Kobe's Legacy: Cancer

[KiiiiNG]

As we watch the Lakers without Kobe, one thing is evident: They're a much happier team, and play much better overall. No surprise to basketball experts like myself and many others on this site (ISB, Fudge, DnK, scuzzy just to name a few).... as we forecasted this would happen long long ago.

More so than anything, I will remember Kobe for being a cancer. To me, the way he sabotaged the early 2000's Lakers from potentially being the greatest dynasty in sports history is much more memorable than all the championships he won. The end to his career was a very good reflection on Kobe's career. Selfish, delusional, anti-social... the list goes on and on

Kobe won't be remembered for being a winner, he'll be remembered for being a cancer. That is especially hard to type because Kobe is my 2nd favorite player ever (only second to MJ), but I kinda feel he doesn't have the same appeal or respect as other all-time greats after their career ended. Kobe's gone and people either don't give a shit or they say how much of a cancer kobe was.

Can't imagine LeBron will get the same treatment. Actually it will be the exact opposite because Cleveland will go right back to the gutter without LeBron. LeBron will be remembered as the ultimate winner with the most ultimate impact. THE GOAAAAAAAAATTTTTT

[avonbarksdale]

he has 5 rings lol

[Young X]

he has 5 rings lol

[JohnMax]

Cancers don't win 5 rings

[Doranku]

OP's Legacy:

[tamaraw08]

rent free

[SwayDizzle]

he has 5 rangzzzz

[SpaceJam]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/7e706d66ff034b6c8fc6d457e8ea6633/tumblr_nh9qqtICYD1rqkpceo2_500.gif

[knicksman]

op is dumb

5 rings

[Mr. Jabbar]

As we watch the Lakers without Kobe, one thing is evident: They're a much happier team, and play much better overall. No surprise to basketball experts like myself and many others on this site (ISB, Fudge, DnK, scuzzy just to name a few).... as we forecasted this would happen long long ago.

More so than anything, I will remember Kobe for being a cancer. To me, the way he sabotaged the early 2000's Lakers from potentially being the greatest dynasty in sports history is much more memorable than all the championships he won. The end to his career was a very good reflection on Kobe's career. Selfish, delusional, anti-social... the list goes on and on

Kobe won't be remembered for being a winner, he'll be remembered for being a cancer. That is especially hard to type because Kobe is my 2nd favorite player ever (only second to MJ), but I kinda feel he doesn't have the same appeal or respect as other all-time greats after their career ended. Kobe's gone and people either don't give a shit or they say how much of a cancer kobe was.

Can't imagine LeBron will get the same treatment. Actually it will be the exact opposite because Cleveland will go right back to the gutter without LeBron. LeBron will be remembered as the ultimate winner with the most ultimate impact. THE GOAAAAAAAAATTTTTT

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/guns/images/a/a0/Fire_Control_Group_Animation.gif

[Devin Booker]

OP showing his true lack of knowledge by not giving Luke Walton any credit.

If a cancer wins me championships (5 to be exact) then he must be doing something right.

[Dray n Klay]

I agree 100%, thank you for making this thread OP.




I think we've seen this coming from a while away to be honest. Kobe has never had a positive impact on a team. We saw this before when Kobe RAN Shaq out of L.A and then immediately sent the Lakers into the lottery ie. team-killing cancer



Then Kobe tries to collude with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash to stack the odds in his favour. Think about this.... Kobe had the best point guard, power forward, and center in the LEAGUE, and still basically missed the playoffs :roll: :roll:



So Kobe took a team that on paper should've been as good as the '96 Bulls, and sent them straight down the toilet :oldlol:




And then how does Kobe end his career??



By being the human equivalent of cancer. Leading teams that wouldve won 45 games without him to only win 17-20 games. Shooting 35% from the field and hogging the ball while destroying the team chemistry with his cancer attitude.



So overall there's nothing really positive to say about Kobe's career. In fact, now that I think about it I can't put him in the Top 12-13 (As ESPN did). Dude was basically a media creation, his legacy never existed (not that he really had one), so he's Top 20 at best.


