Student Debt

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.surlytrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tumblr_mmtl4hBeA71qcn1hxo1_1280.jpg

http://www.truthdig.com/images/cartoonuploads/133975_600.jpeg

http://www.whatamimissinghere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/111785-College-Debt-Bubble-by-John-Cole-The-Scranton-Times-Tribune.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/47/62/ce/4762ce7eb4c46d57978517efdf701e65.jpg

https://aftertheknot.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/student-loan-meme.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/04/ce/f8/04cef8aa267c6f59197807be026f3865.jpg

[UK2K]

http://www.motherjones.com/files/StudentDebt_2.gif

But you know what, as a country, we will do?

Continue to offer stupid ass degrees that benefit nobody and encourage stupid ass kids to pursue them. Cause that's what we are good at here in the States...

Incompetence and stupidity. :oldlol:

[Draz]

I pay every penny for my tuition. Ongoing my BS degree currently, and I need a total of $28k minimum for my masters degree. I'm FCKEDDDDDDDDDD

[Jameerthefear]

Thank goodness for merit scholarships

[InfiniteBaskets]

But you know what, as a country, we will do?

Continue to offer stupid ass degrees that benefit nobody and encourage stupid ass kids to pursue them. Cause that's what we are good at here in the States...

Incompetence and stupidity. :oldlol:

How much of this is really "Incompetence and stupidity" by the academic industry as opposed to capitalism?

Assume that roughly 50-60% of all college degrees are directly related and beneficial to a career, say nursing, teaching, accounting, computer science.

If a school simply slashed the remaining 'worthless' degrees, there's a big gap in the amount of students that will transfer to one of those career launchpad degrees and those who will just simply drop out of school.

For those that would drop out of school and work at McDonald's or Starbucks, well why not have them pay your University $80K first by just keeping those worthless degrees around? It's not like there's any penalties by the government.

The real ignorance comes from the families of those 17 and 18 year olds who are applying to Universities for non-career bound degrees.

[UK2K]

How much of this is really "Incompetence and stupidity" by the academic industry as opposed to capitalism?

Assume that roughly 50-60% of all college degrees are directly related and beneficial to a career, say nursing, teaching, accounting, computer science.

If a school simply slashed the remaining 'worthless' degrees, there's a big gap in the amount of students that will transfer to one of those career launchpad degrees and those who will just simply drop out of school.

For those that would drop out of school and work at McDonald's or Starbucks, well why not have them pay your University $80K first by just keeping those worthless degrees around? It's not like there's any penalties by the government.

The real ignorance comes from the families of those 17 and 18 year olds who are applying to Universities for non-career bound degrees.

That is who I was referring to...

If there is a demand for *** Sucking degrees, I have no doubt (and no problem) with a school offering such a program, because supply and demand.

My point was more to the people who encourage their kids to pursue liberal arts degrees; the type of degrees that don't transition to the real world in any way.

[Long Duck Dong]

I don't see the big deal if you work hard. I took on $80,000 worth of debt at 18% interest when I was 24 and paid it off in 2 years.

[UK2K]

I don't see the big deal if you work hard. I took on $80,000 worth of debt at 18% interest when I was 24 and paid it off in 2 years.

The big deal is...


List of the Top 200 Most Popular Degrees & Programs


Rank Program Name Total Degrees Awarded
#1 Business Administration 314,345
#2 Liberal Arts 292,741
#3 Nursing 221,895
#4 Psychology 125,880
#5 General Studies 103,665



Too many people get degrees that hold absolutely no value in the real world. You could argue that someone with a psychology degree likely has a worthless piece of paper as well unless they pursue an MBA.

[Draz]

I have my associates in liberal arts. Reason being, for my BS program in social work all the credits easily transfer. All I need is an additional 60 credits.

[~primetime~]

Hillary's main platform is basically fixing this situation.

Paying off everyone's student debt using tax money from the elite wealth.

http://www.studentdebtrelief.us/forgiveness/hillary-clinton-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/

[Doomsday Dallas]

Too many people get degrees that hold absolutely no value in the real world.

I designed this very simple graph to elaborate on that:

http://startupsutras.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/rakesh.jpg

[UK2K]

I designed this very simple graph to elaborate on that:

http://startupsutras.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/rakesh.jpg

Truth...

Its not what you know, its who you know. Its always been like that.

[UK2K]

Hillary's main platform is basically fixing this situation.

Paying off everyone's student debt using tax money from the elite wealth.

http://www.studentdebtrelief.us/forgiveness/hillary-clinton-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/

50/50 shot she means it... :oldlol:


In the second presidential debate between Clinton and Trump, aired live Sunday, Clinton was asked about some of her leaked speech transcripts published by WikiLeaks. In particular, the Democrat candidate was asked about a remark she made that “you need both a public and a private position.”

Publicly, it gets her votes. Privately? She's not going to pay extra for your bad choices.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Truth...

Its not what you know, its who you know. Its always been like that.


Also...

it's important to remember...

http://imoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/5-Training-Day-quotes.gif

[rufuspaul]

My point was more to the people who encourage their kids to pursue liberal arts degrees; the type of degrees that don't transition to the real world in any way.


I have a liberal arts degree. :D

[~primetime~]

https://www.edvisors.com/media/images/article-charts/mean-annual-earnings-by-educational-attainment.jpg

^^^ that's why people still pay for it


It should also be noted, that even with today's high prices, the average bachelors degree still results in an enormous profit. It's still very much worth the money.

The average college grad makes well over $1m over his life. The average high school only is around $580k lifetime. It's definitely a great investment to make if college is just $80k

[Hawker]

https://www.edvisors.com/media/images/article-charts/mean-annual-earnings-by-educational-attainment.jpg

^^^ that's why people still pay for it


It should also be noted, that even with today's high prices, the average bachelors degree still results in an enormous profit. It's still very much worth the money.

The average college grad makes well over $1m over his life. The average high school only is around $580k lifetime. It's definitely a great investment to make if college is just $80k

If that's the case, looks like these people should have no problem paying off the college debt they accrued and the "crisis" is really just overblown.

[Hawker]

I have a liberal arts degree. :D

Was it always your plan to become a dentist after attaining your liberal arts degree?

[UK2K]

If that's the case, looks like these people should have no problem paying off the college debt they accrued and the "crisis" is really just overblown.

My thoughts exactly...

Which is it?

[~primetime~]

If that's the case, looks like these people should have no problem paying off the college debt they accrued and the "crisis" is really just overblown.
College is still significantly more than its ever been and getting worse.

IIRC college cost increases like 5% a year while wages are increasing like 1% (something like that)

It does need be dealt with.



It would also be a tremendous boost to the economy if people got out of that debt, so it is in ALL of our best interest

[UK2K]

I have a liberal arts degree. :D

Speaking in generalities :oldlol:

My girlfriend's mother also has a liberal arts degree, which she got before attending law school at Vandy.

[UK2K]

College is still significantly more than its ever been and getting worse.

IIRC college cost increases like 5% a year while wages are increasing like 1% (something like that)

It does need be dealt with.



It would also be a tremendous boost to the economy of people got our of that debt, so it is in ALL of our best interest

Stop offering government aid...

Use that money to make vocational school free.

Problem solved.

[~primetime~]

Stop offering government aid...

Use that money to make vocational school free.

Problem solved.

You can plead your case to Hillary :D

[UK2K]

You can plead your case to Hillary :D

She'll just tell me what I want to hear until I vote for her...

Then she'll do what she wants.

'Super-predators' :oldlol: That still cracks me up.

[Rocketswin2013]

My thoughts exactly...

Which is it?
living costs...

[UK2K]

living costs...

You mean wants vs needs?

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.studentdebtrelief.us/forgiveness/hillary-clinton-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/


The government is mainly to blame for the rising tuition costs...

And now we are going to have the government solve a problem they helped create for the price of $350 Billion? :confusedshrug:

Looks like a big mess... just like Obamacare.

But whatever... I'm sure it will help people out very very very temporarily.



What's wrong with Trump's plan/views (http://www.studentdebtrelief.us/donald-trump-on-the-student-loan-crisis/)?

Less Government.


