Would you trade Greg Oden for Tim Duncan?

[fatboy11]

Serious question, guys.

[El Kabong]

No, even though Oden hasn't played a game, and you have no idea how good he'll be, I wouldn't trade young for old.

[fatboy11]

No, even though Oden hasn't played a game, and you have no idea how good he'll be, I wouldn't trade young for old.Okay. So we have our first risk taker.

[RoseCity07]

No, more chances to win with Oden then Duncan. Plus you never know how good Oden will become. Duncan gets dunked on all the time by players, lets see if this happens to Oden.

[fatboy11]

Duncan gets dunked on all the time by players, lets see if this happens to Oden.So what?

I don't think Oden is going to be schooling guys in almost every way imaginable on offense while still being a top notch defender. It is a well known fact that defenders get dunked on because they don't get out of the way.

[RoseCity07]

So what?

I don't think Oden is going to be schooling guys in almost every way imaginable on offense while still being a top notch defender. It is a well known fact that defenders get dunked on because they don't get out of the way.


You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.

[fatboy11]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.Are you serious?

Tim Duncan > Bill Russell on offense

Duncan sucks on defense? Check his credentials, kid.

Look, obviously, you are like 14 and just started watching basketball like 2 years ago, but your lack knowledge cannot be tolerated by me.

Yes, you are right about Oden's potential being worth more than Tim Duncan right now. Everything else you've said is dead wrong and just really, really stupid, though.

[JtotheIzzo]

Err on the side of youth and err on the side of size.

Duncan is better, but he will no longer be in his prime by the time Portland is ready to win.

Go wit da kid

[Nashformvp]

in a couple years when duncan is as old as mutombo and oden is dominating the league...:D

[RoseCity07]

Are you serious?

Tim Duncan > Bill Russell on offense

Duncan sucks on defense? Check his credentials, kid.

Look, obviously, you are like 14 and just started watching basketball like 2 years ago, but your lack knowledge cannot be tolerated by me.

Yes, you are right about Oden's potential being worth more than Tim Duncan right now. Everything else you've said is dead wrong and just really, really stupid, though.

I'm 20 in a month been watching NBA since 95. Duncan may be better on offense but Bill Russell has 11 championships. A good defensive center is more important. You don't know how good Oden will be come next year. He is going to go through NBA conditioning and have both hands good to go. Why would the Blazers want Time Duncan when they can have to great prospects playing side by side in Aldridge and Oden?

[fatboy11]

in a couple years when duncan is as old as mutombo and oden is dominating the league...:DIn a couple of years, Duncan will still be an All-NBA player and Oden might not even have an All-Star berth under this belt......

[Collie]

What the hell? TD not a good defensive player??

I like Oden, and I'm positive he'll be a HOF center, but I'm 100% sure he would be dunked on by athletic guys. All the great centers were dunked on, its not a knock.

[fatboy11]

I'm 20 in a month been watching NBA since 95. Duncan may be better on offense but Bill Russell has 11 championships. A good defensive center is more important. You don't know how good Oden will be come next year. He is going to go through NBA conditioning and have both hands good to go. Why would the Blazers want Time Duncan when they can have to great prospects playing side by side in Aldridge and Oden?God damnit, kid. I'm not arguing against your choice of not wanting to trade Oden. But you're too stupid to see that.

Is Tim Duncan not a good defensive center? Name one center in the NBA who plays better defense than Tim Duncan. Name one center who is better offensively.

Bill Russell wouldn't have won 11 championships if played today, either. It hurts me to even have to explain this to someone.

Do you see know how what you are saying is just plain dumb?

[El Kabong]

In a couple of years, Duncan will still be an All-NBA player and Oden might not even have an All-Star berth under this belt......
I know, that's what makes it so difficult. You're making the assumption based on youth and potential, but potential doesn't always work out the way you plan.

[eeeeeebro]

If I was GM of Spurs i would trade duncan. WHY? because the spurs dynasty will last how long? 2 - 3 more years? or 10 more years with oden. The youth makes Oden > duncan.


But hey you never know the way duncan is playing and the great shape he is in he might be one of them athlets that last into the age of 40s.

[geeWiz15]

are you guys serious?

YES you do are you joking? it's TIM DUNCAN. you trade anything for Tim Duncan. you trade your franchise player, your car, your soul, and your favorite pair of kicks for Tim Duncan. in an instant, no thought required, you win.

that said I wouldn't trade Bron for Duncan. Bron's too young and too good. but what the fu.ck has Greg Oden done to warrant this proposal?

[Y2Gezee]

Who would you trade for Oden? There are a lot of top 10 or fringe top 10 players under 25. And you don't really know if Oden will be any better than Okafor right now, if even that (just saying, he's unproven in the league).

If I'm them, I'd think hard about the possibility of Wade/Bron/Melo for him. Not saying any of those teams would offer that, but hypothetically speaking. Melo and Bron atleast are only 23 years old (Bron will be soon after the season) and top 10 talents and made terrible franchises winning teams.

None of those trades would get done, but seriously I don't think about trading an unproven pick for great players that young. And really think about the Duncan move, but I'd have to make sure I have the right players around him.

[fatboy11]

If I'm them, I'd think hard about the possibility of Wade/Bron/Melo for him. Not saying any of those teams would offer that, but hypothetically speaking. Melo and Bron atleast are only 23 years old (Bron will be soon after the season) and top 10 talents and made terrible franchises winning teams.Best you can hope for is Melo because Wade and LeBron won't be offered. No way in hell.

I don't know if I would trade Oden for Melo, but a frontline of Randolph/Melo/Aldridge would score some points.

[eeeeeebro]

Tim duncan is someone that will retire in the next 3 -4 years Oden is someone who will retire in 10 - 15 years

3 - 4 < 10 - 15 its about how long you want spurs to be a competitor in the NBA with a dominant big man.

[Collie]

Few GM's would risk #1 picks, especially ones who have Oden potential. Just like Cleveland would not have traded LBJ for Jobe in '03 or Duncan for Hakeem in '97... they would like to take the risk IMO.

[Y2Gezee]

Best you can hope for is Melo because Wade and LeBron won't be offered. No way in hell.

I don't know if I would trade Oden for Melo, but a frontline of Randolph/Melo/Aldridge would score some points.


Trust me. None of them would be offered.

It was a hypothetical question for if you're on the Portland side.

[RoseCity07]

Oden had better numbers than Shaq and Hakeem in college. That was with one hand.

Yao Ming plays better defense around the basket than Duncan. Ben Wallace is a better shot blocker than Duncan. Duncan is probably the best on offense for a center, but not defense.

[eeeeeebro]

did you see Lebron try to dunk on duncan. he not only got denied he also got a change of heart =)

[RoseCity07]

did you see Lebron try to dunk on duncan. he not only got denied he also got a change of heart =)

1. Lebron already has dunked on Duncan.

2. I saw Kobe dunk on Duncan the last time the Lakers player the Spurs, he did it twice.

3. Dwight Howard dunked on Tim Duncan for a game winner. Duncan got owned.


Duncan has weak D.

[Rojogaqu11]

Yes I would trade for Duncan, because the Spurs get the pick and probably fillers, so u have a lot of players to trade and make offers to other teams. With the amount of talent the Spurs have, they can get good players to complement Oden in Pop's system. The Spurs get young, they could trade Ginobili and Elson when their value is high, for some up and coming swings and bigs, keep Parker and in 2-3 years the Spurs are contenders again. The other good teams like Dallas, Phoenix, Rockets slow down. Teams like Jazz, Sonics, Golden State, Denver become contenders but the Spurs also continue their winning ways and don't fall like the other contenders of the past.

Blazers also get to have some players that can make an impact now, possibly win a championship in the next 2-3 years. They could draw free agents to play alongside Tim Duncan, and if the Blazers have a line up of Jack, Roy, Aldridge, Randolph and Duncan, they become instant contenders, and the young guys get the playoff experience that will make them strong for the future, with Duncan taking Aldridge under his wing.
There's many possibilities.

[jerky10]

This is insane. TD for Oden? Tim is in the top 3 players in the NBA. Why would you trade TD for an unproven prospect? I even have a feeling that Oden will be just another Andrew Bynum.

[J-Roc]

Oden is the future...
Right now Duncan is better but he will retire in a couple of years...

[jerky10]

Oden is the future...
Right now Duncan is better but he will retire in a couple of years...

TD will have 5 more solid season.

[Y2Gezee]

TD will have 5 more solid season.


And maybe 2-3 more after that where he can be a great 3rd option for a title team, still rebound well, and patrol the paint.

[Comedy Central]

Imo an argument can be made for not trading someone for Greg Oden, but not because Oden is unproven. I mean of course we don't know how good he really is as a nba player cause he hasn't played a game yet, but can't you see what he is going to be (not potentially, but what he is destined to be)? Using this unproven argument is like saying "it's not sensible to trade Clyde Drexler for a rookie Shaq because he hasn't played a game yet whereas Clyde is on top of his game" the year Shaq was drafted. Yes, he hasn't played a game but everyone with a brain could see what impact he could bring to the game the second he was put on the court; what he could become and what he already was, same cases could be made for Duncan, Lebron and Greg Oden.

One might have a case for not trading someone for Oden, but this "unproven" theory only refects their inability to see great talents, even when the whole basketball world knows it is someone you only get once in 15 years.

