Which Top 10 player has faced the toughest Finals opponents?

[Dray n Klay]

In terms of talent differential between the opposing team, and the players supporting cast.

[jayfan]

In terms of talent differential between the opposing team, and the players supporting cast.

Whatever point is trying to be made, the question should be which player faced the toughest opponents through a given playoff run, not just in the finals.


.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Magic

[Gotterdammerung]

Forget the agenda driven, troll-baiting "top 10" or the "Finals" BS.
:kobe:

I would nominate the Bad Boy Pistons as the team that faced the toughest competition of all-time:

They had to overcome Larry Bird's Celtics, then the standard bearer of the Eastern Conference just to get to the Finals, and then beat the Champs the Showtime Lakers, all the while holding off a rising dynasty in the Jordan Bulls.

Now. THAT. was impressive. :applause:

[GrapeApe]

Forget the agenda driven, troll-baiting "top 10" or the "Finals" BS.
:kobe:

I would nominate the Bad Boy Pistons as the team that faced the toughest competition of all-time:

They had to overcome Larry Bird's Celtics, then the standard bearer of the Eastern Conference just to get to the Finals, and then beat the Champs the Showtime Lakers, all the while holding off a rising dynasty in the Jordan Bulls.

Now. THAT. was impressive. :applause:

Good point. Those Pistons teams had to run a veritable gauntlet of all-time great teams and players. Three top 10 players in Bird, Magic, and Jordan. HOFers McHale, Parrish, Worthy, Pippen, and Drexler (I didn't include Kareem because he was 41 years old). I don't think any championship run(s) can top that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Good point. Those Pistons teams had to run a veritable gauntlet of all-time great teams and players. Three top 10 players in Bird, Magic, and Jordan. HOFers McHale, Parrish, Worthy, Pippen, and Drexler (I didn't include Kareem because he was 41 years old). I don't think any championship run(s) can top that.

Bird missed the entire series & Magic missed the majority of the Finals too

[LostCause]

I think if you're solely looking at Finals opponents, win or lose, Lebron is certainly up there if not arguably at the top

I dont know enough about who faced who in every Finals from before like 82 so I can't really speak to that

[HenryGarfunkle]

Let's see...

LeBron has faced the GOAT coach in 3 finals, arguably the GOAT team in 2 finals, and also another eventual top 10 all-time player (Durant) and two other sure HOFers (Harden, Westbrook) in 1 finals


Hmmm....

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan and then LeBron then Bird / Magic / Kobe

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan and then LeBron then Bird / Magic / Kobe

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[HenryGarfunkle]

:roll:
Dude said JORDAN ( who arguably had the WEAKEST finals opponents of any top 10 great)


Coach with another gem! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dray n Klay]

Dude said JORDAN ( who arguably had the WEAKEST finals opponents of any top 10 great)


Coach with another gem! :roll: :roll:



The Bulls were basically one bad call away from winning the championship WITHOUT Jordan in 1994! :oldlol:



And now Swish wants to act like Jordan faced insurmountable odds in every Finals he faced :roll: :roll:



The Bulls were favorites EVEN WITHOUT MJ

[LostCause]

In terms of talent differential between the opposing team, and the players supporting cast.

Actually i didnt really read the OP, just the thread title

Lebron probably isn't the 1st with those specifications. Spurs in 07 and Cle in 15 come to mind, but Dirk/Hakeem come to mind also (IF you consider Dirk Top 10). Maybe Wilt (Laz I'm sure can shed more light on this)?

[LostCause]

The Bulls were favorites EVEN WITHOUT MJ

Absolutely wrong, they weren't even favorites in 98 WITH MJ, but hey, I'm responding to Dray n Klay

[DaHeezy]

Magic

Easily.
Win or lose.
80's Celtics
Sixers with Doc and Malone
Bad Boy Pistons
Jordan and Pippen Bulls

That has to be the toughest gauntlet in NBA history. Considering he came out on the winning side is awesome on its own

[NBAGOAT]

In general for toughest opponents, I got to agree with people saying magic. Every team he faced was not only a championship team but even considered all time great teams in other years. Every team he faced also had multiple hofers i'm pretty sure besides the 80 and 82 Sixers who were still legit. Kareem is up there for similar reasons and the 70's Celtics are formidable too. Technically, both aren't good answers to the question since showtime was stacked. OP's looking for Lebron and he's up there but I think Hakeem wins since he had the least help for his 3 Finals appearances.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dude said JORDAN ( who arguably had the WEAKEST finals opponents of any top 10 great)


Coach with another gem! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You and Dray-N-Klay piggy back as well as finish one another's sentences or posts like true lovers. It's cute.

Or could be just one of your countless alternates.

Because you're pathetic, and no one engages you in real life, so derive joy in acting like a retard on a message board.

[NBAGOAT]

You and Dray-N-Klay piggy back as well as finish one another's sentences or posts like true lovers. It's cute.

Or could be just one of your countless alternates.

