What I Do Not Understand About Jordan's 1st Retirement...

[Koresh]

This is not a thread to bait 3Ball (even though I hate his guts) or to troll.

This is a serious discussion. This thought came into my head while walking home yesterday. We all know Jordan is the most competitive player to ever play in the NBA but this guy retired in 1993 when he was proclaimed the GOAT. I even remember reading magazines and articles saying he was the GOAT in 1993. So, basically, Jordan said in his own words when he won in 1991 that he would have retired. My main gripe is when he first retired in 1993. This guys loves to win. He loves challenges. He loves being competitive. He said he was burned out and he accomplished what he could. I would say "okay" but wouldn't he have had more of a challenge to do something that hasn't been done since the 1960's? By winning 4 titles or even 5 titles in a row? Who was really going to beat the Bulls in 94-95?

I always said to my friends that Jordan could have won in 1995 because the Rockets weren't that good. 1994 is a toss up. I just don't get it. I understand his father died in 1993 but wouldn't that pushed him to have even more fire? Win a title for your father? I know his 4th ring meant more because of what happened the season before and the Bulls bounced back and also they won on Father's Day. I never understood that about Jordan and it's my only gripe about him is when he retired in 1993. He had thoughts of retiring in 1991! Incredible!

That doesn't sound like a competitor to me. I would have been flabbergasted if he would have retired in 1991. That would be the biggest B.S. ever. What do you guys think? It took me years to get over the first retirement as I was living in Park Forest and Champaign in my younger years, so I rooted for the home state. This makes me more upset than him coming back and playing for the Wizards but his years there were overlooked but now being appreciated. I just don't get that mindset of Jordan when he retired the first time. He could have won 8 titles!

[TheWinningFam]

He retired so he wouldn't get suspended. :facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

What he did competitively, trying to become a professional at an entirely different sport. One not played since HS, individually is WAY more difficult than 4 peating.

Which they probably would have in '94.

That's like LeBron or Kobe in the middle of their prime trying to go pro at the NFL or FIFA because no one else could challenge them individually.

Which certainly isn't the case on their part. They haven't dominated unanimously their sport the way Jordan did from '88 to '93.

[HenryGarfunkle]

You summed it up perfectly. Jordan wasn't a competitor. LeBron's greatness and hunger is sustainable much like how the Romans envisioned people should be. He's perpetually in the zone and focused. Jordan was a man of many distractions and addictions. Not a GOAT.

[ClipperRevival]

STFU newbie. Stop trying to pretend like you lived through that era. When you said, "That doesn't sound like a competitor to me", you lost all credibility there LeBron fan. MJ was the GOAT competitor. Admit it, you are a newbie who tried to read up on that era but don't know what actually happened.

The fact is, the walls were closing in on MJ. He was so great, so dominant, so popular, he really lost that urge. He had come off a 3 peat where he was utterly dominant, especially in the playoffs. His father dying also pushed him towards retirement.

You got nothing. He came back at the ages of 32-35 and freaken 3 peated again and had to carry even more of an offensive load in the playoffs, especially in the finals. You mentioned 3 ball. Well, he puts up those playoff numbers regularly. Maybe you should read up.

[Smoke117]

What nonsense...the 94 bulls would have crushed the rockets with Jordan. The 94 Rockets, 94 Knicks, and 94 Bulls were all around the same level as they were. The 95 Rockets are BETTER than the 94 Rockets...they peaked at the perfect time...in the playoffs. Clyde took a lot of pressure off of Hakeem.

[ClipperRevival]

What you youngsters need to realize is that what ultimately made him the GOAT was his ability to RAISE his level of play when it mattered most. He took more names, crushed more souls and sealed the deal better than anyone in history. Everyone loves winners, especially when it was YOU who was most responsible for the winning.

MJ never gave an inch every time he stepped on the court. People saw this. They saw his drive, his will to win, his CONFIDENCE in the crucial moments. That's what it's all about in the end. Do you deliver when it matters most. Can you answer the bell when the heat is at its highest.

[SamuraiSWISH]

No one would dare incite Jordan, the way Klay verbally punked LeBron in the Finals. They were scared of the consequences, this tells you the differing respect levels from your peers.