At the end of the day I'm glad its over and so is most of Laker Nation, deep down they all know how bad Kobe is to a basketball team, and are happy to see this NEW Lakers team :banana:

[Sportal]

Uh... Kobe was lucky enough to be a part of a team that bagged Shaq. What was the reason Shaq left again? What did Kobe do between then? Yeah, he got Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum developed, Odom was a great player. But did Kobe lure any players that he should have, considering how much of a "prized" destination Los Angeles, and the Lakers were suggested to be? He, and Lakers fans drove the only regular all-star out of town that they had got since Shaq.

Kobe was not good for business. Not like what Nowitzki, Wade, and other stars had done for their clubs around the league. In his latter years, he never really enabled the Lakers to become better off. If the guy didn't get the contract he wanted, he would have walked away from the Lakers too. How many of you Lakers fans here actually remember when he wanted to be traded because his team was terrible. If he didn't win anymore titles since Shaq, he'd literally be looked at the same as Melo.

Is it 3 final's appearances in 12 years since Shaq left? And 2 titles. 1 MVP, 2 FMVP. Feel free to correct me, I'm just thinking off the top of my head.

[warriorfan]

Kiiing is slowly realizing that he has no free will

Every move he makes is a direct result from a triggering from the one and only trigger man, mr jabbar

Some day he might break free from his chains

It's doubtful though

[Sportal]

Then Kobe tries to collude with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash to stack the odds in his favour. Think about this.... Kobe had the best point guard, power forward, and center in the LEAGUE, and still basically missed the playoffs :roll: :roll:


You don't have to be a complete biased idiot about things, right?

When did Kobe have Chris Paul..?

[SpaceJam]

Uh... Kobe was lucky enough to be a part of a team that bagged Shaq. What was the reason Shaq left again? What did Kobe do between then? Yeah, he got Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum developed, Odom was a great player. But did Kobe lure any players that he should have, considering how much of a "prized" destination Los Angeles, and the Lakers were suggested to be? He, and Lakers fans drove the only regular all-star out of town that they had got since Shaq.

Kobe was not good for business. Not like what Nowitzki, Wade, and other stars had done for their clubs around the league. In his latter years, he never really enabled the Lakers to become better off. If the guy didn't get the contract he wanted, he would have walked away from the Lakers too. How many of you Lakers fans here actually remember when he wanted to be traded because his team was terrible. If he didn't win anymore titles since Shaq, he'd literally be looked at the same as Melo.

Is it 3 final's appearances in 12 years since Shaq left? And 2 titles. 1 MVP, 2 FMVP. Feel free to correct me, I'm just thinking off the top of my head.

That's stupid. Kobe wasn't good for business?! He led them to 2 rings after Shaq....But Dirk and Wade are better for business? :wtf:

[Sportal]

That's stupid. Kobe wasn't good for business?! He led them to 2 rings after Shaq....But Dirk and Wade are better for business? :wtf:

Did Kobe ever take a drop in wages to enable the team to be able to restructure? And clearly he wasn't, which players did he lure to the promised land of Los Angeles? Roy Hibbert? Steve Nash?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Every move he makes is a direct result from a triggering from the one and only trigger man, mr jabbar

:pimp: :pimp: :pimp: :pimp:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/j4enh.r2en5/v/vspfiles/photos/Geissele%20SSA%20Trigger%20SPin-2.jpg

[SpaceJam]

Did Kobe ever take a drop in wages to enable the team to be able to restructure?

So because Wade/Dirk did and ended up leading the team to less rings than Kobe, they're automatically better for business?

Far as I see it, goal of the business is to win a championship, Kobe gave LA that twice as the man. He's better for business

[Da Real Lambo]

Jabbar certainly has his ways to trigger the op :lol

I love the duo he makes with the playboy, sick alphas

#respect

[gigantes]

he has five rings...

three from a team that shaq led. two from a team that he himself led, with lots of help.

both jordan's, lebron's, and several other players' accomplishments leading teams are greater, not to mention their stats and efficiency are greater.

