PDA

View Full Version : Pistons 2017 Off Season Moves



dd24
03-23-2017, 01:21 PM
Since there isn't all that much to look forward to this season and there's starting to be some rumors going around about this summer already I figured I would start a new thread.

I've been reading a lot lately that the Nets are very interested in KCP. Everyone says they're going to offer a max deal to him. I guess the decent thing about him being restricted is we will get the chance to see if this is true or not and it's not just a random bidding war. It also kinda shows the state of SG's in the NBA. There's just not a lot of great ones right now. He'd definitely put up better numbers in New Jersey since his usage rate would likely go way up. I just wonder if the Pistons are going to match.

Detroit has put themselves in a really bad spot in the draft again. If they were going to not match on KCP there isn't much out there to fill his shoes in the draft where they are at. Maybe Luke Kennard would be around. At least he's a very good 3 point shooter which is something the Pistons have needed for a while. Outside of that there's probably going to be a lot of big guys around at that point. Maybe TJ Leaf or Harry Giles falls. They could look at Bam Adebayo. Some mocks have us taking SG Donovan Mitchell out of Louisville. I really don't think this draft is as deep as some are saying. I like the top guys and outside of that it's a gamble. I would take that gamble on Giles. He'd be right there in the lottery if it wasn't for injuries. He's young and may get past it though. The thing with taking a big is we just drafted Ellenson at about the same area last year.... Unless they trade Harris, Morris, or Leurer I can't see any PT opening up next season. I don't see them trading Morris or Leurer. Both are on cap friendly contracts.

Aussie Dunker
03-29-2017, 06:14 AM
Perhaps we should have taken Booker last year, instead of Stanley, as he would be a decent replacement if we let KCP walk ........ *sigh

dd24
03-29-2017, 09:02 AM
I think a lot of teams would have taken Booker over their picks.... but yeah he's definitely the better player. Although Detroit would have just sat him and never developed him so it's tough to say how good he would have ended up.

dd24
04-07-2017, 12:54 PM
I wonder if it's almost a better idea to let a team like the Nets have KCP for the max and then we make an offer for a guy like Tim Hardaway Jr. He's been amazing since about January. He can hit the outside shot and get 15-20 ppg. He's shown that he can grab a few rebounds and pass when asked to. I feel like he's a kind of under the radar guy. He's restricted, but I would imagine we could make an offer that Atlanta wouldn't match and save some money on KCP in the deal. Obviously KCP is the better defender. If he takes a max offer from NJ he'll basically be saying he never wants to win though. Not that Detroit is headed in the right direction, but they're still better off than the Nets.

dd24
04-08-2017, 02:15 PM
After last night who is ready to trade Dre and make Boban the starter? :lol :D

dd24
04-17-2017, 01:37 PM
Apparently Detroit is going to match any offer for KCP.
http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/report_pistons_will_match_offer_sheets_for_kentavi ous_caldwell_pope/s1_127_23731459

dd24
04-20-2017, 02:20 PM
The top FA's under 25


https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonogus/2017/04/20/nba-free-agency-otto-porter-tim-hardaway-jr-and-the-top-five-free-agents-under-25-years-old/#2f04a6f853c2

And that's why KCP is getting paid. I did mention Hardaway Jr. too. I like his game (offensively).

Aussie Dunker
04-24-2017, 06:50 PM
I think we need to keep KCP - I believe he is a top 5 SG in this league and is just about to enter the best 5 years of his career. Defense and stretching the floor are the two things he can be elite at, which are the most valuable commodities in today's league...

dd24
04-24-2017, 09:23 PM
I think at this point I'd much rather have KCP than Reggie if we had to make a choice of who to keep because of their contracts. Before the season I wouldn't have said that. KCP is slowly coming along. It takes SG's so long to develop most of the time. Once he's in his prime he has a chance to be very good. Hopefully he keeps working after he gets paid. That's the one thing that scares me. Some of these guys take a step back after their contract year.

Nastradamus
05-10-2017, 11:24 AM
Perhaps we should have taken Booker last year, instead of Stanley, as he would be a decent replacement if we let KCP walk ........ *sigh

Letting KCP walk is out of the question regardless, lets be clear on that.

That said, I sure as hell wish we landed Booker or Turner.

