90's basketball looks so dated and archaic compared

[AirBonner]

To modern basketball. No wonder Jordan dominated. It is safe to say Jordan would not do the same in today's era.

[FreezingTsmoove]

:sleeping

[feyki]

This *** will make me Brad Stevens hater . How old are you ? Under ten ?

[sdot_thadon]

It's the natural progression of things, old era guys don't want to see it but it is what it is. What's revolutionary in one era becomes commonplace the next. That's the whole reason we see role players doing the things only elite guys could do in previous eras, just my theory anyhow.

[KirbyPls]

It's the natural progression of things, old era guys don't want to see it but it is what it is. What's revolutionary in one era becomes commonplace the next. That's the whole reason we see role players doing the things only elite guys could do in previous eras, just my theory anyhow.

This kind of thoughtful, well-reasoned perspective has no place here. :facepalm

[MiseryCityTexas]

It's the natural progression of things, old era guys don't want to see it but it is what it is. What's revolutionary in one era becomes commonplace the next. That's the whole reason we see role players doing the things only elite guys could do in previous eras, just my theory anyhow.


Yet all NBA players do is whine in todays league while players of the 90s and early 2000s used to fight. Players during the 90s had much longer basketball careers also.

[MiseryCityTexas]

The league is supposed to be so much better today, but superstars always have to link up with other superstars just to win games while 90s players did it with limited help.:oldlol:

[AirBonner]

It's the natural progression of things, old era guys don't want to see it but it is what it is. What's revolutionary in one era becomes commonplace the next. That's the whole reason we see role players doing the things only elite guys could do in previous eras, just my theory anyhow.
Well said. This is why comparing two different eras of basketball is pointless. You could see it when Iverson and kobe came into the league. Jordan had never played against that caliber of a player before and obviously struggled.

[fourkicks44]

Firstly, this:


:sleeping

It actually hasn't changed that much at all. Beside for a lil bit less grabbing, some longer rage shooting and the lack of dominate big men things are pretty constant. Check the footage.

[kamil]

I'd rather watch reruns of 90s games than todays NBA basketball.

[3ball]

It is safe to say Jordan would not do the same in today's era.



Let's look at the BEST players Lebron has ever faced:



1) SHAQ



Lebron moments:



2004-2006 were the only years of Lebron's career where Shaq had some prime left - during those years, Lebron finished behind Shaq in MVP voting (2004 and 2005), and lost the conference to him (2005 and 2006).. Lebron never dunked on him.




Jordan moments:



Jordan won the conference and finished ahead of Shaq in MVP voting from 1996-1998 while winning MVP over prime Shaq in 1996 and 1998.. He also dunked on him, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif).




2. KOBE:



Lebron moments:



- Lebron watched Jordan's protoge (mini-Jordan) win more championships when both were in their prime, and also watched Kobe save the team in the 2008 Olympics.

- Lebron missed the much-anticipated, Kobe/Lebron matchup in 2009 and 2010 Finals, because his top-seeded team underachieved by losing to lower seeds in earlier rounds.




Jordan moments:



- MJ dunked on Kobe in their first ever possession vs. each other, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2015/Q3fm0o.gif)

- MJ showed his protege how it's done by hitting the game-winner in the first game of the 1997 Finals, after Kobe had airballed 4 straight game-winner attempts against the same team earlier in the playoffs.

- MJ passed the torch to his protoge in the 1998 all-star game by scoring on him at will (5 times in head-to-head possessions, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3sto7KGQs&t=0m16s)).





3. DUNCAN



Lebron moments:



- Lebron missed the infamous game-tying 3-pointer and needed Ray Allen to save him




Jordan moments:



- Jordan MADE his game-tying 3-pointer from the exact same spot during his first meeting with Duncan/Popovich in 1998 (the shot is shown here (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif))... Then he dominated the OT, including 2 dunks over Duncan, shown here (https://media.giphy.com/media/26FPq7nUqs2V8LyNO/giphy.gif)..

Later in that 1998 season, Jordan won the Finals against the team (Jazz) that destroyed Duncan's Spurs in WCF 2nd Round (Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's Spurs won 56 games in RS).




4. GARNETT:



Lebron moments:



- Lebron got his shit pushed in during 2008 and 2010 ECSF




Jordan moments:



- Jordan schooled Garnett in the 1998 all-star game (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-30-2015/q8-1iR.gif)) and during the regular season (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/6agjm-.gif), here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/EfFINb.gif) and here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/Jp9ACT.gif)).

- The only time where MJ and Garnett were matched up defensively for an entire game was during a 2002 contest - both were matched up at SF, and 38-year old Jordan scored 35 on Garnett in every way imagineable, including various blow-by dunks and layups, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0).




Bonus - SHAWN MARION:



Lebron moments:



- Lebron got locked down by OLD Shawn Marion during the 2011 Finals, which was one of the greatest chokes ever by a star in the Finals.




Jordan moments:



- 38-year old Jordan hit the game-winner in PRIME Shawn Marion's face during a contest in 2002 (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg&t=0m09s)), and then destroyed him for 41 points in another contest (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg)).





6. 2003-2004 seasons



JORDAN 2003: 19.3 PER.. 20.0 ppg.. 44.5 fg
LEBRON 2004: 18.3 PER.. 20.9 ppg.. 41.7 fg
.

[FKAri]

Buncha no-game having stiffs.

[sdot_thadon]

Yet all NBA players do is whine in todays league while players of the 90s and early 2000s used to fight. Players during the 90s had much longer basketball careers also.
I can't argue with that, I'm not really saying one is better or worse. Just from an aesthetic point of view this era had the benefit of learning and mimicking previous eras, then adding their own flair to it. In some cases creating things not seen in previous eras. This isn't anything new, it's happened every era to the next.

[3ball]

90's basketball looks so dated and archaic compared to today


there was no spacing.. and the rules were geared FOR the defense (legal hand-checking, no modern defensive 3 second rule)

essentially, if today's nba removed the 3-point line (so there was no spacing) and then removed the current defensive 3 second rule while also allowing hand-checking and physicality again, today's NBA would be much tougher and require superior skill than is currently being used to make great plays - this is intuitive.. :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

sdot is like a mouse in a cage - he can only think like 3 things

[jstern]

I don't know. I find the 90s game more entertaining. I guess it's similar situation to Soccer. I can't see what's so interesting about it, but millions of people who understand it and know the players feel differently.