[Devin Booker]

he has five rings...

three from a team that shaq led. two from a team that he himself led, with lots of help.

both jordan's, lebron's, and several other players' accomplishments leading teams are greater, not to mention their stats and efficiency are greater.

Why does the help thing only apply to this argument? Eveyone needs help to win.

[Sportal]

So because Wade/Dirk did and ended up leading the team to less rings than Kobe, they're automatically better for business?

Far as I see it, goal of the business is to win a championship, Kobe gave LA that twice as the man. He's better for business

And a franchise like the Los Angeles Lakers will be irrelevant for a decade because of his contracts and attitude. Yeah, real good for business.

[gigantes]

Why does the help thing only apply to this argument? Eveyone needs help to win.
because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

[34-24 Footwork]

And a franchise like the Los Angeles Lakers will be irrelevant for a decade because of his contracts and attitude. Yeah, real good for business.

Lmao. Not irrelevant enough for you to keep talking about them.

You couldn't afford a large popcorn at a Lakers game...let alone a nosebleed seat. Fans asses have still made their way to seats. The organization ain't starving for relevancy.

You don't like Kobe? Cool. Keep bangin. But don't be a retard.

[34-24 Footwork]

because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

Shaq barely needed Kobe but only started winning championships when Kobe got the starting position? The mental gymnastics are real.

[SpaceJam]

And a franchise like the Los Angeles Lakers will be irrelevant for a decade because of his contracts and attitude. Yeah, real good for business.

Yeah okay because the Lakers have a problem with irrelevancy :roll:

In fact you can argue that Kobe is the reason they are so well known these days

Don't give me that bullsh^t Dirk and Wade are better for business

[BigKAT]

Shaq barely needed Kobe but only started winning championships when Kobe got the starting position? The mental gymnastics are real.

I think we can all agree tha Shaq needed Kobe and Kobe Needed Shaq.

Same way Jordan needed Pippen.

Just because one is the defined 'Sidekick' does not mean he is not essential. Heck, he's probably the 2nd most important team on most nights, and 1st on some.
Nobody wins alone.

[34-24 Footwork]

" Kobe took more money than he needed. That's why he won 5 rings and the Lakers are the most well known sports team in the world."

"Wade and Dirk took less money and loss more, that's why the Miami Heat and Dallas mavericks are relevant".

Losing = good for business.
Winning=bad for business.


:applause:

[Sportal]

Lmao. Not irrelevant enough for you to keep talking about them.

You couldn't afford a large popcorn at a Lakers game...let alone a nosebleed seat. Fans asses have still made their way to seats. The organization ain't starving for relevancy.

You don't like Kobe? Cool. Keep bangin. But don't be a retard.

Asses are on seats, because it's the Los Angeles Lakers. Do you honestly feel you'd have the same following of this team if it was somewhere else? Lol.

Relevancy is in relation to HOW will they affect the NBA. A couple of highlight reels, some nice stat-lines and a few upsets here and there.. So what? Does not equal being relevant when it comes to playoffs and titles. Which is all you lot are worried about these days.

[34-24 Footwork]

I think we can all agree tha Shaq needed Kobe and Kobe Needed Shaq.

Same way Jordan needed Pippen.

Just because one is the defined 'Sidekick' does not mean he is not essential. Heck, he's probably the 2nd most important team on most nights, and 1st on some.
Nobody wins alone.

No basketball players defined Kobe as a sidekick. Only people on the Internet and a few "analysts".

But good post, orherwise.

[Sportal]

" Kobe took more money than he needed. That's why he won 5 rings and the Lakers are the most well known sports team in the world."

"Wade and Dirk took less money and loss more, that's why the Miami Heat and Dallas mavericks are relevant".

Losing = good for business.
Winning=bad for business.


:applause:

So now you're just linking posts together which I never suggested. Can you kids even ****ing read properly?

[34-24 Footwork]

Asses are on seats, because it's the Los Angeles Lakers. Do you honestly feel you'd have the same following of this team if it was somewhere else? Lol.

Relevancy is in relation to HOW will they affect the NBA. A couple of highlight reels, some nice stat-lines and a few upsets here and there.. So what? Does not equal being relevant when it comes to playoffs and titles. Which is all you lot are worried about these days.

