How will people remember T-Mac when his career is over?

[L.Kizzle]

Tracy McGrady, is one of the top players in this current generation.


http://www.prosportsmemorabilia.com/Images/Product/33-24/33-24067-F.jpg


Lets just say he never gets out of the first round when his time is up, how will people look at his career.


His first two seasons in Toronto, he was stuck on the bench and didn't really get playing time until his third season there. By that time time he was a top bench performer, a good defender and was a major part of the offense with cousin Vince Carter. He was also looking to go elsewhere and packed up to head home doen to Florida to be part of an Orlando Magic duo hat included superstar Grant Hill.


Well we'll never know what that duo would have accomplished in Diseny Land. But there, Tracy turned into one of the best all-around players in the leauge. He became a 4 time All-Star, mutlipe All-NBA teams and a two time scoring champ. But the one thing he was knocked and critized on was his lack of playoff success.


So one duo was ending as another was beggining. He joind up and coming big man Yoa Ming to form (what critics said) was the new coming of Shaq & Kobe. The first season in Houston, the Rockets win 51 games and faced Dallas in round one and were beat in 7. The next season was probally T-Mac'[s worst since he became a superstar. Injured for much of the season (along with Yao) they missed the post season.


This season lost of folks were on to the new generation of stars as they predicted McGrady's back wouldn't hold up, he proved them wrong to lead the Rockets to a 52-20 record. But once again they were gone in 7.


So if Tracy's carrer continues to go the way it has been (I hope not) what will be the talk on Tracy after his playing days are finished?

[fatboy11]

"What should have been....."

[JtotheIzzo]

Tracy McGrady, is one of the top players in this current generation.


http://www.prosportsmemorabilia.com/Images/Product/33-24/33-24067-F.jpg


Lets just say he never gets out of the first round when his time is up, how will people look at his career.




they wont look at him as one of the top players of this current generation.

[StroShow4]

i will remember him as a great scorer who got injured and was never able to win anything.. unless ofcourse he gets out of the first round sometime in the near future.

[Kobe24]

As a second round virgin. Just kidding. Probably about the same way people remember DR.J. A guy who had all the talent in the world but couldn't win a ring. They were both at times considered the best player in the league but weren't fortunate enough to win a championship. Yes, I'm well aware that Mcgrady still has the oppurtunity to win a ring.

[EricForman]

Tracy McGrady, is one of the top players in this current generation.


http://www.prosportsmemorabilia.com/Images/Product/33-24/33-24067-F.jpg


Lets just say he never gets out of the first round when his time is up, how will people look at his career.


His first two seasons in Toronto, he was stuck on the bench and didn't really get playing time until his third season there. By that time time he was a top bench performer, a good defender and was a major part of the offense with cousin Vince Carter. He was also looking to go elsewhere and packed up to head home doen to Florida to be part of an Orlando Magic duo hat included superstar Grant Hill.


Well we'll never know what that duo would have accomplished in Diseny Land. But there, Tracy turned into one of the best all-around players in the leauge. He became a 4 time All-Star, mutlipe All-NBA teams and a two time scoring champ. But the one thing he was knocked and critized on was his lack of playoff success.


So one duo was ending as another was beggining. He joind up and coming big man Yoa Ming to form (what critics said) was the new coming of Shaq & Kobe. The first season in Houston, the Rockets win 51 games and faced Dallas in round one and were beat in 7. The next season was probally T-Mac'[s worst since he became a superstar. Injured for much of the season (along with Yao) they missed the post season.


This season lost of folks were on to the new generation of stars as they predicted McGrady's back wouldn't hold up, he proved them wrong to lead the Rockets to a 52-20 record. But once again they were gone in 7.


So if Tracy's carrer continues to go the way it has been (I hope not) what will be the talk on Tracy after his playing days are finished?


He'll be ranked where he belongs

behind

Kobe
Iverson
Lebron
Wade
Paul Pierce
Nash
Kidd
Duncan
Dirk
KG



FARRRR behind

[EricForman]

As a second round virgin. Just kidding. Probably about the same way people remember DR.J. A guy who had all the talent in the world but couldn't win a ring. They were both at times considered the best player in the league but weren't fortunate enough to win a championship. Yes, I'm well aware that Mcgrady still has the oppurtunity to win a ring.


and are you aware that Dr. J DID win a ring?