[QUOTE]Trump has stated that he does not want the federal government profiting off of student loans any longer (and blames government for driving up tuition costs)

He thinks the Department of Education could

[UK2K]

And now we are going to have the government solve a problem they helped create for the price of $350 Billion? :confusedshrug:



Rinse and repeat for the last 100 years...

[~primetime~]

Trump wants to give the wealthy MORE tax breaks

The wealth gap is already bigger than it's ever been since the Great Depression

Hillary wants to tax the wealthy and pump it into the middle class via college debt relief , it's so obvious

[1manfastbreak]

As someone mentioned before, it really a lot more of "who you know" versus "what you know".

It also doesn't matter what your degree is in, as long as you can prove to whoever is looking to hire you that you have a real interest in the field and can learn how to do the job correctly.

[UK2K]

Trump wants to give the wealthy MORE tax breaks

The wealth gap is already bigger than it's ever been since the Great Depression

Hillary wants to tax the wealthy and pump it into the middle class via college debt relief , it's so obvious

That's what she told you...


Remarks from John Podesta's hacked email reveal that Clinton is much more cozy with Wall Street than she has admitted. Podesta is Clinton's campaign manager. The remarks were leaked on Friday.

In her statements, for which she was paid upwards of $3 million, Clinton told Wall Street insiders that they were the best ones to regulate the banking industry. She referred to them as the "smartest people".

The remarks are at odds with Clinton's attempt to portray herself as a progressive. She is clearly an establishment insider. And she obviously did not release the remarks because they would reveal her hypocrisy.

Not what she tells Wall Street. :oldlol:

[sixerfan82]

Paid mine off in full earlier this year

:pimp:

[Doomsday Dallas]

Trump wants to give the wealthy MORE tax breaks

The wealth gap is already bigger than it's ever been since the Great Depression

Hillary wants to tax the wealthy and pump it into the middle class via college debt relief , it's so obvious


I'm willing to bet it will be just like Obamacare...

People won't get the relief that they'll be expecting.

it will only help a certain percentage of people, $350 Billion will be filtered through so much bull$hit it will equate to a much lower figure of what's actually getting pumped into the middle class.

And most importantly... We are rewarding the people who decided not to pay back their debt.
We are helping the quote on quote "deplorables" in this case.

[~primetime~]

It is in percentages yes, there are forms you can fill out now to show what it will save you.

For a family with 2 kids we will pay $150 a month vs $900 a month for my wife's college debt.

It's different for everyone

And all debt that is over 20 years old is completely forgiven.

If you have kids that are gearing up for college, you should be doing backflips for Hillary right now

[~primetime~]

What's really sad is that this is basically Hillarys main platform and a lot of people don't even know it.

The general public only knows...wiki leaks, tapes, grab pssy, etc :facepalm

[rufuspaul]

Was it always your plan to become a dentist after attaining your liberal arts degree?

Yes.



Hillary wants to tax the wealthy and pump it into the middle class

You can't tax a nation into prosperity. If you want more from the rich change the tax code. If you want to hurt the middle class more raise taxes.

[rufuspaul]

I'm willing to bet it will be just like Obamacare...

People won't get the relief that they'll be expecting.

it will only help a certain percentage of people, $350 Billion will be filtered through so much bull$hit it will equate to a much lower figure of what's actually getting pumped into the middle class.

And most importantly... We are rewarding the people who decided not to pay back their debt.
We are helping the quote on quote "deplorables" in this case.

This. The causes of tuition hikes need to be understood and then dealt with. Hillary is paying lip service to the effects, not the cause.

[Hawker]

College is still significantly more than its ever been and getting worse.

IIRC college cost increases like 5% a year while wages are increasing like 1% (something like that)

It does need be dealt with.



It would also be a tremendous boost to the economy if people got out of that debt, so it is in ALL of our best interest
Sounds like a wage/degree problem rather than a college problem. Do you think the government should get rid of everyone's debt no matter what it is?

[Hawker]

Yes.




You can't tax a nation into prosperity. If you want more from the rich change the tax code. If you want to hurt the middle class more raise taxes.
And that's why you aren't a Hillary supporter. You actually planned instead of expecting a degree after graduating.

[~primetime~]

Sounds like a wage/degree problem rather than a college problem. Do you think the government should get rid of everyone's debt no matter what it is?
No it won't work like that, no one will get 100% free college

[~primetime~]

Yes.




You can't tax a nation into prosperity. If you want more from the rich change the tax code. If you want to hurt the middle class more raise taxes.
she's doing that TOO

The loop holes that the wealthy use to not pay taxes? Gone

[~primetime~]

IIRC Hilldawg says she will generate an extra $350 BILLION from closing loop holes to the top 1%

They have all the money...and they aren't paying taxes

[Doomsday Dallas]

And all our jobs will be going overseas.

The wealthy are gonna close shop and bounce.

This is what happens when you vote for socialism.

http://overpassesforamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/hillaryposter.jpg

[Hawker]

IIRC Hilldawg says she will generate an extra $350 BILLION from closing loop holes to the top 1%

They have all the money...and they aren't paying taxes

She said it so you know its 100% going to happen. Politicians never say shit and do another.

:rolleyes:

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://blog.joehuffman.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/SeanStrongerTogether.jpg

http://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2015/10/newsweek-all-socialists.jpg

[~primetime~]

A large segment of the elite wealthy (Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc) are on her side.

The wealthy know they need a thriving middle class to make them wealthy

[Doomsday Dallas]

Maybe this would have been a more appropriate headline:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lG1-_Q4PaSE/T-9QtWu4beI/AAAAAAAAAV0/FMR1Jtx8LQQ/w1200-h630-p-nu/newsweekWhores.jpg

[edb33]

A large segment of the elite wealthy (Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc) are on her side.

The wealthy know they need a thriving middle class to make them wealthy


PT, a simple yes or no will suffice. Do you honestly believe the 1% of the 1% spent their entire lives learning financial education strategies to make themselves the richest people on the planet just so they can give it to the government instead of dispersing it how they see fit?

[~primetime~]

PT, a simple yes or no will suffice. Do you honestly believe the 1% of the 1% spent their entire lives learning financial education strategies to make themselves the richest people on the planet just so they can give it to the government instead of dispersing it how they see fit?
The top 1% should have planned on paying taxes

All Hillary wants to do is close the loop holes, the top 1% isn't paying taxes. Trump hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, and he is far from the only one.

The top 1% have all the money, and they aren't paying their share.

[~primetime~]

Let me also say this...no one in here should be fighting for the top 1%. Fight for YOUR pockets, not theirs.

If you are fighting for them to have more money right now?...kill yourself

[falc39]

She said it so you know its 100% going to happen. Politicians never say shit and do another.

:rolleyes:

With Hillary you always gotta ask if it's her public policy position or private policy position :lol

[~primetime~]

See Trump supporters KNOW it's the better plan...so they have to resort to "she isn't really going to do that, she is lying!"

But all her stuff is laid out in great detail already...it's ready to go

[UK2K]

See Trump supporters KNOW it's the better plan...so they have to resort to "she isn't really going to do that, she is lying!"
I'm just pointing out that she lies repeatedly. Remember? Trump is disgusting for being friendly to Putin (her public position) while in private, she was more than welcoming to him (her private position).


But all her stuff is laid out in great detail already...it's ready to go

Which sounds really awesome until you realize she has been telling Wall Street the exact opposite.

[edb33]

The top 1% should have planned on paying taxes

All Hillary wants to do is close the loop holes, the top 1% isn't paying taxes. Trump hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, and he is far from the only one.

The top 1% have all the money, and they aren't paying their share.


We do plan on paying taxes and in fact pay way more than the average citizen. Anybody can claim a loss and receive a tax break from it, it just so happens that we use it more because we invest more which is clearly good for the economy. Trump hasn't paid taxes in x amount of years because of stretching out a write off from years ago, a person who makes 20k a year can do the exact same thing just on a relative scale. Why should I have to pay more because someone else didn't educate themselves? I already pay a higher % of my income than the average american and I continue to learn and grow my money, why should I be forced to pay even more because someone else didn't do that?

