Wade on if Lebron could surpass MJ: "No, it's not possible"

[Nilocon165]

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/784100823433437184

Well damn

[Smoke117]

He's just keeping it real.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol, and Pippen said LeBron is the greatest to ever play the game

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lol, and Pippen said LeBron is the greatest to ever play the game
No he didn't.

He said could end up ...

And this was before the epic Finals choke of 2011.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/31/scottie-pippen-take-lebron-james-over-michael-jordan

[ArbitraryWater]

https://i.gyazo.com/2895059faf994dc4e37bbcfce20b33b9.png

https://i.gyazo.com/a9129777e2880f1e78a9693281c30ac2.png


dude with the 'killer instinct' argument lmaoooo

[Mr Feeny]

https://i.gyazo.com/2895059faf994dc4e37bbcfce20b33b9.png

What's this, a.w.?

[ArbitraryWater]

What's this, a.w.?

the top comment on the tweet

[Mr Feeny]

No he didn't.

He said could end up ...

And this was before the epic Finals choke of 2011.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/31/scottie-pippen-take-lebron-james-over-michael-jordan

But he kept making sure to mention how Lebron is a better all around player than Jordan and then back pedalled after the 2011 finals. The point is that we shouldn't put too much stock in players' opinions. We can form our own opinions.

[Mr Feeny]

the top comment on the tweet

Thanks.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://i.gyazo.com/2895059faf994dc4e37bbcfce20b33b9.png

https://i.gyazo.com/a9129777e2880f1e78a9693281c30ac2.png


dude with the 'killer instinct' argument lmaoooo

Lol well look at his avy, he's a butthurt Warriors fan still mad that LeBron shat on them in the Finals

[dazzer87]

Wade with jokes now.........:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bankaii]

Why do the sidekicks always get so salty?

[HurricaneKid]

““The only thing you can do is tie it,” Wade said.”

Doesn't sounds NEARLY as negative now...

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/10/06/dwyane-wade-lebron-james-cant-pass-michael-jordan/

[Bankaii]

[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]

[Ca$H]

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/784100823433437184

Well damn

He was an eyewitness to Bran's 2011 Finals debacle.

[SouBeachTalents]

He was an eyewitness to Bran's 2011 Finals debacle.

As was LeBron to Curry's Finals debacle last June

[Bankaii]

As was LeBron to Curry's Finals debacle last June
And the world to Kobe's Finals debacles in 2000 and 2001 and 2004 and 2008 and 2010...

[HenryGarfunkle]

Says the guy who sabotaged the 2011 finals and got carried to back 2 back rings. God he's such a ****ing ******. Go paint your toenails again Dwayne... ****ing fruit. He's one injury away from being done.

[Nilocon165]

Says the guy who sabotaged the 2011 finals and got carried to back 2 back rings. God he's such a ****ing ******. Go paint your toenails again Dwayne... ****ing fruit. He's one injury away from being done.
The title says Wade on Lebron, not the other way around

[Smoke117]

Says the guy who sabotaged the 2011 finals and got carried to back 2 back rings. God he's such a ****ing ******. Go paint your toenails again Dwayne... ****ing fruit. He's one injury away from being done.

meltdown

[GrapeApe]

Says the guy who sabotaged the 2011 finals and got carried to back 2 back rings. God he's such a ****ing ******. Go paint your toenails again Dwayne... ****ing fruit. He's one injury away from being done.

Yeah, Wade and his 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% did his best to sabatoge the 2011 finals.

And before any comments about Wade wanting to be "the man" in the finals or there being some kind of change in roles, pecking order, etc.....

Wade RS: 26/6/5, 18 fga
Wade Finals: 27/7/5, 18 fga

Nearly identical production.

Oh, and Wade against the Celtics averaged 30/7/5 on 53%, Lebron played well, and the Heat won in 5.

Anyway, ESPN is great at taking things out of context. Wade was actually complimenting Lebron while at the same time showing respect for Jordan.

[SCdac]

Barring 2 or 3 more dominant championship runs and Finals MVPs, I agree with Wade... Jordan is safely the GOAT ... Having said that, you know being in his hometown of Chicago now, Wade's probably a little biased (but at the same time can speak more freely)

http://31.media.tumblr.com/26e2c2f81329952b498ccf37363a7346/tumblr_nd1m69q2Bv1rpg4vgo1_500.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah, Wade and his 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% did his best to sabatoge the 2011 finals.

