Who's Better Now: GSW, or Cavs?

[CTbasketball92]

It's hard to say. These two teams will most definitely be in the finals, and they both look unbeatable, but in different ways. The Cavs are meshing better than ever after their championship. Kevin Love was playing out of his mind when he only shot 34% on threes through the first two weeks of the season. Now that his three ball is falling at his normal rate and he's making cross-court passes, playing defense and scoring and rebounding really well, it's safe to say he's re-establishing himself as a sort of top 15, top 20 player for sure. Kyrie is carrying over his postseason success and looks more polished as a scorer than ever before, and he still isn't forcing the action. LeBron is still the game's best player and is controlling the game with a roster completely built for his strengths. Shooters everywhere, a dynamic guard who doesn't need the ball a ton, a stretch four, etc. Tristan Thompson is going to be huge down the line.

On the other hand, GSW has KD playing more efficiently than ever with a 68 TS%, Curry is still at least a top 5 player and is still going to end up with 350+ 3s. Klay has stepped out of his slump and is now playing really good ball, and is still solid of defense. Draymond is still playing good defense and making himself really productive anytime he's on the court. Iggy's losing a step, but Patrick McCaw can do somethings down the line. Javale makes one great play and one lame play consecutively somewhat regularly, but he's not awful. Livingston is still there. GSW isn't as deep as it was last year, and it still lacks the rim protector, but theyve got two of the game's most efficent scorers, one the game's best shooters and Draymond Green, one of the league's best swiss army knives. So the question is: Who is better?

[Meticode]

Personally I think the Warriors are playing a better brand of basketball with their crazy assist numbers. The Cavs are simply hitting their open shots and all of that can change by simply missing them.

I can't complain about either.

[jrjim]

Both are playing cupcake schedules, but GSW for sure. Dudes just scored 150 in a regulation game. Thats nuts

[BeastMode24]

the warriors are. warriors are on pace to have the goat offense and their defense has actually been better than the cavs. the warriors net rating and point differential is miles better than the cavs.

[Uncle Drew]

the warriors are. warriors are on pace to have the goat offense and their defense has actually been better than the cavs. the warriors net rating and point differential is miles better than the cavs.
Which was the case last season and we all know how that went. :rolleyes: :roll:

[Vancouver-Grizz]

GSW is the better team BUT Cleveland is better matched up against GSW.

[BeastMode24]

Which was the case last season and we all know how that went. :rolleyes: :roll:

yeah warriors were up 3-1 before draymond got suspended in game 5, bogut went down for the series in game 5, and iggy got crippled in game 6 and now the warriors just replaced harrison "miss every wide open 3" barnes with kevin durant.

[scuzzy]

Lebron James and his squad off 0 all-stars

Getting compared to

2016 Olympic Team



The magnitude of greatness. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Ben Simmons]

Warriors will win 70.

Cavs 60

[warriorfan]

yeah warriors were up 3-1 before draymond got suspended in game 5, bogut went down for the series in game 5, and iggy got crippled in game 6 and now the warriors just replaced harrison "miss every wide open 3" barnes with kevin durant.

Well said

[DMAVS41]

Better now...like who would be favored in a series if they played?

Clearly the Warriors. They have an unreal level of talent and present a nightmare match up for Love. That isn't going anywhere...the Warriors are the worst match up imaginable for the 3rd best player on the Cavs.

I don't think enough people are understanding just how absurd of an upset it would be if the Cavs (or really any team) were to beat a healthy Warriors team in a 7 game series.

It would be historic.

[DMAVS41]

GSW is the better team BUT Cleveland is better matched up against GSW.

How?

The Warriors render Love almost neutral to negative in terms of impact and have proven they can guard Lebron very well without sending a ton of help when Iggy is healthy.

And now they got rid of Barnes and replaced him with a player probably 3 times as good.

It is a nightmare match up for the Cavs.

[warriorfan]

How?

The Warriors render Love almost neutral to negative in terms of impact and have proven they can guard Lebron very well without sending a ton of help when Iggy is healthy.

And now they got rid of Barnes and replaced him with a player probably 3 times as good.

It is a nightmare match up for the Cavs.

No rim protection

[DMAVS41]

No rim protection

Meh...Bogut/Ezeli were pretty much irrelevant last year in the finals. A trade you'd gladly make to add Durant to this team.

