless. It gets even more ludicrous when the person making the claim has never even seen a live NBA game. This shit needs to stop.
There are two types of trolls, altfag. Clever ones and the ones who are retarded beyond any measure. You're the latter.

Please drink a jug of bleach.

[Kblaze8855]

:facepalm Shocking this coming from a poster like you.

You don't think accolades affects a player's ranking?

A lot of things impact a players rankings....

But how good at basketball you are and where history ranks you arent all that similar.

You can rank Bob cousy where you want. hes a 6 time champ and an MVP. But hes not starting over Mark Price on the same team. Once you accept that...and that you are asking two entirely different questions? It really should clear up the confusion.

But often it doesnt.

When you lay it out like that people have no problem with it. There is best....there is...most accomplished. Clearly not the same. All agree. Better player...is not always the best combo of accolades.

But give it 10 minutes and put it in another topic? Right back to not being able to discern the difference.

[egokiller]

Let's look at it this way. LeBron is easier to build around than KAJ. Just give him a bunch of 3&D guys and one good 2nd option. He will deliver you a ring. KAJ needed the #1 GOAT PG and the #2 GOAT PG to win. With a plethora of other great players.

The nostalgia is absolutely ruining basketball discussion.


There are two types of trolls, altfag. Clever ones and the ones who are retarded beyond any measure. You're the latter.

Please drink a jug of bleach.

You are exactly the type of poster I'm talking about. You never watched KAJ play a single game, and make claims of "nostalgia" to support your weak argument. Is piss poor. Come back with new material. Lebron diminishes the productivity of all-stars by forcing them to be a player that takes spot up jumpers.

Watch closely this season on how GSW implements Durant into their offense. Sure everyone will get less shots, but they will be doing more than just standing away from the basket waiting for someone to kick it out to them.

[aj1987]

A lot of things impact a players rankings....

But how good at basketball you are and where history ranks you arent all that similar.

You can rank Bob cousy where you want. hes a 6 time champ and an MVP. But hes not starting over Mark Price on the same team. Once you accept that...and that you are asking two entirely different questions? It really should clear up the confusion.

But often it doesnt.

When you lay it out like that people have no problem with it. There is best....there is...most accomplished. Clearly not the same. All agree. Better player...is not always the best combo of accolades.

But give it 10 minutes and put it in another topic? Right back to not being able to discern the difference.
How are you this dense? Put prime LeBron in ANY era and he'd be top 2 at worst. Your Cousy example is just dumb AF.


No, you are only focusing on one small dynamic. One way of looking at it is that lebron diminishes the productivity of all-stars by forcing them to be a player that takes spot up jumpers.

Watch closely this season on how GSW implements Durant into their offense. Sure everyone will get less shots, but they will be doing more than just standing away from the basket waiting for someone to kick it out to them.
Yeah, because LeBron was the reason at to why Love, Wade, Bosh, and Irving were injured. Players who played with LeBron had their most efficient seasons ever and midst importantly, they won rings.

Also, unlike Chokebe, LeBron overcomes 1-3 deficits, instead of coli a 3-1 lead.

Retard.

[Smoke117]

LeBron is better than Kareem. Let's be honest.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Upset-Michael-Jordan-Laughs-to-Himself.gif

[Kblaze8855]

So Bob Cousy is in fact better at basketball than Mark Price? Or are you failing to grasp the point that makes? Are you somehow mixing Lebron....into that?

[egokiller]

Yeah, because LeBron was the reason at to why Love, Wade, Bosh, and Irving were injured.

Injured? I'm talking about when everyone is playing. :roll:

Put lebron in any era and anyone who's actually watched KAJ will probably tell you that KAJ would do better. At least KAJ wouldn't be getting styled on by Jason Terry.

Now stop trying to make claims that one player is better than another when you never watched said player in question play a single game. It makes you come off as an idiot.

[juju151111]

A lot of things impact a players rankings....

But how good at basketball you are and where history ranks you arent all that similar.

You can rank Bob cousy where you want. hes a 6 time champ and an MVP. But hes not starting over Mark Price on the same team. Once you accept that...and that you are asking two entirely different questions? It really should clear up the confusion.

