Marquis Daniels traded for Austin Croshere [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

AKADS

07-05-2006, 10:09 PM

Why?

Maybe they're clearing space for another signing?
http://home.earthlink.net/~jtkramer65/05-06salaries.htm

Look at the Salaries before you say things. Austin Is owed almost 9 million and Marquis are 6. So that means if this is true the Mavs would have to give up more salary.

But Austin is an experir

HALLandOATES

07-05-2006, 10:09 PM

Really strange trade I'm sure there is a reasonable explantion for this, I mean Cuban was behind it lol . Daniels do do pretty great when he did get off the bench in Dallas.

fatboy11

07-05-2006, 10:09 PM

:wtf:

KnicksFan4Life

07-05-2006, 10:09 PM

hhhmmm, i'll admit....I wasn't expecting this

Hawker

07-05-2006, 10:10 PM

hhhmmm, i'll admit....I wasn't expecting this

same but at least we have a decent back up fir dirk. Croshere does get rebounds.

joewait

07-05-2006, 10:10 PM

You know what, I'm actually happy for Marquis. He showed flashes of being a very good player, but he just isn't a good fit/used well in the Mavs system. As much as I wanted him in Dallas, I'm glad he is getting a better opportunity now. Dallas now gets a spot up shooter that it desperately needs

ALBballer

07-05-2006, 10:11 PM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/?nl

my god i HATE this deal

WTF? Is this one of those fake articles, god I hope so for the Mavs sakes. This deal makes no sense for the Mavs, unless they wanted to dump Daniels, but besides, you could get a much better player for Daniles.

Silent Mav

07-05-2006, 10:13 PM

I would've thought Marquis was worth more than that. Just have to trust Donnie and Avery know what they are doing.

kentatm

07-05-2006, 10:14 PM

DAllas had better have something else going on b/c this sucks.

LiL Stevie

07-05-2006, 10:15 PM

Weird deal.

AKADS

07-05-2006, 10:17 PM

They did get an experir for a 4 yr deal. So maybe Cuban is trying to open up some money for next yr so he can get a FA. Plus they drafted Daniels replacement.

geeWiz15

07-05-2006, 10:20 PM

this trade aint bad at all. Dallas has always been lookin to have a big guy to stretch the floor against soft teams so that dirk can drive and also to stretch the defense when Dirk's on the floor... and it turns out Van Horn in fact sucks. Croshere doesn't. He's a good player. Hits open shots, plays hard, can even slash a little, plays hard, and rebounds. And he never misses FTs.

I'm guessing they simply couldn't find another deal and want a one year rental of KVH... or, they're looking to package that expirer in a deal for a serious player.

Plus, with cap space or a huge pair of expiring deal, they can actually look to sign some star. Paul Pierce?

ALBballer

07-05-2006, 10:20 PM

They're clearing up cap space to sign Vince Carter or Paul Pierce come next summer and I'm not kidding.

First off, Terry/Dirk/Dampier must make atleast 35 million dollars all together, not to mention resigning Howard.

Orealius

07-05-2006, 10:23 PM

Is that all Quis was worth? I thought they'd be able to get more for him.

Jerm

07-05-2006, 10:24 PM

First off, Terry/Dirk/Dampier must make atleast 35 million dollars all together, not to mention resigning Howard.

So you won't give up Howard for a chance at Paul Pierce or Vince Carter?

Silent Mav

07-05-2006, 10:26 PM

More like 31 mil if Terry's new deal starts at 8 mil.

kumquat

07-05-2006, 10:30 PM

I actually like the deal for the mavs after reading some of your input. They can do more with the cap space signing a big player next year with Croshere and Stack expiring than they could with Daniels as a player.

hotsizzle

07-05-2006, 10:31 PM

GREAT trade for indy

SixerFan03

07-05-2006, 10:32 PM

http://home.earthlink.net/~jtkramer65/05-06salaries.htm

Is Dallas really still paying Finley?

After this year (according to that link), Dallas owes:

17M for Finley
16M for Dirk
10M for Dampier
4M for Harris
2M for Bradley (he's still on the payroll?)
2M for Diop

And Josh Howard is a restricted Free Agent.

Terry has a 6 year $50M deal. NBA deals are usually back loaded. So that's about 6 or 7M for Terry at the end of the season.

What's the current cap?

