Hard foul on MJ

[KungFuJoe]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKWc5dEUE0Y

It's actually worse than it looks there. Xavier pushes MJ in the air while Ewing sticks his elbow out.

MJ doesn't flop or cry or try to get anyone ejected. He just goes straight at Xavier.

Players today wouldn't survive back then.

[CuhGetsBucks]

Lol damn yall love living in the past that shit is really toxic.

[Quickening]

How did he survive that collision, similar impact to a car crash!


:facepalm

[Smoke117]

lol right

[nathanjizzle]

nikka got tagged teamed double clotheslined and still made the bucket

[ClipperRevival]

One of MJ's trademark, alpha dog moments. That Knicks team just had some of the toughest enforcers ever in Oakley, McDaniel and Mason. Talk about tuff guys.

[egokiller]

Why are players of today so soft compared to players in the past?

[ClipperRevival]

Why are players of today so soft compared to players in the past?

It's mostly the rules. Players will be as physical as you let them be. The league has forced this soft mentality onto the players.

[egokiller]

It's mostly the rules. Players will be as physical as you let them be. The league has forced this soft mentality onto the players.

It's not just the rule of the league. On their way to the big stage they've been taught all their life that they are to be entitled. It's a flaw in the mindest of their generation in not being able to see that their parents were wrong for treating them like entitled, soft, everyone is a winner types.

[Showtime80']

There are a TON of reasons why the NBA is softer than tissue paper right now but the true main reason in my opinion is MONEY!!!!

I remember a quote by Metallica back from the mid 90's when they put out their Load album and why the deviation from their previous faster edgier style that brought them so much success and it basically said "It's hard to be angry when you have mansions with Olympic size swimming pools, sports cars, boats, jets etc..."

In today's NBA where even marginal players can get 6 to 8 million dollars a year with guaranteed contracts I think EVERYBODY and their mother has toned down their level of intensity two or three notches "except Westbrick of course" Borderline all-stars and supposed "stars" can make 100+ million just by having nice stats on loosing teams so basically nobody wants to get injured and limit their earning power. Why do you think today's players want a lighter schedule with no back to backs!?!? More time to spend their money and carouse with other NBA stars as nobody really hates each other any more.

Players are moving around more because of the money so their is no real loyalty to teams or fellow teammates any more, guys don't want to knock Curry or LeBron's head off because they might be playing WITH THEM in the near future!!!

Rule changes and cultural shifts have also had their influence but the excess money has definitely brought a level of complacency and general apathy that has clearly spilled over into the actual competition.

[Proctor]

There are a TON of reasons why the NBA is softer than tissue paper right now but the true main reason in my opinion is MONEY!!!!

I remember a quote by Metallica back from the mid 90's when they put out their Load album and why the deviation from their previous faster edgier style that brought them so much success and it basically said "It's hard to be angry when you have mansions with Olympic size swimming pools, sports cars, boats, jets etc..."

In today's NBA where even marginal players can get 6 to 8 million dollars a year with guaranteed contracts I think EVERYBODY and their mother has toned down their level of intensity two or three notches "except Westbrick of course" Borderline all-stars and supposed "stars" can make 100+ million just by having nice stats on loosing teams so basically nobody wants to get injured and limit their earning power. Why do you think today's players want a lighter schedule with no back to backs!?!? More time to spend their money and carouse with other NBA stars as nobody really hates each other any more.

Players are moving around more because of the money so their is no real loyalty to teams or fellow teammates any more, guys don't want to knock Curry or LeBron's head off because they might be playing WITH THEM in the near future!!!

Rule changes and cultural shifts have also had their influence but the excess money has definitely brought a level of complacency and general apathy that has clearly spilled over into the actual competition.
Great point. :cheers:

[KungFuJoe]

Can you imagine if Lebron took that hit?

How long would he be on the ground for? 15 minutes? Would he need to be carried off the court?

I'm thinking 15 minutes and a stretcher. Following by immediately holding a press conference wearing a neck brace calling for the removal of McDaniels and Ewing from the league. Or at least suspended until the next year.