If you honestly believe Cuban, Gates or Buffet randomly decided they would prefer to give their money to the government instead of letting it grow or dispersing it how they see fit than I can't help you. You're missing the big picture here. Fyi I don't like Trump, I'm just bothered by this simple thought process

[senelcoolidge]

Hillary's is not going to pay your student debt..she even said it.

[~primetime~]

We do plan on paying taxes and in fact pay way more than the average citizen. Anybody can claim a loss and receive a tax break from it, it just so happens that we use it more because we invest more which is clearly good for the economy. Trump hasn't paid taxes in x amount of years because of stretching out a write off from years ago, a person who makes 20k a year can do the exact same thing just on a relative scale. Why should I have to pay more because someone else didn't educate themselves? I already pay a higher % of my income than the average american and I continue to learn and grow my money, why should I be forced to pay even more because someone else didn't do that?

If you honestly believe Cuban, Gates or Buffet randomly decided they would prefer to give their money to the government instead of letting it grow or dispersing it how they see fit than I can't help you. You're missing the big picture here. Fyi I don't like Trump, I'm just bothered by this simple thought process

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clintons-tax-plan-backed-by-warren-buffett-1450316516

[QUOTE]OMAHA, Neb.

[edb33]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clintons-tax-plan-backed-by-warren-buffett-1450316516

We already do that so?? Buffett is leaving all his money to charity, he has given very little to politics over the years and continues to do so now. Notice how little he donates to Hillary but asks others to do so? He's made it clear he believes money and government should be separated but you can continue to believe he has completely changed his stance and would much rather give his money to the government now instead of charity.

Gates is obsessed with vaccines and the science behind it. Hillary as always pushed this also. That's his motivation for voting for her. He could care less about taxes at this point

Cuban is clearly moving his way into politics and originally was behind Trump. What changed? Maybe the fact if we elect one billionaire realty tv star and he sucks then we won't try another. I've met Cuban personally a few times, been to seminars he spoke at and have read almost everything the guy has released. The guy despises taxes. He has a political agenda to push Clinton.

I totally agree people should look at what benefits them and not anybody else. The 1% of the 1% will be stay in this bracket regardless of who becomes potus and what changes. It's the ability to learn and adapt that got them there. The lower end of the 1% is who will suffer. The people who make 500k to 1mm because they learned a skill that pays well. These people who dominate the small business market will be overwhelmed and begin to lay people off to handle the load. Now the lower middle class suffers the most while the rich still get richer.

The simplest way I can put it I guess is if you're at the top nothing will take you from it because your financial education will carry you forward. Trump or Hillary will not hurt them.

The lower 1% and upper middle class suffer from Hillary and prosper with Trump

Lower middle class and below will continue to suffer regardless who is potus because they chose not to financially educate themselves.

[CelticBaller]

I pay every penny for my tuition. Ongoing my BS degree currently, and I need a total of $28k minimum for my masters degree. I'm FCKEDDDDDDDDDD
get a job in your field first, have them help you with your masters

[~primetime~]

We already do that so?? Buffett is leaving all his money to charity, he has given very little to politics over the years and continues to do so now. Notice how little he donates to Hillary but asks others to do so? He's made it clear he believes money and government should be separated but you can continue to believe he has completely changed his stance and would much rather give his money to the government now instead of charity.

Gates is obsessed with vaccines and the science behind it. Hillary as always pushed this also. That's his motivation for voting for her. He could care less about taxes at this point

Cuban is clearly moving his way into politics and originally was behind Trump. What changed? Maybe the fact if we elect one billionaire realty tv star and he sucks then we won't try another. I've met Cuban personally a few times, been to seminars he spoke at and have read almost everything the guy has released. The guy despises taxes. He has a political agenda to push Clinton.

I totally agree people should look at what benefits them and not anybody else. The 1% of the 1% will be stay in this bracket regardless of who becomes potus and what changes. It's the ability to learn and adapt that got them there. The lower end of the 1% is who will suffer. The people who make 500k to 1mm because they learned a skill that pays well. These people who dominate the small business market will be overwhelmed and begin to lay people off to handle the load. Now the lower middle class suffers the most while the rich still get richer.

The simplest way I can put it I guess is if you're at the top nothing will take you from it because your financial education will carry you forward. Trump or Hillary will not hurt them.

The lower 1% and upper middle class suffer from Hillary and prosper with Trump

Lower middle class and below will continue to suffer regardless who is potus because they chose not to financially educate themselves.

EVERYONE benefits from a thriving economy, the poor, the middle class, and the rich. Everyone is a winner

Currently the wealth gap is such that it's crippling the economy. The wealthy hold all the money, and they aren't contributing taxes.

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20141108_FNC156.png


^^^ the last time it was like it is now, was the great depression

The intelligent rich out there (like Buffett) understand this situation must be dealt with. It's in no one's best interest for the middle class to just disappear, then there would be no one left to purchase the wealthy's products.

[edb33]

get a job in your field first, have them help you with your masters


Which is the smart way to go about it but won't be a possibility soon unless you work for a huge company because the small ones will be taxed to the point they can't offer incentives or straight go out of business. I made it through college debt free, my wife made it debt free, plenty of friends made it through debt free.

There's several programs and incentives in place for this already. Simply because people chose not to use them or decided on a useless degree from an expensive university shouldn't mean we should make others pay for their ignorance. As a matter of fact, there's programs in place that will not only pay for your education but also pay your bills while you're going to college yet people don't spend the time to learn this

[Bosnian Sajo]

You gotta be stupid to waste $80k on a bachelors degree, what school are you guys referring to? Graduate program at a top 10 business school like Kellogg or Columbia, I understand (even then, it's $60k for an MBA from Harvard, top school). But bachelors degree??

Most of us are eligible for financial aid, which will take care of your Bachelors program, FOR FREE (most of the time, you get a decent amount of money left over each semester, so you're essentially getting paid to go to school).

When it comes to Masters programs, you could go for your MBA at UF (#34 in the nation) for $16k.


If you're wasting $80k on school (Bachelors/Masters programs), you're doing it wrong my friend. Nobody to blame but yourself and your stupidity, don't go out of state and blow your cash on bullshit.

[edb33]

EVERYONE benefits from a thriving economy, the poor, the middle class, and the rich. Everyone is a winner

Currently the wealth gap is such that it's crippling the economy. The wealthy hold all the money, and they aren't contributing taxes.

^^^ the last time it was like it is now, was the great depression

The intelligent rich out there (like Buffett) understand this situation must be dealt with. It's in no one's best interest for the middle class to just disappear, then there would be no one left to purchase the wealthy's products.

I agree most benefit from a thriving economy but what you're not seeing is paying off the debt of the middle class by using funds from the upper middle class (which is what the lower 1% truly is) doesn't create a thriving economy. It shuts down the small business which leaves a monopoly for the large business. Hints why large companies like her plan

And just to clarify, there is not a top amount to how much money we have. The wealthy can't hold it all because we will just keep printing it as need be since we no longer have a gold standard. Which means, everybody in this country is free to make however much they chose therefore the wealth gap isn't the wealthiest persons fault but rather the ones below them not doing what is necessary to get to that level. The middle class disappearing is the fault of the middle class, most chose to continue buying instead of saving or finding other avenues to earn therefore they fell down the ladder. Others saw the importance and climbed out of the middle

[~primetime~]

My wife just finished her masters...she holds $60k in student debt...makes $900 a month payments.

THAT SAID, we both foresee her making six figures 4-5 years down the road. So it was well worth it.


The problem is that $900 a month holds her down from doing anything. If she wasn't living with me, she would be forced to live at home with her parents.

Hillary's plan will reduce her payments to $150 a month. Giving her the ability to breathe. And her story matches the story of millions out there. Held down by student debt, can't do anything. And freeing that up for everyone will most certainly be a huge jump to the economy.

[~primetime~]

I agree most benefit from a thriving economy but what you're not seeing is paying off the debt of the middle class by using funds from the upper middle class (which is what the lower 1% truly is) doesn't create a thriving economy. It shuts down the small business which leaves a monopoly for the large business. Hints why large companies like her plan

And just to clarify, there is not a top amount to how much money we have. The wealthy can't hold it all because we will just keep printing it as need be since we no longer have a gold standard. Which means, everybody in this country is free to make however much they chose therefore the wealth gap isn't the wealthiest persons fault but rather the ones below them not doing what is necessary to get to that level. The middle class disappearing is the fault of the middle class, most chose to continue buying instead of saving or finding other avenues to earn therefore they fell down the ladder. Others saw the importance and climbed out of the middle
They hold a %

right now they hold more than the bottom 90%

[edb33]

My wife just finished her masters...she holds $60k in student debt...makes $900 a month payments.