[warriorfan]

Meh...Bogut/Ezeli were pretty much irrelevant last year in the finals. A trade you'd gladly make to add Durant to this team.

Ezeli was, Bogut wasn't

Look at the +/- between Ezeli and Varejao in game 7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201606190GSW.html)

-18 in 18 minutes played between the two of them

Replace those stiffs for Bogut in those 18 minutes and the Warriors win

[DMAVS41]

Ezeli was, Bogut wasn't

Look at the +/- between Ezeli and Varejao in game 7

Why would you compare it to Andy? You aren't going to be playing Andy...it is Zaza that will be in there...and he's far better than Andy imo.

Also, realize you are talking about a player that played 8 mpg in the finals and never played over 15 minutes iirc.

Just to be clear...are you saying that the current Warriors are worse off against the Cavs than they were last year?

[warriorfan]

Why would you compare it to Andy? You aren't going to be playing Andy...it is Zaza that will be in there...and he's far better than Andy imo.

Also, realize you are talking about a player that played 8 mpg in the finals and never played over 15 minutes iirc.

Just to be clear...are you saying that the current Warriors are worse off against the Cavs than they were last year?

Andy and Zaza are total bums that offer zero rim protection

Ezeli was able to protect the rim at times after he improved during the 2016 season, but he returned back to the Ezeli of 2013 when he played in the Finals

[DMAVS41]

Andy and Zaza are total bums that offer zero rim protection

Ezeli was able to protect the rim at times after he improved during the 2016 season, but he returned back to the Ezeli of 2013 when he played in the Finals

I don't think Zaza is a total bum...I agree about Andy though.

You are talking about a guy that played 8 minutes per game in the finals...

Also, you didn't answer the question.

Which Warriors team is better vs the Cavs? I thought that was what this was about...

[warriorfan]

Last year's team is probably better

Better defense

Deeper big man rotation

Less redundancy on offense

[DMAVS41]

Last year's team is probably better

Better defense

Deeper big man rotation

Less redundancy on offense

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised come playoff time if they are healthy.

Durant is easily worth Bogut, Ezeli, and Barnes...it actually isn't even remotely close in my opinion.

I also would bet they add another big capable of playing 10 minutes or so a game at the deadline.

[francesco totti]

Right now would be warriors.They have played 10 games on road, compared to 4 Cavs played.By time Cavs start playing road games, I think Warriors will pull away in record.

[BeastMode24]

Andy and Zaza are total bums that offer zero rim protection

Ezeli was able to protect the rim at times after he improved during the 2016 season, but he returned back to the Ezeli of 2013 when he played in the Finals

ezeli was never the same after he returned from knee surgery last season.

[Terahite]

Warriors will win 70.

Cavs 60

:whatever:

[Ben Simmons]

:whatever:
What's wrong with 60 games? You gotta assume they will rest big time

[BigKAT]

2016 Warriors > 2017 Warriors > 2017 Cavs > 2015 Warriors

But yeah, match ups matter.
And don't sleep on a team with Lebron james in it.

[MrFonzworth]

I'll take the team that didn't blow a 3-1 lead.

[ArbitraryWater]

2016 Warriors > 2017 Warriors > 2017 Cavs > 2015 Warriors

But yeah, match ups matter.
And don't sleep on a team with Lebron james in it.

Youre saying Cavs got worse?

[BigKAT]

Youre saying Cavs got worse?

Nope.
I'm saying that the 2016 Cavs were not as good as the 2016 Warriors.

They won because they had heart, luck and Lebron mother****ing James playing out of his mind for 3 straight games.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nope.
I'm saying that the 2016 Cavs were not as good as the 2016 Warriors.

They won because they had heart, luck and Lebron mother****ing James playing out of his mind for 3 straight games.

LeBron is part of the team dumbo... thats what he's capable of. Thats not an argument against the Cavs's strenth. heart? the fck is that? Every title team should have 'heart'

Considering 2016 CLE > 2016 GSW, you said the Cavs got worse :confusedshrug:

[avonbarksdale]

i think the cavs are better, they try way less hard and still dominate teams

[BigKAT]

LeBron is part of the team dumbo... thats what he's capable of. Thats not an argument against the Cavs's strenth. heart? the fck is that? Every title team should have 'heart'

Considering 2016 CLE > 2016 GSW, you said the Cavs got worse :confusedshrug:

I dunno man.
If we run that series ten times in a super computer?
I think Golden state wins 7 out of 10 times.