And before any comments about Wade wanting to be "the man" in the finals or there being some kind of change in roles, pecking order, etc.....

Wade RS: 26/6/5, 18 fga
Wade Finals: 27/7/5, 18 fga

Nearly identical production.

Oh, and Wade against the Celtics averaged 30/7/5 on 53%, Lebron played well, and the Heat won in 5.

Anyway, ESPN is great at taking things out of context. Wade was actually complimenting Lebron while at the same time showing respect for Jordan.

Lol, you put way too much effort into responding to a clear troll comment

[AirBonner]

Winning one championship in cleveland is like winning 3. Ohio is that shitty. He definitely could surpass Jordan.

[rmt]

MJ doesn't have any of the stains on his resume that Lebron does.

[AirBonner]

MJ doesn't have any of the stains on his resume that Lebron does.
1-9 retiring in his prime.

[KirbyPls]

Says the guy who sabotaged the 2011 finals and got carried to back 2 back rings. God he's such a ****ing ******. Go paint your toenails again Dwayne... ****ing fruit. He's one injury away from being done.

:lol :roll: :lol

This post would've got me fired if my boss hand't left to watch the ALDS.

[kamil]

He was an eyewitness to Bran's 2011 Finals debacle.

And a victim.

[lilteapot]

I mean, he's right. Lebron will never surpass MJ's greatness or ability as a basketball player.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Yeah, Wade and his 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% did his best to sabatoge the 2011 finals.

And before any comments about Wade wanting to be "the man" in the finals or there being some kind of change in roles, pecking order, etc.....

Wade RS: 26/6/5, 18 fga
Wade Finals: 27/7/5, 18 fga

Nearly identical production.

Oh, and Wade against the Celtics averaged 30/7/5 on 53%, Lebron played well, and the Heat won in 5.

Anyway, ESPN is great at taking things out of context. Wade was actually complimenting Lebron while at the same time showing respect for Jordan.
Not gonna respond to your trolling so I'll just cover the last statement in bold.

He wasn't complimenting LeBron. He was passively throwing shade at him by saying the best he could do is "tie" Jordan, which puts a limit or a ceiling on LeBron's greatness. That's totally disrespectful especially to a guy who just had the greatest finals ever all things considered. LeBron can absolutely pass Jordan and for Wade to say he can't reeks of jealousy and resentment. But should we expect anything other than bitch-like emotions from a guy who paints his toenails and wears capri's? :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

The title says Wade on Lebron, not the other way around
Seriously. At least you're a sane LeBron fan. Not these delusional creeps with multiple accounts.

[AintNoSunshine]

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dude with the 'killer instinct' argument lmaoooo
:facepalm If Lebron is a poodle what da fk does that make Cuckry? An insect?

[SouBeachTalents]

:facepalm If Lebron is a poodle what da fk does that make Cuckry? An insect?

Dogshit, which is exactly how he played in the Finals

[egokiller]

Seriously. At least you're a sane LeBron fan. Not these delusional creeps with multiple accounts.

Not only that, but at least he has a chance at maybe making amounting to something in life like us one day. There's no chance for Simon and the like. At least for Nilocon165, he could start lifting, get a hair cut, and maybe one day get some trim. I mean it would be one thing if these delusional users actually knew something about basketball, but they can't even use factual information and testimonies to deduce that Lebron is nothing compared to MJ. :confusedshrug:

[AintNoSunshine]

MJ's body type, game and career are simply perfect. Too many things could happen during a 13+ yr for anyone to replicate what MJ did. No one will surpass him until no one cares about what someone did 50 years ago.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Not only that, but at least he has a chance at maybe making amounting to something in life like us one day. There's no chance for Simon and the like. At least for Nilocon165, he could start lifting, get a hair cut, and maybe one day get some trim. I mean it would be one thing if these delusional users actually knew something about basketball, but they can't even use factual information and testimonies to deduce that Lebron is nothing compared to MJ. :confusedshrug:
Who is Simon?

[warriorfan]

Not only that, but at least he has a chance at maybe making amounting to something in life like us one day. There's no chance for Simon and the like. At least for Nilocon165, he could start lifting, get a hair cut, and maybe one day get some trim. I mean it would be one thing if these delusional users actually knew something about basketball, but they can't even use factual information and testimonies to deduce that Lebron is nothing compared to MJ. :confusedshrug:
:roll:

[bobopenguin]

truth hurts

[IllegalD]

Lol, and Pippen said LeBron is the greatest to ever play the game

Scottie Pippen (April 13th, 2016):

[I]

[eeeeeebro]

in basketball people are judged by winning if jordan didnt win as good as he did he would just be known as a scorer the truth is lebron has 43% championship record jordan has 100% this cannot be reversed maybe if lebron had around 75% to 80% win record we could consider him but right now hes not in the ball game

[egokiller]

Who is Simon?

