Rememeber when 3ball said Lebron makes his teammates worse?

[AirBonner]

How about now? :banana: :banana: :banana: :djparty :dancin :party:

[Nilocon165]

He'll now just change the argument to "Lebron had way more help than Jordan" like that autistic weirdo always does :lol

[AirBonner]

He'll now just change the argument to "Lebron had way more help than Jordan" like that autistic weirdo always does :lol
True he will move the goal posts as usual. But people who actually watch the games know the truth

[bobopenguin]

he is.
luckily star players like kyrie and Love found the way to maintain their average performace, they had rough time with lebron.

[warriorfan]

We can say LeBron made his teammates better when Love starts doing 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

[Human Error]

That idiot is like,

If Lebron's teammates struggle: he makes teammates worse
If Lebron's teammates play well: he is being carried by teammates

[SouBeachTalents]

That idiot is like,

If Lebron's teammates struggle: he makes teammates worse
If Lebron's teammates play well: he is being carried by teammates

And of course he says the opposite for Jordan

If Jordan's teammates play well, he makes his teammates better
If Jordan's teammates struggle, they were scrubs that he carried

[ShawkFactory]

I remember that narrative. It was a fun thing for them to celebrate

[SpaceJam]

And of course he says the opposite for Jordan

If Jordan's teammates play well, he makes his teammates better
If Jordan's teammates struggle, they were scrubs that he carried

Isn't that the same thing for Bron stans too :oldlol:

[coin24]

Lepippen played his role next to Kyrie batman last finals..

[AirBonner]

Lepippen played his role next to Kyrie batman last finals..
Did pippen ever outscore ordan in the finals and lead in every major statistic?

[JohnMax]

Lebron ball takes away teammates ability to be playmakers.

[egokiller]

Did pippen ever outscore ordan in the finals and lead in every major statistic?

Kyrie managed to get 41 points as the 2nd option even though Lebron had 41 points himself in game 5 of the finals! The difference is that Kyrie did it with greater efficency.

Show me a finals game where MJ had 40+ points and Pippen also had 40+ points on greater efficency. Pippen never did this to MJ in a finals game.

Jordan therefore did more with less, and the evidence is that their assist average in finals is similar.

[Hey Yo]

Kyrie managed to get 41 points as the 2nd option even though Lebron had 41 points himself in game 5 of the finals! The difference is that Kyrie did it with greater efficency.

Show me a finals game where MJ had 40+ points and Pippen also had 40+ points on greater efficency. Pippen never did this to MJ in a finals game.

Jordan therefore did more with less, and the evidence is that their assist average in finals is similar.
MJ was able to do more scoring cause his henchman Pippen had the duties of shutting down the oppositions best offensive player. MJ could save energy.

See 1991 Finals and then Scotties consecutive All-NBA Defense awards after that.

[AirBonner]

3alts avoiding this thread like the plague

[Rocketswin2013]

3ball needs to seek help at this point. He'll have a mental breakdown if the Cavs win again.

[MP.Trey]

Lebron ball takes away teammates ability to be playmakers.
That kind of thing can happen when you're one of the best playmakers not only today, but in the history of the game.

[Lebron23]

3ball needs to seek help at this point. He'll have a mental breakdown if the Cavs win again.


Sad part dude is 40 yrs.old, and has an 8 yrs.old kid.

[3ball]

.
Lebron lowers his teammates' APG (playmaking) and increases their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %...... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (15'-16'):.. 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)



Lebron lowers the apg of teammates, which is why his TEAMS rank low in assists - the lesser teamwork is why Lebron can't win without excessive supporting talent (team-hopping).. these are the FACTS

[3ball]

.
For the first time in Lebron's career (13 seasons), Lebron isn't cratering his PF's stats.

this makes me RIGHT, not wrong.. you dumbasses.

the stats are what they are:

Lebron lowered the apg of every key teammate he's ever had (shown in previous post), which is why his TEAMS (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421813) rank low in assists - the lesser teamwork is why Lebron can't win without excessive supporting talent (team-hopping).. these are the FACTS

[aj1987]

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.

[3ball]

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


Your stats are useless because they use the rookie stats, where guys like Pippen, Grant, and BJ averaged 6 ppg.

So here's the facts: the peak performance of Love, Bosh, Wade, and Mo Williams declined significantly when they joined Lebron, whereas the peak performance of Pippen, Grant, and company was the same with and without Jordan.

[Gatorade Sax]

.
Lebron lowers his teammates' APG (playmaking) and increases their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %...... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (15'-16'):.. 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)



Lebron lowers the apg of teammates, which is why his TEAMS rank low in assists - the lesser teamwork is why Lebron can't win without excessive supporting talent (team-hopping).. these are the FACTS


Literally all those guys were assisted more as a result..I dunno, maybe professional ball players enjoy being given the ball in prime scoring positions by a world class playmaker. I didn't hear any of them whining about their assist numbers going down.."Man I used to love dribbling around and passing to my terrible teammates hoping they would finally make a shot..now I'm lacing them up next to this Lebron fella and all I get is easy dunks and open jumpers.." Sounds pretty shit.

[TemporaMutantur]

Literally all those guys were assisted more as a result..I dunno, maybe professional ball players enjoy being given the ball in prime scoring positions by a world class playmaker. I didn't hear any of them whining about their assist numbers going down.."Man I used to love dribbling around and passing to my terrible teammates hoping they would finally make a shot..now I'm lacing them up next to this Lebron fella and all I get is easy dunks and open jumpers.." Sounds pretty shit.

Ha, thank you, it's as if one's "assist-rate" is the end all-be all criteria in determining whether a player makes his teammates better.