[vinsane01]

yey first post!

trading an experienced and tested player for a new guy whose only promise is potential is totally idiotic. Plus Duncan is considered to be the best power forward the game has ever seen! no way the spurs will do this, or even cross their minds. Even when duncan will be 35 and averages 15 and 5.. :D

[Y2Gezee]

Quite frankly if I'm the SPURS I'd do it.

For stupid reasons, but I'd do it. First of all they're going to have 4 rings after this season. I'd be happy with that for the next few years, plus with Oden they'd atleast be a playoff team. Maybe, if Oden is for real then they compete again in 3-5 years. That way they can certainly add some time to their time of being a top franchise.

But again that's just me saying I'd be satisfied with the 4 rings the Spurs are about to have. Im sure there are more fans and organizations that wouldn't be. And that may also have something to do with the fact that I haven't backed a team that has won a ring since the Bulls.

[jerky10]

Oden's unproven potential for Duncan's dominance?

:no:

If I were the Spurs I'd only accept that proposal if the package includes ZBo, Oden, huge expiring contract, and 2 future 1st rnd picks (lottery protected)

[RoseCity07]

Oden's unproven potential for Duncan's dominance?

:no:

If I were the Spurs I'd only accept that proposal if the package includes ZBo, Oden, huge expiring contract, and 2 future 1st rnd picks (lottery protected)


Is that a joke? I'm certain the Blazers wouldn't take Duncan for their first round pick this year, let alone the rest of what you wrote. No Zach, no picks for SA, if we decided to let SA get Oden. They don't have the value that Blazers have with Oden. Now go rob a bank with a knife.

[jerky10]

Is that a joke? I'm certain the Blazers wouldn't take Duncan for their first round pick this year, let alone the rest of what you wrote. No Zach, no picks for SA, if we decided to let SA get Oden. They don't have the value that Blazers have with Oden. Now go rob a bank with a knife.

Read the thread title. It asked "Would you trade Greg Oden for Tim Duncan?"
Just answer the question by yourself instead of arguing with my point.

[Rameek]

Yes I know what I am getting with Duncan. He hasnt had major injuries and stays consistent. If he plays 4 or more years I'd do it!:cheers:

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Tim duncan is someone that will retire in the next 3 -4 years Oden is someone who will retire in 10 - 15 years

3 - 4 < 10 - 15 its about how long you want spurs to be a competitor in the NBA with a dominant big man.

Magic's 3-4 years with Shaq >>> The 10 years since.

Miami's 3-4 years with Shaq>>> The rest of their history.

It would be a tough trade to make but Duncan is the one guy in the NBA that gives you a legit shot at a title. I think that makes you do the deal. You never know what will happen in the future so take the now while you can.

I mean there have been much better prospects than Oden that have failed miserably or not won their team a title. Guys like Ewing, Bias and Coleman all come to mind. Hell Mutombo never won his team a title and if Oden is that good in 4 years time then Portland should be very happy.

Oden is an excellent prospect. Duncan is a great player.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

If I'm the Spurs...yes, in a heartbeat.
If I'm Portland...no way.

Understand, folks, that Oden is a franchise player for the next 12 years or more (yes, even though he hasn't played a game, it easy enuf to tell he will become dominant). Duncan is an all-star for another, what, 2 years? maybe 3?

[Comedy Central]

I mean there have been much better prospects than Oden that have failed miserably or not won their team a title. Guys like Ewing, Bias and Coleman all come to mind. .

Are you sure about that?
You can say "there have been much better prospects than Oden" then give some names like Hakeem, Shaq, D-Rob (hell even those guys are not much better prospects imo); but please don't list names like Coleman, and Bias? He wasn't a 7 foot center and he died before entering the nba, Ewing has a case, but he wasn't a better prospect than Oden.


Hell Mutombo never won his team a title and if Oden is that good in 4 years time then Portland should be very happy.

imo Oden will be at least as good as prime Mutombo in 2 years and better thereafter.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Are you sure about that?
You can say "there have been much better prospects than Oden" then give some names like Hakeem, Shaq, D-Rob (hell even those guys are not much better prospects imo); but please don't list names like Coleman, and Bias? He wasn't a 7 foot center and he died before entering the nba, Ewing has a case, but he wasn't a better prospect than Oden.

Oden is being overhyped. He is a top prospect but what has he got over someone like Okafor other than age? Okafor was better on offense and defense in college. Don't get me wrong, Oden is a better prospect but it's not that big a margin. Ewing was easily a better prospect, Ewing may be the most hyped player other than LeBron ever. Coleman was at least as good a prospect as Oden. Coleman is one of the best offensive players ever as a prospect. He didnt have the hype of Oden, but as a prospect he was better.


imo Oden will be at least as good as prime Mutombo in 2 years and better thereafter.

That's a massive call there. Mutombo in his prime was a far better defender than Oden is right now. He was also much better offensively. Oden should be great but he wont be that good in 2 years. Prime Mutombo would be the best center in the league right now. I still think that Mutombo is the best comparison right now. Oden has a lot of work to do offensively, with the way that Stern is hunting defense and trying to eliminate it you have to be careful building around a guy who right now isnt going to be a good player offensively. I mean offensively Oden is worse than guys like Okafor, Kaman and Bogut were and none of them are doing very well offensively in the league.

Tim Duncan and LeBron are the two players I would trade Oden for. I wouldn't need to think about it. LeBron is the manufactured marketing toy, he is cash and he can play a bit. Duncan is the best player in the league by a vast distance and is going to give his team a shot at the title for another 3 or so years you have to believe.

Oden needs to improve a long way if he is going to be that guy. Guys like Mourning, Robinson, Ewing, Daugherty, Coleman and Mutombo who were better players coming out of college couldn't get their teams titles. Admittably the league has fallen a long way since those guys were around and a couple failed for reasons other than a lack of talent, but has the league fallen enough that Oden is going to give you a shot at the title? Especially when you cant even be certain he will be there in 5 years time?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Oden is being overhyped. He is a top prospect but what has he got over someone like Okafor other than age?

remember you said that 2 years from now when he becomes a perennial all-star.

over Okafor? Well, he's bigger, taller and just as smart and hard working. This guy is a taller, stronger Dwight Howard. He is a legit Center...not just a PF playing center (Okafor).

[Fudge]

Is that a joke? I'm certain the Blazers wouldn't take Duncan for their first round pick this year, let alone the rest of what you wrote. No Zach, no picks for SA, if we decided to let SA get Oden. They don't have the value that Blazers have with Oden. Now go rob a bank with a knife.
They obviously wouldn't trade the pick alone for Duncan, buddy.

[wally_world]

depends on what you get along with Duncan and what you add along because Oden as a rookie won't match TD's salary... TD is older but if they throw in Parker/Ginobili it might be a good take...

[WoGiTaLiA1]

remember you said that 2 years from now when he becomes a perennial all-star.

I dont doubt he will be. If Okafor could stay healthy though he would have a legit shot also. Being a center is going to basically guarentee him a spot. He will be a very good player, at least I think he will, but right now he raw player with potential and personally I'll trade that for a shot at the next 3 titles. Perhaps I feel that way because of what happened with Shaq. I mean the Magic got the best prospect of my lifetime and have nothing to show for it, I imagine we probably could have a title if we had traded him for Jordan or Hakeem though. Shaq was a far better prospect than Oden. It would be a huge trade and I'm not sure I'd make it if Im Portland because they aren't built to win right now but in the hypothetical of I'm starting a team with one of them right now, I would take Duncan if I could because you just dont know what will happen in 5 years time. Oden could be playing in LA or Orlando by then.

[Da KO King]

remember you said that 2 years from now when he becomes a perennial all-star.

over Okafor? Well, he's bigger, taller and just as smart and hard working. This guy is a taller, stronger Dwight Howard. He is a legit Center...not just a PF playing center (Okafor).
:roll:

If Sports Illustrated is credited with creating the hype on Tony Mandarich, and Chad Ford is credited with jump starting the Darko Milicic hype machine, who will get credit for Oden-mania?

Okafor is 6'11" 255 lbs and Howard is 6'11" 260 lbs. Oden is 7' 257 lbs so he hardly qualifies as bigger and stronger. "Just as smart and hard working" is surely up for debate considering you know little to nothing about Greg Oden's work ethic.

I do know Emeka Okafor has a long history showing his work ethic. Enrolled in school early at UConn, graduated in 3 years, played through a sprained ankle when he got the chance to play for Team USA in Greece, and has worked with Hakeem Olajuwon during the off-season on his game.

What exactly can you point to with Oden??? While you are at it, explain what makes Oden a legit C and Okafor a PF masquerading as one?

[bekalc]

Tim Duncan is a great defender. According to the Phoenix Suns coach, it's ridiculous that Tim wasn't named defensive player of the year. I don't know what people are saying about that.

As for San Antonio will I trade Tim for Oden? No. Right now, San Antonio has the opportunity to win several more championships. They have a great team around them, and they can win several more. They also have a young player in Parker, who they can build around.

Oden is still proven and needs development, especially in his offensive game. Getting him now, won't guarantee a championship.

As for Portland, no I don't trade for duncan. You only make that kind of trade if you are one block from a championship, and Portland is not there. Portland is better of building around Oden, and growing with Oden.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Oden should be a good player but he is overhyped. He isnt this once in a lifetime talent or I havent seen it. He should be a very good player but right now he is one of the worst players to get picked first. He is being hyped because he is the first decent big man prospect since Duncan. I think he will do fine, but he is being overrated a lot. He is rawer than Okafor was, has the same problems and strengths.

