If Westbrook averages a Triple Double for a Season

[TheImmortal]

Westbrook > Big Overrated

[Lebronxrings]

hes not better than lebron. Lebron is sacrificing his stats and destroying teams in ways not in the box score.

[BlakFrankWhite]

He evolves from GOATbrook to GAWDbrook, and that is super Saiyan level 5000000.

[TheImmortal]

Higher paced inflated era of Big O has his stats far inferior than Westbrooks.. plus when you factor in the level of competition.. this will be the first legit triple double season.

[GOBB]

Stop it. How can you speak on Big O and you've never watched him play? Your eye test is incomplete. :no:


Anyway, Westbrook avg a triple double that would be amazing. He's beasting. I wonder if he can maintain this. It'll be tough. Might come up short in rebounds.

[MrFonzworth]

Padding his stats. Going after rebounds instead of actually playing defense & gonna put up the 2nd most turnovers in NBA history. An entire tier below MVP.

[tpols]

Padding his stats. Going after rebounds instead of actually playing defense & gonna put up the 2nd most turnovers in NBA history. An entire tier below MVP.

westbrook definitely pads his boards.. i watch steven adams clear the house out only for him to snipe it away all the time. But he's still an all time great rebounder for a guard. For somebody with a poverty vertical WB has perfect timing for snatching it violently out of the air. He is a basketball magnet

[GOBB]

Padding his stats. Going after rebounds instead of actually playing defense & gonna put up the 2nd most turnovers in NBA history. An entire tier below MVP.

A/TO ratio 2.1

[Real Men Wear Green]

Higher paced inflated era of Big O has his stats far inferior than Westbrooks.. plus when you factor in the level of competition.. this will be the first legit triple double season.
That may apply to rebounding stats although the math must be done before we say for sure what the equivalent of 10 rebounds is now versus then. But it must also be said that assists are easier to get by modern standards.

[Gileraracer]

hes not better than lebron. Lebron is sacrificing his stats and destroying teams in ways not in the box score.


Yeah by bitching complaining and flopping

[BigTicket]

But it must also be said that assists are easier to get by modern standards.

Not true.

In 61-62 when Big O had his triple double season the league average was 23.9 assists per game, this year it is 22.0 assist per game, so there are fewer assists now than there were back then.

If Westbrook does average a triple double for a full season in 16-17, it would be a much bigger accomplishment than when Big O did it in 61-62. That said, I don't think Westbrook will average a triple double for the full season, but he might come close, which is incredible by itself.

[ClipperRevival]

It would be one of THE singular seasons in NBA history. But he won't do it. He won't average 10.0 rpg. No way.

Another interesting fact is that both Westbrook and Harden are on pace to shatter the single, season turnover record, which Harden set last year.

[kurple]

how can people use opponents as a reason?

give westbrook a couple all-star converse and tell him to do the same thing again. tell him to focus on school and maybe have a job or two while working on his game.


it was a different time for good and bad

[Milbuck]

westbrook definitely pads his boards.. i watch steven adams clear the house out only for him to snipe it away all the time. But he's still an all time great rebounder for a guard. For somebody with a poverty vertical WB has perfect timing for snatching it violently out of the air. He is a basketball magnet
The whole point of Westbrook grabbing boards is so he can initiate in the full court and push the tempo, where he's most dangerous. It's just smart basketball.

[Wally450]

I doubt he'll maintain it, could probably do like 30/8/8 or 30/9/9.

If he stepped up his defense, the Thunder could be insane.

[Jasper]

name a player that is supposed to be a leader of his team , and had in a close game last night 3 boards, 3 dimes and 2 steal , and 25 points from 4-11 shooting ?? :confusedshrug: Hero Ball Curry
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Not true.

In 61-62 when Big O had his triple double season the league average was 23.9 assists per game, this year it is 22.0 assist per game, so there are fewer assists now than there were back then.It's subjective and it's changed. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123855027541776617)
Until the early 1970s, most teams were awarded assists on about half of the field goals they made in a given game. That number jumped to 60% by the end of that decade and has hovered around that level ever since. (Last season, the average team was given assists on 58.4% of their made field goals.)