[Da_Realist]

You answered your own question. He was considered GOAT by 93. What's higher than being #1? MJ felt like his only real competition were Bird and Magic. Once he did something they didn't, he no longer thought the scrutiny was worth it. He wasn't playing for stats, he was playing for status. He defeated all foes, retired and then came back to defeat the new ones that came up.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You answered your own question. He was considered GOAT by 93. What's higher than being #1? MJ felt like his only real competition were Bird and Magic. Once he did something they didn't, he no longer thought the scrutiny was worth it. He wasn't playing for stats, he was playing for status. He defeated all foes, retired and then came back to defeat the new ones that came up.
Truth. He eclipsed Bird and Magic emphatically by 30 years old.

LeBron by comparison has been here since he was 18, 14x seasons deep and about to be 32 years old ... But he still has awhile to go before he catches the "ghost legend in Chi-town" he's been admittedly chasing.

Needs 1x more MVPs plus 3x more rings just to TIE Mike.

:oldlol:

[fourkicks44]

This is not a thread to bait 3Ball (even though I hate his guts) or to troll.

This is a serious discussion. This thought came into my head while walking home yesterday. We all know Jordan is the most competitive player to ever play in the NBA but this guy retired in 1993 when he was proclaimed the GOAT. I even remember reading magazines and articles saying he was the GOAT in 1993. So, basically, Jordan said in his own words when he won in 1991 that he would have retired. My main gripe is when he first retired in 1993. This guys loves to win. He loves challenges. He loves being competitive. He said he was burned out and he accomplished what he could. I would say "okay" but wouldn't he have had more of a challenge to do something that hasn't been done since the 1960's? By winning 4 titles or even 5 titles in a row? Who was really going to beat the Bulls in 94-95?

I always said to my friends that Jordan could have won in 1995 because the Rockets weren't that good. 1994 is a toss up. I just don't get it. I understand his father died in 1993 but wouldn't that pushed him to have even more fire? Win a title for your father? I know his 4th ring meant more because of what happened the season before and the Bulls bounced back and also they won on Father's Day. I never understood that about Jordan and it's my only gripe about him is when he retired in 1993. He had thoughts of retiring in 1991! Incredible!

That doesn't sound like a competitor to me. I would have been flabbergasted if he would have retired in 1991. That would be the biggest B.S. ever. What do you guys think? It took me years to get over the first retirement as I was living in Park Forest and Champaign in my younger years, so I rooted for the home state. This makes me more upset than him coming back and playing for the Wizards but his years there were overlooked but now being appreciated. I just don't get that mindset of Jordan when he retired the first time. He could have won 8 titles!

This thread is the ultimate personification of the term 'rent free'.

[LostCause]

You summed it up perfectly. Jordan wasn't a competitor. LeBron's greatness and hunger is sustainable much like how the Romans envisioned people should be. He's perpetually in the zone and focused. Jordan was a man of many distractions and addictions. Not a GOAT.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

MJ had no challenges, yet came back after he quit with 17 games left in the reg. season to try to win an easy back door ring.

Then he wanted a bigger challenge the following year so the Bulls went out and signed current 4x rebounding champion and current 1st team all-defense Mr. Dennis Rodman.

MJ wanted it harder for himself????

[Jasper]

Jordan felt he had carried the franchise past Detroit , and then won 3 titles.
His lose of his dad was significant.
His dad loved baseball as much as Mike did. (hense he took it up)
*Yes its speculation he could of been suspended from the league , but the league was making a ton of money on this iconic player.

I have always stated - he could of won 9 titles. Year he came back he was rusty , and lost in the playoff's wearing number 45/

Not defending Jordan , who would ever know seriously what he was thinking when he quit on the Bulls the first time , but it is well known he did not like the front office.
even the last year he played with Pip , the next year they could of won another chip if the front office , showed legit concerns for Jackson , Pip as well as their league star Jordan...... it's called respect and money to keep a team together.

[LostCause]

MJ had no challenges, yet came back after he quit with 17 games left in the reg. season to try to win an easy back door ring.

Don't get you goofs

Yal claim on one end MJ retired so he didn't face the Rockets, then the other claim he returned hoping for an easy ring after witnessing the Rockets dominate the Knicks the previous Finals and the rest of the East become stronger and the Bulls were 34-31 when he returned

In what world is joining a 34-31 team considered trying to get an "easy backdoor ring" :roll: Honestly, the suggestion itself just emphasizes Jordans impact, which is even more hilarious given again, yal like to deny that same impact with the 94 season

Yal talk about Kobe fans, but damn. Anyone else contradict their own arguments so much?


Then he wanted a bigger challenge the following year so the Bulls went out and signed current 4x rebounding champion and current 1st team all-defense Mr. Dennis Rodman.

