Is Rich Paul the Worst Agent in the NBA?

[Koresh]

Seriously...

Has any other agent done the following:

1. Holds his players hostage.
2. Holds the players' teams hostage.
3. Threatens to sit out his players for a season (50/50 on this one on Simmons)
4. Plays hardball way too much with these insane contracts.
5. Killing team chemistry (players not in training camp)

It's always Rich Paul doing these tactics with his clients. Year 2 and J.R. Smith is not on the Cavs just like Tristian Thompson last year. This dude is a nobody without LeBron James. The fact you know this dude's name should tell you how powerful he is. I don't know the names of any other agents in the NBA, seriously. I really don't.

Just like last year, TT didn't get that contract Paul wanted for him and I don't expect J.R. to get 15 mil a season. It might be 12 million or something. I don't like the holdout and I think J.R. deserves the money because he's elite but the other scrubs are getting paid way too much *cough* Wesley Matthews, Eric Gordon *cough*

RedBlackAttack despises this guy and I don't blame him.

[RedBlackAttack]

He has held a high profile player out for three straight years now. Two years ago it was Bledsoe, followed by Tristan last year and now JR.

His negotiation technique seems to be "f#ck you, pay me."

That's fine if a team is truly low-balling a guy or if you have leverage with other potential suitors.

Rich Paul has consistently shown that he'll do it regardless of how reasonable the team is being and regardless of whether or not there is interest elsewhere ... just to be a d!ck, basically.

That works great when you're LeBron's buddy who happened to be lucky enough to grow up on the same block as one of the greatest basketball players of all-time. It should be interesting when LBJ retires, though. I'll take great joy in watching Paul's power retire with him.

I've never really had a strong opinion about any sports agent in my life, but he's an opportunist piece of garbage.

[HurricaneKid]

Q: What is an agent's job?

A: To get the most money they can for their client.

Therefore, you are suggesting that Rich Paul (and for the record, Mark Termini is the actual negotiator) is a bad agent you are likely in the bag for ownership. Because if I were a player I would absolutely hire Boras/Termini. Because those guys get their clients PAID.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Nothing wrong with Ben Simmons sitting out this season

[Kblaze8855]

His negotiation technique seems to be "f#ck you, pay me."

That's fine if a team is truly low-balling a guy or if you have leverage with other potential suitors.

Rich Paul has consistently shown that he'll do it regardless of how reasonable the team is being and regardless of whether or not there is interest elsewhere ... just to be a d!ck, basically.

Why should he care at all about anything but how much money his player/he himself makes?

Do you care about his children? His happiness? You care about any aspect of his life that doesnt contribute to your enjoyment? Why should he care about you or anyone in the NBA who he doesnt work for?

[Mr Feeny]

He has held a high profile player out for three straight years now. Two years ago it was Bledsoe, followed by Tristan last year and now JR.

His negotiation technique seems to be "f#ck you, pay me."

That's fine if a team is truly low-balling a guy or if you have leverage with other potential suitors.

Rich Paul has consistently shown that he'll do it regardless of how reasonable the team is being and regardless of whether or not there is interest elsewhere ... just to be a d!ck, basically.

That works great when you're LeBron's buddy who happened to be lucky enough to grow up on the same block as one of the greatest basketball players of all-time. It should be interesting when LBJ retires, though. I'll take great joy in watching Paul's power retire with him.

I've never really had a strong opinion about any sports agent in my life, but he's an opportunist piece of garbage.

I'd say most of us would agree with this. You can't attempt to strong arm every owner in the league unless you have a transcendent valuable talent backing you - in this case Lebron James. This agent will get low-balled as soon as James retires. Not a lot of owners are going to want to deal this type of personality.

[HurricaneKid]

I'd say most of us would agree with this. You can't attempt to strong arm every owner in the league unless you have a transcendent valuable talent backing you - in this case Lebron James. This agent will get low-balled as soon as James retires. Not a lot of owners are going to want to deal this type of personality.

So LeBron leveraged the Suns into paying Bledsoe more?

He MUST be GOAT.

[Bankaii]

TT worked out, but I don't understand this JR situation.
I'm sure he knows if JR doesn't sign with the Cavs, they would be screwed, thus screwing Lebron. I'm sure he wouldn't be dumb enough to do that.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why should he care at all about anything but how much money his player/he himself makes?

Do you care about his children? His happiness? You care about any aspect of his life that doesnt contribute to your enjoyment? Why should he care about you or anyone in the NBA who he doesnt work for?
... because part of being a professional athlete is endearing yourself to your employer and the fans of the team/player. There is a reason why the NBA and players have handlers for their "brand" and they're essentially required to take part in public relations projects.