The real question though is that it is Tim Duncan we are discussing in the trade. If you can get the best player in the NBA for a guy with potential you should do it every time. Oden could just as easily be Darko as he will be Robinson. He is far more likely to be Okafor level though, Mutombo would be a good result. I mean if you consider that, is he really a guy you would pass on Duncan for. This guy isn't a Shaq, Robinson, Ewing or Hakeem type where you can be almost certain he will dominate. This is Darko, Dwight, Okafor, KG or Bogut style where you hope for the best but aren't certain of anything.

I personally have seen at least 6 better prospects since I have been watching basketball and a couple of other guys that are on the at least the same level and I've seen enough of a couple of others that were before my time to know they also were better prospects(Coleman, Ewing, Hakeem and Daugherty). Guys like LJ, Mutombo and Payton were certainly comparable as well.

[J-Roc]

TD will have 5 more solid season.

Oden 10 to 15 ....

[Carbine]

:oldlol:

This thread has brought up some of the most ignorant people I have read in awhile.

All of a sudden because Duncan got jammed on a few times his defense is weak? The guy said he was 20, must have been one of those junior high drop-outs or else he would have a bit more logical thinking.

Zo gets dunked on all the time, doesn't make him any less of a defensive player.

[WADE MONEY]

:roll: rosecity exposing himself!!!!!!

"Duncan is a weak defender"

WHAT A SHMUCK!!!!!

:roll:

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Oden 10 to 15 ...

Yeah but are they all in Portland and more so, are they just solid, good or are they great. Because Duncan has probably 3 more of great and MVP and a couple more after that where he isnt what he was but still merits a double and impacts the game. Will Oden ever do that is a realistic question?

[EricForman]

No, more chances to win with Oden then Duncan. Plus you never know how good Oden will become. Duncan gets dunked on all the time by players, lets see if this happens to Oden.


And what does that have to do with whether or not Duncan is worthy of building a team around?

[EricForman]

This question is about the same as asking

"Would you trade Kareem Abdul Jabbar for Patrick Ewing?" in 1985.

or

[WoGiTaLiA1]

"Would you trade Kareem Abdul Jabbar for Patrick Ewing?" in 1985.

Nah its not. Oden isnt half the player coming out that Ewing was. Ewing was developed, you knew what you were getting. Oden is a big time risk/reward guy. Potential is there. Oden is not that type of prospect, he has the potential to be as good a player, but right now you dont trade the best player in the league for potential, you need a good bet of a sure thing.

[GOBB]

Great shot blockers get yammed on. Thats a fact.

If I wanna win now...win titles within a 5yr window I'll take Duncan.
If I wanna build a team and win in the future? I'll take Oden.

It all depends on the makeup and direction of the team.

Sixers could use Duncan. Knicks could use Oden. :oldlol:


Oden has atleast a 15yr shelf life barring major injuries whereas Duncan shelf life (figuring his impact) is at 5yrs. He's 31 and by age 36 (and beyond) I dont see Tim Duncan having the same impact as he does today. Oden is 19yrs old and has 17yrs before he reaches 36.

[eeeeeebro]

Magic's 3-4 years with Shaq >>> The 10 years since.

Miami's 3-4 years with Shaq>>> The rest of their history.

It would be a tough trade to make but Duncan is the one guy in the NBA that gives you a legit shot at a title. I think that makes you do the deal. You never know what will happen in the future so take the now while you can.

I mean there have been much better prospects than Oden that have failed miserably or not won their team a title. Guys like Ewing, Bias and Coleman all come to mind. Hell Mutombo never won his team a title and if Oden is that good in 4 years time then Portland should be very happy.

Oden is an excellent prospect. Duncan is a great player.
they did not replace shaq with a dominant big man for the rest of the 10 years. AND we are talking about replacing an OLD shaq not a young shaq. its called getting maximum value out of a player to save the competivness of a team for years to come

[wTFaMonkey]

ill keep duncan on my squad. :D

[fatboy11]

I am pleased with the thread I created. This is just what I wanted.

WoGiTaLiA1 is officially the MVP of the thread. On the other side, RoseCity is the LVP with his "Duncan is weak on D because he gets dunked on" logic.

But, I don't think anyone can put it into better terms than WoGiTaLiA1.

[GOBB]

I am pleased with the thread I created. This is just what I wanted.

WoGiTaLiA1 is officially the MVP of the thread. On the other side, RoseCity is the LVP with his "Duncan is weak on D because he gets dunked on" logic.

But, I don't think anyone can put it into better terms than WoGiTaLiA1.

I sense a Duncan bias.

Same question was thrown out there when Lebron James was drafted. Yet somehow i doubt anyone would trade Bron for any established player in the NBA. Duncan included. But whatever.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I think it depends on the situation. If I was running a team like the Pistons who realistically only have a chance at winning maybe next season and the season after that and I had the first pick that turned into Greg Oden then yes I would trade for Tim Duncan. If I was a team that was on the process of rebuilding then no way would I trade for Tim Duncan.

[fatboy11]

I sense a Duncan bias.

Same question was thrown out there when Lebron James was drafted. Yet somehow i doubt anyone would trade Bron for any established player in the NBA. Duncan included. But whatever.I'd take LeBron over Oden.

And I don't know if I would trade Oden for Duncan. Duncan produces rings, but what about the team surrounding him? Coaching? Those elements have to be there, IMO.

There is no Duncan bias other than the fact that I don't see Oden ever being as good as Duncan. But that isn't the argument. I like Oden as a player. I was for OSU all the way in the tourney. Picked them in my bracket. Everyone else down here was all about UNC or Florida. I think he's a monster, but I'm questioning his fire.

[Da KO King]

I think a point that many aren't considering is, would Tim Duncan be willing to play the teacher role? I know he was kind of a douche toward Tony Parker during Parker's first year so I don't know.

However, if Duncan would be a willing teacher you have to also remember that the Blazer's already have LaMarcus Aldridge. Having him learn from Duncan might be worth parting with Oden. :confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

I'd take LeBron over Oden.

And I don't know if I would trade Oden for Duncan. Duncan produces rings, but what about the team surrounding him? Coaching? Those elements have to be there, IMO.

There is no Duncan bias other than the fact that I don't see Oden ever being as good as Duncan. But that isn't the argument. I like Oden as a player. I was for OSU all the way in the tourney. Picked them in my bracket. Everyone else down here was all about UNC or Florida. I think he's a monster, but I'm questioning his fire.

Questioning his fire on what basis? Cant judge a book by its cover because the player named Duncan looks like you could bytch slap him with a roll of pennies and he wouldnt be moved. Unless the ref didnt blow a whistle of course.

[fatboy11]

Questioning his fire on what basis? Cant judge a book by its cover because the player named Duncan looks like you could bytch slap him with a roll of pennies and he wouldnt be moved. Unless the ref didnt blow a whistle of course.That's just it. That's all I have against Oden. He seems like he is too nice. Just like Duncan and just like Yao.

But Duncan had the complete skill set to make up for it.

[boozehound]

depends on my team. IF i want to win now (say Im the pistons or PHX,etc - a team on the cusp) then I absolutely do. If Im the bobcats or portland, probably not.

[GOBB]

That's just it. That's all I have against Oden. He seems like he is too nice. Just like Duncan and just like Yao.

But Duncan had the complete skill set to make up for it.

Yeah but Duncan skills were also developed. He wasnt Tim Duncan at age 19 either. But he does seem too nice personality wise. Reminds me of Drob. But watching him actually perform at OSU I didnt get that sense. Eh, hopefully his personality isnt something that conflicts his game/attitude on the court.

[fatboy11]

Yeah but Duncan skills were also developed. He wasnt Tim Duncan at age 19 either. But he does seem too nice personality wise. Reminds me of Drob. But watching him actually perform at OSU I didnt get that sense. Eh, hopefully his personality isnt something that conflicts his game/attitude on the court.Well, I think Oden will be more on the Alonzo Mourning path as a player. Should be interesting to see.

I just can't put Oden in that "rarefied air" category. Since '85, only four players go in that category: Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, and James. Could Oden be the fifth? Maybe. I just don't see it. I still think he has a HOF career and maybe a ring or two ahead of him.

[GOBB]

Well, I think Oden will be more on the Alonzo Mourning path as a player. Should be interesting to see.

I just can't put Oden in that "rarefied air" category. Since '85, only four players go in that category: Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, and James. Could Oden be the fifth? Maybe. I just don't see it. I still think he has a HOF career and maybe a ring or two ahead of him.

I agree.

[West-Side]

I don't think Oden will have the career Duncan has had, but I wouldn't trade him for TD either mainly because I'd rather have 15 good years from my center then 4-5 GREAT years. Especially since the team that trades for TD will be young and won't have the experience to win a title right away anyways, with Oden they have time to grow and learn.

[West-Side]

I just can't put Oden in that "rarefied air" category. Since '85, only four players go in that category: Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, and James.

How the hell are you going to name LeBron and not mention players like Hakeem, Kobe or even Pippen...you give LeBron way too much credit, he is NOT better then Hakeem or Kobe, and might never be as good as them...like I said before, how the hell has LeBron improved over last season? To me he declined slightly, the only real hype I heard of him this season is the fact he managed to bring his team to the finals in a weak ass eastern conference.