And there is still a big middle ground in between "not getting a ring" and "not getting out of the first round". If Iverson never wins a ring he shouldn't be grouped with Tmac cause at least he's willed his team to some playoff series wins and has gone further.

[SCY]

Dr. J did win a championship.

[vert48]

He is going to be remembered kind of like Dominique Wilkins.

[Richie2k6]

Pistol Pete.

[L.Kizzle]

He'll be ranked where he belongs

behind

Kobe
Iverson
Lebron
Wade
Paul Pierce
Nash
Kidd
Duncan
Dirk
KG



FARRRR behind
You think he'll be ranked behind Pierce?

[L.Kizzle]

Doctor has three titles really (2 in the ABA)

[KINGofTHEcourt]

As a second round virgin. Just kidding. Probably about the same way people remember DR.J. A guy who had all the talent in the world but couldn't win a ring. They were both at times considered the best player in the league but weren't fortunate enough to win a championship. Yes, I'm well aware that Mcgrady still has the oppurtunity to win a ring.
If I remember correct Dr. J won a ring with the Sixers in 1982 (was it 1982?), and I think he won several ABA championships. T-Mac isn't on Dr. J's level of talent though.

EDIT - Damn you Kizzle, and everyone else who posted that before me.

[JtotheIzzo]

As a second round virgin. Just kidding. Probably about the same way people remember DR.J. A guy who had all the talent in the world but couldn't win a ring. They were both at times considered the best player in the league but weren't fortunate enough to win a championship. Yes, I'm well aware that Mcgrady still has the oppurtunity to win a ring.

Dr. J won a ring in 83 moron

[SCY]

Fool, he not only won an NBA championship, but the team, the '83 Sixers is considered one of the best of all-time.

[Kobe24]

Dr. J won a ring in 83 moron

Thanks assclown. My point still stands. He'll be remembered the same way as DR.J. Once in a while, his name will pop up in discussions.

[Noob Saibot]

A man who entertained us all with his scoring ability.

[JtotheIzzo]

Thanks assclown. My point still stands. He'll be remembered the same way as DR.J. Once in a while, his name will pop up in discussions.

still counting the ABA :roll:

I think Dr. J is a top fifteen all time player, TMac is a top fifteen player now

big difference

[Fudge]

A guy who can shoot over your face anyday and a guy who had a combination of every skillset today. Most underrated situation from t-mac was that 13 in 35 game. Most memorable game, ever.

[EricForman]

You think he'll be ranked behind Pierce?

well, he SHOULD be, but casual fans won't.

Pierce has had least had a ECF run, and he plays with more heart. He coulda quit on the Celtics the last two years like Tmac did in Orlando.

Numbers are similar, individual accomplishments are similar, sure Tmac is a better individual talent, but Pierce has had some playoff runs, Tmac doesn't.

[TEXAS BATMAN]

Modern day Dominique Wilkins.

Great player, exciting to watch, lots of individual recognition without team success.

[eeeeeebro]

he will be remembered more as an NBA video game character than an actual NBA player cause he failed to realy make anything but 2nd place and never broke the ice with a good team.

[xxxSuperStar]

He'll be remembered as Grant Hill-esque. All the talent, injury problems, desire and toughness questions...

[DAXX]

A dominant scorer who is far from a one-dimensional player. 13 in 30 seconds would probably be the most memorable play in years.

[Richie2k6]

he will be remembered more as an NBA video game character than an actual NBA player cause he failed to realy make anything but 2nd place and never broke the ice with a good team.
The early 2000's Orlando Magic was a good team? :lol:

[melvinthompson]

He'll be remembered as Grant Hill-esque. All the talent, injury problems, desire and toughness questions...

I don't think you can question Hill's desire or toughness. Hill could have easily thrown in the towel, but he's still fighting. Also, Hill was better in his prime than T-Mac has ever been.

[Fudge]

I don't think you can question Hill's desire or toughness. Hill could have easily thrown in the towel, but he's still fighting. Also, Hill was better in his prime than T-Mac has ever been.
You sure? Grant Hill was unquestionably talented back then, but you can't compare Grant Hill's prime to Tracy's Orlando days. So, you got to omit Hill.

[mateo31]

I have the utmost respect for Tracey McGrady. That is really too bad about not getting out of the first round. He has come tantalizingly close a couple of times. This past season his assist and rebound numbers were especially great. He is just such a great talent. He is a great all around player and I will forever think of him as that, regardless.

