The case for Derrick Rose to the Allstar

[PeroAntic]

ok so its a consensus by now he ain't going to compete for MVP.

But is he also out of the allstar competition? Lets see the competition.

Derozan, Irving and Thomas are certain to be there. Kemba Walker too if he maintains current production.

So presumably for the last guard position we have Wall, Lowry, Wade and Rose.

Wall's numbers are good enough for the allstar, but Wizards have a horrible record.
Lowry is not playing better than Rose this season. (39% fg)
Wade is more or less the same as Rose, doubt he gets any better as the season progresses.

Who else is there? Reggie Jackson is injured, Dragic and Lin have poor record with their teams and Schroder is a joke.

So if DRose keeps improving for the Knicks and they go up the table, he might very well make it:rockon:

[nathanjizzle]

if the knicks can keep winning then rose has a good chance to make the allstar team. if the knicks stay mediocre at .500, i doubt he will make it.

[AirBonner]

Avery Bradley is much better. There is no case for Rose.

[TiagoSimoes]

16/4/5 on 44/29/88. it would be a joke if he made it

[PeroAntic]

Avery Bradley is much better. There is no case for Rose.
Avery Bradley is not going to keep up this pace. his stats are inflated, 8 rpg for a 6'2 guard? please.

It does depend on team success. Cavs are #1 in the east, after them its an open field.

[jrjim]

seriously? 16/5/4 on 50TS% on a mediocre (at best) lower seed team is not an all-star. DD/IT/Kyrie/Kemba/Wade or Butler/Lowry, and there's probably 5 or 6 more guards who are playing better than him

[AirBonner]

Avery Bradley is not going to keep up this pace. his stats are inflated, 8 rpg for a 6'2 guard? please.

It does depend on team success. Cavs are #1 in the east, after them its an open field.
His shooting will remain the same. Rebounds will decline a little. Rose doesn't have shit on him keep dreaming.

[PeroAntic]

16/4/5 on 44/29/88. it would be a joke if he made it
Joe Johnson did it in 2014 with worse stats. Its the East.

Also its not only stats, but actual impact on game, ex. clutch. Rose doesn't chuck anymore, hes #3 scoring option in the team after Melo and Zingis. Its normal that he will not average 20+

[jrjim]

Joe Johnson did it in 2014 with worse stats. Its the East.

Also its not only stats, but actual impact on game, ex. clutch. Rose doesn't chuck anymore, hes #3 scoring option in the team after Melo and Zingis.

Theres a lot more guard competition. What case does he have over Lowry, who himself probably wont make it this year? Or Wade?

[PeroAntic]

Theres a lot more guard competition. What case does he have over Lowry, who himself probably wont make it this year? Or Wade?
On comparable stats, I'd take Rose for entertainment value/aesthetics + intangibles (clutch, driving to the rim, drawing attention from opposition etc.)

And stats are comparable between them. OP makes the case pretty clear.

[BigKAT]

So Butler is on a Foward slot this year?

[AirBonner]

18/3/8 on 46/38/73 Avery is better.

[PeroAntic]

So Butler is on a Foward slot this year?
Plays SF for Bulls so yeah...

[jrjim]

On comparable stats, I'd take Rose for entertainment value/aesthetics + intangibles (clutch, driving to the rim, drawing attention from opposition etc.)

And stats are comparable between them. OP makes the case pretty clear.

lol, stats arent comparable. Both Lowry/Butler are playing better as the 2nd best players on better teams. Rose has no case (and thats not even bringing up a guy like Kemba walker)

[PeroAntic]

18/3/8 on 46/38/73 Avery is better.
He will regress towards the mean, while Rose will get better (hes in a new team). Add style + clutch = advantage DRose.

[PeroAntic]

lol, stats arent comparable. Both Lowry/Butler are playing better as the 2nd best players on better teams. Rose has no case (and thats not even bringing up a guy like Kemba walker)
Dude. Lowry isn't playing better.

Anyway time will tell

[AirBonner]

He will regress towards the mean, while Rose will get better (hes in a new team). Add style + clutch = advantage DRose.
He is not going to regress you idiot. Avery is better at shooting and defense. A better player. Also your argument of clutch over Avery is laughable. Please study up on players before making autistic claims.

[jrjim]

Dude. Lowry isn't playing better.

Anyway time will tell

Lowry's averaging more points, more assists, more rebounds, shooting better, playing better defense on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?

Kemba is literally playing like a top 10 player in the league (prolly wont last), but his start vs Rose's all but guarantees he'll have better numbers at the all-star break, and is on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?

[AirBonner]

Lowry's averaging more points, more assists, more rebounds, shooting better, playing better defense on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?