From what I've read, some loser with 20 some accounts that is related to Jeff somehow.

[bobopenguin]

From what I've read, some loser with 20 some accounts that is related to Jeff somehow.

he's a white boy who got bullied by black boys from the school.

[GrapeApe]

Not gonna respond to your trolling so I'll just cover the last statement in bold.

He wasn't complimenting LeBron. He was passively throwing shade at him by saying the best he could do is "tie" Jordan, which puts a limit or a ceiling on LeBron's greatness. That's totally disrespectful especially to a guy who just had the greatest finals ever all things considered. LeBron can absolutely pass Jordan and for Wade to say he can't reeks of jealousy and resentment. But should we expect anything other than bitch-like emotions from a guy who paints his toenails and wears capri's? :confusedshrug:

First of all, I implore you to respond to my "trolling". :pimp:

Second of all, how is saying that Lebron could be Jordan's equal somehow construed as disrespectful? That's essentially the greatest compliment you could give a basketball player.

Wade: "Lebron has a chance to be on par with the greatest player in the history of the game."

Lebron stan: "That's totally disrespectful to Lebron!"

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

.
THRU 31 YEARS OLD




PLAYOFFS PER GAME



Jordan:. 34.7 ppg.. 6.7 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron:. 28.0 ppg.. 8.8 rpg.. 6.8 apg.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




PLAYOFFS PER 100 POSSESSIONS



Jordan:I 43.9 pts..ii 8.5 reb.. 8.4 ast.. 4.2 tov.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron:. 36.4 pts.. 11.5 reb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




FINALS PER GAME



Jordan Finals:. 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 52.6 fg
Lebron Finals:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 45.4 fg



Jordan's first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring than Lebron's 3 rings, while still getting equal assists - so the only category where Lebron leads is defensive rebounds...

How can Lebron have a weaker supporting cast, when Jordan was required to score 25% more with equal assists?



SOURCES:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

[AirBonner]

From what I've read, some loser with 20 some accounts that is related to Jeff somehow.
You are a new poster and Simon is already living rentfree :biggums:

[JT123]

You are a new poster and Simon is already living rentfree :biggums:
:whatever: He's obviously an alt. Pretty sure I know what his main account is too, but I won't expose him just yet.

[3ball]

.
Thru 13 seasons, Jordan had twice as many rings and fmvp's as Lebron - so it's already too late for Lebron to match Jordan.

Secondly, it's statistical fact that Jordan was required to produce far more for his rings - the combined playoff stats for Jordan's first 3 rings show 25% higher PPG with equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings, as shown here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12606202&postcount=1


Overall, thru 31 years old, Jordan averaged 25% more PPG in the playoffs with equal assists to Lebron:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12623503&postcount=44

[Smoke117]

.
Thru 13 seasons, Jordan had twice as many rings and fmvp's as Lebron - so it's already too late for Lebron to match Jordan.

Secondly, it's statistical fact that Jordan was required to produce far more for his rings - the combined playoff stats for Jordan's first 3 rings show 25% higher PPG with equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings, as shown here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12606202&postcount=1


Overall, thru 31 years old, Jordan averaged 25% more PPG in the playoffs with equal assists to Lebron:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12623503&postcount=44

1-9

[keep-itreal]

no, it's necessary

[eeeeeebro]

IT does not matter at all if he is goat.... if jordan didnt play the game of basketball there would probably be better arguments but unfortunately jordan played the dream career

[Hey Yo]

Here's a short take that Colin Cowherd had yesterday on Wade's "James can only tie him" quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgnZtGmxEk

[ArbitraryWater]

You are a new poster and Simon is already living rentfree :biggums:

dude is in here telling posters about other posters, and they wont engage in the talk :lol

[pauk]

Well yea... its safer to say its not possible, he will need 4 more quality alpha championship runs (with some mvps) to surpass him, time is running out, its not impossible.... but very much unlikely...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Colin Cowherd is a total moron though.

[tmacattack33]

““The only thing you can do is tie it,” Wade said.”

