Where does Tim Duncan rank all time if he wins another ship?

[lakerfreak]

He's the best PF in today's game and he might be the best of all time actually.

3 ships and 3 finals MVP's and it can be 4 and 4 this year.

Does anyone think he's the best PF ever after he retires?

[johndeeregreen]

He's already the best power forward ever.

[wally_world]

He's already the best power forward ever.

unless Larry Bird, Tom Chambers and Bob MacAdoo aren't PFs...

[johndeeregreen]

I have Bird as a 3, and Duncan is absolutely better than Chambers was. I mean, Tom Chambers was the man, but he really can't see Duncan. Never saw MacAdoo play other than stock footage and I doubt you've either, so clam up.

[L.Kizzle]

unless Larry Bird, Tom Chambers and Bob MacAdoo aren't PFs...
McAdoo was a center, Tom Chambers is Tom Chambers and Larry was a 3.

[johndeeregreen]

Tom Chambers is Tom Chambers
:oldlol:

So true. What kind of moron has Tom Chambers above Tim Duncan all-time?

[RedBlackAttack]

He's already the best power forward ever.
co-sign. It really isn't even close.

So... if Duncan wins another 'ship, does he jump Shaq? Or, is he already ahead of Shaq in an all-time rating?

[lakerfreak]

I would put him (duncan) ahead of malone only because malone never won a ship but All time including all positions....where does he rank after this 4th ship? (if he wins it)

[lakerfreak]

co-sign. It really isn't even close.

So... if Duncan wins another 'ship, does he jump Shaq? Or, is he already ahead of Shaq in an all-time rating?

Im not sure because Shaq's 4th championship had wade as the finals MVP.

Duncan would probably be MVP 4 times in the finals and Keep in mind Spurs are going to be contenders next year too most likely.

If Duncan wins 6 championships I would probably pencil him ahead of Shaq.

[WADE MONEY]

unless Larry Bird, Tom Chambers and Bob MacAdoo aren't PFs...

you must be incredibly dumb if you think Larry Bird was a PF

Tom Chambers...we're talking about "best PF ever", not "throw out a random PF who was good". You're comparing Tom Chambers, a guy who put up Gaudy stats at best, to TD, who has 3 finals MVP's.

MacAdoo hasn't won as much as TD.

[RedBlackAttack]

Im not sure because Shaq's 4th championship had wade as the finals MVP.

Duncan would probably be MVP 4 times in the finals and Keep in mind Spurs are going to be contenders next year too most likely.

If Duncan wins 6 championships I would probably pencil him ahead of Shaq.

It's a tough call because, while Duncan's reign in SA has been great, Shaq has led all three teams he has played on to the Finals and won championships with two of the three.

Tough call.

[obonpaxis]

Why in shaking hell is Tom Chambers being mentioned in this "Greatest PF of All Time" thread? I guess Malone, McHale, and Barkley were scrubs 'cause they never dunked over Mark Jackson?

That's like calling Spud Webb the greatest PG of all time.

[Kblaze8855]

Duncan was the best 4 ever by 2003.

[JtotheIzzo]

top ten all time...no doubt

if he wins again it actually hurts Shaq the most

[WADE MONEY]

Why in shaking hell is Tom Chambers being mentioned in this "Greatest PF of All Time" thread? I guess Malone, McHale, and Barkley were scrubs 'cause they never dunked over Mark Jackson?

That's like calling Spud Webb the greatest PG of all time.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

funny because it's true.

[Duncan21]

unless Larry Bird, Tom Chambers and Bob MacAdoo aren't PFs...

:roll: one of the dumbest things ive ever heard on here!

soon he'll be saying unless wally and barkley aren't SGs:hammerhead:

[BigTicket]

Best PF ever is a given already.

People ahead of him:

Wilt
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem

So 6th alltime if I were to make a list.

[20 Dimes A Game]

Top 10.

[poeticism707]

Best PF ever is a given already.

People ahead of him:

Wilt
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem

So 6th alltime if I were to make a list.

:applause:

[Duncan21]

Best PF ever is a given already.

People ahead of him:

Wilt
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem

So 6th alltime if I were to make a list.