[L.Kizzle]

Another question, will he be labeled as a loser or as someone who didn't have enough help?

[Rockets(T-mac)]

If he never makes it past the first round he will be remembered as the player that had so many accomplishment in terms of numbers but just could win in the playoffs.

If he does end his career without making the second round I will be very disappointed.

[StroShow4]

well, he SHOULD be, but casual fans won't.

Pierce has had least had a ECF run, and he plays with more heart. He coulda quit on the Celtics the last two years like Tmac did in Orlando.

Numbers are similar, individual accomplishments are similar, sure Tmac is a better individual talent, but Pierce has had some playoff runs, Tmac doesn't.

also, pierce is better in every aspect of the game other than scoring, and he isnt far behind in scoring. pierce is underrated, t-mac is overrated.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

also, pierce is better in every aspect of the game other than scoring, and he isnt far behind in scoring. pierce is underrated, t-mac is overrated.
T-mac is a better playmaker than Pierce, equal defense.

[StroShow4]

T-mac is a better playmaker than Pierce, equal defense.

pierce is most definetly the better play maker. he always leads the celtics in assists, and he doesnt take as many poor shots as t-mac. i have never thought t-mac was a good defender either.

[Fudge]

also, pierce is better in every aspect of the game other than scoring, and he isnt far behind in scoring. pierce is underrated, t-mac is overrated.
T-Mac assembled loads of repect due to his playmaking ability. He gets players more involved in the offense. He takes that aspect as well.

[StroShow4]

T-Mac assembled loads of repect due to his playmaking ability. He gets players more involved in the offense. He takes that aspect as well.

pierce gets people involved just as well as t-mac does. pierce is a team player, he does everything from scoring to playmaking to rebounding to defending to leading the team to making clutch shots.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

pierce is most definetly the better play maker. he always leads the celtics in assists, and he doesnt take as many poor shots as t-mac. i have never thought t-mac was a good defender either.
most definetly a better playmaker?! are you crazy!! T-mac is the leading assist man for the rockets and he does that with Alston who is an ok playmaker. Pierce has no one else to do it. And T-mac's #s are still better than him. If you consider T-mac a SF( NBA.com does) than he is the regular season leader in APG out of any forward. Pierce a better playmaker than T-mac WOW!!!

[Rockets(T-mac)]

pierce gets people involved just as well as t-mac does. pierce is a team player, he does everything from scoring to playmaking to rebounding to defending to leading the team to making clutch shots.
T-mac does all does things too.

[Fudge]

Can averages come into the equation? You're far off. Pierce averages just a hint over 4 assists, while McGrady averages 6.5 and was dealingwith more issues considering Yao's injury.

[StroShow4]

most definetly a better playmaker?! are you crazy!! T-mac is the leading assist man for the rockets and he does that with Alston who is an ok playmaker. Pierce has no one else to do it. And T-mac's #s are still better than him. If you consider T-mac a SF( NBA.com does) than he is the regular season leader in APG out of any forward. Pierce a better playmaker than T-mac WOW!!!

rondo?

[L.Kizzle]

I'd take Mac as a better playmaker.

[StroShow4]

Can averages come into the equation? You're far off. Pierce averages just a hint over 4 assists, while McGrady averages 6.5 and was dealingwith more issues considering Yao's injury.

their career assist averages are almost exactly the same.

[StroShow4]

every single person arguing against me is a rockets fan...

[Rockets(T-mac)]

rondo?
He avg. 3.8 and Alston avg.5.4

[StroShow4]

He avg. 3.8 and Alston avg.5.4

rondo is the better playmaker.. rondo will be a player hes got crazy passing skills.

[Dick Biggly]

Tmac will be remembered for having a bad back and a ****ed up eyeball.

[Fudge]

T-Mac's an above-average defender if some of you don't know. In fact, this year, McGrady averaged more than him in both steals and blocks. From the past, it's a bit of a up and down situation, so we can call it about equal.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

rondo is the better playmaker.. rondo will be a player hes got crazy passing skills.
Yeah he probably will be next year but this year thats what he avg. and thats what Alston avg. see how T-mac avg. more than Pierce with someone else averaging more than Pierce on his team. I conclude that
T-mac is a playmaker. Not just with #s watch the way they play. Both are great at it but T-mac is just better.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

T-Macs a above-average defender if some of you don't know. In fact, this year, McGrady averaged more than him in both steals and blocks. From the past, it's abit of a up and down situation, so we can call it about equal.
Completely agree.