Because you're pathetic, and no one engages you in real life, so derive joy in acting like a retard on a message board.

pretty obvious from how garfunkle talks about durant that he's kiiing's alt or whatever his name is. Don't think it's actually Dray n Klay

[SamuraiSWISH]

pretty obvious from how garfunkle talks about durant that he's kiiing's alt or whatever his name is. Don't think it's actually Dray n Klay
Both are bitch boy, troll losers.

Oh and averaging out the records of teams faced. Excluding the lockout shortened season, since who knows what that translates to if they played a full 82 games.

Jordan in the Finals faced on average a 62 win team.
LeBron in the Finals faced on average a 63 win team.

1 game difference, basically the same quality of opponent. Difference? Mike won all 6 of those, where as LeBron went 2 for 5.

[Dray n Klay]

Both are bitch boy, troll losers.

Oh and averaging out the records of teams faced. Excluding the lockout shortened season, since who knows what that translates to if they played a full 82 games.

Jordan in the Finals faced on average a 62 win team.
LeBron in the Finals faced on average a 63 win team.

1 game difference, basically the same quality of opponent. Difference? Mike won all 6 of those, where as LeBron went 2 for 5.

The difference between them.


Jordan had the GOAT supporting cast


LeBron had the WOAT supporting cast


Literally



http://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

[Dray n Klay]

You think LeBron ever had a Finals supporting cast good enough to win even with him playing like dogshit, like Jordan in '96? :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

So LeBron had the 10th best supporting cast ever, and still lost?

:biggums:

Dat JJ Barrea defense.

[SouBeachTalents]

You think LeBron ever had a Finals supporting cast good enough to win even with him playing like dogshit, like Jordan in '96? :oldlol:

That came pretty close to happening in 2011

[Dray n Klay]

That came pretty close to happening in 2011

Really?? :oldlol:


The Heat LOST in 6 games


The Bulls WON in 6 games


It was literally the complete opposite.








LMAO "pretty close"

[Dray n Klay]

So LeBron had the 10th best supporting cast ever, and still lost?

:biggums:

Dat JJ Barrea defense.

LOL, yup ignore the rest of the list. Just like I thought.

[LostCause]

I really don't see why you keep posting that graphic

Dirks position on it relative to Lebrons in 2011 just kills any sort of point you try to make

[Dray n Klay]

I really don't see why you keep posting that graphic

Dirks position on it relative to Lebrons in 2011 just kills any sort of point you try to make

Because you have the attention span of a goldfish, thats all you see without doing a close analysis.


Nobody has had worse supporting casts than LeBron

[LostCause]

Cause you have the attention span of a goldfish, thats all you see without doing a close analysis.

The part you're missing is that the graphic forces you to acknowledge the fact that Bron lost in his prime to a SIGNIFICANTLY worse team, and had a pretty shitty performance in said series

Sure, it says Jordan has had better supporting casts, but it also reflects badly on Bron. You seem to be too simple-minded to understand this. Gotta take the good with the bad or not take it at all



Nobody has had worse supporting casts than LeBron

So what about Jordan performance in 96 made it shit? His FG%?

[GrapeApe]

You think LeBron ever had a Finals supporting cast good enough to win even with him playing like dogshit, like Jordan in '96? :oldlol:

27/5/4/2 on 54%TS is dogshit?

[Smoke117]

Magic obviously. LOL at swish saying Jordan...jesus christ...the guy just can't ever let the absurd inane bias go.

[EllEffEll]

The 'Finals' makes for a more wide open debate, but if you're talking about an entire playoff run, I would nominate several of those EC teams from the 80's. They had to survive some brutal battles in the conference, and then often go into battle against a more rested Laker team for all the marbles.

The 'top 10' requirement boils it down to either Jordan or Bird for me if it's the entire playoff run, and Bird or Magic if it is just in the Finals. . . .

Using the OP's criteria, I'm going with Magic because the Lakers were in the Finals so many times.

vs. 76ers with Dr. J, Andrew Toney and Moses Malone

vs. Celtics with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parrish

vs. Pistons with Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Rick Mahorn, and Bill Laimbeer

vs. Bulls with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, and the Jordanaires

[Smoke117]

27/5/4/2 on 54%TS is dogshit?

If that's dogshit...then what Lebron did in 2007 and 2011 must be this:

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2015/06/12/12-jurassic-park-poop.w750.h560.2x.jpg

[329 Services]

Kobe had it easiest, because of the finals were being played out west with san antonio and others. Apart from Celtics finals , the rest of finals were against truly poor opposition who only made it to finals because the east is so shit.

Lebron would be other way around, tougher finals and easy early roads out playing in dogshite east

[FreezingTsmoove]

The Jordan had the better team argument is such a shitty argument. It just shows Jordan could get better players to come play with him because he was such a great leader

People always give Bron a pass for having shitty teams but why couldnt he get great players to come play with him?

[SpaceJam]

Damn imagine if prime Kobe had a stacked team like Bron had in 2011 :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

Damn imagine if prime Kobe had a stacked team like Bron had in 2011 :eek:

The '04 Lakers are ranked two spots below, so that might give you a good indication

[SpaceJam]

The '04 Lakers are ranked two spots below, so that might give you a good indication

I'm only f^cking around :oldlol:

2010 and 2006 the most equal finals, team wise?