That was a smart move. They had no size upfront losing Grant and Jordan nor Pippen are guarding Shaq. Rodman made sense and if you recall, he wasn't exactly a hot commodity around the league after how badly his Spurs tenure ended


MJ wanted it harder for himself????

Obviously, otherwise he would've jumped ship instead

[3ball]

That doesn't sound like a competitor to me.


A competitor only competes when there is something to compete for... when there is a CHALLENGE

You just said that Jordan was already considered the GOAT in 1993 - so there was nothing for Jordan to play for, no challenge.. Jordan and Phil Jackson state that the lack of challenges is why he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m06s


In the end, the Jordan-haters should be very glad that he took a couple prime years off - that allowed him to return to the pack a bit (although still the best) - that made it more interesting and worth COMPETING FOR.. That's the ultimate, goat competitor - they don't want to play if there's no challenge.

hope that helps... :cheers:

[Smoke117]

A competitor only competes when there is something to compete for... when there is a CHALLENGE

You just said that Jordan was already considered the GOAT in 1993 - so there was nothing for Jordan to play for, no challenge.. Jordan and Phil Jackson state that the lack of challenges is why he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m06s


In the end, the Jordan-haters should be very glad that he took a couple prime years off - that allowed him to return to the pack a bit (although still the best) - that made it more interesting and worth COMPETING FOR.. That's the ultimate, goat competitor - they don't want to play if there's no challenge.

hope that helps... :cheers:

1-9

[Hey Yo]

Yal claim on one end MJ retired so he didn't face the Rockets, then the other claim he returned hoping for an easy ring after witnessing the Rockets dominate the Knicks the previous Finals and the rest of the East become stronger and the Bulls were 34-31 when he returned
Yal??? I don't have a mouse in my pocket. You won't find a post from me saying the above.

MJ had a completely refreshed body when coming back with 17 games left in the 94-95 season. That made them instant contenders to win the ECF.


In what world is joining a 34-31 team considered trying to get an "easy backdoor ring" :roll: Honestly, the suggestion itself just emphasizes Jordans impact, which is even more hilarious given again, yal like to deny that same impact with the 94 season
Correct it does....especially with fresh legs playing against players who've already played 60+ games.

There was only 17 games left in the season. Chicago w/o Jordan would have still easily made the playoffs over the 8th seed 35-47 Celtics and possibly the 7th seed 42-40 Hawks.


Yal talk about Kobe fans, but damn. Anyone else contradict their own arguments so much?
No contradictions here, Chico.


That was a smart move. They had no size upfront losing Grant and Jordan nor Pippen are guarding Shaq. Rodman made sense and if you recall, he wasn't exactly a hot commodity around the league after how badly his Spurs tenure ended

Regardless of what kind of commodity Rodman was, if MJ wanted " bigger challenges" and that's why "he quit the game" then why bring Dennis in at all? Just bring in a run-of-the-mill player to fill that void. Why take a chance of Dennis getting that 5th consecutive rebounding title of 3rd straight 1st team All-Defense appearance like he ended up doing??

Jordan allegedly wanted challenges but all Dennis did was make it easier.



Obviously, otherwise he would've jumped ship instead
He couldn't have. He was still under contract in the 95-96 season. Then the following years, before he quit again, he did what any gambling addict would do.....he took the money.




"he quit because he didn't have any more challenges"

:facepalm

[LostCause]

MJ had a completely refreshed body when coming back with 17 games left in the 94-95 season. That made them instant contenders to win the ECF.

Show me any player who took over a year from the game and came back like they never left

Jordan was clearly rusty and his athleticism was quite different during the 2nd 3peat, this isn't really debatable seeing as his game noticeably changed because of it



Correct it does....especially with fresh legs playing against players who've already played 60+ games.

I won't entertain your ridiculous notion of this somehow negating the fact Jordan wasn't playing in the NBA for over a year, if you wanna make the argument he had "fresh legs", go ahead

The fact you default to that stance shows your agenda, and I have no interest in one of those types of discussions


There was only 17 games left in the season. Chicago w/o Jordan would have still easily made the playoffs over the 8th seed 35-47 Celtics and possibly the 7th seed 42-40 Hawks.

