One on One: Jordan vs. LeBron

[NASH = BEST]

So who wins?


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w5/NashIsBest/Jordan.jpg


I think LeBron is Bigger and maybe faster than Jordan but MJ's Defense would make it a decent game. I would guess that MJ wouldnt be able to stop LeBron as he goes to the hole though...

Final Score:


LeBron 21

Jordan 18

NO DOUBT LeBron wins this one...

So how do you guys see it, maybe someone can play it out on a simulator ala Rocky 6. I want to know who you fans (that know these 2 players better and that have some good "BasketBall IQ") think would win. It can be determined through stats or just straight belief...

Discuss!

[Richie2k6]

Jordan would beat Lebron because Lebron's jumpshot isn't too great. Jordan's is excellent. And Jordan is a better slasher than Lebron, and has better defense. He would win.

[sammdogg]

one on one i can see lebron winning cuz his size on jordan but no question i would rather have MJ anyday.

[LakerWarrior12]

The topic should be renamed like this.

One on One: Old Jordan vs Healthy Lebron


If Jordan was still like he was before, Jordan would win the game.

[Lebron23]

It is a close game so i would say Michael Jordan will win this one :cheers:

[NASH = BEST]

Jordan would beat Lebron because Lebron's jumpshot isn't too great. Jordan's is excellent. And Jordan is a better slasher than Lebron, and has better defense. He would win.

Lebron doesnt have to take that many jumpers to win IMO. Jordan Would get facialed if he stepped in front of LeBron.



one on one i can see lebron winning cuz his size on jordan but no question i would rather have MJ anyday.

I was thinking along the same lines, Mj on a "5 on 5" would be better but LeBron would defitnetly take the "1 on 1"!

[-primetime-]

you should be banned for this thread and if ANYONE picks Lebron I will be shocked...

Jordan's Defense >>>>> Lebron's defense

Lebron wouldn't even be able to score

and Jordan's offense > Lebron's O

Jordan is much more consistant than Lebron is...

jesus christ...Lebron has one great playoff series and now he can beat Jordan one on one!!!!!!

I thought this thread was a joke when I read the title

[Wuxia]

you should be banned for this thread and if ANYONE picks Lebron I will be shocked...

Jordan's Defense >>>>> Lebron's defense

Lebron wouldn't even be able to score

and Jordan's offense > Lebron's O

Jordan is much more consistant than Lebron is...

jesus christ...Lebron has one great playoff series and now he can beat Jordan one on one!!!!!!

I thought this thread was a joke when I read the title

Lebron does have about 50 pounds on Jordan.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Not a fair match up cuz Lebron is bigger, but I still think that MJ would win cuz he has better D and would be able to slow Lebron down. Lebron wouldn't be able to stop MJ at all.

[Loki]

Jordan would beat Lebron because Lebron's jumpshot isn't too great. Jordan's is excellent. And Jordan is a better slasher than Lebron, and has better defense. He would win.

Yup.

Not sure why anyone would think Lebron could win this. He's not that explosive off the dribble (as compared to Jordan), doesn't have nearly as good a shot as Jordan, and isn't nearly the defender Jordan is. Oh yeah, and his size doesn't really matter because he has little post game to speak of anyway (and post defense was perhaps the strongest part of Jordan's defensive game anyway).

What, you think Lebron is just going to be able to barrel into Jordan all day and make shots while absorbing contact he himself initiated? Jordan wasn't weak, you know. And Jordan's defensive footwork and ballhawking abilities would make it difficult for Lebron to set up a rhythm for his drive.


Didn't Kobe do a great job against Lebron the last time they met? Jordan was a significantly better defender than Kobe. Bron hasn't become 10x the player he was a few months ago overnight, you know.

[Richie2k6]

Lebron does have about 50 pounds on Jordan.
More like 30.

And guys, size doesn't matter.

[-primetime-]

Lebron does have about 50 pounds on Jordan.
there were alot of people that Jordan played against that had 50 pounds on him...

Jordan sucked when he put on weight and played for the Wizards...

also under that logic shaq would beat everyone in a one on one game

[abuC]

you should be banned for this thread and if ANYONE picks Lebron I will be shocked...

Jordan's Defense >>>>> Lebron's defense

Lebron wouldn't even be able to score

and Jordan's offense > Lebron's O

Jordan is much more consistant than Lebron is...

jesus christ...Lebron has one great playoff series and now he can beat Jordan one on one!!!!!!

I thought this thread was a joke when I read the title


Didnt Jordan struggle with Magic? LeBron is essentially the same size as Magic, but on a whole different level in terms of athleticism.

[Richie2k6]

Didnt Jordan struggle with Magic? LeBron is essentially the same size as Magic, but on a whole different level in terms of athleticism.
But Magic is one of the GOATs'. Lebron isn't.

[NASH = BEST]

also under that logic shaq would beat everyone in a one on one game

Funny thing is that I just cant see a "PRIME" Shaq losing to no one "1 on 1"

[-primetime-]

Didnt Jordan struggle with Magic? LeBron is essentially the same size as Magic, but on a whole different level in terms of athleticism.
jesus christ...I can't believe this

what was MJ like 5 years old when he played Magic?

and was it not Magic that had trouble with MJ?


this thread makes sense though...Dirk has one bad series and he goes from MVP to not even top 10, Lebron has one good series and he goes from inconsistant choker to being able to beat the GOAT in a game of one on one...

[abuC]

But Magic is one of the GOATs'. Lebron isn't.



What does that have to do with one on one?

[NASH = BEST]

Yup.

Not sure why anyone would think Lebron could win this. He's not that explosive off the dribble (as compared to Jordan), doesn't have nearly as good a shot as Jordan, and isn't nearly the defender Jordan is. Oh yeah, and his size doesn't really matter because he has little post game to speak of anyway (and post defense was perhaps the strongest part of Jordan's defensive game anyway).

What, you think Lebron is just going to be able to barrel into Jordan all day and make shots while absorbing contact he himself initiated? Jordan wasn't weak, you know. And Jordan's defensive footwork and ballhawking abilities would make it difficult for Lebron to set up a rhythm for his drive.


Didn't Kobe do a great job against Lebron the last time they met? Jordan was a significantly better defender than Kobe. Bron hasn't become 10x the player he was a few months ago overnight, you know.

Well, what do you think the Final score would be then?

First to 20...

[-primetime-]

Funny thing is that I just cant see a "PRIME" Shaq losing to no one "1 on 1"
to Jordan???? are you kidding me

all jordan would have to do is step out side and shoot the ball....no need to drive...

and Shaq can't dribble worth a SH-IT...Jordan would steal the ball 90% of the time...

Jordan 100
Shaq 8

[Loki]

Didnt Jordan struggle with Magic? LeBron is essentially the same size as Magic, but on a whole different level in terms of athleticism.

Jordan did not struggle with Magic, and what damage Magic did was in the post. Magic had an excellent post game. Lebron doesn't.

[abuC]

jesus christ...I can't believe this

what was MJ like 5 years old when he played Magic?

More like he was 28, but good estimate.


and was it not Magic that had trouble with MJ?

Since when did Magic guard SGs? Of course he would have trouble with Jordan, but you must have failed to see the point about LeBron being the same size as Magic, but more athletic.

[Richie2k6]

this thread makes sense though...Dirk has one bad series and he goes from MVP to not even top 10, Lebron has one good series and he goes from inconsistant choker to being able to beat the GOAT in a game of one on one...
That's basically the logic of these people, yes. And if you get injured, apparently you suck. (e.g. Wade, T-Mac, etc.)

What does that have to do with one on one?
Nothing. Jordan struggled with Magic because he is one of the GOATs'. Lebron isn't as good as Magic, so of course he would be easier to face 1 on 1. Common sense.

Funny thing is that I just cant see a "PRIME" Shaq losing to no one "1 on 1"
Duncan would give him a run for his money. :)

[abuC]

Jordan did not struggle with Magic, and what damage Magic did was in the post. Magic had an excellent post game. Lebron doesn't.


No, he clearly had trouble with Magic's size advantage. In a one on one setting, LeBron's post game doesnt need to be excellent.

[Loki]

Well, what do you think the Final score would be then?

First to 20...

Jordan's ball first, about 20-11, if that.

Lebron's ball first, around 20-14 tops. Jordan taking both scenarios. I just can't see Lebron scoring 12-15 straight buckets on Jordan while I can pretty easily see Jordan doing so on Lebron. At some point Lebron is going to be forced into a non-dunk/layup, and he'll miss, because his game isn't as polished. Jordan could not only get past Lebron at will, but also had a far more varied offensive game, to say nothing of his defensive advantage.