THAT SAID, we both foresee her making six figures 4-5 years down the road. So it was well worth it.


The problem is that $900 a month holds her down from doing anything. If she wasn't living with me, she would be forced to live at home with her parents.

Hillary's plan will reduce her payments to $150 a month. Giving her the ability to breathe. And her story matches the story of millions out there. Held down by student debt, can't do anything. And freeing that up for everyone will most certainly be a huge jump to the economy.


I don't mean this as an insult to your wife but she CHOSE to be 60k in debt. My wife has a masters degree and college cost her an average of $400 a semester after using the programs already in place to help people get through school. So now you're essentially saying my wife has to pay for your wife to go to school because your wife didn't take advantage of the current breaks available. You see how foolish that sounds?

On top of that, your wife will now be in an even more competitive job market hoping to get employed because smaller companies can't afford to pay her any longer after their taxes shot up to pay for her school so she is forced to fight everyone to work at the largest companies who now pay less because of supply and demand. The real winner here? Large corporations not you

[~primetime~]

I don't mean this as an insult to your wife but she CHOSE to be 60k in debt. My wife has a masters degree and college cost her an average of $400 a semester after using the programs already in place to help people get through school. So now you're essentially saying my wife has to pay for your wife to go to school because your wife didn't take advantage of the current breaks available. You see how foolish that sounds?

On top of that, your wife will now be in an even more competitive job market hoping to get employed because smaller companies can't afford to pay her any longer after their taxes shot up to pay for her school so she is forced to fight everyone to work at the largest companies who now pay less because of supply and demand. The real winner here? Large corporations not you
Wait, how is YOUR wife paying for my wife's degree again?

I don't think you understand...Hillary is going to create an additional $350 BILLION in tax revenue simply by making the rich pay the taxes they should have been paying all along! Again, Trump hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, and there are many more like him. THAT money is the money that will be used to aid student debt, not your wife's salary. Hillary will be taxing the elite rich (what they already should have been taxed) and then pumping that money directly into the middle class through college debt help. Understand now?

[edb33]

They hold a %

right now they hold more than the bottom 90%

Which means the 90% need to stop wishing the wealthy will give them their money or praying the government will force them to and get to work.

Again you only highlighted a small portion of what I wrote. This will tax out smaller companies leading to a monopoly for larger companies to raise prices and lower wages. You're focused on a 150 bucks a month thinking it's what is best for you and not realizing it will cost you much more in the end.

[~primetime~]

The thought process of of "oh well, it's their fault, too bad for them, maybe everyone will do better next time" is not a logical way to go about it.

The system is breaking and needs updating.

[edb33]

Wait, how is YOUR wife paying for my wife's degree again?

I don't think you understand...Hillary is going to create an additional $350 BILLION in tax revenue simply by making the rich pay the taxes they should have been paying all along! Again, Trump hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, and there are many more like him. THAT money is the money that will be used to aid student debt, not your wife's salary. Hillary will be taxing the elite rich (what they already should have been taxed) and then pumping that money directly into the middle class through college debt help. Understand now?


I understand fully what you believe is the case but that doesn't make it reality. It's not tax loop holes strictly for the rich, anybody can use them. It's not even a loophole, capitol loss is part of the tax code for all to use. Many small companies only survive because of this therefore eliminating capitol loss means they will go out of business which eliminates the competition for the wealthy. That's why they are for it. I pay 39.6% in taxes for everything over 415k, 35% on another 100k, 28% on another 100k, before I even get to the average American's level of 25%. How am I not paying taxes again?

We pay WAY more than average but if we lose money in an investment we can write that off, so can joe smo who works at 7-11 yet he pays a way less % of taxes than me. Same for Trump, Gates, Cuban, etc.. We already pay more by % of income and straight dollar amount and now you are wanting to raise it even more because your wife didn't take advantage of the benefits we already have in place because you believe saving $150 a month now is more beneficial than her having a healthy job market where her worth is more

[edb33]

The thought process of of "oh well, it's their fault, too bad for them, maybe everyone will do better next time" is not a logical way to go about it.

The system is breaking and needs updating.


I agree but hand outs aren't a solution, it's never worked on any level in the history of ever. Teach a man to fish...

Her solution is to hurt the ones who just broke out of the middle class by taxing them back down and forcing everyone below them to go work for the only option left which is big business. This actually sounds more like it would be Trump's plan as he is a big believer in monopoly. His plan doesn't work either btw but it is more positive to the middle class than hers

[~primetime~]

From what I am understanding the loop hole being closed is not capital lost. Trump used a different loop hole, the money he lost ($900m) was not his money, it was investor money.

Regardless, if anyone rich or poor is avoiding taxes completely from an unintentional loop hole, it needs to be closed.

[~primetime~]

I agree but hand outs aren't a solution, it's never worked on any level in the history of ever. Teach a man to fish...

Her solution is to hurt the ones who just broke out of the middle class by taxing them back down and forcing everyone below them to go work for the only option left which is big business. This actually sounds more like it would be Trump's plan as he is a big believer in monopoly. His plan doesn't work either btw but it is more positive to the middle class than hers
I disagree

His plan of giving the rich even more tax breaks would widen the wealth gap even more resulting in another depression.

Hills plan will boost the economy, making it beneficial for all

[edb33]

From what I am understanding the loop hole being closed is not capital lost. Trump used a different loop hole, the money he lost ($900m) was not his money, it was investor money.

Regardless, if anyone rich or poor is avoiding taxes completely from an unintentional loop hole, it needs to be closed.

There's several different routes you can go with it from capitol loss to energy credits. We all have write-offs and they are all available to everyone. They were put in because it benefits the country the most. Trump's is excessive but it's relative to his income. Going into why we have these is a very lengthy discussion but every president since Reagan has agreed they are necessary and beneficial to all. They just tweak it how they see fit.

A simple tax calculator will show you that you benefit much more from Trumps current plan than Hillary's without even getting into the effect it will have on the job market for your wife

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/2016/03/25/voxs-new-presidential-tax-calculator/

[edb33]

I disagree

His plan of giving the rich even more tax breaks would widen the wealth gap even more resulting in another depression.

Hills plan will boost the economy, making it beneficial for all

Idk how else to explain it man. You over tax a small company and it goes out of business which leads to less jobs. Less jobs means supply and demand switch to benefiting employers who can now pay less and charge more. The wealthiest people on the planet get even richer while the ones who just got into the 1% now go back down to middle class. Only person who benefits from this is Cuban, Gates, Buffett, etc. It kills the everyday American and takes more people out of the one 1% which widens the gap even further

[~primetime~]

There's several different routes you can go with it from capitol loss to energy credits. We all have write-offs and they are all available to everyone. They were put in because it benefits the country the most. Trump's is excessive but it's relative to his income. Going into why we have these is a very lengthy discussion but every president since Reagan has agreed they are necessary and beneficial to all. They just tweak it how they see fit.

A simple tax calculator will show you that you benefit much more from Trumps current plan than Hillary's without even getting into the effect it will have on the job market for your wife

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/2016/03/25/voxs-new-presidential-tax-calculator/
The loop hole Trump used was voted against by Hillary and is not widely used by 'everyone'. Most of the middle class has paid taxes over the last 2 decades.

What would be beneficial to me is if those cheat codes were deleted and then Trumps tax money frees up my wifes debt. We in return go and purchase more goods and services making it beneficial to the entire economy. Maybe even Trump himself benefits because now more people are using his hotels, casinos, etc

[UK2K]

The thought process of of "oh well, it's their fault, too bad for them, maybe everyone will do better next time" is not a logical way to go about it.

The system is breaking and needs updating.

It is for those smart enough not to fall for it.

Why does the left always want someone else to pay for their mistakes?