Paul, who directly represents these athletes, does them a disservice by pulling these shenanigans every offseason. He makes them look unreasonable (ie hurts their brand) and I have to think he does damage to his relationship with the franchise ... a franchise he has to work with regularly with other guys.

Again, it would be one thing if he held guys out for clearly defined reasons, but he's not. He is doing this every offseason now.

He abuses the only leverage that he has -- being LeBron's friend and business partner -- and I don't think the Cavs would put up with it if it were any other agent. But, they have to bite their lip and deal with him.

It's starting to feel a little bit like extortion. If JR has a better offer out there, then he should take it or see if the Cavs can beat it. We both know those offers don't exist. There are only a handful of teams even capable of offering JR a contract and none have shown interest.

This is an attempt to hold out long enough that it angers LeBron James to the point where he'll use his power to force an overpay.

I've not seen any other agent consistently negotiate like this ... because no other agent has the face of the NBA backing them up.


I obviously care, because now it is starting to impact the team. Every game JR misses, even in the preseason, means he will come in that much more out-of-shape and have that much more catching up to do.

[Kblaze8855]

Considering how many people get(in our eyes...talking cap value) brutally overpaid im not sure why id hate him for trying to do the same. He isnt there to be nice. Hes there to maximize his clients income so long as that is their goal. Jr Smith is a 12 year veteran on his 4th or 5th team. He doesnt care what the Cavs feel about him. Hes gonna be retired in a few years living(hopefully) 50 more years off this...his final big contract. He doesnt need to be liked. He needs to get paid. Hes about to have zero earning potential for the rest of his life. **** feelings. That dude isnt thinking about what corporate partners and Miss Jackson from up the street thinks. And he shouldnt. It would be irresponsible for him as a provider to care.

If he can get Lebron to strong arm a team that isnt gonna care if he lives or dies in 4 years to give him 18 million more dollars than he "deserves" he should do it.

Id do it. You would do it.

Why shouldnt he?

I would burn large portions of Cleveland to the ground for 60 million dollars and a sound plan to get away with it and not kill anyone.

I'll call JR Smith a lot of things....but I wont begrudge him trying to squeeze more money out of his one marketable skill.

he doesnt strike me as the type of dude to have saved most of what hes made so far. This is probably his "Time to grow up" deal.

And when its time to grow up....**** everyones feelings. Its time to pad the kids trust fund.

I ****ed over my last job to go where I am now...and it was over an extra 6 thousand dollars a year.

Id let that entire facility sink into the depths of hell for an extra 20 million. I have kids to feed and a mom who wants a new car......

[RedBlackAttack]

So LeBron leveraged the Suns into paying Bledsoe more?

He MUST be GOAT.
He has been worse with Tristan and JR than he was with Bledsoe. That standoff ended in mid-September, at least. Even then, the Suns were exploring S&Ts with Bledsoe because of the hold-out and he hadn't even missed any time.

Tristan's holdout last year bled into October and who knows when this JR thing will get resolved. The Cavs have no choice but to grin and bare it.

[qrich]

David Falk is the worst agent, followed by DeAndre's.

[RedBlackAttack]

Considering how many people get(in our eyes...talking cap value) brutally overpaid im not sure why id hate him for trying to do the same. He isnt there to be nice. Hes there to maximize his clients income so long as that is their goal. Jr Smith is a 12 year veteran on his 4th or 5th team. He doesnt care what the Cavs feel about him. Hes gonna be retired in a few years living(hopefully) 50 more years off this...his final big contract. He doesnt need to be liked. He needs to get paid. Hes about to have zero earning potential for the rest of his life. **** feelings. That dude isnt thinking about what corporate partners and Miss Jackson from up the street thinks. And he shouldnt. It would be irresponsible for him as a provider to care.

If he can get Lebron to strong arm a team that isnt gonna care if he lives or dies in 4 years to give him 18 million more dollars than he "deserves" he should do it.

Id do it. You would do it.

Why shouldnt he?

I would burn large portions of Cleveland to the ground for 60 million dollars and a sound plan to get away with it and not kill anyone.

I'll call JR Smith a lot of things....but I wont begrudge him trying to squeeze more money out of his one marketable skill.

he doesnt strike me as the type of dude to have saved most of what hes made so far. This is probably his "Time to grow up" deal.

And when its time to grow up....**** everyones feelings. Its time to pad the kids trust fund.

I ****ed over my last job to go where I am now...and it was over an extra 6 thousand dollars a year.

Id let that entire facility sink into the depths of hell for an extra 20 million. I have kids to feed and a mom who wants a new car......
You f#cked over your last job because you obviously had leverage. Rich Paul's leverage is LeBron James, not JR Smith. He's working on a contract for JR Smith, not LeBron James. There are no teams out there beating down his door to give JR $18 million a year.

