Which stage of their careers did Bron have worse cast or play in tougher conf than MJ

[3ball]

Early stage, middle stage?

First 5-6 years of their careers?

What part of their careers career did Lebron have a worse cast or play in a tougher conference?

[ClipperRevival]

3ball,

Your're weird.

[Nilocon165]

3ball,

Your're weird.
Jordan Stan slayed by a Jordan Stan :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[3ball]

3ball,

Your're weird.


Seems like a simple enough question to me.

Your response is weird and doesn't answer the question

[kamil]

Jordan Stan slayed by a Jordan Stan :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

You call that a slay? :rolleyes:

[ClipperRevival]

Seems like a simple enough question to me.

Your response is weird and doesn't answer the question

You're question is not specific. But you still the man 3ball.

[3ball]

You're question is not specific. But you still the man 3ball.


I made the question specific in a newly-created thread here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12633559#post12633559

[lilteapot]

Hey 3ball

Do you have a girlfriend? a wife? kids?

[3ball]

Hey 3ball

Do you have a girlfriend? a wife? kids?


girlfriend

wife is old-fashioned.. kids one day

[lilteapot]

How old is your girlfriend?

[3ball]

How old is your girlfriend?
5 years younger than me

anything else

how about answering the OP instead of this creative dodge

[lilteapot]

Is she old enough to drive?

[3ball]

Is she old enough to drive?
says someone who isn't old enough to drive

[Smoke117]

The saddest part is...in two weeks when the season starts...he will still be doing this.

[lilteapot]

You are avoiding the question

Is your girlfriend old enough to vote?

[3ball]

The saddest part is...in two weeks when the season starts...he will still be doing this.


No 1-9?.. You're maturing.. that's good

And a full page of posts from a half dozen Lebron fans, yet no answers to the OP?... That's all the answer I need Shaun..

Lebron NEVER had a worse cast or played in a tougher conference at any year or stage of their careers.

[NBAGOAT]

pretty easy to answer where even you can't argue. Year 7, the Bulls were a championship team and Pippen was absolutely at least all star level. lebron was still on cleveland and didn't really have an all star level teammate.

[Smoke117]

No 1-9?..you're maturing.. that's good

And a full page of posts from a half dozen Lebron fans, yet no answers to the OP?... That's all the answer I need Shaun..

Lebron NEVER had a worse cast or played in a tougher conference at any year or stage of their careers.

Yeah...I"ve already explained...unlike these other knuckleheads...I'm not going to feed your insanity and delusions. Besides...every thread you make these days you've already made at least half a dozen times already. Why don't you mature and get some new material?

Oh and no answers? Maybe other people are finally as sick of your looney toon act as much as I am now.

[3ball]

pretty easy to answer where even you can't argue. Year 7, the Bulls were a championship team and Pippen was absolutely at least all star level. lebron was still on cleveland and didn't really have an all star level teammate.


ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!

tell him what he's won Bob!





so 1 year out of 13... I rest my case

.

[NBAGOAT]

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!

tell him what he's won Bob!

so 1 year out of 13... I rest my case

and even then there's an argument for cle > chi's cast.. cle crushes chi at the 4-12 spots.. not close


no there are plenty of other years people believe lebron had a weaker cast than MJ. It's just you have arguments lined up for all of them and I didn't want to deal with that shit right now. 2014 Miami vs I think it would be 97 Bulls or even 13 Miami vs 96 Bulls are easily arguable but ik you have arguments ready to be copy and pasted.

[CuhGetsBucks]

Season starts in 10 days

[DaHeezy]

3ball,

Your're weird.

That was good
��

[3ball]

2014 Miami vs I think it would be 97 Bulls or even 13 Miami vs 96 Bulls are easily arguable but ik you have arguments ready to be copy and pasted.


2014 is arguable, but even then, you're grasping for a year here and there, whereas Jordan has the preponderance of years.

Also, for all the talk of Lebron's poor help in 2014 playoffs - Rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs, and wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs (4/8 in Finals) - he also didn't make any all-defensive teams in 1997 or 98'.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 18 ppg on 41% in 1997 and 1998 playoffs.. So Jordan's help in both 1997 and 1998 was equal or worse than 2014 Lebron's.

As for 2013 - that was Lebron's most stacked team as a Heat, since the 2nd best long distance shooter ever (HOF Ray Allen) fit like a glove after being added to the team as the 4th option.