Doesn't sounds NEARLY as negative now...

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/10/06/dwyane-wade-lebron-james-cant-pass-michael-jordan/

Word...i think i can agree with that. I'd be very very happy if Lebron "ties" MJ.

Tieing MJ for GOAT would mean about half say MJ and half say Lebron. I doubt that will ever happen. More likely, it will be around 75% MJ, 20% Lebron, and 5% Kareem. And as a Lebron fan, i would take that...as i never really thought it would happen.

I do think some people aren't even realizing that Lebron's longevity could be something amazing though. He was a bonafide super-star at age 20. So, he could end up with 15 years of consecutive super-star play. And no injuries or gap years in between like MJ had.

[tmacattack33]

Well yea... its safer to say its not possible, he will need 4 more quality alpha championship runs (with some mvps) to surpass him, time is running out, its not impossible.... but very much unlikely...

That's ridiculous bro...Lebron's 2007 run and 2015 run were just as impressive, if not more, than many number one option's rings.

Taking terrible teams to the Finals with average coaches can easily be seen as more impressive than taking Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc to a ring with the GOAT Coach.

[Dray n Klay]

Is it possible for Wade to have a playoff run that doesn't result in a quit-job??

Huh? Answer that first Wade :oldlol:







Never seen a saltier sidekick in my life. Dude needs to clean LeBron's shoes for the rest of his life after the way Bron carried him from 2011-2014.

[3ball]

Taking terrible teams to the Finals with average coaches can easily be seen as more impressive than taking Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc to a ring with the GOAT Coach.


Stats from 1997 playoffs:

Pippen: 19 ppg on 41%

Kukoc: 8 ppg on 36%

Rodman: 4/8 on 37%


Pippen's stats in 1996-1998 playoffs:

17/7/5 on 40.8%



Lebron never won a ring with that little help... :confusedshrug:

And that was Jordan's SECOND 3-peat - we all know his 1st three-peat was accomplished with weaker supporting talent than nearly any championship team..

Btw, the fact that you needed to include the COACH as part of the "supporting cast" shows how weak Jordan's supporting talent actually was.






Lebron's 2007 run and 2015 run were just as impressive


Lebron had a healthy Kyrie through the conference finals in 2015.

Otoh, Jordan's 1989 run was more impressive than Lebron's 2015 and 2007 - the stats and opponent rankings make this quite clear:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10804680&postcount=1

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan's 1989 run was more impressive than both - the stats and opponent rankings make this quite clear:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10804680&postcount=1


LeBron BEAT the Pistons


Jordan LOST to the Pistons




LeBrons was better :confusedshrug:

[Nilocon165]

Is it possible for Wade to have a playoff run that doesn't result in a quit-job??

Hmmmmm let's see

2006 Finals: Came back from down 0-2 and won while averaging 35, 8, and 3

2011 Finals: Averaged 27 ppg while the best player in the world averaged 18

2013 Finals: Dropped 23 in Game 7 on 54 percent

So yeah, it is possible for him to have a playoff run that doesn't result in a quit job, you ****ing moron

[3ball]

And no injuries or gap years in between like MJ had.


But also no aging gracefully and dominantly like Jordan, because Lebron can't shoot and has no moves - so when his athleticism declines, he's DONE

It will be fun to hear about and I'll say that I told you so.. :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

Hmmmmm let's see

2006 Finals: Came back from down 0-2 and won while averaging 35, 8, and 3

2011 Finals: Averaged 27 ppg while the best player in the world averaged 18

2013 Finals: Dropped 23 in Game 7 on 54 percent

So yeah, it is possible for him to have a playoff run that doesn't result in a quit job, you ****ing moron


2013: Averaged 17ppg in the last 2 games


2014: Averaged 8 ppg in the last 3 games


2016: 16 points in the deciding Game 7 vs the Raptors



Dude has flamed out of his last 3 playoffs pretty badly






Maybe you should do your homework, little guy :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

.
Someone explain to me how Lebron could possibly catch MJ, when MJ had twice as many rings and fmvp's thru 13 seasons, AND considering MJ's first 3 rings required (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12606202&postcount=1) 25% more scoring and equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings?

Jordan has twice the playoff accomplishments thru 13 seasons and was required to produce more to achieve those accomplishments

[Dray n Klay]

.
Someone explain to me how Lebron can catch MJ, considering MJ had twice as many rings and fmvp's thru 13 seasons, AND considering MJ's first 3 rings required (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12606202&postcount=1) 25% more scoring and equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings?