[Hey Yo]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKWc5dEUE0Y

It's actually worse than it looks there. Xavier pushes MJ in the air while Ewing sticks his elbow out.
Of course it was......:rolleyes:


MJ doesn't flop or cry or try to get anyone ejected. He just goes straight at Xavier.
MJ's the reason why the flagrant foul was implimented into the rules. He cried to Stern about Detroit's defense.


Players today wouldn't survive back then.
DUMB

[CuhGetsBucks]

There are a TON of reasons why the NBA is softer than tissue paper right now but the true main reason in my opinion is MONEY!!!!

I remember a quote by Metallica back from the mid 90's when they put out their Load album and why the deviation from their previous faster edgier style that brought them so much success and it basically said "It's hard to be angry when you have mansions with Olympic size swimming pools, sports cars, boats, jets etc..."

In today's NBA where even marginal players can get 6 to 8 million dollars a year with guaranteed contracts I think EVERYBODY and their mother has toned down their level of intensity two or three notches "except Westbrick of course" Borderline all-stars and supposed "stars" can make 100+ million just by having nice stats on loosing teams so basically nobody wants to get injured and limit their earning power. Why do you think today's players want a lighter schedule with no back to backs!?!? More time to spend their money and carouse with other NBA stars as nobody really hates each other any more.

Players are moving around more because of the money so their is no real loyalty to teams or fellow teammates any more, guys don't want to knock Curry or LeBron's head off because they might be playing WITH THEM in the near future!!!

Rule changes and cultural shifts have also had their influence but the excess money has definitely brought a level of complacency and general apathy that has clearly spilled over into the actual competition.
You only comment to type lengthy rants about the game now. Idk if you're or not but it geeks :oldlol:

[Fire Colangelo]

Did I miss something?


What hard foul...?

[FKAri]

lol @ them Knicks falling like pinballs :lol

[3ball]

lol @ them Knicks falling like pinballs :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98q9I0El1oM&t=1m09s

[KungFuJoe]

MJ's the reason why the flagrant foul was implimented into the rules. He cried to Stern about Detroit's defense.


And you're saying the Pistons didn't purposely try to hurt Jordan?

"The other rule was, any time he went by you, you had to nail him. If he was coming off a screen, nail him. We didn't want to be dirty

[Showtime80']

Here's Kobe basically saying the same thing a few years ago while he was STILL PLAYING:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVKvWyXbzKk&t=64s

The league didn't change the rules in 1991 for Michael Jordan or any other superstar, they changed them because of their shinny new contract with NBC and the new mainstream direction the sport had taken!!! EVERYBODY under sun complained about the Pistons hard fouls since 1987 and before them the Celtics were also very physical. The 1992 series between the Knicks and Bulls was probably just as physical as there had been under the Bad Boy reign as the refs were still trying to figure out the difference between flagrant versus regular foul.

The Bulls took the Pistons to 5, 6 and 7 games in consecutive years from 88 to 90 and by 1991 they were ready to leap over them, flagrant foul rules or not. You could make the case that Isiah's wrist injury that cost him 30+ plus games and possibly home court advantage for Detroit had more to do with that than any rule changes.

[Hey Yo]

And you're saying the Pistons didn't purposely try to hurt Jordan?

"The other rule was, any time he went by you, you had to nail him. If he was coming off a screen, nail him. We didn't want to be dirty—I know some people thought we were—but we had to make contact and be very physical."

I don't know about you but when you talk about "nailing" someone on the court, that sounds dirty to me.
No, I'm saying he cried to Stern. Then Stern listened to his cash cow and implemented a new rule to where you couldn't breath on MJ without a foul being called.


Earlier this year, Tim Donaghy interviewed by Colin Cowherd.

Cowherd: “…The better athletes got the better calls, because they were always in better situations, and the inferior players were always a step behind. What do you say about the star player treatment? Did you find yourself in games sometimes giving the big-name guy the better calls?”