[Smoke117]

2014 is arguable, but even then, you're grasping for a year here and there, whereas Jordan has the preponderance of years.

Also, for all the talk of Lebron's poor help in 2014 playoffs - Rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs, and wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs (4/8 in Finals) - he also didn't make any all-defensive teams in 1997 or 98'.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 18 ppg on 41% in 1997 and 1998 playoffs.. So Jordan's help in both 1997 and 1998 was equal or worse than 2014 Lebron's.

As for 2013 - that was Lebron's most stacked team as a Heat, since the 2nd best long distance shooter ever (HOF Ray Allen) fit like a glove after being added to the team as the 4th option.

You gotta love how it's always just about scoring with 3ball here when it comes to Pippen...never mind that Pippen was by far the best perimeter defender in the league in 97 and 98 and had by far the biggest impact vs the Jazz in 97 and Pacers and Jazz in 98 in this regard.

Also, STOP making threads about Lebron...when you admit you haven't watched NBA basketball in 5 years you don't get to have an opinion about players you don't even watching ****ing play.

[SouBeachTalents]

You gotta love how it's always just about scoring with 3ball here when it comes to Pippen...never mind that Pippen was by far the best perimeter defender in the league in 97 and 98 and had by far the biggest impact vs the Jazz in 97 and Pacers and Jazz in 98 in this regard.

Also, STOP making threads about Lebron...when you admit you haven't watched NBA basketball in 5 years you don't get to have an opinion about players you don't even watching ****ing play.

3ball's actually argued Wade's 2014 Finals were better than Pippen's '98 Finals based on PPG & FG% :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

3ball's actually argued Wade's 2014 Finals were better than Pippen's '98 Finals based on PPG & FG% :oldlol:

He goes around spewing his "facts", but when you bring up a fact he doesn't like...like that pippen averaged 20ppg on 46% through the first 4 games before he hurt his back in 98...he just ignores it and continues to act like Pippen didn't get hurt in game 5 and was basically crippled in game 6. I mean...how mentally off do you have to be to make the same threads over and over and over again FOR 2 YEARS!...because that's what he's done. Even more so...how mentally off do you have to be to obsess like this over a BASKETBALL PLAYER...it's almost frightening. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike has a restraining order against this guy.

In general...Jordan stans are so full of their "hero worship" nonsense that they put MJ up on some shrine like he is some god. If you listen to them...he was the best at every single aspect of the game...nobody was ever better at anything, period. Oh also...whenever he felt like it...HE COULD JUST WILL HIS TEAM TO WIN...because he's Michael Jordan. :rolleyes:

[3ball]

never mind that Pippen was by far the best perimeter defender in the league in 97 and 98


That's preposterous, since Pippen was very SLOW on the perimeter by 1998 and was usually beaten easily by decent ballhandlers - this was common knowledge and obvious to the eye (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2015/5FXjSn.gif).. His versatile defensive impact was actually more in the PAINT by that point.

His slow feet on the perimeter is why the only point guard that he defended in 1997 or 1998 was the slowest point guard of all time, Mark Jackson, while Jordan guarded Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s'Tim Hardaway[/url, [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s), and John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0) - Pippen never guarded ANY of those guys..





and had by far the biggest impact vs the Pacers and Jazz in 98 in this regard.


Pippen allowed the slowest point guard of all time (Jackson) to average 10/4/6 on 43%, which was close to his 8/4/9 on 42% regular season numbers.. Meanwhile, Jordan expended MORE energy locking down the Pacers' HOF 1st option to 17 ppg on 40%, far below his 20 ppg on 48% averages.. So Jordan's defensive impact was far greater - not even close.

Also, there isn't a single stat, shred of proof or EYETEST to back up your claim of Pippen being the best perimeter defender in 97 and 98', so you must be thinking about 1994 or 1995, when the stats and eyetest DID back up your claim.





and had by far the biggest impact vs. the Jazz in 98 in this regard.


Pippen played well defensively the first 4 games, while averaging 20 ppg (Jordan 32).

But then he ****ed his back up and DISAPPEARED ON BOTH ENDS for the last 2 games (8 pts, 6 pts), forcing Jordan to produce the greatest carry job and clutch the games ever seen, on BOTH ends.