But often it doesnt.

When you lay it out like that people have no problem with it. There is best....there is...most accomplished. Clearly not the same. All agree. Better player...is not always the best combo of accolades.

But give it 10 minutes and put it in another topic? Right back to not being able to discern the difference.
I understand that point, but you rank Bird over LJ because of intangibles not how good they are. Also, how much those playoffs performance impact your ranking.

[tpols]

As simple as that is....people have a lot of trouble with it.

Imagine if John Starks hits the jumper to win the Knicks the title in game 6 in 94. Some of these dudes would actually believe Patrick Ewing was better at basketball than they currently do.


that's life. everybody is judged on results, more or less.

[Kblaze8855]

I understand that point, but you rank Bird over LJ because of intangibles not how good they are. Also, how much those playoffs performance impact your ranking.


You calling skills intangible is the heart of the problem. Not being able to measure passing or ability to make a contested jumper under duress doesnt make it some fully abstract concept like heart.



that's life. everybody is judged on results, more or less.

Thats true. Because its easy. A moron can tell me a guy who won ____ is the best because of it. Thats just not what im looking to discuss.

[juju151111]

You calling skills intangible is the heart of the problem. Not being able to measure passing or ability to make a contested jumper under duress doesnt make it some fully abstract concept like heart.




Thats true. Because its easy. A moron can tell me a guy who won ____ is the best because of it. Thats just not what im looking to discuss.
You didnt answer my question.

[plowking]

Why do you put so much stock into "greatness" and accolades? At the end of the day KAJ was just a better baller. Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now. This should be the only way to look at it. This attempt to make something as inherently subjective as a best basketball players of all time list into something objective is silly.

Actually Lebron is the better basketball player.

Never saw Kareem carrying teams like Bron to the finals. Not like his conference was very hard either. Dude was playing 39 win teams in the conference finals.

[Kblaze8855]

Actually Lebron is the better basketball player.

Never saw Kareem carrying teams like Bron to the finals. Not like his conference was very hard either. Dude was playing 39 win teams in the conference finals.

Kareem one playoff series:

Game 1: 27/16/7/3 (10/? FG)
Game 2: 40/19/3/9 (18/32 FG)
Game 3: 28/14/7/4 (12/20)
Game 4: 41/18/3/0 (15/?)
Game 5: 45/18/3/3 (16/28)
Game 6: 43/20/3/3 (17/25)
Game 7: 36/26/4/1 (14/26)


They lost.

What was he supposed to do?

This is from the first half alone of a game in a series they got swept:



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CircularHauntingInsect-size_restricted.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImperfectDeafeningIndiancow-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GentleClearIberianbarbel-size_restricted.gif




They start triple teaming him....teammates cant take advantage:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PastFarKillerwhale-size_restricted.gif







Is he really worse at basketball because his guards turn it over back to back to back in a close playoff game and give up a game sealing run?





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngelicDismalAllosaurus-size_restricted.gif



Note Jerry West(the coach at the time) looking on in disgust.



What should Kareem have done?

At one point he gave Walton(his chief rival) 98 points, 27 rebounds, 17 assists, and 11 blocks over 2 games. He totally works him. But in a series his team gets outplayed no matter how much he personally outplays him by.

That not doing enough carrying? Or we call it what it is?

Kareem was Lebron in Cleveland....for quite a while. He didnt always have Magic.

[GrapeApe]

Wait, there are people who think Lebron is better than Kareem?

Peak Kareem put up 35/17/5 on 57% (and likely 4-5 bpg).

He had a playoff run of 35/18/4/4/2 on 61%. He had championship runs of 27/17/3/4-5 on 52% and 32/12/3/4/1 on 57%.

In terms of resume, if Lebron wins another title, MVP, and FMVP he will he nipping at Kareem's heels. However, peak for peak Kareem is higher.

