Franchise Player Breakdown - Andre Drummond

[BigKAT]

'm going to do my own personal breakdown of a few Franchise players.
If these threads interest anyone, I might do more.

*At the end I'll give them my personal rating. From 1star (Empty stat padder) to 5 Star (Finals MVP Material)

*I'll do my best to stick to 'Lone Wolves' (Aka Paul George, Kemba Walker, Current James Harden, Gordon Hayward.) It doesn't mean their team is bad, only that they are considered the only 'all star caliber' in the eyes of many.

*This is mostly my opinions. I'll use some data and other articles but I'll mention them at the end.

*Feel free to disagree with me (lol, like you guys need permission for that)

Let's start.


Andre Drummond

http://www.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/andre-drummond.jpg


How did he get to the team:
Picked 9th by the Detroit Pistons, Drummond reached a situation that might've been anything but perfect for him. The 2012 was stacked, and Drummond landed in a team that didn't exactly have the room for a starting Center. He started a mere 10 games, with incumbent Prospect Greg Monroe getting most of the spotlight.

What the Team looked like before he arrived:
In one word? Struggles. In two words? Messy Struggles. The team started 4-20 in the 2011 season. They did pull somewhat of a comeback, going 500 for the rest of the season, enough for a 25-41 finish in the shortened season. Hope of the franchise at that point? Brandon Knight and Greg Monroe.

Improvement Graph Over the Years:

Rookie Season:
7.9 Points. 7.6 Rebounds. 60% shooting. Not bad at all? Isn't it? Now here's the exciting part. He averaged only 20 minutes a game. That's impressive stats on a not so big sample. He finished 4th in the ROY voting, and posted a strong rookie season, all things considered, showing tons of promise.

Sophmore Season and onwards:
Detroit was a mess. They seemed torn between homegrown talent in Monroe and Drummond, and a Win-now attitude demonstrated by signing of Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith. The Twin Tower experiment didn't work well, and despite Drummond posting improved stats with higher usage and minutes (about 13/13) it did not translate into W's. It wasn't until the 2015 season and the infamous 'disposal' of Josh smith that the change started to happen, opening the floor for Drummond. And not until Greg Monroe bolted in Free agency that the keys to the post were truely handed to Drummond. The Result? A Monster season of 16.2 points, 14.8 Rebounds and an All-star berth. Oh, did we mention the first Playoff Appearence since 2009?


Contract:

$127,171,313 for five years. The contract bleeds upwards, starting at 22 million and climbing with each season. Not a catch by any means, but with the new cap landscape? Seems worth it.

Strengths:

http://i.giphy.com/yoJC2zAXEtfWbhusIE.gif

*Size, Size, Size. You can't teach size. Standing at 6'11, Andre Drummond is one of the most imposing players in the game. Finesse is nice, anticipation is important, but sometimes being able to just overpower your opponet in the post is enough. Potential wise, Drummond is a fast for his size, and his vertical leap and 2nd bounce is out there with the likes of other athletic giants.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/11-14-2016/X2ZBor.gif

*Post Moves. He got them. The best slight people can think of nowdays when discussing Big men is 'Oh, they have no post moves. They just do lobs and putbacks.' Wrong. At least when it comes to Drummond. He has shown a nice touch and more importantly, a willingness to improve.


http://i.makeagif.com/media/11-14-2016/tQ6VL9.gif

*Explosive. He's confident enough of his explosiveness to get into the Dunk Contest. But he also display impressive feats of in-game bursts that makes you wonder if you're watching Andre Drummond or a Star Wing on the fast break. Either way, it helps that his defensive anticipation got considerbly better.


https://media.giphy.com/media/YrstgPkY4NlAY/giphy.gif

*Rim Protection. He's far from great. But the potential, size, speed and instincts are all there. Once he learns to stop overhelping, and avoid silly fouls, we could look at a real rim protector of the highest tier. With guidance from an Elite coach like Van Gundy, we could see Drummond anchor top 10 defenses year in and out. They ranked 14th in Defensive Efficency. Far from Elite, but definetly on the right path.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/11-14-2016/0cG2h0.gif