Nastradamus
05-10-2017, 12:02 PM
I think a lot of teams would have taken Booker over their picks.... but yeah he's definitely the better player. Although Detroit would have just sat him and never developed him so it's tough to say how good he would have ended up.

No, just no

dd24
05-10-2017, 02:54 PM
No, just no
You can't argue that we have done a terrible job developing young talent.

dd24
06-15-2017, 01:43 AM
More Drummond trade rumors....

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/6/14/15804724/andre-drummond-repeats-trade-deadline-eyes-tweet-nba-trade-speculation

If the Celtics wanted to give up the 1st pick for him I'd do it. Grab Fultz, then draft a center with the 12 pick. Let Stanley and Ellenson play next year along with those two. Move Reggie for another pick in a following year. Blow up this mediocrity. Keep KCP. That would finally be the young core I'd be excited about. I'm not sure who else we'd need to take back from the Celtics cap wise to make it work. I have to imagine the two sides have discussed it. I'm sure there's a super low chance of it happening anyway around it.

Aussie Dunker
06-16-2017, 10:50 PM
There is no way they would give up the #1 for him, absolutely no way. It would be a different package, if it were to happen

dd24
06-17-2017, 01:16 AM
Looks like they are trying to trade that #1 pick for a bunch more picks. Then I could see them telling the Pistons they could have the 76ers pick for 12 and Drummond...

dd24
06-19-2017, 01:33 PM
Our biggest move is going to be when the Pacers move Paul George. Then we won't have to face him in this division anymore lol.

Aussie Dunker
06-20-2017, 12:14 AM
So apparently Lakers looking to shop Russell for a top 12 pick....

#12 for Russell? What are your thoughts?... He is still 21 years old and hasn't had the best induction into the NBA, playing a part of Kobe's farewell year and then for a very poor / young team this year.

I do not necessarily like him, but it is hard to argue against his offensive skill and potential. Just 2 years ago people were comparing him to Curry coming out of college. He will never be Curry - but he can get a lotttttt better.

dd24
06-20-2017, 12:55 AM
I can't see why the Lakers would move him for just that. He's better than anyone we could draft at 12 more than likely. I'd definitely do it.

Aussie Dunker
06-20-2017, 02:17 AM
I don't think they see a good fit with him and Ball, and they are keen on Collins and Kennard, one and maybe both will be available at #12. Maybe they see a better long term fit with one of those guys, Ball, and then Paul George. Who knows, but they are looking for a top 12 pick for Russell...

Z.Collins / Zubac
Randle / Nance
George
Ingram
Ball / Clarkson

dd24
06-20-2017, 09:07 AM
I think Russell and Ball are a good fit together actually. If they were going to move him it would make much more sense to do it for Paul George.

dd24
06-20-2017, 02:26 PM
If Lowry is really going to leave Toronto since they don't want to give him a 5 year deal Detroit should look into a sign and trade. Move Reggie over there so they still have a PG. Throw in what you need to make it work in the cap. Instant upgrade. Unfortunately I'm sure he wouldn't want to sign in Detroit.

Aussie Dunker
06-20-2017, 06:16 PM
This would go against everything that you have been previously saying. Lowry is a good to great PG in this league, somewhere in the 2nd tier, perhaps ranked somewhere between 7 and 10th best PG. However is on the wrong side of the age spectrum, and good chance his last 3 years will be better than his next 3 years. This is an upgrade I 100% agree, but not a move that will shift us forwards from meritocracy... (correct me if I am wrong mate?)

I however would love to see Lowry on our team and would test out how much they would want in return. I think Lowry and KCP would be an amazing back court, and Dre would work well off him

dd24
06-20-2017, 09:18 PM
No more getting Russell. He's going to NJ.