Dave Berri, an associate professor of economics at Southern Utah University and lead author of "Wages of Wins," a sports analysis book, says the uptick in assists is a function of players improving their shotmaking over the years. He says players in the 1950s and '60s shot poorly, so more baskets came after offensive rebounds, where no assists are awarded.Every time an assist is awarded it's a judgement call. Westbrook, for example, averages an extra assist per game at home. The home team stat keeper decides what is and isn't an assist and while it would be wrong to say they're corrupt it does influence them when awarding stats and they are more aware of the importance today than back in the 60s. In Robertson's day they didn't even use the term "triple-double," it wasn't made into a big deal until Magic came around.

[HurricaneKid]

Not true.

In 61-62 when Big O had his triple double season the league average was 23.9 assists per game, this year it is 22.0 assist per game, so there are fewer assists now than there were back then.

If Westbrook does average a triple double for a full season in 16-17, it would be a much bigger accomplishment than when Big O did it in 61-62. That said, I don't think Westbrook will average a triple double for the full season, but he might come close, which is incredible by itself.

And O was 7th on his team in reb/36.

There were 25 more possessions a game and teams shot far worse from the field.

It was a cool accomplishment and O is an all timer. But meh. 7th on your team in rebounding isn't exactly all that impressive.

[LAZERUSS]

And O was 7th on his team in reb/36.

There were 25 more possessions a game and teams shot far worse from the field.

It was a cool accomplishment and O is an all timer. But meh. 7th on your team in rebounding isn't exactly all that impressive.

Please don't give us a phoney stat like reb/36. It is meaningless. It even includes players that played 5.9 mpg and in only 58 games.

Oscar was SECOND on his team in rebounding in 61-62, at 12.5 rpg, and the leader was only at 13.0 rpg.

As for total rebounds, if you take basketball reference's team totals for the Royals at face value, they had a total of 5665, and an average of 70.8 rpg. HOWEVER, before the 68-69 season, TEAM REBOUNDS were included. Since 667-68, they have not. The Royals actually had a total of 4800 rebounds in '62, and an average of 60.0 rpg. BTW, the league average was about 62.0 rpg, and not the 71,4 that is listed.

So, in '62 the league average per team was 62.0 rpg. This year it is 44.0 rpg.

You can do the math. Today's NBA is rebounding at about 71% of what the NBA averaged in '62. Oscar's 12.5 rpg would be at 8.9 rpg in today's NBA.

Now, you can argue Westbrick's mpg, which is 35.4 mpg, compared to Oscar's 44.3 mpg. Clearly Westbrick is rebounding at a higher rate. BUT, do you honestly believe that Westbrick could sustain his level play for another 9 mpg? That is what is often loss in the Wilt discussions. Chamberlain was playing 47-48 mpg. Let him play 40 mpg, and his TRB% and eFG%'s rates would surely have been higher.

Another point. Oscar took 22.9 FGAs per game in '62, on a .478 eFG%, in a league that shot an eFG% of .426. He scored 30.8 ppg. Westbrick is taking 23.7 FGAs per game, and shooting a .471 eFG%, in a league that is shooting an eFG% of .502. His ppg average is 30.9 ppg.

Oscar was FAR more efficient in his era, than Westbrick has been in his.

[tpols]

Another point. Oscar took 22.9 FGAs per game in '62, on a .478 eFG%, in a league that shot an eFG% of .426. He scored 30.8 ppg. Westbrick is taking 23.7 FGAs per game, and shooting a .471 eFG%, in a league that is shooting an eFG% of .502. His ppg average is 30.9 ppg.

Oscar was FAR more efficient in his era, than Westbrick has been in his.



to be fair, im not sure westbrook should be punished for playing in a league where average perimeter players are much better.. the 3 pt shot being made by role players at high efficiency doesnt really change anything for a comparison between the two.