Because LeBron accumulated a HIGHER PROPORTION of his teams Points/Rebounds/Assists than Jordan :confusedshrug:





Looking at PROPORTION instead of raw totals is a better indicator as it adjusts for pace and defense.


And therefore, LeBron > MJ

[Nilocon165]

2013: Averaged 17ppg in the last 2 games

Prime Lebron averaged this in the finals in 2011

[Dray n Klay]

Prime Lebron averaged this in the finals in 2011

And a Prime Wade averaged worse than that in 2014 :oldlol:


This is too easy, kid :banana:

[Nilocon165]

And a Prime Wade averaged worse than that in 2014 :oldlol:


This is too easy, kid :banana:
1. :facepalm

2. I can't believe somebody's autism has actually gotten so bad to the point that I have to argue against Lebron

3. Lebron scored 8 points in a finals game, while Wade had 32. That was there chance to go up 3-1 and Lebron got carried by his 2nd and 3rd option.

4. You should watch the final minutes of 2010 ECSF Game 6

This is too easy, kid :banana:

[3ball]

Looking at PROPORTION instead of raw totals is a better indicator as it adjusts for pace and defense.



When you adjust for pace by looking at PER POSSESSION STATS, Jordan's first 3 rings required 25% more scoring and equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings:


PER 100 POSSESSIONS


Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:. 44.5 pts.. ii8.4 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 3.8 tov.. 49.7 fg.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER
Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:. 36.1 pts.. 10.2 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 4.4 tov.. 51.0 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER



SOURCES:


Jordan stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game
Lebron stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html






Because LeBron accumulated a HIGHER PROPORTION of his teams Points/Rebounds/Assists than Jordan


Jordan's significantly higher proportion of scoring on better efficiency is FAR more important than Lebron's higher proportion of defensive rebounds (Jordan got more offensive rebounds).

Regarding assists - Jordan's teams got more assists because they had far better teamwork, so Jordan's assists was a lower proportion of his team's assists than Lebron's assists.. But despite the lower proportion due to greater teamwork, Jordan's playoff apg and assists per possession were equal to Lebron's thru 31 years old.

Infact, Jordan's off-ball game fostered superior teamwork and INCREASED his teammates assists, while Lebron's ball-dominant style fostered shitty teamwork and LOWERED the assists of his teammates.. This is statistical fact, shown here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12606535&postcount=10).. Obviously, Lebron's lowering of teammate assists serves to increase his proportion of assists.
.

[Dray n Klay]

So 3ball, you admit LeBron did MORE for his team as he achieved a higher proportion of his teams points/rebounds/assists than Jordan?







So LeBron was the More Valuable Player for his team, while Jordan was a cog in a well-oiled system (due to Phil Jackson, hence the Bulls were the same team even when Jordan left in 1993) :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

So 3ball, you admit LeBron did MORE for his team as he achieved a higher proportion of his teams points/rebounds/assists than Jordan?


No, Lebron did not achieve a higher proportion of points/rebs/assists, because there's no such thing.


When a player achieves 1% of his team's scoring and 1% of his team's rebounds, you can't add them together as if they are the same - so you can't say the player achieves 2% of his team's scoring and rebounds.. That makes no sense.. :hammerhead:

You have to look at each separately - and clearly, Jordan's higher proportion of scoring is worth much more than Lebron's higher proportion of defensive rebounds.. The proportion of assists is meaningless, since it depends on the level of teamwork - Jordan's teams had better teamwork and more assists, which lowered the proportion of Jordan's assists even though his assists PER POSSESSION was equal to Lebron's (while scoring 25% more per possession as well).





while Jordan was a cog in a well-oiled system (due to Phil Jackson


Do you realize that no all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career, let alone by an average margin of 15 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) like Jordan, who also led his team in assists most seasons and was the greatest defender ever at his positon.

That isn't a "cog"... That's the GOAT and it represents the biggest load ever carried (goat scoring load, team-leading assists, goat defense at position.. :confusedshrug:).

And again - that "cog" achieved his first 3 rings by scoring 25% more with equal assists to Lebron's 3 rings

[Dray n Klay]

That isn't a "cog"... That's the GOAT and it represents the biggest load ever [/SIZE]



3ball, lets make this simple.



Lets say a player leaves a 57 win team, and gets replaced by a D-League scrub.