[-primetime-]

this is why Jordan would destroy Lebron

Lebron doesn't have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFDwd68-DA

[abuC]

Nothing. Jordan struggled with Magic because he is one of the GOATs'. Lebron isn't as good as Magic, so of course he would be easier to face 1 on 1. Common sense.



Im pretty sure you rarely play basketball, what does being one of the "goats" in a team sport, have to do with playing someone else ONE ON ONE? I know tons of guys who are horrible in actual games, but are unbeatable...one on one.

[Loki]

No, he clearly had trouble with Magic's size advantage. In a one on one setting, LeBron's post game doesnt need to be excellent.

No, he really didn't. In fact, he kept getting bogus calls against him in game 1 of the '91 Finals. People who think Jordan got calls should watch some of the doozies Magic got against Jordan in the post -- total non-fouls called as fouls, which led to the belief that Magic gave Jordan trouble in the post. Watch the game.

And again, what sort of post game does Lebron have? As soon as he puts that ball in front of him on a face up it's getting stolen by Jordan. So he had better have a post game -- too bad he's never demonstrated a great one like Magic had.

[Richie2k6]

Im pretty sure you rarely play basketball, what does being one of the "goats" in a team sport, have to do with playing someone else ONE ON ONE? I know tons of guys who are horrible in actual games, but are unbeatable...one on one.
Oh my God. You're not understanding what I'm saying.

[NASH = BEST]

this is why Jordan would destroy Lebron

Lebron doesn't have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFDwd68-DA

Nice Video...

Looks like Jordan is taking this by a Landslide,

Can some one please make a case for LeBron?

[Richie2k6]

Nice Video...

Looks like Jordan is taking this by a Landslide,

Can some one please make a case for LeBron?
Uhh.. he's stronger? :confusedshrug:

[abuC]

No, he really didn't. In fact, he kept getting bogus calls against him in game 1 of the '91 Finals. People who think Jordan got calls should watch some of the doozies Magic got against Jordan in the post -- total non-fouls called as fouls, which led to the belief that Magic gave Jordan trouble in the post. Watch the game.

I have watched the game, the problem is I dont have Jordan goggles, all I saw was a 6"9 guy with about 30lbs weight advantage, getting the better of a smaller player, but I guess Jordan defies the laws of phsyics, no?


And again, what sort of post game does Lebron have? As soon as he puts that ball in front of him on a face up it's getting stolen by Jordan. So he had better have a post game -- too bad he's never demonstrated a great one like Magic had.


To talk with such certainty over a game that will never happen is just ridiculous, how do you know? I dont think LeBron would really need Kevin McHale's post game in a one on one setting to beat a guy that is about 3 inches shorter, and 40-50lbs lighter. I see it as this, whoever gets the ball to start, would probably win that game, Jordan has the quickness edge, LeBron has the sheer power edge.

[NASH = BEST]

Uhh.. he's stronger? :confusedshrug:

Yeah,

LeBron would defitnetly kick MJ's a$$ in the Octagon.

First round Knock Out or Second Round Knock Out by the King?

[Lebron23]

Simulation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6WQLvRvtjs&mode=related&search=

Michael Jordan vs. Himself

This will be the outcome of the Michael Jordan vs. LBJ one on one Game

[Loki]

I have watched the game, the problem is I dont have Jordan goggles, all I saw was a 6"9 guy with about 30lbs weight advantage, getting the better of a smaller player, but I guess Jordan defies the laws of phsyics, no?


You certainly didn't see more than one legit foul, yet 4-5 were called, all in the post. Anyone can watch the game and see what I'm talking about. Magic got ridiculous calls against Jordan in the post in that series. Ridiculous.



To talk with such certainty over a game that will never happen is just ridiculous, how do you know? I dont think LeBron would really need Kevin McHale's post game in a one on one setting to beat a guy that is about 3 inches shorter, and 40-50lbs lighter. I see it as this, whoever gets the ball to start, would probably win that game, Jordan has the quickness edge, LeBron has the sheer power edge.

He doesn't need McHale's post game, but he needs SOME sort of post game. He has none. Lebron's gonna score 20 straight on Jordan if it's his ball first? Highly doubtful. His handle isn't good enough to keep Jordan from ripping it at least once, much less to keep Jordan from forcing him into one bad shot in 20 possessions. I mean, you can't be serious...

[Jailblazers7]

This is a retarded thread because Jordan obviously wins a one on one game at this point in his career. It is not fair to compare Lebron now we should at least wait for him to play into his prime and see what he is like then. Maybe it will actually be debatable then.

[White Chocolate]

This is a retarded thread because Jordan obviously wins a one on one game at this point in his career. It is not fair to compare Lebron now we should at least wait for him to play into his prime and see what he is like then. Maybe it will actually be debatable then.


Unless LeBron becomes a solid defender and develops that consistent jump shot, MJ wins easily.

[abuC]

He doesn't need McHale's post game, but he needs SOME sort of post game. He has none. Lebron's gonna score 20 straight on Jordan if it's his ball first? Highly doubtful. His handle isn't good enough to keep Jordan from ripping it at least once, much less to keep Jordan from forcing him into one bad shot in 20 possessions. I mean, you can't be serious...

Point out to me where I said LeBron would score 20 straight, I'd really like to see it. I said whoever gets the ball first, would most likely win, not score 20 straight. In a one on one setting, you dont need some polished post game when there's a big size difference, especially when both of them are perimeter players, nor do you need a great handle. When the difference is more than 40lbs, that is huge, there's no 3 sec lane violation, no 5 second back to the basket rule, no help defender...nothing....what need is there for a post game, when there's a distinct power and weight advantage.

[Loki]

Point out to me where I said LeBron would score 20 straight, I'd really like to see it. I said whoever gets the ball first, would most likely win, not score 20 straight. In a one on one setting, you dont need some polished post game when there's a big size difference, especially when both of them are perimeter players, nor do you need a great handle. When the difference is more than 40lbs, that is huge, there's no 3 sec lane violation, no 5 second back to the basket rule, no help defender...nothing....what need is there for a post game, when there's a distinct power and weight advantage.

Okay. So Lebron isn't going to get the ball ripped repeatedly by Jordan. He's going to win a one-on-one game by essentially running over Jordan despite having no discernible post game and Jordan not being nearly as weak as the weight difference would imply (he was significantly stronger than a guy like Tayshaun, for instance). Sorry, but I don't buy it.

[hotsizzle]

Lebron isn't the best one on one player in the game.

A more interesting matchup would be Jordan v Kobe. Jordan wins still but Kobe matches up better against MJ than Bron would.

One legendary playoff performance and this happens.:oldlol: Funny part is 2 games ago, people were ripping his ass apart, how fast people are influenced.

[LakerWarrior12]

Lebron isn't the best one on one player in the game.

A more interesting matchup would be Jordan v Kobe. Jordan wins still but Kobe matches up better against MJ than Bron would.

One legendary playoff performance and this happens.:oldlol: Funny part is 2 games ago, people were ripping his ass apart, how fast people are influenced.


I don't think Lebron's playoff performance is legendary at all.

IMO

[Cannonball]

More like 30.

And guys, size doesn't matter.

Then why was you girl likening it so much when I filled her up? ?

[hotsizzle]

I don't think Lebron's playoff performance is legendary at all.

IMO

No, its legendary and he deserves mad props and praise for it but not this far.

[Cannonball]

I don't think Lebron's playoff performance is legendary at all.

IMO


Barkelys, Ernies, The Jet, Rick Camela >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your opion

[-primetime-]

No, its legendary and he deserves mad props and praise for it but not this far.
i don't know sizzle...

the word "legendary" is pretty strong...Jordan had plenty of huge playoff games.

do you really think that people will remember that game say ....5 years from now?

I am not saying that they won't but I know there are games that Jordan had that i will NEVER forget

[NASH = BEST]

I don't think Lebron's playoff performance is legendary at all.

IMO

GTF-Out of here!

The DUde went complete ape balls last night.

[abuC]

Okay. So Lebron isn't going to get the ball ripped repeatedly by Jordan. He's going to win a one-on-one game by essentially running over Jordan despite having no discernible post game and Jordan not being nearly as weak as the weight difference would imply (he was significantly stronger than a guy like Tayshaun, for instance). Sorry, but I don't buy it.



You're acting like LeBron is a walking turnover with a terrible handle on par with the likes of Damon Jones. There you have it, you get the idea, running over was the right word, last time I played one on one my opponent never called me for a charge. That big of a weight difference can make up for lack of skill, especially since LeBron isnt exactly a bumbling oaf with no skill in the first place, he's roughly the size of a PF, with guard skills. Of course you dont buy it, you tried to sell me on Jordan running a 4.3 40yd once, so I know what Im debating with.

[hotsizzle]

i don't know sizzle...

the word "legendary" is pretty strong...Jordan had plenty of huge playoff games.

do you really think that people will remember that game say ....5 years from now?