This is all about Rich Paul being LeBron's friend and knowing there is ultimately going to be no short-term consequences to his strong-arming techniques, where there would be for anyone else.

Also, the difference between being a professional athlete in the spotlight and being a regular working stiff like me and you is that I doubt random people you have never met were debating your negotiating techniques on message boards across the world when you ditched your last job. Public perception matters to these guys.

These are public figures who will be making over $10 million a year regardless of how this tactic works. No one is being low-balled here. The Cavs are offering JR more than anyone can already.

Paul has used LeBron James as leverage two straight years and it sucks.

[Kblaze8855]

Im sure it sucks for you.

Tell me how it sucks for the people getting vast sums of money out of it and ill call him bad at his job.

They hire him. Keep him on...let him do it. He works for them.

They cant be too upset by it. Im sure Tristan is enjoying his 84 million dollars for 7/9 off the bench. Or as Boogie put it:


https://s21.postimg.org/xebidj6jr/boogie.jpg




Hes supposed to get his guys overpaid by any and all means. If he works for me....and I just saw 20 people who dont matter get 60-90 million? I just saw Bradley Beal get 120 million? Mike Conley got 150? **** it. Why am I supposed to be flexible? Allen Crabbe gets 19 million dollars and he started 8 games in his career. He was a second rounder...almost undrafted...like 3 years ago. Hes making 19 million dollars.

And if im JR Smith...im supposed to be nice? Reasonable? We are in unreasonable times my friend.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6a/7b/49/6a7b49d5242a7e69572c506922cb9b1f.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

Im sure it sucks for you.

Tell me how it sucks for the people getting vast sums of money out of it and ill call him bad at his job.

They hire him. Keep him on...let him do it. He works for them.

They cant be too upset by it. Im sure Tristan is enjoying his 84 million dollars for 7/9 off the bench. Or as Boogie put it:


https://s21.postimg.org/xebidj6jr/boogie.jpg




Hes supposed to get his guys overpaid by any and all means. If he works for me....and I just saw 20 people who dont matter get 60-90 million? I just saw Bradley Beal get 120 million? Mike Conley got 150? **** it. Why am I supposed to be flexible? Allen Crabbe gets 19 million dollars and he started 8 games in his career. He was a second rounder...almost undrafted...like 3 years ago. Hes making 19 million dollars.

And if im JR Smith...im supposed to be nice? Reasonable? We are in unreasonable times my friend.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6a/7b/49/6a7b49d5242a7e69572c506922cb9b1f.jpg
Truth is, the Tristan hold-out did very little if any good. The rumored deal right off the bat when the moratorium was lifted was $82 million. He ended up getting a small fraction more and I was fine with the dollar amount. I'm sure the Cavs were fine with giving it to him.

Everything I've witnessed on the outside looking in from Paul is that he doesn't even have a dollar figure or number of years that he demands... he just strong-arms until he can't anymore and then he'll take whatever deal is on the table.

It's amateurish and it could potentially hurt the team. F#ck him. He negotiates like a 5-year-old.

[Kblaze8855]

So he mildly annoyed people he doesnt care about so his client could have at least 2 million extra dollars and play the entire season?

Wait here....im gonna go assemble a stake to burn him on.

Should I bring a second for the guy who decided to charge 9 dollars for beers because people are stupid enough to pay it at a sporting event?

Or are we not burning people for generating vast sums of money when they are asked to do it?

Im willing...to explore that option.

[fourkicks44]

http://www.snakkle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/jay-mohr-GC.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

For the record let me say....I get why a fan would say "**** him". Makes sense even. But in the words of the legendary prison rapist Fleece Johnson....you aint gotta like it. You just gotta take it.

Its that dudes job to **** your team out of every cent. I wouldnt expect you to be in favor of him.

[RedBlackAttack]

So he mildly annoyed people he doesnt care about so his client could have at least 2 million extra dollars and play the entire season?

Wait here....im gonna go assemble a stake to burn him on.

Should I bring a second for the guy who decided to charge 9 dollars for beers because people are stupid enough to pay it at a sporting event?

Or are we not burning people for generating vast sums of money when they are asked to do it?

Im willing...to explore that option.
As far as I know, it is perfectly reasonable to critique the way a person operates in their respective employment and they're free not to care. I'm not saying he should care or JR should care. But I am saying that I personally think he sucks as an agent and he owes his living to being born on the right block in Akron, not any incredible business acumen.

Rich Paul is free to come to my job and critique the way I do it. I won't take offense.

The discussion isn't about why Rich Paul should care what I think. It's about what I think of Rich Paul.

[Spaulding]

He has held a high profile player out for three straight years now. Two years ago it was Bledsoe, followed by Tristan last year and now JR.

His negotiation technique seems to be "f#ck you, pay me."