[kobeisgod]

kobe lite

[Noob Saibot]

Paul Pierce is hella underrated. only because his team isn't very good and still young. Whereas T-Mac is currently on a playoff team, but has achieved little success with it so far.

[beau_boy04]

You know at one point Tracy McGrady was being compared to Kobe, at another point he was considered a top 5 player in the league and I thought he was one of the best SG/SF in the league but I was wrong. He has the best center in the league in Yao and can't even take his team pass the first round specially those new kiddos on the block (Utah)... wat a shame i will always remenber him as a crying baby. He almost promised that he was gonna get to the second round, etc

:cheers:

[EricForman]

although i agree tmac is a slightly superior player, pierce is ranked higher and had a better career, simple as that.

Tmac has loads more natural talent and a more gifted basketball body. But Pierce has heart.....

[Rockets(T-mac)]

You know at one point Tracy McGrady was being compared to Kobe, at another point he was considered a top 5 player in the league and I thought he was one of the best SG/SF in the league but I was wrong. He has the best center in the league in Yao and can't even take his team pass the first round specially those new kiddos on the block (Utah)... wat a shame i will always remenber him as a crying baby. He almost promised that he was gonna get to the second round, etc

:cheers:
Firstly Utah is better than Houston. Yao isn't all that great the only reason he is the best center in the league is because that position is so weak.

[melvinthompson]

T-Mac just relies on his jumpshot too damn much. If he would drive more he'd be much more effective. I would have to say though that I enjoyed watching him this year more than any other. He's become a great passer and facilitator--yes better than Pierce.

[LakerWarrior12]

If he doesn't make it past the First Round and doesn't get 1 championship, he will be remembered as a Kobe wannabe.

But that's because I don't like T-Mac.

:pimp:

[Fudge]

You know at one point Tracy McGrady was being compared to Kobe, at another point he was considered a top 5 player in the league and I thought he was one of the best SG/SF in the league but I was wrong. He has the best center in the league in Yao and can't even take his team pass the first round specially those new kiddos on the block (Utah)... wat a shame i will always remenber him as a crying baby. He almost promised that he was gonna get to the second round, etc

:cheers:
He didn't promise nothing, tard. He clearly said that IF they lose, it's on him. That's far from a promise as you may consider.

Best Center in the league in Yao? You got that right. Look at the others around them. Look closely at the suporting cast, specificallly at the rest of the starting line-up. Look at Jeff Van Gundy, their bench for crying out loud. Can you see it? Hope so. One of the worst formula's in the league probably. JVG + Any Roster = Not a playoff contender.

[BlackMoses]

He will be remembered the same way Alex English is remembered.

[Done_And_Done]

You cannot fully dictate how one will be percieved by the general public and his basketball peers once his career comes to a final conclusion for the sole fact that he's still very much an active player within the league. Although this topic might not be overly far fetched considering T-Mac has been quoted on retiring early in the past, so who knows. Nevertheless, when all is said and done Tracy Mcgrady will always be remembered as an extreme talent & natural scoerer on the floor...

But the classic question remains the same

Will he be remembered as a great player who succeeded beyond all the individual milestones with playoff success or will he just be another great talent who could never arrive at the big show?

Nobody can deny that the majority of his time spent as a professional ball player he has unquestionably been one of the top recognized players throughout the league but will he ever acchieve that next step into greatness remains to be seen...


D&D / Done & Done

[SCREWstonRockets]

He didn't promise nothing, tard. He clearly said that IF they lose, it's on him. That's far from a promise as you may consider.

Best Center in the league in Yao? You got that right. Look at the others around them. Look closely at the suporting cast, specificallly at the rest of the starting line-up. Look at Jeff Van Gundy, their bench for crying out loud. Can you see it? Hope so. One of the worst formula's in the league probably. JVG + Any Roster = Not a playoff contender.
Wait, why the hate for JVG? He did a lot with this team after all the mess left over from the Dream Era. He took a Rockets team that consisted of a Young Yao, Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, Moochie Norris, Clearance Whetherspoon, old ass Mark Jackson, Cato and a bunch of other scrubs to the playoffs and made the series closer than it looked. He took a stacked Mavs team to 7 games, almost pulling off the upset. Hell, even this year, he was a big reason why the Rockets were winning games without Yao in the lineup. DEFENSE is the key. Look where the Spurs are and then look where the high powered offense teams like Phoenix and Dallas are.