AHEAD OF THE GREAT BILL RUSSELL:confusedshrug:

i got Tim just making the 10 eliminating Shaq from that spot

[johndough]

Yeah, he's the best PF of all time.....But it is close.IMO it goes like this:

1A. Duncan
1B. Malone
2. Barkley
3. Pettit ( admit I didnt see him play save for clips and read his accomplishments, but he gets benefit of the doubt regardless of era)
4A.Garnett
4B.Elvin Hayes
5.Kevin McHale

[Number2]

But where will Dirk end up on this list, when it's all said and done?

[BigTicket]

But where will Dirk end up on this list, when it's all said and done?

He's just barely in the HOF as it is, so rather far down, maybe with a few more good seasons he can sneak into the top 50.

[BigTicket]

AHEAD OF THE GREAT BILL RUSSELL:confusedshrug:

i got Tim just making the 10 eliminating Shaq from that spot

Yes I have him ahead of Bill Russell, not that far behind on D and significantly better on offense.

[Duncan21]

But where will Dirk end up when it's all said and done?


http://www.chinasink.com/stone-toilet/galala-toilet-1-(1)b.jpg

[gaydad]

Does anyone think he's the best PF ever after he retires?I've always considered him a center. Heck, he IS one! All that PF bull**** comes from playing alongside another elite center (the Admiral) and in the Shaq era (i.e. when all "5s" looled like "4s" in comparison, and the assignment of guarding Shaq was unloaded to role players and hackers with 6 fouls to give).

So how does TD stack up against the best centers of all time? IMO he's ahead of Olajuwon, because Duncan has played at the top longer.
I guess Chamberlain and Jabbar should still be rated ahead; Bill Russel I can't tell, Shaq IMO is slightly behind him but I admit being heavily biased on that one

[Psileas]

Wilt
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Oscar
West
Hakeem
Dr.J
Duncan
Baylor
K.Malone

I consider rings, team and individual competition, stats, prime value and significance to the game of basketball.
Wilt to Bird are all unquestionably greater. Some question Shaq, but I put him above Duncan, as well, because of his levels of dominance in 2000-02, which Duncan has never reached. Oscar and West don't have the titles, but their stats and historical significance still put them above Duncan, imo. Same thing with Erving. Hakeem's career accomplishments aren't more, but his prime value is higher (as it's proven in every "Hakeem vs Duncan" thread, where Hakeem takes at least 75% of the votes).

[Randy]

co-sign. It really isn't even close.

So... if Duncan wins another 'ship, does he jump Shaq? Or, is he already ahead of Shaq in an all-time rating?

Karl Malone isn't close? I guess being the league's second all time leading scorer doesn't mean much.

[Wuxia]

Wilt
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Oscar
West
Hakeem
Dr.J
Duncan
Baylor
K.Malone

I consider rings, team and individual competition, stats, prime value and significance to the game of basketball.
Wilt to Bird are all unquestionably greater. Some question Shaq, but I put him above Duncan, as well, because of his levels of dominance in 2000-02, which Duncan has never reached. Oscar and West don't have the titles, but their stats and historical significance still put them above Duncan, imo. Same thing with Erving. Hakeem's career accomplishments aren't more, but his prime value is higher (as it's proven in every "Hakeem vs Duncan" thread, where Hakeem takes at least 75% of the votes).

Looks good. I would rank West and Dr. J over Duncan, SHaq, Hakeem.

To me Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem is pretty much a toss up.

[Loki]

I'd have him between #8-11 if he wins a ring and Finals MVP this year. Guys ahead of him definitely (in no order):

Wilt
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bird
Shaq

Guys who are arguably ahead of him:

West
Moses
Hakeem

..with West and Hakeem having a better case than Moses imo. Russell's position changes for me periodically, so Duncan could be as high as #7, but more likely 8-10.

[CakeorDeath]

Karl Malone isn't close? I guess being the league's second all time leading scorer doesn't mean much.

My thoughts exactly. You can argue that Duncan is #1 PF of all time, but to say that it isn't close seriously underrates Malone's accomplishments.

[hotsizzle]

Shockingly, I agree with Loki. I already had him at 9-12 without the 4th ring.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Best Power Foward ever and if he wins his 4th, it's a rap.

[RedBlackAttack]

My thoughts exactly. You can argue that Duncan is #1 PF of all time, but to say that it isn't close seriously underrates Malone's accomplishments.
I guess I was assuming that he wins another ring this year. I'm sorry, but 4 rings puts him well past Malone. Karl was a great player, but it is really difficult to argue against 4 'ships.