[edb33]

The loop hole Trump used was voted against by Hillary and is not widely used by 'everyone'. Most of the middle class has paid taxes over the last 2 decades.

What would be beneficial to me is if those cheat codes were deleted and then Trumps tax money frees up my wifes debt. We in return go and purchase more goods and services making it beneficial to the entire economy. Maybe even Trump himself benefits because now more people are using his hotels, casinos, etc


I didn't say it was used by everyone, I said it COULD be. Most just chose to blow their money instead of investing it. The elite will make their money either on the front end (paying less taxes) or even more beneficial to them the back end ( a monopoly on products and employees) you are focused on the wrong group for the 1000th time. Even that simple calculator I posted shows you would save about 10k a year with Trump in taxes but you are too focused on your 150 a month bs. Her plan benefits the elite more than anybody and hurts you more than his. Stop staring at the 150 a month for you vs tax breaks to the elite and look at the rest of it. Your tax breaks with him alone is like 10 times what her sh!tty college plan will do for you and that's just on the surface

[~primetime~]

It is for those smart enough not to fall for it.

Why does the left always want someone else to pay for their mistakes?
Because the economy sucks because of it and we are all paying for it.

[~primetime~]

I didn't say it was used by everyone, I said it COULD be. Most just chose to blow their money instead of investing it. The elite will make their money either on the front end (paying less taxes) or even more beneficial to them the back end ( a monopoly on products and employees) you are focused on the wrong group for the 1000th time. Even that simple calculator I posted shows you would save about 10k a year with Trump in taxes but you are too focused on your 150 a month bs. Her plan benefits the elite more than anybody and hurts you more than his. Stop staring at the 150 a month for you vs tax breaks to the elite and look at the rest of it. Your tax breaks with him alone is like 10 times what her sh!tty college plan will do for you and that's just on the surface
Trump's 'trickle-down' approach has been proven not to work for the economy as a whole, that's how we got into the mess we were in.

You're just looking at your tax savings, and not the bigger picture.

[Schotsman]

As someone mentioned before, it really a lot more of "who you know" versus "what you know".

It also doesn't matter what your degree is in, as long as you can prove to whoever is looking to hire you that you have a real interest in the field and can learn how to do the job correctly.

That's true for me. I did a masters in urban planning, and now work at the marketing/communications department of a large contractor, which has very little connection to my degree. Took some adjusting, sure, but it's all good.

[edb33]

We are always going to have to pay for those that can't or won't carry their weight. It's just a fact of life, but the more we enable that mentality the more the "won't" in that situation grows which means less incentive to be the ones creating. It's a recipe for disaster.

I'm aware you think you are getting free money from Hillary to pay for your wife's college so you are all about it, I would be all about free money also but the facts show you would gain 10x what she is offering you in tax savings from Trump. That's way more beneficial to you. Take that and pay off her loans 10x as fast as Hillary could

[UK2K]

Because the economy sucks because of it and we are all paying for it.

If you ****ed up, thats your problem. Stop trying to make me responsible for everyone else's mistakes. It's called responsibility.

That's why we have millions who will never work... because people like you allow it.

[edb33]

Trump's 'trickle-down' approach has been proven not to work for the economy as a whole, that's how we got into the mess we were in.

You're just looking at your tax savings, and not the bigger picture.

The opposite actually. My money is made off a strong middle class more than any other field in the world so I'm more concerned what's beneficial for them than I am on what I can save on taxes. The middle class saving 10k a year on taxes vs $150 a month on student loans means I'd much rather them get the 10k a year

[~primetime~]

We are always going to have to pay for those that can't or won't carry their weight. It's just a fact of life, but the more we enable that mentality the more the "won't" in that situation grows which means less incentive to be the ones creating. It's a recipe for disaster.

I'm aware you think you are getting free money from Hillary to pay for your wife's college so you are all about it, I would be all about free money also but the facts show you would gain 10x what she is offering you in tax savings from Trump. That's way more beneficial to you. Take that and pay off her loans 10x as fast as Hillary could
I'd rather do it by evening out the wealth gap...I am a firm believer that Trump's plan will damage the economy as a whole and Hillary's plan will boost the economy as a whole.

Looks like we are going to see if I'm right about Hillary's plan.

[~primetime~]

The opposite actually. My money is made off a strong middle class more than any other field in the world so I'm more concerned what's beneficial for them than I am on what I can save on taxes. The middle class saving 10k a year on taxes vs 150k a month on student loans means I'd much rather them get the 10k a year
My wife would be saving much more than $150 a month...you must have misread that. Her payment would go from $900 a month to $150 a month. ($750 a month or $9,000 a year)

The calculator you linked shows only a $2,500 saving for someone making $50k a year.

[edb33]

I'd rather do it by evening out the wealth gap...I am a firm believer that Trump's plan will damage the economy as a whole and Hillary's plan will boost the economy as a whole.

Looks like we are going to see if I'm right about Hillary's plan.


I'd love for the gap to be closed because ironically it would skyrocket me to the top. You are right about one thing though, it's almost a guarantee we will see just how her plan works sadly. I'm still hoping some weird sh!t happens where both of them are forced to drop out and we can start all over

[edb33]

My wife would be saving much more than $150 a month...you must have misread that. Her payment would go from $900 a month to $150 a month. ($750 a month or $9,000 a year)

The calculator you linked shows only a $2,500 saving for someone making $50k a year.


My bad I must have misread. I also could have swore your income was higher. (not saying the 50k you did is your actual income)

Well on the surface you are correct, Hillary's plan benefits you the most. Now you just have to pray that I'm not right in the fact it hurts small business to the point they can't hire or worse go out of business which leaves your wife in a bad situation later. I truly believe this benefits the elite more than anybody because it pushes the upper middle class back down the ladder forcing a wider gap

[~primetime~]

My bad I must have misread. I also could have swore your income was higher. (not saying the 50k you did is your actual income)

Well on the surface you are correct, Hillary's plan benefits you the most. Now you just have to pray that I'm not right in the fact it hurts small business to the point they can't hire or worse go out of business which leaves your wife in a bad situation later. I truly believe this benefits the elite more than anybody because it pushes the upper middle class back down the ladder forcing a wider gap
I was using HER income as that would relate better to the average college grad.

[UK2K]

The one simple fact in all this is...

We have to cut government spending. Period. There's no other way around it.

And Clinton isn't going to do that.

It's that simple.

[edb33]

I was using HER income as that would relate better to the average college grad.


I did it based off my assumed income for you and her combined plus kids. I get where you are coming from but I thought we were talking about what benefits your household the most because obviously that's most important to an individual.

Either way the choices for college grads are lower your tax bill, keep your student loan, and assume the job market doesn't change for other reasons, find a career at a fairly easy time making competitive pay

vs

keep your taxes the same, lower your student debt, and graduate to a job market with a very real possibility it being flooded with overqualified former business owners because they were taxed out of business leaving you to work somewhere your degree will be useless.

As someone who loves to take risks, I would avoid that at all costs

[hawks4life]

Because the economy sucks because of it and we are all paying for it.

So if thats the case our prisons our full because of certain people's mistakes. If we all just spread out the time evenly to everyone then our prisons will be empty in years. Right? I don't agree with the need for me to pay for someone else making a bad decision and pursuing a degree in something useless. I personally don't see any point in a art major becoming a professional protestor.

Then again, I'm not terribly fond of bailing out anyone else's mistakes, big banks included, for them ****ing up either. Yeah these are extreme examples. But theoretically, it's the same argument.

[edb33]

The one simple fact in all this is...

We have to cut government spending. Period. There's no other way around it.

And Clinton isn't going to do that.

It's that simple.


That's very true. Government spending is out of control and she is absolutely horrible at it. Taxes are an interest free loan to the government, that's why most pay all year then get some back at tax time. The raise the minimum wage crowd like Hillary just want that done because it doubles what comes in therefore offers more to spend throughout the year. It's not about what's best for the people, it benefits the big spenders in government

[Doomsday Dallas]

My wife would be saving much more than $150 a month...you must have misread that. Her payment would go from $900 a month to $150 a month. ($750 a month or $9,000 a year)

The calculator you linked shows only a $2,500 saving for someone making $50k a year.