Say what you want about him but JVG did a lot for this organization. People fail to credit JVG for tirelessly working Yao over and always riding his back. Yao said himself that he wouldn't be this good if it wasn't for JVG getting on him for every little thing. He got T-Mac to play good defense and turned him into a complete player. Basically, there is nothing more JVG could do. At some point, you have to start looking at your players for results. The coach is not the one on the court with the ball in his hands.

[Fudge]

Wait, why the hate for JVG? He did a lot with this team after all the mess left over from the Dream Era. He took a Rockets team that consisted of a Young Yao, Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, Moochie Norris, Clearance Whetherspoon, old ass Mark Jackson, Cato and a bunch of other scrubs to the playoffs and made the series closer than it looked. He took a stacked Mavs team to 7 games, almost pulling off the upset. Hell, even this year, he was a big reason why the Rockets were winning games without Yao in the lineup. DEFENSE is the key. Look where the Spurs are and then look where the high powered offense teams like Phoenix and Dallas are.

Say what you want about him but JVG did a lot for this organization. People fail to credit JVG for tirelessly working Yao over and always riding his back. Yao said himself that he wouldn't be this good if it wasn't for JVG getting on him for every little thing. He got T-Mac to play good defense and turned him into a complete player. Basically, there is nothing more JVG could do. At some point, you have to start looking at your players for results. The coach is not the one on the court with the ball in his hands.
Sure, we had many good regular seasons and sure we docked in the Top 5 in 2 of the past 3 years. But i just didn't see McGrady reaching his primary goal, with Van Gundy, to get past the first round. I couldn't really see it. I respect yours and i don't care what you may consider him. Consider him as a god for all i care but this is just me.

[_KP_The_Familia_]

lol @ people arguing Pierce is better than Tmac now...what is ISH coming to? First everyone wrote him off and there were numerous Melo > Tmac threads. Than Carter > Tmac threads. Than Tmac carries his team and the Tmac > Kobe and Tmac MVP threads start popping up again. Now he gets bounced out of the first round and now Paul ****ing Pierce is better than him?? Not only that but he's also a better play-maker now too?? huh?? what?? Tmac is the only facilitator on the Rockets, the offense runs through him. When he's off the court and Alston has to set-up his teammates, the offense becomes stagnant. Tmac is also a better defender than Pierce when both are playing at their best, i.e. the playoffs. Scoring is not even close, Tmac is naturally a better scorer than Pierce. Pierce could never demolish the San Antonio Spurs in 30 seconds like Tmac did. Basically Tmac gets overrated and underrated here bi-monthly. But the truth is that Tmac is a top 10 player in this league and has been ever since his Orlando days. (minus last year due to injury) Tmac will go down as one of the most naturally talented and gifted ball players ever. IF he had the work ethic of a Kobe Bryant and IF he did not have his back injuries, he would go down as a top 10 player of all time IMO.

[_KP_The_Familia_]

yah, exactly

[IGOTGAME]

Right now after TMacs back injuries....PP34 is better than TMac...Tmac just doesnt attack the same anymore

TMac is overrated and declining quick

[Mathius]

T-Mac will be remembered by the same people who remember Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Glenn Robinson, and a lot of other players who were stars that either didn't win a ring, or didn't win one until they were past the point where they were "the guy".

Also, he will be remembered as one of the pioneers of the high school to the NBA flood that hit the league after Kevin Garnett went #5 to Minnesota.

Mathius

[EricForman]

lol @ people arguing Pierce is better than Tmac now...what is ISH coming to? First everyone wrote him off and there were numerous Melo > Tmac threads. Than Carter > Tmac threads. Than Tmac carries his team and the Tmac > Kobe and Tmac MVP threads start popping up again. Now he gets bounced out of the first round and now Paul ****ing Pierce is better than him?? Not only that but he's also a better play-maker now too?? huh?? what?? Tmac is the only facilitator on the Rockets, the offense runs through him. When he's off the court and Alston has to set-up his teammates, the offense becomes stagnant. Tmac is also a better defender than Pierce when both are playing at their best, i.e. the playoffs. Scoring is not even close, Tmac is naturally a better scorer than Pierce. Pierce could never demolish the San Antonio Spurs in 30 seconds like Tmac did. Basically Tmac gets overrated and underrated here bi-monthly. But the truth is that Tmac is a top 10 player in this league and has been ever since his Orlando days. (minus last year due to injury) Tmac will go down as one of the most naturally talented and gifted ball players ever. IF he had the work ethic of a Kobe Bryant and IF he did not have his back injuries, he would go down as a top 10 player of all time IMO.