I was watching this video yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz6jigLGMd4 and I thought, imagine Jordan playing in a league where instead of being forced to display such all around skills to get shots off, those skills would be replaced by an easier to get and more efficient 3 point shot. The former is just more skilled.

[andgar923]

The game looks different because it was purposely changed to make it more appealing to the masses.

They tinkered with the rules to allow the offensive players more freedom.

The game looked slower back then because it was geared to be more physical/defense oriented with the big men being the focus. So you saw more low post scoring i.e. slower uglier game.

[3ball]

In some cases creating things not seen in previous eras.


The things today's game has that wasn't seen in previous eras is more ball-dominance, more 3-point attempts, commodotized plays designed to GET 3-point attempts, insane spacing that results FROM the 3-point attempts, and inferior skill needed to make great plays BECAUSE of the easier spacing.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have the luxury of today's spacing, so superior skill was needed that isn't seen today, including superior post, midrange and 1-on-1 ability, as well as more sophisticated teamwork needed to make great plays in no-spacing environments.

[3ball]

The game looks different because it was purposely changed to make it more appealing to the masses.



The NBA was remarkably effective in their objective - they wanted more drive-and-kick, and they got it:



NBA (Stu Jackson): Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration]. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


:eek: .... these fu.ckers knew what they were doing.



NBA (Stu): With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


:eek: .... damn, that's exactly what we see today.






The game looked slower back then because it was geared to be more physical/defense oriented with the big men being the focus. So you saw more low post scoring i.e. slower uglier game.


The league wanted more drive-and-kick, so they changed the rules to make that form of basketball easier.

So today's game has things that previous eras didn't, including more ball-dominance, more 3-point attempts, commodotized plays designed to GET 3-point attempts, insane spacing that results FROM the 3-point attempts, and inferior skill needed to make great plays BECAUSE of the easier spacing.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have the luxury of today's spacing, so superior skill was needed that isn't seen today, including superior post, midrange and 1-on-1 ability, as well as more sophisticated teamwork needed to make great plays in no-spacing environments.

[Spurs m8]

OP proving he's a rookie in the field of bball.

Cute take though.

[AirBonner]

OP proving he's a rookie in the field of bball.

Cute take though.
While I appreciate your opinion you can kindly **** off mate. You bring nothing to the table like that other aussiewestbrickverticalsucking dingo.

[AirFederer]

The things today's game has that wasn't seen in previous eras is more ball-dominance, more 3-point attempts, commodotized plays designed to GET 3-point attempts, insane spacing that results FROM the 3-point attempts, and inferior skill needed to make great plays BECAUSE of the easier spacing.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have the luxury of today's spacing, so superior skill was needed that isn't seen today, including superior post, midrange and 1-on-1 ability, as well as more sophisticated teamwork needed to make great plays in no-spacing environments.

This. Watching a hundred 3s a game vs toughing it out from midrange and and - I know which type of ball I prefere..

[Bawkish]

To modern basketball. No wonder Jordan dominated. It is safe to say Jordan would not do the same in today's era.

don't be ignorant

if anything, today's superstars & would be HOFers should thank MJ for this era's brand of basketball. When MJ retired, the NBA changed the game by favoring guards/wingman in order to weed out the next MJ. If not for MJ, today's game would still be dominated by big men just like the '80s/'90s

[ClipperRevival]

It's the natural progression of things, old era guys don't want to see it but it is what it is. What's revolutionary in one era becomes commonplace the next. That's the whole reason we see role players doing the things only elite guys could do in previous eras, just my theory anyhow.

PLEASE elaborate.

[FKAri]

don't be ignorant

if anything, today's superstars & would be HOFers should thank MJ for this era's brand of basketball. When MJ retired, the NBA changed the game by favoring guards/wingman in order to weed out the next MJ. If not for MJ, today's game would still be dominated by big men just like the '80s/'90s
But at the same time the big men of today haven't been subverted but instead suck right?

[Kblaze8855]

Go watch some of those early 2000s Spurs/Pistons/Nets/Pacers/76ers debacles where a great team can easily be held to 35-50 points going into the 4th with players/coaches still out there these days and see if you can figure out what happened.

Players have been essentially on the same level my entire life. What changes is the rules and what they are asked to do.

The only differences I see now vs when I was a kid is guys with more muscular upper bodies, more players having good handle as guard skills became something even tall people were expected to have, and guys being able to shoot from 25 feet instead of 18.

But most of the guys who shoot from outside....are worse than the old guys were midrange. So im not sure its better shooting....as much as different.

One thing I can tell is factually improved...handles.

Handles were the only thing that had much room to advance. Mostly because they let you carry and travel but still....guys came up watching and 1 mixtapes and learning wild moves and it shows.

Guys like Muggsy, Rod Strickland, Isiah and so on could control the ball as well as Kyrie or Steph but they wouldnt look so flashy doing it. You arent gonna just....take the ball from Rod Strickland any easier than Kyrie. But it doesnt look as flashy because when he was 12 it was 1978 and he had Tiny Archibald and then Michael Ray Richardson to watch. When Kyrie was 12 he had:

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/stash-1-5103411a05285.gif



https://media.giphy.com/media/9cJspIejIjZAc/giphy.gif


We all remember late 90s/early 2000s when kids "practicing" were outside doing and 1 moves. When isolation ball became all they did.

These kids had handles...legal or not...and they are 22-30 right now.

So handles....yea. Handles are much prettier.

The rest? Its just differences in what you ask the players to do and what the rules let them get away with.

[ClipperRevival]

Having played the game full time since 1990, I find it offensive when youngsters try to degrade previous eras, especially something as recent as the late 80's/early 90's. You want to degrade maybe the 50's/60's, fine, I can give you that.

Bball is a game of skill, not just pure athleticism like track & field. And anything that involves skill, a sport can go backwards if skills aren't stressed.

Like today, the game is pace/space, 3 point shooting and a bunch of P&R. They are emphasizing either shooting the 3 or taking lay ups. But the game is so much more than that. The league pretty much frowns upon post play, mid-range game and footwork. And players are sorely lacking in that department. Why? Because they don't work on them. Those are huge, fundamental parts of the game. How many times do you see a guy today get the ball 15-18 feet from the basket, wide open and he has no idea what to do? :facepalm That's not bball at the highest level. Anytime you get a shot like that, you should be thanking the Gods for getting such a clean look.