Aussie Dunker
06-22-2017, 02:40 AM
Apparently we got offered Deandre Jordan for Dre straight swap,

We said no - Dre 5 years younger and 4 years left on contract compared to Jordan's 1

dd24
06-22-2017, 09:03 AM
Apparently we got offered Deandre Jordan for Dre straight swap,

We said no - Dre 5 years younger and 4 years left on contract compared to Jordan's 1

That would be a really dumb trade. That tells me the Clippers think that Paul and Blake are going to leave. If they do then Jordan is out next season. They're trying to lock someone in. Paul to the Spurs. I wonder where Blake ends up. Celtics, Thunder, or Wizards possibly.

dd24
06-22-2017, 02:19 PM
Another thing makes me think CP3 is headed to the Spurs too. They are trying to trade LMA for a lottery pick to make cap space. I still think the Pistons should look at that. We aren't getting a better player at 12. LMA is a good fit next to Dre.

dd24
06-22-2017, 04:38 PM
Kings are still trying to get Drummond.
https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2017/6/22/15855212/nba-trade-rumor-sacramento-kings-andre-drummond-detroit-pistons

The idea of Afflalo and Koustos for Drummond is sickening. No way that should be done. I'd take both of their lottery picks though.

Aussie Dunker
06-22-2017, 06:30 PM
Would you do Dre for #10 and WCS?

I would

But their asking price is way too high, wanting us to throw in our #12 in any of those trades

The suns supposedly offered #4 for Deandre Jordan (which I find strange!) if that is the case, I would do Drummond for #4 in a heart beat. If that happened, how would you work our #4 and #12 picks?

#4 Fox
#12 Collins if he slips a little, otherwise if gone hold off until our pick in which a team from the late teens see's a guy they love, trade down with them, gain another asset, and take someone like Giles or I really like Anigbogu (a lot).

dd24
06-22-2017, 06:37 PM
Would you do Dre for #10 and WCS?

I would

But their asking price is way too high, wanting us to throw in our #12 in any of those trades

The suns supposedly offered #4 for Deandre Jordan (which I find strange!) if that is the case, I would do Drummond for #4 in a heart beat. If that happened, how would you work our #4 and #12 picks?

#4 Fox
#12 Collins if he slips a little, otherwise if gone hold off until our pick in which a team from the late teens see's a guy they love, trade down with them, gain another asset, and take someone like Giles or I really like Anigbogu (a lot).

I would have answered that 4 & 12 scenario the exact same, and I also would do that in a heart beat. I feel like it's a win win. The Suns would do some damage in the West with their guards and a real C. Plus Bender would be a nice fit next to Dre.

The Suns offered Bledsoe for Mudiay and the 13 pick to the Nuggets. Doesn't make much sense lol.

dd24
06-28-2017, 04:13 PM
The Rockets have been busy today. People may think it's CP3 that's bringing them closer to a championship.... but wait there's more. This is the one that gets them over the top of Golden State!!
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/detroit-pistons-trade-guard/forward-darrun-hilliard-houston-rockets
Gave him up for nothing. Makes sense. They only had a couple roster spots and need a 3rd PG and C. This clears one spot for them. I wonder if cash considerations means like $5. I would assume this helps the cap situation for Houston.

Aussie Dunker
06-28-2017, 06:48 PM
The Rockets have been busy today. People may think it's CP3 that's bringing them closer to a championship.... but wait there's more. This is the one that gets them over the top of Golden State!!
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/detroit-pistons-trade-guard/forward-darrun-hilliard-houston-rockets
Gave him up for nothing. Makes sense. They only had a couple roster spots and need a 3rd PG and C. This clears one spot for them. I wonder if cash considerations means like $5. I would assume this helps the cap situation for Houston.

Welllll Hilliard did more for us than Middleton did, and look at him go now!.. haha, but I am fairly sure Hilliard will make a fine D-League player.

In saying that, Houston lost a lot of depth in that trade, and Hilliard has potential to be a serviceable deep threat for a team who loves to jack up treys. Might find a nice little role at the end of their bench actually. He doesn't offer much else than the long ball and from all accounts a great guy around the Locker room

dd24
06-28-2017, 07:07 PM
From the sounds of it he doesn't have a guaranteed deal so the Rockets can waive him and save his contract against their cap space. The Rockets want to make another move....

dd24
07-02-2017, 01:43 PM
This is why I'm going to be calling for SVG to get fired pretty soon.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-pistons-add-shooting-agree-181227196.html

We just gave Langston Galloway 3 years 21 million. Sure he's a decent shooter and Detroit needs shooters. But we just paid all that money to a bench player and it could ruin our chances to keep KCP.

dd24
07-02-2017, 01:59 PM
I'm assuming they think Kennard is the eventual starter at that spot and they're letting KCP go.