I am not saying that they won't but I know there are games that Jordan had that i will NEVER forget

And thats why MJ is the GOAT and inarguably the greatest playoff performer ever. MJ put up these legendary games to the point where people started to expect them...and once he retired, never been seen done again so consistently.

Reason I say it was legendary because of the context it came in. The final 29 of your team's 30 points (25 straight). Dunks, threes, fall away jumpers..he had it going on the road, single handedly won the ECF for them if they can close out.


Lebron did put something special up last night but people are jumping around everywhere claiming he will be the GOAT when its all said and done, jumping around saying it was better than Jordan's 63 at the garden game, and now saying Lebron can beat Jordan one on one? Please.

What if he follows up with two dismal performances the next two games. These threads are gonna look stupid.

[NASH = BEST]

Of course you dont buy it, you tried to sell me on Jordan running a 4.3 40yd once, so I know what Im debating with.

:oldlol:



Yeah, Loki is the Kind of Jordan fan that would probably try to also sell you that Jordan wouldve beaten Sampras at Wimbledon.

[-primetime-]

GTF-Out of here!

The DUde went complete ape balls last night.
he had a VERY good game but lets not forget that the Cavs BARELY won the game...

Jordan scored 69 against the Cavs without any over-time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPoPzC9DpI

he also scored 54 against them that same year and averaged 44 ppg against the Cavs

[-primetime-]

You're acting like LeBron is a walking turnover with a terrible handle on par with the likes of Damon Jones. There you have it, you get the idea, running over was the right word, last time I played one on one my opponent never called me for a charge. That big of a weight difference can make up for lack of skill, especially since LeBron isnt exactly a bumbling oaf with no skill in the first place, he's roughly the size of a PF, with guard skills. Of course you dont buy it, you tried to sell me on Jordan running a 4.3 40yd once, so I know what Im debating with.
I honestly think that him weighing more is a disadvantage to Lebron...

it might even be the reason Lebron will never be as good as MJ...MJ ws the PERFECT size for the NBA...and that size he was lightning fast and if he weighed an extra 50 pounds he would not have been able to do the things he could do...

MJ put on some weight when he played for the Wizards and you could tell that it did not help out his game any...

[NASH = BEST]

he had a VERY good game but lets not forget that the Cavs BARELY won the game...

Jordan scored 69 against the Cavs without any over-time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPoPzC9DpI

he also scored 54 against them that same year and averaged 44 ppg against the Cavs

Yeah, but Jordans 69 wasnt in the Playoffs was it?

If you want to bring regular season games into this discussion then why not mention/compare it to Kobe's 81 or Wilts 100?

[-primetime-]

Yeah, but Jordans 69 wasnt in the Playoffs was it?

If you want to bring regular season games into this discussion then why not mention/compare it to Kobe's 81 or Wilts 100?
because we are talking about Jordan vs. Lebron right?

what does that have to do with Kobe or Wilt?

[-primetime-]

if you want to talk playoff games only then Jordan had PLENTY of huge ones...

Highest career scoring average playoffs—33.45



take your pick...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jordan+playoffs

[abuC]

I honestly think that him weighing more is a disadvantage to Lebron...


Doubtful, he's essentially the same size as some PFs, but more coordinated, he's somewhat of Shaq on the perimeter in the sense that he's an anomaly in terms of athleticism and coordination in a massive frame.


it might even be the reason Lebron will never be as good as MJ...MJ ws the PERFECT size for the NBA...and that size he was lightning fast and if he weighed an extra 50 pounds he would not have been able to do the things he could do...

There is no perfect size for an NBA player, there are 5 positions with their own basic idea of what the right height/weight are. His weight wouldnt be the reason why, guys bounce off him like a pinball when he's in the lane. It's a fair trade, sacrifice quickness for power, what you lose can be made up for in other ways.




MJ put on some weight when he played for the Wizards and you could tell that it did not help out his game any...



MJ was old, and LeBron is taller, this is not a 1:1 comparison.

[abuC]

:oldlol:



Yeah, Loki is the Kind of Jordan fan that would probably try to also sell you that Jordan wouldve beaten Sampras at Wimbledon.



They say Jordan's eyes are the same exact dimension as the official spalding basketball only scaled down to fit in his sockets. And you're incorrect, Jordan did not beat Sampras, he beat Federer with his off hand while smoking a cigar.

[thenextgreatbigman]

this is why Jordan would destroy Lebron

Lebron doesn't have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFDwd68-DA
that's great because most of the plays in that video were on help defense with jordan being the 2nd line of defense. And that's something that doesn't come in to play in 1 on 1 games.


More like 30.

And guys, size doesn't matter.
looks like you didn't play much basketball in your life. In this game size is everything. I'm 6'5 210 and at 17yrs old i beat guys who play college ball (gaurds) just because of my size.


there were alot of people that Jordan played against that had 50 pounds on him...

Jordan sucked when he put on weight and played for the Wizards...

also under that logic shaq would beat everyone in a one on one game
We're talking about muscle and strenght, not fat. Jordan wasn't the same with the wizards because he was old and not even close to as athletic as he used to be.


to Jordan???? are you kidding me

all jordan would have to do is step out side and shoot the ball....no need to drive...

and Shaq can't dribble worth a SH-IT...Jordan would steal the ball 90% of the time...

Jordan 100
Shaq 8
Again shaq would destroy Jordan. If the game was up to 100 like you said it would end up being 100 to 60 in shaqs favor. Jordan might get his shot off but he's not making everything. Shaq takes the ball, keeps his body between MJ and the ball and takes it to the post for a dunk on every play. Shaq would end up shooting around 90%.



I think Lebron would have a shot at winning the game just because of the size advantage. If you want to win 1 on 1 you take it to the rack and lebron wouldn't have that much of a problem doing it on someone 40lbs lighter than him.

[-primetime-]

Doubtful, he's essentially the same size as some PFs, but more coordinated, he's somewhat of Shaq on the perimeter in the sense that he's an anomaly in terms of athleticism and coordination in a massive frame.
he is also inconsistant

There is no perfect size for an NBA player, there are 5 positions with their own basic idea of what the right height/weight are. His weight wouldnt be the reason why, guys bounce off him like a pinball when he's in the lane. It's a fair trade, sacrifice quickness for power, what you lose can be made up for in other ways.
ok, he was the perfect size to be the GOAT...

MJ was old, and LeBron is taller, this is not a 1:1 comparison.
ok...true enough

[-primetime-]

Again shaq would destroy Jordan. If the game was up to 100 like you said it would end up being 100 to 60 in shaqs favor. Jordan might get his shot off but he's not making everything. Shaq takes the ball, keeps his body between MJ and the ball and takes it to the post for a dunk on every play. Shaq would end up shooting around 90%.
I am sorry but that is just plain ridiculous...Shaq isn't even capable of dribbling the ball down the court...but more importantly Shaq is not capable of MAKING A SHOT....he would be forced to get in the paint everytime and if there is any kind of ref at all in this game then Jordan could just rack up charging fouls and force Shaq to shoot for the outside???

you think that Shaq has the speed to make a move to the basket on Jordan????? HELL NO...Jordan would steal the ball out of Shaq's clumby hands on a regular basis....

and on the other side of the court you have Jordan who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, Shaq would have no chance at all...Shaq would be forced to stay in the paint and if he went out to defend Jordan then he would get burned by Jordan's speed and end up watching a dunk....

this is a no brainer really...Shaq's entire game is based on him standing in the paint and having a great gaurd pass the ball to him...you are asking him to actually move around and play some basketball against Jordan and that is something that Shaq is simpley not capable of...he would get torched and the score would be ridiculously huge in favor of Jordan...

[skan72]

he is also inconsistant

ok, he was the perfect size to be the GOAT...

ok...true enough

Inconsisten? He has averaged 28, 7, and 8 over all his playoff games so far...yeah inconsistent was the word that came to mind for me. And his career season average has been 26, 6, and 6...again inconsistent is most likely the word I would use. He is one man carrying a team, essentially, he is going to be bad occassionally, but more often than not he comes up with wins for his team.

[White Chocolate]

I am sorry but that is just plain ridiculous...Shaq isn't even capable of dribbling the ball down the court...but more importantly Shaq is not capable of MAKING A SHOT....he would be forced to get in the paint everytime and if there is any kind of ref at all in this game then Jordan could just rack up charging fouls and force Shaq to shoot for the outside???

you think that Shaq has the speed to make a move to the basket on Jordan????? HELL NO...Jordan would steal the ball out of Shaq's clumby hands on a regular basis....

and on the other side of the court you have Jordan who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, Shaq would have no chance at all...Shaq would be forced to stay in the paint and if he went out to defend Jordan then he would get burned by Jordan's speed and end up watching a dunk....

this is a no brainer really...Shaq's entire game is based on him standing in the paint and having a great gaurd pass the ball to him...you are asking him to actually move around and play some basketball against Jordan and that is something that Shaq is simpley not capable of...he would get torched and the score would be ridiculously huge in fovor of Jordan...


Couldn't have said it better. Shaq is not a skilled player, he is a dominant player. He relies on power and bullying his way to the basket. One on one, MJ would embarrass him.

[abuC]

I am sorry but that is just plain ridiculous...Shaq isn't even capable of dribbling the ball down the court...but more importantly Shaq is not capable of MAKING A SHOT....he would be forced to get in the paint everytime and if there is any kind of ref at all in this game then Jordan could just rack up charging fouls and force Shaq to shoot for the outside???

you think that Shaq has the speed to make a move to the basket on Jordan????? HELL NO...Jordan would steal the ball out of Shaq's clumby hands on a regular basis....

and on the other side of the court you have Jordan who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, Shaq would have no chance at all...Shaq would be forced to stay in the paint and if he went out to defend Jordan then he would get burned by Jordan's speed and end up watching a dunk....

this is a no brainer really...Shaq's entire game is based on him standing in the paint and having a great gaurd pass the ball to him...you are asking him to actually move around and play some basketball against Jordan and that is something that Shaq is simpley not capable of...he would get torched and the score would be ridiculously huge in favor of Jordan...



LMAO, there would be a ref in a one on one game, are you serious? Who cares if he's capable of making a jumpshot, the point is that MJ would not be able to stop Shaq from backing him down to the point Jordan is standing under the hoop. This is nearly a 180lbs weight difference, it's the equivalent of two Jordan's leaning on one Jordan, according to some of you just one Jordan is all that is needed to tear the fabric of space and time.

Why would Shaq need a dribble, he outweighs Jordan by nearly 2x, that is an absurd amount of weight difference. There is no amount of leverage MJ can gain to stop that much weight from pushing him around, he would need to snare Shaq's foot in a bear trap and tie the other end to a Ford F-150 to pull Shaq out of the paint.

Im literally cracking up here, I cannot believe how ridiculous this post is. :roll: Im almost certain you dont play basketball.

[Richie2k6]

Why would Shaq need a dribble, he outweighs Jordan by nearly 2x, that is an absurd amount of weight difference. There is no amount of leverage MJ can gain to stop that much weight from pushing him around, he would need snare Shaq's foot in a bear trap and tie the other end to a Ford F-150 to pull Shaq out of the paint.

:roll: And I was cracking up at that.

[Richie2k6]

Shaq is not a skilled player, he is a dominant player.
You crackhead. You don't know anything.

[beau_boy04]

MJ wins 21 to 15 Lebron

Lebron's 15 points will be all dunks maybe 1 or 2 jumpshot. MJ's 21 will be based on a variety of moves, fadeaways jumper, dunks, you name it.

Jordan will make Lebron look like a high school player again.

Jordan's defense will limit Lebron's effectiveness.

Jordan's a better scorer, 10x more efficient, and one of the most fundamentally sound player ever.

Lebron might win a game by extreme luck which will irritate Jordan's nerves and then MJ will go ahead and win the next 10 games.

Enough said.

[JoHnShOeZ1492]

I Am A huge Lebron Fan But Even i Would Have To Go With The 6 Time Champion

[-primetime-]

LMAO, there would be a ref in a one on one game, are you serious? Who cares if he's capable of making a jumpshot, the point is that MJ would not be able to stop Shaq from backing him down to the point Jordan is standing under the hoop. This is nearly a 180lbs weight difference, it's the equivalent of two Jordan's leaning on one Jordan, according to some of you just one Jordan is all that is needed to tear the fabric of space and time.
ok if there is no ref and no rules then you are right...Shaq could just punch Jordan in the face and knock him out every play...

Why would Shaq need a dribble, he outweighs Jordan by nearly 2x, that is an absurd amount of weight difference. There is no amount of leverage MJ can gain to stop that much weight from pushing him around, he would need to snare Shaq's foot in a bear trap and tie the other end to a Ford F-150 to pull Shaq out of the paint.
why would shaq need to dribble?...this is basketball isn't it?

the last time I checked you had to dribble the ball down the court if you want to get in shooting range...

oh wait...I forgot....there are no refs so shaq could just run holding the ball...my bad.

Im literally cracking up here, I cannot believe how ridiculous this post is. :roll: Im almost certain you dont play basketball.
to think that Shaq has the ball skills to beat Jordan in a game of one on one is seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever heard here...the fact that you think it is funny to think that MJ would win is really sad...

[-primetime-]

You crackhead. You don't know anything.
you know what he ment Richie...

yes Shaq has skills there are is question but he is talking about ball control skills...and Shaq has zero of that...

[thenextgreatbigman]

I am sorry but that is just plain ridiculous...Shaq isn't even capable of dribbling the ball down the court...but more importantly Shaq is not capable of MAKING A SHOT....he would be forced to get in the paint everytime and if there is any kind of ref at all in this game then Jordan could just rack up charging fouls and force Shaq to shoot for the outside???

you think that Shaq has the speed to make a move to the basket on Jordan????? HELL NO...Jordan would steal the ball out of Shaq's clumby hands on a regular basis....

and on the other side of the court you have Jordan who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, Shaq would have no chance at all...Shaq would be forced to stay in the paint and if he went out to defend Jordan then he would get burned by Jordan's speed and end up watching a dunk....

this is a no brainer really...Shaq's entire game is based on him standing in the paint and having a great gaurd pass the ball to him...you are asking him to actually move around and play some basketball against Jordan and that is something that Shaq is simpley not capable of...he would get torched and the score would be ridiculously huge in favor of Jordan...
That post explains it all, you don't play basketball.
Do yuo know how wide shaq is? Getting around him is not an easy thing to do, on defense for the steal, or getting by on offense.
1 on 1 you don't need handles, Shaq gets the ball posts up and gets jordan all the way to the post. There are no charges when you're playing 1 on 1 and shaq mull through players, he goes over them. It's feeling your defense with your back and taking what the defense gives you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bq63G0DUYh8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_xU7FZY3KcM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8CBvWWbAQ-o

[White Chocolate]

You crackhead. You don't know anything.


Obviously, you don't know anything. Since when are dunks, baby hook shots, 45% free throw percentage, and simply mauling guys to get to the hoop considered skilled? Any 350 pounder can use his weight and barrel people over. How many guys at 7'+ can do just about anything from defense to 3 pointers other than Dirk Nowitzki?

[XxNeXuSxX]

This thread lacks logic after Loki.

[-primetime-]

That post explains it all, you don't play basketball.
yes I have and I know that size is huge whenit comes to one on one, I have played hundreds of one on one games and I have been beaten by players shorter than myself...I also have a large friend that I cuold beat every time...but we are comparing I guy who is not capable of dribbling the ball of shooting to the GOAT....it is ridiculous.

Do yuo know how wide shaq is? Getting around him is not an easy thing to do, on defense for the steal, or getting by on offense.
WTF...???

you seriously don't think Jordan could get past shaq?...when has shaq EVER had to guard someone on the outside???

he would get burned...every time...EVERY....SINGLE.....TIME

and if he wants to just sit in the paint then he is going to have fun watching Jordan rain shoots over his head...

1 on 1 you don't need handles, Shaq gets the ball posts up and gets jordan all the way to the post. There are no charges when you're playing 1 on 1 and shaq mull through players, he goes over them. It's feeling your defense with your back and taking what the defense gives you.


you don't need handles???....seriously???

ok...it is you that has not played very much basketball in your life...not me

[Richie2k6]

Obviously, you don't know anything. Since when are dunks, baby hook shots, 45% free throw percentage, and simply mauling guys to get to the hoop considered skilled? Any 350 pounder can use his weight and barrel people over. How many guys at 7'+ can do just about anything from defense to 3 pointers other than Dirk Nowitzki?
Dirk is a bad defender. Shaq has no skills? Explain to me why his arsenal is so big then?

- Baby hookshot, almost unblockable
- Turn arnound baseline drive, usually into a dunk
- A variety of drop-step layups
- Drop step dunks
- Post up and turn around
- Pump fake turn arounds, pivots, etc.
- A massive variety of back-to-the-basket maneuvers.

And that was only his offense. Saying Shaq has no skills and is only pure muscle is one of the stupidest things I've heard anyone say about one of the greatest centers ever. Just because he has a reputation of dunking, that doesn't mean that's all he can do. He has great fundamentals, quickness, and footwork. Not to mention his great low-post passing ability. Shaq has no skills? How can you get into the NBA, win 4 rings, Finals MVP's, all-star MVPs, all-nba selections, and more, just off being a power dunker? You oubviously don't watch tape of prime Shaq play. He isn't Dwight Howard you know. He has more in his repetoire than just dunking. Go start a topic about Shaq having no skill and pure muscle and see how many people call you a stupid moron.

[-primetime-]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bq63G0DUYh8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_xU7FZY3KcM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8CBvWWbAQ-o
these videos prove my point...the very fact that they are on youtube shows how rare it is that he ever dribbles the ball...did you hear the annoucers?? they were laughing about it

[-primetime-]

A compilation of videos of Jordan posterizing Shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g40udNBfM

[White Chocolate]

[QUOTE]- Baby hookshot, almost unblockable


Once again, the hook shot. Any tall guy taking a hook shot is almost unblockable.




- Turn arnound baseline drive, usually into a dunk



Back to the dunk.




- A variety of drop-step layups
- Drop step dunks
- Post up and turn around
- Pump fake turn arounds, pivots, etc.
- A massive variety of back-to-the-basket maneuvers.


Once again, we're back to low post moves, more specifically posting up, turn arounds, hook shots, and dunks, which we already covered.


No doubt, Shaq was very agile and athletic in his prime, but his game always consisted of dunks and baby hooks, which start off with post up moves. Any 7 footer can block shots, dunk, and get rebounds. Power has always been Shaq's most valuable asset. Without it, where would he be?

[-primetime-]

Dirk is a bad defender. Shaq has no skills? Explain to me why his arsenal is so big then?

- Baby hookshot, almost unblockable
- Turn arnound baseline drive, usually into a dunk
- A variety of drop-step layups
- Drop step dunks
- Post up and turn around
- Pump fake turn arounds, pivots, etc.
- A massive variety of back-to-the-basket maneuvers.

And that was only his offense. Saying Shaq has no skills and is only pure muscle is one of the stupidest things I've heard anyone say about one of the greatest centers ever. Just because he has a reputation of dunking, that doesn't mean that's all he can do. He has great fundamentals, quickness, and footwork. Not to mention his great low-post passing ability. Shaq has no skills? How can you get into the NBA, win 4 rings, Finals MVP's, all-star MVPs, all-nba selections, and more, just off being a power dunker? You oubviously don't watch tape of prime Shaq play. He isn't Dwight Howard you know. He has more in his repetoire than just dunking. Go start a topic about Shaq having no skill and pure muscle and see how many people call you a stupid moron.
yes over the years Shaq has learned some moves that use his freakish size as an advatage...he does have skills...he just can't shoot or dribble...all of his skills are him under the basket...

question Rich...

do you think that shaq would beat Jordan in a game of one on one?...assuming that it is being reffed?

[-primetime-]

Shaq has no skills? How can you get into the NBA, win 4 rings, Finals MVP's, all-star MVPs, all-nba selections, and more.
well being the biggest human on the planet doesn't hurt...

[Richie2k6]

do you think that shaq would beat Jordan in a game of one on one?...assuming that it is being reffed?
Reffed? Jordan I suppose.

Once again, we're back to low post moves, more specifically posting up, turn arounds, hook shots, and dunks, which we already covered.


No doubt, Shaq was very agile and athletic in his prime, but his game always consisted of dunks and baby hooks, which start off with post up moves. Any 7 footer can block shots, dunk, and get rebounds. Power has always been Shaq's most valuable asset. Without it, where would he be?
It's not the fact that most of his moves end off with dunks, it's the fact that he has the skills to do the moves to create dunks in the first place. And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, but less athletic and slower. Who knows?

[beau_boy04]

A compilation of videos of Jordan posterizing Shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g40udNBfM

:applause:

[Richie2k6]

well being the biggest human on the planet doesn't hurt...
If there were a big, fat guy in high school that could do nothing but dunk, and I mean NOTHING but dunk, not even dribble well, pass well, or rebound well, I wouldn't draft him. I wouldn't draft someone who can only dunk. He'd have to have court vision, brains, and skills, all of which Shaquille O'Neal has a lot of.

[White Chocolate]

And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, but less athletic and slower. Who knows?


Are you kidding me? Since when does Shaq hit 15 foot jump shots?

[-primetime-]

If there were a big, fat guy in high school that could do nothing but dunk, and I mean NOTHING but dunk, not even dribble well, pass well, or rebound well, I wouldn't draft him. I wouldn't draft someone who can only dunk. He'd have to have court vision, brains, and skills, all of which Shaquille O'Neal has a lot of.
I agree but lets be honest here Rich...Shaq is who he is because of his freakish size

[-primetime-]

Reffed? Jordan I suppose.

ok...I think me and you are pretty much on the same page here

[-primetime-]

And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, but less athletic and slower. Who knows?
those words are pretty key

[Richie2k6]

Are you kidding me? Since when does Shaq hit 15 foot jump shots?
Notice how I said "Who knows." If Shaq didn't have his size, he'd be shooting jumpers, because he'd have no choice but to practice them because he wouldn't be able to overpower everyone. Either that or he'd be a fundamental giant, like Duncan.

I agree but lets be honest here Rich...Shaq is who he is because of his freakish size
And he'd be a totally different player if he had a generic 6"10, 250lbs body.

[thenextgreatbigman]

[QUOTE=Richie2k6]
No doubt, Shaq was very agile and athletic in his prime, but his game always consisted of dunks and baby hooks, which start off with post up moves. Any 7 footer can block shots, dunk, and get rebounds. Power has always been Shaq's most valuable asset. Without it, where would he be?
where would jordan be if he didn't have the 40+ vert, or the overall athletic ability. Shaq wasn't just born big, he had to work for that body and work to have enough stamina to keep up with smaller guys gong up and down the court.

Why wasn't shawn bradley dominating the nba? What about olowokandi?


And how is Jordan going to stop shaq from getting to the paint again?

[-primetime-]

Shaq wasn't just born big, he had to work for that body and work to have enough stamina to keep up with smaller guys gong up and down the court.

I am pretty sure shaq's DNA has something to do with how big he is...


pretty....sure

[beau_boy04]

why are we talking about Shaq when the topic is clearly Jordan vs Lebron?

[Richie2k6]

I am pretty sure shaq's DNA has something to do with how big he is...


pretty....sure
He was just born tall, not heavy. The weight and muscle was something he worked on himself.


why are we talking about Shaq when the topic is clearly Jordan vs Lebron?
Because Shaq >>> The World.

[abuC]

ok if there is no ref and no rules then you are right...Shaq could just punch Jordan in the face and knock him out every play...

So in your world of one on one, the game only takes place in a gym with a ref, or in prison where shanking or punching your opponent in the face is perfectly legal.


why would shaq need to dribble?...this is basketball isn't it?

Yes, one on one basketball, he doesnt need to be dribbling like Hot Sauce or Iverson to get points, a simple turn and back down move would be fairly sufficient. I have a pretty good test, go find one so-so skilled 6"1 200lbs 10th grader who can only make close shots, and find the most talented 5th grader you can, and see who wins.


the last time I checked you had to dribble the ball down the court if you want to get in shooting range...

oh wait...I forgot....there are no refs so shaq could just run holding the ball...my bad.

to think that Shaq has the ball skills to beat Jordan in a game of one on one is seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever heard here...the fact that you think it is funny to think that MJ would win is really sad...


Ok, it's even more obvious now that you actually dont play basketball.

[thenextgreatbigman]

Because Shaq >>> The World.
1 on 1 yes.

[abuC]

ok if there is no ref and no rules then you are right...Shaq could just punch Jordan in the face and knock him out every play...

So in your world of one on one, the game only takes place in a gym with a ref, or in prison where shanking or punching your opponent in the face is perfectly legal.


why would shaq need to dribble?...this is basketball isn't it?

Yes, one on one basketball, he doesnt need to be dribbling like Hot Sauce or Iverson to get points, a simple turn and back down move would be fairly sufficient. I have a pretty good test, go find one so-so skilled 6"1 210lbs 10th grader who can only make close shots, and find the most talented 5"6 120lbs 6th grader you can, and see who wins.


the last time I checked you had to dribble the ball down the court if you want to get in shooting range...

oh wait...I forgot....there are no refs so shaq could just run holding the ball...my bad.

to think that Shaq has the ball skills to beat Jordan in a game of one on one is seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever heard here...the fact that you think it is funny to think that MJ would win is really sad...


Ok, it's even more obvious now that you actually dont play basketball.

[Loki]

you tried to sell me on Jordan running a 4.3 40yd once, so I know what Im debating with.

I didn't try to "sell" you anything. I posted a Sports Illustrated article which said that he ran a 4.3/40 at UNC. Just like people say that Lebron runs at 4.4 or 4.3/40. Personally I take both with a grain of salt due to the inaccuracy of the measurements, but if you accept one, you have to accept both.

And I never acted like Bron is an "oaf," but if you don't think that Jordan could rip him once or twice, well...

[thenextgreatbigman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctj3yyfCErI

[-primetime-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctj3yyfCErI
so he couldn't even dribble when he was young?

[SsKSpurs21]

Jordans trash talking alone would cause lebron to lose the game. he would be so far in lebrons mind, lebron wouldnt know what the hell is going on.

i say give lebron 5 years to showcase how well he develops in his prime...then you can make solid comparisions once lebron has shown more to strengthen his case better.

[MaxFly]

LMAO, there would be a ref in a one on one game, are you serious? Who cares if he's capable of making a jumpshot, the point is that MJ would not be able to stop Shaq from backing him down to the point Jordan is standing under the hoop. This is nearly a 180lbs weight difference, it's the equivalent of two Jordan's leaning on one Jordan, according to some of you just one Jordan is all that is needed to tear the fabric of space and time.

Why would Shaq need a dribble, he outweighs Jordan by nearly 2x, that is an absurd amount of weight difference. There is no amount of leverage MJ can gain to stop that much weight from pushing him around, he would need to snare Shaq's foot in a bear trap and tie the other end to a Ford F-150 to pull Shaq out of the paint.

Im literally cracking up here, I cannot believe how ridiculous this post is. :roll: Im almost certain you dont play basketball.

:oldlol: :oldlol: @ this entire post.

[-primetime-]

lmao at anyone who thinks shaq could handle jordan one on one...

seriously....delete thread

[KINGofTHEcourt]

Jordan wins. You're underrating Jordan's defense, he was a lock down defender in his prime. 1 on 1 is also about jumpshooting a lot. Lebron may have a decent jumper, but Jordan had the best fadeaway in the game, and probably all-time. Jordan also has the passion to win that Lebron doesn't.

Final Score

Jordan - 21

Lebron - 13

[sixerfan82]

this is one of those "guy A did great recently so he's better than jordan" topics..

jordan would rip lebron a new *******, fact is, as good as lebron was the other night, and im not taking ANYTHING away from the kid, but even no names get lucky once in a while. lebron needs to repeat what he did more and more to even touch what jordan did


now lebron vs jordan 1 on 1? if we're talking prime vs prime, id take jordan anyday, only becauses mike reached deep down to rip yoru heart out. if he lost he took it as a personal insult against him, and he doesn't like being insulted

[AznBBoyX]

Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...

[picc84]

Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...

Didnt he make him cry too?

[thenextgreatbigman]

didn't shaq abuse sheed? Wasn't sheed like 230 in college, and wasn't jordan in his prime?
Isn't shaq 10 times better than sheed even now?

[Loki]

Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...

Yup. Some dude on here posted the story, and Jordan made Sheed literally cry. :oldlol: I've been trying to find out who told that story the first time, because I'd love to hear it again. A 39 year old Jordan also destroyed Kwame Brown in a one-on-one, though I realize Brown is no Shaq; still, it's evidence that big does not always trump small.

[EricForman]

That post explains it all, you don't play basketball.
Do yuo know how wide shaq is? Getting around him is not an easy thing to do,

Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.

Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.

The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.

Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"

[EricForman]

Nash = Best. Please don't turn into Howard4Nowitzki. Meaning don't make me dislike Nash and hope he loses just because you are annoying. Because that's what Howard4Nowitzki did to me. I respect Dirk, but boy I couldn't wait for hte Mavs to lose because their fans on ISH put themselves on a high horse, especially after last playoffs.

Your thread about Lebron vs jordan is ok, but I see you making some clown ass joke about Jordan's "69 point game" wasn't in the playoffs... as if somehow, Jordan is lacking in the "playoff heroics" department.

Um, Jordan has more big games in the playoffs than Nash has in his entire career. Including preseason, exhibitions, all star games, charity games, pickup games, whatever.

[thenextgreatbigman]

Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.

Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.

The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.

Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"
Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.

There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere. He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.

[NASH = BEST]

Nash = Best. Please don't turn into Howard4Nowitzki. Meaning don't make me dislike Nash and hope he loses just because you are annoying. Because that's what Howard4Nowitzki did to me. I respect Dirk, but boy I couldn't wait for hte Mavs to lose because their fans on ISH put themselves on a high horse, especially after last playoffs.

Your thread about Lebron vs jordan is ok, but I see you making some clown ass joke about Jordan's "69 point game" wasn't in the playoffs... as if somehow, Jordan is lacking in the "playoff heroics" department.

Um, Jordan has more big games in the playoffs than Nash has in his entire career. Including preseason, exhibitions, all star games, charity games, pickup games, whatever.

What the phuck do any of my comments on Jordan have to do with Nash?

I happen to think that LeBron's 48 is more impressive than Jordan's 69 because LeBron did in the Playoffs.

But of course Jordan's 63 in the Playoffs > than LeBron's 48 even though it was in a loss.

Dude please dont turn this into your own agenda to "Bash on Nash",

Ive made a pledge to myself not to bring up Nash until next season,

But good try on trying to turn this into a "Nash Hate" thread.

[EricForman]

Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.

There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere. He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.


that's called a blocking foul. But then I guess you're right. You have a point. In a one on one game, illegal stuff like blocking fouls would be allowed, therefore, fat guys CAN do that. I was going by NBA rulse, where there is no way Shaq could keep up with Jordan off the dribble. But yeah you're right, in a one on one, Shaq could probably get away with what you just described, meaning ILLEGAL basketball moves.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue who would win, I just disagreed with Shaq being able to guard jordan out on the perimeter.... but I forgot to factor in the illegal-ness of a one on one game.

[-primetime-]

Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.

Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.

The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.

Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"
Eric, thank you for the back up and helping these morons relealize that they are....morons.

that being said I have to argue with you about the fact that MJ couldn't guard Shaq...if we where to assume that this game is being reffed then MJ would have to do is is stand there and rack up charging fouls because Shaq sure as hell does not have the skills to drive past him...

[-primetime-]

Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.

There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere. He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.
ok....you are just a high school kid...makes sense now.

yeah, any 300 lb old guy would destroy a high school kid in a game of one on one....especially if it is un reffed...now I can see how you became brain washed into thinking that MJ would lose to Shaq one on one..

[-primetime-]

that's called a blocking foul. But then I guess you're right. You have a point. In a one on one game, illegal stuff like blocking fouls would be allowed, therefore, fat guys CAN do that. I was going by NBA rulse, where there is no way Shaq could keep up with Jordan off the dribble. But yeah you're right, in a one on one, Shaq could probably get away with what you just described, meaning ILLEGAL basketball moves.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue who would win, I just disagreed with Shaq being able to guard jordan out on the perimeter.... but I forgot to factor in the illegal-ness of a one on one game.
when this thread started I assumed two things about the situation...

1. FULL COURT

2. REFS

if we are talking about a half court anything goes game then things are very different

[Richie2k6]

A one on one game is usually a half court game where you have to clear it at half court with NO refs and only obvious, hard fouls are counted, if not, no fouls at all.

[Rojogaqu11]

Someone like KG would give MJ some problems in a one on one game but nahh.
To beat MJ in a one on one game you would have to be first of all a decent to great defender, good speed and quickness, have many different ways of scoring, some type of advantage over MJ like 3pt shooting, height, weight, or something, and some type of mental toughness cause MJ would make you pay for every basket you score.

All time, the one who I think would give more problems to MJ in a one on one game and probably beat him would be The Dream. But that's just a thought.

[-primetime-]

A one on one game is usually a half court game where you have to clear it at half court with NO refs and only obvious, hard fouls are counted, if not, no fouls at all.
well yeah, when you are a kid...

but since we are talking about to professionals I had got the idea that it would be done in a professional manner...

kind of like the Shaq vs. hakeem one on one pay per view game that almost went down...

[thenextgreatbigman]

when this thread started I assumed two things about the situation...

1. FULL COURT

2. REFS

if we are talking about a half court anything goes game then things are very different
you don't play full court one on one ever. That just ends up a layup drill.

[-primetime-]

you don't play full court one on one ever. That just ends up a layup drill.
you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...

I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...

at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...

[Jailblazers7]

you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...

I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...

at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...

Why would they ever play fullcourt? I could see them playing with refs possibly but never full court that would just be retarded.

[thenextgreatbigman]

you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...

I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...

at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...
yeah but when i was arguing this i meant half court because last time i checked all 1on1 games are half court.

[-primetime-]

yeah but when i was arguing this i meant half court because last time i checked all 1on1 games are half court.
when Shaq was going to play hakeem on Pay per View it was going to be full court...

the reason most one on one games are half court is for the simple fact that most people don't grow up with a FULL COURT...

since we were talking Shaq vs. the GOAT I didn't have ghetto ball in my head

[Rockets(T-mac)]

when Shaq was going to play hakeem on Pay per View it was going to be full court...

the reason most one on one games are half court is for the simple fact that most people don't grow up with a FULL COURT...

since we were talking Shaq vs. the GOAT I didn't have ghetto ball in my head
You cant play 1on1 with the full court the faster player will just win. And how would you inbound the ball or would you check it and where would you check it. 1on1 was made to be played half court or else theres on defense.

[-primetime-]

You cant play 1on1 with the full court the faster player will just win. And how would you inbound the ball or would you check it and where would you check it. 1on1 was made to be played half court or else theres on defense.
the same way you do with half court....pass it to your oppent behind the line and he passes it back to you...then you dribble it in...

the only difference is the other length of the court you have to dribble...

when I play half court one on one you have to dribble behind the line when you get a defensinve rebound anyway...do you not play the same way?

[Loki]

the same way you do with half court....pass it to your oppent behind the line and he passes it back to you...then you dribble it in...

the only difference is the other length of the court you have to dribble...

when I play half court one on one you have to dribble behind the line when you get a defensinve rebound anyway...do you not play the same way?

Yes, you usually have to clear the ball either at the foul line or three-point line in a halfcourt 1-on-1. And yes, 1-on-1's are usually (as in, 99% of the time) played half court, not full. In fact, the only times I've ever played 1-on-1 full court is when a buddy and I were trying to get some exercise and warm up before the rest of the guys got there, and even that was only a couple of times in my life.

[-primetime-]

Yes, you usually have to clear the ball either at the foul line or three-point line in a halfcourt 1-on-1. And yes, 1-on-1's are usually (as in, 99% of the time) played half court, not full. In fact, the only times I've ever played 1-on-1 full court is when a buddy and I were trying to get some exercise and warm up before the rest of the guys got there, and even that was only a couple of times in my life.
like I said before...the reason that people grow up playing one on one half court is because nobody grows up with a full court in thier back yard like Master P has...

we all had a rim posted up in our drive way

[Jailblazers7]

The only time i played full court 1 on 1 is when i used it as a conditioning exercise and im pretty sure Shaq doesnt give a damn about conditioning. That is BS to say that if people grew up on full court they would play full court 1 on 1. Why dont you see kids in NY playing full court 1 on 1 at the playground then?

[Wadeisabeast]

like I said before...the reason that people grow up playing one on one half court is because nobody grows up with a full court in thier back yard like Master P has...

we all had a rim posted up in our drive way

that is just stupid. Why the f*ck would you want to play full court 1vs1? I've played 2vs2 full court, and after a few points its basically a layup contest and everybody is tired by the 10th point. I still can't believe how stupid you are arguing that. And calling it ghetto ball? seriously.:hammerhead:

And Jordan would easily beat Shaq and Jordan.

[-primetime-]

that is just stupid. Why the f*ck would you want to play full court 1vs1? I've played 2vs2 full court, and after a few points its basically a layup contest and everybody is tired by the 10th point. I still can't believe how stupid you are arguing that. And calling it ghetto ball? seriously.:hammerhead:

And Jordan would easily beat Shaq and Jordan.
now that I think about it you are right that I was wrong to assume full court, but I don't think I was being ridiculous or anything

i guess because of the fact that we were talking Shaq vs. Jordan I assumed a full court fully reffed professional style type game...much like the Shaq vs. Hakeem pay per view match...

at least you agree that Jordan would win this battle

[bdreason]

Jordan would school LeBron.

Jordan has moves LBJ can only dream about.

[beau_boy04]

Jordan would school LeBron.

Jordan has moves LBJ can only dream about.

:applause: for your simple and short effort ;) but good effort still :)

[Bahamian Balla]

Where was Jordan great defense one on one versus magic in the 91 finals. I remember Pippen had to guard a crying and abused Jordan. Magic and Kareem the two best individuals players playing on the same team. Best duo also.

[InfiniteBaskets]

There's waaaaaaaay too many things being argued in this thread.

Jordan or LeBron?
First off, Jordan would beat LeBron in a one on one half court call your own fouls game. LeBron can bully all he wants, but Jordan will definitely find a way to win whether it's trash talking or sticking some cheap shots. Jordan wasn't exactly the cleanest player every to grace the NBA. Jordan is more polished defesively, offensively, and has more expereience in basketball in general. Jordan in his prime would beat LeBron of right now. The LeBron of right now isnt' even in his prime yet, wait a few years, maybe even eight years.

Jordan or Shaq? (aka Small VS Big in one on one)
In one on one, call your own fouls, the stronger guy usually has an advantage because they can just back up on you. They'll starting posting from the three point line and just dribbing backwards while keeping their body between you and the ball, which is the strategy Shaq will prob use.
However, I think Jordan would be quick enough to apply pressure and force a missed shot or turnover at least half the time. Jordan was great with his hands, quick as hell.

And also how would Shaq guard Jordan? There's a reason why Shaq ALWAYs switches back to his man on pick and rolls. It's because any guard can easily drive around Shaq. Now Shaq could play dirty and just bump a driving guard while they are side by side and depending on how Jordan calls his fouls this could be a big part of the game. If Jordan doesn't call fouls on Shaq then he's gonna be in for a work out, and he needs to be very solid with his shooting. I say they'll split it 50 50 in half court one on one call your own fouls.

[Agent_Zero]

Jordan wins this. Better jumpshot and more clutchness so with it tied up at 20 and MJ's got the ball you know it's over.

[WhiteMosɘs]

Defense: MJ
Shooting: MJ
Dribbling: LBJ
Size: LBJ
Slashing: MJ
Clutch: MJ


LeBron would be too busy looking to pass the ball off when there was pressure. MJ wins.

[cured]

Jordan would roast LeBron. LeBron's biggest asset in that game would be his ability to get to the basket but Jordan was one of the best defenders in the game and he'd make LeBron beat him from the outside. LeBron's jumper isn't consistent enough for a game like that. Besides when LeBron guards Jordan, he'd be eaten alive.

[The Answer]

Defense: MJ
Shooting: MJ
Dribbling: LBJ
Size: LBJ
Slashing: MJ
Clutch: MJ


LeBron would be too busy looking to pass the ball off when there was pressure. MJ wins.

Jordan's definately the better ball handler. He's more skilled in every aspect of the game.

[dejordan]

Where was Jordan great defense one on one versus magic in the 91 finals. I remember Pippen had to guard a crying and abused Jordan. Magic and Kareem the two best individuals players playing on the same team. Best duo also.
watch games instead of listening to rumors. jordan guarded magic the majority of the time. and beat him in 5 games. he also won their career series matchup 6 to 5 and held magic below his averages for the years they met in the regular season (including all of magic's mvp years). in fact if you'd been watching ball in the 80s you might have heard jordan referred to as one of the top magic johnson defenders of the day.

if you're wondering jordan's averages are all higher. in fact he had 2 more rebounds than magic, 12 more points, 1.5 more steals, and 1 more block per game. magic did have 4 more assists. than a shooting guard. who won more games despite not having kareem on his team. of course magic didn't guard jordan because magic didn't guard any good offensive players if riley could find a way to hide him.

nice try though. give it five or six years and you'll be able to say made up crap like that and there won't be anyone old enough to actually remember the games to correct you.

[Loki]

Dribbling: LBJ



Jordan's definately the better ball handler. He's more skilled in every aspect of the game.

You saved me the trouble... :D

[AirGordon7]

you should be banned for this thread and if ANYONE picks Lebron I will be shocked...

Jordan's Defense >>>>> Lebron's defense

Lebron wouldn't even be able to score

and Jordan's offense > Lebron's O

Jordan is much more consistant than Lebron is...

jesus christ...Lebron has one great playoff series and now he can beat Jordan one on one!!!!!!

I thought this thread was a joke when I read the title
I agree with everything you said Jordan would school Lebron.

The only person that can beat Jordan is Jordan

[beau_boy04]

More like 30.

And guys, size doesn't matter.

:applause: finally i hear an intelligent comment. :cheers: to ya. Dennis Rodman could be one of the perfect example - he went up against bigger and maybe stronger opponents, just to name a few - Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, etc.

Lebron may have the size advantage but Jordan would be able to stop him 5 out of 10 times. Lebron will only be able to stop Jordan 2 out of 10 times.

Jordan wins ! easily! to Lebron.

:cheers: to Jordan. and :hammerhead: to Lebron.

[beau_boy04]

to Jordan???? are you kidding me

all jordan would have to do is step out side and shoot the ball....no need to drive...

and Shaq can't dribble worth a SH-IT...Jordan would steal the ball 90% of the time...

Jordan 100
Shaq 8

:applause: give Shaq a break, we all know he can't dribble for sh-it. If they play full court 1 on 1 MJ wins 21-10. If they play half court 1 on 1 MJ wins again 21-15

Book it

[beau_boy04]

Nice Video...

Looks like Jordan is taking this by a Landslide,

Can some one please make a case for LeBron?

he's takin steroids? :cheers:

[beau_boy04]

Unless LeBron becomes a solid defender and develops that consistent jump shot, MJ wins easily.

for some reason I dont see that happening anytime soon, "its just basketball to him"

:)

[mid80sjordan]

Obviously, you don't know anything. Since when are dunks, baby hook shots, 45% free throw percentage, and simply mauling guys to get to the hoop considered skilled? Any 350 pounder can use his weight and barrel people over. How many guys at 7'+ can do just about anything from defense to 3 pointers other than Dirk Nowitzki?
then why don't they?

is shaq just the only one to figure it out? hey, maybe i can just run over people. no, shaq is an athletic freak.

[Psileas]

if you're wondering jordan's averages are all higher. in fact he had 2 more rebounds than magic, 12 more points, 1.5 more steals, and 1 more block per game. magic did have 4 more assists. than a shooting guard. who won more games despite not having kareem on his team. of course magic didn't guard jordan because magic didn't guard any good offensive players if riley could find a way to hide him.

I guess you took these numbers from the "head2head" section of basketball-reference. Note, however, that in these 11 games, they include a game where Magic only played for 10 minutes (an injury kept him out for 5 games) and the 1996 game, when Magic was past his prime.

Even if we exclude only the 1st game, his numbers go up, from 20.1/5.7/10.8 to 21.4/6.1/11.5.

[dejordan]

I guess you took these numbers from the "head2head" section of basketball-reference. Note, however, that in these 11 games, they include a game where Magic only played for 10 minutes (an injury kept him out for 5 games) and the 1996 game, when Magic was past his prime.

Even if we exclude only the 1st game, his numbers go up, from 20.1/5.7/10.8 to 21.4/6.1/11.5.
yes i did. wanted to see if magic did indeed hand it to mj, statiscially speaking.

i believe those numbers are still below his career averages. you make a good point though. anyway, my point wasn't to run down magic, greatest pg ever, just to indicate that jordan's defense on magic was by no means sub-standard. i think the evidence supports that. not as well as watching mike defend did, but well enough.

[td21spurs]

With all respect to Lebron James, he wouldn't be a challenge for MJ. i'll wait to see how he will develop his skills, though, before judging him any further.

[Lebron23]

I have to go with prime LeBron.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Prime / Peak MJ got this easy

[bullettooth]

It is a close game so i would say Michael Jordan will win this one :cheers:

Duh.

[Axe]

Duh.
Good observation.

[Bronbron23]

Lebron. One on one is a totally different game. Without having to worry about other defenders or 3 second call lebron could just back mj down every possession. Now if its one on one with only 3-5 dribbles like how we play sometimes then its mj all day.

[72-10]

I'm not convinced LeBron would score any points.

[Manny98]

LeBron would win, MJ is too little

[Turbo Slayer]

I'm not convinced LeBron would score any points.

Uh no.

[FKAri]

You ever seen a screwhole on old dilapidated wood that's been outdoors and sat through sun, rain and snow for years? One which no screw anchor in the world could ever salvage? That'd be what MJ's ass looks like after Lebron's done with him.

[Axe]

You ever seen a screwhole on old dilapidated wood that's been outdoors and sat through sun, rain and snow for years? One which no screw anchor in the world could ever salvage? That'd be what MJ's ass looks like after Lebron's done with him.
https://media.giphy.com/media/oaPcDncoLfgjK/giphy.gif

[dbugz]

I'll take MJ the #1 GOAT against a 15-20ish rated guy in the goat list.

[Axe]

I'll take MJ the #1 GOAT against a 15-20ish rated guy in the goat list.
You have to know that the latter is currently the top or leads in turnovers amongst the active players in the league. Truly a goat in that aspect if you ask me.

[Duncan21formvp]

Depends what they play to.

If to 11, MJ 11 and Lebron 4
If to 21, MJ 21 and Lebron 8
If to 32, MJ 32 and Lebron 14

[1987_Lakers]

I give the bigger guy the edge in 1 on 1. LeBron can use his size and strength advantage on Jordan.

Ever seen Kareem and Dr. J go at it 1 on 1? Kareem was posting his ass up and shooting sky hooks all day, it was a massacre.

[Duncan21formvp]

I give the bigger guy the edge in 1 on 1. LeBron can use his size and strength advantage on Jordan.

Ever seen Kareem and Dr. J go at it 1 on 1? Kareem was posting his ass up and shooting sky hooks all day, it was a massacre.

Do you think The Rock would kick Bruce Lee's ass as well because he is bigger?

[DoctorP]

I give the bigger guy the edge in 1 on 1. LeBron can use his size and strength advantage on Jordan.

Ever seen Kareem and Dr. J go at it 1 on 1? Kareem was posting his ass up and shooting sky hooks all day, it was a massacre.

now that I gotta see. link?

[Duncan21formvp]

now that I gotta see. link?

This happened in a legends classic when both had been retired for years https://www.mcall.com/news/mc-xpm-1992-02-29-2839431-story.html

[Turbo Slayer]

Without bias, Jordan would win 6 out of 10 games against LeBron. Jordan has the ultimate 1v1 package. Fadeaway, post ups, and movement. Jordan clearly takes this one imo. This coming from a LeBron stan. :applause:

[DoctorP]

This happened in a legends classic when both had been retired for years https://www.mcall.com/news/mc-xpm-1992-02-29-2839431-story.html

"Erving, either inspired or angered by the chants for Magic, staged a brief rally early in the fourth period. He threw down one of his trademark slam dunks and then came back on defense to swat away a Jabbar shot."

:lol

Erving didn't have his hops. I'd love to see who would win something like Prime Curry vs Prime Shaq. 3Ball vs Post Dom

[Axe]

Without bias, Jordan would win 6 out of 10 games against LeBron. Jordan has the ultimate 1v1 package. Fadeaway, post ups, and movement. Jordan clearly takes this one imo. This coming from a LeBron stan. :applause:
You will get berated here for having such opinion.

[Turbo Slayer]

You will get berated here for having such opinion.
:lol

[1987_Lakers]

"Erving, either inspired or angered by the chants for Magic, staged a brief rally early in the fourth period. He threw down one of his trademark slam dunks and then came back on defense to swat away a Jabbar shot."

:lol

Erving didn't have his hops. I'd love to see who would win something like Prime Curry vs Prime Shaq. 3Ball vs Post Dom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3DWaKXaAYA

[DoctorP]

im at the 8 minute mark.

Dr. J shouldnt have worn those gloves. J kept driving right into Kareems chest. Terrible strategy.

[Bronbron23]

Maybe not the rock but thats a terrible analogy. Mj and bron are both at the very top in the same sport. The rock isnt a fighter hes an actor. For your analogy to work youd have to use one of the best heavyweight ufc fighters of all time as a comparison.

And yes pick almost any all time top 10 ufc heavyweight and hed destroy bruce lee.

[JohnFreeman]

I am probably the biggest LeBron fan on ish, but he wouldn't score once against Jordan. I think most top 100 players could beat LeBron. BIG FAN of him though.

BIG FAN

[Lebron23]

I am probably the biggest LeBron fan on ish, but he wouldn't score once against Jordan. I think most top 100 players could beat LeBron. BIG FAN of him though.

BIG FAN
Welcome back troll. How's your basement??

[JohnFreeman]

Welcome back troll. How's your basement??

Hey midget

[Lebron23]

Hey midget

You are a dickhead. Now pour in some gasoline in your basement, and just suffocate. 21,0000. Of useless posts. You're pathetic.

[JohnFreeman]

You are a dickhead. Now pour in some gasoline in your basement, and just suffocate. 21,0000. Of useless posts. You're pathetic.

At least my country has gasoline, got running water in the Phillipines?

[Lebron23]

At least my country has gasoline, got running water in the Phillipines?

We have running water. Now go back use your other account. And stop being a p*$$y.

[JohnFreeman]

We have running water. Now go back use your other account. And stop being a p*$$y.

Ok I will login to Mr. Jabbar

[Axe]

A debate thread has turned into some troll thread real quick yo.

[red1]

I would say jordan because lebron is at his best in the team game and mj is a pure scorer.



the footage of that CEO cooking mj has put some serious doubt into my confidence though.


https://m.wsj.net/video/20081113/110708ariel2/110708ariel2_640x360.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/20120721_John_W._Rogers%2C_Jr.JPG/1200px-20120721_John_W._Rogers%2C_Jr.JPG