Make no mistake, the Cavs are still an absolute trash without LeBron

[Trollsmasher]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2017/on-off/

LeBron's on/off: +26.8
Kyrie: -22.7
Love: -21.9

This is a lottery team without him

GOAT impact:bowdown:

[scuzzy]

Good. God. :facepalm :lol

[CuhGetsBucks]

Damn

[toneloc103]

Thank you for your information....:rolleyes:

[Bankaii]

I don't think it's as bad as the stats indicate.
Outside of that absolutely horrid last game, Kyrie has been pretty freaking good and efficient. Love has been solid too.

They still clearly need Lebron to get out of the East, but these stats aren't accurate if you watch the games.

[CTbasketball92]

I don't think it's as bad as the stats indicate.
Outside of that absolutely horrid last game, Kyrie has been pretty freaking good and efficient. Love has been solid too.

They still clearly need Lebron to get out of the East, but these stats aren't accurate if you watch the games.

Yeah I think the one game screwed things up, and we'd need a bigger sample size .. maybe 23 games. In my opinion, they're still a top 4 Eastern Conference team with LeBron gone, they'd just need time to get used to playing without him.

Kyrie and Love have been good so far. Love is playing much better than he did last year by using the midrange/midpost so far, and once he fully finds his 3ball again, watch out. Kyrie looks like he could average about 25 4 and 4 this year on good efficiency, and he seems like he's trying on D. Love is definitely picking it up on the defensive end.

[egokiller]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2017/on-off/

LeBron's on/off: +26.8
Kyrie: -22.7
Love: -21.9

This is a lottery team without him

GOAT impact:bowdown:

Nope. Let's assume Lebron grew some balls and went to play in the west.

Lebron = $31 million

Cavs team with adjustments - Lebron + $31 million = ECF and most likely finals.

They would simply use that money for another star/s and form the team to compliment that replacement player/s strengths. To put it into perspective, AD is around $21 mil, Kawhi is around $18 mil. They could pick up a player like that and still have $10 mil to play with still putting them as the best team in the east. They have plenty of trading power also to make the new peices work. This isn't the 2007 Cavs roster.....they have the dealiest 24 year old finals performer in the league.

[Hey Yo]

Nope. Let's assume Lebron grew some balls and went to play in the west.

Lebron = $31 million

Cavs team with adjustments - Lebron + $31 million = ECF and most likely finals.

They would simply use that money for another star/s and form the team to compliment that replacement player/s strengths. To put it into perspective, AD is around $21 mil, Kawhi is around $18 mil. They could pick up a player like that and still have $10 mil to play with still putting them as the best team in the east. They have plenty of trading power also to make the new peices work. This isn't the 2007 Cavs roster.....they have the dealiest 24 year old finals performer in the league.
They couldn't get players like that when James was there.....why would they all of a sudden get talent like that w/o him?

There's a reason why no high end FA's have ever signed with Cleveland before James came back in 2014. Nobody wants to play there.

[Trollsmasher]

this is only going to get worse

[jbryan1984]

Oh please. Kyrie and Love are averaging 20 ppg with LeBron playing. Kyrie is a legitimate candidate for best point guard in the league at this point. He gets better literally every year. CP3 is probably still the best point guard overall on both ends. But guys like RB and Curry, Kyrie cannot be too far off if not even to both those guys, even to the blindest fan.

[Bankaii]

Nope. Let's assume Lebron grew some balls and went to play in the west.

Lebron = $31 million

Cavs team with adjustments - Lebron + $31 million = ECF and most likely finals.

They would simply use that money for another star/s and form the team to compliment that replacement player/s strengths. To put it into perspective, AD is around $21 mil, Kawhi is around $18 mil. They could pick up a player like that and still have $10 mil to play with still putting them as the best team in the east. They have plenty of trading power also to make the new peices work. This isn't the 2007 Cavs roster.....they have the dealiest 24 year old finals performer in the league.
There's a couple things here that you don't understand that makes you look really dumb.
1) I don't know how some of you still don't understand the salary cap increase with the new deal after it has been explained so many times.
Davis/Leonard are worth wayyyy more than their current contracts. If they tested FA, they'd be in the same ball park as Lebron. For instance AD's new extension is right at 30 mil if I remember correctly.
2) In the modern era, the Cavs have gotten one transcendent talent, Lebron, and he was drafted. The Cavs have NEVER had a major FA signing post MJ.
So now all of a sudden Kawhi would leave the Spurs or AD would go to shitty Cleveland? No. They'd sign a bunch of trash role players and not even make it out the East.