[Psileas]

:roll: Give me a break, idiot OP and whoever agrees with him. Oscar didn't have an entire team try to cater to him in order to get him the best stats he can get just because he's got supposedly no help. Oscar's stats came naturally to him, he didn't chase down, with the help of his teammates, defensive rebound after defensive rebound to pad his rebounding numbers, with his offensive rebounding stats only rising by a bit (2.3 now vs 1.7 for his career), which shows what a statmonger he is. Heck, Jerry Lucas would do no rebounding favors to anyone. He was the one chasing rebounds. Neither were all shots taken after a pass by Oscar just to give him easy assists.

Oscar had a 9.7 apg season and a 9.9 rpg season and he could have made these numbers 10+ very easily if he had decided to. He could have had 5-6 triple double seasons in a row if he cared. But why do so? Nobody was noticing anything special with having particular number combinations, unlike today, so it wasn't ever a big deal for him to chase specific milestones. The term "triple double" wasn't even coined until the early 80's or so. Before that 30/10/10 wasn't seen by anyone as any different from 40/10/5 - and that's among stat heads, because lots of casual fans would only care about scoring.

Not to mention that Oscar was the Curry/Durant of his day, the most efficient scoring small man, unlike Russell.

People like to mention pace, but they never consider stuff like this, they think the mentality of players, teams and fans was the same back then as it is now and that a simple pace adjustment gets the job done when it comes to stat comparisons across eras.

[atljonesbro]

Oscar played in an era where defense hadn't been invented yet. Just run up as fast as you can and chuck

[Cali Syndicate]

It'd be crazy if Westbrook averages a triple double and harden leads the league in points and assist but neither get the mvp.

[LAZERUSS]

to be fair, im not sure westbrook should be punished for playing in a league where average perimeter players are much better.. the 3 pt shot being made by role players at high efficiency doesnt really change anything for a comparison between the two.

What Westbrick is accomplishing this season is truly historic. But, I was just trying to put everything into perspective. I have seen those that have come up with some ridiculous formula claiming that Westbrick would have averaged something like 45-16-15 in '62.

The man is shot-jacking at an incredible rate. Again, Oscar averaged 22.9 FGA in 44.3 mpg in his '62 season. WB is at 23.7 FGA in 35.4 mpg this season.

Furthermore, move Oscar into the current era, and his FGAs are not going to go down. He averaged 22.9 FGA in '62 because that is what was called for. Does anyone honestly believe he couldn't take 22.9 FGAs in today's NBA?

So, I believe that Oscar would probably play around 40 mpg, and put up a 30-8-10 season in today's NBA. and on a considerably higher efficiency that WB has.

[ClipperRevival]

:roll: Give me a break, idiot OP and whoever agrees with him. Oscar didn't have an entire team try to cater to him in order to get him the best stats he can get just because he's got supposedly no help. Oscar's stats came naturally to him, he didn't chase down, with the help of his teammates, defensive rebound after defensive rebound to pad his rebounding numbers, with his offensive rebounding stats only rising by a bit (2.3 now vs 1.7 for his career), which shows what a statmonger he is. Heck, Jerry Lucas would do no rebounding favors to anyone. He was the one chasing rebounds. Neither were all shots taken after a pass by Oscar just to give him easy assists.

Oscar had a 9.7 apg season and a 9.9 rpg season and he could have made these numbers 10+ very easily if he had decided to. He could have had 5-6 triple double seasons in a row if he cared. But why do so? Nobody was noticing anything special with having particular number combinations, unlike today, so it wasn't ever a big deal for him to chase specific milestones. The term "triple double" wasn't even coined until the early 80's or so. Before that 30/10/10 wasn't seen by anyone as any different from 40/10/5 - and that's among stat heads, because lots of casual fans would only care about scoring.

Not to mention that Oscar was the Curry/Durant of his day, the most efficient scoring small man, unlike Russell.

People like to mention pace, but they never consider stuff like this, they think the mentality of players, teams and fans was the same back then as it is now and that a simple pace adjustment gets the job done when it comes to stat comparisons across eras.

Yet, 6'5" Elgin Baylor grabbed 13.55 rpg over his career. He played from 1959 - 1972. And when Oscar was doing his near triple double seasons, Baylor was pulling down 16.7 rpg (1959 - 1963). So yeah, no inflated stats there huh.