And what about the P&R? That's pretty much an easy way to lose your man. And it obviously works.

Anyone who states that the 90's were some outdated and archaic brand of ball is simply IGNORANT. Nothing more, nothing less. They just don't know any better. The game does not change that much. As Kblaze said, it's the rules that dictate the style of play being played in an era.

Today, bball mirrors the NFL. Can anyone with a straight face say that the NFL is better than it ever has been given how you can't hit anyone high or low, can't even touch the QB or the WR? Like the NBA, the NFL rules have favored offense too much. Half the QB's are throwing for 4,500 yards a year and teams hardly run the ball anymore. That is not football at the highest level. But given the rules, teams obviously go with the pass. You want to see football at the highest level, see the early 90's Cowboys or the 90's 49ers. Offense, defense, passing, running game, etc.

Yes, the game is different. But different doesn't mean the game was inferior in the past. There are flaws in both eras. In the 90's, they could've stressed better spacing. That's an obvious now but it wasn't then. That made the court more cramped, which is obviously a bad thing. They also could've stressed the P&R more because it obviously is advantage offense. It frees up people and makes the D scramble. So you can say these are two aspects of the game that have evolved for the better.

On the flip side, today's game is sorely lacking in footwork, post play and mid-range game. Those three are all huge parts of the game. And most guys don't have a clue on how to do them in-game.

So you see, it's the rules that dictate what skills will be emphasized. Doesn't mean the game in the past, especially an era as recent as the late 80's/early 90's was somehow inferior.

[ClipperRevival]

And let me add that MJ in today's era, with the soft rules, no physicality allowed, no hand checking, better spacing and emphasis on small ball (which means less rim protection), he would put up better numbers than he did in the past. That's OBVIOUS for anyone who has been around.

MJ played in maybe the toughest era ever for perimeter players. Highest level of physicality allowed, hand checking, GOAT level bigs protecting the paint and no spacing. And he still was the GOAT.

[Kblaze8855]

There are areas where things have improved. Preparation has improved. But its always things like that. Things outside how good the players/coaches are. I was reading the Bird/Magic book and Magic mentioned how they used to have a scouting service everyone used. It didnt have people enough to watch every game....so information was lacking at times. And early in his career some scout saw a game vs a team that really slowed the game up. They defended the inbounder so they could get back. Tried to keep it from Magic on the break. Scout leaves under the impression that they dont like to run(.....). He tells the team hes scouting for this.....and when they played Magic ran them out of the building because they were trying to speed the game up to throw HIM off.

Scouting has improved by miles and miles. The players themselves though?

I hear people talking like that and im on some Amare shit:




















http://h11.abload.de/img/untitled-2ovjj0.gif

[jstern]

Go watch some of those early 2000s Spurs/Pistons/Nets/Pacers/76ers debacles where a great team can easily be held to 35-50 points going into the 4th with players/coaches still out there these days and see if you can figure out what happened.

Players have been essentially on the same level my entire life. What changes is the rules and what they are asked to do.

The only differences I see now vs when I was a kid is guys with more muscular upper bodies, more players having good handle as guard skills became something even tall people were expected to have, and guys being able to shoot from 25 feet instead of 18.

But most of the guys who shoot from outside....are worse than the old guys were midrange. So im not sure its better shooting....as much as different.

One thing I can tell is factually improved...handles.

Handles were the only thing that had much room to advance. Mostly because they let you carry and travel but still....guys came up watching and 1 mixtapes and learning wild moves and it shows.

Guys like Muggsy, Rod Strickland, Isiah and so on could control the ball as well as Kyrie or Steph but they wouldnt look so flashy doing it. You arent gonna just....take the ball from Rod Strickland any easier than Kyrie. But it doesnt look as flashy because when he was 12 it was 1978 and he had Tiny Archibald and then Michael Ray Richardson to watch. When Kyrie was 12 he had:

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/stash-1-5103411a05285.gif



https://media.giphy.com/media/9cJspIejIjZAc/giphy.gif


We all remember late 90s/early 2000s when kids "practicing" were outside doing and 1 moves. When isolation ball became all they did.

These kids had handles...legal or not...and they are 22-30 right now.

So handles....yea. Handles are much prettier.

The rest? Its just differences in what you ask the players to do and what the rules let them get away with.

I don't know. I think "handles" is doing a disservice to the young people. For example, a couple of days ago I went to shoot some hoops, and I wish I could show you video. I started playing with a kid that was about 15 years old. The typical scenario happens, with my opponent dribbling, and dribbling, and trying to be fancy, and feeling confident because they think they are being good in basketball, and after 15 or so seconds they finally make a move that leads to nothing.

I on the other hand get the ball, fake right go left, lay it up with my left hand. Get the ball, cross over to my left, lay it up with my left. Or pull up for a short jumper. Not to sound arrogant, but I do have superior skills. Especially when it comes to moving with the ball, left handed, or right handed. I can move with the ball similar to moving if I didn't have the ball. This makes it very, very easy to go by my opponent. My dribbling is very, very natural flowing, but I don't waste my time over dribbling.

If I were to play how the kids in the playground play, with my level, I would dribble, and dribble, and dribble and after about 15 to 20 seconds, then I would do one of the moves that I normally do in less than a second.

Would you call that superior? In doing so the defense is going to have more chances of taking the ball away from me.

These kids focus so much on trying to look cool in order to feel confident that they spend all their time on that, and can't do anything else. Can't go to their left and lay it up with their left hand. Can't dribble full force with their left. Can't really dribble other than doing their custom made dribbling routine that's based more on what they think looks cool, rather than the best footwork to cross someone. The way I see basketball now is more like that you've been serve South Park episode, where the name of the game is not the competition of putting the ball in the hoop, but in striking the best pose. Like that's the mentality. Your opponent strikes one pose after a little dance, the crowd goes Ooooooooh, the it's the opponents turn and then he strikes and even better post that has the crowd giving a bigger oooooooooh. Less people are even playing basketball these days, compared to past decades, so if all this keeps up, we could have a less skilled game, but with much better posing making fans think that the game is more skilled than now.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't know. I think "handles" is doing a disservice to the young people. For example, a couple of days ago I went to shoot some hoops, and I wish I could show you video. I started playing with a kid that was about 15 years old. The typical scenario happens, with my opponent dribbling, and dribbling, and trying to be fancy, and feeling confident because they think they are being good in basketball, and after 15 or so seconds they finally make a move that leads to nothing.

