Best example of 'Twin Towers' working out?

[BigKAT]

Just thinking about recent times,

Dwight and Asik didn't work out,
Dwight and Pau didn't work out,
AD and Asik isn't working out,
Okafor and Noel is a terrible lineup, even in sixers standards

Now this is all recent, and I'm not asking for superstars, just wondering,

What instances do you recall that 'Twin Tower' lineups worked out? (Two seven footers, or 6'11. Basically playing two 'Centers' together.)

I wonder if it can even work if one of them isn't a Dirk Nowitzki type.

The only one that comes to mind is Tim Duncan and David Robinson but I assume there's plenty more I'm not too familier with. (Hakeem/Ralph?)

[Prime_Shaq]

Tim Duncan & David Robinson as you mentioned
Kevin McHale & Robert Parish
Pau Gasol & Andrew Bynum were somewhat successful when Bynum was able to stay on court
Ben Wallace & Rasheed Wallace?

What is your definition of working out though? Must the twin towers have won a championship or just had a few deep playoff runs together?

[Milbuck]

Pau and Marc savaged international bball for years, wish we could've seen them together in the NBA.

[BigKAT]

Tim Duncan & David Robinson as you mentioned
Kevin McHale & Robert Parish
Pau Gasol & Andrew Bynum were somewhat successful when Bynum was able to stay on court
Ben Wallace & Rasheed Wallace?

What is your definition of working out though? Must the twin towers have won a championship or just had a few deep playoff runs together?


Basically, be the best lineup on a good team.
Like, at most points in recent history that was not the case.
Asik and Davis aren't winning.
With Dwight and Pau they underachived.

Could be a mid tier team, just means that they are best when both their 'Towers' are on the floor.

[Prime_Shaq]

Basically, be the best lineup on a good team.
Like, at most points in recent history that was not the case.
Asik and Davis aren't winning.
With Dwight and Pau they underachived.

Could be a mid tier team, just means that they are best when both their 'Towers' are on the floor.
Yeah well there weren't that many successful ones besides Duncan/Robinson and McHale/Parish. Just realized you said 2 7-footers so the 2 Wallaces don't count :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Yea Pau and Bynum is another one. And Mchale and Parish were both thought of as centers by Red. Nene and Gortat were fine for a while. The Pistons started a combo of Laimbeer, Salley, Mahorn, and Edwards and the shortest of them was 6'10'' Mahorn who was a center once he left for Philly. Mahorn was also with Jeff Ruland earlier. You had PJ Brown and Zo....and once PJ was off the Heat he was the center on the Hornets with Elden Campbell at the 4/5. Elden was a center his whole career once he was no longer with Shaq. Speaking of which....Shaq and Elden in LA. And both he and PJ I think....were still Hornets with Jamal Magloire.

Oh and the 90s Pacers. Dale Davis and Antonio didnt exactly split time...but there was also Rik Smits. All 3 of them were centers when they made all star games. The Knicks started Cartwright and Ewing for like a year.

And the Rockets have done it a few times. Hakeem and Ralph of course...but Yao knocked Cato to the 4 when he got there and they both started one or two years.

Elvin Hayes is remembered as a 4....but only because after like 5 years as a center he went to the Bullets who already had Wes Unseld. Wes was only like 6'6'' so hes not a "tower" but he was most certainly a center.

Its not really that rare at all. Just depends on what you consider "working". If the standard is high levels of success.....most lineups didnt work.

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah well there weren't that many successful ones besides Duncan/Robinson and McHale/Parish. Just realized you said 2 7-footers so the 2 Wallaces don't count :oldlol:


Well if you look at it like that....Hakeem wasnt 7 feet either. Neither was Duncan. Still twin tower situations though.

I just look at it as two guys generally considered centers or who played a lot of it.

Zo was like 6'9''. Everyone considered him a center. If Zo played with Mutombo in the NBA(as he did in college) I think people would have called it a Twin Towers situation.

[Prime_Shaq]

Well if you look at it like that....Hakeem wasnt 7 feet either. Neither was Duncan. Still twin tower situations though.

I just look at it as two guys generally considered centers or who played a lot of it.

Zo was like 6'9''. Everyone considered him a center. If Zo played with Mutombo in the NBA(as he did in college) I think people would have called it a Twin Towers situation.
I understand what you mean, I'm just trying to fulfill OP's criteria

[Kblaze8855]

Understood. Wasnt so much arguing as trying to be clear.

Twin Towers is kinda hard to define as 2 seven footers when the most famous examples of it had guys who are 6'10'' or so and one of them played the 4 most of his career.

If its just being tall....Kevin Garnett and Michael Olowokandi, Ervin"Not Magic" Johnson, Rasho, Marc Blount and so on would count. But I chose not to mention them since KG wasnt a center till he was washed up.

[Nash]

nobody, having twin towers doesn't win you shit

[Kblaze8855]

What are you calling Dirk and Tyson Chandler? 7' and 7'2''....both still had all star years left in them. Tyson was still like 27 or 28. Hes not that old now....hes just been around forever.

