Lakers aka 2014 Hawks

[retaxis]

Modern day basketball with no stars or potential superstar talent....You can not play GSW and hope to win the playoffs without superstar talent like Curry or Durant. Heck you can not even win with one superstar under any system and GSW showed that they lucked out in 2014 playing against teams who were heavily injured in star power.

Lakers are going to ride that Luke train to 2 playoffs where they are dismantled due to a lack of star power. They will then go the Hawks route again and sign an ageing star player and bust that system up because it simply does not work in the playoffs.

Lakers..you have a glorious history in Mikan, KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Magic, Kobe and etc. Star power wins teams not a system like the Hawks....

Good luck spending the next 3-4 years learning what I have just said.

[BigKAT]

1. 60 Wins and ECF.
Lost to #3 all time.


2.2004 Title.
So much for star power.

3. 2014 Title.
Nobody averaged more then 18 points a game in the finals.

Tim Duncan (Aka the Superstar - 15/10)
Tony Parker (AKA the Successor - 18/4)
Kawahi Leonard (AKA the FMVP - 17/6)

Yes.
Star power is very important.
But you deciding that they have no stars when half of the guys getting minutes on that team are on their 2nd season/1st season, meh I dunno. Wait a bit. You open these threads on a bunch of washed up veterans who suddenly see success due to a new coach's system, not about a bunch of 20 years old performing well.

[retaxis]

1. 60 Wins and ECF.
Lost to #3 all time.


2.2004 Title.
So much for star power.

3. 2014 Title.
Nobody averaged more then 18 points a game in the finals.

Tim Duncan (Aka the Superstar - 15/10)
Tony Parker (AKA the Successor - 18/4)
Kawahi Leonard (AKA the FMVP - 17/6)

Yes.
Star power is very important.
But you deciding that they have no stars when half of the guys getting minutes on that team are on their 2nd season/1st season, meh I dunno. Wait a bit. You open these threads on a bunch of washed up veterans who suddenly see success due to a new coach's system, not about a bunch of 20 years old performing well.
I knew someone would mark the Spurs so lets have a quick look at Spurs as you mentioned they lack star power.

They have not only the greatest power forward of all time (above Malone, Above Barkley, Above Kevin Garnett) and he won multiple MVP awards but also arguably one of the best shooting guards of this generation. Yes they also had a few scrubs like Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker as well who shouldn't be mentioned because they should both be in the D-League.

If that is not the definition of star power...I don't know what is.

I just don't see any star power on that team. They have a bunch of tweeners who don't quite know their position and are definitely not superstar material. Would you say snitchelo is superstar material? Exactly, they have what the Hawks had in 2014, a bunch of potential 'all-stars' who are not going to sniff that superstar level.
Estimates for the next 5 years (Lakers have engaged in tanking for 3 years already)
This year - 42 win team first round exit sweep
Next year - 55 win team (potential second round however abused by teams with star power therefore swept in the second round)
third year - Rebuilding with ageing star and earning them another first round exit
fourth year - 42 win team with ageing star and injuries (8th seed or misses the playoffs)
Fifth year - bye bye luke we are going back to old system of tanking for a super star.

[BigKAT]

I knew someone would mark the Spurs so lets have a quick look at Spurs as you mentioned they lack star power.

They have not only the greatest power forward of all time (above Malone, Above Barkley, Above Kevin Garnett) and he won multiple MVP awards but also arguably one of the best shooting guards of this generation. Yes they also had a few scrubs like Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker as well who shouldn't be mentioned because they should both be in the D-League.

If that is not the definition of star power...I don't know what is.

I just don't see any star power on that team. They have a bunch of tweeners who don't quite know their position and are definitely not superstar material. Would you say snitchelo is superstar material? Exactly, they have what the Hawks had in 2014, a bunch of potential 'all-stars' who are not going to sniff that superstar level.
Estimates for the next 5 years (Lakers have engaged in tanking for 3 years already)
This year - 42 win team first round exit sweep
Next year - 55 win team (potential second round however abused by teams with star power therefore swept in the second round)
third year - Rebuilding with ageing star and earning them another first round exit
fourth year - 42 win team with ageing star and injuries (8th seed or misses the playoffs)
Fifth year - bye bye luke we are going back to old system of tanking for a super star.