Seriously educate yourself before you speak on things you have no understanding of.

[Real14]

Mods?

[SouBeachTalents]

Mods?

This fakkit always cries to the mods even though he makes the most retarded threads on the forum

[Real14]

This fakkit always cries to the mods even though he makes the most retarded threads on the forum
Yall wade Stans who are also Bron Stans need to get off my dick already.

[Trollsmasher]

Oh please. Kyrie and Love are averaging 20 ppg with LeBron playing. Kyrie is a legitimate candidate for best point guard in the league at this point. He gets better literally every year. CP3 is probably still the best point guard overall on both ends. But guys like RB and Curry, Kyrie cannot be too far off if not even to both those guys, even to the blindest fan.
yeah, but as on/off shows those are mostly empty stats

[Hoopz2332]

Oh please. Kyrie and Love are averaging 20 ppg with LeBron playing. Kyrie is a legitimate candidate for best point guard in the league at this point. He gets better literally every year. CP3 is probably still the best point guard overall on both ends. But guys like RB and Curry, Kyrie cannot be too far off if not even to both those guys, even to the blindest fan.


The thing is kyrie doesn't make others better with his passing so if he's not scoring, it hurts the team.

[jrjim]

Cavs with a league average SF in place of Lebron is a lotto team, pretty clearly.

[egokiller]

There's a couple things here that you don't understand that makes you look really dumb.
1) I don't know how some of you still don't understand the salary cap increase with the new deal after it has been explained so many times.
Davis/Leonard are worth wayyyy more than their current contracts. If they tested FA, they'd be in the same ball park as Lebron. For instance AD's new extension is right at 30 mil if I remember correctly.
2) In the modern era, the Cavs have gotten one transcendent talent, Lebron, and he was drafted. The Cavs have NEVER had a major FA signing post MJ.
So now all of a sudden Kawhi would leave the Spurs or AD would go to shitty Cleveland? No. They'd sign a bunch of trash role players and not even make it out the East.

Seriously educate yourself before you speak on things you have no understanding of.

So you are basing your logic on the Cavs not being able to sign $31 million worth of talent on past signings? Think again. This team just won the chip. Losing lebron would mean that they would be one piece away from winning the chip. Do the math.

The levels that people will stoop to in a laughable attempt to embellish their favorite player are at an all time low. Threads like these only make Lebron fans look even more moronic. Typical throw lebron's teamates under the bus with small sample size data in an attempt to make him appear to be more than he really is. :facepalm

Back when MJ, Bird, and Magic played no one would even fathom of making a statement like "that team would be absolute trash if they didn't have their superstar!!" Why? Because people understood simple math. Lose one contending piece, rebuild with another. History tells you that it works. Losing Lebron and having $31 mil to play with wouldn't be that bad for Cleveland. The Indians just made it all the way to the world series and lost in the bottom of the 11th inning of a game 7. City of winners. Everyone wants to play there. This isn't 2014. And thinking that New Orleans is a better place to live than Cleveland?

[Bankaii]

So you are basing your logic on the Cavs not being able to sign $31 million worth of talent on past signings? Think again. This team just won the chip. Losing lebron would mean that they would be one piece away from winning the chip. Do the math.

The levels that people will stoop to in a laughable attempt to embellish their favorite player are at an all time low. Threads like these only make Lebron fans look even more moronic. Typical throw lebron's teamates under the bus with small sample size data in an attempt to make him appear to be more than he really is. :facepalm

Back when MJ, Bird, and Magic played no one would even fathom of making a statement like "that team would be absolute trash if they didn't have their superstar!!" Why? Because people understood simple math. Lose one contending piece, rebuild with another. History tells you that it works. Losing Lebron and having $31 mil to play with wouldn't be that bad for Cleveland. The Indians just made it all the way to the world series and lost in the bottom of the 11th inning of a game 7. City of winners. Everyone wants to play there. This isn't 2014. And thinking that New Orleans is a better place to live than Cleveland?
I presented facts, you presented... blush it's.
Cavs aren't ever getting a big name FA, winning a ring won't change that. If you think otherwise you're just an idiot.
If they lose Lebron they aren't replacing him with any top 10 player. They'd go back to being a mediocre city that barely makes it to the ECF.
Lebron haters are the biggest bunch of morons, no objective reasoning whatsoever.