Pierce has had a ECF final run (with a average cast at best), that's better than anything Tmac has ever done.

And I (the guy who mentioned Pierce in the first place), never said he was a better individual player than Tmac. I just said Pierce has had a BETTER CAREER and would have to be ranked higher than Tmac if they both retired today (fact).

Tmac is a more natural talent, I know that, hell, Pierce doesn't even have a basketball body, guy's chubby. But still, Pierce has heart. He's had a playoff run at least, better than annything Tmac can claim. And for the record, Pierce can also pull Tmac and Kobe's "I have crap supporting cast" card so no excuses here.

[Real Men Wear Green]

they wont look at him as one of the top players of this current generation.
McGrady is definitely one of the greatest swingmen of his generation. Here's his competition: Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce. Wade, Anthony, and James didn't enter the league until McGrady's prime so I put them in a different generation, though for the record the only one of them that has had a season on par with McGrady's best is James. Of the players truly in McGrady's generation, only Kobe Bryant has a significant accomplishment that McGrady can't match (Championship) and that was accomplished as Shaq's sidekick. McGrady has 2 scoring Championships, and only Bryant of that group of players has more. McGrady, when focused, is the best defender out of that group, is second only to Ray Allen in shooting ability and behind only Carter in athleticism. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen have had more playoff success leading their teams but the reason why I don't hold that against McGrady is that he actually has better playoff stats than any of these guys. 29 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists. Those are some great career playoff numbers that few players in NBA history exceed. Basically, the only advantage Bryant has with winning, and that is due to Shaq. All Carter has is leaping ability, and it's not a big edge, not even much worth mentioning. All Pierce has is durability, and if we see another year like this one us Celtic fans won't talk about that anymore. And all Ray Allen has is shooting ability, which is definitely trumped by McGrady's superior all-around game.

[kumquat]

I'll remember that Ginobili > TMac.

[JtotheIzzo]

McGrady is definitely one of the greatest swingmen of his generation. Here's his competition: Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce. Wade, Anthony, and James didn't enter the league until McGrady's prime so I put them in a different generation, though for the record the only one of them that has had a season on par with McGrady's best is James. Of the players truly in McGrady's generation, only Kobe Bryant has a significant accomplishment that McGrady can't match (Championship) and that was accomplished as Shaq's sidekick. McGrady has 2 scoring Championships, and only Bryant of that group of players has more. McGrady, when focused, is the best defender out of that group, is second only to Ray Allen in shooting ability and behind only Carter in athleticism. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen have had more playoff success leading their teams but the reason why I don't hold that against McGrady is that he actually has better playoff stats than any of these guys. 29 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists. Those are some great career playoff numbers that few players in NBA history exceed. Basically, the only advantage Bryant has with winning, and that is due to Shaq. All Carter has is leaping ability, and it's not a big edge, not even much worth mentioning. All Pierce has is durability, and if we see another year like this one us Celtic fans won't talk about that anymore. And all Ray Allen has is shooting ability, which is definitely trumped by McGrady's superior all-around game.

yeah, I am thinking of 'top' as a smaller group, and that would be elite I guess...Iverson, Shaq, KG, Kobe, TD kind of players. McGrady is a tier two stud...you can talk about the individual skill all day, there is a ton of it there,but if you cant do anything with arguably the best center in the league on your team, how good are you?

and those playoff stats mean jack when it is the first round

[Real Men Wear Green]

and those playoff stats mean jack when it is the first round
Those stats show that he's playing at a high level. How could he not be? It's a team game, so great teams win, not necessarily great players.

[JtotheIzzo]

Those stats show that he's playing at a high level. How could he not be? It's a team game, so great teams win, not necessarily great players.

if there is any league in professional sports where great players win, it is the NBA. For a guy to be in the league for 10 years, score at will in the regular season, and now play with arguably the best center in the game, and he has NEVER made the second round of the playoffs ever.

sorry...you are not top tier.