I on the other hand get the ball, fake right go left, lay it up with my left hand. Get the ball, cross over to my left, lay it up with my left. Or pull up for a short jumper. Not to sound arrogant, but I do have superior skills. Especially when it comes to moving with the ball, left handed, or right handed. I can move with the ball similar to moving if I didn't have the ball. This makes it very, very easy to go by my opponent. My dribbling is very, very natural flowing, but I don't waste my time over dribbling.

If I were to play how the kids in the playground play, with my level, I would dribble, and dribble, and dribble and after about 15 to 20 seconds, then I would do one of the moves that I normally do in less than a second.

Would you call that superior? In doing so the defense is going to have more chances of taking the ball away from me.

These kids focus so much on trying to look cool in order to feel confident that they spend all their time on that, and can't do anything else. Can't go to their left and lay it up with their left hand. Can't dribble full force with their left. Can't really dribble other than doing their custom made dribbling routine that's based more on what they think looks cool, rather than the best footwork to cross someone. The way I see basketball now is more like that you've been serve South Park episode, where the name of the game is not the competition of putting the ball in the hoop, but in striking the best pose. Like that's the mentality. Your opponent strikes one pose after a little dance, the crowd goes Ooooooooh, the it's the opponents turn and then he strikes and even better post that has the crowd giving a bigger oooooooooh. Less people are even playing basketball these days, compared to past decades, so if all this keeps up, we could have a less skilled game, but with much better posing making fans think that the game is more skilled than now.

I patterned my game after MJ. And like MJ, I never do that between the legs, live dribble stuff in iso for 15 seconds like Harden. That's just a waste of the shot clock and pointless. I would rather plant and explode and make a decisive move, like you said. That isn't as flashy but more effective.

A lot of kids obviously try to get the flashy stuff down without working on the fundamentals. Of course anyone who knows the game will know that this will eventually backfire on this kid once he steps up his level of competition against guys who can actually play. Without the fundamentals, you got nothing.

[andgar923]

I agree with the oldies.

Dribbling has become flashier and complex, but outside of a very very small situations not that useful.

I can do most of the newer And1 stuff but I rarely use it in actual game play because it's more effective to do the basic.

Very rarely did I ever need to do something flashy.

I get the appeal, but it's not essential.

[smoove1986]

man, it's so boring how people keep on arguing that jordan was this and jordan was that ans today's nba is xyz while 90's basketball was zyx.... jordan was the outstanding player of his era, maybe he would not dominate todays's nba with his playstyle, but would a man of jordan's talent play the same sytle today that he had playing then? Probably not. So we simply don't know.
Jesse Owens was the best athlete of his time. His records are ridicoulos compared to current sprint records. but how would jesse owens perform when he was born in 1998 and get current medical services? he would run better times for sure.
simply accept the fact that we can't compare single atheltes of different eras to each other when it's all about "who was better"

[andgar923]

man, it's so boring how people keep on arguing that jordan was this and jordan was that ans today's nba is xyz while 90's basketball was zyx.... jordan was the outstanding player of his era, maybe he would not dominate todays's nba with his playstyle, but would a man of jordan's talent play the same sytle today that he had playing then? Probably not. So we simply don't know.
Jesse Owens was the best athlete of his time. His records are ridicoulos compared to current sprint records. but how would jesse owens perform when he was born in 1998 and get current medical services? he would run better times for sure.
simply accept the fact that we can't compare single atheltes of different eras to each other when it's all about "who was better"
This would be accurate if MJ hadn't played in the 2k era and vs some of today's stars that still played in today's era, because we would never have known.

But we did.

MJ had some great moments as a wiz even at an age in which he should've been sitting on the bench averaging 7 ppg.

We saw him light up many of today's top defenders and teams.

[smoove1986]

well I didn't want to say jordan would be less effective today. I just wanted to make clear that your playstyle depends on the era you're playing. jordan's talent was outstanding so he probably even destroyd today's nba if he learnt to play during the early 2000's. but we simply don't know! at the age of 40 he still played well especially for his age. but I wouldn't call it "destroying". AndI think that nba around 2000 was different then nowadays.
Jordan was so obsessed with beeing competitive, I doubt he would stop training to shoot threes these days until he was a 50% shooterjust because it's a shooting era right now :D

[3ball]

I just wanted to make clear that your playstyle depends on the era you're playing. jordan's talent was outstanding so he probably would destroy today's nba if he learned to play during the 2000's. but we simply don't know!


What part of Jordan's game was deficient and/or would he need to improve to dominate today's game??

Don't say 3-point shooting, because Lebron's career 3-point percentage is only 33% (regular season and playoffs combined), while Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler only shoot 30%.. These percentages are all below the league-average of 35%.

Furthermore, they are all bad shooters from midrange too!!... So MOST of today's top wings are below-average 3-point shooters, and bad midrange shooters - indeed, most of today's top wings CAN'T SHOOT.

Otoh, Jordan was the goat midrange shooter, and shot the same 33% that Lebron shoots from 3-point range.. So again, what aspect of Jordan's game would he need to improve to dominate today's game?... You seem to forget that Jordan HAD NO WEAKNESSES.





it's a shooting era right now


More players shoot 3's today, but most of today's BEST wings are actually poor shooters from both 3-point and midrange - here's the actual stats that prove most of the best wings are POOR shooters:

The 6'3" Westbrick had an MVP-caliber season and was scoring champ in 2015 despite shooting 29.9% from 3-point range and 36.9% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) from midrange - accordingly, Jordan's superior athletic specimen and goat midrange shooting would do even better.

Ditto for the 6'4", brick-laying Wade in 2009, who was scoring champ while shooting 31.7% on three pointers and 41.6% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) from midrange.

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) have poor midrange and 3-point efficiency (can't shoot), but they're still top scorers because today's spacing and hands-off defense allows good athletes easier access to the rim.. MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he was a goat midrange shooter (49% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) in 1997, and 50.4% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415733) in 91' and 92'), which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.







https://media.giphy.com/media/LfkkYc1J1cOAM/giphy.gif


as a Wizard, he still played well especially for his age. but I wouldn't call it "destroying".