If the team still manages to win 55 games without said player, then its fair to say that player was a 'cog' in the teams system, and definitely was not a major part of the team. :confusedshrug:







Jordan was simply a cog in Phil Jackson's well-oiled system

[3ball]

3ball, lets make this simple.

Bulls won 55 without MJ in 1994


Any team can win 55 games in the garbage regular season if they have 3-peat chemistry among the players and 3-peat know-how within the organization.

Otoh, when Lebron left the Cavs at the end of 2010, they weren't 3-peat champs.. They were only a 2nd Round team and they didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Shaq, Mo Williams, Zydrunas, Delonte, and Varejao, which totaled 50 ppg, or half the team's scoring.

Similarly, the Heat weren't 3-peat champions in 2014 - they were blown away by record margin in the Finals and were the equivalent of a 1st Round Western Conference team that fell to lottery in 2015 due to Wade/Bosh injuries





I don't know history


Then let me educate you - the Bulls' DRtg in 1994 (6th) wasn't any better relative to the league than the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th).

Accordingly, the MASSIVE decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round team was due entirely to the absence of MJ's goat offense (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12082990&postcount=185), which caused their ORtg to crater from #1 all-time (during the 3-peat) to 14th in the league in 1994.

[Dray n Klay]

Bulls won 55 games without MJ

So 3ball, are you saying the difference between Jordan and Pete Myers (Jordan's D-League replacement) is 2 wins (57 vs 55 wins)? :confusedshrug:





Meanwhile, the Cavs are a FULL 42 Wins worse without LeBron?

[AirBonner]

So 3ball, are you saying the difference between Jordan and Pete Myers (Jordan's D-League replacement) is 2 wins (57 vs 55 wins)? :confusedshrug:





Meanwhile, the Cavs are a FULL 42 Wins worse without LeBron?
Got em :lol

[Smoke117]

Stats from 1997 playoffs:

Pippen: 19 ppg on 41%

Kukoc: 8 ppg on 36%

Rodman: 4/8 on 37%


Pippen's stats in 1996-1998 playoffs:

17/7/5 on 40.8%



Lebron never won a ring with that little help... :confusedshrug:

And that was Jordan's SECOND 3-peat - we all know his 1st three-peat was accomplished with weaker supporting talent than nearly any championship team..

Btw, the fact that you needed to include the COACH as part of the "supporting cast" shows how weak Jordan's supporting talent actually was.




Lebron had a healthy Kyrie through the conference finals in 2015.

Otoh, Jordan's 1989 run was more impressive than Lebron's 2015 and 2007 - the stats and opponent rankings make this quite clear:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10804680&postcount=1


Okay...but when exactly did LeBron ever play with the best perimeter defensive player of all time? Oh wait...he didn't...Scottie Pippen retired Lebron's rookie season.

1-9.

[3ball]

Okay...but when exactly did LeBron ever play with the best perimeter defensive player of all time? Oh wait...he didn't...Scottie Pippen retired Lebron's rookie season.

1-9.


Wait a minute.. Lebron isn't the best defensive SF of all time?.. :kobe:

Jordan was the best defensive SG ever, while being the goat offensive player.. :whatever:

You have to understand that Lebron's defensive impact means nothing to his team if it's cancelled out by the opposing SF's impact - otoh, since Jordan was the best defensive SG ever, his defensive impact was offset less by the opposing SG, therefore giving his team a greater defensive impact.. Indeed, there are actual REASONS for 6/6

Btw, even though Pippen was a great defensive player, that alone wasn't sufficient to prevent Jordan from STILL needing to be the best ever on offense, and the best perimeter player ever on defense.. Yeah, Jordan was the best perimeter defender ever, not Pippen - it's pretty clear (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11974757&postcount=9) just by looking at their D against same opponents that Jordan was the superior perimeter defender - vastly quicker, more competitive, smarter.





1-9.


Young Jordan's 2nd options of Woolridge, Oakley and 2nd year Pippen (14/6/3) weren't top 4 players at their position in the conference (all-stars), whereas Lebron's 2nd options of Big Z and Mo Williams WERE all-stars, and therefore better relative to their competition than Jordan's cast.

Jordan's weaker cast is shown by the stats - his 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins for the 1989 Bulls, whereas Lebron's 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in for the 2009 Cavs.. The 19 win gap can't be due ONLY to a weaker conference - it must be due to a weaker supporting cast as well.. Jordan's weaker cast also explains why he was required to DO MORE thru 31 years old, including 30% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12616538&postcount=71) more PPG in the playoffs with equal assists.