I realize that Malone's best years were in the 'Jordan era', but he had his chances to get at least one ring and he is personally responsible, in some cases (missed free throws and general goating out at the end of games) for them not attaining it. He also had a shot with the Lakers, but I can't blame that one on Malone. That team didn't gell. However, he had his chances... couldn't get it done.

Duncan has gotten it done.

Therefore, Duncan > Malone.

[Kblaze8855]

Karl Malone is close if you judge players by everything but how effective they are as individual players. Malone in his prime simply was not as good as Duncan. Was a worse post scorer, worse rebounder, worse man to man and help defender(his strip move was about all he had on a high level), was arguably a better passer and shooter but Duncan is still a great passer and I dont want a 6'11'' guy taking 18 footers anyway. Duncan is more clutch and gets his own shots better with little need to be set up. Added to that the fact he may have 4 rings and 4 finals MVPS in a couple weeks and its not even that close accomplisment wise. Career totals just arent that important.

[CakeorDeath]

Some good points but I don't agree with all of them. Duncan is a better rebounder and defender than Malone but Karl was no slouch at either. Malone was a more proficient scorer, essentially averaging for a career what Duncan did in his highest scoring single season.

But it all means nothing if you can get the chip. And Karl disappeared in both finals trips.

[blaccsteel]

top ten all time...no doubt

if he wins again it actually hurts Shaq the most

I dont know what this means but anyway.....Tim Duncan is definitely one of the Top 3 PF's of all time. As far as rings are concerned....yes being a champion adds to your resume but its only one equation. So I still say Karl Malone is the best PF to ever play this game regardless if he has a ring or not. And I hate Karl Malone....but its the truth.

[poeticism707]

Here are Tim Duncan's career numbers compared to Shaq's; I just thought some posters might be interested in fact versus fiction (or legend).

Here are Tim Duncan and Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments

Lets take it to the scorecard as it stands right NOW:

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3 (maybe 4 this year)
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3 (maybe 4 this year)
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Now lets discuss the obvious. Shaq has been in the league 5 more years than Duncan, but only has one more title, both even in finals mvps, Duncan with one more season mvp at 2-1. Here is where it gets shocking: Shaq has been in the league over 14+ years, but only 7 first team all nba elections? That a mere 50%! Also, Shaq has never, not even once been voted first team all defense- with only 3, count it 3 total 2ND TEAM all defense selections! Wow! He's a bigger defensive liability than Steve Nash! Even with all this "dominant" scoring, career wise he leads Duncan by only four points in career average! It is obvious that all you who swear by Shaq's dominance have been utterly duped!

Anyone please look at these numbers and prove Shaq is better than Duncan! According to their career numbers and stats, Duncan is already ahead of Shaq, and its not even close! One more title and finals mvp will simply be icing on the cake.

[reppy]

I don't know. As good as Duncan is.. I don't think he's ever won back-2-back. Has he? How many of the greats have failed to win back-to-back championships (ignoring career altering injuries, like in Bill Walton's case)?

I'm not saying he isn't great. I'm just saying if when all is said and done he doesn't have a single back-to-back.. people can point at it and say, "See, he wasn't as great as Shaq, or Jordan, or.."

[poeticism707]

I don't know. As good as Duncan is.. I don't think he's ever won back-2-back. Has he? How many of the greats have failed to win back-to-back championships (ignoring career altering injuries, like in Bill Walton's case)?

I'm not saying he isn't great. I'm just saying if when all is said and done he doesn't have a single back-to-back.. people can point at it and say, "See, he wasn't as great as Shaq, or Jordan, or.."

So if Tim Duncan wins 6 titles, he's not as great as Jordan because won consecutively? By the way, when Jordan was working on his 4th title 13 years into his career in 96, Tim Duncan is now working on his fourth and fourth finals mvp in only 10 years. So by your logic, that makes TD undoubtedly greater than MJ, right? HERE HERE!!!

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't know. As good as Duncan is.. I don't think he's ever won back-2-back. Has he? How many of the greats have failed to win back-to-back championships (ignoring career altering injuries, like in Bill Walton's case)?

I'm not saying he isn't great. I'm just saying if when all is said and done he doesn't have a single back-to-back.. people can point at it and say, "See, he wasn't as great as Shaq, or Jordan, or.."
Never won back-to-back and one of his championships was in a strike-shortened season... if that dampens it at all (I don't think it does, personally).