This is not going to happen...

There will be some reason why she will not qualify but some piece of $hit in the hood will.

And this seems like another solution that will only 'mask' the real underlying problem.



Trump's plan identifies the problem as to why we are in this mess (the government)... and he offers a solution going forward (get rid of the government's involvement, and start holding the universities more accountable for this educational scam).

less government is always better than more government even if we have to suffer in the beginning.

[edb33]

So if thats the case our prisons our full because of certain people's mistakes. If we all just spread out the time evenly to everyone then our prisons will be empty in years. Right? I don't agree with the need for me to pay for someone else making a bad decision and pursuing a degree in something useless. I personally don't see any point in a art major becoming a professional protestor.

Then again, I'm not terribly fond of bailing out anyone else's mistakes, big banks included, for them ****ing up either. Yeah these are extreme examples. But theoretically, it's the same argument.


It benefits him directly on an instant gratification level so he's all for it. If it didn't benefit him or if he realized the long term hurts him more than the short term helps him he would be against it. It's that simple. Ironically enough, it's that exact mentality that got us to this point in the first place. People need to stop looking at what just benefits them right now and focus on the long term groups growth

[Doomsday Dallas]

The one simple fact in all this is...

We have to cut government spending. Period. There's no other way around it.

And Clinton isn't going to do that.

It's that simple.

it really is that simple...

We can't keep doing this.

Probably too late after Obama's damage to be honest.

Our debt problems are pretty much unfixable at this point. IMO.



It's almost as if the debt is a drug... the government is the drug dealer, and the democratic party is trying to keep us hooked.

[hawks4life]

it really is that simple...

We can't keep doing this.

Probably too late after Obama's damage to be honest.

Our debt problems are pretty much unfixable at this point. IMO.



It's almost as if the debt is a drug... the government is the drug dealer, and the democratic party is trying to keep us hooked.

Something about the first one is always free holds true to this. I've never been one for conspiracies. But this is a lot of info, real or not, to put everything into question.

[UK2K]

it really is that simple...

We can't keep doing this.

Probably too late after Obama's damage to be honest.

Our debt problems are pretty much unfixable at this point. IMO.



It's almost as if the debt is a drug... the government is the drug dealer, and the democratic party is trying to keep us hooked.
We reached that point a long time ago.

The debt will never be paid off in our lifetime. It'll likely never be paid off in my children's lifetime.

We have too many people dependent on the government to exist (employees and social welfare recipients). And the government is too dependent on our taxes to exist.

Taxing the 1% to such extremes that force them to go elsewhere won't fix our problems. Cut the government spending first, then you are able to lower taxes.

[Doomsday Dallas]

In reality...

the student debt crisis is just another drop in the bucket.


http://www.usdebtclock.org


We have a Trillion Dollars in credit card debt also

Can I get some relief there? Please Government?

My $8,000 in credit card debt was a poor choice... where is my relief?




Or maybe I should man up and fix the problem myself.

[~primetime~]

This is not going to happen...

There will be some reason why she will not qualify but some piece of $hit in the hood will.

And this seems like another solution that will only 'mask' the real underlying problem.



Trump's plan identifies the problem as to why we are in this mess (the government)... and he offers a solution going forward (get rid of the government's involvement, and start holding the universities more accountable for this educational scam).

less government is always better than more government even if we have to suffer in the beginning.
I disagree, without the gov we never would have had a bailout and we'd be in a depression right now. Sometimes we fck up and need help...don't you agree?

[edb33]

In reality...

the student debt crisis is just another drop in the bucket.


http://www.usdebtclock.org


We have a Trillion Dollars in credit card debt also

Can I get some relief there? Please Government?

My $8,000 in credit card debt was a poor choice... where is my relief?


Or maybe I should man up and fix the problem myself.

The numbers look insane but just as in personal and business, there is good debt and bad debt with the government. You can see at the bottom our assets and liability columns aren't THAT far off. It would be fairly simple to balance the budget while lowering taxes IF it was allowed to be done. Too many career politicians using the money to benefit themselves won't ever let it happen regardless of who is potus.

It's funny to me that we are so concerned the "wealthy aren't paying taxes" (which in reality they pay almost all of it % wise) but nobody gives a sh!t that people like Hillary are so wasteful with tax dollars. They use your money to grow their pockets and run in through the national debt to avoid their tax share on it but hey she paid taxes. Well no sh!t she paid taxes because it looped right back around to her pocket. Exactly why she wants a higher minimum wage so it's more money to her pocket. F#ck people, turn off the tv and pick up a book every once and a while!

[NumberSix]

I disagree, without the gov we never would have had a bailout and we'd be in a depression right now. Sometimes we fck up and need help...don't you agree?
Without the government, the banks wouldn't have needed a bailout. It was fck-tard Bill Clinton who decided that banks should be forced to give loans to people with bad credit. Apparently, minorities disproportionately have bad credit, so denying people loans based on credit alone is racist or something.

Shocker of all shockers... people with bad credit didn't pay off their loans.

[~primetime~]

http://time.com/money/4293910/national-debt-investors/

^^^5 Things Most People Don

[edb33]

[QUOTE=~primetime~]http://time.com/money/4293910/national-debt-investors/

^^^5 Things Most People Don

[rufuspaul]

You guys are not going to sway primetime. He's drunk on the Clinton koolaid.

[edb33]

You guys are not going to sway primetime. He's drunk on the Clinton koolaid.


With humility I say this, I came from nothing. I was even homeless as an adult at one point but now I am doing very very well for myself. I don't take that for granted and try to pass my story and knowledge on to as many people as possible by teaching financial education and it's importance. My wife has a masters degree in education so she helps break it down in to terms most can learn from. Unlike most, we do it for free as a way to give back.

I say all that to say this, I've broken through so many barriers for people and got them to reach financial heights they didn't believe were possible but for some reason I've never been able to crack PT on a single belief.

He is the only person I've ever seen who learns one minute detail about something, turns it into gospel and refuses to waver from it. I keep typing hoping to get him to see the light in hopes I can learn from it to help someone else like him who actually needs it in the future but I just can't figure it out. I almost feel like when I do I will lose my purpose and be done haha

[Hawker]

You guys are not going to sway primetime. He's drunk on the Clinton koolaid.

:lol

He's been doing this since he first came on ISH. Gotta give him props I guess. :pimp:

[Doomsday Dallas]

[QUOTE=~primetime~]http://time.com/money/4293910/national-debt-investors/

^^^5 Things Most People Don

[Cleverness]

edb33 on point ITT :rockon:


On the surface
Hillary's plan helps people who made mistakes with their student loans (expensive private loans or too lazy to spend 15 minutes changing to the PAYE or IBR)

But

It subsidizes young people to go spend an infinite amount of money ($50k-200k+, who cares) on a useless degree when they could have been gaining work experience. For example, the girl who studied liberal arts abroad and ended up with 200k in student loan debt. Colleges would probably love this plan because they can now charge even more money and students won't give a sh*t. Then 8 years later we have a new group of people $500k/each in student loan debt who fell through the cracks of Hillary's plan and they need forgiveness.. next democratic nominee promises more forgiveness and student loan help.

It gives the middle finger to those who worked their asses off in school to keep their loans low (esp borrowers in the past 10 years or so) and those who paid back their student loans asap:roll:

[Cleverness]

That graphic primetime posted on "making more $ if you go to college" is the same graphic that got a lot people in trouble. Our country has gradually been pushing the narrative that "everyone needs to go to college, period" for the past two decades and it's getting worse

What if you don't wanna go to college? You're making a mistake because according to the graph, you'll make a lot more money if you go to college. You should go to college.

What if you had a poor GPA in high school? It's ok, you should go to college. Don't worry about finding someone to give you a loan, the government will give you a loan regardless of your past efforts.

What if you are lazy and don't want to go to work? You should go to college. The government will give you grants/loans to pay for school and room & board. Just pick an easy major like communications and have tons of free time.

What if you wanna study "women's studies" or some other useless major? It's ok, you should go to college because according to the graph, you'll make a lot more money than someone who didn't go. Also, even though nobody in their right mind would let you borrow 50k to study that sh*t for 4 years, the government will, and they might even forgive all of it.




anyways, primetime, how does her plan drastically change your loan payments? Is your wife not eligible for PAYE or even IBR?