[Real Men Wear Green]

if there is any league in professional sports where great players win, it is the NBA. For a guy to be in the league for 10 years, score at will in the regular season, and now play with arguably the best center in the game, and he has NEVER made the second round of the playoffs ever.

sorry...you are not top tier.
Not at all true. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar once won MVP on a team that failed to win 40 games. In reality, this was the first year that McGrady has ever even been on a team that was favored to win it's series. Those Orlando teams had Mike Miller for their second-best player and played no defense. You really can't find any part of McGrady's individual performance to criticize. All you can say is, "his team didn't win." That's not his fault.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Not at all true. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar once won MVP on a team that failed to win 40 games. In reality, this was the first year that McGrady has ever even been on a team that was favored to win it's series. Those Orlando teams had Mike Miller for their second-best player and played no defense. You really can't find any part of McGrady's individual performance to criticize. All you can say is, "his team didn't win." That's not his fault.

Thank you. But the thing is, people are not going to look at it like that. They see he has no playoff wins and thats it. And speaking on this season, the first time his team was favored to win and it was not even his fault they lost, although he took full blame. T-Mac did damn near everything this season for the Rockets. He scored, he defended well and he ran the offense. If I'm not mistaking, he also sold popcorn and swept the arena after games.

It's almost fact that ONE guy can't win it alone. Outside of Yao Ming, theres no other player on the team that can create their own offense to take pressure off the big two. Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe/Shaq, and Jordan all had very good role players on their teams. Rafer is a bench player, so is Chuck Hayes. Shane is our best role player but even "Mr. Intangibles" is not enough to win it all. The teams that are the most complete, get it done. In the west anyways.

[DCL]

someone like george gervin -- lead league in scoring a few times, even had ability to explode for 60 points, made some all-nba teams, was a regular all-star every year, but had no playoff success. regarded as one of the game's unstoppable scorers but just couldn't win. tmac will be remembered.

[xxxSuperStar]

Not at all true. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar once won MVP on a team that failed to win 40 games. In reality, this was the first year that McGrady has ever even been on a team that was favored to win it's series. Those Orlando teams had Mike Miller for their second-best player and played no defense. You really can't find any part of McGrady's individual performance to criticize. All you can say is, "his team didn't win." That's not his fault.

Actually, I'd put blame solely on him.

Is he a top 10 player? I say no, you say yes

Is he the leader of the team? Yes

Does the team have very good talent? Yes

Are the Rockets one of the best defensive teams in the league? Yes

T-mac is the "leader" of that team and has led them no where. It is in large part his fault. He hasn't been the same player since he started taking more jump shots than going to the basket. T-Mac in Orlando (when he went to the basket and his FG% was high) was a top 10 player. Now...borderline, at best.

[fatboy11]

T-Mac will be remembered by the same people who remember Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Glenn Robinson, and a lot of other players who were stars that either didn't win a ring, or didn't win one until they were past the point where they were "the guy".Oh sh!t. I forgot Glenn Robinson even existed.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I keep seeing that people say he is playing with the best center in the league and he hasn't got past the first round. Yao was only the best center in the league this year (if he even is). He was injured last year and the year before that shaq was the best. If Yao was playing all year this year and didn't miss 2 months, I bet the rockets would have been in the second round because they would have won more games and faced like the Nuggets or Lakers which would have been much easier than the Jazz. T-mac has performed great in the playoffs his worst year was hes one year on Toronto. If you guys think Paul Pierce is better than him than theres no hope for you. And those who said Pierce had an ok team when he made it to the WCF you are dumb. That team was very good. They had Walker and a bunch of very good role players. T-mac even on the rockets has one great player Yao and a bunch of inconsistant not reliable role players. Add a coach that didn't know how to run an offense and you get the rockets getting kicked out first round. By the way the Jazz are better than Houston this year. Rockets were the favourites because the jazz has still not shown all that they were capable of. If you people honestly think that pierce is better than T-mac now or the last 4-5 years than you are wrong.......

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Actually, I'd put blame solely on him.

Is he a top 10 player? I say no, you say yes

Is he the leader of the team? Yes

Does the team have very good talent? Yes

Are the Rockets one of the best defensive teams in the league? Yes

T-mac is the "leader" of that team and has led them no where. It is in large part his fault. He hasn't been the same player since he started taking more jump shots than going to the basket. T-Mac in Orlando (when he went to the basket and his FG% was high) was a top 10 player. Now...borderline, at best.
The talent on the team other then T-mac is Yao and the rest are too inconsistant to relay on. They are a good team but I would say elite.