Edit: The Current cap is about $55 Million.

If Dallas is paying for Finley, they will still be over the cap after this season.

vmdv12

07-05-2006, 10:34 PM

holy crap! This is a damn good trade for Indy! That sucks because I'm a Bulls fan. Daniels fits exactly what Indy is trying to do. Nice trade for them. He fits their style better than Peja did.

geeWiz15

07-05-2006, 10:34 PM

So you won't give up Howard for a chance at Paul Pierce or Vince Carter?
Key thing here is a CHANCE. They have to waive bird rights of Howard before they may pursue Pierce/Carter... so what happens if they lose Howard and then Pierce/Carter resign? It's risky. Sure they can get a verbal agreement (unofficial of course) but Boozer didn't hesitate to take advantage of a verbal agreement for more money/play where he wanted, whose to say a snake like Vince, or an unpredictable, introverted homer like Pierce would do? We can't know. It's chancy.

Hell, I would. But Mavs really think Howard is something special. He isn't. Every team has a Howard. Hows he different from a Stephen Jackson, a Caron Butler, a Tayshaun Prince, a Nocioni, a Deng, etc etc etc. dime a dozen player, there are almost as many Howards as there are Mike James/Juan Dixon/Bobby Jackson/etc's. (although the former is more effective than the latter)

fatboy11

07-05-2006, 10:34 PM

I mean, if you think about it: Croshere is going to play the role that KVH did last year.

Croshere, while overpaid, is still less expensive than KVH was this year and he can actually do other things besides occasionally hit a wide open 3.

And Quis never really played.

winci

07-05-2006, 10:34 PM

The deal make sense Dallas drafted M. Ager who is a better shooter and defender than marquis and got dirk's back-up in return. Still dallas should have gotten something else in return beside croshere.

Mavs are still contenders so no reason to be upset.

geeWiz15

07-05-2006, 10:36 PM

This is a damn good trade for Indy! That sucks because I'm a Bulls fan.
Don't worry. You have the best team in the East, whereas the Pacers, well, their first option is always injured and shies away from greatness, and their second option is Marquis Daniels...

fatboy11

07-05-2006, 10:36 PM

I think Indy is about to ship out Stephen Jackson.............

cured

07-05-2006, 10:41 PM

What the hell?! Did they not think they could pay him or something? Daniels >>>>>>>>>>> Austin Croshere.

SixerFan03

07-05-2006, 10:43 PM

More like 31 mil if Terry's new deal starts at 8 mil.

Terry's deal averages 8 mil. He won't make 8 million at the end of the next season. Josh Howard should make around 12 million on his new deal.

fatboy11

07-05-2006, 10:43 PM

Daniels >>>>>>>>>>> Austin Croshere.Who plays behind Dirk on the depth chart?

Jerry Stackhouse, Josh Howard, Maurice Ager........hell even Adrian Griffin was playing over Quis. And Terry spends a lot time at the two as well.

No room for him and it's possible that Avery didn't really care for him.

DatZNasty

07-05-2006, 10:45 PM

knew we were getting rid of Quis this summer but hoped we would net more than Croshere. Yes he CAN hit 3s, and drive bigs, and rebound, etc. but so can KVH. Problem is, players like them generally DON'T, especially in the playoffs.

ALBballer

07-05-2006, 10:47 PM

So you won't give up Howard for a chance at Paul Pierce or Vince Carter?

I say trade Devin Harris, Josh Howard, and Jerry Stackhouse for Paul Pierce and back-up PG. Dunno would the Celtics trade Delonte West?

scipio

07-05-2006, 10:47 PM

I'm glad the Pacers finally made a move. Croshere hasn't fit in as well the last couple of seasons, and he's starting to decline. Daniels is young and defends well, so he should fit in Rick's system. Hopefully the Pacers will continue to make moves this off season.

Haha...the Pacers are turning into the Atlanta Hawks. They drafted 3 swingmen and just traded for another one.

Well, Granger and Shawne Williams are 3/4s, while Daniels is a 2. So I don't think we need to worry about Daniels not getting playing time. I suppose James White is a 2/3, but he's a 2nd round pick and isn't guaranteed a contract.

Silent Mav

07-05-2006, 10:49 PM

Terry's deal averages 8 mil. He won't make 8 million at the end of the next season

I knew it averaged 8 mil, I was just using that as a worse case on the combined salaries.