If your best argument is they would've made the playoffs over an 8th or possibly 7th seed then it detracts none from my point. To go from a potential 1st round team to a contender who according to you had an "easy backdoor path to a ring" with 1 addition is serious impact


Regardless of what kind of commodity Rodman was, if MJ wanted " bigger challenges" and that's why "he quit the game" then why bring Dennis in at all? Just bring in a run-of-the-mill player to fill that void. Why take a chance of Dennis getting that 5th consecutive rebounding title of 3rd straight 1st team All-Defense appearance like he ended up doing??

:coleman: ...Are you serious fam? Like, is this a real argument? If so, discuss the troll shit with 3ball or Warriorfan


Jordan allegedly wanted challenges but all Dennis did was make it easier.


Dude won 3 rings in a row. Nothing to prove. Came back, lost once, then did it again

History speaks for itself


No contradictions here, Chico.

Pretty sure I've seen you trying to argue against Jordans impact due to the Bulls in 94 winning 50+ games, so yeah that would be a contradiction to what you're saying now

He couldn't have. He was still under contract in the 95-96 season.

Doesn't mean he had to play for Chicago, and could've easily requested a trade instead of taking on a known headcase who previously ****ed over his last team and hoping for the best


Then the following years, before he quit again, he did what any gambling addict would do.....he took the money.

Like I said, take that 12 year old troll shit elsewhere


"he quit because he didn't have any more challenges"

:facepalm

Don't know when you turned into the resident retard over the last few weeks but whatever works for you, homie. History speaks for itself. Retiring on top of the world for 3 straight years then coming back and doing it again shows a very unique sort of dominance and focus

[Hey Yo]

Show me any player who took over a year from the game and came back like they never left

Jordan was clearly rusty and his athleticism was quite different during the 2nd 3peat, this isn't really debatable seeing as his game noticeably changed because of it
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/watch-michael-jordan-drop-55-points-on-the-knicks-on-this-day-20-years-ago


Michael Jordan made his return to the NBA on March 18th, 1995. Ten days later, he scored 55 points — more than any player had scored in a single game that season — in Madison Square Garden against the Knicks

"clearly rusty" .....:oldlol:



I won't entertain your ridiculous notion of this somehow negating the fact Jordan wasn't playing in the NBA for over a year, if you wanna make the argument he had "fresh legs", go ahead

The fact you default to that stance shows your agenda, and I have no interest in one of those types of discussions

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/watch-michael-jordan-drop-55-points-on-the-knicks-on-this-day-20-years-ago




If your best argument is they would've made the playoffs over an 8th or possibly 7th seed then it detracts none from my point. To go from a potential 1st round team to a contender who according to you had an "easy backdoor path to a ring" with 1 addition is serious impact
It is serious cause he was that good. You'd be hard pressed to find many media types who didn't think Chicago would get to the Finals.



Pretty sure I've seen you trying to argue against Jordans impact due to the Bulls in 94 winning 50+ games, so yeah that would be a contradiction to what you're saying now.
It was more about Scotties at the time than MJ's. Pip getting barely any respect yet he can lead a team to 3-4 less wins w/o MJ than the previous year.

Plus it was about LeBron leaving the Cavs and them going straight down the shitter to where it was just the opposite when MJ quit the first time.



Doesn't mean he had to play for Chicago, and could've easily requested a trade instead of taking on a known headcase who previously ****ed over his last team and hoping for the best
Krause would have never traded MJ....don't be dumb.





Like I said, take that 12 year old troll shit elsewhere
Can't handle the truth??



Don't know when you turned into the resident retard over the last few weeks but whatever works for you, homie. History speaks for itself. Retiring on top of the world for 3 straight years then coming back and doing it again shows a very unique sort of dominance and focus
A guy allegedly quits the league cause he has no more challenges but comes back a year and half later, with only 17reg. season games left and that's the challenge he chose to try to win another title? It what world is that harder than playing a full season?

Would that have been looked at as a legit ring for MJ or would it be an *? Guarantee the worshipers would be saying "7 rings!!!!" right now.

Just the mere thought of "he had no more challenges" as to the reason why he quit is absurd.

[Koresh]

STFU newbie. Stop trying to pretend like you lived through that era. When you said, "That doesn't sound like a competitor to me", you lost all credibility there LeBron fan. MJ was the GOAT competitor. Admit it, you are a newbie who tried to read up on that era but don't know what actually happened.

The fact is, the walls were closing in on MJ. He was so great, so dominant, so popular, he really lost that urge. He had come off a 3 peat where he was utterly dominant, especially in the playoffs. His father dying also pushed him towards retirement.