The above GIF is from the 40th game of the season, when he was one of 3 guys averaging 25/5/5.. Through 43 games, his averages were 25.2/6.2/5.2, as the stats show here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/2002/#931-973-sum:pgl_basic) - that was before he got hurt and limped through the his last 15 games (he only played 60 games that year).

But even if you don't think Wizards' Jordan was destroying in 2001, then let's look at 3 years prior in 1998, when Jordan was MVP of regular season, all-star game and Finals.. Let's compare the best players from TODAY'S game, to the best ALL-STARS that Jordan defeated for MVP in 1998:


Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Scottie Pippen, Clyde Drexler, Gary Payton, Kobe Bryant, Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem David Robinson

The top players from today are clearly worse than the top players from 1998, who Jordan was MVP over at every juncture of the season.. :confusedshrug:

[smoove1986]

you got some good pointw and I'm really not into "MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE". my point is more: jordan would be still outstandning, but we just don't know how he would perform against lebron, durant, cousins. Well since I'm not a native english speaker it's maybe hard to explain accurate but imho it's not about "BUT JORDAN PLAYED AGAINST OLAJUWON; EWING; SHAQ!!!!! SO HE'D TOTALLY DESTROYED COUSINS OR DRUMMOND!!!!!!"

I'm a 90' s kid and think that jordan is the greatest basketballplayer of all time but I simply think u shouldn't compare different era to each others. and even though jordan played the early 2000's and rocked it....we don't know how a prime jordan really would have performed these days...so simply enjoy he beauty of the game and accept that each era has it own style. that's my point..

[3ball]

I simply think u shouldn't compare different era to each others.


It's okay to compare the eras if you're aware of the differences.. The problem is that most people aren't, so they can't intelligently compare players of describe how they would do in a different era.







https://media.giphy.com/media/kuxrP8FGf6LTO/giphy.gif


we don't know how a prime jordan really would have performed these days..

each era has it's own style



Indeed.. Look at the typical spread floor, screen-roll setup of today's game, shown above.. Notice how the spread floor forces big men to defend guards on the perimeter.. But bigs can't defend guards CLOSELY, so ballhandlers enjoy wide open mid-range shots anytime they want, as seen the gif above, and repeatedly in gifs here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12637249&postcount=18).. Of course, most players in today's game have poor midrange, so they can't take advantage of this cupcake setup like goat midrange shooters CP3 or MJ.

The automatic midrange pull-ups resulting from this setup, coupled with easier penetration from wider driving lanes and hands-off defense, would enhance Jordan's ability as a ballhandler, JUST LIKE IT HAS EVERYONE ELSE'S.. Today's game is designed to facilitate ballhandlers and perimeter players - this is common knowledge and Jordan would obviously benefit from this.

At times, he'd use screen-rolls incessantly and be ball-dominant like Harden or Lebron, or the time he played point guard for 24 games in 1989, when he averaged 30/9/11, including 10 triple doubles in 11 games (documented here (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games) and here (http://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/)).

However, today's spread floor and superior spacing makes it easier for OFF-BALL players too, not just ballhandlers.. Jordan was arguably the goat off-ball player, in addition to being a 30/9/11 point guard, so every aspect of his game woud be enhanced today - indeed, spacing and less physical defense makes ALL aspects of offense easier.. Again, this is common knowledge, which is why many coaches and players say that MJ would average 40+ in today's game.

[egokiller]

Lebron will always be in MJ's shadow, and there's nothing anyone can do or say that will ever change that.

[theaussieguy]

agree with OP, its a tired old game with a bunch of knockabout fellas tryna do their best with what limited talent they possessed

[egokiller]

Players running around shooting 3's because any touch is a foul call is only entertaining to viewers that never watched real 90's ball.

[sdot_thadon]

PLEASE elaborate.
With pleasure. One thing that amazes me is guys on here claiming to have watched the 90's live as I did, seem to lack the perspective that the 90's was viewed by some the exact same way you guys view the 10's. The 90's doppelgangers of you fellows were screaming at the moon about Mj carrying (what you guys call palming now) and traveling and how if he was called the same way as everyone else he wouldn't be that good, how he was a ballhog amongst others. The Internet wasn't even accessible period for the average person then, so our net were places like barbershops, bars(though I was too young myself), domino/card tables, the park etc.

One of the biggest changes with each generation is the freedom allowed with the ball increases. It's happened in increments here and there over time. The biggest reason the 60's game looks so dated in comparison to the 90's? Well the 90's ball handlers would be called for countless turnovers due to dribbling and driving restrictions. So don't throw stones 90's......

Back to the message at hand, as I said things that were innovations usually become more of the norm the next generation down the line. And by that I don't mean it in the literal sense that every single move or strategy becomes easy. Guys watched Baylor do his damge in the 60s and it became Dr.j or guys like David thompson who Mj sites as an inspiration to his game. To the next generation, the kobes of the world who drew from Mj. These guys got to study the ones who came before them and copy their moves. The average wing now has a huge gap in certain skills over the last era. Sure they lost some in the process but it's more of a stylistic trade off. Dare I say copying Mj actually led to one of the most disliked eras in the nba. Elite dribbling techniques back then are more or less common moves now. 3's? Enough said.

Guys who capture the imagination of young players shape the following eras....Just wait until the generation of lebron clones hit or when off the dribble 3's are considered a fundamental skill. See how you like the game then.

[theaussieguy]

Players running around shooting 3's because any touch is a foul call is only entertaining to viewers that never watched real 90's ball.

its harder to shoot 3's at a high clip and employ insane ball handling skills than it is to dose moderate amounts of steroids and bump people out of the way and dropping the ball in the hoop because you just happen to be tall. Its a skilled game these days, height matters but to a far less extent aka small ball. None of this knockabout bumbling big man shit.

[3ball]

most 3-pointers are wide open due to the spacing.. over 80% of threes are taken with over 4+ feet of room.

let me know if you want nba.com's data proving this.

this shouldn't be a surprise - the spacing caused by 3-pointers make it hard for defenders to cover the extra ground and recover to shooters

[3ball]

its harder to shoot 3's at a high clip and employ insane ball handling skills than it is to dose moderate amounts of steroids and bump people out of the way and dropping the ball in the hoop because you just happen to be tall. Its a skilled game these days, height matters but to a far less extent aka small ball. None of this knockabout bumbling big man shit.
huh

[3ball]

Guys watched Baylor do his damge in the 60s and it became Dr.j or guys like David thompson who Mj sites as an inspiration to his game.