Donaghy: “Absolutely. I’ll never forget coming up, I was a younger referee and I was refereeing with Jess Kersey. I missed a call on Michael Jordan, and basically, Jess pulled me aside. He said, ‘Hey, listen. If Michael Jordan misses a shot going to the basket, just blow the whistle, because most likely 99% of the time he got fouled. And you’re going to get a lot of heat if you miss a foul against him.”

http://www.thesportsbank.net/bulls/tim-donaghy-michael-jordan-preferential-treatment/

[antonAC]

yeah, it's such a shame that the leagues rules allow players with talent to prosper, what I really want to see is Bogut, Green and Adams knocking the shit out of players, not actual basketball skill.

[aj1987]

God damn! Didn't he break like 6 ribs, bruise his kidney, and tear his ACL on that ridiculously hard foul? IIRC, he went on to finish that game as well! :eek: :eek:

[Overdrive]

Can you imagine if Lebron took that hit?

How long would he be on the ground for? 15 minutes? Would he need to be carried off the court?

I'm thinking 15 minutes and a stretcher. Following by immediately holding a press conference wearing a neck brace calling for the removal of McDaniels and Ewing from the league. Or at least suspended until the next year.

The foul on him at the end of G7 this year was way worse. He got flipped midair..

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol damn yall love living in the past that shit is really toxic.

for real

some light push has these Laker turds saying "players wouldnt survive back then, he didnt even cry about it!" lmao :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

Really that soft ass foul, how did survive?!:oldlol:
Lebron takes that kind of contact every time someone intentionally fouls him when he drives.

[KungFuJoe]

Really that soft ass foul, how did survive?!:oldlol:
Lebron takes that kind of contact every time someone intentionally fouls him when he drives.

That was no soft ass foul. He got shoved in the back, while in the air, by Xavier and right into Ewing's elbow. His body and head snapped back pretty badly.

And it's more about Jordan's killer attitude...after that foul he didn't wince or cry or flop. He went right at Xavier. Like a true bad ass.

Man Lebron would STILL be on the ground today if he took that foul back then.

[Showtime80']

Here's the rest of the 92 and 93 series vs Knicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28y59DjqVvs

Look at some of the clothesline fouls the Knicks were routinely handing out, the trash talking and just the general lack for the wellbeing of the opponent. Not a lot flagrant foul rules being called even with the new rules and even then there were NO SUSPENSIONS!

The frontline of Ewing, Mason, Oakley and McDaniel with the 1992 rules would break guys like Curry, Thompson, Durant, Harden and Westbrick IN HALF!!!!

That's one of the reasons Michael was so great, he ROSE OVER THE PHYSICAL PLAY and kept coming for more!

[Showtime80']

Flops in those days meant WEAKNESS! Today is part of the culture and LeBron leads the way with those!

[aj1987]

Flops in those days meant WEAKNESS! Today is part of the culture and LeBron leads the way with those!
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you ****ing kidding me right now? Have you heard of this dude called Reggie Miller?

[KungFuJoe]

And Lebron is physically bigger and stronger than most of the people he goes up against. Jordan was 6'6", 210...getting hammered left and right...never backed down and always came back even stronger.

Just makes you appreciate the GOAT even more.

[tpols]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you ****ing kidding me right now? Have you heard of this dude called Reggie Miller?

Reggie was a second tier star.. And a twig. He had to do that just to compete with guys better than himself (like Jordan).

The stars like MJ barkley Malone Scottie etc didnt pull that shit like wade and bron used to.. Which is even more embarrassing given their strength and size.

[plowking]

lol the game has never been better than it is today.

Do we really need to pull newspaper clippings of Jordan complaining about Detroit and the Knicks? lol...

[Hey Yo]

Flops in those days meant WEAKNESS! Today is part of the culture and LeBron leads the way with those!
So you're saying that Laimbeer and Rodman of the 80's Bad Boys were weak motherf*ckers?

[dazzer87]

Today player..............


http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/e5jgdp.gif

[Hey Yo]

Today player.....for the FMVP






https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/8b/d8/1a/8bd81a50eb70b4f479f5a77d891c133d.jpg







WITNESS!