I think he's already at his climax, if not...he ain't far from it, he isn't a great defender...he will never make a 1st team All-Defense...I just find it amusing you would bring his name and not mention someone like Hakeem or Kobe. One is arguably the most talented big man in history of this game and the other is a player who can play both sides of the court and is ARGUABLY the greatest scorer to ever play this game.

[fatboy11]

How the hell are you going to name LeBron and not mention players like Hakeem, Kobe or even Pippen...you give LeBron way too much credit, he is NOT better then Hakeem or Kobe, and might never be as good as them...like I said before, how the hell has LeBron improved over last season? To me he declined slightly, the only real hype I heard of him this season is the fact he managed to bring his team to the finals in a weak ass eastern conference.

I think he's already at his climax, if not...he ain't far from it, he isn't a great defender...he will never make a 1st team All-Defense...I just find it amusing you would bring his name and not mention someone like Hakeem or Kobe. One is arguably the most talented big man in history of this game and the other is a player who can play both sides of the court and is ARGUABLY the greatest scorer to ever play this game.Hakeem only lead his team to a championship twice.........when Jordan was retired. Keep in mind, this is a Rockets fan speaking.

Pippen? What did he do without Jordan?

Kobe? What has he done without Shaq?

"Rarefied air" is being unstoppable. Duncan has 4 rings. Shaq has 4 rings. Jordan has 6 rings (maybe could have had a couple more). I am being a bit presumptuous by putting LeBron in that so fast, but I'd say he has a claim seeing as how he's only 22 and has already led his team to the NBA Finals. You can get me on the LeBron, but that doesn't mean that Hakeem, Kobe, or Pippen belong in the same category as Jordan, O'Neal, and Duncan.

*EDIT

[Da KO King]

I question Oden's "fire" also.

Dude is meek. He's very Yao Ming-ish to me. I would not be shocked if in three years I'm reading an article detailing Oden having a training session with Hakeem Olajuwon were the theme of the entire workout is "You should be dominating".

He did not dominate a single game in college. Not one. Before you even bring up the Championship game go watch it again. You'll see that while it far and away the best game of Oden's life he didn't dominante.

Oden's doesn't have the fire needed to be an all timer to me. He looks on the verge of becoming a shrinking violet when players similar to him in build/athleticism/skill go aggressively at him.

I do think he'll be good but I really do not see him becoming the world beater everyone is expecting. Alonzo Mourning with better size at the very best.

[Comedy Central]

Alonzo Mourning with better size.

I think that would be dominant enough.

Zo was a multiple DPOY winner, all star and MVP candidate, 3 inches on top of that would make him at least as good as Duncan.

[fatboy11]

I think that would be dominant enough.

Zo was a multiple DPOY winner, all star and MVP candidate, 3 inches on top of that would make him at least as good as Duncan.You can be serious?

Can you?

[J-Roc]

Yeah but are they all in Portland and more so, are they just solid, good or are they great. Because Duncan has probably 3 more of great and MVP and a couple more after that where he isnt what he was but still merits a double and impacts the game. Will Oden ever do that is a realistic question?

We'll see... Not in his first years but I think he can do the same as Duncan...

[Comedy Central]

You can be serious?

Can you?

What do you mean?

[fatboy11]

What do you mean?You know what I mean.

[Da KO King]

Don't get me wrong. A prime 'Zo would kill people right now.

However, a prime 'Zo is not a guy that would get all this media attention and praise.

[Comedy Central]

You know what I mean.

No I don't so please explain what you mean.

[fatboy11]

No I don't so please explain what you mean.Go back and look at the statement you made about Zo, 3 inches taller, and being as good as Duncan.

[RidonKs]

Like GoBB said, it just depends on the team. There's no way in hell the Mavs take Oden over Duncan. Just won't happen. On the other hand, the Hawks take Oden for sure. Without a doubt in their mind (ok, a small doubt).

It comes down to rebuilding, or contending. The Nets take Duncan, the Sixers take Oden, the Lakers take Duncan, the Hornets take Oden. It's quite simple really.

Still, the Blazers are very interesting. Zach Randolph just becomes SO much more impressive with a Tim Duncan playing on the block on offense and defending the middle. Jack looks better, Roy has open lanes, Webster and that SF sho started a lot of the year but who's name I always forget gets all kinds of open shots. He just improves the whole team. And while this team is young, they do have the talent to do extremely well over the next 3-4 years, while Duncan's still playing at the level he is now.

I think the Blazers do this, but the Spurs don't (obviously). At this point, Portland has enough talent that has actually developed from potential over the last while, that they would have a good enough team to contend with within the next year or so.

And no, you trade LeBron for absolutely no one.

[Comedy Central]

Go back and look at the statement you made about Zo, 3 inches taller, and being as good as Duncan.

What's wrong about that? He was a combination of skills and athleticism, had a perfectly balanced game: great on both sides of the floor, 20, 10 with 3+ almost 4 blocks per game. the only disadvantage of him imo is size, 6'9-6'10 is a bit short for a center, add 2- 3 inches on that he would be just as dominant as Duncan, if not better.

[fatboy11]

What's wrong about that? He was a combination of skills and athleticism, had a perfectly balanced game: great on both sides of the floor, 20, 10 with 3+ almost 4 blocks per game. the only disadvantage of him imo is size, 6'9-6'10 is a bit short for a center, add 2- 3 inches on that he would be just as dominant as Duncan, if not better.So you answered my question.

You were serious. :ohwell:

[West-Side]

"Rarefied air" is being unstoppable.

What bull, the fact you mentioned LeBron was a joke...you claimed Hakeem only won 2 championships?! That's TWO more then a player you named in your post, how is Kobe NOT unstoppable? Smarten up please. Kobe is easily the best one on one player today, has more respect out of his peers then any player ALIVE...can play both sides of the court, won 3 titles in his career...Jordan wouldn't have won 6 titles without Pippen. We can go back and forth, I'm just shocked at the fact you put Duncan on your list and claim he's some unstoppable force but left off Hakeem, who is clearly the better player.

I'm just puzzled at how much this board rides Duncan, to have the nerve to put him above the Dream...if Hakeem started his career the same time Duncan did, he would have those same 3 rings if NOT more...to me Hakeem was the better defensive player and offensive player then Duncan. And if Duncan started his career when there were dozen of HOF big man, Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Hakeem, Kemp...not to mention Jordan's Bulls, I doubt he would even have ONE ring.

To me Hakeem winning 2 rings in a much tougher era, is just as impressive as Duncan winning 3/4 rings without any real competition.

[eeeeeebro]

NnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnO

UFOs do exist i seen one last night

[fatboy11]

What bull, the fact you mentioned LeBron was a joke...you claimed Hakeem only won 2 championships?! That's TWO more then a player you named in your post, how is Kobe NOT unstoppable? Smarten up please. Kobe is easily the best one on one player today, has more respect out of his peers then any player ALIVE...can play both sides of the court, won 3 titles in his career...Jordan wouldn't have won 6 titles without Pippen. We can go back and forth, I'm just shocked at the fact you put Duncan on your list and claim he's some unstoppable force but left off Hakeem, who is clearly the better player.

I'm just puzzled at how much this board rides Duncan, to have the nerve to put him above the Dream...if Hakeem started his career the same time Duncan did, he would have those same 3 rings if NOT more...to me Hakeem was the better defensive player and offensive player then Duncan. And if Duncan started his career when there were dozen of HOF big man, Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Hakeem, Kemp...not to mention Jordan's Bulls, I doubt he would even have ONE ring.

To me Hakeem winning 2 rings in a much tougher era, is just as impressive as Duncan winning 3/4 rings without any real competition.Too many logical errors to even attempt.......

You think I'm some kind of Duncan, but you are clearly a Duncan detractor. I'm not going to play this game. I'll only say that most of Duncan's championship teams can't be ruled out for winning a championship in Jordan or Dream's era. They were/are that good.

I also think it is absolutely moronic to pull the "there was no competition" card.

[Comedy Central]

So you answered my question.

You were serious. :ohwell:

Yes, I was.

[fatboy11]

Yes, I was.I know.

Did you miss where I said that? :confusedshrug:

[West-Side]

Season Numbers

Tim Duncan: 21.8 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 3.2 APG, 2.4 BPG, 0.8 SPG .509 FG, .680 FT in 37.5 MPG

Hakeem Olajuwon: 21.8 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 2.5 APG, 3.09 SPG, 1.75 SPG, .512 FG, .712 FT in 35.7 MPG


Playoff Numbers

Tim Duncan: 23.9 PPG, 12.6 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2.8 BPG, 0.7 SPG, .509 FG in 40.2 MPG

Hakeem Olajuwon: 25.9 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.2 APG, 3.26 BPG, 1.69 SPG, .528 FG in 39.6 MPG

Accolades

The Dream: 1 MVP, 12 All-Star Appearances, 2 Time DPOY, 2 Finals MVP, 6 time All-NBA, 5 time All-Defense, 2 Championships.
Big Fundamental: 2 MVPs, 9 time All-Star, DPOY, 3 time Finals MVP, 9 time 1st-Team, 7 time All-Defense, 3 Championships.


Realistically, scratch off both of Duncan's MVPs, his DPOY, about 3-4 of his 1st team selections and all 3 of his rings...because I know if he played in the same era as Hakeem, his accolades would be severely decreased.

Not to mention those numbers are deflated for Hakeem because his final few years dropped his average significantly.

[fatboy11]

Oh.......you're one of those numbers guys.