Aussie Dunker
07-02-2017, 06:43 PM
Seems like interest for KCP has been lower than expected.

We really did get found out last year with our depth, especially at Guard.

I am really liking Jackson in our Summer League team, but he is a similar type of guard as Ish. Galloway provides deep shooting depth which is a nice contrast.

3 years 21 mill is really not all that bad/ 7 mill per year in this day and age is about what a rotational player will cost you.

I would rather spend 7 mill on a guy who can provide something in 10 - 15 minutes than pay 3 - 4 mill for a guy who doesn't belong in the NBA

dd24
07-02-2017, 07:20 PM
I'm not saying he got over paid. It is what the market pays for a player like that. I just don't think it was a smart move. There's teams that have a ton of cap space that are going to try to make a move on a guy like KCP and the Pistons will need to spend a lot to keep him.

dd24
07-02-2017, 07:29 PM
I think SVG has to find a way to get Ellenson some more minutes this season. He's been shooting the ball very well in summer league so far. It would make sense to move Leuer. Try to get a draft pick or something like that. I actually like what Leuer did for us last season. I just don't see any other way to free up minutes unless they trade Harris or Morris which I don't see them doing at this point. Harris was probably our best player last season. Which is pretty sad and part of the reason this team isn't that good. But with that I don't see them moving him just yet.

Aussie Dunker
07-02-2017, 09:26 PM
Yeah it's a tough call. Ellenson has looked like a man amongst boys at Summer League - the way he has been splashing in that turn around J after posting his man down. Looks smooth and confident!

Leur has one of the best contracts in the NBA and has 3 more years to run on it. I think we would be crazy to move him. I would love to see him play backup C more than PF.

I think potentially moving Harris or Morris would be a better option, as it would free up SF minutes for Stanley, and also PF minutes for Ellenson.

Dre 32 / Leur 12 / Boban 4
Harris 30 / Ellenson 12 / Morris 6
Morris 22 / Stanley 20 / KCP 6
KCP 28 / Kennard 15 / Stanley 5
Reggie 28 / Ish 12 / Galloway 8

dd24
07-03-2017, 02:35 AM
They're all on pretty good contracts, besides maybe Tobias.

dd24
07-03-2017, 01:55 PM
The Pistons are rated as one of the biggest losers of free agency so far.
https://sports.yahoo.com/winners-losers-first-day-nba-120329444.html

That Galloway move will haunt us for a while.

dd24
07-07-2017, 11:21 AM
Looks like KCP won't be back. I haven't seen the exact details but we traded Marcus Morris for Avery Bradley. Not sure how this move makes sense for the Pistons since we get a slightly better defender and a worse scorer. Plus we will have to extend Bradley anyhow. The Celtics get their cap space but now have Morris, Crowder, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward at SF. Stupid move on both sides. I'm officially done with SVG. I'm going to start calling for his job. I've always liked his honesty with the media, but his vision (or really lack of one) for the direction of this team is horrible. Plus his inability to cultivate young talent is too frustrating. If you have a mediocre or bad team at least one thing that can keep you interested is young promising players. Ours go to the G league. I'm done. Fire Stan. Joe D was so much better as a GM. Chauncey is looking for a job. Bring in him as GM. Bring in a new head coach.

And for the edit.... I don't think KCP is a max guy. Max guys you typically build around. But with the way max contracts get thrown around he was bound to get one. We took a major step back for slightly more cap flexibility for FA's that won't come here unless they have no other option. SVG did this because KCP was one of the last ones on the roster that he didn't have a hand in.

dd24
07-07-2017, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE]The Detroit Pistons are renouncing the rights to restricted free-agent guard Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, turning him into the marketplace

Aussie Dunker
07-08-2017, 12:31 AM
If you think KCP is better on offense - perhaps you did not watch much of Avery this season... From the eye test, I would say that Bradley is a better shooter and ball handler. KCP has a lot of potential with his outside shot but never quite worked it out.

PPG
Avery 16.3
KCP 13.8

3pt %
Avery .40%
KCP .35%

Effective FG %
Avery .533%
KCP .481%

I love this trade - my worst fear is for us to do nothing. This a) shakes the makeup of our team up a little b) spreads the floor better + better guard defense c) will allow Stanley to have more minutes and develop, and also Tobias to play more SF with Ellenson now getting some minutes as a stretch 4.

