I really thought KD's stats would take a hit with GS

[konex]

In fact, I drafted Steph with the #2 pick over him in Fantasy because of it :facepalm

His scoring is about the same but his efficiency is way up. Like LeBron in Miami up. Who would have guessed Draymond and Klay to a lesser extent would be the ones to suffer stats-wise?

After a month, what do you think about KD in GS. Did you expect this or are you sort of surprised?

[Paul George 24]

In fact, I drafted Steph with the #2 pick over him in Fantasy because of it :facepalm

His scoring is about the same but his efficiency is way up. Like LeBron in Miami up. Who would have guessed Draymond and Klay to a lesser extent would be the ones to suffer stats-wise?

After a month, what do you think about KD in GS. Did you expect this or are you sort of surprised?
GWS WILL NOT WIN CHAMPION //////////////////////

[Terahite]

GWS WILL NOT WIN CHAMPION //////////////////////

lol

what are you drinking?

[Nilocon165]

GWS WILL NOT WIN CHAMPION //////////////////////
Normally I wouldn't respond to this, but I've been drinking and I didn't like it and Besides you almost say nothing of worth and you know god damn shit about basketball. I may be a drunken bastard but I put all you little shits to shame as far as basketball knowledge. I've burned more knowledge in my brain than most of you will ever know. Believe dat. You know when you can be a prick asshole? When you know what your talking about. And that's me.

[keep-itreal]

Warriors don't play defense now

[AirBonner]

Normally I wouldn't respond to this, but I've been drinking and I didn't like it and Besides you almost say nothing of worth and you know god damn shit about basketball. I may be a drunken bastard but I put all you little shits to shame as far as basketball knowledge. I've burned more knowledge in my brain than most of you will ever know. Believe dat. You know when you can be a prick asshole? When you know what your talking about. And that's me.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[KiiiiNG]

Normally I wouldn't respond to this, but I've been drinking and I didn't like it and Besides you almost say nothing of worth and you know god damn shit about basketball. I may be a drunken bastard but I put all you little shits to shame as far as basketball knowledge. I've burned more knowledge in my brain than most of you will ever know. Believe dat. You know when you can be a prick asshole? When you know what your talking about. And that's me.
Looks like an old school smoke post.

[Nilocon165]

Looks like an old school smoke post.
Because it is:lol

[34-24 Footwork]

In fact, I drafted Steph with the #2 pick over him in Fantasy because of it :facepalm

His scoring is about the same but his efficiency is way up. Like LeBron in Miami up. Who would have guessed Draymond and Klay to a lesser extent would be the ones to suffer stats-wise?

After a month, what do you think about KD in GS. Did you expect this or are you sort of surprised?

The thing is that.....he's taking tougher shots as well. He's not protecting his FG% because of the way that Golden State plays. He's not holding the basketball for 20 sec per possession.

[Ben Simmons]

lol, whats wrong with you. Durant is a scoring machine. Of course he would be more efficient and average the same.

[GimmeThat]

still plays in the west, Steve Kerr is going to be on the hot seat if they don't win it this year

what's missing from the team, is the confidence to run the same play when there isn't an advantage at the position or location on the floor when the attempt doesn't seem favorable (I suppose the team may be okay with Thompson and Green having their stats taken a hit after all)

this somewhat goes back to Curry taking those 3 point attempt way behind the arc

it's easy to say that the coach will be on the hot seat, because it's the coaches responsibility to draw up new plays to hide the weakness of the team. only the unfavorable part against them is that the Cavs is once again the favorite to win the East. Which means Lebron will be playing against a Steve Kerr coached team for the 3rd round, a total of 12-19 games.

[Rocketswin2013]

I expected this on some level. Durant from '12 - '16 changed roles and styles and did virtually every single facet of scoring at an elite level at one point or another. Everything from post-ups, to hand-offs, to transition shots of all kinds. ISO's. Everything.

It's just hard for a guy with that much range offensively to struggle.