No thanks. I quit arguing about numbers when I was 19 or so.

[RoseCity07]

Oh.......you're one of those numbers guys.

No thanks. I quit arguing about numbers when I was 19 or so.


Then your a retard.

[DAXX]

Then your a retard.
:oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

You're the retard for spelling your wrong. It's you're, genius.

[fatboy11]

Then your a retard.Coming from Mr. "Duncan is weak on D", that means absolutely nothing.

In fact, it's comical.

[Knoe Struh Damus]

Hakeem only lead his team to the Finals twice

Let us test your counting skills.

86 Finals: Celtics 4, Rockets 2
94 Finals: Rockets 4, Knicks 3
95 Finals: Rockets 4, Magic 0

How many Finals are there?

[West-Side]

WHAT? If you stopped looking at numbers when you were 19, that means you're old enough to know the IMPACT Hakeem had on the game of basketball, Hakeem had a greater impact on the defensive end then Duncan, and he would make Duncan's head spin with his offensive arsenal...are you seriously thinking that Duncan is better then Hakeem?

This is a message board clown, what else do you want me to tell you? Hakeem shot better from the field, he shot better from the line, he was a more dominant defender...Duncan is probably the better play maker, but that's about it.

All you have is the championships (3 to 2), I counter that with the lack of competition Duncan had during his era...your counter was "Ah that lame competition excuse, blah blah." Well people with half of brain would realize you get all those accolades and win all those championships by beating your competition, and if Duncan played in the 90's...he would not have won a lot of his awards simply because there were BETTER players in the league then him. And the teams were better then they are right now. Outside of the Lakers, Portland and Sacramento the last 6 years...and Detroit, there hardly was any REAL teams in this league...Lakers b*tch slapped Duncan for 3 years, you think he would stand a chance against Chicago, Seattle, Houston, Utah? I mean you honestly think he could win 3-4 titles by getting through Utah, Houston and then Chicago in the finals?

Winning 3 championships is a HUGE deal, and Duncan is an amazing player...but to put him in a group of elite players and not include Hakeem is a complete ****ing joke, and to top it off you included LEBRON JAMES, while not mentioning Hakeem OR Kobe, mind blowing.

[fatboy11]

Let us test your counting skills.

86 Finals: Celtics 4, Rockets 2
94 Finals: Rockets 4, Knicks 3
95 Finals: Rockets 4, Magic 0

How many Finals are there?Yeah, I know. I meant "to a championshp".

It's easy to forget about that series with the Celts being that I was only 3 years old when happened.

[fatboy11]

WHAT? If you stopped looking at numbers when you were 19, that means you're old enough to know the IMPACT Hakeem had on the game of basketball, Hakeem had a greater impact on the defensive end then Duncan, and he would make Duncan's head spin with his offensive arsenal...are you seriously thinking that Duncan is better then Hakeem?

This is a message board clown, what else do you want me to tell you? Hakeem shot better from the field, he shot better from the line, he was a more dominant defender...Duncan is probably the better play maker, but that's about it.

All you have is the championships (3 to 2), I counter that with the lack of competition Duncan had during his era...your counter was "Ah that lame competition excuse, blah blah." Well people with half of brain would realize you get all those accolades and win all those championships by beating your competition, and if Duncan played in the 90's...he would not have won a lot of his awards simply because there were BETTER players in the league then him. And the teams were better then they are right now. Outside of the Lakers, Portland and Sacramento the last 6 years...and Detroit, there hardly was any REAL teams in this league...Lakers b*tch slapped Duncan for 3 years, you think he would stand a chance against Chicago, Seattle, Houston, Utah? I mean you honestly think he could win 3-4 titles by getting through Utah, Houston and then Chicago in the finals?

Winning 3 championships is a HUGE deal, and Duncan is an amazing player...but to put him in a group of elite players and not include Hakeem is a complete ****ing joke, and to top it off you included LEBRON JAMES, while not mentioning Hakeem OR Kobe, mind blowing.Which is why no one is backing you up?

:confusedshrug:

And you also have a selective memory. You keep b!tching about my inclusion of LeBron James despite the fact that I already admitted that it was presumptuous on my part.

And you just sound stupid about the Kobe thing.

[Knoe Struh Damus]

It's also easy to forget when it doesn't help your argument. I know the foolish young minds of today love to assume, and assume that every team that wins a titles is automatically better than those that do not. Hakeem defeating Showtime and putting up a hell of a dogfight against Bird's Celtics is as impressive as Duncan feasting on mediocre teams.

[West-Side]

You're a complete dolt, why even bother with you?
Question, did anyone back you up?

If you think Duncan is better then Hakeem, you're either a moron like fatboy over here or 12 years old.

I'm done with this discussion.


It's also easy to forget when it doesn't help your argument. I know the foolish young minds of today love to assume, and assume that every team that wins a titles is automatically better than those that do not. Hakeem defeating Showtime and putting up a hell of a dogfight against Bird's Celtics is as impressive as Duncan feasting on mediocre teams.

Someone backed me up, 1-0 me?

[fatboy11]

It's also easy to forget when it doesn't help your argument. I know the foolish young minds of today love to assume, and assume that every team that wins a titles is automatically better than those that do not. Hakeem defeating Showtime and putting up a hell of a dogfight against Bird's Celtics is as impressive as Duncan feasting on mediocre teams.But I honestly did mean to put championship instead of Finals. In case you missed it, my whole point was about winning it all. Many have put up a "dogfight" in the Finals and come up short. But what happens after that? People forget when talking about winning championship because they didn't win.

Now, if you're calling me a liar, we will cease discussion. I honestly did slip up there and what I wrote was not my intention.

[fatboy11]

Question, did anyone back you up?

Yes, GoBB in post #70 of this thread.

I never said Duncan was better than Hakeem. You have quite obviously missed the point, young man. It's all about championships. You missed it horribly.

[West-Side]

But what happens after that? People forget when talking about winning championship because they didn't win.

Duncan could NOT beat an elite team ONCE to his 3 championships...he got smoked by LA every year in those dynasty years.

Hakeem had to face Boston, Show-Time Lakers, Bulls, Utah, Seattle...you know REAL competition, your arrogant ass is like a router, keeps telling us the same sh*t over and over again.

Smush Parker was the MAN on the streets, he was a legend on street courts, he beat everyone on there...does that make him better then someone like Tony Parker?

Point is, Hakeem played in a tougher era...won 2 titles, put up similar numbers...he might not have AS many accomplishments as Duncan but at least the ones he has were very TOUGH to achieve, unlike Duncan. I'd rather fight a pitbull and get some licks...then fight a pug and get more licks.

Hakeem > Duncan, if you actually watched Hakeem play back in the day, you'd know why Hakeem is better.

[West-Side]

It's all about championships. You missed it horribly.

You named Jordan, Duncan, LeBron and Shaq as the most "unstoppable" forces since 85'...what does that have to do with championships?

Especially since LeBron is yet to win ONE...just give up, you got exposed in this thread...and BTW, if you were 3 years old in 86', you shouldn't be calling me a kid, hence I'm older then you.

[fatboy11]

Duncan could NOT beat an elite team ONCE to his 3 championships...he got smoked by LA every year in those dynasty years.

Hakeem had to face Boston, Show-Time Lakers, Bulls, Utah, Seattle...you know REAL competition, your arrogant ass is like a router, keeps telling us the same sh*t over and over again.

Smush Parker was the MAN on the streets, he was a legend on street courts, he beat everyone on there...does that make him better then someone like Tony Parker?

Point is, Hakeem played in a tougher era...won 2 titles, put up similar numbers...he might not have AS many accomplishments as Duncan but at least the one he has were very TOUGH to achieve, unlike Duncan. I'd rather fight a pitbull and get some licks...then fight a pug and get more licks.

Hakeem > Duncan, if you actually watched Hakeem play back in the day, you'd know why Hakeem is better.Still missing the point.......

:oldlol:

This is funny.

Will someone explain to him what I meant by "rarefied air" when I mentioned Jordan, Shaq, and Duncan (omitting LeBron since I already admitted I was getting ahead of myself)?

[fatboy11]

You named Jordan, Duncan, LeBron and Shaq as the most "unstoppable" forces since 85'...what does that have to do with championships?

Especially since LeBron is yet to win ONE...just give up, you got exposed on this thread...and BTW, if you were 3 years old in 86', you shouldn't be calling me a kid, hence I'm older then you.Dumbass, read this.


I am being a bit presumptuous by putting LeBron in that so fast


And you also have a selective memory. You keep b!tching about my inclusion of LeBron James despite the fact that I already admitted that it was presumptuous on my part.


Will someone explain to him what I meant by "rarefied air" when I mentioned Jordan, Shaq, and Duncan (omitting LeBron since I already admitted I was getting ahead of myself)?

How many more times do you want me to admit that I shouldn't have included LeBron James?

Oh.....you want to keep using that as an argument against me so you won't make light of the fact that I have repeatedly said I shouldn't have included Mr. James.

[West-Side]

"Rarefied air" is being unstoppable. Duncan has 4 rings. Shaq has 4 rings. Jordan has 6 rings (maybe could have had a couple more). I am being a bit presumptuous by putting LeBron in that so fast, but I'd say he has a claim seeing as how he's only 22 and has already led his team to the NBA Finals. You can get me on the LeBron, but that doesn't mean that Hakeem, Kobe, or Pippen belong in the same category as Jordan, O'Neal, and Duncan.