Explain why you think it's Kobe's fault if the team RIGHT NOW doesnt make it to the playoffs.

This should be good.

6 degrees of Kobe Bryant.

[SpaceJam]

So now you're just linking posts together which I never suggested. Can you kids even ****ing read properly?

Let's revisit your original statement then

'Kobe was not good for business. Not like what Nowitzki, Wade, and other stars had done for their clubs around the league.'

What have Dirk and Wade done for their clubs that Kobe hasn't?

Kobe's won LA 2 rings as the guy, that's best for business

And you can't even talk about Kobe's left the team in sh^t because I'd much rather have LA's potential right now than that garbage in Miami, and that mediocre in Dallas

[Rooster]

Uh... Kobe was lucky enough to be a part of a team that bagged Shaq. What was the reason Shaq left again? What did Kobe do between then? Yeah, he got Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum developed, Odom was a great player. But did Kobe lure any players that he should have, considering how much of a "prized" destination Los Angeles, and the Lakers were suggested to be? He, and Lakers fans drove the only regular all-star out of town that they had got since Shaq.

Kobe was not good for business. Not like what Nowitzki, Wade, and other stars had done for their clubs around the league. In his latter years, he never really enabled the Lakers to become better off. If the guy didn't get the contract he wanted, he would have walked away from the Lakers too. How many of you Lakers fans here actually remember when he wanted to be traded because his team was terrible. If he didn't win anymore titles since Shaq, he'd literally be looked at the same as Melo.

Is it 3 final's appearances in 12 years since Shaq left? And 2 titles. 1 MVP, 2 FMVP. Feel free to correct me, I'm just thinking off the top of my head.

None of those aforementioned guys did have better career without Kobe. :no:

[34-24 Footwork]

I think we should all just stop counting pockets/contracts without knowing context.

With how many people showed up to EVERY GAME just to see KOBE BRYANT from 2005-2016...one could argue that the Lakers STILL owe him loot.

I won't even go into TV revenue. I'll lose you.

[gigantes]

Shaq barely needed Kobe but only started winning championships when Kobe got the starting position? The mental gymnastics are real.
definitely real, since you neglected to mention that the team didn't live up to its potential until phil jackson came along.

[Rooster]

because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

Shaq have the all star version of Eddie Jones and Van Exel and still could not win it. :confusedshrug:

[Rooster]

definitely real, since you neglected to mention that the team didn't live up to its potential until phil jackson came along.

And so were the Jordan Bulls:rolleyes:

[34-24 Footwork]

definitely real, since you neglected to mention that the team didn't live up to its potential until phil jackson came along.

Lmao. Gotcha. Coaches are super impactful when it comes to Kobe. You should conduct a census.

See how many players would rather have 2000-2004 Kobe Bryant or 2000-2004 Phil Jackson.

This should support your theory. Do the same thing Lebron and Erik Spolstra while you're at.

[knicksman]

Just deal with it bran stans. No matter how many rings your boy wins, alphas wouldnt recognize his cheap rings. Only cheap ass beta do.

[Dray n Klay]

34-24 is a Kyrie stan, so his opinion is automaticaly invalid

[knicksman]

he has five rings...

three from a team that shaq led. two from a team that he himself led, with lots of help.

both jordan's, lebron's, and several other players' accomplishments leading teams are greater, not to mention their stats and efficiency are greater.

lebron had the greatest help thats why only losers respect him.

[BigKAT]

34-24 is a Kyrie stan, so his opinion is automaticaly invalid

Lol, by that mantra 80% of the posters here shouldn't bother posting.

I'm biased when it comes to the Wolves.
You're biased when it comes to Lebron.
He's biased when it comes to Kyrie.

Sure, there are 'degrees' of stanning,
Like, I'm going to defend Ricky's value to the death, but I won't dellusion myself into thinking he is a Top 5 PG in the league. (Definetly top 10.)