That's fine if a team is truly low-balling a guy or if you have leverage with other potential suitors.

Rich Paul has consistently shown that he'll do it regardless of how reasonable the team is being and regardless of whether or not there is interest elsewhere ... just to be a d!ck, basically.

That works great when you're LeBron's buddy who happened to be lucky enough to grow up on the same block as one of the greatest basketball players of all-time. It should be interesting when LBJ retires, though. I'll take great joy in watching Paul's power retire with him.

I've never really had a strong opinion about any sports agent in my life, but he's an opportunist piece of garbage.

Sounds like someone who is doing their job and is looking for the best offer for his clients. I can see why you don't like him but that doesn't change the fact this man is doing what he's hired to do.

[Darius]

Um didn't he get Tristan Thompson like $80m+?

Doesn't that make him the best agent in the NBA?

The job of an agent is to get your client the most guaranteed money possible, right?

[RedBlackAttack]

Um didn't he get Tristan Thompson like $80m+?

Doesn't that make him the best agent in the NBA?

The job of an agent is to get your client the most guaranteed money possible, right?
The Cavs offered TT $82 million immediately in July. He ended up getting $84 million after holding out into October.

Genius!

[Thunderfan86]

I would burn large portions of Cleveland to the ground for 60 million dollars and a sound plan to get away with it and not kill anyone.

************************************************** **********************

Id let that entire facility sink into the depths of hell for an extra 20 million. I have kids to feed and a mom who wants a new car......
WOW! Is this just big boy talk or would you actually do these things?

[iamgine]

He has held a high profile player out for three straight years now. Two years ago it was Bledsoe, followed by Tristan last year and now JR.

His negotiation technique seems to be "f#ck you, pay me."

That's fine if a team is truly low-balling a guy or if you have leverage with other potential suitors.

Rich Paul has consistently shown that he'll do it regardless of how reasonable the team is being and regardless of whether or not there is interest elsewhere ... just to be a d!ck, basically.

That works great when you're LeBron's buddy who happened to be lucky enough to grow up on the same block as one of the greatest basketball players of all-time. It should be interesting when LBJ retires, though. I'll take great joy in watching Paul's power retire with him.

I've never really had a strong opinion about any sports agent in my life, but he's an opportunist piece of garbage.
But what if it's their client who wants it?

"Hey man, can you get me paid without making me look too negative?"

"I'll try man but you might have to miss training camp."

"Sure that's fine."

Even LBJ supports him, and if his power really comes from Lebron, then clearly Lebron holds just as much blame.

Or perhaps they saw what the owner is making off of them and thus doesn't feel bad at all for asking way above market value.

[KirbyPls]

Considering how many people get(in our eyes...talking cap value) brutally overpaid im not sure why id hate him for trying to do the same. He isnt there to be nice. Hes there to maximize his clients income so long as that is their goal. Jr Smith is a 12 year veteran on his 4th or 5th team. He doesnt care what the Cavs feel about him. Hes gonna be retired in a few years living(hopefully) 50 more years off this...his final big contract. He doesnt need to be liked. He needs to get paid. Hes about to have zero earning potential for the rest of his life. **** feelings. That dude isnt thinking about what corporate partners and Miss Jackson from up the street thinks. And he shouldnt. It would be irresponsible for him as a provider to care.

If he can get Lebron to strong arm a team that isnt gonna care if he lives or dies in 4 years to give him 18 million more dollars than he "deserves" he should do it.

Id do it. You would do it.

Why shouldnt he?

I would burn large portions of Cleveland to the ground for 60 million dollars and a sound plan to get away with it and not kill anyone.

I'll call JR Smith a lot of things....but I wont begrudge him trying to squeeze more money out of his one marketable skill.

he doesnt strike me as the type of dude to have saved most of what hes made so far. This is probably his "Time to grow up" deal.

And when its time to grow up....**** everyones feelings. Its time to pad the kids trust fund.

I ****ed over my last job to go where I am now...and it was over an extra 6 thousand dollars a year.

Id let that entire facility sink into the depths of hell for an extra 20 million. I have kids to feed and a mom who wants a new car......

:lol Never change KBlaze. I agree with you FWIW.

[RedBlackAttack]

But what if it's their client who wants it?

"Hey man, can you get me paid without making me look too negative?"

"I'll try man but you might have to miss training camp."

"Sure that's fine."

Even LBJ supports him, and if his power really comes from Lebron, then clearly Lebron holds just as much blame.

Or perhaps they saw what the owner is making off of them and thus doesn't feel bad at all for asking way above market value.
It's odd that Rich Paul always seems to represent the players that want to miss training camp and hold-out way beyond anyone else in the NBA. Just happenstance, I guess?