But, take these things into account
1. Lebron wanted that -one- ring for Cleveland
2. Draymond Green ****ed things up by messing up with techs
3. Kevin Love pulled the greatest defensive move of his life

The thing is, an Inferior team can beat a superior team.
And that's exactly what happened.

Feel free to disagree with me.
But I say that the Cavs were not the better team.
They just wanted it more.

If you ask me, I just watched Game 5 of that finals series again (Night shift), and tell you something? It kinda feels like some of these warriors are thinking more about 'Hmh, can I get that FMVP if I put 30 points?'' rather then ''God, I want this championship.''

[Real14]

GSW

[ArbitraryWater]

I dunno man.
If we run that series ten times in a super computer?
I think Golden state wins 7 out of 10 times.

But, take these things into account
1. Lebron wanted that -one- ring for Cleveland
2. Draymond Green ****ed things up by messing up with techs
3. Kevin Love pulled the greatest defensive move of his life

The thing is, an Inferior team can beat a superior team.
And that's exactly what happened.

Feel free to disagree with me.
But I say that the Cavs were not the better team.
They just wanted it more.

If you ask me, I just watched Game 5 of that finals series again (Night shift), and tell you something? It kinda feels like some of these warriors are thinking more about 'Hmh, can I get that FMVP if I put 30 points?'' rather then ''God, I want this championship.''

:biggums:

How come? Why would Curry not choke anymore? :wtf: Why would Bron not play that good?

"But I say that the Cavs were not the better team.
They just wanted it more."

Absolutely retarded... not just is it another lazy way of arguing "muh wanted it more", but even if you'd believe one team wanted it more, surely that would play a part in them being better? What else do you want out of a team otherwise?

Youre all-around making no sense again.

Love pulled the GOAT defensive move? I mean, are you smoking right now? And were Green's actions out of line for him? Dude, he does that shit just about every game.. thats part of the player he is, its part of the team.

Inferior teams do not beat superior teams, ever... Because of the BO7 format, that is made impossible.

[BigKAT]

:biggums:

How come? Why would Curry not choke anymore? :wtf: Why would Bron not play that good?

"But I say that the Cavs were not the better team.
They just wanted it more."

Absolutely retarded... not just is it another lazy way of arguing "muh wanted it more", but even if you'd believe one team wanted it more, surely that would play a part in them being better? What else do you want out of a team otherwise?

Youre all-around making no sense again.

Love pulled the his defensive move? I mean, are you smoking right now? And were Green's actions out of line for him? Dude, he does that shit just about every game.. thats part of the player he is, its part of the team.

Inferior teams do not beat superior teams, ever... Because of the BO7 format, that is made impossible.

Fixed your misunderstanding.

Either way, we agree to disagree.
Any champion, any champion in any sport will tell you that you need luck to win it all. You need some breaks to go your way. And my honest opinion is that on 7 times out of 10, Cleveland doesn't get the breaks it need to win.

Horry won't always make the season saving shot.
Steve Kerr won't always come off the bench to save a season with a barrage of 3s.
Chris Bosh won't always get the offensive rebound, find a backpedaling Ray Allen and send the game to OT.
Amare Stoudmaire's suspension screwed up Phoenix.
Beverly gave Memphis that series vs OKC.


Shit. Happens.
And if you think that the 'Better' team always wins, then I suppose we must disagree.

But tell you something?
It's the 'Inferior' champions that truely become legendary.

[moongaze]

Ezeli was, Bogut wasn't

Look at the +/- between Ezeli and Varejao in game 7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201606190GSW.html)

-18 in 18 minutes played between the two of them

Replace those stiffs for Bogut in those 18 minutes and the Warriors win

Lol at this guy talking about +/-. Bogut had the worst +/- of the warrior players and golden state only came back down 2-1 to the cavs AFTER benching him. The warriors were better wuthout bogut.

The green argument is retarded because he played the next game and lebron had perhaps a better game than he had in game 5. The cavs beat the best version of golden state.