*Elite Rebounding Nose for the ball. One of the best rebounders in the game right now. There's no stressing how important rebounding is to a team. Defensive rebounds cements a good defensive posession, while giving up offensive ones are one of the most morale crushing things that can happen to a defense. And not to mention Offensive rebounds and putbacks have shown to become extremely important come playoff time, when points can be harder to come by.
*

Part Two in comments:

[BigKAT]

Weaknesses:

*Slow Growth. Drummond was most often compared to Dwight Howard. The two had very similar statlines early on, but when you look at Dwight, he moved on rather quickly. In his 3rd and 4th season he was already putting up 17 and 20 points per game, where Drummond has posted improvements of one to two points between each season, making many to wonder if he ever will become a dominant scorer.

*Free Throws Yes. Yes, I know you are dying to say it. So here it is, I'll say it myself. Free. ****ing. Throws. He can't shoot them. He can't shoot them to save his life. He started out as a 37% shooter from the line. And last season? After years in the league? 35%. It's not Hack-an-Andre. Its Get-The-Ball-Back-For-Free. It turned so horrible come playoff time, that Drummond spent the greater part of many otherwise competetive 4th quarters vs the cavs..? Guess where? On the Bench. And seeing that this is a FRANCHISE PLAYER BREAKDOWN-- You got to be asking yourself, Well, doh, Bigkat, what kind of Franchise player can't play in the playoffs when you need him..? Well, Not a good one.


*Potential (Again):He's not as nearly as good a defender as he could be. He's one of the most athletic guys at his size, you'd expect him to be up there with Rudy Gobert, Serge Ibaka and Andre Bogut, making fools out of puny perimeter players foolish enough to step into his paint. Not so much. But there's room to be encouraged. Last season Andre Drummoned ranked 7th in Defensive rating as an individual. Ahead of heralded defensive Anchors such as Draymond Green (12th) and Derrick Favors (15th).

http://i.giphy.com/3rgXBPAM8bW04qJeBq.gif
*Calm He tends to rush his shot at times. Needless to say, the post is not for the faint of heart. It takes balls to take your time at the post, looking for the best shot. Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki made a living out of it. Good Passers such as Lebron James and Pau Gasol learned to destroy defenses with their backs to the basket. Yet it takes calm and patience, and confidence. And at times it seems like Drummond lacks it.

Conclusion:
Drummond is oozing with potential. Yet he has not been extremely fast to show it. He's no longer a prospect, he led his team to the playoffs and he's no longer able to hide behind the 'Young' label. The East is not as easy to push around as it was, and the league is moving away from post players who can't step out and shoot, and until the Hack-a-shaq tactics are dealt with (If ever) it will be a major achilles hill in the Pistons hopes of contention. The track record of players recovering their FT percentage isn't too good. Yet it's impossible not to salivate at the thought of Drummond paired with a capable wing, and tearing the league with an inside-out offense. His rebounding can really wreck havock, and it would be stupid to sleep on Van Gundy's capable team-building skills.

Rating as a Franchise Player-
3/5 Stars.
You wait for players like this for years. Getting him at 9th is a joke. But the thing is, in a league going further away from One-guy shows towards two and three all-stars per team in order to contend, it might not be enough. Drummond is a good piece, but unless Detroit pairs him with the right players, we might never get to see his potential truely unleashed.

Credits:
Grantland - Andre Drummond under constructions
Fox Sports - Stats
Basketball Reference - Stats
NBA.Com - Video Gifs

Previous Entries in the Breakdown Series:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=418915 - Kemba Walker
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=419110 - Gordon Hayward
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419275 - Klay Thompson 37 point in a quarter
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419166 - Lebron James 61 points

[Ben Simons]

Nice breakdown.

[antonAC]

it's the free throwing that's not just bad, it's black hole vortex shit. like Harden is bad at defense, he's not throwing up alley-oop passes for the opposition.