[Smoke117]

The Jordan had the better team argument is such a shitty argument. It just shows Jordan could get better players to come play with him because he was such a great leader

People always give Bron a pass for having shitty teams but why couldnt he get great players to come play with him?

You realize that Rodman is about the only noteworthy acquisition the Bulls made during Jordan's career there right? That trade also had to be okayed by Pippen to go through. Ron Harper the other noteworthy FA acquisition during the championship period joined in 95 when he was retired. I'm not remarking on Jordan as a leader either way...just saying that most players that ended up on the Bulls were drafted or traded for...there was practically no free agents that joined that mattered.

[bukowski81]

The difference between them.


Jordan had the GOAT supporting cast


LeBron had the WOAT supporting cast


Literally



http://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

Well according to that, Shaq, Magic, Wade, Jordan, Duncan, Dirk and Olajuwon have won with a worst supporting cast than LeBron.

[BedroomBully]

The Bulls were basically one bad call away from winning the championship WITHOUT Jordan in 1994! :oldlol:



And now Swish wants to act like Jordan faced insurmountable odds in every Finals he faced :roll: :roll:



The Bulls were favorites EVEN WITHOUT MJ
Exactly! NEVER, I repeat NEVER were the Bulls underdogs in any of those finals. The road had pretty much been paved for them.

[FreezingTsmoove]

You realize that Rodman is about the only noteworthy acquisition the Bulls made during Jordan's career there right? That trade also had to be okayed by Pippen to go through. Ron Harper the other noteworthy FA acquisition during the championship period joined in 95 when he was retired. I'm not remarking on Jordan as a leader either way...just saying that most players that ended up on the Bulls were drafted or traded for...there was practically no free agents that joined that mattered.

Yeah I do but Rodman is an elite acquisition. Decorated career before he joined the Bulls

[LostCause]

Exactly! NEVER, I repeat NEVER were the Bulls underdogs in any of those finals. The road had pretty much been paved for them.

Except the fact that they were

They were underdogs heading into the 1991 Finals
They were underdogs in 1998

They were underdogs in 93, they weren't even favored to beat the Knicks in the ECF

From 93

The Bulls limped to a 29-15 start and a 57-25 finish, finishing ten wins fewer than the year before. In the Playoff, the Bulls swept through the first two rounds, taking care of the teams they were supposed to beat, the Atlanta Hawks and the Cleveland Cavaliers. The challenge started in the conference finals against the Knicks. Many experts believed this would be the Knicks’ year to finally beat the Bulls due to their defense and their home court.

The Knicks defended their hard-earned home-court advantage by taking a 2-0 series lead. Even though the Bulls pulled through in Game 3, the Knicks had held Jordan to 28.3 PPG on 32.5 % FG shooting. That was about to change in Game 4, as Jordan erupted for 54 points and evened the series at two. New York again held Jordan to a below-average 29 in Game 5, but it was a team effort that kept the Bulls afloat in the Garden. This time, it was B.J. Armstrong who hit the game winning corner three of a pass from Jordan. After a big defensive stand at the other end, the Bulls had a 3-2 lead. At that point, the Knicks’ confidence was shattered. After an easy win in Game 6 back in Chicago, the Bulls became only the fourth team in NBA history to rally from an 0-2 deficit to win a series, an were headed back to the NBA Finals.

The Bulls were set to meet league MVP Charles Barkley and the Suns in the Finals, who like the Knicks were favored to beat Jordan and the Bulls.


The ’93 Bulls got off to a good enough start, but didn’t dominate the way they had the past two years, and at the end of the season found themselves second best in the East behind the rising New York Knicks, and third best overall behind the Barkley-led Suns. Most critics saw both of these teams as legit threats to the Bulls’ dynasty; Sports Illustrated predicted the Knicks and the Suns in the Finals. The Bulls were finished

1998

''I can deal with losing. I just don't want to lose.'' Scottie Pippen added: ''Everyone is expecting the Jazz to walk away with this series. We're underdogs, no question.''
...
Either way, for one of the few times in their five-title run, the Bulls are not overwhelming favorites.
...
''I consider us the underdogs, but yet I still consider us to be champions,'' Jordan said. ''They still have to take it away from us, no matter what people are predicting.''

1991

“We were the underdogs,” noted Levingston. “Everyone said we couldn’t do it, it being the first time going to the Finals. We didn’t know what it was like. The first game we bought into that and we played unsure. After that we went back to the way we played and it seemed the game became easier and slowed down.

Yal stat-nerds need to actually learn the history of the game. Basketball-reference doesn't tell you who the underdogs are. If you don't know, ask someone or use google before making yourselves look stupid

As for the road being paved, its been proven that among Jordan, Kobe and Lebron, that the toughest road to the Finals goes Kobe > Jordan > Lebron

[egokiller]

Because you have the attention span of a goldfish, thats all you see without doing a close analysis.


Nobody has had worse supporting casts than LeBron

:roll: Quiet troll. Lebron played on a team that helped him get a 27 game winning streak, which is what, the 2nd longest winning streak in a single season in NBA history? :roll:

[Dray n Klay]

egokiller = Straight_Ballin