That title run not count?

[Prime_Shaq]

nobody, having twin towers doesn't win you shit
1999? 2003?

[SCdac]

Two traditional, back-to-the-basket type bigs (regardless of height) playing together worked out for more than 4 decades...

[SCdac]

also, it's a common misnomer in basketball to think height = determined position

Charles Barkley is 6'6 and DeJuan Blair is 6'7 but they both played center in college

Magic was 6'9 and Penny was 6'7 but played mostly point guard

Bargnani at 7'0 came into the league shooting three's but was considered a center.. Even Dirk a "power" forward played alot like a SF or SG

etc, etc

[Bankaii]

All I know is the next big duo is Okafor/Embiid.
They won't play them together long because of minute restrictions, but from the little time they did there were no real problems I could see.
Both will have a solid inside/out game (Embiid more than Okafor obviously) and Embiid will be the anchor on D.

[pedromarinho]

Shaq and O'Neal. They were terrific.

[Rocketswin2013]

Asik and Dwight were two slow, unskilled centers.

I think in that year 2013, Duncan and Splitter were pretty fantastic. Both could play either PF/C. Both could pass, shoot, defend, and rebound.

Duncan was actually really, really good in 2012-13 in general.

[no pun intended]

Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan have great chemistry.

[BigKAT]

I'll clarify to make it easier.

When I say 'Twin Towers'
I don't mean necesserily two 7 footers.
But rather, two players who could/otherwise play Center, if not playing with each other. Basically two centers sharing the court.
I stated that 6'11, or 6'10 could also work, but not the 'Draymond green plays center' and such.

Someone mentioned Tim Duncan and Splitter. Yup, that seems like a great example of going big. But I don't really consider it a 'Twin Tower' lineup because Splitter wasn't really that big of a factor, when taken in the context of the entire starting five and roster.

When I say 'Twin Tower' I mean like, Hakeem and Ralph Sampson, where the team was built around two 'Centers', with one delegated to the PF spot.
Someone also mentioned Dirk and Tyson, which seems to me like the most successful run in recent time, one earning DPOY honors, and the other being an All-timer, I guess that's a great example of two bigs being dominant at the same time. (As opposed to Asik being a stopgap at the Center position in New Orleans.)


So yeah. Twin towers imo is the following
1. Both players must be prominent part of the team, the team should be built around them.

2. Both players should be natural centers, or at least real hybrids.

3. Removing the 'C' should immediatly make the 'PF' the obvious choice for Center. Get my drift? You remove Splitter, and Ducan slides up, with Diaw coming in as the PF. You remove Noel, and Okafor immediatly slides to C. etc,

So with all these in mind,
Does it seem to you that since the 90's, this attitude worked?
To me it seems like the Big-Wing(Shaq/Kobe, Amare, Nash) combo is far more common and successful.
Or the Wing-Guard. (Pippen/MJ, Lebron/Wade)

Same way I'm not sold Backcourt duos leading you to championships without a very strong presence on the frontcourt. (Don't say Klay/Curry because Draymond is arguebly the reason they could pull the Death lineup and beat the Cavs in the first place.)

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to clarify things I didn't clarify enough in the OP.

[SCdac]

"Powerforward" and "Center" are rough labels and a simple way of listing players. Shouldn't get too caught up in them imo. For most of basketball history, those positions sort of bled into each other and they shared qualities of each other. PF's through out most of BBall history could play in the post like centers but were generally more athletic and had better jumpers, but many Centers were athletic too and had solid mid range jumpers, so positions get fuzzy. A 'pure center' tends to be more of shot blocker. Doesn't necessarily mean All-Star or one of the best players, but who's to say they're not a big part of the team regardless? "Team built around them" is pretty vague imo. Tiago Splitter was a first round pick, was arguably the best big man overseas at the time, and helped the Spurs immensely once he gelled (he was way better than DeJuan Blair or Matt Bonner). Him and Rasho Nesterovic (who Spurs signed for a 6-year deal) were pure centers. Duncan won 5 championships alongside centers (Robinson x2, Rasho/Nazr Mohamed, Fabricio Oberto, and Splitter), I'd say he was the most successful in a traditional big man lineup of the last 20 years. Duncan sometimes shifted to center when playing with Malik Rose and Robert Horry but that wasn't full time. They also had other players move to center while TD retained his natural position. When SA signed Antonio McDyess, before Tiago joined, he said that he'd be playing center alongside Tim and it wasn't unusual for him.

[rmt]

Asik and Dwight were two slow, unskilled centers.

I think in that year 2013, Duncan and Splitter were pretty fantastic. Both could play either PF/C. Both could pass, shoot, defend, and rebound.

Duncan was actually really, really good in 2012-13 in general.

Don't know who you were watching but Splitter cannot play PF and he can't shoot. It's Duncan who could play both PF and C.

[GimmeThat]

you have 2 players on your team that can shoot over .500 for offensive purposes?

you do understand there are possessions where players are in offensive position and rebounding position right

you have any idea how crazy it is if those players get easy lay up on top of their .500 possessions?