Lol man you genuinely had me laughing, touche. :cheers:

But yeah, I mean Tim Duncan might be GOAT tier in his position, but in 2014 he wasn't really what he used to be. (Though advanced numbers indicate he was still quite impactful.)

Tell you what,
So far, the benefit of doubt on this goes to you.
More likely then not, teams will end up like you just stated.
Hawks, Brooklyn, Nuggets, Wizards, Pacers.
Without transcendent talent you don't win chips, you can get close, but eventually the window closes and it will be blown up.
Heck, OKC and LAC shows us that even with superstars it's very hard to win.

So this one goes to you,
but, my hunch is that this will be bumped in a few years, with one of the Lakers having ascended into the top 10 tier in the league.



We in Wolf-county had plenty of amazing prospects with great potential. Even if just -one- of them pans out to their max, we could likely be a force for years to come. My hope is that all of them will reach their potential.

Could it still end up as a faillure? Yes.
But that's the point of sports, trying.

[Charlie Sheen]

Lol man you genuinely had me laughing, touche. :cheers:

But yeah, I mean Tim Duncan might be GOAT tier in his position, but in 2014 he wasn't really what he used to be. (Though advanced numbers indicate he was still quite impactful.)

Tell you what,
So far, the benefit of doubt on this goes to you.
More likely then not, teams will end up like you just stated.
Hawks, Brooklyn, Nuggets, Wizards, Pacers.
Without transcendent talent you don't win chips, you can get close, but eventually the window closes and it will be blown up.
Heck, OKC and LAC shows us that even with superstars it's very hard to win.

So this one goes to you,
but, my hunch is that this will be bumped in a few years, with one of the Lakers having ascended into the top 10 tier in the league.



We in Wolf-county had plenty of amazing prospects with great potential. Even if just -one- of them pans out to their max, we could likely be a force for years to come. My hope is that all of them will reach their potential.

Could it still end up as a faillure? Yes.
But that's the point of sports, trying.
A lot of People overlook that 2014 WCF. Timmy was every bit a superstar, and it doesn't come through in the box scores. Whenever SAS needed a bucket, they went to Duncan. Everyone watching on tv knew the ball was going to Tim, and he just broke the Thunder's spirit every goddamn time.

[BigKAT]

A lot of People overlook that 2014 WCF. Timmy was every bit a superstar, and it doesn't come through in the box scores. Whenever SAS needed a bucket, they went to Duncan. Everyone watching on tv knew the ball was going to Tim, and he just broke the Thunder's spirit every goddamn time.

I don't know.
I mean I watched it, I remember Ibaka's return leading to 2 straight victorise, and a very close game 6 on OKC's turf...

I don't recall much past that.

[AirTupac]

Did OP forget that

Dangelo is 20
Ingram is 19
Randle is 21
Zubac is 19

The first 3 have star potential. One of them might pan out to be a legit allstar / star at least. So way to be a retard OP :oldlol:

[Levity]

going to be a fun time on ISH when in 2018, DMC signs with the lakers as a FA, and Luke does for him what he did for the "this guy will be out of the league" Nick Young.

heil walton!

[Rooster]

Did OP forget that

Dangelo is 20
Ingram is 19
Randle is 21
Zubac is 19

The first 3 have star potential. One of them might pan out to be a legit allstar / star at least. So way to be a retard OP :oldlol:

Yeah it's too early to make conclusion on their career especially none of them has reach their peak yet or if they ever get to that point. One thing for sure, this team is built through the draft. The same way the Lakers was before Shaq came along and Kobe emerged and put the the finishing touch

[Nick Young]

Ingram, Randle and D'Angelo have superstar potential.
Clarkson and Lou Williams are both elite 6th men caliber players. The team is just too stacked.:rockon:

[Smoke117]

going to be a fun time on ISH when in 2018, DMC signs with the lakers as a FA, and Luke does for him what he did for the "this guy will be out of the league" Nick Young.

heil walton!

What kind stupid comparison is that? Demarcus Cousins may be a man baby...but he's 20 times the player Nick young ever was.