I thought Thompson would struggle like he has. But for the most part KD has replaced some of the lower percentage plays with his own. This offense is insane.

[bdreason]

Who would have guessed Draymond and Klay to a lesser extent would be the ones to suffer stats-wise?



This is precisely what I thought would happen. Klay got moved to 3rd option and Draygod becomes the defensive specialist.

[warriorfan]

The Curry Effect

[NumberSix]

Golden State Regular Season Warriors.

[3ball]

The Curry Effect


that off-ball effect - here's a post I made last season (the links no longer work):


Here's a list of all the play-types listed on NBA.com, with the percentile rank that 1.00 PPP equates to in each category (the lower the percentile rank, the more efficient the play - as you can see, 1.00 PPP translates to the 65.2 percentile for "off-screen", and the 81.5 percentile for "isolations", so "off-screen" is more efficient):


1) Cut (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/cut/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 19.2 percentile

2) Roll man on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/roll-man/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 46.1 percentile

3) Off-screen (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/off-screen/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 65.2 percentile

4) Spot-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/spot-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 63.3 percentile

5) Hand-offs (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/hand-off/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 71.4 percentile

6) Isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 81.5 percentile

7) Post-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive): 86.2 percentile

8) Ballhandler on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 94.6 percentile



HOW THIS RELATES TO CURRY'S SUPERIORITY

The least efficient play shown above (ballhandler on screen rolls) constitutes 20-25% of the offense for top wings like Lebron, with another 20-25% coming from similarly low efficient isolations.. Essentially, the top wing players in the league use low efficiency ball-dominance over 50% of the time.

Point guards ALSO use the least efficient options - they're the ballhandler on screen rolls for 40% to 60% of their offense.

But the exception is Steph Curry.. He's the ballhandler on screen-rolls for only 24.2% of his offense and only isolates 10% of the time.. He simply employs the higher efficiency OFF-BALL options more often than his peers.. This is contributes to his superior efficiency.

His off-ball offense not only makes him more efficeint, but this gives teammates more opportunity/time with the ball to be comfortable and play their game..

Unlike Lebron, teammates aren't starved of the ball and don't have to subjugate their game to the whim of the #1 option.. Ultimately, Curry is better because his off-ball play makes him more efficient, while giving his team more capacity to reach a higher level of teamwork and superior play.
.

[warriorfan]

that off-ball effect - here's a post I made last season:


Here's a list of all the play-types listed on NBA.com, with the percentile rank that 1.00 PPP equates to in each category (the lower the percentile rank, the more efficient the play - as you can see, 1.00 PPP translates to the 65.2 percentile for "off-screen", and the 81.5 percentile for "isolations", so "off-screen" is more efficient):


1) Cut (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/cut/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 19.2 percentile

2) Roll man on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/roll-man/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 46.1 percentile

3) Off-screen (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/off-screen/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 65.2 percentile

4) Spot-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/spot-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 63.3 percentile

5) Hand-offs (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/hand-off/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 71.4 percentile

6) Isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 81.5 percentile

7) Post-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive): 86.2 percentile

8) Ballhandler on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 94.6 percentile



HOW THIS RELATES TO CURRY'S SUPERIORITY

The least efficient play shown above (ballhandler on screen rolls) constitutes 20-25% of the offense for top wings like Lebron, with another 20-25% coming from similarly low efficient isolations.. Essentially, the top wing players in the league use low efficiency ball-dominance over 50% of the time.

Point guards ALSO use the least efficient options - they're the ballhandler on screen rolls for 40% to 60% of their offense.

But the exception is Steph Curry.. He's the ballhandler on screen-rolls for only 24.2% of his offense and only isolates 10% of the time.. He simply employs the higher efficiency OFF-BALL options more often than his peers.. This is contributes to his superior efficiency.

His off-ball offense not only makes him more efficeint, but this gives teammates more opportunity/time with the ball to be comfortable and play their game..