[BigKAT]

it's the free throwing that's not just bad, it's black hole vortex shit. like Harden is bad at defense, he's not throwing up alley-oop passes for the opposition.

Definetly.

Get that Free-throw percentage to just 60% and you're looking at a 20 PPG scorer, who is much more aggressive. And I reckon a 50 win team last season.
Not 70, not 80. 60. Or even 55.
But 35? that's just like you described it. A black hole.

[CuhGetsBucks]

I mean you nailed pretty much everything. Good thread, nice work.

[BigKAT]

I mean you nailed pretty much everything. Good thread, nice work.

:cheers:

I started a thread yesterday trying to see who people was highest on, Wall, Drummond or Russell. Considered them all, but since I already did one on a PG (Kemba) I decided to go with Drummond.

[ArbitraryWater]

Actually really impressive :applause: Can tell you love bball

[AirFederer]

Great breakdown :cheers:

[brownmamba00]

His FT% is up to 53% this year. He'll get to 60% he's a late bloomer. Always felt like Drummonds real weakness was his inability to guard the paint tho. Spotting the open player when doubled is not exactly one of his strengths either.

Detroit basketball still has a long way to go but when they get to the end of the tunnel they could have a monster of a player on their hands.

20+pts w/ 15 boards a game something like a modern day Moses Malone should be a force to be reckoned with for years to come in the soft bigman-less Eastern Conference.

[BigKAT]

His FT% is up to 53% this year. He'll get to 60% he's a late bloomer. Always felt like Drummonds real weakness was his inability to guard the paint tho. Spotting the open player when doubled is not exactly one of his strengths either.

Detroit basketball still has a long way to go but when they get to the end of the tunnel they could have a monster of a player on their hands.

20+pts w/ 15 boards a game something like a modern day Moses Malone should be a force to be reckoned with for years to come in the soft bigman-less Eastern Conference.

Yes. That is a possibility as soon as this season.
Most, if not all great scorers in the league in this day and age feast on the free-throw line. I think that the last 10 Scoring champs averaged at least 7 made FT's a game. (Durant for sure.)

So if you give this guy just a 60% FT percentage? It makes him far more aggressive, and comfortble. Even if you ignore the And-ones coming his way, the extra confidence could really put him over the edge as a 20+ Scorer. And that can really turn Detroit into a force in the East.

I agree about the defense. His problems are in his thinking, he's a good help defender, but fails to contain post scorers one on one that well.

[Proctor]

Great thread :applause: :applause:

[miggyme1]

only thing missing is the killer instinct. dude is a straight up beast. He should be destroying teams down low. no one can check him IMO...offensively he is raw but as far as just his raw talent and the way he runs the floor and rebounds...he should be overwhelming frontcourts

[DaHeezy]

Way to jinx him!
He's out tonight with an ankle sprain :no:

[PeroAntic]

Cant wait for Jabari Parker

[sundog67]

Watched every Pistons game since Drummond first started coming off the bench... I have to agree with the vast majority of your assessment, very good job indeed.

The only place I've seen Drummond regress is his intensity. There were times during the Mo Cheeks days where Dre was damn near unstoppable. Every pick & roll with Will Bynum was deadly, leading to a high flying oop or layup due to the defense collapsing on Dre. He was still learning the game but he was using his physicality to its utmost.

Nowadays Dre plays way more under the hoop. There would be nothing wrong with that if he could hit his FT's - which he is admittedly doing way better this year due to shooting the ball higher - but going up high and hard for a 2 handed slam is where he can not be stopped.

There have been flashes of these types of plays this season so my hat's off to him. But I think if he keeps his intensity up his numbers will be completely off the charts.

[BigKAT]

Watched every Pistons game since Drummond first started coming off the bench... I have to agree with the vast majority of your assessment, very good job indeed.

The only place I've seen Drummond regress is his intensity. There were times during the Mo Cheeks days where Dre was damn near unstoppable. Every pick & roll with Will Bynum was deadly, leading to a high flying oop or layup due to the defense collapsing on Dre. He was still learning the game but he was using his physicality to its utmost.