[AirTupac]

Also dont be surprised if Lakers make moves as they have done in the past to speed up the rebuild process aka trading a young guy packaged with a pick or Nick Young or Lou Will.

[Levity]

What kind stupid comparison is that? Demarcus Cousins may be a man baby...but he's 20 times the player Nick young ever was.

im saying, ideally, he can keep his head on straight and have him put his focus on the game first and foremost. something cousins has had trouble doing his whole career, always allowing temper tantrums to take over.

similar to how young use to get mentally disengaged during games, and provided little to no defensive impact.

Cousins without a shitty-child mentality, is a top 5 player in this league. no coach (sans malone) has been able to get him to that point, though. joerger, i had high hopes, but there seems to be an issue still prevalent. but of course at some point, you just have to blame the player.

but back to young,he was basically two feet out of the league door this summer, until walton came waltzing in and redefined his career (10 games into the sesaon at least). so as a laker fan, when you see that resurgence of young via coach walton, you gain high hopes for your commander in chief.

[Rooster]

Also dont be surprised if Lakers make moves as they have done in the past to speed up the rebuild process aka trading a young guy packaged with a pick or Nick Young or Lou Will.

Their trade value is high right now since both of them are playing well. I think Deng is the one who does not fit well with the team but his contract is just too high. Ingram should eat his minutes.

[Rooster]

im saying, ideally, he can keep his head on straight and have him put his focus on the game first and foremost. something cousins has had trouble doing his whole career, always allowing temper tantrums to take over.

similar to how young use to get mentally disengaged during games, and provided little to no defensive impact.

Cousins without a shitty-child mentality, is a top 5 player in this league. no coach (sans malone) has been able to get him to that point, though. joerger, i had high hopes, but there seems to be an issue still prevalent. but of course at some point, you just have to blame the player.

but back to young,he was basically two feet out of the league door this summer, until walton came waltzing in and redefined his career (10 games into the sesaon at least). so as a laker fan, when you see that resurgence of young via coach walton, you gain high hopes for your commander in chief.

Nah keep this Boogie away from this Lakers. He's so skilled offensively but his defense is just not there and that is why he does not have a lot of impact like his numbers would suggest.

[Smoke117]

im saying, ideally, he can keep his head on straight and have him put his focus on the game first and foremost. something cousins has had trouble doing his whole career, always allowing temper tantrums to take over.

similar to how young use to get mentally disengaged during games, and provided little to no defensive impact.

Cousins without a shitty-child mentality, is a top 5 player in this league. no coach (sans malone) has been able to get him to that point, though. joerger, i had high hopes, but there seems to be an issue still prevalent. but of course at some point, you just have to blame the player.

but back to young,he was basically two feet out of the league door this summer, until walton came waltzing in and redefined his career (10 games into the sesaon at least). so as a laker fan, when you see that resurgence of young via coach walton, you gain high hopes for your commander in chief.

I don't know what you guys are watching...but Nick Young is not a good defensive player now. Just because a low basketball IQ knucklehead starts trying...that doesn't make him a good player. For instance, Nick NEVER leaves his man on defense...doesn't matter if it's a star or a role player and it doesn't matter whether the player can get off a shot or make a play or not...he's always there. Why? Because he's too stupid to know when to help his teammates, so he'd rather just stay glued to his guy. That's all stupid players or non-adept defensive players are told to do. He has little to no impact on the defense because of this...it's basically a way to get him out of the way and not screw things up. Either way, Nick Young would not be more than a 9th or 10th guy on a team contending,so he is not going to provide any trade bait at all because nobody wants his ass. Nick's become such a stud defensively that he has the worst drating (111) and worst DBPM (-2.8) on the team. I didn't need the advanced stats...but maybe some of you do as a lot of you Laker fans aren't exactly experts when it comes to knowledge of the game and believing what you see with your own eyes. (the rose-shaded effect)

Let's face it too...potentially getting cut has a lot more to do with Nick trying than anything Walton has done. Once the shots stop falling...that will be it for his usefulness. The ball ALWAYS goes up if he can get off any kind of shot...he's a horrible and useless playmaker, so once those shots stop going down, you'll be stuck with his bricks and porous defense.

