Was Kareem Abdul Jabbar really that good?

[iamgine]

The guy was highly touted as the 2nd GOAT (perhaps now overtaken by Lebron but still).

Yet in the 'weak' '70s, he only managed to win 1 title. This is despite playing for 6 seasons with Oscar Robertson and another all star in Bob Dandridge so it's not like he was playing with bad teammates like MJ.

In his 10 prime seasons before Magic, his team:

Made Finals 2x Won 1x
Lost in Conference Finals 3x
Lost in Conference Semis 2x
Lost in 1st Rnd 1x
Missed playoff 2x

I'm not sure this is really a resume worthy of how high he's usually ranked.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well if you ignore his MVP awards and being the career scoring leader and basically being great for two decades and instead do your best to invent a list of negatives then sure he won't look that good.

[wally_world]

Always felt he was abit overrated due to his longevity, college resume, and hook shot

Still a top 10 player, but I personally don't have him in front of Russell/Wilt, and possibly Shaq/Hakeem.

[zizozain]

fighting Bruce Lee>

71 game winning streak with a 79-2 overall record

undisputed greatest high school player

undisputed greatest college player

arguably the greatest NBA player

He had the single most unstoppable (and probably most difficult) move in the history of the NBA. The skyhook.

FLAWLESS PLAYER.

very high baskeball IQ

ranks 1st in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, and 3rd in blocks. He also had 4 blocks titles

[chains5000]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense.

And he says that lots of times he didn't even run down court. And that he didn't really try... except during the playoffs.

[jlip]

According to the words of those whom played and coached against him, yes he was.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7971621&postcount=1

[k0kakw0rld]

He is a lock top 3 GOAT for LIFE. Only here on ISH you can read stupid thread like this one.

The man won everywhere he went, high school, (greatest college player ever) and won 6 championships in the NBA, 2 FMVPs (1 with 2 franchises) 6 MVPs (NBA RECORD) SHUT THE **** UP.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, he wasn't

[k0kakw0rld]

Nah, he wasn't
Certainly he was, to be able to dominate Wilt.

[SouBeachTalents]

Certainly he was, to be able to dominate Wilt.
I used to think he was, I even had him as the 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time, but OP's comprehensive analysis convinced me otherwise. Now? He's borderline top 25

[FKAri]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense.

And he says that lots of times he didn't even run down court. And that he didn't really try... except during the playoffs.
Listen kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since he was at UCLA. He's out there busting his buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

[k0kakw0rld]

I used to think he was, I even had him as the 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time, but OP's comprehensive analysis convinced me otherwise. Now? He's borderline top 25
You are out of your mind.

[Wally450]

That's like asking if LeBron's really 'that' good because he's lost 6 Finals.

[JohnnySic]

#5 after MJ, Russell, LeBron and Wilt. That's very good.

[sundog67]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense.

And he says that lots of times he didn't even run down court. And that he didn't really try... except during the playoffs.


Listen kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since he was at UCLA. He's out there busting his buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.


Thanks guys. :roll:

[iamgine]

Well if you ignore his MVP awards and being the career scoring leader and basically being great for two decades and instead do your best to invent a list of negatives then sure he won't look that good.
Yes we can all agree on his accolades and longevity but can we also agree that for someone ranked that high, his team performance in the '70s were quite lacking? Was there good reason for that?

[Hammertime]

Yes we can all agree on his accolades and longevity but can we also agree that for someone ranked that high, his team performance in the '70s were quite lacking? Was there good reason for that?

Ok, be honest and don't use google. How many of these players have you heard of?

https://s8.postimg.cc/nd2yc0bt1/image.png

[BigShotBob]

Yes we can all agree on his accolades and longevity but can we also agree that for someone ranked that high, his team performance in the '70s were quite lacking? Was there good reason for that?

His teammates were literally on crack.

[Uncle Drew]

You are out of your mind.
You are dumb as hell. :roll:

[Dro]

The guy was highly touted as the 2nd GOAT (perhaps now overtaken by Lebron but still).

Yet in the 'weak' '70s, he only managed to win 1 title. This is despite playing for 6 seasons with Oscar Robertson and another all star in Bob Dandridge so it's not like he was playing with bad teammates like MJ.

In his 10 prime seasons before Magic, his team:

Made Finals 2x Won 1x
Lost in Conference Finals 3x
Lost in Conference Semis 2x
Lost in 1st Rnd 1x
Missed playoff 2x

I'm not sure this is really a resume worthy of how high he's usually ranked.
Even with only the footage we have on youtube, just go watch a random full game from when he was on the Bucks. Yes he was that good. The guy couldn't be stopped and he also had decent midrange, he literally was unguardable. And you can't really double him without giving up something because he was so good passing out of double teams and he would just hold the ball up so high, waving it around like a baseball, easy to hit cutters or to do pass fakes.