[egokiller]

I presented facts, you presented... blush it's.
Cavs aren't ever getting a big name FA, winning a ring won't change that. If you think otherwise you're just an idiot.
If they lose Lebron they aren't replacing him with any top 10 player. They'd go back to being a mediocre city that barely makes it to the ECF.
Lebron haters are the biggest bunch of morons, no objective reasoning whatsoever.

Cavs make it to the ECF without having Lebron another top 10 player? Exactly. That's how good Lebron's surrounding talent is. I knew it was only a matter of time before you become an objective poster.

[RedBlackAttack]

You would think LeBron player-fans might be semi-grateful that Kyrie stepped up the way he did in the playoffs and especially The Finals, hit clutch shot after clutch shot, was basically the second best player in the entire playoffs, and sealed LeBron's third ring with an incredibly difficult step-back three-pointer when no one (including LeBron) could score for either team.

But no... here we are, right back to square one, as if the 2016 playoffs never happened.

"All these guys suck. Look at this statistics that proves it!"

F#ck off already... the lot of you.

[Prometheus]

tbh they would be better without him at all. no replacement, just start rj.

[red1]

You would think LeBron player-fans might be semi-grateful that Kyrie stepped up the way he did in the playoffs and especially The Finals, hit clutch shot after clutch shot, was basically the second best player in the entire playoffs, and sealed LeBron's third ring with an incredibly difficult step-back three-pointer when no one (including LeBron) could score for either team.

But no... here we are, right back to square one, as if the 2016 playoffs never happened.

"All these guys suck. Look at this statistics that proves it!"

F#ck off already... the lot of you.
:roll:

The deja vu is killing me.

This is the heat fan dilemma circa 2010-2014. On the one hand - your team is winning games left and right, a perennial contender and a force in the league.

And on the other hand...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GpkqmBtdWOU/hqdefault.jpg
http://ballerball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/miami-heat-fan.jpg
http://images1.browardpalmbeach.com/imager/ten-most-notorious-miami-heat-fans-from-s/u/original/6412055/justin_bieber_miami_heat.jpg



Yeah... Almost makes it a tough call.

[CTbasketball92]

You would think LeBron player-fans might be semi-grateful that Kyrie stepped up the way he did in the playoffs and especially The Finals, hit clutch shot after clutch shot, was basically the second best player in the entire playoffs, and sealed LeBron's third ring with an incredibly difficult step-back three-pointer when no one (including LeBron) could score for either team.

But no... here we are, right back to square one, as if the 2016 playoffs never happened.

"All these guys suck. Look at this statistics that proves it!"

F#ck off already... the lot of you.

I get what you're saying, but damn, this is supposed to be Kyrie's time. He's fully healthy. Coming off a carrer making postseason. Has LeBron running the offense so he can just score. He's at least trying on defense. And yet, it appears he might not be taking a leap. He doesn't get to the freethrow line enough to be a real dominant scorer IMO, and things just fall apart with him on the court when LeBron's not for some reason. Watching that 76ers game, it was like his bad game was worse than any other star's bad game over the last week. Still don't see a real ability to adequately run an offense, though it can be hard to tell if he ever even tries to considering that Lue wants him to attack as his first and second options when going down the court. But still, being a real superstar involves being able to kind of switch off between doing both. Love has looked great though, don't know what's up with his +/- stats. Small sample size, we'll have to check back in January or so for more answers.

[egokiller]

You would think LeBron player-fans might be semi-grateful that Kyrie stepped up the way he did in the playoffs and especially The Finals, hit clutch shot after clutch shot, was basically the second best player in the entire playoffs, and sealed LeBron's third ring with an incredibly difficult step-back three-pointer when no one (including LeBron) could score for either team.