Yeah, those guys had superior 1-on-1 ability out of the post and triple-threat (pre-dribble, stationary position), so no one in today's game plays like any of those guys.

Otoh, today's players have superior 1-on-1 ability off-the-dribble, which is usually less effective than post or triple-threat, unless it's part of a screen-roll and/or drive-and-kick.





The average wing now has a huge gap in certain skills over the last era.


Again, today's players are better 1-on-1 players off-the-dribble, while previous eras were superior 1-on-1 players on the post and from the triple-threat.

So any advantage would go to previous eras, because in addition to superior post and triple-threat ability among wings, previous eras had VASTLY superior 1-on-1 ability among big men.. Like, who would win a game of 1-on-1: today's best center (DeAndre), or Kareem.. Or Hakeem... Or Shaq... Heck, Jack Sikma or Artis Gilmore, who were far more skilled offensively.





Elite dribbling techniques back then are more or less common moves now.

3's? Enough said.


Indeed, today's game has more ball-dominance and 3-pointers as you mentioned above, along with commodotized plays designed to GET 3-point attempts, insane spacing that results FROM the 3-point attempts, and inferior skill needed to make great plays BECAUSE of the spacing resulting from more 3-point attempts.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have the luxury of today's spacing, so superior skill was needed in the post, midrange and 1-on-1 game, as well as more sophisticated, superior teamwork needed to make great plays in no-spacing environments.





90's ball handlers would be called for countless turnovers due to dribbling and driving restrictions if they played in the 60's. So don't throw stones 90's......


Agreed - no one argued that the palming violations were stricter in the 90's - the enforcement of palming or carrying have been the same since the 80's..

The difference now is that players dribble more and learned a lot of moves from AND1 in the mid-late 90's, early 2000's.

If you actually PLAYED ball with pros with handles like John Salmons or Carlos Arroyo, this would be common knowledge to you, rather than your smug condescension towards anyone that didn't watch in the 90's like you claim to have..

[NuggetsFan]

It's kinda the same across all sports. They've learned different things so they tinker with it to try and improve it. Schemes become more diverse and complicated. Technology advances things. Think back to how you watched games in the 90's vs LP today. 15 years from now the internet will have greatly benefited the game. Currently sits a 12 year old Kobe obsessing about the insane amount of information he has at his finger tips. Ipads, easier travelling, video room, advanced analytics. It's all changed the game. Personal preference which is better.

Same with sports like hockey and football. Only thing that is inarguable is the talent pool IMO. fringe starters - 12 men are better today than in 1991. From top to bottom with improved training regimens, better scouting, more dedicated league play etc. etc. the average to below average players have improved. Guys at the top are typically the same. Someone like Al Jefferson would have been better in the 90's where as any insert solid post big would have been worse off starting his career post '05. So elite players would depend on there skillset.

[3ball]

12th men and average to below-average players are better today than in 1991


Your thinking is too basic on this complex issue.

Today's game uses a lot of 3-pointers and spacing, which requires better 3-point shooting (obviously) and also better 1-on-1 ability off-the-dribble (to generate drive-and-kicks for 3-pointers).. So today's 12th men are better at these skills.

Otoh, basketball WITHOUT 3-pointers and spacing (previous eras) requires different skills, such as superior midrange shooting and 1-on-1 ability out of the post and triple-threat.. So 12th men in previous eras were better at these skills.

So it isn't accurate to make blanket statements like "today's 12th men are better"... Nah, that thinking is too basic.. Today's 12th men are better in the areas that are used and prevalent in today's spaced game, while previous eras were better at the skills that were most effective when there's NO spacing.





Someone like Al Jefferson would have been better in the 90's where as any insert solid post big would have been worse off starting his career post '05.


Al Jefferson would rank LOWER among bigs in the 80's or 90's than he does today.. That's obvious..

He'd be a good big in the 90's, but not one of the best in the league like he's been in today's era.

[NuggetsFan]

Your thinking is too basic on this complex issue.

Today's game uses a lot of 3-pointers and spacing, which requires better 3-point shooting (obviously) and also better 1-on-1 ability off-the-dribble (to generate drive-and-kicks for 3-pointers).. So today's 12th men are better at these skills.

Otoh, basketball WITHOUT 3-pointers and spacing (previous eras) requires different skills, such as superior midrange shooting and 1-on-1 ability out of the post and triple-threat.. So 12th men in previous eras were better at these skills.

So it isn't accurate to make blanket statements like "today's 12th men are better"... Nah, that thinking is too basic.. Today's 12th men are better in the areas that are used and prevalent in today's spaced game, while previous eras were better at the skills that were most effective when there's NO spacing.



Al Jefferson would rank LOWER among bigs in the 80's or 90's than he does today.. That's obvious..

He'd be a good big in the 90's, but not one of the best in the league like he's been in today's era.

Your not even worth discussing anything with but I meant Jefferson's game was better suited in the 90's. He's been an afterthought in this generation. His footwork is legit. His post play is elite. In the 90's coaches would have took advantage of that and the different offensive schemes would have paid off. Wasn't talking about "ranking higher" or whatever.

[ILLsmak]

The game looks different because it was purposely changed to make it more appealing to the masses.

They tinkered with the rules to allow the offensive players more freedom.

The game looked slower back then because it was geared to be more physical/defense oriented with the big men being the focus. So you saw more low post scoring i.e. slower uglier game.

Otoh, efficiency or not, it seemed more like a 'struggle' and that struggle, to me, more embodies 'sports.'

I don't think the term 'war' applies to modern bball. It's more appealing, but it lost the soul that made those moments appealing by contrast. Watching MJ rise up and dunk on people was good because of the struggle of getting to the hoop, bouncing off people or whatever.

I am sure there has been research done as to what people want. Frankly, I don't understand what other people desire, but I can say that I prefer harder fought sports.

To me, sports are a primal, necessary thing... as fans and as players, because they allow us to do all of the stuff we don't do in society in a safe environment. That primal part has been cut off a bit... it's not archaic, but I will say... once again, the camera work is much different now so that can cause it to look archaic.

