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View Full Version : Which SG was the best at their peak? - playoffs


AussieSteve
11-25-2016, 09:53 PM
I analyzed which shooting guard was the best at his peak, based on a combination of stats and team performance in the regular season, in this thread...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422077

This post attempts to quantify who was the best SG at their peak, based solely on playoff performance. That is, which SG had the single best 20 consecutive playoff game stretch. (I chose 20 games, because its about the minimum you would expect for a championship run)

Using the same formula as I described in the link above, which takes each players average game score and weights it by their teams win %, the best 20 consecutive playoff games by the top 5 SGs of the last ~35 years (since all stats became available) were

1. Jordan - 27.63 (18 wins, 33.2ppg, 6.9rpg, 8.1apg, 2.5spg, 1.3bpg, 2.7tov .610 TS%) (25/4/91 -> 29/4/92)
2. Kobe - 20.50 (19 wins, 28.8ppg, 7.2rpg, 5.8apg, 1.6spg, 1.0bpg, 3.0tov .537 TS%) (19/6/00-> 28/04/02)
3. Wade - 19.12 (14 wins, 28.9ppg, 6.1rpg, 5.5apg, 2.2spg, 1.1bpg, 3.9tov, .605 TS%) (30/4/06 -> 20/6/06)
4. Drexler - 18.04 (13 wins, 26.5ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.3apg, 1.5spg, 0.9bpg, 2.8tov, .559 TS%) (23/4/92 -> 12/6/92)
5. Iverson - 17.01 (13 wins, 32.4pg, 4.6rpg, 6.3apg, 2.6spg, 0.3bpg, 2.9tov, .483 TS%) (15/5/00 -> 6/6/01)

So the stats say that, when considering both individual output and team results, Jordan had by far the highest peak playoff performance of any SG. It's actually amazing just how far ahead of the rest he is.

As an aside... many of you will notice that Kobe's peak playoff run here is 2000 -> 2002, but you may protest saying his 2009 was better. Based on stats alone, you would be right - his last 20 games of 09 were his best, but he only had 14 wins in that streak. I'm factoring in both stats and win% here, and I have to stick with it for consistency.
Bankaii
11-25-2016, 09:57 PM
Seems about right. Crazy how Jordan is so much more superior than the next best SG.
The gap between Kobe/Wade should be way smaller than the gap between Wade/Drexler.
AI>>>Drexler too.
ImKobe
11-25-2016, 10:27 PM
Seems about right. Crazy how Jordan is so much more superior than the next best SG.
The gap between Kobe/Wade should be way smaller than the gap between Wade/Drexler.
AI>>>Drexler too.

Kobe has multiple Playoff runs with better peak play though and with more wins

in the OP You have his play from before he was even in his prime

Kobe averaged 30/6/6 3 Finals runs combined where his team won 47 games

OP put in where Kobe had a 20.5 GmSc but he had better 20-game stretches

2008 22.4 GmSc 31/6/6 49%FG in the first 20 PO games
2009 23.2 GmSc 31/5/5 47%FG from games 4-23
2010 21.2 GmSc 30/6/6 47%FG from games 2-21
AussieSteve
11-25-2016, 11:07 PM
Kobe has multiple Playoff runs with better peak play though and with more wins

in the OP You have his play from before he was even in his prime

Kobe averaged 30/6/6 3 Finals runs combined where his team won 47 games

OP put in where Kobe had a 20.5 GmSc but he had better 20-game stretches

2008 22.4 GmSc 31/6/6 49%FG in the first 20 PO games
2009 23.2 GmSc 31/5/5 47%FG from games 4-23
2010 21.2 GmSc 30/6/6 47%FG from games 2-21

You're right and I don't disagree. This may be a flaw in my methodology.

To clarify though, the Kobe's average game score in the OP was 21.03. 20.50 is the average score adjusted for win%. His best streak based on game score alone was 31.4ppg, 5.3rpg, 5.2apg, 1.6spg, 1.0bpg, 2.4tov .572 TS% in 2009 for an average game score of 23.25. Better numbers for sure, but LAL had 14 wins in the streak, compared with 19 in the OP.

To be fair, can we say for certain that Kobe's better numbers in 2009 are definitely due to an increase in performance? It may be wholly or party due to the fact that he was sharing the court with Shaq in 01/02, where as in 09 he was the stud and was required to carry a bigger scoring load. I don't know, but this gets at what I was trying to achieve here. A guy getting big numbers on a team winning less isn't necessarily playing at a higher level than a guy getting smaller numbers on a team winning more (As a case in point, take CP3 and Westbrook). I'm trying to reward wins on an equal footing to raw stats.
NBAGOAT
11-26-2016, 12:30 AM
i'm definitely most interested in your peak C post for RS. There could be like 5 guys you could argue for no 1.
AussieSteve
11-26-2016, 01:19 AM
i'm definitely most interested in your peak C post for RS. There could be like 5 guys you could argue for no 1.

... that will be my next project
swagga
11-26-2016, 11:41 AM
you misspelled the title homie :
"Which SG was the 2nd best at their peak? - playoffs"
jordan got this easily.
SpaceJam
11-26-2016, 11:44 AM
i'm definitely most interested in your peak C post for RS. There could be like 5 guys you could argue for no 1.

Came in here to say this, it's going to be very interesting indeed
Round Mound
11-26-2016, 07:06 PM
What about Jerry West?
AussieSteve
11-26-2016, 08:48 PM
What about Jerry West?

Its basically a list of best peaks in the 3-pt era. Before then not all stats were available so an analysis like this is not possible. Also so much has changed in the game since the 70s that I don't think a stats based comparison is really meaningful anyway.
ClipperRevival
11-26-2016, 11:02 PM
MJ was the GOAT playoff performer ever regardless of position.
ClipperRevival
11-27-2016, 10:44 PM
Kobe was masterful in the entire 2008-09 playoffs. That trumps any Shaq era version of Kobe because he was "the man" and didn't have a Shaq to take off the pressure.

Also, what's crazy is MJ was so dominant in the playoffs, we can't even include his 1992-93 finals where he averaged 41.0 ppg on 51%. And his stats early in his career are mind boggling despite losing to far superior teams.
Dray n Klay
11-27-2016, 10:48 PM
Kobe was masterful in the entire 2008-09 playoffs. That trumps any Shaq era version of Kobe because he was "the man" and didn't have a Shaq to take off the pressure.

Also, what's crazy is MJ was so dominant in the playoffs, we can't even include his 1992-93 finals where he averaged 41.0 ppg on 51%. And his stats early in his career are mind boggling despite losing to far superior teams.


Is that your way of trying to justify 1-9?
sportjames23
11-28-2016, 01:28 AM
Is that your way of trying to justify 1-9?

http://imgsplanet.com/pics/main/49/383980-trigger.jpg
Mr. Jabbar
11-28-2016, 01:30 AM
http://imgsplanet.com/pics/main/49/383980-trigger.jpg

:roll: :roll:
Dray n Klay
11-28-2016, 01:34 AM
http://imgsplanet.com/pics/main/49/383980-trigger.jpg

Are you tryna describe what happened to MJ's dad? :lol