[Big164]

LOL @ Lebron or Kareem being #2 in a Universe where 50.4 happened


http://rs304.pbsrc.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/02%20Stilt%20VS%20Alcindor/2-1.gif~c200
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-21-2015/bWYe9P.gif

[yeaaaman]

I'd like to point out that Lebron is 2nd all time in PER while kareem is 12th.
Lebron is 1st all time in VORP and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron is 1st all time in win shares and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron (in 12 months time ) will be the all time leading nba scorer in the playoffs - you know, the stage that counts.
Lebron already has more rings as undisputed lead dog than kareem ever did.
Lebron will also end up as number 2-3 in the all time assists playoff list in ADDITION to being the all time top scorer there.
Lebron will be 2nd highest finals scorer all time behind Jerry West, and comfortably ahead of kareem who played in more finals.

I don't think it really makes sense to use averages of a player still playing (particularly while still in their prime) to compare to players who have long retired. Those types of comparisons would make a lot more sense once the active player has retired, and their overall career averages have leveled off to where it is representative of their entire career.

Once any player has those non-prime years when they're career is on a downswing, their overall numbers are obviously going to be affected. I remember when Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady were both top 5 all-time playoff scoring average. Once they started to tail off, guess what, they aren't anywhere near that list anymore.

[Asukal]

LOL @ Lebron or Kareem being #2 in a Universe where 50.4 happened


http://rs304.pbsrc.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/02%20Stilt%20VS%20Alcindor/2-1.gif~c200
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-21-2015/bWYe9P.gif

11 rings to 2 also happened :rolleyes:

[Mr Feeny]

I don't think it really makes sense to use averages of a player still playing (particularly while still in their prime) to compare to players who have long retired. Those types of comparisons would make a lot more sense once the active player has retired, and their overall career averages have leveled off to where it is representative of their entire career.

Once any player has those non-prime years when they're career is on a downswing, their overall numbers are obviously going to be affected. I remember when Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady were both top 5 all-time playoff scoring average. Once they started to tail off, guess what, they aren't anywhere near that list anymore.Oh they're all total/cumulative stats. When I say lebron is already the all time vorp and win shares leader in both the regular season and the playoffs, that's only going to increase.

Fair point with regards to per and ws/48 but the gap is so drastically wide that there's no way kareem could end up higher than lebron even with an extended decline for lebron. He's not just ahead of kareem in these, he's so significantly ahead.

But yes, it would be more interesting to compare averages once both careers are over. But that's why I shied away from using regular season or playoff scoring averages or ws/48 for that matter. I'd rather wait till his career is over.
Having said that,even with all those - again - Lebron is so far ahead that he'll in all likelihood finish ahead of kareem even taking a decline into account.

[Ca$H]

Bran is merely a glorified male prostitute.

[Lebron23]

Bran is merely a glorified male prostitute.


How does LeBron @$$ taste? Never root for the Warriors again.

[NumberSix]

How does LeBron @$$ taste?
Like Hillary Clinton's dick.

[chazzy]

So he's the favorite to win this year? Good to know

[bond10]

Lebronites starter guide:

1. Use statistical data to compare every player.
a. always remind everyone Lebron beat a 73-9 team (best team ever)
b. always remind everyone Lebron led in all statistical categories in the finals.
2. Ignore context and objective eye-test ("The Decision", 2011, Ray Allen, 2015, letting opposing team's defender Leonard/Iguodala get FMVP).
3. Ignore starting NBA age when comparing players by age.

[Lebron23]

Lebronites starter guide:

1. Use statistical data to compare every player.
a. always remind everyone Lebron beat a 73-9 team (best team ever)
b. always remind everyone Lebron led in all statistical categories in the finals.
2. Ignore context and objective eye-test ("The Decision", 2011, Ray Allen, 2015, letting opposing team's defender Leonard/Iguodala get FMVP).


Shut up. Lebron > Kobe until the end of time.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Lebron beat a 73-9 team (best team ever)
Lebron led in all statistical categories in the finals.
WHAT?????!!! That's impossible...

LeBron's the GOAT and that's the GOAT basketball accomplishment.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

WHAT?????!!! That's impossible...

LeBron's the GOAT and that's the GOAT basketball accomplishment.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

WHAT?????!!! That's impossible...