-Smak

[smoovegittar]

Another quality post from the latest douche troll. The new Jameer. :facepalm

[swagga]

bunch of house nigggas in this thread, archaic my ass son, if you'd let these players today handcheck and manup without going dirty you'd see all these sissy 3p happy cuck teams get rolled. Fck rule enforced spacing, Fck hypocritical contact rules which kill bigs and glorify perimeter chuckers and fck the league for bastardizing the game to maximize their gains in the fagggot/hipster/soccer mom/corporate casual market. Fck them all tbh.

Jordan would absolutely cream this league as would lebron if they'd call every foul on him. Hypocritical rules killing the game, making mvps the like of harden :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[smoovegittar]

bunch of house nigggas in this thread, archaic my ass son, if you'd let these players today handcheck and manup without going dirty you'd see all these sissy 3p happy cuck teams get rolled. Fck rule enforced spacing, Fck hypocritical contact rules which kill bigs and glorify perimeter chuckers and fck the league for bastardizing the game to maximize their gains in the fagggot/hipster/soccer mom/corporate casual market. Fck them all tbh.

Jordan would absolutely cream this league as would lebron if they'd call every foul on him. Hypocritical rules killing the game, making mvps the like of harden :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Word. :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

The 90's NBA was the worst basketball of the post-24 second era. The Pistons of the late 80's had ushered in the "football" era. Gone were the flash of the "Showtime" Lakers, and the fundamentals of the HOF-laden Celtics. Replaced by bullying and plodding. Teams were routinely scoring in the 60's, and even in the 50's. Skill was replaced with physicality. The Knicks of the 90's were comprised of a team of wrestlers.

And to add to (or subtract from) that, expansion diluted talent significantly. The NBA had gone from 23 teams in the late 80's, to 29 teams by the mid-90's. Many teams had no more than one marquee player, and the best usually had no more than two.

Other than Jordan, the game became unwatchable. And when Jordan retired the first time, the league hit a low. The '94 Finals were as exciting as watching the Shopping Channel.

By the mid-2000's the NBA knew they had to do something. And much like the current NFL, it has swung completely the other way. Last season the NBA averaged 103 ppg, led by the Warriors 115.

Now it is all about shooting. Or more like three-point shooting. The mid-level game is gone. It's a game of dunks and treys now. Post-up centers have been replaced by seven-footers shooting from the arc. I still recall watching footage of the 7-0+ Thon Maker in high school. Here was a guy with handles, and standing a half foot taller than his peers, and shooting from the arc (and a horrible percentage BTW.) Instead of taking advantage of his height and quickness, and exploiting much smaller and less coordinated "big men", he was shooting 29% from the shorter high school 3 pt line.

Last season the 7-2 Porzingis took more threes than Bird did in his peak season. And while he shot about the NBA average of .333 from the arc, he only shot .454 on his two's. How does someone that tall and that coordinated shoot that poorly from inside the arc?

And whatever happened to palming and traveling? Virtually every dribble taken today would be a palming violation in the 60's and 70's. And just what is traveling today?

http://www.newsweek.com/nbas-extra-step-what-happened-traveling-254154

And how about the All Star Game? It has gone from arguably the best ASG of the major sports, to a 196-173 video game joke. They might as well have each team put four of their players down at each offensive end, and then have one guy inbound a 60 foot pass for either an unguarded three, or a waltz down an empty lane for a dunk.

It's the same in the NFL, as well. Defenders can't touch receivers or quarterbacks. The running game has been replaced by QBs throwing 30+ dink passes a game. And everyone holds their breath on every single pass attempt waiting for a flag. I foresee the day when the entire offensive game plan will be nothing but 50 yard bombs. Either a reception, or a flag (or both.)

And I don't see any of this changing anytime soon...

[AirFederer]

Hmm, Laz making sense :cheers: :applause:


The 90's NBA was the worst basketball of the post-24 second era. The Pistons of the late 80's had ushered in the "football" era. Gone were the flash of the "Showtime" Lakers, and the fundamentals of the HOF-laden Celtics. Replaced by bullying and plodding. Teams were routinely scoring in the 60's, and even in the 50's. Skill was replaced with physicality. The Knicks of the 90's were comprised of a team of wrestlers.

And to add to (or subtract from) that, expansion diluted talent significantly. The NBA had gone from 23 teams in the late 80's, to 29 teams by the mid-90's. Many teams had no more than one marquee player, and the best usually had no more than two.

Other than Jordan, the game became unwatchable. And when Jordan retired the first time, the league hit a low. The '94 Finals were as exciting as watching the Shopping Channel.

By the mid-2000's the NBA knew they had to do something. And much like the current NFL, it has swung completely the other way. Last season the NBA averaged 103 ppg, led by the Warriors 115.

Now it is all about shooting. Or more like three-point shooting. The mid-level game is gone. It's a game of dunks and treys now. Post-up centers have been replaced by seven-footers shooting from the arc. I still recall watching footage of the 7-0+ Thon Maker in high school. Here was a guy with handles, and standing a half foot taller than his peers, and shooting from the arc (and a horrible percentage BTW.) Instead of taking advantage of his height and quickness, and exploiting much smaller and less coordinated "big men", he was shooting 29% from the shorter high school 3 pt line.

Last season the 7-2 Porzingis took more threes than Bird did in his peak season. And while he shot about the NBA average of .333 from the arc, he only shot .454 on his two's. How does someone that tall and that coordinated shoot that poorly from inside the arc?

And whatever happened to palming and traveling? Virtually every dribble taken today would be a palming violation in the 60's and 70's. And just what is traveling today?

http://www.newsweek.com/nbas-extra-step-what-happened-traveling-254154

And how about the All Star Game? It has gone from arguably the best ASG of the major sports, to a 196-173 video game joke. They might as well have each team put four of their players down at each offensive end, and then have one guy inbound a 60 foot pass for either an unguarded three, or a waltz down an empty lane for a dunk.

It's the same in the NFL, as well. Defenders can't touch receivers or quarterbacks. The running game has been replaced by QBs throwing 30+ dink passes a game. And everyone holds their breath on every single pass attempt waiting for a flag. I foresee the day when the entire offensive game plan will be nothing but 50 yard bombs. Either a reception, or a flag (or both.)

And I don't see any of this changing anytime soon...