[LAZERUSS]

Yet, 6'5" Elgin Baylor grabbed 13.55 rpg over his career. He played from 1959 - 1972. And when Oscar was doing his near triple double seasons, Baylor was pulling down 16.7 rpg (1959 - 1963). So yeah, no inflated stats there huh.

Baylor's peak was 19.8 rpg, playing 42.9 mpg, in a league that averaged about 63 rpg per team. This 6-8 guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

LED the NBA in rpg at 15.2 rpg, in 35.8 mpg, and in a league that averaged 41.4 rpg per team.

No reasonable poster is going to claim that the players of the 60's would rebound at their rates in today's NBA, but clearly, when a guy like Love can grab 15.2 rpg, and in only 36 mpg...well, what would an athletic Baylor average? BTW, the 6-5 Barkley LED the NBA in rpg, at 14.6 rpg, in the 80's.

[Pointguard]

I doubt he'll maintain it, could probably do like 30/8/8 or 30/9/9.

If he stepped up his defense, the Thunder could be insane.
I have him at 27/8/9 which is great. I think he hit a wall 3 years ago too. The great thing is that he's winning while doing this.

[Psileas]

Yet, 6'5" Elgin Baylor grabbed 13.55 rpg over his career. He played from 1959 - 1972. And when Oscar was doing his near triple double seasons, Baylor was pulling down 16.7 rpg (1959 - 1963). So yeah, no inflated stats there huh.

Is this what I wrote? Did I ever deny pace completely?
My point is that there's no balance in these kinds of comparisons. I've practically never read neutral opinions considering different era comparisons. E.g, people are way too obssessed with pace inflating stats, but are oblivious to factors that contribute to modern inflations, and which don't necessarily show in boxscores. E.g, chasing down defensive rebounds just in order to pad your rebounding numbers, just in order to get to the triple double is something that no simple/advanced stat can "see" and "adjust". Heck, I've seen a player (can't remember who he was) who was apologizing to his fans after a somewhat bad game because he had cost them some Fantasy Points or however this stuff is called. I'm pretty sure Oscar never had a game when he'd have to apologize because he only got 7 assists and screwed up Fantasy gamblers. :oldlol:
Oscar given the green light to dominate his team stats in the same vein as Westbrook might very well have 40/15/13 seasons (on certainly lower efficiency), but probably even less team success. The fact alone that many of his seasons were almost triple doubles, but in none of these seasons did he try a big push in the last games to break the (non existent back then) TD barrier, is good evidence that he was getting his stats without trying to achieve specific statistical feats. Different mentality and ambitions across eras, and pace or PER or whichever advanced stat can do nothing to adjust this.

[egokiller]

Higher paced inflated era of Big O has his stats far inferior than Westbrooks.. plus when you factor in the level of competition.. this will be the first legit triple double season.

Yes becase the Big O had complete control of the rules and the era of competition he played against. Your attempt to discredit what Big O achieved relative to current Westbrook failed before you even started typing.

:roll:

[TiagoSimoes]

I have him at 27/8/9 which is great. I think he hit a wall 3 years ago too. The great thing is that he's winning while doing this.

What wall? He is twice the player he was 3 years ago.

[HurricaneKid]

Please don't give us a phoney stat like reb/36. It is meaningless. It even includes players that played 5.9 mpg and in only 58 games.

Oscar was SECOND on his team in rebounding in 61-62, at 12.5 rpg, and the leader was only at 13.0 rpg.

As for total rebounds, if you take basketball reference's team totals for the Royals at face value, they had a total of 5665, and an average of 70.8 rpg. HOWEVER, before the 68-69 season, TEAM REBOUNDS were included. Since 667-68, they have not. The Royals actually had a total of 4800 rebounds in '62, and an average of 60.0 rpg. BTW, the league average was about 62.0 rpg, and not the 71,4 that is listed.

So, in '62 the league average per team was 62.0 rpg. This year it is 44.0 rpg.