Uhmm, like I said............and Hakeem does belong in the same category as DUNCAN...you should replace Hakeem with Duncan.

ou can get me on the LeBron, but that doesn't mean that Duncan, Kobe, or Pippen belong in the same category as Jordan, O'Neal, and Hakeem.

There I boosted your IQ a bit.

[West-Side]

I don't care how many times you edit your retarded posts, anyone that actually say something along the line of "Hakeem doesn't belong in the same category as Duncan" shouldn't be using the word "dumbass" in reference to anyone but themselves.

[fatboy11]

You named Jordan, Duncan, LeBron and Shaq as the most "unstoppable" forces since 85'...what does that have to do with championships?

Especially since LeBron is yet to win ONE...just give up, you got exposed in this thread...and BTW, if you were 3 years old in 86', you shouldn't be calling me a kid, hence I'm older then you.The only one exposed is you. Exposed for you lack of understanding for what I'm saying.

Since '85, what elite players was won more titles than Jordan, Shaq, and Duncan?

I included LeBron because I think he will be in that category when we look back in 10 years. But, ONCE AGAIN, I will say that I was ahead of myself in that claim.

[fatboy11]

I don't care how many times you edit your retarded posts, anyone that actually say something along the line of "Hakeem doesn't belong in the same category as Duncan" shouldn't be using the word "dumbass" in reference to anyone but themselves.I edited one post and, if you read the thread, it is clear that I admitted an error there, too.

And no, I'm not going to include Hakeem because he only won 2 (which is fantastic, but not "rarefied") and, IMO, maybe only because Jordan was retired (I think they would have had a shot against the Bulls, but not sure).

I'm not going to change what I think because you don't agree with it. Get over it.

[beau_boy04]

Serious question, guys.


No because you don't trade young for old specially when your whole squadron (Portland) is so young. Tim Duncan might be able to get you a title or two in Portland and thats it he will be declining. Plus Portland starting lineup don't have much playoff exposure which will hinder Duncan's effectiveness. They will rather take their chances with Oden. The only player Portland will trade Oden's right for is Lebron James. LB is already a superstar at 22 years of age and he happens to play the 3 which is the weakest position of Portland.

[Lebron23]

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1997_draft/scout/c.html


Name: Tim Duncan
College: Wake Forest
Class: Senior
Height: 6-10
Weight: 248
Born: April 25, 1976
Position: Center
Other Positions: Power Forward

Stats
G MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA REB PF AST TO BLK STL PTS
93-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 1 1 82 110 317 82 30 40 124 12 323
94-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 3 7 118 159 401 78 67 91 135 13 537
95-96 Wake Forest 32 1194 228 411 7 23 149 217 395 74 93 105 120 22 612
96-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 6 22 171 269 457 69 98 99 102 22 645
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 128 4496 790 1368 17 53 520 755 1570 303 288 335 481 69 2117


MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
93-94 Wake Forest 30.2 54.5 100.0 74.5 9.6 0.9 1.2 3.8 0.4 9.8
94-95 Wake Forest 36.5 59.1 42.9 74.2 12.5 2.1 2.8 4.2 0.4 16.8
95-96 Wake Forest 37.3 55.5 30.4 68.7 12.3 2.9 3.3 3.8 0.7 19.1
96-97 Wake Forest 36.7 60.8 27.3 63.6 14.7 3.2 3.2 3.3 0.7 20.8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 35.1 57.7 32.1 68.9 12.3 2.3 2.6 3.8 0.5 16.5


NBA.com Profile
Poop (Scout:Kevin Lachance)

Duncan is the best player available in the draft and a lock to be the
first overall pick. He has the ability to become a NBA superstar.

Scouts have mixed opinions on Duncan's NBA position. He may be a more
dominant player early on in his career at power forward but has the
tools to be a dominant center. His position will depend on the team
that selects him.

In terms of comparisions I have heard David Robinson and Brad Daughtery.

I feel Hakeem Olajuwon is a closer comparison because of his mobility
and size.

In terms of physical skills Duncan has great mobility. He is capable of
consistantly beating his man down the court. He has long arms and
excellent timing for blocking shots. His footwork on post moves is
constantly improving.

In terms of basketball skills, Duncan has the total package. Duncan can
score is a variety of ways. He can take his man down low with an
assortment of post moves. He uses the glass well on his turn around
jump shot. He can also step outside and hit the mid-range jumper.
Duncan's passing ability is incredible for a player of his size and
experience. He led Wake Forest in assists. Duncan handles the ball
better than most post players.

Duncan greatest attribute is his defense. He averaged double figures in
rebounds in his final three years of college. This past season he
averaged close to fifteen boards a game. Duncan can swat shots with the
best of them. He is the all-time blocked shots leader in the history of
the NCAA.

Despite his overall game he has a few things to work on. His biggest
need is adding strength and weight. He will need to adjust to the power
of the NBA. He needs to continue to develop is offensive game. One
concern is his low free throw percentage (64%). However, his was his
lowest total of his four years.

As NBA Scouting Director, Marty Blake says "He may be the most complete
player to enter the NBA in the last ten years".


More Poop (Scout: Philip Kasiecki)

Tim Duncan is not the most talented player in this draft. However,
he is the best player in it, and he will be a successful NBA player,
both because of his style of play. For Duncan, it is simple: he plays.
He plays hard every minute, with confidence and emotion, at both ends of
the floor, and he plays to win. He has a winning attitude that will
greatly help the team that drafts him, going beyond what he will do that
shows up in the box score.

Duncan is the type of player who can lift his team with his play,
as he can take over games at either end of the floor, and is the
consummate team player. He can dominate defensively, as he is an
excellent shot-blocker and rebounder. At the offensive end, he is
constantly adding to his game, as he has expanded his shooting range
with time. When double-teamed, he will pass the ball back out to an
open teammate; he involves his teammates as though he were a point
guard, as he realizes that he alone will not win ball games.

Duncan will be a franchise player because he makes his teammates
better, in addition to being a great individual talent. He averaged a
double-double in each of his last two seasons in college, in scoring and
rebounding.

If Tim Duncan is not the first pick in the draft, the GM doing the
selecting will be referred to the best psychologist within a fifty-mile
radius. This holds even if the team selecting first is set at center,
as Duncan can play power forward as well.


More Poop (Scout: mmaurer@bellatlantic.net)
Duncan is one of college's most dominating centers to play the game since
HAKEEM OLAJUWAN. Duncan makes all the right plays offensively which is
perhaps his only weakness is that it is raw but still devloping.
He is a HUGE defensive presence in the paint as a rebounder and a
shot-blocker. He isn't the kind of leader that some coaches would prefer.
But if you look at wake forest's record you'll see that he did just fine.
If he had desired to go into the past 2 drafts he would have been number
1 overall. But there is no douting that he is a huge talent that will
surely devolp into a fine superstar his averages
20.8 PPG, 14.7 RPG, AND 2.9 APG. This is the most complete player i've
sen in years


More Poop (Scout: dedelman@acpub.duke.edu)

Tim Duncan-- An extraordinary college ballplayer; if you haven't seen
him night in and night out you can't appreciate it. Needed badly to
stay the extra year to work on his offense, but now has excellent
footwork inside. Can nail the mid-range J. Good rebounder, both
athletic and technical; reasonably good shot-blocker. Man defense not
really tested in the ACC (no other centers of note). Starts as a 12/10
guy like Mutombo (fewer blocks) but his work ethic could make him into
an Olajuwon type. To my mind a very easy #1 pick, the only guaranteed
star and the most probable superstar in the draft.

Worst he could be: Otis Thorpe with a few assists thrown in.
Best he could be: Olajuwon.

[fatboy11]

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1997_draft/scout/c.html


Name: Tim Duncan
College: Wake Forest
Class: Senior
Height: 6-10
Weight: 248
Born: April 25, 1976
Position: Center
Other Positions: Power Forward

Stats
G MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA REB PF AST TO BLK STL PTS
93-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 1 1 82 110 317 82 30 40 124 12 323
94-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 3 7 118 159 401 78 67 91 135 13 537
95-96 Wake Forest 32 1194 228 411 7 23 149 217 395 74 93 105 120 22 612
96-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 6 22 171 269 457 69 98 99 102 22 645
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 128 4496 790 1368 17 53 520 755 1570 303 288 335 481 69 2117


MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
93-94 Wake Forest 30.2 54.5 100.0 74.5 9.6 0.9 1.2 3.8 0.4 9.8
94-95 Wake Forest 36.5 59.1 42.9 74.2 12.5 2.1 2.8 4.2 0.4 16.8
95-96 Wake Forest 37.3 55.5 30.4 68.7 12.3 2.9 3.3 3.8 0.7 19.1
96-97 Wake Forest 36.7 60.8 27.3 63.6 14.7 3.2 3.2 3.3 0.7 20.8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 35.1 57.7 32.1 68.9 12.3 2.3 2.6 3.8 0.5 16.5


NBA.com Profile
Poop (Scout:Kevin Lachance)

Duncan is the best player available in the draft and a lock to be the
first overall pick. He has the ability to become a NBA superstar.

Scouts have mixed opinions on Duncan's NBA position. He may be a more
dominant player early on in his career at power forward but has the
tools to be a dominant center. His position will depend on the team
that selects him.

In terms of comparisions I have heard David Robinson and Brad Daughtery.

I feel Hakeem Olajuwon is a closer comparison because of his mobility
and size.