All the best to Morris - he battled hard for us, hoping he succeeds wherever he goes.

dd24
07-08-2017, 12:38 AM
I don't think anybody out there thinks Bradley is a better offensive player. I've always thought his defense is slightly over rated too. If we're going with a youth movement to Stanley Johnson and Ellenson then we need to blow this thing up more.

Aussie Dunker
07-08-2017, 01:04 AM
He shoots 40% from three - that is elite,

KCP shoots 35% from three, that is below average.

I think he is better on both sides of the ball - you didn't see NBA players tweeting about KCP missing all NBA defense 1st team where as all the stars were tweeting how ridiculous it was that he didn't make it.

I think he is better on both sides of the ball...

dd24
07-10-2017, 02:13 PM
14 FA's the Pistons can still sign.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/7/10/15941590/nba-free-agency-detroit-pistons-14-free-agents-the-pistons-can-still-add-to-their-roster

Here's how we get past Cleveland lol.

Aussie Dunker
07-10-2017, 07:56 PM
I actually wouldn't mind Beasley off our bench. I think he could play as a combo forward and be some instant offense. He can get buckets in lots of different ways. He appeals to me the most on this list.

dd24
07-11-2017, 01:20 AM
I think you and I have agreed on Beasley for a number of years now. I'm not sure why he hasn't been a solid rotation guy for a team yet. If he got starter minutes he would for sure put up over 20ppg. No doubt he's instant offense. For a league that loves wing players he sure doesn't get much of a chance anymore. Whenever he gets in the game he produces.

dd24
07-11-2017, 09:14 AM
I guess Reggie is going to be back.

[QUOTE]Shams Charania: Free agent Reggie Bullock has agreed to a two-year, $5M deal to re-sign with the Detroit Pistons, league sources tell The Vertical.

ZMonkey11
07-11-2017, 11:05 PM
14 FA's the Pistons can still sign.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/7/10/15941590/nba-free-agency-detroit-pistons-14-free-agents-the-pistons-can-still-add-to-their-roster

Here's how we get past Cleveland lol.

shoot me.

Aussie Dunker
07-11-2017, 11:14 PM
So we ended up going with Tolliver!

Let's be honest, these final roster spots are unlikely to get game time. So in that case Tolliver makes the most sense.

He is an elite locker room guy - great team and chemistry man. Will set a good professional example for our young players. Having someone like that as your 11th or 12th man is valuable. He would already have the respect of most of our squad and staff from the time he was with out before.

p.s The reason why not many teams give Beasley any thought even though he has obvious talent is that he just be such a menace on the team. He never looks interested. Probably does more damage than good being on a squad

dd24
07-12-2017, 11:09 AM
I just read a report that Detroit was talking to New Orleans about trading Jackson for Etawn Moore and Alex Ajinca. Apparently NO thinks Jackson and Holiday can play together. Horrible return for the Pistons. Again SVG does not know what he's doing when it comes to roster moves. Trade those players for a pick of some kind. Get young assets if you wanna go full tank mode.

ZMonkey11
07-12-2017, 12:13 PM
So we ended up going with Tolliver!

Let's be honest, these final roster spots are unlikely to get game time. So in that case Tolliver makes the most sense.

He is an elite locker room guy - great team and chemistry man. Will set a good professional example for our young players. Having someone like that as your 11th or 12th man is valuable. He would already have the respect of most of our squad and staff from the time he was with out before.

p.s The reason why not many teams give Beasley any thought even though he has obvious talent is that he just be such a menace on the team. He never looks interested. Probably does more damage than good being on a squad

I swear we had the same dude with the same cast. The funny thing about the article you posted was that 1/4 of the players listed were former Detroit Pistons players 2-3 years ago. We've had these good examples in the locker room, but these good guys aren't winning guys. We need good winning guys to show these kids how to do it.


I just read a report that Detroit was talking to New Orleans about trading Jackson for Etawn Moore and Alex Ajinca. Apparently NO thinks Jackson and Holiday can play together. Horrible return for the Pistons. Again SVG does not know what he's doing when it comes to roster moves. Trade those players for a pick of some kind. Get young assets if you wanna go full tank mode.

I vomited in my mouth when I read that release yesterday.