[superduper]

You are out of your mind.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cockworld at it again

[kennethgriffen]

i'm glad kareem didn't face the same backlash for simply not having enough help when the players voted him MVP.... too bad the media couldn't see it the same way for Kobe in 2006 and 2007

[senelcoolidge]

Great great player. I would rank him behind Wilt as greatest center ever. If a guy is stuck in a bad or mediocre team it's not really his fault. Remember basketball is a team sport and in previous generations players were not so buddy buddy with each other..colluding or forming super teams was kinda unheard of.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Kareem did not win jack sh!t with the Lakers till Magic got there.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes we can all agree on his accolades and longevity but can we also agree that for someone ranked that high, his team performance in the '70s were quite lacking? Was there good reason for that?Did you know that a player can play great in a game that his team loses? It's 5-on-5, not 1-on-1.

[Gotterdammerung]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was the right combination of Chamberlain and Russell - a great scorer who sublimated his game just enough to win titles.

But he was never as dominant as Chamberlain, or as devoted to rebounding and defense as Russell, so you could say that despite having one of the greatest career in NBA history, he still left plenty to be desired.
:kobe:

[iamgine]

Ok, be honest and don't use google. How many of these players have you heard of?

About 5 of them. But it's not like other teams are full of stars.

[sammichoffate]

2nd GOAT

[Elosha]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense.

And he says that lots of times he didn't even run down court. And that he didn't really try... except during the playoffs.


Listen kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since he was at UCLA. He's out there busting his buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

Nice! I bet a lot of people here are too young to get the reference.:roll:

[colts19]

Airplane

[JellyBean]

Heck yeah!!

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Always felt he was abit overrated due to his longevity, college resume, and hook shot

Still a top 10 player, but I personally don't have him in front of Russell/Wilt, and possibly Shaq/Hakeem.
Why not ahead of Russell? He was horrible on offense.

[zizozain]

According to the words of those whom played and coached against him, yes he was.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7971621&postcount=1
:applause:

[NZStreetBaller]

The man owns one of the most difficult shots to block in history.

[Hey Yo]

Less than a week ago, NBA TV showed Kareem's NBA debut game against the Pistons. His skyhook looked to be still in the making. The only time I saw it (so far, not done with the game yet) was in the middle of the paint, no baseline hooks.

He contested/tried to block a lot of shots but looked gassed early in the game at times....having trouble getting back on D. A lot of run-n-gun offense by both teams.

[egokiller]

Yes he really was that good. Stop faulting people because they aren't MJ. No one can be MJ. :applause:

[Hey Yo]

Yes he really was that good. Stop faulting people because they aren't MJ. No one can be MJ. :applause:
Kareem was winning FMVP at age 37 against MUCH better competition, while MJ had already quit the league for a 2nd time years before that.

[Psileas]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was the right combination of Chamberlain and Russell - a great scorer who sublimated his game just enough to win titles.

But he was never as dominant as Chamberlain, or as devoted to rebounding and defense as Russell, so you could say that despite having one of the greatest career in NBA history, he still left plenty to be desired.
:kobe:

Correct. For me the question isn't whether Kareem was really that good but whether Wilt was really that "bad", because it makes zero sense what happens here, to routinely rank Kareem in the top 2 and Wilt outside top 5, when a prime Wilt dominated at least as much and didn't win less than a prime Kareem, despite facing the GOAT dynasty. People are too much into the "oooh, it's 6 rings vs 2 rings" bullshit, as if 80's Kareem >> 70's Kareem, because 5 >> 1.


Yes he really was that good. Stop faulting people because they aren't MJ. No one can be MJ.

Yeah, I mean, it would make all the sense in the world that a 7'2 center from the 70's would try to emulate a 6'6 SG and 16 years younger, so obviously Kareem tried, but failed. :facepalm

[PsychoBe]

I think he's the greatest, but my dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense.

And he says that lots of times he didn't even run down court. And that he didn't really try... except during the playoffs.


Listen kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since he was at UCLA. He's out there busting his buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Replay32]

I don't believe there can be an individual GOAT in a team sport, but if I had to choose an individual GOAT it would be Kareem. He won FMVP at age 38. Should of won it in 1980. I would suggest anybody who hasn't seen Game 6 of the 1987 NBA finals to go watch that game.

Yes he was that good.

:facepalm to this thread.

[iamgine]

I don't believe there can be an individual GOAT in a team sport, but if I had to choose an individual GOAT it would be Kareem. He won FMVP at age 38. Should of won it in 1980. I would suggest anybody who hasn't seen Game 6 of the 1987 NBA finals to go watch that game.

Yes he was that good.

:facepalm to this thread.
You're talking about 1980s with Magic in a great Lakers team though. Anyone can shine in that system, let alone a great player like Kareem.

Kareem's team seemed to severely underperformed in the 'weak' 70s, which brings question if he should be that high up the rank.