LeBron's the GOAT and that's the GOAT basketball accomplishment.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Omg that doesnt seem possible!:eek:thats it lebron is goat:bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Oh they're all total/cumulative stats. When I say lebron is already the all time vorp and win shares leader , that's only going to increase.

Fair point with regards to per and ws/48 but the gap is so drastically wide that there's no way kareem could end up higher than lebron even with an extended decline for lebron. He's not just ahead of kareem in these, he's so significantly ahead.

But yes, it would be more interesting to compare averages once both careers are over. But that's why I shied away from using regular season or playoff scoring averages or ws/48 for that matter. I'd rather wait till his career is over.
Having said that,even with all those - again - Lebron is so far ahead that he'll in all likelihood finish ahead of kareem even taking a decline into account.

Maybe I should have posted some numbers as well. My bad:

Career w/s (cumulative ) in the playoffs:

LeBron 41.58 in 13 years
Kareem 35.56 in 20 years

Vorp (cumulative)

108.61 in 13 years
86.03 in 20 years

These will only increase as time goes on.

[Big164]

Oh they're all total/cumulative stats. When I say lebron is already the all time vorp and win shares leader in both the regular season and the playoffs, that's only going to increase.

Fair point with regards to per and ws/48 but the gap is so drastically wide that there's no way kareem could end up higher than lebron even with an extended decline for lebron. He's not just ahead of kareem in these, he's so significantly ahead.



What about chamberlain?

How about this... If Lebron can make it to age 36 without dipping below WC, in Career PER, I'll give him the crown...

[ClipperRevival]

What about chamberlain?

How about this... If Lebron can make it to age 36 without dipping below WC, in Career PER, I'll give him the crown...

I was listening to WOJ's podcast today where he interviewed Rod Thorn. He asked how good was Wilt. And he said Wilt was a specimen the league had never seen before or since, with his track and field exploits. But he ended with saying that he lacked that fire, that killer instinct and had he possessed it, he would've won every year. But he didn't. And that's why he has no case for GOAT. Because he didn't maximize his talents. The worst thing you can do is NOT maximize your talents. That was Wilt.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I was listening to WOJ's podcast today where he interviewed Rod Thorn. He asked how good was Wilt. And he said Wilt was a specimen the league had never seen before or since, with his track and field exploits. But he ended with saying that he lacked that fire, that killer instinct and had he possessed it, he would've won every year. But he didn't. And that's why he has no case for GOAT. Because he didn't maximize his talents. The worst thing you can do is NOT maximize your talents. That was Wilt.
We all know this ... he was known to Wilt.

[fourkicks44]

As simple as that is....people have a lot of trouble with it.

Imagine if John Starks hits the jumper to win the Knicks the title in game 6 in 94. Some of these dudes would actually believe Patrick Ewing was better at basketball than they currently do.

:applause: this reply is actually a hidden gem in this thread.

It seems Lebron stans are too young or stupid to comprehend this analogy, unfortunately.

[hangintheair]

Only thing that Lebron can surpass to Kareem is his hairline.

[Lebron23]

:applause: this reply is actually a hidden gem in this thread.

It seems Lebron stans are too young or stupid to comprehend this analogy, unfortunately.


Ewing actually under performed in the 1994 NBA Finals if you watched that series. You don't know anything about basketball. LeBron is a better Finals performer than Ewing and Kareem.

[LAZERUSS]

I was listening to WOJ's podcast today where he interviewed Rod Thorn. He asked how good was Wilt. And he said Wilt was a specimen the league had never seen before or since, with his track and field exploits. But he ended with saying that he lacked that fire, that killer instinct and had he possessed it, he would've won every year. But he didn't. And that's why he has no case for GOAT. Because he didn't maximize his talents. The worst thing you can do is NOT maximize your talents. That was Wilt.

Yep...

The Wilt lacked that "killer instinct" alright.

All he did in his 23 must win playoff games was average 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and shoot .540 from the field (in post-seasons that shot .435 on average in the same span...or a full ten percentage points above the league average.)

Oh, and in his 37 must win and series clinching playoff games...