[ArbitraryWater]

Fixed your misunderstanding.

Either way, we agree to disagree.
Any champion, any champion in any sport will tell you that you need luck to win it all. You need some breaks to go your way. And my honest opinion is that on 7 times out of 10, Cleveland doesn't get the breaks it need to win.

Horry won't always make the season saving shot.
Steve Kerr won't always come off the bench to save a season with a barrage of 3s.
Chris Bosh won't always get the offensive rebound, find a backpedaling Ray Allen and send the game to OT.
Amare Stoudmaire's suspension screwed up Phoenix.
Beverly gave Memphis that series vs OKC.


Shit. Happens.
And if you think that the 'Better' team always wins, then I suppose we must disagree.

But tell you something?
It's the 'Inferior' champions that truely become legendary.

No, its the underdog champs that become legendary, not the inferior ones, those dont exist.

Then youre mixing up great plays/shots, with questionable suspensiosn and such... you cant just discount a freakin basketball play made. Everything comes down to a reason.

I'm obviously excluding injuries possibly altering the outcome, not allowing teams to compete at full strength. But besides that, its impossible for the worse team to win a SEVEN GAME SERIES... think about how ignorant and disrespectful that would be to them.

And an injury to a role player at 12 mpg with a negative impact, isnt enough to give the loser the benefit of the doubt.

Cleveland made their breaks. Dahntay came in and made 2-3 plays in a minute. Love made a big spot. Kyrie went ballistic. Youre gonna discredit that and say they cant do it again?

Just seems foul.

[moongaze]

yeah warriors were up 3-1 before draymond got suspended in game 5, bogut went down for the series in game 5, and iggy got crippled in game 6 and now the warriors just replaced harrison "miss every wide open 3" barnes with kevin durant.

:facepalm warriors were OUTSCORED when bogut played. Green played in game 6 and cavs won by one point less than game 5 and lebron had the same points. Iggy got hurt but so did Kyrie, a nu h more important player, in the same game.
.you act like game 5 was the change of the series when it was actually game 3. The cavs dominated game 3, led for most of game 4 and won the rest of the games. The cavs winning had nothing to do with those illogical excuses but due to them getting their groove back after game 2. The series changes after game 2 not game 5.

[DukeDelonte13]

now probably warriors.

but "now" doesn't really matter.

[RedBlackAttack]

now probably warriors.

but "now" doesn't really matter.
Maybe they are, but remember how crazy people were going when Kevin Love joined LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland? People forget how good this offense was "supposed" to be in that moment.

A couple years, lots of trials in tribulations (and one championship) later, and everyone is going bananas for this "other" consolidation of basketball power ... and rightfully so. Never have we seen a player like Durant join a pre-existing team like the Warriors. There's nothing close, either.

But, with that being said, this Cavs team is finally showing us what everyone expected to happen immediately, and doing it in an even more effortless manner than anyone thought possible. Love is playing out of his mind currently, and he frankly looks like a better version than the guy who played in Minnesota.

Kyrie and LeBron are Kyrie and LeBron. JR, Shump, Tristan... the addition of another dead-eye shooting big in Channing Frye. The unexpected rejuvenation of Richard Jefferson.

All of this has finally led, a couple years later, to an insane level of basketball ... but, it has been long ago enough to where people have forgotten just how good this team was supposed to be.

I know the last two games have been against the Blazers and Mavs and those two teams have suspect defenses, but the Cavs are not the first team in history to play two bad defensive teams in a row. They are the first team in NBA history to hit 20+ threes in consecutive regular season games. I say "regular season games," because they also did it in the playoffs against the Hawks last year in consecutive games.

I also believe they have the record (and it is still going) for number of games in a row with 10+ threes as a team

These are Kevin Love's highlights from last night... look how much more carefree he is playing. Just beautiful basketball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1x0ZlDeMM&feature=youtu.be


And, Kyrie hit his first 10 shots. And LeBron is putting up near triple-doubles every night and barely trying, seemingly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRnzKLFQ3Dc


That's what happens when the weight of expectation is lifted off of you (permanently, with the championship that all these guys had a big hand in), and put on someone else.

I'll tell you this ... I wouldn't want to play this Cavs team and be expected to wipe the floor with them, which is what was the expectation coming into the season for the Warriors. This Cavs team is ... good. Really good. As a team, much moreso than previous versions.