But no... here we are, right back to square one, as if the 2016 playoffs never happened.

"All these guys suck. Look at this statistics that proves it!"

F#ck off already... the lot of you.

This is why lebronstans have no clue. Even when the guy wins, they make him out to be a loser by diminishing the other guys that helped him win.

The main differnece between MJ and Lebron is that MJ actually valued the effort of his teammates to an entirely different level, and ensured that all their hard work all post season long and in the finals would not go to waste. He basically said if you get me to the finals, I'll make sure we win. I won't even allow for the possiblity of a loss, won't even allow a game 7. The sample size is large enough to know that this is fact.

Now we compare that to lebron, and he's been helped to the finals 7 times and yet 4 of those times he let down the guys that helped get him there. Last year was different though. Kyrie wasn't about to allow lebron to let anyone down, and he inspired lebron with his excellent play. It was very visable during the series, and the play by play shows this. You see lebron looking sluggiesh and worried over a few bad plays/missed shots, and then kyrie would make an amazing play and propel lebron forward giving him the motivation that "Yes, we are here and we CAN do this." That type of mentallity was driven by young 24 year old Kyrie and anyone who didn't see this is a blind bron homer that refuses to believe the truth. Neither could have done it on their own but at least Kyrie belived that they could come back from being down 3-1 no matter how impossible bron thought it was. His impact on lebron's positive mental state was so much so that we for the first time saw a guy lead in all 5 categories in the finals. That's how big of a motivator Kyrie is. You can tell by the way he speaks, the way he answers questions, and the way he carries himself. He's just a born winner period.

[SouBeachTalents]

You would think LeBron player-fans might be semi-grateful that Kyrie stepped up the way he did in the playoffs and especially The Finals, hit clutch shot after clutch shot, was basically the second best player in the entire playoffs, and sealed LeBron's third ring with an incredibly difficult step-back three-pointer when no one (including LeBron) could score for either team.

But no... here we are, right back to square one, as if the 2016 playoffs never happened.

"All these guys suck. Look at this statistics that proves it!"

F#ck off already... the lot of you.

Sadly, Kyrie's only going to be used to either prop up LeBron or diminish him. That's the fate you get as a teammate of LeBron/Kobe/Jordan/Curry etc

[RedBlackAttack]

I get what you're saying, but damn, this is supposed to be Kyrie's time. He's fully healthy. Coming off a carrer making postseason. Has LeBron running the offense so he can just score. He's at least trying on defense. And yet, it appears he might not be taking a leap. He doesn't get to the freethrow line enough to be a real dominant scorer IMO, and things just fall apart with him on the court when LeBron's not for some reason. Watching that 76ers game, it was like his bad game was worse than any other star's bad game over the last week. Still don't see a real ability to adequately run an offense, though it can be hard to tell if he ever even tries to considering that Lue wants him to attack as his first and second options when going down the court. But still, being a real superstar involves being able to kind of switch off between doing both. Love has looked great though, don't know what's up with his +/- stats. Small sample size, we'll have to check back in January or so for more answers.
Anyone who believes +/- is the be-all, end-all evaluation of a player is a dipsh!t or someone with an agenda. Make no mistake, they'd find a stat. If it was PER that showed Kyrie to be useless, they'd use that. If it were OffRtg, they'd use that. Raw +/- and RPM are some of the noisiest statistics in basketball. They really should never be used to rate individual players, because they are largely dependent upon who is on the floor with you. So, for Kyrie, if he is asked to lead the bench unit in stretches against an opponent's starters while, say, Delly used to almost always come into games with LeBron against other team's benches... it was no surprise that the +/- statistic loved Delly and didn't love Kyrie. And, it had nothing to do with their values as players.

Kyrie isn't "making the leap"? He was averaging 26+ incredibly efficient points per game with much improved defense prior to his one-off, awful night against Philadelphia the other night. And, even in that game, he found a way to have a huge impact on the final score. He personally created turnovers on three consecutive possessions in the last minute of the game, one of which he threw away, which was obviously all the LBJ player-fans needed to wipe all of them clean.

"The leap" is in the process of being made. And, at the end, LeBron player-fans will find the statistics that shows how he really still sucks. It will happen completely regardless of his actual level of play.

Fact.