24-13 W-L.
29.5 ppg
26.0 rpg
4.2 apg
.546 FG% (again, outshooting the league average by ten percentage points.)

How about hanging THREE 50+ point games in those "must win" games...which BTW, are the ONLY THREE by a GOAT in NBA post-season history. As well as "must win" playoff games of 46 and 45 points (the 45 point game was a Finals game BTW.)

How about basically never being outrebounded in any of his 29 post-season series, including outrebounding HOFer Bill Russell in EVERY one of their EIGHT playoff series H2H's.

How about an old Wilt battling a peak Kareem in two series-clinching games, and outshooting him by a .545 (18-33) to .383 (23-60) margin in those two games.

How about his two game seven's in his Finals... 19.5 ppg, 25.5 rpg, and on a .710 FG%...while holding his two HOF centers to a collective average of 5.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, and on a .333 FG%.

How about playing in 11 "at the limit" series games...and averaging 29.9 ppg, while holding his opposing starting centers to 9.8 ppg in those 11 games.

How about battling Bill Russell in four game seven's, and outscoring him, 21.0 ppg to 13.0 ppg; outrebounding him, 28.5 rpg to 24.5 rpg; and outshooting him from the field, .638 to .465.

So, after all of that...just what is your definition of "killer instinct?"

[Mr Feeny]

We all know this ... he was known to Wilt.

Pretty much this. Anyways, let's stop digressing. This thread is about 2 of the top 3 players all time and their relative rankings.

Fox seems to agree that Lebron is 》 Kareem while espn has kareem at 2nd ahead of Lebron at 3.

It's a coin toss for most at the moment.

[feyki]

Only thing that Lebron can surpass to Kareem is his hairline.

His hairlane has great longevity , even against far better medical technology .

[ILLsmak]

It's funny that Bron stans say Bron > Kobe because it seems, of all the fans I've known, only Bron and Kobe stans are obsessed with their idol's climb in the all time rankings.

-Smak

[BlakFrankWhite]

If he wins the ring again this season, Then yeah he will surpass KAJ.

[SwayDizzle]

lebron has a long way to go until he surpasses KAJ. he still has shaq, bird, magic, kobe, duncan, russell, and wilt to get thru.

[Mr Feeny]

If he wins the ring again this season, Then yeah he will surpass KAJ.

He's already ahead of Wilt. If he wins this year, he passes Jordan.

[LostCause]

He's already ahead of Wilt. If he wins this year, he passes Jordan.

No, he doesn't

[Mr Feeny]

No, he doesn't

My dawg, if he beats a 73 win team + Kevin Durant after having just become the only player in history to lead both finalists in all statistical categories en route to completing an unprecedented 3-1 comeback with 2 games on the road, how doesn't he become goat? :biggums:

Let's be real:biggums:

[Ca$H]

My dawg, if he beats a 73 win team + Kevin Durant after having just become the only player in history to lead both finalists in all statistical categories en route to completing an unprecedented 3-1 comeback with 2 games on the road, how doesn't he become goat? :biggums:

Let's be real:biggums:

Warriors have to 100% healthy + no suspensions. Full strength. I'll put Kyrie as GOAT and Bran as 2nd GOAT.

[Mr Feeny]

Warriors have to 100% healthy + no suspensions. Full strength. I'll put Kyrie as GOAT and Bran as 2nd GOAT.

I currently have Pau as 12th all time and Kobe 13th.

[LostCause]

My dawg, if he beats a 73 win team + Kevin Durant after having just become the only player in history to lead both finalists in all statistical categories en route to completing an unprecedented 3-1 comeback with 2 games on the road, how doesn't he become goat? :biggums:

Let's be real:biggums:

We'll see how the Warriors actually do this year before presuming how Bron beating them affects his legacy. They won't be the same team from last season (Tbh they werent even the same team in the Playoffs last season as they were in the RS looking at their playoff record)

4 rings is a weak case for GOAT no matter who it is or who they beat, as once the recency bias passes it'll be pretty difficult defending it

If Bron wins 2 more then for sure I can see him being universally considered the GOAT.