In terms of physical skills Duncan has great mobility. He is capable of
consistantly beating his man down the court. He has long arms and
excellent timing for blocking shots. His footwork on post moves is
constantly improving.

In terms of basketball skills, Duncan has the total package. Duncan can
score is a variety of ways. He can take his man down low with an
assortment of post moves. He uses the glass well on his turn around
jump shot. He can also step outside and hit the mid-range jumper.
Duncan's passing ability is incredible for a player of his size and
experience. He led Wake Forest in assists. Duncan handles the ball
better than most post players.

Duncan greatest attribute is his defense. He averaged double figures in
rebounds in his final three years of college. This past season he
averaged close to fifteen boards a game. Duncan can swat shots with the
best of them. He is the all-time blocked shots leader in the history of
the NCAA.

Despite his overall game he has a few things to work on. His biggest
need is adding strength and weight. He will need to adjust to the power
of the NBA. He needs to continue to develop is offensive game. One
concern is his low free throw percentage (64%). However, his was his
lowest total of his four years.

As NBA Scouting Director, Marty Blake says "He may be the most complete
player to enter the NBA in the last ten years".


More Poop (Scout: Philip Kasiecki)

Tim Duncan is not the most talented player in this draft. However,
he is the best player in it, and he will be a successful NBA player,
both because of his style of play. For Duncan, it is simple: he plays.
He plays hard every minute, with confidence and emotion, at both ends of
the floor, and he plays to win. He has a winning attitude that will
greatly help the team that drafts him, going beyond what he will do that
shows up in the box score.

Duncan is the type of player who can lift his team with his play,
as he can take over games at either end of the floor, and is the
consummate team player. He can dominate defensively, as he is an
excellent shot-blocker and rebounder. At the offensive end, he is
constantly adding to his game, as he has expanded his shooting range
with time. When double-teamed, he will pass the ball back out to an
open teammate; he involves his teammates as though he were a point
guard, as he realizes that he alone will not win ball games.

Duncan will be a franchise player because he makes his teammates
better, in addition to being a great individual talent. He averaged a
double-double in each of his last two seasons in college, in scoring and
rebounding.

If Tim Duncan is not the first pick in the draft, the GM doing the
selecting will be referred to the best psychologist within a fifty-mile
radius. This holds even if the team selecting first is set at center,
as Duncan can play power forward as well.


More Poop (Scout: mmaurer@bellatlantic.net)
Duncan is one of college's most dominating centers to play the game since
HAKEEM OLAJUWAN. Duncan makes all the right plays offensively which is
perhaps his only weakness is that it is raw but still devloping.
He is a HUGE defensive presence in the paint as a rebounder and a
shot-blocker. He isn't the kind of leader that some coaches would prefer.
But if you look at wake forest's record you'll see that he did just fine.
If he had desired to go into the past 2 drafts he would have been number
1 overall. But there is no douting that he is a huge talent that will
surely devolp into a fine superstar his averages
20.8 PPG, 14.7 RPG, AND 2.9 APG. This is the most complete player i've
sen in years


More Poop (Scout: dedelman@acpub.duke.edu)

Tim Duncan-- An extraordinary college ballplayer; if you haven't seen
him night in and night out you can't appreciate it. Needed badly to
stay the extra year to work on his offense, but now has excellent
footwork inside. Can nail the mid-range J. Good rebounder, both
athletic and technical; reasonably good shot-blocker. Man defense not
really tested in the ACC (no other centers of note). Starts as a 12/10
guy like Mutombo (fewer blocks) but his work ethic could make him into
an Olajuwon type. To my mind a very easy #1 pick, the only guaranteed
star and the most probable superstar in the draft.

Worst he could be: Otis Thorpe with a few assists thrown in.
Best he could be: Olajuwon.
You are missing the point as well, my friend.

Comprehension: It's your friend.

[ZHAKIDD532]

I think in their primes, comparitively, Duncan will be the better player. But now, you can't trade a guy like Oden for someone who's 10 years older, no matter who he is...

If the Blazers had wanted to do it, I wonder if the Spurs would consider it...probably not...

[johndeeregreen]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.
And people wonder why I'm oft "angry" on this site.

[SsKSpurs21]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.

and dont kid yourself, Tim Duncan was a beast in college. He was named John Wooden best overall player, he averaged 20points and 14 rebounds. finished his college career as the leading shot blocker in NCAA history, and is one of only 10 players with more than 2,000 career points and 1,500 career rebounds. He was also the first player in NCAA history to reach 1,500 points, 1,000 rebounds, 400 blocked shots and 200 assists.

duncan sucks on defense? lol yea i guess being NBA all defense FIRST team your entire career means nothing.

[fatboy11]

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.

and dont kid yourself, Tim Duncan was a beast in college. He was named John Wooden best overall player, he averaged 20points and 14 rebounds. finished his college career as the leading shot blocker in NCAA history, and is one of only 10 players with more than 2,000 career points and 1,500 career rebounds. He was also the first player in NCAA history to reach 1,500 points, 1,000 rebounds, 400 blocked shots and 200 assists.

duncan sucks on defense? lol yea i guess being NBA all defense FIRST team your entire career means nothing.But.....but.....but...........he's been dunked on by Kobe!!!!!!!

[WoGiTaLiA1]

This thread lost the point somewhere in there.

Hakeem is a superior player to Duncan. That doesnt mean Duncan isn't the best player playing right now, it just means Hakeem was better but it is not some massive gap and statistically Duncan is superior.

It's actually funny when you look at it. Hakeem basically got everything he should have(maybe 1 more MVP but Robinson deserved it as well). Duncan has been massively robbed throughout his career but Hakeem is a better player.

You would have to consider the team trading for Duncan here though. Blazers should probably flip a coin, Seattle should trade for Duncan. Most of the rest of the lottery shouldn't do the deal because as good as Duncan is their teams arent really ready. It is funny this year though, the teams at the top of the lottery are not bad teams as far as talent goes. Talent wise Seattle are comparable to the Spurs outside of Duncan, possibly even better.

Oden is tough to gage. To me he is very raw and thus is a big risk if you are giving up Duncan for him.


they did not replace shaq with a dominant big man for the rest of the 10 years. AND we are talking about replacing an OLD shaq not a young shaq. its called getting maximum value out of a player to save the competivness of a team for years to come

That is kind of my point actually, only it is even more the case with Oden. Shaq actually made the Magic a contender from day 1 and a serious one from the 2nd season on but he wasnt there in 5 years time. Oden is most likely going to take 3 years before he is at the level of a rookie Shaq(if he ever gets there). I mean when you consider that it makes trading for Duncan a much more reasonable prospect. If you assume that Oden is 15 years and Duncan is 5 and that's that then Oden wins most times. If however you consider that Oden may only be on the team that drafts him for 5 years and then leave, well then you start thinking about the trade and it is a realistic possibility. Portland has had a very hard time with FA in recent times. My point is basically that if you trade for Duncan, you have him for 5 years and then you start again. If you draft Oden you might also only have him for 5 years and in my opinion he is only going to be giving you a title shot in year 5 of that, and that's with a positive outlook.

To me this situation is most comparable to the Brand for Chandler trade. Many people felt that Chandler was bigger and more athletic and would play comparable defense to Brand but would have to develop the offense. More than that, everyone thought he would leave LAC after his rookie contract and that getting Brand was a good risk. Oden is clearly a better prospect and Brand was younger than Duncan is(and not as good) but it is the same idea. Some teams would make the deal, some wouldn't.

Personally I'd make the move with probably 20 of the teams in the league. Teams like Atlanta, Charlotte, Philly and most importantly Portland shouldn't do the deal. Portland do need to make a move though, I'd move Randolph if I could but Aldridge has to be considered. One of them needs to be moved though for sure. You dont want a Jermaine O'Neal situation with Aldridge and Randolph isnt going to be a 6th man. I'd be talking to Indiana to see if they want to give Randolph a go and see if I can get Granger off them.

[RoseCity07]

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.



First of all we didn't tank all year long to get the number one pick. So regardless, even if Oden is a complete flop it's the best option out there. As the saying goes, "It's all gravy". We can't lose.

I have seen the great shooters like Kobe, TMac, Wade, Dirk, Allen. None of that can get you a championship with out a dominant center. If Durant played like a god and by a miracle became better than Jordan than it still wouldn't matter. Oden was the better option at the time and is overwhelmingly the better choice.

[RoseCity07]

Oden is most likely going to take 3 years before he is at the level of a rookie Shaq(if he ever gets there)


Uh....Oden had better numbers in college than Shaq and Hakeem and only had one hand to use most of the season. The guy was shooting about 60% free throws with his left hand. Snatching rebounds with his left arm. Blocking a game winning shot in root to the NCAA finals.

I don't think it's going to be 3 years. Brandon Roy looked like a seasoned pro all year long (even with a injured hand and bad heal). Hitting clutch 3's to send games into over time, crossing people over to get baskets in crunch time. No reason to think there is always going to be such a long rookie curve.

[AtTheDriveIn]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

15/10 > 27/15 :confusedshrug:

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Uh....Oden had better numbers in college than Shaq and Hakeem and only had one hand to use most of the season. The guy was shooting about 60% free throws with his left hand. Snatching rebounds with his left arm. Blocking a game winning shot in root to the NCAA finals.