Aussie Dunker
07-12-2017, 09:10 PM
I am aware we need good winning guys, but when giving out a 3 mill deal, I think Tolliver ticks as many boxes as you can hope for in that scenario. This signing was to be no more than an 11th or 12th man on a roster, and I think Tolliver is one of the better 11th or 12th men in the league to have on a team.

I am purely looking at this move in isolation irrespective of the rest of the team / issues. We made the correct choice

dd24
07-27-2017, 12:40 PM
The Pistons signed Landry Nnoko. This off season just keeps getting better. Man it's going to be nice being back in the finals!

https://sports.yahoo.com/m/4d5ad6c3-ef26-3c83-9adf-e846fa045f55/ss_pistons-sign-big-man-landry.html

ZMonkey11
07-31-2017, 10:31 AM
Well since only roughly 4 teams have a chance of winning the finals for the next 6 years, I'm okay with mediocre play for this time period and hopefully everyone hits their prime when James, Curry and Durant retire.

But, then we have Philly and LA to contend with. Maybe I should start watching hockey again.

dd24
07-31-2017, 12:15 PM
That's part of my point. At least if we were accumulating young talent we would have something to look forward to. If we had landed a few top 5 picks there would be something to be excited about in the future. Right now we have a lot of young guys that there just isn't anything exciting about.... I'd much rather play the rookies, lose a few more games, and then have a chance at a top pick so we can get someone who we can actually build around.

Aussie Dunker
08-01-2017, 01:44 AM
Well Stanley was more highly regarded than Kawhi,

Kennard was more highly regarded than Klay,

Ellenson was a lot more regarded than Jokic

So if you add a prime Kawhi, a prime Jokic and prime Klay to this team, we are in pretty damn good shape, right?.... :pimp: :coleman:

dd24
08-01-2017, 12:21 PM
Lol, that's one way to look at it. Maybe Stanley finally has an outside shot and steps it up. Kawhi didn't have a shot when he came to the league. Something tells me Leonard worked harder at it though....

ZMonkey11
08-14-2017, 10:51 PM
Well Stanley was more highly regarded than Kawhi,

Kennard was more highly regarded than Klay,

Ellenson was a lot more regarded than Jokic

So if you add a prime Kawhi, a prime Jokic and prime Klay to this team, we are in pretty damn good shape, right?.... :pimp: :coleman:

hahahahahaha. WE IN GUYS! JUMP ON THE CHAMPIONSHIP TRAIN!

dd24
08-15-2017, 01:13 AM
Now that Bagley is officially going to Duke next season I say we tank for him lol.

dd24
08-15-2017, 02:59 PM
It's articles like this that make me feel like I'd be ok with trading Drummond lol.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/8/15/16147900/2018-nba-draft-marvin-bagley-iii-luka-doncic-michael-porter-deandre-ayton

It's not a bad year to go full tank mode. Especially when all we have to look forward to is the draft. Play the young guys. Trade the others for assets.

Aussie Dunker
08-16-2017, 06:25 PM
Now that Bagley is officially going to Duke next season I say we tank for him lol.

I think I would rather Porter!! But.... Either will do just fine thanks :pimp:

I really like that 6'8 Slovenian guard too, Doncic - but not as much as Porter, or Bagley.

dd24
10-11-2017, 02:04 PM
Stanley Johnson has not looked good so far. I'm a little scared, but it is still the preseason. With a lot less opportunity I like what Ellenson has done. He deserves more time out there.

Aussie Dunker
10-12-2017, 05:29 PM
I have loved what I have seen from Stanley on the defensive end - he is starting to look Alpha on that side of the ball. But his offense still doesn't look at all threatening...

Ellenson has been VERY impressive - I love how he puts the ball on the ground from the perimeter. His jump shot looks smooth and he always looks like he is switched on and locked in. Will be interesting to see the minutes splits between Boban, Luer and Ellenson. In a way Leur and Ellenson do the same kinds of things,

I think we might have to play Tobias at the 3 a lot more this year,

dd24
10-12-2017, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I look at Luer and Ellenson as similiar players too. I just think Ellenson has a higher ceiling offensively. If Harris has to play the 3 then I'm scared of this season already lol. He just doesn't shoot well enough from out there (not that Stanley has shown he can either....). Drummond really needs to step up too. He's just not getting any better.