Unlike Lebron, teammates aren't starved of the ball and don't have to subjugate their game to the whim of the #1 option.. Ultimately, Curry is better because his off-ball play makes him more efficient, while giving his team more capacity to reach a higher level of teamwork and superior play.

Excellent post, extremely insightful

If you don't mind I am going to record this post for future reference

Keep up the great work

-warriorfan

[3ball]

Excellent post, extremely insightful

If you don't mind I am going to record this post for future reference

Keep up the great work

-warriorfan
cool, thanks man i appreciate it..

too bad the links don't work anymore in that post - nba.com no longer has those stat for previous seasons.

but i'll make another post at the midway point of this season (or at the end) and the play rankings will be the same.. the sample sizes for each play is enormous.

[warriorfan]

cool, thanks man i appreciate it..

too bad the links don't work anymore in that post - nba.com no longer has those stat for previous seasons.

but i'll make another post at the midway point of this season (or at the end) and the play rankings will be the same.. the sample sizes for each play is enormous.

Sounds good, we will be eagerly awaiting

[K Xerxes]

Unlike Lebron, teammates aren't starved of the ball and don't have to subjugate their game to the whim of the #1 option.. Ultimately, Curry is better because his off-ball play makes him more efficient, while giving his team more capacity to reach a higher level of teamwork and superior play.
.

Curry has proven his off-ball play gives his team more capacity to choke away a 3-1 lead in the NBA finals.

It's interesting you use regular season stats to support your argument that Curry is better than LeBron, when LeBron just stomped on Curry in June. But now regular season play actually means something?

[3ball]

Curry has proven his off-ball play gives his team more capacity to choke away a 3-1 lead in the NBA finals.

It's interesting you use regular season stats to support your argument that Curry is better than LeBron, when LeBron just stomped on Curry in June.


Curry fucced up his his knee in the playoffs.. MCL tear..

Then Draymond got suspended in Game 5, along with injuries to Iggy and bogut... those are the facts..

Before these things happened, Lebron was averaging 24 ppg and 6 TO's thru 4 games.. After these things happened, he averaged 36 ppg and 3 TO's for the final 3 games..

btw, those were mj's averages for the ENTIRE 91'93' finals (36 & 3) - lebron basically turned into jordan for 3 games to win, and even then he needed draymond suspension, along with curry/iggy/bogut injuries.





But now regular season play actually means something?


Regular season play doesn't mean shit, which is why I made this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422173) thread.

Btw, fyi... Every key teammate that Lebron ever had saw their APG decline significantly alongside him, which is why Lebron's teams rank low in APG every year - their poor teamwork is why Lebron can't win without excessive talent (team-hopping) to offset the reduction in teamwork.. the poor teamwork is also why he's susceptible to 2011 and 2014 losses, where he loses to superior teamwork (not talent)..

all the stats regarding these facts are shown here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422039).
.

[warriorfan]

Everything 3ball said is true

However you must also take into account the level of defensive attraction Curry was demanding during the Finals, his offensive contributions were not being recorded in the box.

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/4bYYPLGiZavZr6odQMT2_61HGAc=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3783750/warriorsball.0.gif


https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/game-3-4.gif



When looking back in retrospect this makes Michael Jordan's statistics all that more unbelievable. Michael Jordan attracted this level of defensive attention as seen above and still managed to put up astronomical numbers consistently.

[Mr. Jabbar]

what an awesome, insightful thread. id like to personally thank warriorfan and 3ball for their contributions to this board.

[Hey Yo]

In fact, I drafted Steph with the #2 pick over him in Fantasy because of it :facepalm

His scoring is about the same but his efficiency is way up. Like LeBron in Miami up. Who would have guessed Draymond and Klay to a lesser extent would be the ones to suffer stats-wise?

After a month, what do you think about KD in GS. Did you expect this or are you sort of surprised?
Definitely surprised.

Didn't think KD would take over the team. Figured he would let Drayfag and Klay try to get their's 1st