Shaq and Hakeem also stayed 3 years though. Hakeem had Drexler denting his stats his first couple of seasons and also only started playing at the age Oden is now basically. But the main thing is that both stayed 2 years after putting up similar numbers to Oden. Thats the 3 year comment's basis. Oden should be solid next year, I expect he will put up comparable numbers to his college numbers. Thats pretty good. But it isnt game changing. In a couple of years he may very well be that good. I'm also not sure that the whole left hand thing is a good thing. Basically it means he has spent a year developing his off hand at the expense of his good hand. Obviously a good thing but it's not like his right hand is developed as it is.

Dont get me wrong about Oden. He is the best big man prospect since Duncan but if I feel strongly that if you can trade a project for a shot at the title for 5 years I think you do it if the rest of your team is good enough to do it.

I wouldn't trade Oden for Duncan for the Magic for example. Portland either. Seattle though I would give serious thought.

[Lebron23]

I think Tim Duncan will passed the Torch to Greg Oden 2-3 years from now, Oden would be the best Bigmen in the NBA in many more years to come. He is definitely the missing Puzzle that would fit the Portland Trailblazers as perennial championship contender in the near future.

[Lebron23]

Greg Oden needs a better Coach like Avery, I want the Portland Trailblazers to pick up Avery Johnson if the Dallas Mavericks would fired him this off season.

Avery wants a big men that can play defense and can post up play not some soft 9 yr. NBA Veteran.

I think it would work out very well for the future King of the West in many more years to come.


http://www.33smiley.com/smiley4/smileys/19.gif http://www.33smiley.com/smiley4/smileys/19.gif http://www.33smiley.com/smiley4/smileys/19.gif

[kumquat]

Dont get me wrong about Oden. He is the best big man prospect since Duncan but if I feel strongly that if you can trade a project for a shot at the title for 5 years I think you do it if the rest of your team is good enough to do it.

I wouldn't trade Oden for Duncan for the Magic for example. Portland either. Seattle though I would give serious thought.
The way Portland is structuring itself at the moment is from ground up building a new identity. I think this is kind of bigger than getting Duncan and instantly competing for a championship. It's going to be an organic progression upwards.

[Da KO King]

I like how I'm continually ignored when asking what people base the claim of "Oden will be the best big-man in the NBA" on.

[Lebron23]

That would be pathetic Greg Oden will owned Duncan 2-3 years from now and the Portland Trailblazers are future of the West so why would they gamble on signing an oldman who is better playing with a great coach and a system. Where in Oden you can realize that he might get the chance to break many NBA Records in the NBA especially the number of block shots.

[Lebron23]

Is Phil Jackson still available as future mentor of this team i think he can coach the Portland Trailblazers next season rather than coaching a future lottery team next year. A lottery team that has no chance to be a dominating team in the NBA forever unless 3 all star played for this team and 1 dominant Center of the future.

Jackson can finally wins his 10th championship ring to break the old record of 9 set by Red Auerbach and his Boston Celtics.

Jackson and Kobe will never win any nba championship their is no Shaq playing for their team, not even a 2nd round appearance in the post season in the last 3 years can save the Loser Angeles Lakers.

[timmyD]

No, more chances to win with Oden then Duncan. Plus you never know how good Oden will become. Duncan gets dunked on all the time by players, lets see if this happens to Oden.


wow... what a GREAT reason. yeah, i got a big ego cuzz im oden. i wont get dunked on. ill foul his ass! then ill ride the pine and watch my team lose. wheneve a guard goes into the air and a big defender goes up to try to block it its like a 95% chance itll be a foul

[timmyD]

I think Tim Duncan will passed the Torch to Greg Oden 2-3 years from now, Oden would be the best Bigmen in the NBA in many more years to come. He is definitely the missing Puzzle that would fit the Portland Trailblazers as perennial championship contender in the near future.


good call man. 2010 championsip will be portland and cleveland probably. itll be amazing to watch too

[poeticism707]

Duncan could NOT beat an elite team ONCE to his 3 championships...he got smoked by LA every year in those dynasty years.

Hakeem had to face Boston, Show-Time Lakers, Bulls, Utah, Seattle...you know REAL competition, your arrogant ass is like a router, keeps telling us the same sh*t over and over again.

Smush Parker was the MAN on the streets, he was a legend on street courts, he beat everyone on there...does that make him better then someone like Tony Parker?

Point is, Hakeem played in a tougher era...won 2 titles, put up similar numbers...he might not have AS many accomplishments as Duncan but at least the ones he has were very TOUGH to achieve, unlike Duncan. I'd rather fight a pitbull and get some licks...then fight a pug and get more licks.

Hakeem > Duncan, if you actually watched Hakeem play back in the day, you'd know why Hakeem is better.

Duncan got smoked by the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, did he? Tim Duncan never beat an elite team enroute to his titles? Well lets have a history lesson to relieve you of your useless emotional arguments. Duncan beat the Lakers twice entroute to 2 titles; the Lakers beat Duncan twice enroute to 2 titles. Head to head in the playoffs, the Lakers barely had the edge 3-2 (and it took a Derek Fisher 1.5 second jumper in only .4 seconds of game time) between 99-2004 (did not play in 2000;TD injured before playoffs and DNP). If TD gets his 4th title (up 3-0 in the finals) half will have come from the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. What more competition can there be? One from the New Bad Boys; Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace are among he ALL TIME great defensive big men duos, Chancey Billups having an out of body basketball experience, and Larry Brown's unparalleled X and Os. The fourth (if it happens) is from everyone else. What is this yapping about teams they play being so poor? You mean like the Nets the Spurs played in 2003 Finals? The same Nets the your beloved Lakers played the year prior in 2002? What about the Spurs playing the Knicks in 99 Finals? What about the Lakers playing the INDIANA PACERS in the 2000 Finals? Why so mum?
In conclusion, you are are worse than the absolute worst casual fan. You are a moron who actually thinks you possess a modicum of basketball knowledge. What's worse, you grade a team by you do not like by the strictest standard (Spurs), while giving a team you do like a pass every time on the same standard (Lakers). Hakeem's early playoff exits are "not his fault, of course!" Tim Duncan leading Hakeem hands down in every accolade and accomplishment (except DPOY, talk about TD being robbed), TD is just beating nursery children! Wrong. You cannot have it both ways. Since the Shaq-Kobe Lakers were so great, they have validated Tim Duncan and his Spurs.
In closing, please refrain from communicating with other sentient beings about NBA basketball in general. The less of the viral infected half knowledge of yours you pass on, the better. (On second thought, do not speak to non-sentient beings either about basketball.) (On third thought, just don't speak to anyone about anything. At all. Ever. Even a fool is thought wise if he learns to keep his damn fool mouth shut).

[poeticism707]

:pimp:

[mateo31]

Well, it depends if I wanted a title right now, I would take Timmy Duncan. If I wanted to build for the future I would take Greg Oden. :D

[Carbine]

To be fair the Spurs, relative to the talent throughout the league, has had a pretty tough road to all their championships.

I mean they yearly had teams like Sacremento, LAL, Dallas before they became a powerhouse, PHX that has potentially the most collection of talent in the league, not to mention the Pistons,... well you know. That's some real competition in todays game.

Now if the Spurs won their championships playing teams at the level of the ones the Cavs had to play (aside from the Pistons) then people would have a legit argument that Spurs played against inferior competiton.

That is not the case, though. Far from it.

Only posters who bring that argument up is the ones who dig for something to hate. If it's not one thing it's the other. They will always find something to bring up, legit or out of this world... it doesn't matter to them as long as they can b!tch about something.

[Da KO King]

How did this thread become about the competition the Spurs have faced over the years??? :confusedshrug:

[TDMVPDPOY]

Well, it depends if I wanted a title right now, I would take Timmy Duncan. If I wanted to build for the future I would take Greg Oden. :D

i think portland with tim duncan could win rings and compete for the next 5-6 years, depending on duncans body....

all he has to do is pass the torch to randolf and cover up his weak defensive ass and the blazers, duncan accepting the defensive role instead of the franchise player role when he was with the spurs.

oden on the spurs? i give him 2 years.....then evaluate.

[trig]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.

You are the first person ive heard saying duncan sucks on defense. Getting dunk on is common on players that actually try to dunk instead of running away from contact or the current trend, flopping. I can already imagine you flopping around when you play. maybe thats your idea of defense. And using your logic, mutombo, Zo, ewing etc all suck on defense because we they are getting dunked on.

[unbreakable]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan..

WOW. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[MannyO]

lol who still thinks Oden is better.

[catzhernandez]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.
Wow...

Even when we all thought Oden was going to be a sensation, I didn't think anyone ACTUALLY thought this.

A million times? :wtf:

[Kungfro]

I'd never come into the NBA Draft Forum normally, but with a title like that you have to check it out. :oldlol:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well now I wouldnt mind trading Greg Oden for Michael Olowokandi.

[ElBronco]

Does RoseCity07 possibly want to come back in this thread and apologize?

[HylianNightmare]

in a couple years when duncan is as old as mutombo and oden is dominating the league...:D
:oldlol:

[bedZeleiodivy]

So pass the question with you: spend time with games on the net? Why? http://www.jocuri-sportive.com - jocuri sport Would not it be nice to get out the juice?

[simcjt]

So pass the question with you: spend time with games on the net? Why? http://www.jocuri-sportive.com - jocuri sport Would not it be nice to get out the juice?
:oldlol: best bot bump ever

[EGarrett]

Duncan's chance of contributing over the next few years is pretty much 0. Oden's is non-zero.