[Levity]

thats a long write up for something that means nothing to me. im talking about the EFFORT. thats there, whether you want to admit it or not. he never showed that before this season. now, he legitimately tries on defense. and thats something your advance stats cant disprove.

but maybe youre right about him about him being borderline cut before this season, which lit a fire under his ass. but from all accounts and interviews, he thanks walton for that change. as does the rest of the team.

youre too focused on numbers when no one said young is an all-defensive type player (and no one said hes trade bait either. youre just makiing up your own arguements to argue against yourself. fcking weirdo) . we just commend him on this new approach to the game, particularly on defense. so calm your ass down

[Smoke117]

thats a long write up for something that means nothing to me. im talking about the EFFORT. thats there, whether you want to admit it or not. he never showed that before this season. now, he legitimately tries on defense. and thats something your advance stats cant disprove.

but maybe youre right about him about him being borderline cut before this season, which lit a fire under his ass. but from all accounts and interviews, he thanks walton for that change. as does the rest of the team.

youre too focused on numbers when no one said young is an all-defensive type player (and no one said hes trade bait either. youre just makiing up your own arguements to argue against yourself. fcking weirdo) . we just commend him on this new approach to the game, particularly on defense. so calm your ass down

lol...trying doesn't mean shit if you are useless. He's legit the worst defensive player on the team by impact...and you all are praising him for that. :biggums: All this time...and laker fan logic still boggles my mind.

[retaxis]

Lol man you genuinely had me laughing, touche. :cheers:

But yeah, I mean Tim Duncan might be GOAT tier in his position, but in 2014 he wasn't really what he used to be. (Though advanced numbers indicate he was still quite impactful.)

Tell you what,
So far, the benefit of doubt on this goes to you.
More likely then not, teams will end up like you just stated.
Hawks, Brooklyn, Nuggets, Wizards, Pacers.
Without transcendent talent you don't win chips, you can get close, but eventually the window closes and it will be blown up.
Heck, OKC and LAC shows us that even with superstars it's very hard to win.

So this one goes to you,
but, my hunch is that this will be bumped in a few years, with one of the Lakers having ascended into the top 10 tier in the league.



We in Wolf-county had plenty of amazing prospects with great potential. Even if just -one- of them pans out to their max, we could likely be a force for years to come. My hope is that all of them will reach their potential.

Could it still end up as a faillure? Yes.
But that's the point of sports, trying.
Your right on two things and firstly I want to address the fact that some Laker fans are upset.E.g. Airtupac mentioned that they have 3 potential all-stars. I insinuated that they would be all-stars (Hawks 14 had 4 all-stars) however without transcendent talent at a superstar level, they will likely face a team who can exploit their weaknesses and beat them in the playoffs. So to make it clear, i expect Lakers to have multiple all-stars but none of them are going to get this lakers to the promised land therefore in potentially year 3, they are going to have to bust it up and reform/rebuild in order to beat the current contenders.

Secondly I think the Wolves have 2 transcendent talents in Towns and Wiggins who both can play at a superstar level on both sides of the courts (if all works out well). Lakers have a bunch of players who do not have simply the ability or size to really contend E.g. Hawks Millsap/Horford/Teague/Korver/Caroll whom are all good players on both sides of the court however are a combined 0-8 against a superstar level player/team.

I want to further expand on this

Randle is very similar to Millsap in terms of size, rebounding and offensive ability. Millsap showed that he was of DOPY in 14 or 15 (forgot the year so don't call for the mob here) and is potentially a ceiling for the type of player Randle may be.

Snitchelo (Look I hate snitches and so do most men so I am not going to drop this!!) is a good player but so is Jeff Teague who cracked all-stars. Teague is arguably faster and more athletic and many GM's in the league will tell the observers that Teague's physical talents are on the same chapter as Westbrook and Wall

Ingraham is actually the player that I think could potentially do some real damage as he has a good size and ability however he will be punished in the post if he is spending a lot of time at the 3/4 position. I can definitely see guys like Melo/Bron/Kawhi etc literally bullying his lanky frame and pump faking to get an easy foul or an and1.