[egokiller]

Here's the rest of the 92 and 93 series vs Knicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28y59DjqVvs

Look at some of the clothesline fouls the Knicks were routinely handing out, the trash talking and just the general lack for the wellbeing of the opponent. Not a lot flagrant foul rules being called even with the new rules and even then there were NO SUSPENSIONS!

The frontline of Ewing, Mason, Oakley and McDaniel with the 1992 rules would break guys like Curry, Thompson, Durant, Harden and Westbrick IN HALF!!!!

That's one of the reasons Michael was so great, he ROSE OVER THE PHYSICAL PLAY and kept coming for more!

What else were they suppose to do? They couldn't play straight up with out being overly phsycial because he was just that much better than them.

Again, everything is about situations and capitalizing on them. MJ was placed in a situation where he had to overcome more physical play. Since the game has changed and now has less physical play, it just makes it all that much more difficult for players to showcase that they can measure up to him based on today's rules.

The generation that watched MJ's era respects the players of that era more so that the players of today. There were actual rivalries and we got to watch actual basketball, not a bitch fest. The only ones who disagree and think that today's ball is better are those poor unfortunate souls that never got to watch MJ era ball.

Who's opinion has more value? The fan that saw both eras or only saw current era?

[Da_Realist]

Here's the rest of the 92 and 93 series vs Knicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28y59DjqVvs

Look at some of the clothesline fouls the Knicks were routinely handing out, the trash talking and just the general lack for the wellbeing of the opponent. Not a lot flagrant foul rules being called even with the new rules and even then there were NO SUSPENSIONS!

The frontline of Ewing, Mason, Oakley and McDaniel with the 1992 rules would break guys like Curry, Thompson, Durant, Harden and Westbrick IN HALF!!!!

That's one of the reasons Michael was so great, he ROSE OVER THE PHYSICAL PLAY and kept coming for more!

Truth. The physical play is what made it compelling to watch. To see a guy use skill and intelligence to overcome the physicality was beautiful to watch and it made accomplishments more respectable. To score 30 against a team knocking you down on every play is more impressive than scoring 30 when you're allowed to swoop into the lane untouched.

Physical play took the punk out of dudes. Stars had to come out focused against enforcers like Oakley, Mahorn and Antonio Davis. And that was before they even got to Ewing, Mutombo and Olajuwon. Manhood was on the line every game in front of millions watching. The playoffs were like blacktop basketball. Today's game is more like flag football. Or a Harlem Globetrotters game.

You get elbowed in the face and thrown to the ground? Back then it was "Get up and play ball!". Now the refs will say, "Awww, does your wittle tummy hurt? Foul on the big meanie. Here, let me help you to the free throw line...". All the flopping to the ground on minimal contact makes them look like punks.

[Pointguard]

Here's the rest of the 92 and 93 series vs Knicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28y59DjqVvs

Look at some of the clothesline fouls the Knicks were routinely handing out, the trash talking and just the general lack for the wellbeing of the opponent. Not a lot flagrant foul rules being called even with the new rules and even then there were NO SUSPENSIONS!

The frontline of Ewing, Mason, Oakley and McDaniel with the 1992 rules would break guys like Curry, Thompson, Durant, Harden and Westbrick IN HALF!!!!

That's one of the reasons Michael was so great, he ROSE OVER THE PHYSICAL PLAY and kept coming for more!
My Knicks were a football team, I don't know who brought the round ball to the party. You could hear the fouls on Jordan's arms at the games. That guy was tough as nails. We loved him and hated him at the same time.

[3ball]

lol the game has never been better than it is today.


Nonsense - it's too easy to make great plays in today's game, due to the spacing, lack of physicality and hands off defense..

these things allow "great" plays to occur on every play, which means they arent really "great" at all.

I dont need immediate gratification on every play.. i prefer the days when you had to WAIT for great plays, like real sports soccer or baseball.. in previous eras, the lack of spacing, physicality and also legal hand checking and paint camping made great plays harder to come by.

So no, i have no interest in todays kiddy game that makes "great" plays easy.. trix are for kids, so you guys enjoy

[NZStreetBaller]

Why are players of today so soft compared to players in the past?

Fouls = points
Points = victories

Theyre not soft theyre just tryna milk it to win games. Its like when a sibling pretends tp be severly hurt from the other sibling to get them in trouble from the parent. However when parents dont give a shit the child wont milk anything.

[ClipperRevival]

Truth. The physical play is what made it compelling to watch. To see a guy use skill and intelligence to overcome the physicality was beautiful to watch and it made accomplishments more respectable. To score 30 against a team knocking you down on every play is more impressive than scoring 30 when you're allowed to swoop into the lane untouched.

Physical play took the punk out of dudes. Stars had to come out focused against enforcers like Oakley, Mahorn and Antonio Davis. And that was before they even got to Ewing, Mutombo and Olajuwon. Manhood was on the line every game in front of millions watching. The playoffs were like blacktop basketball. Today's game is more like flag football. Or a Harlem Globetrotters game.

You get elbowed in the face and thrown to the ground? Back then it was "Get up and play ball!". Now the refs will say, "Awww, does your wittle tummy hurt? Foul on the big meanie. Here, let me help you to the free throw line...". All the flopping to the ground on minimal contact makes them look like punks.

Good stuff. Just a different time with different rules and different expectations. Hard fouls were part of the game. That meant you get hit a bit harder than you should, you call foul and come get some more. It was a measure of character and toughness.

[ClipperRevival]

My Knicks were a football team, I don't know who brought the round ball to the party. You could hear the fouls on Jordan's arms at the games. That guy was tough as nails. We loved him and hated him at the same time.

Props. :applause:

[KungFuJoe]

This guy is the worst.

https://youtu.be/x6F508vF7o8

[Nikola_]

second mjay exited the league it was no more mens game

today = buddy game

[MrFonzworth]

yeah, it's such a shame that the leagues rules allow players with talent to prosper, what I really want to see is Bogut, Green and Adams knocking the shit out of players, not actual basketball skill.

this.

[pauk]

Can you imagine if Lebron took that hit?

How long would he be on the ground for? 15 minutes? Would he need to be carried off the court?

I'm thinking 15 minutes and a stretcher. Following by immediately holding a press conference wearing a neck brace calling for the removal of McDaniels and Ewing from the league. Or at least suspended until the next year.

Although i do agree the league is softer (it really is, i am a 90s kid, seen it all) it hasnt helped Lebron, i have seen him recieve just as many & if not more hard fouls than Jordan... as far as the reactions after getting hit, its different only because of the rules, i mean you cant even stare at somebody without getting T'ed up better yet get into some altercation... you cant do anything, even if its good, like giving the opponents the ball after the ball went through the net, you must just leave it there... "impeding the game"...

[NBAGOAT]

What else were they suppose to do? They couldn't play straight up with out being overly phsycial because he was just that much better than them.

Again, everything is about situations and capitalizing on them. MJ was placed in a situation where he had to overcome more physical play. Since the game has changed and now has less physical play, it just makes it all that much more difficult for players to showcase that they can measure up to him based on today's rules.

The generation that watched MJ's era respects the players of that era more so that the players of today. There were actual rivalries and we got to watch actual basketball, not a bitch fest. The only ones who disagree and think that today's ball is better are those poor unfortunate souls that never got to watch MJ era ball.

Who's opinion has more value? The fan that saw both eras or only saw current era?

I am sure there are some people out there who think the current era is better than the 90's and have watched both. They are less motivated to voice their opinion than most of the older dudes who commented on this thread however because why would you want to shit on an era you grew up with and have a soft spot for. I'm younger and grew up with 2000's ball but I have np admitting the the current era is better than the early/mid 2000's. I don't feel the need to bring that up very often however since I definitely liked that era still and it's what I grew up with.

[f0und]

back then, it was a man's game. now, its a millenial's game, filled with p*ssies, entitled whiners, and SJWs.

[egokiller]

I am sure there are some people out there who think the current era is better than the 90's and have watched both. They are less motivated to voice their opinion than most of the older dudes who commented on this thread however because why would you want to shit on an era you grew up with and have a soft spot for. I'm younger and grew up with 2000's ball but I have np admitting the the current era is better than the early/mid 2000's. I don't feel the need to bring that up very often however since I definitely liked that era still and it's what I grew up with.

I doesn't really have anything to do with what era you grew up in. The people that grew up in MJ era are the same people that have to watch current ball. If current ball was better accross the board, the majority of them would have no problem saying as such. Some things have improved, but so much of what make it great is lost.


back then, it was a man's game. now, its a millenial's game, filled with p*ssies, entitled whiners, and SJWs.

A big part of millenials mostly being soft entitled pvssies has to do with shitty parenting. Still there is such a thing as self awareness and some of these guys have managed to break free of the bullshit and go on to live a correct life.

[Showtime80']

I think another reason why the NBA wanted to eliminate the excess physical contact was the hip-hop/gangsta culture that took hold of the league in the mid 90's to early 2000's . A lot of players started bringing guns and hanging around 10+ deep entourages from their old neighborhoods thus the "I'll see you after the game" culture was dangerously close to creeping up on the league.

In the 80's to early 90's and before the physical nature of the game was a sort of gladiator combat where not only did you have to be strong physically but MENTALLY as well. You hit each other with everything you had for 48 minutes and after that tap your opponent on the back and say "See you next game". A gentlemen's duel if you will.

Watching Michael and to a certain degree Scottie take the Knicks MIND AND SOUL was a thing of beauty! Can you imagine the bewilderment they would cause to mental midgets like Westbrick, Cousins or Harden!?!?!

At the other end I can't see fragile current small players like Curry and Lillard survive the assault the Knicks put on the Bulls.

The modern players should send David Stern a Christmas card every year for eradicating that style of play!

[tpols]

I think another reason why the NBA wanted to eliminate the excess physical contact was the hip-hop/gangsta culture that took hold of the league in the mid 90's to early 2000's . A lot of players started bringing guns and hanging around 10+ deep entourages from their old neighborhoods thus the "I'll see you after the game" culture was dangerously close to creeping up on the league.

In the 80's to early 90's and before the physical nature of the game was a sort of gladiator combat where not only did you have to be strong physically but MENTALLY as well. You hit each other with everything you had for 48 minutes and after that tap your opponent on the back and say "See you next game". A gentlemen's duel if you will.

Watching Michael and to a certain degree Scottie take the Knicks MIND AND SOUL was a thing of beauty! Can you imagine the bewilderment they would cause to mental midgets like Westbrick, Cousins or Harden!?!?!

At the other end I can't see fragile current small players like Curry and Lillard survive the assault the Knicks put on the Bulls.

The modern players should send David Stern a Christmas card every year for eradicating that style of play!


correct me if im wrong but didnt players back in the 70s and 80s have guns too ? i remember hearing some real shady accounts of guys back then threatening each other with guns.. pretty sure Bill Russell used to carry a pistol on his person frequently.. that era was also peak violence in cities.. way more than 00s. this theory might not hold up.

[Showtime80']

Little difference you fail to mention tpols,

The NBA in the late 70's was a dying league which was virtually non-existent in the TV landscape and basically had turned into a niche sport by the end of the decade. It was perceived and too black and drugged out for the mainstream audience. If players would've started blowing each other's heads off in the parking lot after games, the league would've folded and nobody would've gave a damn! Still there were NEVER any major locker room or after the game incidents involving weapons.

Fast forward to the mid 90's, the NBA is a GLOBAL BRAND with their stars being some of the most recognizable athletes in the WORLD! This along with major TV audiences and merchandising in general while also being a hit with the younger demographic (gold in American commerce) and still carrying a steady older fan base thanks to the 80's Golden Generation of Magic/Bird. The salaries were skyrocketing and revenue was climbing steadily as well.

What league would have more to loose by being associated with violence in and out of the playing field?!?!