Right now the current available plans for PAYE/IBR frees up tons of income for almost everyone who has Stafford or Grad Plus Loans.

1. Sign up for PAYE
2. Pay [Your annual income - 18k] x 0.1 = amount you pay each year for student loans
3. Any outstanding balance is forgiven after 20 years

examples:
-Social Worker making $38,000/yr with $150,000 in debt pays $167/month
-Barista making $18,000/yr with $100,000 in debt pays $0/month
-Web developer making $60,000/yr with $90,000 in debt pays $350/month
-Artist making $0/yr with $200,000 in debt pays $0/month



Hillary supporters point out many problems that face us today, trust in her to help fix those problems, yet completely ignore the fact that Obama has been in office for 8 years and hasn't fixed ANY of these "major problems" that Hillary supposedly will according to her public policy :lol

[~primetime~]

With humility I say this, I came from nothing. I was even homeless as an adult at one point but now I am doing very very well for myself. I don't take that for granted and try to pass my story and knowledge on to as many people as possible by teaching financial education and it's importance. My wife has a masters degree in education so she helps break it down in to terms most can learn from. Unlike most, we do it for free as a way to give back.

I say all that to say this, I've broken through so many barriers for people and got them to reach financial heights they didn't believe were possible but for some reason I've never been able to crack PT on a single belief.

He is the only person I've ever seen who learns one minute detail about something, turns it into gospel and refuses to waver from it. I keep typing hoping to get him to see the light in hopes I can learn from it to help someone else like him who actually needs it in the future but I just can't figure it out. I almost feel like when I do I will lose my purpose and be done haha
Like you were going to show me a Trump tax calculator and I'd suddenly change my mind and vote Trump?

LOL at people in here acting like it's just me being a hard head...NO ONE on this site is budging on their opinion this election...NO ONE

I'm self made too ed...I crawled out of a liquor bottle...that doesn't mean anything here. Predicting the economy is difficult, even for economists. I have seen what past Republicans have done...and what past Dems have done...like your boy Dubya told me, fool me once, shame on you,......see you can't get fooled again.

[NumberSix]

Like you were going to show me a Trump tax calculator and I'd suddenly change my mind and vote Trump?

LOL at people in here acting like it's just me being a hard head...NO ONE on this site is budging on their opinion this election...NO ONE

I'm self made too ed...I crawled out of a liquor bottle...that doesn't mean anything here. Predicting the economy is difficult, even for economists. I have seen what past Republicans have done...and what past Dems have done...like your boy Dubya told me, fool me once, shame on you,......see you can't get fooled again.
This^ is a problem that too many republicans aren't willing to recognize. The amount of damage that George W Bush did to the republican brand in the eyes of many Americans.

[Heavincent]

Thank god I don't go to college. Luckily, I have a passion (music) that doesn't require an education. I get to work and keep some of my cash.

Can't believe how many kids get suckered into going to college to get some useless piece of crap degree. Educational system needs to stop brainwashing kids like that.

[bdreason]

If a College is going to charge $50,000+ for a piece of paper, they should be required to assist with job placement. I went to 3 different College's, and in my experience, nobody there gave a shit about my future. Guidance counselors need to play a much bigger role, and an emphasis needs to be placed on post graduate goals.

[Cleverness]

If a College is going to charge $50,000+ for a piece of paper, they should be required to assist with job placement. I went to 3 different College's, and in my experience, nobody there gave a shit about my future. Guidance counselors need to play a much bigger role, and an emphasis needs to be placed on post graduate goals.

They do assist with job placement. They have plenty of $15/hr jobs lined up for you.

[Cleverness]

Thank god I don't go to college. Luckily, I have a passion (music) that doesn't require an education. I get to work and keep some of my cash.

Can't believe how many kids get suckered into going to college to get some useless piece of crap degree. Educational system needs to stop brainwashing kids like that.

Wrong. You should go to college. There are music programs out there that only cost $100,000 and you can get your bachelors degree in music. And with Hillary's new plan (actually, not a whole lot is new), you can spend 4-5 years of your life just studying music. I'm sure you'll qualify. Remember, the average person with a bachelors degree will make TWICE the salary than the average person with only a HS diploma.

[edb33]

Like you were going to show me a Trump tax calculator and I'd suddenly change my mind and vote Trump?

LOL at people in here acting like it's just me being a hard head...NO ONE on this site is budging on their opinion this election...NO ONE

I'm self made too ed...I crawled out of a liquor bottle...that doesn't mean anything here. Predicting the economy is difficult, even for economists. I have seen what past Republicans have done...and what past Dems have done...like your boy Dubya told me, fool me once, shame on you,......see you can't get fooled again.


I gave you way more than a calculator. It doesn't take an economist to understand what doubling the taxes plus closing "loop holes" will do to a small business. It also doesn't take an economist to understand what happens to a job market when only large corporations can hire.

FYI I didn't like dubya at all but while we are on the subject, he gave a stimulus package to the middle class in 2002 which played a hefty role in the 2008 collapse. The illusion of here's extra money to a middle class with zero financial education actually fails the economy faster than the trickle down idea. You claimed in another post your only reason for voting hillary was how she will help you financially aka me stating you picked one minute detail of the election and held on to it like gospel. I didn't mean it in an attacking way but you are the king of latching onto catch phrases and running with it

[JerebkoTaylor]

The top 1% should have planned on paying taxes

All Hillary wants to do is close the loop holes, the top 1% isn't paying taxes. Trump hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, and he is far from the only one.

The top 1% have all the money, and they aren't paying their share.

He is paying taxes, by employing thousands of people. Also, didn't that shit that happen only free him from paying federal tax?

[edb33]

He is paying taxes, by employing thousands of people. Also, didn't that shit that happen only free him from paying federal tax?


Yes it is only federal tax. Clinton has also used it, though her money is channelled a different way so her numbers looked smaller but % wise hers was actually higher. I've used it, apple uses it, microsoft uses it, on and on.... Using it is not the issue, it is written tax code so it's available for everyone, her actual argument was he intentionally created a loss situation to have a write off. She didn't even have to explain the actual issue because people don't care to study taxes, they just blindly pay them.

Fabricating a loss for tax saving purposes is illegal, problem is it is impossible to prove and you can't change the tax code to eliminate this loop hole without also excluding capital loss which hurts the country more than it benefits

[Doomsday Dallas]

US debt clock (http://www.usdebtclock.org)



We should have a CAP on Government employees in this country.


23,502,000 ..... seriously?


That number should be down.

[ArbitraryWater]

primetime used to be a good poster? wtf

[Doomsday Dallas]

primetime used to be a good poster? wtf


I'm pretty sure he just doesn't like Trump.

He's not a true Hillary supporter.

[Cleverness]

My wife just finished her masters...she holds $60k in student debt...makes $900 a month payments.

THAT SAID, we both foresee her making six figures 4-5 years down the road. So it was well worth it.


The problem is that $900 a month holds her down from doing anything. If she wasn't living with me, she would be forced to live at home with her parents.

Hillary's plan will reduce her payments to $150 a month. Giving her the ability to breathe. And her story matches the story of millions out there. Held down by student debt, can't do anything. And freeing that up for everyone will most certainly be a huge jump to the economy.

How does her plan drastically change your loan payments? Is your wife not eligible for PAYE or even IBR?

[sammichoffate]

I don't understand why taxing hire-income individuals is a bad thing necessarily, wouldn't you want the lower and middle classes to have more disposable income to buy your products and services if you're rich? Ik that's grossly oversimplifying things, but is it because of ROI from lost tax revenue or from greed? Doesn't the economy grow when demand for products is higher(more transactions from consumers due to higher levels of income ala marketable skills/degree) and everyone is better off?

[BigNBAfan]

I don't understand why taxing hire-income individuals is a bad thing necessarily, wouldn't you want the lower and middle classes to have more disposable income to buy your products and services if you're rich? Ik that's grossly oversimplifying things, but is it because of ROI from lost tax revenue or from greed? Doesn't the economy grow when demand for products is higher(more transactions from consumers due to higher levels of income ala marketable skills/degree) and everyone is better off?