[BigKAT]

Maybe they are, but remember how crazy people were going when Kevin Love joined LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland? People forget how good this offense was "supposed" to be in that moment.

A couple years, lots of trials in tribulations (and one championship) later, and everyone is going bananas for this "other" consolidation of basketball power ... and rightfully so. Never have we seen a player like Durant join a pre-existing team like the Warriors. There's nothing close, either.

But, with that being said, this Cavs team is finally showing us what everyone expected to happen immediately, and doing it in an even more effortless manner than anyone thought possible. Love is playing out of his mind currently, and he frankly looks like a better version than the guy who played in Minnesota.

Kyrie and LeBron are Kyrie and LeBron. JR, Shump, Tristan... the addition of another dead-eye shooting big in Channing Frye. The unexpected rejuvenation of Richard Jefferson.

All of this has finally led, a couple years later, to an insane level of basketball ... but, it has been long ago enough to where people have forgotten just how good this team was supposed to be.

I know the last two games have been against the Blazers and Mavs and those two teams have suspect defenses, but the Cavs are not the first team in history to play two bad defensive teams in a row. They are the first team in NBA history to hit 20+ threes in consecutive regular season games. I say "regular season games," because they also did it in the playoffs against the Hawks last year in consecutive games.

I also believe they have the record (and it is still going) for number of games in a row with 10+ threes as a team

These are Kevin Love's highlights from last night... look how much more carefree he is playing. Just beautiful basketball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1x0ZlDeMM&feature=youtu.be


And, Kyrie hit his first 10 shots. And LeBron is putting up near triple-doubles every night and barely trying, seemingly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRnzKLFQ3Dc


That's what happens when the weight of expectation is lifted off of you (permanently, with the championship that all these guys had a big hand in), and put on someone else.

I'll tell you this ... I wouldn't want to play this Cavs team and be expected to wipe the floor with them, which is what was the expectation coming into the season for the Warriors. This Cavs team is ... good. Really good. As a team, much moreso than previous versions.

Yeah.
This has vibe of that Miami team-post the first championship.
The one that absolutly broke the league with the best streak since the lakers. (27. I don't know why but I don't count that shitty Warriors record that includes wins from two seasons with PO defeats in the middle, seriously tf with that.)

They absolutly ravaged the league. Though, like the Celtics big 3 before them, that didn't mean a smooth playoff run. (7G ECF and Finals.)

I think that this carefree thing is doing them wonders.
In a way, getting their goal unleashed them, you keep seeing them going to games together, you keep seeing them on the bench, don't forget these guys spent the last three years together. (Or six in TT and Kyrie's case.)

So yeah, looking forward to seeing them do well in the postseason.

[Terahite]

Definitely the Cavs. KD has a giant chip on his shoulder playing every RS game like it's game 7 while King James wins his games with relative ease. :oldlol:

The fact that this current GSW incarnation was formed to defeat Lebron (rent free) makes them super-cringey and unlikeable. I and everyone I know will be rooting against them in the postseason.

Also, their team is kinda boring to watch despite their dominance. Not to mention that Steve Kerr is a fuccin douche bag of the highest caliber. Livingston is the only likeable player on their team.

[konex]

On paper, I say Cavs cos GS doesn't play much defense. However. if Steph, Klay and KD are making shots, they don't need defense. On the other hand, Cavs have players that give GS players trouble and they rebound much better. Will be a good Finals for sure :applause:

[hold this L]

Definitely the Cavs. KD has a giant chip on his shoulder playing every RS game like it's game 7 while King James wins his games with relative ease.

The fact that this current GSW incarnation was formed to defeat Lebron (rent free) makes them super-cringey and unlikeable. I and everyone I know will be rooting against them in the postseason.

Also, their team is kinda boring to watch despite their dominance. Not to mention that Steve Kerr is a fuccin douche bag of the highest caliber. Livingston is the only likeable player on their team.
:violin:

On paper, I say Cavs cos GS doesn't play much defense. However. if Steph, Klay and KD are making shots, they don't need defense. On the other hand, Cavs have players that give GS players trouble and they rebound much better. Will be a good Finals for sure :applause:
Warriors currently have a better defense than Cavs.