Nowadays Dre plays way more under the hoop. There would be nothing wrong with that if he could hit his FT's - which he is admittedly doing way better this year due to shooting the ball higher - but going up high and hard for a 2 handed slam is where he can not be stopped.

There have been flashes of these types of plays this season so my hat's off to him. But I think if he keeps his intensity up his numbers will be completely off the charts.

Thanks mate.
And I guess what I'm trying to say in the end, Is that I'm not sure we'll ever see 'Monster numbers' from the guy. I mean, sure 15/15 is monster numbers, just not the 22/14 we saw from dwight. The league is too different nowdays. But he could still have a great deal of impact. If he improves on his weaknesses, it might not bump his stats that much, but it will definetly bump the Pistons on the Win collumn. Which is definetly more valuable.


Actually really impressive :applause: Can tell you love bball

Great thread :applause: :applause:

Great breakdown :cheers:


:cheers: Thanks, appreciate it.

[TheWinningFam]

Do giannis ty bebe and nice breakdown :crazysam:

[warriorfan]

if this ***** does one more steroid hes gonna grow hair on his mother ****in forhead

-The Playboy

[Milbuck]

Do giannis ty bebe and nice breakdown :crazysam:
I'll give you a breakdown right now.

weaknesses: jumpshot
strengths: everything else

[TommyGriffin]

if this ***** does one more steroid hes gonna grow hair on his mother ****in forhead

-The Playboy
Expert basketball analysis. :bowdown:

[Spurs m8]

You're a ripper big kat!! :cheers:

Credits hahaha

You're almost like a bot sometimes, but a smart one.

JohnMax, take note.

[Prime_Shaq]

First off, fantastic job and good breakdown :cheers:

I don't see him as a true number 1 guy though but he can be a really outstanding second option.

[BigKAT]

Do giannis ty bebe and nice breakdown :crazysam:

Giannis might be my next one. But I did a SF, PG and C, I'm thinking of maybe looking for a SG/PF for the next one. Thing is with Giannis, you could really label him all these things. It's up between Giannis and Anthony Davis.


First off, fantastic job and good breakdown :cheers:

I don't see him as a true number 1 guy though but he can be a really outstanding second option.

Thanks :rockon: Also, yeah. He could be the number 2 of a contender, but if the Dwight/Harden experiment taught us anything, it's that dominant guards sometimes make their centers wilt, if they are too ball dominant. We've seen it in Howard's rejuvination in Atlanta. All and all, I think that the Center/Guard tandem works best when the Center is the Alpha. (Shaq/Kobe, Shaq/Penny, Hakeem/Drexler, etc..)


You're a ripper big kat!! :cheers:

Credits hahaha

You're almost like a bot sometimes, but a smart one.

JohnMax, take note.

:roll: Gotta hand them credits man. I don't pull these stats out of my ass lol. Plus, people might want to check my data, might as well give it up front.


I'll give you a breakdown right now.

weaknesses: jumpshot
strengths: everything else

Well, that's in a nutshell, but not that inaccurate.

[Prime_Shaq]

Thanks :rockon: Also, yeah. He could be the number 2 of a contender, but if the Dwight/Harden experiment taught us anything, it's that dominant guards sometimes make their centers wilt, if they are too ball dominant. We've seen it in Howard's rejuvination in Atlanta. All and all, I think that the Center/Guard tandem works best when the Center is the Alpha. (Shaq/Kobe, Shaq/Penny, Hakeem/Drexler, etc..)




Its also kind of a mentality thing. Howard was/is a great player but his mental fortitude was not the best. We've seen Center/Guard combos that work well when the center was a second option a well like Magic/Kareem. However to your point, its works best when the Center is the alpha also because its easier to build a good team around a Center. I just don't think Drummond is that Center.

[BigKAT]

Its also kind of a mentality thing. Howard was/is a great player but his mental fortitude was not the best. We've seen Center/Guard combos that work well when the center was a second option a well like Magic/Kareem. However to your point, its works best when the Center is the alpha also because its easier to build a good team around a Center. I just don't think Drummond is that Center.