The Rockets do one of the best defense in the league but they have below average offense. Other then T-mac and Yao the team has no offense, when T-mac leaves the court the offense is horrible. They are lost and Alston doesn't know how the run the offense properly. Yao can still score but he can't run the offense so they are lucky to keep a lead when T-mac is on the bench.

[Richie2k6]

IF he had the work ethic of a Kobe Bryant and IF he did not have his back injuries, he would go down as a top 10 player of all time IMO.
What?!

They had Walker and a bunch of very good role players.
Not really... I think back then they had players like Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk if I remember properly. Pierce and Walker ran that team.

[L.Kizzle]

How far up the All-Time ladder can T-Mac rise if he starts to have some success the upcoming years?

[Richie2k6]

How far up the All-Time ladder can T-Mac rise if he starts to have some success the upcoming years?
Define "success".

[DAXX]

Define "success".
Advance to the second round. A possible MVP award.

[L.Kizzle]

Define "success".
He starts winning some playoff series (not necessarily winning ships) buts starts taking Houston on some deep playoff runs and what not.

[Richie2k6]

Advance to the second round. A possible MVP award.
He still would be behind many players if he got to the second round. Only a personal accomplishment. On a ranking scale, getting to the second round is nothing special. If were to win an MVP, he'd be a lock for HOF. Which he probably already is.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Actually, I'd put blame solely on him.

Is he a top 10 player? I say no, you say yes

Is he the leader of the team? Yes

Does the team have very good talent? Yes

Are the Rockets one of the best defensive teams in the league? Yes

T-mac is the "leader" of that team and has led them no where. It is in large part his fault. He hasn't been the same player since he started taking more jump shots than going to the basket. T-Mac in Orlando (when he went to the basket and his FG% was high) was a top 10 player. Now...borderline, at best.
The only thing you said here of any relevance was that McGrady shoots too many jumpers. And while he did shoot poorly, averaging 25 points, 7 assists, and 6 rebounds per game saying that the loss was mainly his fault is idiotic.

If you guys think Paul Pierce is better than him than theres no hope for you. And those who said Pierce had an ok team when he made it to the WCF you are dumb. That team was very good. They had Walker and a bunch of very good role players. T-mac even on the rockets has one great player Yao and a bunch of inconsistant not reliable role players. Add a coach that didn't know how to run an offense and you get the rockets getting kicked out first round. By the way the Jazz are better than Houston this year. Rockets were the favourites because the jazz has still not shown all that they were capable of. If you people honestly think that pierce is better than T-mac now or the last 4-5 years than you are wrong.......
The third best player on that ECF team Pierce lead was Eric Williams. It could be argued that the EC being weak helped Pierce out, but I don't get how anyone that actually watched that team in actiuon could say that it was especially talented or deep. They played hard, which can make up for a talent deficit, but they weren't that good. And FYI, Pierce did better than McGrady in 03-04 (the year McGrady quit on Orlando) and 05-06 (McGrady's back killed his season). Tracy McGrady is more talented than Paul Pierce and if he can stay healthy will normally have a better season, but issues have held him back from reaching his full potential in the past. Taking Pierce over McGrady isn't as unreasonable as you'd like to believe. I'd definitely rather have Pierce when things are going badly, as his loyalty to the Celtics has been demonstrated whereas McGrady did give up on the Magic in sad fashion.

[EuJazz]

I'll always think about T-Mac as a whiny b!tch who thinks he's a shooter, but can't shoot.

[JtotheIzzo]

he's never been out of the first falkin round people.

that might not be a big deal to all you prepubescent wankers who have his poster on your wall and think he jumps really high and is really cool, but the only reason players play this game is to win, and if not making a finals affects someone's legacy, not winning a playoff series destroys a legacy.

It just does...this year he had the best center in the league andhe said it was 'all on him' and he still came up lame.

doesn't have 'it'

yes I know he dropped thirteen in 35 seconds, but I also saw Meadowlark Lemon drop five in a row from half and Clyde the Glide Austin throw down from the foul line at a Globetrotters game when I was young and that was pretty special too.

[Kobe_6/8]

https://ymswwc.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tracy-mcgrady.jpg

[Springsteen]

https://ymswwc.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tracy-mcgrady.jpg

He made the finals, don't be rude.

[dreamwarrior]

He made the finals, don't be rude.
He didn't even play in the regular season and scored 0 points in the playoffs. I still wish he had won a ring that year, but oh well.