For all your talk of Pippen being a great defender, his defense didn't prevent Jordan from STILL needing to carry the goat load, including the goat scoring load (by FAR (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920)) while leading the team in assists for most playoff runs, and playing the best defense EVER at his positon.
.

[Smoke117]

This is why I don't even bother responding to you most of the time...what's the point? You can't reason with someone like this. The bulls might as well have been playing 1 on 12 when it comes to everything you say...I mean...nobody else ever did shit on the bulls, but get carried to championships...right?

[3ball]

I mean...nobody else ever did shit on the bulls, but get carried to championships. Right?


The goat props that Jordan gets is because he had the goat load and performance - no all-time great led their team in scoring for every series of their career, let alone by a margin of 15 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) ppg like Jordan, or while leading the team in passing, or while playing the best defense ever at their position..

That's the goat load and performance, so he gets the goat props... :confusedshrug: ... no need to whine about it





The bulls might as well have been playing 1 on 12 when it comes to everything you say...


For all your talk of Pippen being a great defender, his defense didn't prevent Jordan from STILL needing to carry the goat load, including the goat scoring load (by FAR (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920)) while leading the team in assists for most playoff runs, and playing the best defense EVER at his positon.

[NBAGOAT]

2014 is arguable, but even then, you're grasping for a year here and there, whereas Jordan has the preponderance of years.

Also, for all the talk of Lebron's poor help in 2014 playoffs - Rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs, and wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs (4/8 in Finals) - he also didn't make any all-defensive teams in 1997 or 98'.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 18 ppg on 41% in 1997 and 1998 playoffs.. So Jordan's help in both 1997 and 1998 was equal or worse than 2014 Lebron's.

As for 2013 - that was Lebron's most stacked team as a Heat, since the 2nd best long distance shooter ever (HOF Ray Allen) fit like a glove after being added to the team as the 4th option.

last response. Why are you overlooking Kukoc who has Ginobli level metrics as a 6th man and is a really useful offensive player. Good case he's their 3rd best player, not Rodman. Yes 13 is lebron's most stacked but team you're comparing them to most likely the greatest team of all time. There are absolutely other years I could go for but I just named 2 more pretty clear ones in most people.

[Smoke117]

Since you don't watch NBA basketball....you're gonna leave for the season right? I mean...there is no point in posting on a nba basketball board if you are not going to...WATCH NBA basketball. Trust me...nobody wants to read your repetitive nonsense all season long about a player who has been retired for nearly 15 years.

[3ball]

last response. Why are you overlooking Kukoc who has Ginobli level metrics as a 6th man and is a really useful offensive player.


Kukoc's 1997 playoffs:

8 ppg on 35%


Kukoc's 1998 Playoffs:

11 ppg on 39%



Ginobili 2005-2011 Playoffs:

19 ppg on 45%.... link to data (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html#2005-2011-sum:playoffs_per_game)




NO COMPARISON...

There's a reason Jordan had to achieve the highest PER ever for his rings - obviously, his supporting cast wasn't sufficient to allow anything less.. :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

Hey 3ball, are Jordans eyebrows considered facial hair?

[guy]

It would be 85-93 for Jordan compared with 04-12 for Lebron and then 95-98 for Jordan compared with 13-16 for Lebron. Taking into account cast, conference, injuries, I don't really see how you could say Jordan had it easier most of the time. I'd say it would go 90, 91, 96, 97 for Jordan and the rest goes to Lebron.

[3ball]

It would be 85-93 for Jordan compared with 04-12 for Lebron

and then 95-98 for Jordan compared with 13-16 for Lebron.


Your categories are arbitrary.. Otoh, during the first 6 years of Jordan's career, his 2nd options of Woolridge, Oakley and 2nd year Pippen (14/6/3) weren't top 4 players at their position in the conference (all-stars), whereas Lebron's 2nd options during his first 6 seasons of Big Z and Mo Williams WERE all-stars, and therefore better relative to their competition than Jordan's cast.

Jordan's weaker cast is shown by the stats - his 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins for the 1989 Bulls, whereas Lebron's 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in for the 2009 Cavs..

The 19 win gap can't be due ONLY to an espn (https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/lebron-hate.jpg?w=1000)-documented weaker conference - it must be due to a weaker supporting cast as well.. Jordan's weaker cast also explains why he was required to DO MORE thru 31 years old, including 30% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12616538&postcount=71) more PPG in the playoffs with equal assists.