[paksat]

I'll just say this

90s basketball is what we see on the courts when we play these days

crowded paint, physical defense when people do decide to actually get up for it

if bball out here was just 3s.. idk if i'd even play

[AirFederer]

https://media.giphy.com/media/aHnOjSIRfAz9m/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/26FPxFeuN8UA7nqGQ/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/lrf5jEbnpVUek/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQEfjOGYUtTzVXq/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/26BRvlrmiFHitjT7W/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0Gqg4qNtvgQNBqvK/giphy.gif

Fvck you Millennials

[AirFederer]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CqLVMWzaJUFPLW/giphy.gif

:pimp:

GOLDEN ERA

[Gimmedarock]

This is from a March 4 1990 LA Times story. I love 80's & 90's NBA but as the article shows, the game is always evolving. Love me some 90's Knicks but I also loved the Showtime Lakers.


"Scores in the 70s are popping up everywhere, teams are getting shut out for entire overtime periods and Dennis Rodman makes the All-Star Game averaging less than nine points.
What's going on here?
Defense is "in" in the NBA.
With the defense-minded Detroit Pistons making the NBA Finals twice and winning a title by holding teams under 100 points in 15 of 17 playoff games, the rest of the league has discovered that defense wins games and championships.
"The closer everybody gets to parity and teams feel like they have a shot at winning, theygre going to do whatever it takes to get over that hump," says Joe Dumars, a Piston sparkplug at both ends of the court. "They realize that playing defense gets you over that hump."
"In the early 80s, we knew we could outrun and outscore you," the Lakers' Magic Johnson said. "That's not the way we look at the game anymore."

"Teams have found out you can win with defense," Detroit Coach Chuck Daly said. "It gives teams with not as good offensive players a way to compete."
The Pistons are leading the league by giving up fewer than 98 points per game this season, but it's unmistakeable that defense has spread beyond the defending champions.
--Five years ago, no NBA team allowed fewer than 104 points per game. At midseason this year, 12 were giving up fewer than 104. Twelve teams gave up fewer than 110 points in 1985-86, 23 of 27 are allowing fewer than 110 this year.
--There were only three games in 1985-86 in which a team scored fewer than 80 points, with a low of 76. Halfway through this season, there already were 21 games in which a team scored under 80, with a low of 68.
--An average of 220.4 points were scored per game five years ago, nine more than this season.
--Only Denver has scored more than 90 points in every game this season.
The Pistons and Lakers, who met in the last two Finals, are making defense glamorous.
The first time they met this season, on Dec. 1 at the Forum, the Pistons held the Lakers scoreless in overtime of a 108-97 victory.
It was only the second shutout in NBA history since the 24-second shot clock rule started in 1954, although it happened again last week when Philadelphia beat Seattle 100-96 and the two teams combined to go 0-for-14 from the field in overtime.
In the Lakers-Pistons rematch at Auburn Hills, Los Angeles held Detroit to 44 points in the second half of a 107-97 victory.
"I was stunned by the way the Lakers took it to us in the second half," Daly said.
"Detroit has created a defensive mind-set around the league, and teams copy success," Laker Coach Pat Riley said. "In the early 80s, transition defense was non-existent. When a team was running, a coach would say 'Just get back.' Now there's sophistication to defense.
"Points scored and shooting percentages have dropped and it's not because of a decline in talent, it's a rise in defense."
Johnson said defense has changed dramatically in the 11 years since he came into the NBA.
"Detroit won because of defense and once somebody wins using a style, everyone wants to use that style," Johnson said. "You can't run free through the lane. The last couple of years, you find you'll be body-checked when you do that. Bodies are bigger now."

[Showtime80']

"Teams have found out you can win with defense," Detroit Coach Chuck Daly said. "It gives teams with not as good offensive players a way to compete."

That's basically the quote that defined the 90's right there!!! The league HAD TO BECOME DEFENSIVE MINDED because of over expansion diluting talent (6 teams between 1989 and 1996), the subpar drafts from 1986 to 1991 and explosion in salaries making it impossible for teams to have 4 to 5 offensive weapons in their lineups. The Bulls set the blueprint for the new 1/2 superstars surrounded by role players style of team building and soon the Knicks, Blazers, Sonics, Jazz, Spurs, Rockets and virtually every contending team in the 90's followed.

Like Mike Fratello use to say, who abused the Chuck Daly paradigm to devastatingly BORRING effects, "It looks better on paper to loose 96-88 than 120-100"

That's not elite defense, that's called playing SLOW DOWN BALL!!! Limiting possessions so the other better offensive team does not get as many chances. Back in the 80's when the salaries were not as high and free agency was not in vogue yet, most contending/playoff teams had 3 to 4 all-star caliber guys on their roster who could score 20+ night in night out so teams went blow for blow against each other without thinking too much of clock management. Maybe it was not the smartest thing to do specially against teams like the Showtime Lakers and Celtics but it produced the most exiting brand of basketball the league has EVER SEEN!!! The Pistons in 1987 averaged 111ppg and were 13th in the league in pace and just two years later with basically the same personnel averaged 107ppg while having the SLOWEST PACE IN THE NBA!!! They figured out that LIMITING POSSESSIONS and playing slower against the Lakers, Celtics and Bulls was the smartest way to go and increased their chances at winning.

Put the 90's Knicks, Sonics or Jazz against the 80's Lakers and Celtics and they still get their asse! handed to them but maybe the scores are lower and closer.

Right now the league has 30 teams with maybe 3 to 4 worth watching consistently, one and done fundamentally flawed players that take 3 to 4 years to start showing signs of maturity and development and lack luster coaching that feels the desire to nit pick every little detail virtually killing the flow and creativeness of the game.

The 80's had the greatest collection of stars ANY DECADE can put together, that's what made it the best. The present league just can't compete and thus has turned into the 3 point shooting EXHIBITION you see today. BORRING!!!

[MiseryCityTexas]

bunch of house nigggas in this thread, archaic my ass son, if you'd let these players today handcheck and manup without going dirty you'd see all these sissy 3p happy cuck teams get rolled. Fck rule enforced spacing, Fck hypocritical contact rules which kill bigs and glorify perimeter chuckers and fck the league for bastardizing the game to maximize their gains in the fagggot/hipster/soccer mom/corporate casual market. Fck them all tbh.

Jordan would absolutely cream this league as would lebron if they'd call every foul on him. Hypocritical rules killing the game, making mvps the like of harden :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Blake Griffin will be a much better player if he a had a back to the basket post up game, to go along with his face up game.