I thought maybe with him playing the way he did in the playoffs and The Finals might have been enough for them to give him a little credit. Nope. Not even hitting the game-winning three to cap-off thoroughly out-playing the two-time unanimous MVP was enough to stop this tide. It's the only thing we can absolutely count on every season. There will be 82 games, someone will be crowned champion in mid-June, and LeBron player-fans will sh!t all over every one of his teammates, especially the biggest name teammates.

[CTbasketball92]

Anyone who believes +/- is the be-all, end-all evaluation of a player is a dipsh!t or someone with an agenda. Make no mistake, they'd find a stat. If it was PER that showed Kyrie to be useless, they'd use that. If it were OffRtg, they'd use that. Raw +/- and RPM are some of the noisiest statistics in basketball. They really should never be used to rate individual players, because they are largely dependent upon who is on the floor with you. So, for Kyrie, if he is asked to lead the bench unit in stretches against an opponent's starters while, say, Delly used to almost always come into games with LeBron against other team's benches... it was no surprise that the +/- statistic loved Delly and didn't love Kyrie. And, it had nothing to do with their values as players.

Kyrie isn't "making the leap"? He was averaging 26+ incredibly efficient points per game with much improved defense prior to his one-off, awful night against Philadelphia the other night. And, even in that game, he found a way to have a huge impact on the final score. He personally created turnovers on three consecutive possessions in the last minute of the game, one of which he threw away, which was obviously all the LBJ player-fans needed to wipe all of them clean.

"The leap" is in the process of being made. And, at the end, LeBron player-fans will find the statistics that shows how he really still sucks. It will happen completely regardless of his actual level of play.

Fact.

I thought maybe with him playing the way he did in the playoffs and The Finals might have been enough for them to give him a little credit. Nope. Not even hitting the game-winning three to cap-off thoroughly out-playing the two-time unanimous MVP was enough to stop this tide. It's the only thing we can absolutely count on every season. There will be 82 games, someone will be crowned champion in mid-June, and LeBron player-fans will sh!t all over every one of his teammates, especially the biggest name teammates.

He's a beast and it's too early to say anything. Ultimately, he's only actually had one bad game -- and he did have some nice defensive plays, and an amazing offensive rebound over embiid. I'm just saying, if there's ever a year and a perfect circumstance to improve big time, this would be it. I think Kyrie is capable of being as good as anyone in a playoff matchup and when he's clicking on most cylinders, but his actual improvements need to come from feel for the game, defense and ability to get to the line. Defense has been good, but i think freethrows are the only thing keeping him from averaging 27 ppg one day.

[SamuraiSWISH]

They're very clearly a playoff team, particularly out East, sans LeBron. Kyrie at this point is like the 2nd or 3rd best player in the conference on a night to night basis. Only arguments for better is Derozen or PG13.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll:

The deja vu is killing me.

This is the heat fan dilemma circa 2010-2014. On the one hand - your team is winning games left and right, a perennial contender and a force in the league.

And on the other hand...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GpkqmBtdWOU/hqdefault.jpg
http://ballerball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/miami-heat-fan.jpg
http://images1.browardpalmbeach.com/imager/ten-most-notorious-miami-heat-fans-from-s/u/original/6412055/justin_bieber_miami_heat.jpg



Yeah... Almost makes it a tough call.

Tbh that Heat team was trash without Bron.. this Cavs team would make the playoffs though.

[moongaze]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2017/on-off/

LeBron's on/off: +26.8
Kyrie: -22.7
Love: -21.9

This is a lottery team without him

GOAT impact:bowdown:

+/- stat, really? You're using a team based stat to judge individual impact?:facepalm

You would think Bron fans would have more respect for Kyrie and love after the 2015 season. Guess we need a reminder of how lebron performs when those two aren't playing

[pedromarinho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMrdhJf2ScY

No Uncle no Ringooooo

[Dray n Klay]

What are the Cavs record without LeBron in the last 2 seasons? :confusedshrug:

[moongaze]

What are the Cavs record without LeBron in the last 2 seasons? :confusedshrug:

How many titles has lebron won in Cleveland in 8 season without love and Irving :confusedshrug:

[Dray n Klay]

How many titles has lebron won in Cleveland in 8 season without love and Irving :confusedshrug:


He went all the way to the Finals and was two games away from the championship without them.