[FKAri]

All of them. MJ was straight dog shit bruh. Nothing but hype. Saw some scrub at the park recreate MJ's hand switch layup :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan dealt with adversity like a man. LeBron ran from that shit like a boy.

[Smoke117]

Jordan dealt with adversity like a man. LeBron ran from that shit like a boy.

Yeah, because LEbron had anyone close to as good as Pippen on his first run with the Cavs. :rolleyes: Nobody has done more with less than Lebron did on those Cav teams except maybe David Robinson. Both guys that were so dominant that they made their teams look much better than they actually were and won so many games that it made it impossible to draft any help.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yeah, because LEbron had anyone close to as good as Pippen on his first run with the Cavs. :rolleyes:
So that's a valid reason to leave and join the next best player in the league along with a top five PF? Kind of overkill if you ask me.

That's like Mike joining Barkley and Danny Manning after getting beat by the Pistons. Plus, who knows how far that Cavs team go in 2010 if he doesn't quit mid series vs Boston.

And Jordan was the one who molded Pippen's game anyway. Scottie wouldn't have been close to the player he eventually became without Mike. This is known by anyone who watched both players, or were involved with the team.

So he had impact on the quality of help he'd eventually have, and need. Totally different then joining self made players at the top of their game.

:rolleyes:

[Smoke117]

I'm not going to get in another Jordan/Pippen argument...was just pointing out a hole in your post. You can keep your idol on his shrine, so relax. Regardless, Pippen was a heavily sought after player in the draft that more than one GM saw as a future superstar...nobody with Pippens natural talent and basketball IQ was ever drafted by the Cavs.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'm not going to get in another Jordan/Pippen argument...was just pointing out a hole in your post. You can keep your idol on his shrine, so relax. Regardless, Pippen was a heavily sought after talent in the draft that more than one GM saw as a future superstar...nobody with Pippens natural talent and basketball IQ was ever drafted by the Cavs.
I'm just educating you that Scottie wouldn't be a star if it wasn't for Jordan. So Mike had direct influence on his own sidekick's quality. He molded that piece of talented clay.

Cavs didn't draft anyone like that because they won a lot of games in a weak conference. And still had adequate enough support to compete. LeBron quit prematurely in 2010 playoffs, and ran.

[Smoke117]

I'm just educating you that Scottie wouldn't be a star if it wasn't for Jordan. So Mike had direct influence on his own sidekick's quality. He molded that piece of talented clay.

Cavs didn't draft anyone like that because they won a lot of games in a weak conference. And still had adequate enough support to compete. LeBron quit prematurely in 2010 playoffs, and ran.

Nobody "molds" anybody...you don't become great without hard work, talent, and skill. Jordan wasn't out there bouncing the ****ing ball for him was he? This god worship you Jordan stans have for him is far worse than any of these other Lebron and Kobe stans. They are at least complete retards...most of you can actually have an intelligent and reasonable conversation if it's NOT about Jordan.

The one thing I will give Jordan is that he is the one who lit the fires underneath Pippen early on. When he came into the league he was just happy to be there...just like anyone would have been who came from his background and unlikely story of being a lottery pick in the NBA draft. (for those that don't know his story you should look it up...it's really inspirational...not like that jordan I didn't make the varsity team my sophomore year bullshit)

[fourkicks44]

Nobody "molds" anybody...you don't become great without hard work, talent, and skill. Jordan wasn't out there bouncing the ****ing ball for him was he? This god worship you Jordan stans have for him is far worse than any of these other Lebron and Kobe stans. They are at least complete retards...most of you can actually have an intelligent and reasonable conversation if it's NOT about Jordan.

The one thing I will give Jordan is that he is the one who lit the fires underneath Pippen early on. When he came into the league he was just happy to be there...just like anyone would have been who came from his background and unlikely story of being a lottery pick in the NBA draft. (for those that don't know his story you should look it up...it's really inspirational...not like that jordan I didn't make the varsity team my sophomore year bullshit)

Yeah that is bullshit.... Jordan could be credited with making Pippen a winner (and the reverse can be also said), but Pippen still would have been a star without Jordan.

Pippen's story is amazing. It is incredible that Pippen and Rodman would find their destinies intertwined, when both of them came from buttf#ck nothing NAIA schools to become part of the greatest team of all time.