No room for him and it's possible that Avery didn't really care for him.

For some reason he seemed to be in Avery's doghouse. Not sure if we'll ever know why. In one interview Stack said Quis would be a star on another team. He doesn't seem the type to be hyping players without good reason.

kentatm

07-05-2006, 10:50 PM

I say trade Devin Harris, Josh Howard, and Jerry Stackhouse for Paul Pierce and back-up PG. Dunno would the Celtics trade Delonte West?

i would die from excitment if that happened.

SixerFan03

07-05-2006, 10:51 PM

Anyway, does any Mav fan know if the team is still paying Finley?

Silent Mav

07-05-2006, 10:52 PM

Yep, this year and next. Counts against the cap but not for the luxury tax.

SixerFan03

07-05-2006, 10:58 PM

Yep, this year and next. Counts against the cap but not for the luxury tax.

OK, then I don't think they'll be under the cap next season. In two years they will be. They should re-sign Howard.

The problem with the Mavs, is that Dampier's contract is terrible. If they can find a team to take him, they might be able to actually do something in free agency. In 2 years I think they'll be under the cap, though. I'm just no sure by how much.

The Mavs basically did this deal because they no longer needed Daniels. They traded him for a player who will be gone in a year and have no effect on the franchise.

fatboy11

07-05-2006, 10:59 PM

Austin only makes 7.3 million this year. I thought he made at least 9 mill. Interesting.

Silent Mav

07-05-2006, 11:03 PM

They should be over the cap in 07-08, then under in 08-09. Like you said not sure how much. That will be determined by how much they extend Dirk and Howard for.

bagelred

07-05-2006, 11:25 PM

Yeah, this is obviously a save money deal for the Mavericks. I saw an interview with Cuban a while back that made it seem like the loose spending days for the Mavericks are over a bit. I think he wants to get a little smarter with the cash flowing out, and Croshere's expiring contract is perfect for that. And for this year at least, he's a decent replacement for Van Horn.

For the Pacers, just trying to build up the talent base on team, after losing Peja and Artest...not a bad move for either team...

II Peter

07-05-2006, 11:28 PM

http://home.earthlink.net/~jtkramer65/05-06salaries.htm

Look at the Salaries before you say things. Austin Is owed almost 9 million and Marquis are 6. So that means if this is true the Mavs would have to give up more salary.

But Austin is an experir

Yeah Croshere makes more but his salary is coming off the books next year giving the Mavs room to pick someone up next year in a trade or have more money to extend one of their players.

Human Error

07-05-2006, 11:44 PM

JHoLove

07-05-2006, 11:57 PM

Van Horn is gone anyways. Theres no reason to bring him back.

TheReturnofCed

07-06-2006, 12:09 AM

Dallas won't be able to sign any free agents outright for a long time, all they can do is: S&T, or use the MLE, or LLE.

My guess is they use Croshere as a spot shooter for half the season and then package him for a decent player, teams always want an expirer. They traded for him to use him to acquire a big name player. Book it.

AKADS

07-06-2006, 12:25 AM

Cuban is trying to get his Cap under controll. Dirk will get a yr deal after next season he can opt out of his contract which he will so he can sign a 6 yr extention. Add in Dampier contract, Terrys and Finley still on the book. The Mavs will not be able to sign Peirce or Vince.

There are alot of uneducated ppl on this board. PPL read about Basket and the rules and CBA please help to develope the intellegance of this board.

miles berg

07-06-2006, 12:28 AM

Van Horn and Croshere on the same team?

Wow, what will the Mavericks do then? Bringing in Matt Bonner, Brian Scalabrine, Nikoloz Tskitishvilli and Matt Freije? Absolutely horrible deal for the Mavericks.

Sacred, you know better than that my friend. Keith is a FA, Croshere is simply a replacement.

Basically Dallas traded Quis and Van Horn for Ager and Croshere, take it for what you want, that is the truth.