[k0kakw0rld]

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/784100823433437184

Well damn
Who the fvck is a Wade anyway?

[Hey Yo]

Any team can win 55 games in the garbage regular season if they have 3-peat chemistry among the players and 3-peat know-how within the organization.

Otoh, when Lebron left the Cavs at the end of 2010, they weren't 3-peat champs.. They were only a 2nd Round team and they didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Shaq, Mo Williams, Zydrunas, Delonte, and Varejao, which totaled 50 ppg, or half the team's scoring.
I re-posted in the team record thread

[Dragonyeuw]

So LeBron was the More Valuable Player for his team, while Jordan was a cog in a well-oiled system (due to Phil Jackson, hence the Bulls were the same team even when Jordan left in 1993) :confusedshrug:

Who let this retard out of the asylum? That same Bulls team that won 67 games in 92, won ten less in 93. Are you going to argue that the 93 team was actually 10 games worse than the 92 team with the same roster and all key players in their primes? In fact, the 93 team won less than the 91 team when they won their first title. So the 91 Bulls are better than the 93 Bulls as well?

Here's a question for you, since you're so fixated on the record argument: which Cavs team is better, the 2009 one that won 66 games and lost in the ECFs, or the 2016 Cavs team that won 57 games and won the championship? You can't answer the 2009 team, lest you expose yourself as a hypocrite. And we wouldn't want to do that, would we?

[RoseCity07]

Lebron is better than MJ at everything but scoring. He's a better passer, defender, shot blocker, and rebounder. He does a better job of making his team better.

Scoring is so overrated by NBA casual fans. It's why idiots actually think MJ was better than Kareem. He wasn't.

Look at players that are great scorer and that's it. Melo. Great scorer. Trash player. It takes overall talent to be great. Lebron is easily greater overall.

[egokiller]

Who let this retard out of the asylum?

Don't waste your time. He will just lose the argument and then claim you are an alt.

[Dragonyeuw]

Lebron is better than MJ at everything but scoring. He's a better passer, defender, shot blocker, and rebounder. He does a better job of making his team better.

Scoring is so overrated by NBA casual fans. It's why idiots actually think MJ was better than Kareem. He wasn't.

Look at players that are great scorer and that's it. Melo. Great scorer. Trash player. It takes overall talent to be great. Lebron is easily greater overall.

No it isn't. Because it's possible to win a game and be outrebounded/out-assisted/out-shotblocked. It's not possible to win a game by being outscored. And since MJ was an all-world defender, great passer from the SG spot, great rebounder from the SG spot, and one of the GOAT SG shotblockers ( if not the), then him being a more dynamic scorer is important in this discussion. The fact that Lebron gets a couple more rebounds( being 3 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier), an extra assist does not necessarily and automatically translate to the win column as much as the most basic aspect to most sports, which is to outscore the guy across from you. Your Melo comparison is irrelevant both to MJ and Lebron because he does nothing at an elite level besides score( though he is a good rebounder). And even then, despite Melo's reputation in terms of skillset, he's not the most efficient scorer career-wise beyond a few seasons in Denver, and falls short to Lebron in both PPG, TS, and overall FG%. Not an apt comparison.

Across their careers, and if you want to look at their careers after 13 years, MJ was at 31 ppg compared to Lebron's 27ppg. That's not a negligible difference. And it should be mentioned, for their careers, MJ is a statistically better offensive rebounder by a small margin. And since offensive rebounds lead to another opportunity to score, a case can be made that MJ's rebounds led to points( or at least, the potential for more) than Lebron grabbing a few extra defensive rebounds playing from a front-court position.

[ballin33]

It's that 2011 finals loss bron had, if he would have won that he would have chance of tying jordan. Bad luck kyrie got hurt in 2015 as well. I see him maybe getting 1 more ring, top 3 all time behind jordan and kaj. Jordan is just so unreachable, LeBron is only 50% there and 32 with lots of mileage. Not happening.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's that 2011 finals loss bron had, if he would have won that he would have chance of tying jordan. Bad luck kyrie got hurt in 2015 as well. I see him maybe getting 1 more ring, top 3 all time behind jordan and kaj. Jordan is just so unreachable, LeBron is only 50% there and 32 with lots of mileage. Not happening.