[Brunch@Five]

Duncan can win 10 titles with his current level of play, I still won't rate him over Shaq, simply because never, at no point in his career, was even close to the player Shaq was in his prime. Shaq 3 years 00-02 are probably top 3 ever, certainly top 5 with Wilt, MJ, Bird and Kareem.
Accolades and titles are nice and neat, but if you compare players at this level individual play and dominance has to count most. That's why Shaq > Duncan.

[boozehound]

last

[SsKSpurs21]

Duncan can win 10 titles with his current level of play, I still won't rate him over Shaq, simply because never, at no point in his career, was even close to the player Shaq was in his prime. Shaq 3 years 00-02 are probably top 3 ever, certainly top 5 with Wilt, MJ, Bird and Kareem.
Accolades and titles are nice and neat, but if you compare players at this level individual play and dominance has to count most. That's why Shaq > Duncan.

a shorter dominant career 00-02 is far more important than a player who sustains his level of play for his entire career? if you knew that Shaq would put up the greatest top 3 most dominant performance and won your team 3 rings or Duncan who would win you 10 titles over a span of 15 years, you would chose shaq? the hell with the top performance, as a fan of the TEAM give me the 10 titles.

i would rather have duncan who keeps the team in contention every year than a player who wants to play on HIS terms.

[Psileas]

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3 (maybe 4 this year)
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3 (maybe 4 this year)
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Everyone agrees that MVP's are not as valid for determining a players's greatness as they should (I mean, Shaq has 1 and Nash has 2) and that Shaq could have up to 3-4, had he been judged more fairly (2000-2002 and 2005). All-NBA teams are not a legit indicator when comparing these 2 either, since Duncan has been considered a forward, which gives him twice more chances to get voted in, without ever having to face a player as dominant as prime Hakeem/Robinson. The closest to this level was 2004 Garnett, and if there was only 1 spot available, Garnett would be the one to get it. Even defensively, where Duncan is better, the margin is still unfair, since Duncan never compated with a defender of Hakeem's/Mutombo's level. As for the stats, I simply find Shaq's more impressive. And this includes post prime years.

[vert48]

Duncan has no shot at breaking into the top 5:
Kareem
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Wilt

But he will end up in the next 5:
Russel
Shaq
Duncan
Moses
Hakeem

By the way, the top 5 would also be the greatest starting 5 possible, with Wilt playing as a PF.

[Brunch@Five]

a shorter dominant career 00-02 is far more important than a player who sustains his level of play for his entire career? if you knew that Shaq would put up the greatest top 3 most dominant performance and won your team 3 rings or Duncan who would win you 10 titles over a span of 15 years, you would chose shaq? the hell with the top performance, as a fan of the TEAM give me the 10 titles.

i would rather have duncan who keeps the team in contention every year than a player who wants to play on HIS terms.

team success is faaaar too vague a factor to be THE deciding factor.
Shaq came to the expansion Magic and had to turn them around. Duncan came to the established Spurs with Robinson, a former MVP, returning from injury. Completely different environments. And still Shaq had his team contend by ~ 3 seasons into his career. By no means was Duncan a better player his first years, yet he won 2 titles and Shaq 0. From '95 to '07 Shaq's teams won as much Duncan's so far in his career.
Team success is definitely an indicator of greatness, but both Shaq and Duncan have shown they can win at any level and perform greatly (Shaq moreso than Duncan), everything else is more or less matter of circumstances.

If Shaq starts his career on the '99 Spurs, with the same management and coach, he definitely wins more titles than Duncan.

[FabCasablancas]

I think the key to the Spurs success isn't Duncan.. or at least it isn't JUST Duncan.. I think it has to do with Pop's and Duncan's chemistry... you couldn't have a player and coach with better chemistry.. both of these guys are so boring it hurts.. who else could put up with the boredom and monotony of that team? I'm not trying to dis anyone here.. it's just the reality.. and it shows how special their partnership is. I think coach and player chemistry is a HUGE part of players and team success.

But a big part of their success has to do with the luck of them having Duncan and Drob on the same team.. Duncan got so much respect early on playing with Drob.. not unlike Kobe and Wade with Shaq.

[feyki]

Bump after almost ten years .