Yup. I agree.
He's still young, and stranger things have happened though.
(Steph Curry back-to-back MVP out of nowhere, James harden landing in Houston and turning into Super Nash, and the Atlanta Hawks winning 60 games after an 8th seed season.)

[Prime_Shaq]

Yup. I agree.
He's still young, and stranger things have happened though.
(Steph Curry back-to-back MVP out of nowhere, James harden landing in Houston and turning into Super Nash, and the Atlanta Hawks winning 60 games after an 8th seed season.)
How about doing Dame next? :cheers:

[BigKAT]

How about doing Dame next? :cheers:

Dame is a thrilling player without a doubt.
He's on my to-do-list, but I kinda want to cover at least 4, if not 5 positions before repeating. Already did Kemba, so might stay away from pointguards for now, lol.

[Zeppelin]

Fantastic breakdown. Can't wait for more.

[thefatmiral]

Watching his game vs the spurs made me consider if they can even build around this guy

[sundog67]

Thanks mate.
And I guess what I'm trying to say in the end, Is that I'm not sure we'll ever see 'Monster numbers' from the guy. I mean, sure 15/15 is monster numbers, just not the 22/14 we saw from dwight. The league is too different nowdays. But he could still have a great deal of impact.


Agreed, his numbers are "high" but IMO that's simply due to his stature... He could just be standing around the paint collecting rebounds and getting tip-ins. Heck, he pretty much already does that! Taking Dre to the next level IMO is a complete mental task.

1- Stop dancing and dabbing like a little child and take each and every game seriously. We've seen him go out there showing a wide variety of emotions; sometimes he's giddy and laughing, sometimes he straight up looks like Eeyore. Learn to control your emotions, and get your game face on.

2- Shoot your free throws high and keep them there. I've been at multiple pre-game shootarounds this year and guys are always goofing off with wild layups, dunks, half courters, etc.

Dre's goof-around is shooting his FTs with an over-exaggerated arc, must have been double the height of the rim, no joke. Guess what, it kept going in! Granted this is not during the pressure of a game but there is logic to the mechanic there. He's a big guy and shooting it flatter requires a higher level of accuracy that he just doesn't have. Shooting it high with a high arc at least gives him the opportunity to go off glass if the shot's off.

3- (again) Go up hard. There are few players in the NBA that could stop Dre on a dunk at full velocity with the ball in both hands. Chances will be much higher that he makes that basket - defense will be relatively powerless, people will be getting out of his way to avoid being posterized...and with the ball secured there is a higher chance of a FG make and less pressure to hit FTs. We've seen a few of these dunks this year, so that's promising. But he's been relying too much on his very limited post moves, and his releases are often a hook that's too far away from the basket, or an under-the-hoop lay-in in traffic. He could be more efficient than that, with a little effort. Learn the drop-step, BBQ chicken..

TL;DR- Between the FTs, taking the game seriously, and going up hard, Dre has a little work to do.

[Aussie Dunker]

Great breakdown mate - looks pretty accurate to me.

One thing that might have been overlooked was his intangibles - namely setting screens and positioning. He sets very precise screens with the angles in which he uses which helps open up our O.

[Charlie Sheen]

:cheers:

Good read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

[Fire Colangelo]

Good read.

I hope he doesn't end up as a poor man's Dwight Howard, because that's pretty much all he is right now.

[Jasper]

I see Drummond as a Shaq type player , but he needs schooling on free throws...
I mean hit the backboard , or shoot it under hand , anything to get it above 60% ... I mean it changes the whole game for him as well as his team(.)

[BigKAT]

Great breakdown mate - looks pretty accurate to me.

One thing that might have been overlooked was his intangibles - namely setting screens and positioning. He sets very precise screens with the angles in which he uses which helps open up our O.


:cheers:

Good read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

Good read.

I hope he doesn't end up as a poor man's Dwight Howard, because that's pretty much all he is right now.

:cheers:

We'll see. This season could be the one he'll take another leap.
He's still fairly young, at 23, anything could happen.