You can do the math. Today's NBA is rebounding at about 71% of what the NBA averaged in '62. Oscar's 12.5 rpg would be at 8.9 rpg in today's NBA.

Now, you can argue Westbrick's mpg, which is 35.4 mpg, compared to Oscar's 44.3 mpg. Clearly Westbrick is rebounding at a higher rate. BUT, do you honestly believe that Westbrick could sustain his level play for another 9 mpg? That is what is often loss in the Wilt discussions. Chamberlain was playing 47-48 mpg. Let him play 40 mpg, and his TRB% and eFG%'s rates would surely have been higher.

Another point. Oscar took 22.9 FGAs per game in '62, on a .478 eFG%, in a league that shot an eFG% of .426. He scored 30.8 ppg. Westbrick is taking 23.7 FGAs per game, and shooting a .471 eFG%, in a league that is shooting an eFG% of .502. His ppg average is 30.9 ppg.

Oscar was FAR more efficient in his era, than Westbrick has been in his.

How is the rate at which you rebound immaterial? You want to take out guys that played 58 and 60 games? Fine. He was 5th on the team in rebounding rate. Westbrook is 2nd, just behind Kanter.

I actually hate it. I think the Cavs could provide LeBron the 1.6 reb/gm (what he is deficient to be avg a triple double) the way the Thunder provide RWB his rebounds. But its not conducive to maximizing your chances of winning. He is a blast to watch but you know its not winning basketball.

[ClipperRevival]

Baylor's peak was 19.8 rpg, playing 42.9 mpg, in a league that averaged about 63 rpg per team. This 6-8 guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

LED the NBA in rpg at 15.2 rpg, in 35.8 mpg, and in a league that averaged 41.4 rpg per team.

No reasonable poster is going to claim that the players of the 60's would rebound at their rates in today's NBA, but clearly, when a guy like Love can grab 15.2 rpg, and in only 36 mpg...well, what would an athletic Baylor average? BTW, the 6-5 Barkley LED the NBA in rpg, at 14.6 rpg, in the 80's.

Dude, when is the last time a SG/SF at 6'5" peak at 19.8 rpg in the modern era? Or put up 16.7 over a 5 year span? Those are video game numbers for the modern era and amazing numbers for centers, let along a SG/SF.

Rebounding numbers are clearly inflated for that era due to pace AND lack of efficiency (more rebounding opportunities) for that era.

[imdaman99]

I actually hate it. I think the Cavs could provide LeBron the 1.6 reb/gm (what he is deficient to be avg a triple double) the way the Thunder provide RWB his rebounds. But its not conducive to maximizing your chances of winning. He is a blast to watch but you know its not winning basketball.
Actually, with no Durant, Westbrook getting the rebound and pushing the ball might be their best chance at scoring. Westbrook stealing rebounds from his own teammates is good for their team, as crazy as that sounds :roll:

[Rocketswin2013]

:roll: Give me a break, idiot OP and whoever agrees with him. Oscar didn't have an entire team try to cater to him in order to get him the best stats he can get just because he's got supposedly no help. Oscar's stats came naturally to him, he didn't chase down, with the help of his teammates, defensive rebound after defensive rebound to pad his rebounding numbers, with his offensive rebounding stats only rising by a bit (2.3 now vs 1.7 for his career), which shows what a statmonger he is. Heck, Jerry Lucas would do no rebounding favors to anyone. He was the one chasing rebounds. Neither were all shots taken after a pass by Oscar just to give him easy assists.

Oscar had a 9.7 apg season and a 9.9 rpg season and he could have made these numbers 10+ very easily if he had decided to. He could have had 5-6 triple double seasons in a row if he cared. But why do so? Nobody was noticing anything special with having particular number combinations, unlike today, so it wasn't ever a big deal for him to chase specific milestones. The term "triple double" wasn't even coined until the early 80's or so. Before that 30/10/10 wasn't seen by anyone as any different from 40/10/5 - and that's among stat heads, because lots of casual fans would only care about scoring.

Not to mention that Oscar was the Curry/Durant of his day, the most efficient scoring small man, unlike Russell.