Same with KAT. I think he's the best prospect we had, and I'm super hyped about the guy, but I won't say he's 11th best in the league yet (Wtf ESPN#rankings)

He'll be Top 5 in a few years. Maybe as soon as two years.
And he's the franchise piece we need.
And Wiggins and Lavine make me freaking giddy whenever there's a fastbreak.

so yeah.
Everyone here is a 'Stan' on someone, team or indvidual.
Just gotta contain yourself to reasonble levels, y'know?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Kobe is a 12th player of all time, I wont be worrying about his legacy if my favorite player is clearly top 10.

[knicksman]

because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

if you know how to build a team, kobe is the player. If not then lebron. Kobe has less impact but he can fit with other stars while lebron has higher impact but he cant fit. Thats why the only way to win with lebron is through stacking and hope that refs would help too.

[Sportal]

Explain why you think it's Kobe's fault if the team RIGHT NOW doesnt make it to the playoffs.

This should be good.

6 degrees of Kobe Bryant.

You realise that it is 2016, right? The Lakers' biggest achievement since 2012 is beat the Denver Nuggets in 7 games... Bravo? Literally, THE best thing that has happened to the Lakers since 2012 is Kobe getting injured. Do you feel you get either:

A) The roster you have currently;

or

B) Another title with the team the Lakers had brought together?

Had he been healthy? No. Not even close.

So your idle, who, unlike Wade/Nowitzki/etc in their twilight years, was the highest paid player in the league, for what purpose? Was he the best player? Was his team the best team in the league? No, to both. But instead of enabling his team to be able to build and challenge, via acquiring players to get them to the playoffs with a cut to his pay. But instead, he sat on the highest pay per year. Is it hard for you to comprehend that he has hugely contributed to why the Lakers won't be challenging for titles for years?



Let's revisit your original statement then

'Kobe was not good for business. Not like what Nowitzki, Wade, and other stars had done for their clubs around the league.'

What have Dirk and Wade done for their clubs that Kobe hasn't?

Kobe's won LA 2 rings as the guy, that's best for business

And you can't even talk about Kobe's left the team in sh^t because I'd much rather have LA's potential right now than that garbage in Miami, and that mediocre in Dallas

As I mentioned above, the best thing that happened to the Lakers since 2012, is Kobe getting injured. They wouldn't have the team they have right now, without it. Which also goes towards the whole "Kobe wasn't good for business". Can I ask you, do you think the Lakers would be a lot better this season, if they had last season without Kobe? Because I do. Yet another thing that I would push towards my agenda here.

As for the last part of your post, no Miami isn't great, and Dallas have Cuban, the dude broke up a championship winning team, and haven't done anything since. But when Wade took this loss in wages, what did Miami do? 4 Finals, 2 titles? I mean, I don't want to point out facts here... But that's more valuable shit than Kobe did from 2005 - 2016... But you want to talk about what is good for business? I would say what Wade did. Tbh. Wade was an enabler, Kobe? Not so much.


None of those aforementioned guys did have better career without Kobe. :no:

Did I say they did? Nope. Don't see where..?

[gigantes]

Lmao. Gotcha. Coaches are super impactful when it comes to Kobe. You should conduct a census.

See how many players would rather have 2000-2004 Kobe Bryant or 2000-2004 Phil Jackson.

This should support your theory. Do the same thing Lebron and Erik Spolstra while you're at.
now you're just being silly. a coach and a player situation is not either/or. a realistic question would be wade vs. kobe, or jackson vs. riley, something like that.

wade probably wins that pretty easily, whereas PJ and riley would probably be closer, considering that most players probably aren't crazy about the triangle.

also, what i said in my original post you quoted.


@the genius who posted after you,
lebron has never been on a particularly well-constructed team. both "super teams" he maneuvered to had redundancies and problems of his own creation as a player-GM.

for an example of just how far he's capable of pulling a team, see his first team with CLE that went to the finals, around 2007 or so... an absolutely dreadful finals team.

an example of three guys fitting together nice and smoothly and being very productive would be more like garnett, pierce, allen in boston.

anyway, i'm out. you chuckleheads can argue it all night if you want.