In all my infinite wisdom about the game I can't even name another NBA player that went to a NAIA school of the top of my head.

[jayfan]

Early stage, middle stage?

First 5-6 years of their careers?

What part of their careers career did Lebron have a worse cast or play in a tougher conference?

I'm with you for the most part. Jordan's cast is criminally overrated on this board. Especially the first 3 rings. Both Jordan and Lebron had bad casts in the beginning, and Lebron had the better casts through the majority of their careers.

However, Lebron's cast in 2007 was probably worse than any cast Jordan went to the finals with.

.

[guy]

Your categories are arbitrary.. Otoh, during the first 6 years of Jordan's career, his 2nd options of Woolridge, Oakley and 2nd year Pippen (14/6/3) weren't top 4 players at their position in the conference (all-stars), whereas Lebron's 2nd options during his first 6 seasons of Big Z and Mo Williams WERE all-stars, and therefore better relative to their competition than Jordan's cast.

Jordan's weaker cast is shown by the stats - his 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins for the 1989 Bulls, whereas Lebron's 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in for the 2009 Cavs..

The 19 win gap can't be due ONLY to an espn (https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/lebron-hate.jpg?w=1000)-documented weaker conference - it must be due to a weaker supporting cast as well.. Jordan's weaker cast also explains why he was required to DO MORE thru 31 years old, including 30% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12616538&postcount=71) more PPG in the playoffs with equal assists.

Not really sure how it's arbitrary. Just taking it year by year i.e. 85 vs 04.....91 vs 10....then taking into the account the year he missed, 95 vs 13....98 vs 16. Seems reasonable to me.

[guy]

I'm with you for the most part. Jordan's cast is criminally overrated on this board. Especially the first 3 rings. Both Jordan and Lebron had bad casts in the beginning, and Lebron had the better casts through the majority of their careers.

However, Lebron's cast in 2007 was probably worse than any cast Jordan went to the finals with.

.

It's revisionist history. People don't remember that Jordan was getting a lot of the same "he doesn't have enough help", "someone else needs to step up", "he's carrying his team" type discussion from the media that's Lebron getting, and that was even while they were winning titles. 96 was the only year I can think of where there wasn't a lot of that. Whether or not that was deserved, in 20-30 years people will forget this for Lebron as well when all they really pay attention to is the big names around him for a large portion of his career.

[3ball]

.
Bigger Overachievement: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)


NO COMPARISON..

[3ball]

Lebron's cast in 2007 was probably worse than any cast that Jordan went to the finals with.


But Lebron's CONFERENCE was far far weaker than Jordan ever played in, as proven by the stats - Lebron was able to make the 2007 Finals by averaging only 24 ppg on 42% in ECSF, and 25 ppg on 45% in ECF, which would be the worst stats of Jordan's playoff career and would get him out of the 1st round, let alone make the damn Finals.

Just compare Jordan's 1989 run to Lebron's 2007 run, as shown in the previous post above.. Jordan's run was clearly far more impressive.





Lebron's cast in 2007 was probably worse than any cast that Jordan went to the finals with.


True, but that's due to a weaker conference, as shown above.

More importantly, the 538 (http://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?quality=90&strip=all&w=575&ssl=1) rankings show that Jordan WON championships in 1991 and 1993 with weaker casts than Lebron ever won with.. And this is common knowledge, which is why Jordan's playoff and Finals stats during his 1st three-peat are GOAT, and unmatched by anyone.

[ClipperRevival]

.
Bigger Overachievement: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)


NO COMPARISON..

MJ's 1988-89 playoff run is very underrated when you consider his team's seeding (6) and the teams he faced (1, 2 and 3). He pretty much did all he could humanly do given his supporting cast. Detroit was just way too balanced and good for the Bulls.

[3ball]

MJ's 1988-89 playoff run is very underrated when you consider his team's seeding (6) and the teams he faced (1, 2 and 3). He pretty much did all he could humanly do given his supporting cast. Detroit was just way too balanced and good for the Bulls.
Indeed, the 538 (http://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?quality=90&strip=all&w=575&ssl=1) rankings show that Jordan WON RINGS with the weaker casts than Lebron ever won with, and his 1989 run that you reference was the biggest carry-job of a lottery roster ever.

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.. So that team was a LOTTERY roster without Jordan and headed nowhere, yet Jordan led them to 6 games with the champion Pistons in ECF, and started a 3-peat just a year later (exact same roster)..