Kemba is literally playing like a top 10 player in the league (prolly wont last), but his start vs Rose's all but guarantees he'll have better numbers at the all-star break, and is on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?
Its pointless man this guy is a ****ing idiot

[jrjim]

Its pointless man this guy is a ****ing idiot

He keeps talking about Rose upping his game too. LOL, dude is the exact same player he was last year, except he's shooting mildly less terrible

[PeroAntic]

Lowry's averaging more points, more assists, more rebounds, shooting better, playing better defense on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?

Kemba is literally playing like a top 10 player in the league (prolly wont last), but his start vs Rose's all but guarantees he'll have better numbers at the all-star break, and is on a better team. And you think Rose has a case over him?
Where did you see that I say Rose has a case over Kemba Walker? Are you illiterate or just have ADD?

I guess its the former since you also believe Lowry is shooting better when hes on 39% compared to Rose 44%.

I do believe Lowry will shoot better as time goes, but Rose's stats will also go up as he gels more with the new team.

btw Rose post all star form last year (after overcoming double vision) was all star worthy. And he had niggles throughout, which he doesn't have this year.

Rose haters are really a joke. Avery ****ing Bradley, srsly. You dont go to the allstar for being a better defender. only thing he got over Rose

[DMAVS41]

Where did you see that I say Rose has a case over Kemba Walker? Are you illiterate or just have ADD?

I guess its the former since you also believe Lowry is shooting better when hes on 39% compared to Rose 44%.

I do believe Lowry will shoot better as time goes, but Rose's stats will also go up as he gels more with the new team.

btw Rose post all star form last year (after overcoming double vision) was all star worthy. And he had niggles throughout, which he doesn't have this year.

Rose haters are really a joke. Avery ****ing Bradley, srsly. You dont go to the allstar for being a better defender. only thing he got over Rose


Rose is currently shooting 50%TS and is a negative on every advanced metric I've seen. He isn't a good defender anymore either.

His team is not performing well either....500 record in the East with the kind of roster the Knicks have around him?


There is no case for him as an all star at this point.

[PeroAntic]

Rose is currently shooting 50%TS and is a negative on every advanced metric I've seen. He isn't a good defender anymore either.

His team is not performing well either....500 record in the East with the kind of roster the Knicks have around him?


There is no case for him as an all star at this point.
Marc Gasol and Draymond Green are also on 50%TS. TS not everything.

As for the Knicks, after the Cavs, everybody on the east are around .500, its going to be interesting.

DRose has his bounce back, hes contributing to the team and gets crowd off their feet. Hes got a realistic chance in this competition. Hes almost there. and hes never been a great defender, but he does lead all pgs in blocks, and when he sets his mind to locking down someone, he does it. Schroder was 0/8 against him a couple days ago

[DMAVS41]

Marc Gasol and Draymond Green are also on 50%TS. TS not everything.

As for the Knicks, after the Cavs, everybody on the east are around .500, its going to be interesting.

Never said it was everything...straw man.

It is, however, more important for a shoot first guard that isn't a good defender than it is for two of the better defensive players in the game...

[TiagoSimoes]

Like DMAVS41 said, rose's advanced stats are trash, and his boxscore stats are below average for an all-star.

His boxscore +- are negative, both offensive and defensive, his winshares are very close to 0 in total, his TS is 50%, 15 PER(not impressive at all), turns it over way too much for his scoring and playmaking production, and to make his shooting ineffective even worse, he cant get to the line for easy points.

Stats arent everything, but pretty much every stat u can find points him to be an average player, nothing close to an all-star, he literally has no case.

His fans just need to understand that sadly Rose isnt the same player anymore, and isnt close to the best PGs in the league. Bradley, Kemba, Butler(if he counts as a guard), Wade, Wall and Giannis(he is playing PG) are all having better seasons.

[jrjim]

Where did you see that I say Rose has a case over Kemba Walker? Are you illiterate or just have ADD?

I guess its the former since you also believe Lowry is shooting better when hes on 39% compared to Rose 44%.

I do believe Lowry will shoot better as time goes, but Rose's stats will also go up as he gels more with the new team.

btw Rose post all star form last year (after overcoming double vision) was all star worthy. And he had niggles throughout, which he doesn't have this year.

Rose haters are really a joke. Avery ****ing Bradley, srsly. You dont go to the allstar for being a better defender. only thing he got over Rose

Avery Bradley is a better scorer than Derrick Rose, lmao. And Lowry's TS% is better. Rose's stats going up is what every Bulls fans thought would happen; if it hasnt happened yet, why will it happen now?

[DMAVS41]

Like DMAVS41 said, rose's advanced stats are trash, and his boxscore stats are below average for an all-star.

His boxscore +- are negative, both offensive and defensive, his winshares are very close to 0 in total, his TS is 50%, 15 PER(not impressive at all), turns it over way too much for his scoring and playmaking production, and to make his shooting ineffective even worse, he cant get to the line for easy points.

Stats arent everything, but pretty much every stat u can find points him to be an average player, nothing close to an all-star, he literally has no case.