Hawks also had a junkyard dog like Carrol and arguably the best 3pt catch a shoot player in the league (in the Klay Thompson/Reddick category)

I think the Lakers should look at trading some talent in the next off season to see if they can lure a superstar next season and go all out. The Lakers are known to trade for great big men like Shaq/Kareem. Potentially look at trading Randle and Mozgov for a legitimate big man or focus on developing one player to a superstar level.

GSW system worked because, in my opinion, they already have a transcendent talent in Curry and complimentary pieces. The Lakers do not have a piece to build around and at this stage are conflicted on who to build around because it may ruin team chemistry and etc.

[talkingconch]

This team has anthony davis written all over it if they want to speed up the process

[Rooster]

This team has anthony davis written all over it if they want to speed up the process

He's actually a great fit on what Lakers are running. Him and DRuss can pick and roll teams to death. Him and Randle can switch on anyone defensively. And he can run and gun with the bench. Only way New Orleans let him go though is if he demands it.

[pedromarinho]

Forget Davis guys...

Why the hell would the Hornets get rid of him? For what assets? Just not gonna happen.

[Nick Young]

Randle and Russell are going to be our version of Stockton and Malone. A version that wins titles.

[pedromarinho]

Randle and Russell are going to be our version of Stockton and Malone. A version that wins titles.Joke aside, Randle and Russel has a nice ring to it.

[Bosnian Sajo]

lol...trying doesn't mean shit if you are useless. He's legit the worst defensive player on the team by impact...and you all are praising him for that. :biggums: All this time...and laker fan logic still boggles my mind.


Perfect example of someone who watches box scores rather than games.


And give a little more context when throwing around those advanced stats; other than Nance and Randle, every player on our team has a DRtg of 107-111, not just Nick.

Dbpm is a stupid stat, what tf does it mean when a player is -2 or 2? Nick's obpm is by far the best on the team and his bpm (average of both?) is 4th on the team behind Nance, Randle, and Lou.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Klay Thompson is renowned as the best 3&D player in the league, right? He's known as a good defender, 2 time all nba 3rd team player.

His Dbpm is -4.2 (faaar worse than Nick) and his DRtg is 113, worse than any player on the Lakers. So that means based on advanced stats, when we compare Nick Young and Klay Thompson, Swaggy is the superior defender. Hell, advanced stats tell us that every player on the Lakers squad is a better defender than Klay.

But is that really the case?



Harrison Barnes is -2.2 and DRtg is 110. So he and Nick are about the same level when it comes to defense.

Is that the case??


**** advanced stats, I've never been big on that. They can be interesting for sure, but far from accurate to the point where you can just look at the stats and know who is the best and worst defenders.

[Smoke117]

Perfect example of someone who watches box scores rather than games.


And give a little more context when throwing around those advanced stats; other than Nance and Randle, every player on our team has a DRtg of 107-111, not just Nick.

Dbpm is a stupid stat, what tf does it mean when a player is -2 or 2? Nick's obpm is by far the best on the team and his bpm (average of both?) is 4th on the team behind Nance, Randle, and Lou.

I literally said what I see from him before I posted any advanced stats...maybe read that first?

[Bosnian Sajo]

Glad to see you have no response to my argument on advanced stats :)


I literally said what I see from him before I posted any advanced stats...maybe read that first?


Yea but who the **** cares what you see from him? You're a known hater, that label is on you. Nobody takes your personal view seriously because of how often you're hating (trolling? Use whatever word you want).



It's like the boy who cried wolf. I don't take you serious when presenting an opinion, because it's often biased as a negative to anything Purple and gold.


See you later tonight, buddy. Game starts at 10:30 (7:30 Pacific), don't be late. :cheers:

[Smoke117]

Glad to see you have no response to my argument on advanced stats :)




Yea but who the **** cares what you see from him? You're a known hater, that label is on you. Nobody takes your personal view seriously because of how often you're hating (trolling? Use whatever word you want).



It's like the boy who cried wolf. I don't take you serious when presenting an opinion, because it's often biased as a negative to anything Purple and gold.


See you later tonight, buddy. Game starts at 10:30 (7:30 Pacific), don't be late. :cheers:

Don't embarrass yourself...I troll laker fans because it's amusing, but the Lakers aren't worth hating. If you actually think I'm wrong about Nick then you just don't know basketball.