You got nothing. He came back at the ages of 32-35 and freaken 3 peated again and had to carry even more of an offensive load in the playoffs, especially in the finals. You mentioned 3 ball. Well, he puts up those playoff numbers regularly. Maybe you should read up.

Lol. Dude, I turn 32 in December. I lived in Illinois until I was 18 years old. I don't have to lie about my background anyone here. I think I know what I'm talking about. I followed Jordan's entire career. I'm not some newbie. I read 90% of the threads here for years. I think I know everyone here. Yes, I'm a fan of LeBron but of course people want to drag him into this and it has nothing to do with LeBron. It's about Jordan's competitive nature. What do you say about him contemplating retiring in 1991 huh?

[Da_Realist]

Lol. Dude, I turn 32 in December. I lived in Illinois until I was 18 years old. I don't have to lie about my background anyone here. I think I know what I'm talking about. I followed Jordan's entire career. I'm not some newbie. I read 90% of the threads here for years. I think I know everyone here. Yes, I'm a fan of LeBron but of course people want to drag him into this and it has nothing to do with LeBron. It's about Jordan's competitive nature. What do you say about him contemplating retiring in 1991 huh?

MJ was so much better than everyone else by 91, it's not worth discussing. He proved it the next year with an even better season. His main competiton was Bird and Magic. By 91, Bird was done and Magic was just dethroned.

MJ wasn't worried about anyone else. He had to make up reasons to get hyped about Clyde. In fact, he had to make up reasons to get up for games the rest of his career. MJ was as good as he was ever going to get by 91. No one could match wits with him like Bird and Magic. Once they were gone... it was just about him confirming over and over again what he established by 91.

No need to win as many titles as Magic. No need to build his resume. The fans knew how good he was, he knew how good he was and his competitors knew how good he was. You only need to play every year and pick up every crumb when you know you aren't there yet.

[LostCause]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/watch-michael-jordan-drop-55-points-on-the-knicks-on-this-day-20-years-ago

That's nice

Dropping 55 =/= Coming back like he never left.




"clearly rusty" .....:oldlol:

He averaged 27 on 41%. The lowest FG% of his career and excluding his injured season and his Wizards years, his lowest PPG. He was at 40% on 2P shots, which is the lowest of his CAREER period, 11% lower than it was in 93 and 10% lower than it would be the NEXT season AND the one after that

Use your damn brain. Purely objective evidence



It is serious cause he was that good. You'd be hard pressed to find many media types who didn't think Chicago would get to the Finals.

Cause they thought the Jordan they were getting was the same Jordan they were used to. Almost, but as proven above, not quite


It was more about Scotties at the time than MJ's. Pip getting barely any respect yet he can lead a team to 3-4 less wins w/o MJ than the previous year.

Plus it was about LeBron leaving the Cavs and them going straight down the shitter to where it was just the opposite when MJ quit the first time.

Difference is when Lebron left he's hardly the only notable subtraction and the teams certainly don't retool the very next season as well as the Bulls did



Krause would have never traded MJ....don't be dumb.


MJ was probably the most powerful dude in the NBA, owner or player, period. If he demanded a trade, he would've gotten it




Can't handle the truth??

No point arguing dumb shit like that. Dray-n-klay type nonsense. You're better than that homie (I think)


A guy allegedly quits the league cause he has no more challenges but comes back a year and half later, with only 17reg. season games left and that's the challenge he chose to try to win another title? It what world is that harder than playing a full season?

Would that have been looked at as a legit ring for MJ or would it be an *? Guarantee the worshipers would be saying "7 rings!!!!" right now.

Given the state the Bulls were in when he returned? Why not?

It was already established the Bulls weren't winning a ring without MJ. It was also being shown they overachieved the prior season and were barely above .500 in 95, no one was picking them to win anything that season before Jordan returned

Anyway, you're forgetting Jordan also returned cuz of the MLB strike


Just the mere thought of "he had no more challenges" as to the reason why he quit is absurd.

Jordan could've easily padded his legacy by not retiring, winning 1 or 2 more rings, getting another 2 full seasons of production to boost his career numbers (Fair to say he would've been at 30-33 PPG for 94)

Obviously, challenges arent the only reason he retired. He said himself his pops being murdered made him want to retreat from the public spotlight for a time, and people have their own conspiracy theories about how that related to gambling and whathaveyou, but Jordan himself stated that he had nothing to prove at that point and it was killing his drive.

Denying words from the man himself is whats absurd.