His fans just need to understand that sadly Rose isnt the same player anymore, and isnt close to the best PGs in the league. Bradley, Kemba, Butler(if he counts as a guard), Wade, Wall and Giannis(he is playing PG) are all having better seasons.

Yep.

I actually think Rose's stats are worse than his true impact so far. I think he's played pretty well overall given the circumstances.

However, that doesn't make him an all-star. He's been, at best, an average offensive player so far...and he's probably been a below average player on defense so far. At least that is what I've seen in the handful of games I've watched and the stats line up.

So when a player is about average on offense, below average on defense, is at best the 3rd best player on a team that is underperforming...LOL...you aren't an all-star.

Now, things can change...but at this point...he has no case.

[TiagoSimoes]

Yep.

I actually think Rose's stats are worse than his true impact so far. I think he's played pretty well overall given the circumstances.

However, that doesn't make him an all-star. He's been, at best, an average offensive player so far...and he's probably been a below average player on defense so far. At least that is what I've seen in the handful of games I've watched and the stats line up.

So when a player is about average on offense, below average on defense, is at best the 3rd best player on a team that is underperforming...LOL...you aren't an all-star.

Now, things can change...but at this point...he has no case.

Yeah im not trying to say that he sucks or anything, but he definetly doesnt have a case as an All-Star.

He doesnt really play winning basketball, and needs to find a way to be more effective

[PeroAntic]

I actually think Rose's stats are worse than his true impact so far. I think he's played pretty well overall given the circumstances.
Exactly.

Rose's stats right now are deceiving from his true impact. Even advanced stats.

IMHO, Rose was never about stats. I'm not bothered to look for advanced stats from his MVP season, but I do recall they were nothing out of the ordinary. His ppg, apg, fg stats from that season are matched by Lillard from last year (Lillard probably better).

Yet Lillard didnt even make the allstar and barely made it to 2nd all nba. Two reasons for this discrepancy:
1. Rose has a uniquely spectacular style of play. Thats why he won MVP not because his stats were so good.
2. Context/competition. Dame could have won MVP with his 15-16 production, but there were too many ahead of him. For the allstar, in the East, there are not that many ahead of Rose. Four are clearly better (DD, Kemba, Kyrie, IT).

For the rest of them, (Rose, Wall, Wade, Lowry, Bradley) its a tossup that will be decided by team performance. And the East is pretty open.

[Proctor]

The only thing this thread argues is that maybe he's a tad underrated and that he does more for the Knicks than meets the eye.

He's not even close to an all-star candidate. No argument. The Knicks aren't good, and if they had anyone representing them it would be Carmelo because that's how the fans would vote. And we certainly know the Knicks aren't good enough to warrant two representatives.

[Pointguard]

Because Porzingus and Mello are going to the all star game Rose isn't likely to make it unless they go crazy and win at an 80% clip til the voting ends.

[TiagoSimoes]

Exactly.

Rose's stats right now are deceiving from his true impact. Even advanced stats.

IMHO, Rose was never about stats. I'm not bothered to look for advanced stats from his MVP season, but I do recall they were nothing out of the ordinary. His ppg, apg, fg stats from that season are matched by Lillard from last year (Lillard probably better).

Yet Lillard didnt even make the allstar and barely made it to 2nd all nba. Two reasons for this discrepancy:
1. Rose has a uniquely spectacular style of play. Thats why he won MVP not because his stats were so good.
2. Context/competition. Dame could have won MVP with his 15-16 production, but there were too many ahead of him. For the allstar, in the East, there are not that many ahead of Rose. Four are clearly better (DD, Kemba, Kyrie, IT).

For the rest of them, (Rose, Wall, Wade, Lowry, Bradley) its a tossup that will be decided by team performance. And the East is pretty open.

Spectacularity is good from a viewer stand point, but it really doesnt matter in terms of playing good basketball. It really isnt a toss-up, he has no case. And i didnt even mention the fact that he is the 3rd best player for a 7-7. No chance.

About Rose's advanced stats, while ur correct that he never was a big player on those(like a KD/LBJ/CP3 who are and were better players), he still had a pretty great year on most metrics you can find.

Since his injuries, his WS dropped to close to 0, his boxscore stats are a clear negative when he was a very clear positive before, and pretty much every other stats back it up.

He simply isnt great anymore. No need to deny the reality.

[Smoke117]

There is no case.

[theaussieguy]

Rose is goddam trash lmao

[bluechox2]

no thank you...please dont get selected to the allstar game...all it will do is drive up his price tag....

[TiagoSimoes]

no thank you...please dont get selected to the allstar game...all it will do is drive up his price tag....

And this is why the Knicks will remain mediocre. You actually want to keep Rose :lol

[Sarcastic]

I've watched every Knick game so far. He's not an All Star as of now.

However in the last game vs Portland, he started to look similar to his old self. His decision making was much better. If he can continue that level of play, he may have a claim as a reserve.

[PeroAntic]

Clutch.