[SpaceJam]

As I mentioned above, the best thing that happened to the Lakers since 2012, is Kobe getting injured. They wouldn't have the team they have right now, without it. Which also goes towards the whole "Kobe wasn't good for business". Can I ask you, do you think the Lakers would be a lot better this season, if they had last season without Kobe? Because I do. Yet another thing that I would push towards my agenda here.

As for the last part of your post, no Miami isn't great, and Dallas have Cuban, the dude broke up a championship winning team, and haven't done anything since. But when Wade took this loss in wages, what did Miami do? 4 Finals, 2 titles? I mean, I don't want to point out facts here... But that's more valuable shit than Kobe did from 2004 - 2016... But you want to talk about what is good for business? I would say what Wade did. Tbh. Wade was an enabler, Kobe? Not so much.


You can play what ifs all you like, the fact of the matter is they have the team right now, it's a better team than Miami and Dallas going forward and Kobe had very little, if any negative impact on the rebuild, I'd even put last seasons sh^tshow on Byron Scott before I'd put it on Kobe. So to answer your question, no they probably wouldn't be better, if so it only be a little bit, Scott had THAT much of a negative impact on that team last year

More valuable? They won the same amount of championships...and you've completely dropped Dirk from the argument now? What did Dallas do when he took pay cuts

[Devin Booker]

because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

This is such a horrible post, why do you bring up LeBron when he didn't win shit until he teamed up with Wade and Bosh? If what you say is true he wouldn't have needed them to win a chip. He could have done it with a 3&D role player and a solid all-star level PF right?

Don't try an diminish one of the greats just because you don't appreciate him the way others do. If winning was that simple we would have seen more players become champions.

[Rooster]

[QUOTE=Sportal


Did I say they did? Nope. Don't see where..?[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point. You never gave credit to Kobe in making them champs yet you gave every single of them credit in making Kobe a champ .

So what gives? :confusedshrug: Kobe was the common denominator.:rolleyes:

[Sportal]

You can play what ifs all you like, the fact of the matter is they have the team right now, it's a better team than Miami and Dallas going forward and Kobe had very little, if any negative impact on the rebuild, I'd even put last seasons sh^tshow on Byron Scott before I'd put it on Kobe. So to answer your question, no they probably wouldn't be better, if so it only be a little bit, Scott had THAT much of a negative impact on that team last year

More valuable? They won the same amount of championships...and you've completely dropped Dirk from the argument now? What did Dallas do when he took pay cuts

So in the first part you show how delusional you are, but that is absolutely fine, we will move on. There is literally zero point.

Also, Dirk was an enabler too. Is it his fault that Cuban let certain players go, or just couldn't get the players they were after? They won a title with him being all about the team. At least he tried ffs.

[Sportal]

Exactly my point. You never gave credit to Kobe in making them champs yet you gave every single of them credit in making Kobe a champ .

So what gives? :confusedshrug: Kobe was the common denominator.:rolleyes:

It's hard to understand what you are even after?

Phil Jackson was the common denominator though.

[SpaceJam]

So in the first part you show how delusional you are, but that is absolutely fine, we will move on. There is literally zero point.

Also, Dirk was an enabler too. Is it his fault that Cuban let certain players go, or just couldn't get the players they were after? They won a title with him being all about the team. At least he tried ffs.

I'm delusional? Keep talking hypotheticals :oldlol:

And Kobe won two, but Dirk was better for business okay okay :oldlol:

And if you're talking AFTER Dirk's ring, why is it that he's top 5 in highest paid NBA players from 2011-2014, also 2 years as the 2nd highest paid. I mean I could be wrong but it's on ESPN. Quite enabling indeed

[Rooster]

It's hard to understand what you are even after?

Phil Jackson was the common denominator though.

So are you going to discredit Jordan too?

Because Phil deserve all the credit.

If you never followed the Lakers at all then you can't possibly understand how the champion was made. The Lakers core were constructed by Jerry West and he hired Phil. So Jerry West deserved all the credit in the world.