Agreed on every point

[Paul George 24]

Lebron is better than MJ at everything but scoring. He's a better passer, defender, shot blocker, and rebounder. He does a better job of making his team better.

Scoring is so overrated by NBA casual fans. It's why idiots actually think MJ was better than Kareem. He wasn't.

Look at players that are great scorer and that's it. Melo. Great scorer. Trash player. It takes overall talent to be great. Lebron is easily greater overall.
JAILBLAZERS IS STAY SALTY :lol

[theaussieguy]

Collusion, non-clutch, front runner.

Lebron is an all time great but the greatest of all time? delusional

[bizil]

In terms of GOAT status and peak status, Bron can't surpass MJ. But Bron is the most versatile player of all time and can EFFECTIVELY cover more holes than anybody else. And that right there says a lot!

[SamuraiSWISH]

Straight from his best friend and former teammates mouth?

:oldlol:

[LostCause]

Well, Pippen said a similar thing about Lebron being > Jordan

[Dray n Klay]

Straight from his best friend and former teammates mouth?

:oldlol:

Oh the irony :oldlol:


http://www.espn.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168

[SamuraiSWISH]

Oh the irony :oldlol:


http://www.espn.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168
That's in May 2011 after beating Chicago and before the most iconic choke job with the 10th best supporting cast of all time.

Here's a more recent ones

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/10/31/scottie-pippen-take-lebron-james-over-michael-jordan

Scottie Pippen: "I did not say I'd take Lebron' over Michael Jordan"

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2015/06/scottie_pippen_says_he_was_leb.html

"They want to compare him to the greatest, whether it be Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, but he's more closer to myself," Pippen said. "It's natural for folks to say that, but if you look at how he plays the game and how I played the game, you'll see more similarities with us."

Scottie can't make up his mind. Probably just bitter having to be carried as the definitive second fiddle back in 2011. Definitely sobered up real quick. As we all did.

He also said he was LeBron before LeBron.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Wade isn't waffling, and has no agenda in down playing Mike in favor of HIS BEST FRIEND

[Dray n Klay]

Swish meltdown! :oldlol:


Got exposed and backpedaling like a *****


Reminds me of when he had to defend himself defending Jordans d*** :oldlol:

(Before I created an account here)

[Nilocon165]

Swish meltdown! :oldlol:


Got exposed and backpedaling like a *****


Reminds me of when he had to defend himself defending Jordans d*** :oldlol:

(Before I created an account here)
"I've made several accounts on here before this one"

[SamuraiSWISH]

"I've made several accounts on here before this one"
Lol buddy keeps referencing things well before his join date. Then back pedals.

[Dray n Klay]

I guess people never heard of lurking on a forum before joining :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

I guess people never heard of lurking on a forum before joining :oldlol:
You're rerferencing things from 2013 and 2014.

You lurked like a creep to memorize posts for a solid 2 to 3 years before you mustered up the nuts to talk like an idiot on here, and beg people for attention like a neglected orphan?

:oldlol:

Did your dad leave your mom at an early age of something? Just a one hitter quitter and run? I feel bad for you, kid.

[Dray n Klay]

You're rerferencing things from 2013 and 2014.

You lurked like a creep to memorize posts for a solid 2 to 3 years before you mustered up the nuts to talk like an idiot on here, and beg people for attention like a neglected orphan?

:oldlol:

Did your dad leave your mom at an early age of something? Just a one hitter quitter and run? I feel bad for you, kid.

Why so personal Swish? :oldlol:



Its funny how I can rattle a grown 31 year old dude so easily to the point of personal attacks and insults.





You've basically lost it ever since the "Coach debacle". Its sad to see how much you've fallen off. Just another low-life middle age dude with no future (We have enough of those on ISH anyway)




Oh well, hopefully things work out for you in the end.

[Nilocon165]

Why so personal Swish? :oldlol:



Its funny how I can rattle a grown 31 year old dude so easily to the point of personal attacks and insults.





You've basically lost it ever since the "Coach debacle". Its sad to see how much you've fallen off. Just another low-life middle age dude with no future (We have enough of those on ISH anyway)




Oh well, hopefully things work out for you in the end.
Says the dude who's one accomplishment in life is being able to make multiple accounts and be an attention whore just because he's somehow related to the owner of this site :applause: :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Says the dude who's one accomplishment in life is being able to make multiple accounts and be an attention whore just because he's somehow related to the owner of this site :applause: :roll:
:oldlol: