Luke Walton rant thread

[tamaraw08]

I still like Luke but...
I question why his most valuable player like Lou Williams with a PER of 23.57 is just playing 25 mins per game while Brandon Ingram with probably the lowest PER in the league at 6.42 is playing 29 mins the last 10 games.
Yes, I know there is a learning curve and Brandon will get better as he is learning etc but the team is suffering from turmoil and dejection. Each loss is causing a major minus in their confidence. They drop their shoulders, feet get a bit slower, hands are tighter etc.
In last nights defeat vs Dallas at home, Ingram played for 32 mins, generating 3pts at 5 shots while Lou played a measly 21 mins, scored 10 pts at only 7 shots.
Yes, I know Ingram do some things that don't appear in the stats etc but at the end of the day, the players you play NEED TO PRODUCE.
I also wonder why certain players barely provide screens unlike Steph Curry.
Clarkson and Russell just wait of the ball instead of doing other stuff.
There's also very minimal post up plays as they over rely on perimeter shots.
Their defense still at the bottom of the league.
The first month, there was excitement as players are "buying" to his vision.
Great ball movement, players working hard etc but now..... There is still movement but it seems like teams have paid more attention and adjusted....

[SoCalMike]

This season is part of a process to develop players for the long term. To figure out who is going to fit into the new system and who is not. Who is going to mature and who is not. So, while playing Lou Williams more may result in a few more wins for the Lakers, it will not enable them to develop as a team. This has to be viewed as a multi-year process. The journey.....

[tamaraw08]

This season is part of a process to develop players for the long term. To figure out who is going to fit into the new system and who is not. Who is going to mature and who is not. So, while playing Lou Williams more may result in a few more wins for the Lakers, it will not enable them to develop as a team. This has to be viewed as a multi-year process. The journey.....
Yeah but I strongly believe that there is such a thing as playing a kid too much esp if they are "expected to be stars and they are struggling big time"

The guy could not even hit 2 straight FTs and has become really passive out there averaging 5 attempts in 31 minutes. If it's up to him, he'll rather not take any shot at all but he knows he'll be told to try.
Kwame Brown, Chauncey Billups, Bargnani etc have been expected to be stars and were rushed into learning the ropes asap so they put them out there, take risks and learn on the go. Some like Chauncey make it eventually some have their confidence shattered and become duds.
Baseball and football players esp QBs are not rushed for a reason....And again, I am not saying to bench the kid but 31 mins when everyone knows he is struggling is too much imo.
Another thing is he knows his teammates like Lou and Young are REALLY playing hard and making a lot of impact and yet they are playing less than him, whatever happened to earning your minutes bec of strong play rather than," hey you are young, I don't care if you are playing like crap, you get more minutes regardless"
Lastly, the whole team's morale has been really low. They badly need wins IMO bec the energy and confidence level has been eroding.

[SoCalMike]

I dont the Lakers goals are to win games (although they want wins). It is for them to get experience on the floor, hence playing time.

Williams is in the game when it matters (i.e. 4th period).

I think we have to be fair here and give the Lakers and Walton a couple of years to figure this out. The Lakers were managed horribly in the last 5+ years so I think stability at the Coaching level is more important than this season or a veterans playing time.

[tamaraw08]

I dont the Lakers goals are to win games (although they want wins). It is for them to get experience on the floor, hence playing time.

Williams is in the game when it matters (i.e. 4th period).

I think we have to be fair here and give the Lakers and Walton a couple of years to figure this out. The Lakers were managed horribly in the last 5+ years so I think stability at the Coaching level is more important than this season or a veterans playing time.

Would it really hurt the growth of these young players if you limit their playing time to 20-24 mins instead of 31 minutes esp if they struggling big time?
IMO, no. I think there is a correlation that Brandon has been very passive with his shots lately, taking a combined 10 attempts in 62 minutes in 2 games which actually is hurting the team IMO. He actually took just 3 3pt shots in 93 minutes which lead to some of his teammates taking bad shots.
Yes, yes it is a "process" a teaching/learning time etc but what about the paying fans? :(
Call me selfish, but I just spent hundreds of hard earned cash to see them play... and lost after lost to bad teams mind you..:cry:
The past 12 bad losses have taken it's toll to their psyche, doubts, frustration and confusion arise, yes, I might be exaggerating a bit but I doubt it....

[kkinchen]

http://www.lakersnation.com/as-lakers-flounder-time-to-shake-up-the-rotation/2017/01/14/

I have been saying this for weeks, and would love to see what some of the guys coming off the bench can do in a starters role.

Its definitely time to shake things up regardless of how much guys are getting paid.

[Big_Dogg]

http://www.lakersnation.com/as-lakers-flounder-time-to-shake-up-the-rotation/2017/01/14/

I have been saying this for weeks, and would love to see what some of the guys coming off the bench can do in a starters role.

Its definitely time to shake things up regardless of how much guys are getting paid.

I tend to agree, I've been thinking this for the last month or so myself

At the end of the day, what can it hurt, the only thing that will come out of it is the benefit of getting the young guys playing time and being on the court together

[kkinchen]

I give Walton credit on how he has developed our young players individually, but I also think he has overlooked certain player combinations that could be really effective. We know Black and Robinson play well together. I also wanted to see Russell/Clarkson on the floor more, as well as Williams/Young and Nance Jr/Randle

[tamaraw08]

I give Walton credit on how he has developed our young players individually, but I also think he has overlooked certain player combinations that could be really effective. We know Black and Robinson play well together. I also wanted to see Russell/Clarkson on the floor more, as well as Williams/Young and Nance Jr/Randle

Please explain to me why your player with the highest PER in the team is just playing 24 mins/game:rant
It's not like he is 38 years old and has already booked a reservation in advance for room in a nursing home. He is 30 and still has a 2 year contract and can still give you 4 quality years if handled properly.
Nick Young whose been really working hard on defense is shooting 41% from the 3pt line and still is just playing 26 minutes, less than Deng. :facepalm
I understand that Ingram needs to play and be allowed to make mistakes and learn but I strongly believe that there is such a thing as over exposure esp if he is struggling big time.
Boxers can't "over train", We can't take too much Vitamin A bec it's toxic.....
Ingram is becoming really passive out there and it's affecting the team's overall flow. Fine, they need to play him extensive minutes, but why the hell did Luke Put Zubac in his dog house for 30 games. :wtf: Is he playing favorites then?

[dd24]

I think Walton is doing the right thing. At this point he's trying to get the young guys experience. Nothing against Williams but he is not the future of this franchise. Luke needs to develop players who will be here for the long haul. Plus it's not going to be the worst thing in the world if the Lakers end up with one of the top 2 picks in the draft :D If the Lakers somehow ended up with one of those picks Lou Williams will be gone before next season probably. The top 4 picks are likely PG's. If the Lakers somehow were able to make a trade anyhow it would involve Williams or Clarkson more than likely. I think Williams is a good player but someone is way over rating his play.

[tamaraw08]

I think Walton is doing the right thing. At this point he's trying to get the young guys experience. Nothing against Williams but he is not the future of this franchise. Luke needs to develop players who will be here for the long haul. Plus it's not going to be the worst thing in the world if the Lakers end up with one of the top 2 picks in the draft :D If the Lakers somehow ended up with one of those picks Lou Williams will be gone before next season probably. The top 4 picks are likely PG's. If the Lakers somehow were able to make a trade anyhow it would involve Williams or Clarkson more than likely. I think Williams is a good player but someone is way over rating his play.

Fair enough, but my question to you with his logic is how come the other young kid Zubac was benched for 35 games. :confusedshrug:
After 3 strong games Luke last night decided to play a veteran Tarik Black 16 more minutes than his "future center", while the struggling Ingram is still managing to play 22 minutes.
I would understand it if Brandon is shutting down his guy every game but according to basketball reference, his defensive rating is at 115 which is not great, a defensive +/- negative 0.8, defensive win shares of .4. :eek:
Again I am not saying bench the kid, ofcourse he needs the time to learn but why the disparity? If your main priority is to teach and guide then so be it, but don't make preferential treatment.

[dd24]

It's just because of the matchup problems he had. Boston went small ball. Gortat was killing him the other night. He's just now getting integrated into the system. He'll have ups and downs.

[tamaraw08]

It's just because of the matchup problems he had. Boston went small ball. Gortat was killing him the other night. He's just now getting integrated into the system. He'll have ups and downs.