What is interesting about this is that Dallas just opened up alot of money to sign a major MLE player. Since backup PF (Croshere) and SG (Ager), this tells me that Mike James is 100% headed to the Mavs:

PG-Mike James | Devin Harris | Darrel Armstrong
SG-Jason Terry | Jerry Stackhouse | Mo Ager
SF-Josh Howard | Adrian Griffin | Rawle Marshall
PF-Dirk Nowitzki | Austin Croshere | Josh Powell
CT-Sagana Swat | Erick Dampier | DJ Mbenga | Pavel

So, either the team doesn't re-sign DA or Griff, or the team saves their MLE and brings back the other same 13 other than Croshere (Van Horn) and Ager (Quis).

I like the deal because it opens up the MLE and it gives Quis a shot to play. Quis is a heck of a talent, he just needs the right situation, not sure if it is Indy but I like the idea for him atleast.

scipio

07-06-2006, 12:46 AM

As a Pacer fan, I'd be interested in hearing Mavs' fans take on Daniels' strengths and weaknesses. I've seen him play a bit, but his playing time seemed sporadic in the playoffs.

kentatm

07-06-2006, 12:58 AM

As a Pacer fan, I'd be interested in hearing Mavs' fans take on Daniels' strengths and weaknesses.

i think if you give him 30 minutes a game he is good for 15/5/5.

people think he is slow but he isnt. he just glides across the court.

he has a great midrange game but past 18 feet he cant shoot worth a lick. sometimes he has trouble finishing but he is good at getting his rebound on misses. his passing is pretty good though he will force it now and then.

on D he is solid though he gambles quite a bit in the passing lanes (though with great success) but he is not good at running through screens.

he is fearless but sometimes seems to lose track of the game. also he has been hurt a little much however I think his injuries have been more bad luck than anything. last year he nearly had his head taken off by Kurt Thomas and messed up his neck (and season, he was starting and playing well at the time) the year before he had an apendectomy in the middle of the year.

enjoy him, i know ill miss him. i really hope the Mavs didnt just give away another Raja Bell, but i feel like they did.

SixerFan03

07-06-2006, 12:59 AM

Mav fans, what are your thoughts on Devin Harris?

From the little I've seen of him, I think he might become a pretty decent PG. I'm not sure about his shooting or defense, though.

wang4three

07-06-2006, 01:01 AM

nice trade.

jbot

07-06-2006, 01:06 AM

wow, quite a surprise! indiana has tried to get rid of croshere for the past 3 seasons and of all the teams to want him...it's dallas. i guess he's gonna be kvh's replacement for this season.

my pacers aren't looking too shabby so far. marquis is a more defensive player and should prove to be a valuable backup. now if they can only get rid of tinsley..........:applause:

scipio

07-06-2006, 01:11 AM

Thanks for the info, kent.

my pacers aren't looking too shabby so far. marquis is a more defensive player and should prove to be a valuable backup. now if they can only get rid of tinsley..........

I don't know. I think Donnie and Larry have quite a bit of work to do before we can be happy with this offseason. I'd be fine with Tinsley leaving, but I would not want to just dump his contract off. His value is probably at an all time low right now, and he'd be a great back up point to AJ when he's healthy.

brown recluse

07-06-2006, 01:26 AM

when they drafted harris, the mavericks believed that he had the potential to turn into a kevin johnson type player. He's got the athleticism, the quickness in particular as most of you saw in the second round series and game 1 of the WCF, to be a KJ clone. So far he has done a pretty good job considering he has faced some injuries and limited playing time. One problem that is clear is that he is not much of a distributr, true pg type player. At Wisconsin he was more of a scorer. Plus he needs to get more consistent with his jumpshot. He has sort of an awkward release, but hopefully he'll be able to nail open jumpers on a consistent basis next season, because opposing defenders are going to have to give him room to shoot, or else he'll be at the basket in a heartbeat. Defensively Harris can be a stud. His quickness allows him to keep up with anybody. He did very well against Wade in th finals. He's got quick hands too. I can see him turining into a Tony Parker. I hope so at least. Him and Barbosa are very similar in their athletical talents and where they are career wise. I see them both turning into really good players.

LiL Stevie

07-06-2006, 01:42 AM

Devin Harris is developing, and we saw how good he can be in flashes during the playoffs. A couple games in the San Antonio series, he emerged as a slashing, running, fast-breaking beast. However, as you saw, when the Spurs put strong emphasis on stopping him, as in the latter part of the series, he was shut down and wasn't the factor that he was in the earlier games. Another example of how good he can be is game 1 of the Phoenix series. The Suns had no answer for him as he just kept answering every shot the Suns made by attacking them. Even stepped up and made a clutch shot with 5 seconds left.