Have either of them even sniffed the playoffs without LeBron? :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

LeSmall isn't living large like the dingo doe

[scuzzy]

How many titles has lebron won in Cleveland in 8 season without love and Irving :confusedshrug:



Kyrie and Love led teams - 13, YEP, 13 below .500 seasons, 0 playoffs, empty stats


Lebron (Cavalier 03-00 teams) - 1 Finals, 2 Conference Finals, 5 Semi Conf, only one season below .500 (Rookie)

[SamuraiSWISH]

Tbh that Heat team was trash without Bron.. this Cavs team would make the playoffs though.
Um they just almost got to the Conference Finals last spring, and that was with them missing their 3rd best player from the Miami Super Friends Era. Go back to German high school, snitch.

[Dray n Klay]

Um they just almost got to the Conference Finals last spring, and that was with them missing their 3rd best player from the Miami Super Friends Era. Go back to German high school, snitch.

With Goran Dragic and Whiteside, who weren't on the original Big 3 teams




We're forgetting they went from the Finals straight to the lottery the year LeBron left? :confusedshrug:











This isn't a Jordan situation where the team is only 2 games worse without him

[SamuraiSWISH]

With Goran Dragic and Whiteside, who weren't on the Bug 3 teams




We're forgetting they went from the Finals straight to the lottery the year LeBron left? :confusedshrug:











This isn't a Jordan situation where the team is only 2 games worse without him
Wait so the Bulls didn't get Kukoc, Kerr, Longely, Blount and Wennington as additions to the '93 roster?

Hmmm

:oldlol:

Pot meet kettle, you're both black. How's the koolaid taste from your dumb LeBron stan logic used for all those years.

Both teams finished 3rd in the east sans MJ / LeBron

[Dray n Klay]

Wait so the Bulls didn't get Kukoc, Kerr, Longely, Blount and Wennington as additions to the '93 roster?

Hmmm

:oldlol:




They replaced Jordan with Pete Myers, who was the worst starting SG in the league, and still won the same amount of games.






Are you seriously seriously comparing that to the Heat adding Deng, Whiteside, McRoberts, AND Dragic, and STILL missing the playoffs in the 2015???:roll:



Even after adding all those players the Heat still missed the playoffs






Just stop it coach, Jordan didn't have literally 1/10th the impact Bron did on the Heat/Cavs. :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

Summary: Jordan leaves
Bulls add Pete Myers, Kerr and Kukoc


They win 2 less games







LeBron leaves Heat
Heat add Dragic, Whiteside, Deng, Granger



Heat go from Finals straight to the lottery the next season





:roll: :roll:





Lmao this isn't even close

[SamuraiSWISH]

Meltdown Engage

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/chris-farley-bus-driver-gif-x450.gif

[moongaze]

He went all the way to the Finals and was two games away from the championship without them.





Have either of them even sniffed the playoffs without LeBron? :confusedshrug:

Nice way of dodging around the question. 0. 0 titles is how much he's won. So if Kyrie and love are so useless and lebron does everything, why has lebron never won a title in 8 years with Cleveland.

[moongaze]

Kyrie and Love led teams - 13, YEP, 13 below .500 seasons, 0 playoffs, empty stats


Lebron (Cavalier 03-00 teams) - 1 Finals, 2 Conference Finals, 5 Semi Conf, only one season below .500 (Rookie)

Right, so they just need to leave the cavs or get injured again because they are worthless? Why don't the cavs save the money and pay you and dray and Klay to take over their spots?

[Dray n Klay]

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/pete_myers_2012_04_06.jpg



This guy matched Jordan's impact on the Bulls :roll:

[Hoopz2332]

they are god awful when lebron sits

Kyrie Irving shoulders blame for several of Cavs' poor fourth quarters


But there was one from which they couldn't recover, and it's a problem that has actually stretched across many of Cleveland's seven games, including its six wins.

The Cavs have not been a very good fourth-quarter team this year, and it holds especially true for the starts of the final period when Irving is leading the second unit and LeBron James is on the bench.

And that's why Irving wants to chuck his remote, why he said he takes it personally "when that energy shifts."