Wouldn't it be the most shocking turn-of-events ever if LeBron didn't support JR? What's he going to say? Of course he wants JR to make as much money as he can and that's fine with me as well. I'd also like the team to be whole and actually working on chemistry, though.

LeBron is even beginning to go to the press with his annoyance that this is dragging on too, which he hasn't done too often in his career. Should the Cavs just cave and give JR whatever Rich Paul is asking for just because he is holding the team hostage ... again?

And, doesn't the franchise have the right to worry what JR might do when he's under contract for 4-5 years considering his past? This is a guy that the Knicks had to give away Iman Shumpert on a rookie deal and a 1st round pick to avoid paying $6.5 million.

It wasn't 15 years ago... It was in 2015.

Again, I love what JR has brought to the Cavs and I want him to get paid. He deserves to get paid. But, every player in the league could hold-out in an attempt to squeeze every last penny out of whatever franchise they're employed by. Yet, the vast, vast majority of deals are agreed to by the end of July and very few players hold-out this far... into the preseason, even.

Three straight years of Rich Paul being the man behind the hold-out has me questioning how much it has to do with the player being demanding or the team being cheap.

[jrjim]

Seeing the events that transpired this offseason, it seems to me that he got both his clients (thus far) what they deserved. Not sure why that makes him a bad agent

[RedBlackAttack]

Seeing the events that transpired this offseason, it seems to me that he got both his clients (thus far) what they deserved. Not sure why that makes him a bad agent
Just straight up... I don't think it has to come to this. Gilbert has been pretty damn free with his checkbook in the last two years and all of the reports suggest what they're offering is completely fair based on Smith's age, past, and lack of other suitors.

Like I said, I'm all for JR Smith getting paid. I'll be happy for him when the contract is inevitably signed. This didn't need to go to October, just like Tristan didn't have to last year. I'll guarantee you if Rich Paul had come to the table in late July last year with $84 million as his rock bottom dollar amount, it would have been done.

He didn't. He just wanted to hold-out to see how far the Cavs were willing to go and how long he could keep him held out before something had to give. And, it ended up barely moving the needle from what the Cavs initially offered right off the bat in free agency ($82 million).

I don't think it takes much skill as a negotiator to just sideline a guy until it becomes detrimental to everyone involved and then see what's on the table.

[secund2nun]

Um didn't he get Tristan Thompson like $80m+?

Doesn't that make him the best agent in the NBA?

The job of an agent is to get your client the most guaranteed money possible, right?

Lebron is the best agent in the NBA. if not for Lebron Rich Paul would be so loser still selling jerseys out of the trunk of his car.

[egokiller]

Why should he care at all about anything but how much money his player/he himself makes?

Do you care about his children? His happiness? You care about any aspect of his life that doesnt contribute to your enjoyment? Why should he care about you or anyone in the NBA who he doesnt work for?

Why should he care? Because the fans who purchase the tickets and go to the games are the ones that put food on his table. No fans, no NBA. It's that simple. If the fans say hes a POS, then he's a POS period. Why? Because they enable his position to exist in the first place by allowing the NBA to exist. Are you asking why should he care about the hand that feeds him? People seriously need to take a step back and understand the dynamic of cause and effect relationships.

[Kblaze8855]

And....now we hit the entitled section of the discussion.

JR Smith owes you nothing. Zero. JR gets his wealth from the people of the world like everyone else. Doesnt mean everyone with money owes the people who gave it to them. it isnt a charity. Its a purchase. You buy entertainment in the form of tickets, merchandise, views, and ratings. They dont owe you happy good time feelings on top of it because your less marketable skills dont get you 100 million dollars.

Jr doesnt owe me anything because I contribute to his wealth....because my contribution was a purchase not a handout. I got what I paid for. Transaction complete.

The rest is just jealousy. Im a grown ass man. And ive been one before I was a grown ass man. Half the time I dont want what people actually owe me. But im supposed to feel an NBA player owes me for his check because me wanting to watch him play generates it?

That mans money is his own like mine is my own.

I used to work for Toyota. Doesnt mean I owe every Camry owner.

We all produce goods...be they burgers, haircuts, or jump shots. The world buys them at the going rate. The rate for entertainment isnt any higher than most so long as you dont need to see it in person. I pay more for haircuts than to see basketball on tv. ....but guess what? You can reach a lot more customers at once on tv. And people then pay....to advertise their products to those customers you attract.

We contribute individually...in millions of closed transactions for insignificant amounts of money. But the drop becomes the ocean...and players get their cut. But they dont owe us because we get what we paid for...

Childish people just get salty because nobody is gonna pay to watch them drive a forklift so they cant get the ocean effect going.

Then they hate on the rich athletes like idiots telling cops they pay their salary....as if cops dont pay income taxes too....