He still needs to be a better finisher around the basket. There were a lot of times when he'd beat his man, get all the way near the rim, but couldn't finish, especially on the left side of the basket. He will have to learn to be a better passer too. As far as shooting, he makes some shots but his mid-range jumper isn't a threat to anyone. I'd like for him to get to Tony Parker's level in shooting.

Defensively, he's already pretty good. He did well when guarding Tony Parker and Steve Nash, and he had good moments against Wade, obviously didn't shut him down, but Hubie Brown was praising his D a lot.

All in all, he's on a good pace. The only other thing I'd like to see, is him staying healthy for a majority of a season. Keep in mind that he's only 23 years old.

kentatm

07-06-2006, 04:04 AM

can any Indy fans give us Mavs fans the lowdown on AC? ive never really had a high opinion of him but maybe im missing something.

Human Error

07-06-2006, 08:11 AM

Sacred, you know better than that my friend. Keith is a FA, Croshere is simply a replacement.

Basically Dallas traded Quis and Van Horn for Ager and Croshere, take it for what you want, that is the truth.
I for one wasn't realizing that Van Horn is a free agent when I was posting. I partied hard last night and maybe it has affected my intelligence at that time...

Anyway, I don't understand why the Mavericks gave up on Marquis Daniels this early. I always thought that Quis should be their starting point guard alongside Terry who's not your prototype point guard and I don't like the idea of starting both Harris and Terry either as more and more teams are being equipped with bigger point guards right now.

Silent Mav

07-06-2006, 09:20 AM

Dirk will get a yr deal after next season he can opt out of his contract which he will so he can sign a 6 yr extention.

They are looking to sign him to a 3 year extension to his present deal of next year and the player option for a total of 5 more years. Keeping him till the 2010-2011 season.

kwajo

07-06-2006, 09:22 AM

I'm quite surprised really, but I like the deal for the Pacers, they get back a player that's close to what they used to have in Jalen Rose + defense

NBAfan32

07-06-2006, 11:17 AM

Good pickup for the Pacers. Im a big Marquis Daniels fan, he's a decent defender and can contribute on offense when needed. Wasnt expecting the Mavs to do this deal though.

saKf

07-06-2006, 12:09 PM

Croshere has a real high chance of his expiring deal being moved at the deadline.

PHXsunsROCK1105

07-06-2006, 01:42 PM

Dear God!

What The Heck Is Dalls Doing?! Don't They Know The Difference Between An Athletic Young Player And Some Slow Fat White Guy!!

R.I.P.

07-06-2006, 01:45 PM

Haha, now Mavs fans would wish it was Gooden. Looking forward to Daniels in Indiana. I think the Pacers will trade Stephon Jackson (how funny would that be) or Tinsley to Atlanta for Al Harrington.

geeWiz15

07-06-2006, 01:50 PM

Dear God!

What The Heck Is Dalls Doing?! Don't They Know The Difference Between An Athletic Young Player And Some Slow Fat White Guy!!
try reading the ****ing thread

Hawker

07-06-2006, 01:52 PM

Also mavs saved 19 million dollars.

R.I.P.

07-06-2006, 02:21 PM

The moves makes no sense, because

A) Croshere is not better than KVH, who the Mavs could resign for less than what Croshere makes.

B) The Mavs will never get under the cap with Finley

soog

07-06-2006, 02:45 PM

Let me first say I love Daniels and would love for him to stay with the Mavs and get more playing time; however, avery doesn't like him so this wont happen.

That being said, this was a great deal for the Mavs. They already fished him in a sign and trade for Mike James. While Daniels has a lot of upsides, at this point he is just potential. He's about $20M over the next 3 years. That's a lot of money for someone who rides the bench.

The Mavs drafted Ager. Obviously Daniels' replacement. The Mavs are also pursuing Mike James with the MLE, and despite VanHorn saying he would resign for less in Dallas, he is going to get larger offers elsewhere.

So the Mavs traded off someone they had already replaced, to fill a void they were going to have, leaving them free to pursue the point guard they want in free agency.

Talk all you want about talent and athleticism, but at somepoint you have to think about business and team management.

albertpujols

07-06-2006, 02:50 PM

Daniels has much more value than Croshere...