[Rooster]

I'm delusional? Keep talking hypotheticals :oldlol:

And Kobe won two, but Dirk was better for business okay okay :oldlol:

And if you're talking AFTER Dirk's ring, why is it that he's top 5 in highest paid NBA players from 2011-2014, also 2 years as the 2nd highest paid. I mean I could be wrong but it's on ESPN. Quite enabling indeed

The end will always justify the means. Kobe retired with 5 rings. I bleed purple and gold and if you tell me that DRuss will win 5 rings in a Lakers uniform, I'll take that in a heartbeat regardless of what happen in the tail end of his career.

[julizaver]

More so than anything, I will remember Kobe for being a cancer. To me, the way he sabotaged the early 2000's Lakers from potentially being the greatest dynasty in sports history is much more memorable than all the championships he won. The end to his career was a very good reflection on Kobe's career. Selfish, delusional, anti-social... the list goes on and on

Sadly, but true - Kobe's ego was huge even at 22-23, Shaq was the go to guy and was dominating the league, but Kobe wanted desperately to be the main man, to be like ... Mike. He fired shots at Shaq for been overweight and not in shape, but in reality even a fat Shaq at 30 was the best offensive weapon in the league. And he had somehow got in shape as the season progress, just Kobe doesn't want play a second fiddle. Had Shaq stayed with the Lakers they would have 1 or 2 rings more both - and had Kobe played at least some teamball and up to his standards they would have beat Pistons in 2004 Finals. For which Kobe was badly exposed by Jackson in his book.



Can't imagine LeBron will get the same treatment. Actually it will be the exact opposite because Cleveland will go right back to the gutter without LeBron. LeBron will be remembered as the ultimate winner with the most ultimate impact. THE GOAAAAAAAAATTTTTT

I always regarded Lebron higher as a basketball player than Kobe - he do more on the floor, had greater impact and even got better stats. Not a knock on Kobe, who was very dedicated player and trained hard to achive (we all know that), he is just not Lebron type of player. Kobe has more refined offensive game, probably is more skillful, but 5 on 5 he is inferior to James. Had Lebron quit know the Cavs will be borderline playoff team at best.

About Lebron's legacy - what hurted it most is the 2011 loss to Mavs, than the Decision. He got his relevation this year in the Finals and deleted that loser label forever in my mind. But he fall just short in comparision to Jordan, who is the most regarded player as GOAT ever. Jordan's was dominating games with his scoring and his Finals record is insane (I hate this word).

[coin24]

Wow this loser is still on here replying to his own threads about Kobe non stop?:lol :facepalm

OPs legacy: forever virgin

[ArbitraryWater]

So because Wade/Dirk did and ended up leading the team to less rings than Kobe, they're automatically better for business?

Far as I see it, goal of the business is to win a championship, Kobe gave LA that twice as the man. He's better for business

so broad :oldlol:

Dirk would have won more had he actually had competent help


because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO. if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players. kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

basically this

Kobe would have never suceeded with another wing player next to him... needed the maximum of size, rim protection, rebounds, bailing out his misses. Pretty sad.

[ArbitraryWater]

if you know how to build a team, kobe is the player. If not then lebron. Kobe has less impact but he can fit with other stars while lebron has higher impact but he cant fit. Thats why the only way to win with lebron is through stacking and hope that refs would help too.

this doesnt even make sense...

so LeBron has higher impact but is worse?
LeBron isn't as good with stars as Kobe but needs stacking, aka stars?

[ArbitraryWater]

Jordan's was dominating games with his scoring and his Finals record is insane (I hate this word).

insane?

[SpaceJam]

so broad :oldlol:

Dirk would have won more had he actually had competent help
.

Not saying he wouldn't have, but let's not act like he had LeBron pre Miami type help, he's made a couple finals, he's had a top 5 all time PG in Nash, Finley was also no slouch in the Dallas days etc

He did what he could with what he had, Kobe just won more rings, so he's been best for business to the respective teams

[Mr Feeny]

Not saying he wouldn't have, but let's not act like he had LeBron pre Miami type help, he's made a couple finals, he's had a top 5 all time PG in Nash, Finley was also no slouch in the Dallas days etc

He did what he could with what he had, Kobe just won more rings, so he's been best for business to the respective teams

Not really. You could make the argument that any other top star including Dirk would have won a lot more than just 3 in eight seasons with prime Shaq.