That's the biggest impact on a lottery team.
.

[Hey Yo]

James 2015 Finals is a bigger overachievement than MJ's 89 postseason.

[3ball]

James 2015 Finals is a bigger overachievement than MJ's 89 postseason.


Indeed, both guys took the champs 6 games with lottery rosters.. :confusedshrug:

Except Jordan led his lottery roster ALL SEASON, whereas Lebron only had a lottery roster in the Finals (Kyrie was healthy in ECF)... Therefore, Jordan's carry-job is far superior, as usual.. :cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

MJ's 1988-89 playoff stats (17 games):

34.8 PPG, 29.9 PER, .510%, 7.0 RPG, 7.6 APG, 2.5 SPG, 4.0 TOV


LeBron's 2014-15 playoff stats (20 games):

30.1 PPG, 25.3 PER, .417%, 11.3 RPG, 8.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 4.1 TOV

[Hey Yo]

Indeed, both guys took the champs 6 games with lottery rosters.. :confusedshrug:

Except Jordan led his lottery roster ALL SEASON, whereas Lebron only had a lottery roster in the Finals (Kyrie was healthy in ECF)... Therefore, Jordan's carry-job is far superior, as usual.. :cheers:
Kyrie only played 2 games in the ECF against the 60 win #1 seed home court Hawks and avg. 13/3/5 which led to the LeBron sweep.

James 2015 carry-job > 89 MJ

[ClipperRevival]

It's funny how we are comparing MJ's 1988-89 season to LeBron's 2014-15 season.

For MJ, the Pistons had to devise the "Jordan Rules" starting in game 4 after MJ's Bulls went up 2-1 against the Pistons.

On the flipside, the Warriors thought they didn't even need to double LeBron, single covering him about 80% of the time.

These are just simple facts. One guy warranted GOAT level attention from the D while the other saw single coverage most of the time.

[jayfan]

James 2015 Finals is a bigger overachievement than MJ's 89 postseason.

Getting to the finals or pushing the finals to 6 games?

Not sure I'd agree with either.


.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Getting to the finals or pushing the finals to 6 games?

Not sure I'd agree with either.


.
Seriously. Played probably the weakest 60 win team I've ever seen, the '15 Hawks.

[3ball]

For MJ, the Pistons had to devise the "Jordan Rules" starting in game 4 after MJ's Bulls went up 2-1 against the Pistons.



The Pistons did NOT start the Jordan Rules midway through the 1989 series:



Sports Illustrated



"On the afternoon of April 3, 1988, Jordan embarrassed Detroit by scoring 59 points in a nationally televised game that Chicago won 112-110. That wasn’t the first time Jordan had worn out the Pistons—he had gone for 49, 47, 61 and 49 against them during various games in previous seasons. But after the 59-point effort, Detroit coach Chuck Daly had seen enough. “We made up our minds right then and there that Michael Jordan was not going to beat us by himself again,” says Daly. “We had to commit to a total team concept to get it done.”

http://ballislife.com/4-3-88-michael-jordan-scores-59-21-27fg-vs-the-bad-boy-pistons/



It makes a lot more sense that the "Jordan Rules" were something that was DEVELOPED OVER TIME, rather than some gimmick created midway through a series..

The Jordan Rules are the reason MJ averaged only 27 ppg vs. the Pistons in 1988 Playoffs, after averaging 42 ppg up until that point.. GRADUALLY, Jordan got better and better against the Jordan Rules - by 1990, he was crushing the "rules" and would've defeated the Pistons that year if not for Pippen's GOAT choke (2 pts, 1-10 in Game 7).

[ClipperRevival]

[QUOTE=3ball]The Pistons did NOT start the Jordan Rules midway through the 1989 series:



Sports Illustrated

[INDENT][INDENT]"[SIZE="3"][I]On the afternoon of April 3, 1988, Jordan embarrassed Detroit by scoring 59 points in a nationally televised game that Chicago won 112-110. That wasn

[Dragonyeuw]

[QUOTE=3ball]The Pistons did NOT start the Jordan Rules midway through the 1989 series:



Sports Illustrated

[INDENT][INDENT]"[SIZE="3"][I]On the afternoon of April 3, 1988, Jordan embarrassed Detroit by scoring 59 points in a nationally televised game that Chicago won 112-110. That wasn