I'm very happy that 3ball is here vehemently defending his position though, otherwise, life would feel so empty.

[Gatorade Sax]

Wade was getting older and Bosh didn't have it in him to be a number one option. You've gotta play the cards you're dealt. At that point in guys careers they either start caring less about individual stats to win chips..or they keep chasing numbers and win nothing. There's plenty of examples of both, but chips keep everyone happy no matter what.

[3ball]

now I'm lacing them up next to this Lebron fella and all I get is easy dunks and open jumpers


what makes you think that all-nba players just want to shoot open jumpers and get easy dunks, while their playmaking role and stats CRATER?

great players like to MAKE PLAYS and reach their peak stats, both of which Lebron doesn't allow

Lebron turns his teams into 1-playmaker teams, which is easier to beat than multiple-playmaker teams (see 2011 Dallas and 2014 Spurs, who didn't win based on talent - they won based on superior teamwork - this kind of thing tends to repeat itself).





Literally all those guys were assisted more as a result


Lebron assists everyone, but he lowers everyone's assists in the process, which explains why Lebron's TEAMS always rank low in assists (never top 10 in assists)..

The lesser teamwork explains why Lebron can't win without excessive supporting talent (team-hopping).. It's pretty simple bud.. See all the stats here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422039)

so gimme a break with the delusions and ignoring of basic facts/logic - that's why you were surprised in 2011 and 2014 when Lebron lost, and you'll be surprised this year when he gets destroyed in a similar fashion.. also, let's see what happens this year when draymond DOESN'T get suspended... but keep ignoring the facts NOW, since that will make you a dumb hater in JUNE when i say "i told you so"

[Gatorade Sax]

Why'd you delete your post and repost it..now my reply to your original post is above this one...you're a strange dude.

[3ball]

Why'd you delete your post and repost it..now my reply to your original post is above this one...you're a strange dude.
i significantly edited the response, so i reposted it.

it still stands as a response to your latest response, which didn't address anything i said.

Wade and Bosh were still in their prime.. Heck, Wade outplayed Lebron in 2011 playoffs easily - go look at the stats.

The heat had success with Lebron's formula of less team assists... But that success was only 2/4, which MANY all-time greats could've achieved if they teamed up with arguably the best SG and PF in the league.. Otoh, Jordan's formula of maximum teamwork resulted in 6/6 and virtually NEVER underachieving with his team.
.

[egokiller]

Sad part dude is 40 yrs.old, and has an 8 yrs.old kid.

Sad part actually is you thinking a successful American like 3ball gives much thought about your opinion.

Why don't you stop posting this trash and do something productive with your life like answer this callout from 5 months ago:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412967

[AirBonner]

Sad part actually is you thinking a successful American like 3ball gives much thought about your opinion.

Why don't you stop posting this trash and do something productive with your life like answer this callout from 5 months ago:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412967
Hows that 6 figure job brah?

[3ball]

Hows that 6 figure job brah?


hey bruh, my last thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422273) was actually directed towards you, since you were the one that dodged the question over and over and over

[egokiller]

Hows that 6 figure job brah?

How did you know I make 6 figures when I've never mentioned my salary on here?

[Hey Yo]

How did you know I make 6 figures when I've never mentioned my salary on here?
Probably cause he remembers you posting that fake W-2 under the old "Straight _Ballin" account you used before LeBron took a giant shit on your face after the Finals.

[AirBonner]

Probably cause he remembers you posting that fake W-2 under the old "Straight _Ballin" account you used before LeBron took a giant shit on your face after the Finals.
http://i.imgur.com/hzWr5Tm.gif

[aj1987]

Your stats are useless because they use the rookie stats, where guys like Pippen, Grant, and BJ averaged 6 ppg.

So here's the facts: the peak performance of Love, Bosh, Wade, and Mo Williams declined significantly when they joined Lebron, whereas the peak performance of Pippen, Grant, and company was the same with and without Jordan.

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


Thanks for playing.

[3ball]

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


Thanks for playing.


The peak performance of Love, Bosh and Wade declined significantly when they joined Lebron, whereas the peak performance of Pippen, Grant, and company was the same with and without Jordan.

Your useless stats (that compare rookie performance to prime performance) don't change that - Jordan didn't reduce his teammates' peak performance, while Lebron does.

[3ball]

.
Lebron lowered the APG (playmaking) of every key teammate, and increased their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %...... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (15'-16'):.. 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)




So his teams always rank low in APG:


Cavs 2004:. 8th
Cavs 2005:. 6th
Cavs 2006:. 24th
Cavs 2007:. 15th
Cavs 2008:. 25th
Cavs 2009:. 20th
Cavs 2010:. 6th
Heat 2011:. 26th
Heat 2012:. 21st
Heat 2013:. 7th
Heat 2014:. 11th
Cavs 2015:. 10th
Cavs 2016:. 13th
___________________________
14.8 average rank for Lebron's teams




CONCLUSION: By reducing his team's APG and teamwork, Lebron needs excessive supporting talent to win (aka team-hopping).. :confusedshrug:

And by reducing his team's APG and teamwork, he invariably loses to teams with SUPERIOR teamwork (see 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs, who won via superior teamwork, not talent)

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


Thanks for playing.
BJ was an NBA All Star Starter, talk about held back.

[egokiller]

Probably cause he remembers you posting that fake W-2 under the old "Straight _Ballin" account you used before LeBron took a giant shit on your face after the Finals.

We've already been through this. How was a shit taken on him when he was a Cavs fan?

[aj1987]

BJ was an NBA All Star Starter, talk about held back.
Yep. Ordan severely lowered his teammates' PPG, APG, and RPG.

Proof:

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.