[SpaceJam]

Not really. You could make the argument that any other top star including Dirk would have won a lot more than just 3 in eight seasons with prime Shaq.

I'm talking post Shaq, you know, how Kobe still won more as the man than Dirk/Wade

[Mr Feeny]

I'm talking post Shaq, you know, how Kobe still won more as the man than Dirk/Wade

It's easy to do that when you have the best front court in the league including an absolutely beast in Gasol who had a higher PER as ws than you do:lol

Meanwhile, Wade had Beasily.

[egokiller]

You don't have to be a complete biased idiot about things, right?

When did Kobe have Chris Paul..?

Kobe was told that he can't play with Chris Paul because kobe was too good and it would be too stacked.

[SpaceJam]

It's easy to do that when you have the best front court in the league including an absolutely beast in Gasol who had a higher PER as ws than you do:lol

Meanwhile, Wade had Beasily.

Agreed Bynum's 6/4 and 7/5 in the back to back finals was outta this world type production :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Agreed Bynum's 6/4 and 7/5 in the back to back finals was outta this world type production :applause:

Agree that Gasol was leading Kobe in PER/ ws :lebronamazed:
And that Kobe was shooting 30% and 31% respectively in 4th quarters of the finals of both rings:applause:

[SpaceJam]

Agree that Gasol was leading Kobe in PER/ ws :lebronamazed:
And that Kobe was shooting 30% and 31% respectively in 4th quarters of the finals of both rings:applause:

Sure whatever, but let's ignore the fact a member of the 'best front court in the league' put up 6/4 and 7/5

[Doranku]

Agree that Gasol was leading Kobe in PER/ ws :lebronamazed:
And that Kobe was shooting 30% and 31% respectively in 4th quarters of the finals of both rings:applause:

Kobe led in playoff PER both years and WS + WS/48 in '09. :oldlol:

[Doranku]

because not everyone needs the same level of help.

shaq barely needed kobe IMO.

Multiple series went down to 7 games during the Lakers 3peat, but yeah Shaq done coulda won all buh himself!!!!



if it wasn't for end of game situations, he would have done just fine with a team of 3&D-type players.

Yeah let's just brush aside a significantly important part of the game to make a point. :roll:


kobe's value could have been exchanged for any number of guys who would have fit just as well and likely would have made the offense run more efficiently.

lmao, please name these players capable of averaging more than 29/7/6 en route to a 15-1 playoff massacre.



and then you have lebron... a guy who could probably drag a college team to the NBA playoffs all by himself.

The sad thing is you probably actually believe this.


kobe was always a guy who needed a finely-constructed team around him and top-level coaching to succeed, not unlike an iverson.

Yeah because the two-headed monster Lakers are similar to the Kobe/Gasol pick&pop Lakers. :roll:

Stick to the OTC, bud. You're clearly lost in here.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe led in playoff PER both years and WS + WS/48 in '09. :oldlol:

Who lead them in the 2010 finals PER? Or ws?
Or ws and ws/48 in 2010?

[Mr Feeny]

Sure whatever, but let's ignore the fact a member of the 'best front court in the league' put up 6/4 and 7/5

Lets not forget that the other guy was carrying the 30% finals 4th quarter shooter:lol

[Dray n Klay]

Lets not forget that the other guy was carrying the 30% finals 4th quarter shooter:lol

:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:

[TommyGriffin]

Jabbar certainly has his ways to trigger the op :lol

I love the duo he makes with the playboy, sick alphas

#respect
They are sexy, and they are cool. :applause:

[Hey Yo]

So because Wade/Dirk did and ended up leading the team to less rings than Kobe, they're automatically better for business?

Far as I see it, goal of the business is to win a championship, Kobe gave LA that twice as the man. He's better for business
Correct.

Kobe gets credit for 2 rings and the other 3 sidekick ones are an afterthought.

[Hey Yo]

Shaq barely needed Kobe but only started winning championships when Kobe got the starting position? The mental gymnastics are real.
You mean when Phil got the HC job....