And funny to me...most players spend more on the NBA than fans.

I bet JR smith buys more tickets than anyone on ISH. Players buy dozens of extra tickets all the time. They have more comprehensive media packages on their tvs. They are tied into the advertising that the NBA itself sells the rights to.

Players even putting aside that they are the product....are bigger customers than most of us. But we dont choose to say JR owes himself. Because...thats stupid.

Just like saying he owes us even after willingly buying a product and getting what we paid for. But jealousy blinds....

[OnFire]

Just straight up... I don't think it has to come to this. Gilbert has been pretty damn free with his checkbook in the last two years and all of the reports suggest what they're offering is completely fair based on Smith's age, past, and lack of other suitors.

Like I said, I'm all for JR Smith getting paid. I'll be happy for him when the contract is inevitably signed. This didn't need to go to October, just like Tristan didn't have to last year. I'll guarantee you if Rich Paul had come to the table in late July last year with $84 million as his rock bottom dollar amount, it would have been done.

He didn't. He just wanted to hold-out to see how far the Cavs were willing to go and how long he could keep him held out before something had to give. And, it ended up barely moving the needle from what the Cavs initially offered right off the bat in free agency ($82 million).

I don't think it takes much skill as a negotiator to just sideline a guy until it becomes detrimental to everyone involved and then see what's on the table.

This brings us to my opinion than agents are a waste of money for NBA players.

What % of 84million did Paul get vs the 82million TT could have collect without an agent?

How about the players this year who's negotiation involved 3 letters. MAX. NBA players are throwing their money away on this scam.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He's a moron and he's terrible.

Dude brain stormed the biggest PR nightmare in modern sports, and did it under the guise of helping youth.

LeBron's desires is his only bargaining chip with management.

[MP.Trey]

He gets his players paid. That's all that matters. He might be the best agent in the NBA.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He gets his players paid. That's all that matters. He might be the best agent in the NBA.
That's LeBron not Rich Paul getting them paid.

[MiseryCityTexas]

BJ Armstrong disagrees with you even though that's Derrick Rose's agent.

[iamgine]

It's odd that Rich Paul always seems to represent the players that want to miss training camp and hold-out way beyond anyone else in the NBA. Just happenstance, I guess?

Wouldn't it be the most shocking turn-of-events ever if LeBron didn't support JR? What's he going to say? Of course he wants JR to make as much money as he can and that's fine with me as well. I'd also like the team to be whole and actually working on chemistry, though.

LeBron is even beginning to go to the press with his annoyance that this is dragging on too, which he hasn't done too often in his career. Should the Cavs just cave and give JR whatever Rich Paul is asking for just because he is holding the team hostage ... again?

And, doesn't the franchise have the right to worry what JR might do when he's under contract for 4-5 years considering his past? This is a guy that the Knicks had to give away Iman Shumpert on a rookie deal and a 1st round pick to avoid paying $6.5 million.

It wasn't 15 years ago... It was in 2015.

Again, I love what JR has brought to the Cavs and I want him to get paid. He deserves to get paid. But, every player in the league could hold-out in an attempt to squeeze every last penny out of whatever franchise they're employed by. Yet, the vast, vast majority of deals are agreed to by the end of July and very few players hold-out this far... into the preseason, even.

Three straight years of Rich Paul being the man behind the hold-out has me questioning how much it has to do with the player being demanding or the team being cheap.
This is just me assuming but I imagine the client holds the power here? So whatever Rich Paul does, it's with the blessing of the client. If that assumption is true, then it would be accurate that the players he represents wants to get paid and are willing to miss training camp and hold out their teams in order to do that. Of course, in the end Rich Paul is the bad guy cause he make it seem like it's his call but that's part of his job.

[HurricaneKid]

Truth is, the Tristan hold-out did very little if any good. The rumored deal right off the bat when the moratorium was lifted was $82 million. He ended up getting a small fraction more and I was fine with the dollar amount. I'm sure the Cavs were fine with giving it to him.

Everything I've witnessed on the outside looking in from Paul is that he doesn't even have a dollar figure or number of years that he demands... he just strong-arms until he can't anymore and then he'll take whatever deal is on the table.

It's amateurish and it could potentially hurt the team. F#ck him. He negotiates like a 5-year-old.

2M extra for taking an extra week of vacation? Where do I sign up? I mean since it did no good.

Paul probably doesn't since he is likely nowhere near this negotiation, or any other one really. The person you guys are all objecting to, and don't even know his name, is Mark Termini. That we are 3 pages in and no one even knows that is pretty damning.

And if I am giving a guy a cut out of my earnings in a market where a massive percentage of the players are broke within a few years, I absolutely want him to claw for every nickel they can. And Termini is doing just that.