[Clutch]

NBA is different than it used to be 20 years ago. Now it's all about shooting and spreading the floor. If you can't shoot, you can't win.
For example, Embiid and Davis duo could work. Dwight and DeAndre Jordan couldn't.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Omer and Dwight would've worked out if Asik wouldn't have gotten jealous of Dwight's star power. Asik was hating on Dwight as soon as he came to Houston. He was acting like an envious female in highschool, and Mchale forced him to come off the bench when he initially wanted him to start next to Dwight.

[MiseryCityTexas]

All Omer AssCheeks did was bitch an complain when Dwight came to Houston.

[Kblaze8855]

NBA is different than it used to be 20 years ago. Now it's all about shooting and spreading the floor. If you can't shoot, you can't win.
For example, Embiid and Davis duo could work. Dwight and DeAndre Jordan couldn't.

So this is your team....


Chris Paul
JJ Redick
Kevin Durant
Deandre
Dwight


Ryan Anderson
Trevor Ariza
George Hill
Cj Miles
John Henson
Delly
Doug McDermott
Sasha Vujacic

Coached by Pop.

What is your idea of "couldnt" work?

In the league we have....that wouldnt be a roster of unheard of talent.

Pop cant possibly get that team some success without benching Deandre or Dwight for Ryan Anderson? Just....coudnt manage it?

Ryan is gonna play 20+ minutes no matter what. You could small ball it with Durant at the 4 a lot of the time. Lot of lineups depending on the team.

Dwight and Deandre starting wouldnt mean they play the same 40 minutes. Hell Dwight only plays 29 minutes a game now.

You could easily shuffle it in such a way you start them both and they both get a lot of burn.

It would vary with the matchup but it wouldnt just....automatically make you a bad team.

There are nights that team would run you off the floor and the only thing to stop them would be hacking. But that would happen if you only had one of them anyway.

Coaches would need to tinker with the end of game lineups....but thats on every team. Coaches often out think themselves trying to adjust to every little thing. Pop leaving Duncan on the bench before Ray Allens big 3 comes to mind....

The right coach could make it work. If all they did was....not make the finals or something? Thats still working.

We kinda have to define success. The way it feels we are doing it....very few teams work.

[Clutch]

That team would be a legit championship contender, so yeah, not making the Finals would be a failure.

[Kblaze8855]

But is a failure the same as....couldnt possibly work?

What are the 800 other teams that failed to win?

Could they not possibly work...or did they just lose?

If this team lost....and another more traditionally built great team lost....you say this one couldnt win...and the other just lost?

[iamgine]

Twin towers hasn't been working since 2001.

[SouBeachTalents]

Twin towers hasn't been working since 2001.

Lol, knew there was gonna be a 9/11 joke, surprised it took as many comments as it did for it to happen doe

[Ben Simons]

Tim Duncan & David Robinson as you mentioned
Kevin McHale & Robert Parish
Pau Gasol & Andrew Bynum were somewhat successful when Bynum was able to stay on court
Ben Wallace & Rasheed Wallace?

What is your definition of working out though? Must the twin towers have won a championship or just had a few deep playoff runs together?
Don't forget Olajuwon and Ralph Sampson were another great duo that made it to the Finals. Sadly Sampson's career was cut short due to injury.

[Ben Simons]

Just thinking about recent times,

Dwight and Asik didn't work out,
Dwight and Pau didn't work out,
AD and Asik isn't working out,
Okafor and Noel is a terrible lineup, even in sixers standards

Now this is all recent, and I'm not asking for superstars, just wondering,

What instances do you recall that 'Twin Tower' lineups worked out? (Two seven footers, or 6'11. Basically playing two 'Centers' together.)

I wonder if it can even work if one of them isn't a Dirk Nowitzki type.

The only one that comes to mind is Tim Duncan and David Robinson but I assume there's plenty more I'm not too familier with. (Hakeem/Ralph?)
Most of these didn't work because of the talent either not being good enough or complimentary. Pau and Dwight is the only one that should work in theory.

[Rocketswin2013]

Don't know who you were watching but Splitter cannot play PF and he can't shoot. It's Duncan who could play both PF and C.
Mind telling me what Spitter was playing when both were on the court?

[rmt]

Mind telling me what Spitter was playing when both were on the court?

Splitter played C, and Duncan was the PF.

[Ben Simons]

Splitter played C, and Duncan was the PF.
This.

[DaHeezy]

Vlade Divac and Chris Webber
Rasheed Wallace and Arvydas Sabonis

[rmt]

Splitter played C, and Duncan was the PF.

Just like TD was PF when he played with DRob, Rasho, Nazr, Oberto, Elson, Kurt Thomas, DeJuan Blair, Mahinmi, Aron Baynes and Boban.

[houston]

77 Blazers

94 Rockets

03 Spurs

04 Pistons


Really the only examples of all-star duo C-PF clearly the team most impact players that won chips as a success. You see one was all-nba caliber big with another all-star quality big..