305Baller

07-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Steal by Indiana. Dallas seems desperate to make some moves.

jody

07-06-2006, 03:53 PM

the mavericks never used this guy so getting anything for him is OK.

LOL. you gotta laugh at that one guy. "You traded for a white player, YOU MUST BE STUPID HAHA!"

it's posts like that that keep me coming back here.

DatZNasty

07-06-2006, 07:59 PM

As a Pacer fan, I'd be interested in hearing Mavs' fans take on Daniels' strengths and weaknesses. I've seen him play a bit, but his playing time seemed sporadic in the playoffs.

Give him a coach who will play him and not have him on a leash, 16,6, and 5 in 32 minutes easy. I mean in games he started, he surpassed that as a ROOKIE (19,6, and 5) including putting up 14,9, and 7 in his second career start (started at PG that game). He would actually be perfect in the backcourt with a PG who isn't a prototype PG because he can handle, facilitate, and create which is why he should have been starting with Terry.

You guys won this trade, bar none. Don't know where you work him in with Jones, Jackson, and Granger in but if you give him minutes, he'll produce

SupermanOnSteroids

07-06-2006, 08:03 PM

He's the perfect player for Indiana with their oft injured PGs.

catzhernandez

03-10-2008, 12:52 AM

:cry: :cry:

I miss Austin Powers.

PacerRaptor

03-10-2008, 12:55 AM

:cry: :cry:

I miss Austin Powers.
i miss him too, but in the long run i'd rather have Daniels. It looks like Daniels is getting into his niche now, hes playing much better. I just wish that we didnt re-sign Croshere with that huge contract and signed Brad Miller instead (this was a few years back)

catzhernandez

03-10-2008, 03:38 AM

I just wish that we didnt re-sign Croshere with that huge contract and signed Brad Miller instead (this was a few years back)
Helluva point you make there, never thought of it like that. Man, if only Crosh wasn't making so much. Wow. We couldv'e won the chip in '04. Wow. Makes me hate Scot Pollard all the more.

PacerRaptor

03-10-2008, 03:53 AM

Helluva point you make there, never thought of it like that. Man, if only Crosh wasn't making so much. Wow. We couldv'e won the chip in '04. Wow. Makes me hate Scot Pollard all the more.
i dont know what we were thinking trading Brad Miller for Pollard and re-signing Croshere :hammerhead: should have re-signed Brad Miller and let Croshere go

catzhernandez

03-10-2008, 03:56 AM

Well, we didn't sign them both in the same offseason. Croshere got his huge contract the Summer of 2000 after he played so well in the NBA finals. We lost Miller in the summer of 2003, when we had to make the choice of resigning Reggie Miller for two more years, or resigning Brad Miller. Whatcha gonna do there? Can't let Uncle Reggie go...

Irk Woodsman

03-10-2008, 06:06 AM

Don't know how much it matters championship-wise, it wasn't until we let B. Miller go that we had the 61 win season and started looking like the team to beat, until Artest screwed everything up.

catzhernandez

03-10-2008, 06:13 AM

Don't know how much it matters championship-wise, it wasn't until we let B. Miller go that we had the 61 win season and started looking like the team to beat, until Artest screwed everything up.
I know, I know. But it's hard to make an argument that having Brad Mille rather than Scot Pollard that season would hinder our record in any way. If anything, I think that solidifies our frontcourt even more, allowing JO to matchup with smaller guys... blah, blah, blah... Anyways, I don't see how we don't possibly win 4 or 5 more games that season with a prime all star form Brad Miller who was getting 15/10/5 with a few triple doubles that year, I believe... I think we could have won the chip in 03-04, prebrawl. When injuries overtook us in the playoffs. JO would have been able to play less minutes during the regular season with Brad Miller out there. They meshed well together in the year and a half I saw them together.

Irk Woodsman

03-10-2008, 04:49 PM

Those were the days:ohwell:

jbot

03-10-2008, 07:02 PM

i dont know what we were thinking trading Brad Miller for Pollard and re-signing Croshere :hammerhead: should have re-signed Brad Miller and let Croshere go

it was a money issue. i don't think we had the funds to resign him. when we got pollard, he was supposed to be our starting center. he had kicked ass in SAC-town as a backup but he went kaput fast. that was one of our worst recent moves.