And BTW, it didn't exactly work out for the Cavs poorly last season...

[Mr Feeny]

He gets his players paid. That's all that matters. He might be the best agent in the NBA.

Like swish said, thats all lebron. Rich paul himself is an absolute moron. I dont know why someone that brainless if allowed to represent people.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Like swish said, thats all lebron. Rich paul himself is an absolute moron. I dont know why someone that brainless if allowed to represent people.
Because they're buddies and its a way to put his friend on to get paid millions without any work or being good at truly anything. Same thing he did with his neighborhood idol, Maverick Carter.

They're all morons. James however might be a genius because he wants to get his friends paid, and himself too considering he owns the agency.

LeBron is making money on other players contracts and using his heavy leverage as a superstar to get them those deals. He has a rooting interest to manipulate management because he's making himself money in the process.

Who wants a dissatisfied malcontent LeBron? He's already proven he will leave when things aren't going his way. The threat to management is real.

:facepalm

[32MJ32]

As stated often in here already, Rich Paul's job, as an agent, is to get his clients the most money he can.

The very complaint - that he gets his clients more money than teams/fans think they're worth - disproves that he's a bad agent, let alone the worst in the league.

Biggest as*hole in the league? Maybe. I don't know. Let's lineup all the as*holes and decide who wins. That's not the same as being a bad at your job as an agent, player or coach. Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the head for trying too hard at practice.

And as for JR, he played well in major minutes for the NBA champions. His peers, some of whom have almost never been in a meaningful game, are getting paid what he wants. You could make an argument he deserves more than he's asking.

I think he has lowered his price because of the perception (perhaps still correct but maybe outdated) that he's a knucklehead. If he had Kent Bazemore's back story and reputation I think he'd ask for $20m per year. For what reason does Eric Gordon deserve as much or more cash, other than JR undid opponents' shoes all the time for a month and other general, non-talent/basketball related f*ckery?

[D-Wait]

Gotta agree with RBA... these contract "negotiations" are getting annoying as fukk...
I also hate how Lebron puts pressure on the Cavs and acts publicly as if there aren't two parties responsible for this and that he doesn't have anything to do with this holdout...
Time to get this shit done :mad:

[RedBlackAttack]

2M extra for taking an extra week of vacation? Where do I sign up? I mean since it did no good.

Paul probably doesn't since he is likely nowhere near this negotiation, or any other one really. The person you guys are all objecting to, and don't even know his name, is Mark Termini. That we are 3 pages in and no one even knows that is pretty damning.

And if I am giving a guy a cut out of my earnings in a market where a massive percentage of the players are broke within a few years, I absolutely want him to claw for every nickel they can. And Termini is doing just that.

And BTW, it didn't exactly work out for the Cavs poorly last season...
Not sure how many times I have to say it, but the dollar amount isn't my issue. It's the method of getting to that number. You ask an experienced agent and they will tell you that there is a lot of skill involved in negotiating because it takes being able to have the foresight to correctly get to the highest number a franchise is willing to pay for the most amount of years and delivering it for your client. Yes, there are rare occasions where hold-outs/lock-outs happen because the two sides aren't close and can't agree, but that is not the norm.

Tristan getting the Cavs to go from $82 million to $84 million did not require a hold-out. It was an amateurish way of negotiating to produce a fractional increase from the Cavs' opening position.

And I know all about Mark Termini and his employment with LRMR. He and Rich Paul work together so everything I've said applies to him too. That should go without saying. Paul is the main figurehead of the organization along with James.



The very complaint - that he gets his clients more money than teams/fans think they're worth - disproves that he's a bad agent, let alone the worst in the league.


Again, not the complaint. I thought Tristan's contract was perfectly reasonable last year and I have no problem with JR getting paid this year. My problem is with Paul's method of negotiation, which seems to be automatically hold guys out (especially if they play for the Cavs) and see how far you can push the franchise and your friendship with LeBron.

If it doesn't end up getting your client any more than he would have gotten in July? To hell with it. All you've done is potentially sabataged the first month of the season.

I'm fine with a guy holding out in a situation that requires it. Paul abuses the tactic and gets away with it only because LeBron has his back. If he were some random off the street, they'd tell him to present them with a number to get the deal done, or take a long walk off a short pier.

[HurricaneKid]

And I know all about Mark Termini and his employment with LRMR. He and Rich Paul work together so everything I've said applies to him too. That should go without saying. Paul is the main figurehead of the organization along with James.


I doubt you do.

Termini was Jimmy Jackson's agent when he sat out the first 54 games OF HIS ROOKIE YEAR. Termini got him the full seasons salary for that year plus more money than the players taken above him.

HE is the one calling the shots in negotiation. RiPaul is just the owner of the company. I rather despise Rich Paul. But I have a LOT of respect for Termini.