Because the high income people (1%-ers) are never taxed more. They have portfolios with incredibly high losses to credit for taxes. My parents own a agricultural grove just to avoid taxes because each tree can be credited towards depreciation. What this results in is essentially is 0 tax.... just credit and in fact a large estate without property tax.

That is why a lot of wealthy folks own ranches....

The increase in tax essentially just targets the dying middle class.

[Cleverness]

I don't understand why taxing hire-income individuals is a bad thing necessarily, wouldn't you want the lower and middle classes to have more disposable income to buy your products and services if you're rich? Ik that's grossly oversimplifying things, but is it because of ROI from lost tax revenue or from greed? Doesn't the economy grow when demand for products is higher(more transactions from consumers due to higher levels of income ala marketable skills/degree) and everyone is better off?

I'm assuming you meant higher-income individuals. So what defines higher-income? 100k/yr? 250k/yr? 1m/yr? 100m/yr?

Why do we care more about taxing others and not our own taxes? With your proposal, wouldn't it make more sense to lower income taxes for the middle class so they have more disposable income to buy products?

[sammichoffate]

I'm assuming you meant higher-income individuals. So what defines higher-income? 100k/yr? 250k/yr? 1m/yr? 100m/yr?

Why do we care more about taxing others and not our own taxes? With your proposal, wouldn't it make more sense to lower income taxes for the middle class so they have more disposable income to buy products?That's a question that will never have a concrete answer unfortunately, i've seen all kinds of proposals like tax brackets deductions, reformed progressive, getting rid of certain taxes, implementing intellectual property taxes, etc. I would say 1m/yr but ppl will disagree with me.

That would also be a viable idea if it ever got through Congress/State legislatures. Question is, how much would be a good amount?

[Doomsday Dallas]

bump

[Manny98]

Yh since I am doing 5 years at university my student debt is going to be 100k

Luckily it works different hear in the UK where you don't have to pay anything unless you are earning above a certain threshold

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't understand why taxing hire-income individuals is a bad thing necessarily, wouldn't you want the lower and middle classes to have more disposable income to buy your products and services if you're rich? Ik that's grossly oversimplifying things, but is it because of ROI from lost tax revenue or from greed? Doesn't the economy grow when demand for products is higher(more transactions from consumers due to higher levels of income ala marketable skills/degree) and everyone is better off?

In the end it doesnt really matter.

Wealthy people control the politics regardless. Taxing the rich and having politicians distribute the money is a circular endeavor. At the end of the day each person is gonna get what theyre able to fight for and earn no matter if it’s capitalism, communism, or otherwise. If you dont have some combination of talent, work ethic, and balls... you’ll always be screwed.

[Cleverness]

Yh since I am doing 5 years at university my student debt is going to be 100k

Luckily it works different hear in the UK where you don't have to pay anything as long as you stay poor

It works that way here in the US too, as long as you have the right loans eligible for PAYE/IBR. Theoretically, you can borrow $200k and pay nothing forever.

[Nanners]

I would bet the farm that this student debt reduction never actually comes to pass. Bidens admin published a press release claiming that they would like to forgive 10-20k in loans, but there has been nothing submitted in terms of legislation or executive orders that would actually make this happen.

A couple years ago Nancy Pelosi said it was impossible for the president to forgive any student loans without congress, and I dont think that has changed - maybe an executive order can get it done and skirt past the inevitable court cases, but my guess is doing this will take a vote in congress, and currently there is no way that this vote would pass the senate.

[diamenz]

I would bet the farm that this student debt reduction never actually comes to pass. Bidens admin published a press release claiming that they would like to forgive 10-20k in loans, but there has been nothing submitted in terms of legislation or executive orders that would actually make this happen.

A couple years ago Nancy Pelosi said it was impossible for the president to forgive any student loans without congress, and I dont think that has changed - maybe an executive order can get it done and skirt past the inevitable court cases, but my guess is doing this will take a vote in congress, and currently there is no way that this vote would pass the senate.

iirc it is in fact being done through exec order. whether it gets through without the courts though like u said is a different story.

[Nanners]

iirc it is in fact being done through exec order. whether it gets through without the courts though like u said is a different story.

Well I am eagerly waiting to see this executive order... I stand to personally benefit from this and I def hope this goes through. In addition to the fun of having most of my remaining debt wiped out, it would be a lot of fun to thank RufusPaul and Highwhey for subsidizing my education, especially the parts where I learned about how big pharma are soulless liars and climate change is fake and gay.

[BigKobeFan]

Well I am eagerly waiting to see this executive order... I stand to personally benefit from this and I def hope this goes through. In addition to the fun of having most of my remaining debt wiped out, it would be a lot of fun to thank RufusPaul and Highwhey for subsidizing my education, especially the parts where I learned about how big pharma are soulless liars and climate change is fake and gay.

he said it to drum up demon support and then nothing happens again. Remember the ice cube platinum plan?

[Nanners]

he said it to drum up demon support and then nothing happens again. Remember the ice cube platinum plan?

Bingo... this debt relief idea is nothing more than a carrot that will be dangled over voters heads in 2 years from now, and then regardless of who wins in 2024 the debt relief will never happen.

[Draz]

All these ***** think it’s okay to get the debt they signed up for willingly should be wiped clean.

Absolutely bullshit. Peasant shit actually. I paid for my shit and didn’t do so hoping I get bailed out.

[Nanners]

All these ***** think it’s okay to get the debt they signed up for willingly should be wiped clean.

Absolutely bullshit. Peasant shit actually. I paid for my shit and didn’t do so hoping I get bailed out.

Yeah the only people who deserve to have their debt wiped out by taxpayers are the parasitic corporations that run this country and the US aristocracy that owns these companies (ever heard of the bailouts of 2008 and 2020? the two greatest upward transfers of wealth in all of US history?)

[Nanners]

Anyway, I would bet the farm that meaningful student debt relief will NEVER happen in this country.

[diamenz]

Anyway, I would bet the farm that meaningful student debt relief will NEVER happen in this country.

if biden's poll numbers had not been so dismal beforehand, it wouldn't even be a thought.

[diamenz]

All these ***** think it’s okay to get the debt they signed up for willingly should be wiped clean.

Absolutely bullshit. Peasant shit actually. I paid for my shit and didn’t do so hoping I get bailed out.

this shit is a drop in the bucket in comparison to all of the wasteful spending that goes on (and btw never gets talked about. $7 trillion in the ME but the media and their cohorts go bonkers over a messy pull-out). at least in this case, it's the middle class receiving the benefit.

by your logic we can never do anything good in this country because people in the past didn't receive the benefit. you should be GLAD people are getting relief because you can relate to the burden.

[Nanners]

if biden's poll numbers had not been so dismal beforehand, it wouldn't even be a thought.

no doubt

[Off the Court]

What are you guys talking about Biden has been proposing this since day 1 and this has been a "thought" for years now.

I don't even care for Biden or care to defend the guy but this didn't just suddenly pop up because his polling was down. It's been talked about heavily for a long time.

[Nanners]

What are you guys talking about Biden has been proposing this since day 1 and this has been a "thought" for years now.

I don't even care for Biden or care to defend the guy but this didn't just suddenly pop up because his polling was down. It's been talked about heavily for a long time.

Let me know when it actually happens. As of today the VAST majority of college students have not receieved any kind of debt reduction or a release of any kind

[Off the Court]

Let me know when it actually happens. As of today the VAST majority of college students have not receieved any kind of debt reduction or a release of any kind
None of them have, the applications for it go out beginning of 2023 tax year. And it's definitely going to happen unless the GOP figures out some way of blocking it which would be political suicide for them.

[Nanners]

None of them have, the applications for it go out beginning of 2023 tax year. And it's definitely going to happen unless the GOP figures out some way of blocking it which would be political suicide for them.

I dont think it will be political suicide for the gop to oppose this.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I stand to benefit by at least 20k if this bill goes through as Biden described it... but the democrats are lying bitches and I have zero faith they were ever actually interested in reducing student debt (they just want the student vote)

[Gougou]

Yep and used cars, houses surges in price a lot too.

Honestly, at this point 100k income feels like an average job right now...