People like to mention pace, but they never consider stuff like this, they think the mentality of players, teams and fans was the same back then as it is now and that a simple pace adjustment gets the job done when it comes to stat comparisons across eras.
I just don't get how you can value offensive rebounds, yet turn around and not value defensive ones.

Unless you mean ORebs are harder to get but even then Westbrook is top 20 in offensive rebounds this season. He's the only guard in the top 60.

[aj1987]

What Westbrick is accomplishing this season is truly historic. But, I was just trying to put everything into perspective. I have seen those that have come up with some ridiculous formula claiming that Westbrick would have averaged something like 45-16-15 in '62.

The man is shot-jacking at an incredible rate. Again, Oscar averaged 22.9 FGA in 44.3 mpg in his '62 season. WB is at 23.7 FGA in 35.4 mpg this season.

Furthermore, move Oscar into the current era, and his FGAs are not going to go down. He averaged 22.9 FGA in '62 because that is what was called for. Does anyone honestly believe he couldn't take 22.9 FGAs in today's NBA?

So, I believe that Oscar would probably play around 40 mpg, and put up a 30-8-10 season in today's NBA. and on a considerably higher efficiency that WB has.
He could take 23 shots a game, but he'd be shooting in the low 30's in the modern era. So, he'd average 15/5/5 at best while playing 45 minutes a game.

[Marchesk]

He could take 23 shots a game, but he'd be shooting in the low 30's in the modern era. So, he'd average 15/5/5 at best while playing 45 minutes a game.

Look at how powerful those legs were:

http://allhdwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Oscar-Robertson-3.jpg

Now look at Nash:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Steve+Nash+Golden+State+Warriors+v+Los+Angeles+Ib4 cnsj_RSIl.jpg

[aj1987]

This dude never topped 50 in a game ever:

https://s21.postimg.org/3t22ezb5j/27nash_600.jpg
https://s21.postimg.org/p1fqwepmf/27nash_1_450.jpg


This skinny beta mental midget hit 100:

https://s21.postimg.org/3qi6s57hz/120314_wilt_chamberlain_600.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

The MODERN ERA...

This borderline six-footer, who weighed 165 lbs was routinely leading the NBA in scoring...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fd/ea/ec/fdeaec6736d0fb570913d6dfdd2eeb98.jpg


This 6-3 dork STARTS in the current NBA, and is a career .368 shooter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=993UTozPECc

https://www.minnpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_detail/images/articles/RickyRubioDribbling640.jpg



This 6-8 stumble-bum RAN AWAY with the RPG title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Kevin-Love-Cavs.jpg


This 5-10 guy completely shut-down the Jester in the Finals...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg


How about this TWO-TIME MVP?

http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/steve-nash-carries-a-man-purse.jpg


How about this TWO-TIME MVP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3yMXJSfHS8

http://expressionsstores.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/54496dba3345c9ef71a9b3ab1b9d8aa5_crop_north.png


Yep...we are truly blessed to witness such physical marvels in the current NBA.

[aj1987]

All of them make the mental midget look like a freaking twig. That literally proves how shit the '60's were. Pathetic. :roll:

Lets also not forget that the choker averaged 18 PPG in the Finals on shit efficiency and was shut down up 140lb janitors and car salesmen. Barea would drop over 150 in that garbage ass era.

[HurricaneKid]

Actually, with no Durant, Westbrook getting the rebound and pushing the ball might be their best chance at scoring. Westbrook stealing rebounds from his own teammates is good for their team, as crazy as that sounds :roll:

On ESPN's NBA show they showed clips of him just leaving his guy to go to the basket to steal rebounds. Only to watch his guy hit open shots. And it happens a lot. His chasing this milestone is making the Thunder a worse team.

[TiagoSimoes]

On ESPN's NBA show they showed clips of him just leaving his guy to go to the basket to steal rebounds. Only to watch his guy hit open shots. And it happens a lot. His chasing this milestone is making the Thunder a worse team.

You realize the thunder are 6-2 this season and 39-6 for his career when westbrook has a triple double? Very debatable if it will lead to playoff wins, but there his no debate on his impact during the regular season.