[BigShotBob]

You're talking about 1980s with Magic in a great Lakers team though. Anyone can shine in that system, let alone a great player like Kareem.

Kareem's team seemed to severely underperformed in the 'weak' 70s, which brings question if he should be that high up the rank.

His teammates were on crack.

And the NBA in the 70's was a dark, dark time for everyone. From Pistol Pete to Kareem, Walton, Wes Unseld, and etc. It was a bunch of stars and fringe stars playing with cracked out NBA players while the ABA shined with Dr. J.

Pre-merger the NBA was almost on its last legs. The merger literally saved the league.

Regardless, Kareem as an old-timer dominated Hakeem, Walton, and pretty much every other center.

To put it plainly - no big man post Kareem comes close to his level of dominance. Period. So if you discredit him, you are by proxy discrediting every other big man not named Russell or Wilt. Which is fine by me, because no other bigs belong in the discussion.

[iamgine]

His teammates were on crack.

And the NBA in the 70's was a dark, dark time for everyone. From Pistol Pete to Kareem, Walton, Wes Unseld, and etc. It was a bunch of stars and fringe stars playing with cracked out NBA players while the ABA shined with Dr. J.

Pre-merger the NBA was almost on its last legs. The merger literally saved the league.

Regardless, Kareem as an old-timer dominated Hakeem, Walton, and pretty much every other center.

To put it plainly - no big man post Kareem comes close to his level of dominance. Period. So if you discredit him, you are by proxy discrediting every other big man not named Russell or Wilt. Which is fine by me, because no other bigs belong in the discussion.
I'm not sure in what way Kareem dominated Hakeem. If you're talking about team, then yeah Lakers raped most other teams. Or was it one-two games instances? I can show Deron Williams owning Chris Paul in some games.

[BigShotBob]

I'm not sure in what way Kareem dominated Hakeem. If you're talking about team, then yeah Lakers raped most other teams. Or was it one-two games instances? I can show Deron Williams owning Chris Paul in some games.

First off, Deron Williams was at worst on CP3's level and at best above him before he suffered from injuries. So your point is moot.

Second, even though Houston beat the Lakers in the WCF in 86', Hakeem averaged 31 and Kareem averaged 27, however, Kareem was 39/40 years old that series and outplayed him in game one.

[iamgine]

First off, Deron Williams was at worst on CP3's level and at best above him before he suffered from injuries. So your point is moot.

Second, even though Houston beat the Lakers in the WCF in 86', Hakeem averaged 31 and Kareem averaged 27, however, Kareem was 39/40 years old that series and outplayed him in game one.
That's your definition of dominated? Outplayed in one game?

I mean, I remember Dirk outplaying Lebron in the finals but that doesn't make me think Dirk somehow dominated Lebron.

[BigShotBob]

That's your definition of dominated? Outplayed in one game?

I mean, I remember Dirk outplaying Lebron in the finals but that doesn't make me think Dirk somehow dominated Lebron.

If a 39 year old Kareem could do that to him, imagine what a prime/peak Kareem would do. Between the two there is no comparison. There is no big that came after Kareem that is on his level.

[tamaraw08]

The guy was highly touted as the 2nd GOAT (perhaps now overtaken by Lebron but still).

Yet in the 'weak' '70s, he only managed to win 1 title. This is despite playing for 6 seasons with Oscar Robertson and another all star in Bob Dandridge so it's not like he was playing with bad teammates like MJ.

In his 10 prime seasons before Magic, his team:

Made Finals 2x Won 1x
Lost in Conference Finals 3x
Lost in Conference Semis 2x
Lost in 1st Rnd 1x
Missed playoff 2x

I'm not sure this is really a resume worthy of how high he's usually ranked.
Wait, he won 1 title staying in Milwaukee? How many allstars teammates did he have?
Shouda couda collude with 2 allstars and win more rings then leave that team to
team up with another player who average 25 pts, 14 rebs and a dynamic PG who can average 33 pts in the finals. :facepalm

[iamgine]

If a 39 year old Kareem could do that to him, imagine what a prime/peak Kareem would do. Between the two there is no comparison. There is no big that came after Kareem that is on his level.
Getting outplayed by *insert name* that one time?

[Jasper]

The guy was highly touted as the 2nd GOAT (perhaps now overtaken by Lebron but still).

Yet in the 'weak' '70s, he only managed to win 1 title. This is despite playing for 6 seasons with Oscar Robertson and another all star in Bob Dandridge so it's not like he was playing with bad teammates like MJ.

In his 10 prime seasons before Magic, his team:

Made Finals 2x Won 1x
Lost in Conference Finals 3x
Lost in Conference Semis 2x
Lost in 1st Rnd 1x
Missed playoff 2x

I'm not sure this is really a resume worthy of how high he's usually ranked.

title asks a question and in your post you state 70's weak era.
how apathetic