He's making a case as a top 10 player in the NBA and is the Cavs' leading scorer, but he's got to be able to sustain the offense when James is on the bench.

On Tuesday, the Hawks' lead ballooned from five to 15 until James returned with 8:23 left. Irving missed three shots during that stretch -- even more deflating because the Cavs had rallied from 18 down early in the third to get back in the game.

"When I missed those first two, they get back and they go up 11 and just a shift in energy starts to change and then we bring back Bron," Irving said. "For me, I want to give him a little more rest or whenever he needs to come or (coach Tyronn) T. Lue feels like he needs to come in, I just want to be able to either get the lead back or making it within one or make the game even closer than it was. It's my job as one of the leaders."

As previously mentioned, that hasn't been the case.

In the four games in which the Cavs have opened the fourth quarter with James on the bench and Irving anchoring the second unit, they've been outscored by 21 points in 14:15. The Hawks did the most damage in the least amount of time, but the Celtics last week trimmed a 16-point deficit to seven in 4:38 with Irving on the court and James taking a break.

Last season, Lue used James as the anchor for the second unit, especially during the playoffs when the Cavs' best player and four reserves wreaked havoc. The Cavs also had Matthew Dellavedova then, a backup point guard they trusted. They don't have one of those this season.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/11/kyrie_irving_cavs_fourth_quart.html

[HurricaneKid]

Nope. Let's assume Lebron grew some balls and went to play in the west.

Lebron = $31 million

Cavs team with adjustments - Lebron + $31 million = ECF and most likely finals.

They would simply use that money for another star/s and form the team to compliment that replacement player/s strengths. To put it into perspective, AD is around $21 mil, Kawhi is around $18 mil. They could pick up a player like that and still have $10 mil to play with still putting them as the best team in the east. They have plenty of trading power also to make the new peices work. This isn't the 2007 Cavs roster.....they have the dealiest 24 year old finals performer in the league.

Do you pride yourself in your idiocy? Do you admit to yourself you are a troll or are you actually this stupid?

Do you believe that AD and Kawhi even EXIST in FA? Much less for what they signed their max deals for years ago?

The Cavs, without LeBron's 31M would be over the cap and would not have ANY money to spend on ANY free agent.

We know have 2 full seasons and 8 games this season to see what that team looks like with and without LeBron.

2014-15 -
-6.0/100 possessions with LeBron OUT
+10.8/100 IN
NET RATING of 16.8

2015-16
-4.8/100 possessions with LeBron OUT
+11.7/100 with LeBron IN
NET RATING of 16.5

2016-17
-11.0/100 poss with LeBron OUT
+15.8 with LeBron IN
NET RATING of 26.8
** VERY LIMITED SAMPLE SIZE

[SamuraiSWISH]

If Miami with their aged, and injured fellow super friends weren't dirty water trash. Then neither would this Cleveland team be, given their talent is all relatively healthy and in their primes.

[LakersForlife]

lebron is ****in trash without hof teammates..

[Dray n Klay]

lebron is ****in trash without hof teammates..

He won last year with 0 all-star teammates :confusedshrug:

[KirbyPls]

lebron is ****in trash without hof teammates..

At least he could win a playoff series unlike 12be.

[SouBeachTalents]

lebron is ****in trash without hof teammates..

And Kobe's trash even with several HOF teammates

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/13/2b/89/132b898b6c0fa085986a2ffe1026bec6.jpg

[aj1987]

Nope. Let's assume Lebron grew some balls and went to play in the west.

Lebron = $31 million

Cavs team with adjustments - Lebron + $31 million = ECF and most likely finals.

They would simply use that money for another star/s and form the team to compliment that replacement player/s strengths. To put it into perspective, AD is around $21 mil, Kawhi is around $18 mil. They could pick up a player like that and still have $10 mil to play with still putting them as the best team in the east. They have plenty of trading power also to make the new peices work. This isn't the 2007 Cavs roster.....they have the dealiest 24 year old finals performer in the league.
This pretty much confirms why you are a broke **** pretending to be from Cleveland and making 6 figures, and not one actuating one making that kinda money.

[Replay32]

It's sad but true. They haven't proven they can win without him.