[RedBlackAttack]

I doubt you do.

Termini was Jimmy Jackson's agent when he sat out the first 54 games OF HIS ROOKIE YEAR. Termini got him the full seasons salary for that year plus more money than the players taken above him.

HE is the one calling the shots in negotiation. RiPaul is just the owner of the company. I rather despise Rich Paul. But I have a LOT of respect for Termini.
You doubt what?

Termini is another local product. He's a Holy Name graduate (parochial school in Parma, OH). These guys -- Paul, Termini, Mav Carter -- are all well known names in NE Ohio, at least for those that follow sports closely.

I actually spoke about Termini a good bit during TT's holdout last year.

But, Termini has been an agent for 25+ years and has represented a huge swath of NBA players. Instances like Jimmy Jackson notwithstanding, it is relatively rare for his negotiations to lead to long hold-outs like what we've seen the last three years. It did happen once in a while, but it certainly wasn't the norm.

For Rich Paul and LRMR (Termini by extension), it is becoming the norm. I consider Termini's work with his own agency and what he's doing with Paul are two different animals.

At the end of the day, Termini is employed by Klutch and LRMR. When that agency starts acting more like Termini and Associates, I'll consider the idea that he's the one orchestrating all these hold-outs. Until then, f#ck Rich Paul.

[32MJ32]

Not sure how many times I have to say it, but the dollar amount isn't my issue. It's the method of getting to that number. You ask an experienced agent and they will tell you that there is a lot of skill involved in negotiating because it takes being able to have the foresight to correctly get to the highest number a franchise is willing to pay for the most amount of years and delivering it for your client. Yes, there are rare occasions where hold-outs/lock-outs happen because the two sides aren't close and can't agree, but that is not the norm.

Tristan getting the Cavs to go from $82 million to $84 million did not require a hold-out. It was an amateurish way of negotiating to produce a fractional increase from the Cavs' opening position.

And I know all about Mark Termini and his employment with LRMR. He and Rich Paul work together so everything I've said applies to him too. That should go without saying. Paul is the main figurehead of the organization along with James.




Again, not the complaint. I thought Tristan's contract was perfectly reasonable last year and I have no problem with JR getting paid this year. My problem is with Paul's method of negotiation, which seems to be automatically hold guys out (especially if they play for the Cavs) and see how far you can push the franchise and your friendship with LeBron.

If it doesn't end up getting your client any more than he would have gotten in July? To hell with it. All you've done is potentially sabataged the first month of the season.

I'm fine with a guy holding out in a situation that requires it. Paul abuses the tactic and gets away with it only because LeBron has his back. If he were some random off the street, they'd tell him to present them with a number to get the deal done, or take a long walk off a short pier.

These "take the thing someone is good at away and then see how good they really are!" arguments are my favourite. "If Steph couldn't make 5 contested 3's a game off the dribble at 45%, he'd be a backup point guard!"

Rich Paul does what he does because he can. Cleveland needs to keep LeBron happy, so he uses it as leverage to get his guys paid. That doesn't make him bad at his job. A jerk? Sure - if you think Dan Gilbert deserves money more than Rich Paul and his clients do. Bad? No.

Should he be doing LeBron's laundry and other chores in servitude for the rest of his days as thanks for the free ride to millions? I'd be fine with this, too. That's not what the title of the thread suggests.

[RedBlackAttack]

These "take the thing someone is good at away and then see how good they really are!" arguments are my favourite. "If Steph couldn't make 5 contested 3's a game off the dribble at 45%, he'd be a backup point guard!"

He's definitely good at being LeBron's friend. There is no arguing that.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2004080521180100.jpeg

[scuzzy]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2004080521180100.jpeg
no AD?

[Kblaze8855]

I read one report saying AD, Durant, and Blake are included. I’m sure mark stein will come along and clear it up shortly. He’s been talking about it. Rich is blowing up on Twitter right now.

[scuzzy]

https://i.insider.com/5bd1d8425827d116527d96d4?width=1136&format=jpeg

[FireDavidKahn]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2004080521180100.jpeg

LeFam always eats:bowdown:

[red1]

the posse™®

[LAmbruh]

LeFam always eats:bowdown:


the posse™®

everyone eats :applause:

[red1]

everyone eats :applause:

gonna call my boss tomorrow and renegotiate my quarantine contract - I want 90% of my regular pay to do nothing at home.


cheques better not be late


https://lasentinel.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/01/Rich-Bron_1510848795849_11718585_ver1.0.png

[Kblaze8855]

With Lonzos new deal his clients make about 320 million dollars this season. Second most of any agent.

I don’t know his direct cut but….Rich is eating.

[rawimpact]

Yeah pretty awesome story

Proves you can learn the trade without formal education.