So there were match up problems during the 35 games he didn't play:confusedshrug:
There are other slow footed centers in the league and they manage.
Last night, he played 4 minutes and STILL, the Lakers SUCKED at defense, giving up 62 pts in the first half, 113 for the game.
First 45 games, with Zubac not playing 35 games and the Lakers is worst in defense, can't blame that on the young boy and again it's not like Brandon is not overmatched at times. During the end of the 2nd period, Crowder overpowered him inside which resulted to a 3pt play, but hey, give the kid some playing time, he needs it, to learn.... but when it comes to Ivica, nope, he's too slow, sit his butt. :(

[dd24]

[QUOTE] Luke Walton said he discussed changing starting lineup with GM Mitch Kupchak and EVP Jim Buss. Both were supportive, he said.

[tamaraw08]

He said he'll be playing Zubac more. Walton has the ok to go with the youth movement from management. I would have to imagine he'll play. I don't think it's uncommon for a 2nd round pick to not play early on in his rookie season. I would say it's more rare that he's getting a solid chance this early. Heck most 2nd rounders don't last long in the NBA and are only on rosters for cap reasons. At least we will get to see if he has a future in the league.

So what do you think is happening with Ingram's shooting right now. I have never seen a young shooter struggle so much with his shooting. Is he lifting weights?
I still can't believe they didn't go after a top notch shot doctor/guru like Spur's Chip Engelland last summer. If they overpay Mozgov and Deng, they can surely offer enough money to Chip come here. :eek:

[dd24]

I don't think it's rare for rookies to shoot bad. It's pretty obvious Ingram isn't the next Durant as he isn't just dominating as a rookie. With that said it still seems like he can be a very good player some day. It's going to take him a couple years. I think the Lakers young core is solid. Now they just need that draft pick that will come in and look like a perennial all-star. Hopefully they can suck for the rest of this season and the Lakers keep their pick. The top 3 are looking like very good players thus far. Then it will take adding solid vets around them. If they could just land a free agent that is proven at that point they have a very good future. I think with Magic and Walton it will help the FA pitches.

[tamaraw08]

I don't think it's rare for rookies to shoot bad. It's pretty obvious Ingram isn't the next Durant as he isn't just dominating as a rookie. With that said it still seems like he can be a very good player some day. It's going to take him a couple years. I think the Lakers young core is solid. Now they just need that draft pick that will come in and look like a perennial all-star. Hopefully they can suck for the rest of this season and the Lakers keep their pick. The top 3 are looking like very good players thus far. Then it will take adding solid vets around them. If they could just land a free agent that is proven at that point they have a very good future. I think with Magic and Walton it will help the FA pitches.

He's not just shooting badly at times, but most of the time.
from 5-9 feet, he is shooting 21%
10-14 feet, 31%
15-19 feet, 33%
and 29% from beyond the 3pt line. Honestly I can't think of any other rookies shoot this bad, I mean, can you?:confusedshrug:

[dd24]

And he's shooting 36.7 overall. It's bad. I'm not trying to say it's not, but he's a rookie. If it was his 2nd or 3rd year I'd be concerned. Right now it seems like he's still learning a lot and looks like he has a bunch of potential. The last 3 games he's shot really well. Maybe he's starting to figure it out.

[tamaraw08]

John Ireland, play by play radio announcer said he is officially scared for this team. He said on his radio program Mason and Ireland show yesterday, that for the first time, he has major concerns for a young team that lost for more than 35 pts to the worst in the league. It has happened before at Dallas, now this, it's clearly the lack of effort and "mailing it in". Ireland was very disturbed about the lack of effort, allowing 4 straight dunks..
Certain key pieces not named Ingram seemed to give up so easily feeling entitled, and now you can't blame Byron Scott for being too strict and over bearing. John said you would NOT FIND game tapes of transcendent players like Lebron etc mail it in like this. That the OKC management identified right away which players would not be that good in the future and so they traded Jeff Green, so maybe the Lakers need to do the same with some of them before they lose their value.
Ireland play the sound byte of Luke, saying it's a privilege, not a right to work for the historic Lakers...
Fisher: If there are players who doesn't want to play for the team, please let the management know so they can accommodate their wishes.
My question was how come none of the staff at least show some emotion, yell at somebody, drop the clip board etc and let this team know this is NOT OKAY. :rant

[dd24]

Just let the team tank this season lol. They really need another top draft pick.

[tamaraw08]

Just let the team tank this season lol. They really need another top draft pick.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't care if they lose all their games the rest of the year, doesn't mean though that they will simply lay down but be run over. :facepalm
Compete, work hard and care. Lose by less than 10 pts.