PDA

View Full Version : Ask me my opinion/memory about NBA players from 1976-1986



RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 01:56 PM
according to ish standards, i am an old man-- 44 years of age to be exact. i joined last summer but have been posting more in the off the court lounge as of late.

i started watching seattle supersonic games as a fourth grader and have loved the nba ever since. the game has changed tremendously over the years and the different eras have their pluses and minuses.

since not many of us at ish have seen players of earlier eras, i could comment on the players from the years 1976-1986 if i have any recollection/opinion.

please give me time to respond as i do have many things going on in life and i am an "old man" and it may take me some time to remember and then write it out for you all.

i am by no means an expert of the nba but i have followed it closer than most fans over the years.

i promise to be as accurate as possible although i reserve the right to give an unapologetic opinion from time to time.

so, which nba players are you curious about from this time period 1976-1986?

IversonMelo2K7
06-17-2007, 02:00 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

Psileas
06-17-2007, 02:24 PM
Mark Landsberger. I'd always called him "Kurt Rambis' cousin". Do you agree? :D

statman32
06-17-2007, 02:31 PM
Alvin Adams(sp?)

IBLEEDGREEN43
06-17-2007, 02:36 PM
what is your opinion or memory about nba players from 1976-1986..

ripthekik
06-17-2007, 02:46 PM
Whats your career?
How much are u making?
What do you think of gays? Emo-kids? highschool kids these days?

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 04:50 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks
walton was probably the most complete center in basketball when it comes to the team concept. during the '77 finals i was in grade school and was cheering for the 76ers. they had more flash with dr j, mcinnis, chocolate thunder and world b free. we didnt think the blazers had a chance.

(interesting to note that henry bibby (mikes father) and joe bryant (kobe's dad) were on that philly team

but with walton, maurice lucas and a bunch of very good role players, they showed a total team offense and defense that was greater than the flash of the 76ers. walton did it all-- mostly from the high post, if memory serves correctly.

i can still remember bobby gross scoring on so many cuts and walton getting him the ball. walton was as close to a magic johnson-type passer, but as a center. lionel hollins looked good in that series too

waltons mixture of points, rebounds, assists and blocks were impressive-- not so much the stats (which are probably pretty good), but the timeliness of when it all happened. he would get them when the team needed them the most.

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 04:53 PM
Mark Landsberger. I'd always called him "Kurt Rambis' cousin". Do you agree? :D

i forgot about landsberger.

i dont remember much of him one way or the other-- just a decent role player is my limited opinion

rambis was an extraordinary role player and an underrated part of showtime for all those years. he took a lot of pressure off of kareem with his hustle, defense and rebounds

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 05:06 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

i actually feared for the sonics when they had to play moses. i remember him best with the 76ers and just thought he achored the middle so well that it always tough for us to deal with.

one of the things that cracked me up about moses was his grind-it-out-grit-your-teeth attitude toward rebounding. he had a will to get the ball that few rebounders have. barkely and rodman had this rebounding will too.

moses would just go after the ball as if his life depended on it. if that kind of guy is on your team-- you absolutely love the effort

i would love to see a stat like, how many of moses rebounds came off of his own missed shots because there were times where he would get a rebound, miss the putback, rebound his own putback, miss, rebound it again....

dwight howard reminds me a lot of moses-- except dwight is more physically developed at such a young age a lot more than moses was


side note: in slick watts' book, slick said that he and moses used to love to play checkers together when they both played in houston. he also mentioned that his teammates used to kid him about so many missed shots in the paint as a way to pad his rebounding stats

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 05:11 PM
Alvin Adams(sp?)

i always liked alvan adams' game. not flashy-- just dependable. decent rebounder and defender

he was a smooth player with a very good jumper. if there was a present day equivalent, it would be dirk.

dirk has a better long jumper (if there were a three point line in alvan's time, he probably would have easily developed it)

i respected the fact that he played his whole career with the suns

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 05:19 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

ralph--

boy, i have such mixed feelings about ralph. it was amazing to see a guy 7'4" get up and down the court like he did. in college and in his first years in the nba, he was better than kg

but he never developed any kind of inside game-- prefered to stay out of the key and not mix it up with the big bodies.

it was a shame when he developed problems with his knees. he never got back to being the player he was during his first three years after his health problems

the twin towers (he and akeem-- yes no "h") were a tough matchup for the western conference teams. they played well against showtime. if ralph's knees held up, that rockets team was just a player or two from taking away from a couple of championships from the lakers and celtics in the 80s

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 05:29 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

i remember mo best beacause of the championship in 83. he was a solid floor leader and kept all the guys on that team happy.

moses was in peak form. dr j was still amazing. andrew toney was just an assassin. seemed like he always just killed the sonics (and everyone else too). bobby jones was a lockdown defender

i must give props to a seattle native, clint richardson, who was a main role player off the 76er bench

cheeks knew how to run that team on the court. very solid decision-maker and playmaker

that 83 team was one of the best ever

Thorpesaurous
06-17-2007, 05:39 PM
I'll give you one in your wheelhouse. Micheal Cage. Sadly, I don't think this type of player really exists in the league anymore in any substantial way. Although this stuff is cyclical. Someone will wake up one morning and realize this guy could get 13 boards a night in this league, and things will swing back the other way.

johndeeregreen
06-17-2007, 05:48 PM
Chuck Hayes is in that same mold, just without the size or talent.

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 05:53 PM
I'll give you one in your wheelhouse. Micheal Cage. Sadly, I don't think this type of player really exists in the league anymore in any substantial way. Although this stuff is cyclical. Someone will wake up one morning and realize this guy could get 13 boards a night in this league, and things will swing back the other way.

i knew you could bring up some great memorable players thorpe!

i was a huge michael cage fan.

i actually moved to los angeles in 1985. it was impossible to get lakers tickets at a decent price so i started going to clipper games in the sports arena; i adopted the clippers. then, you could get a cheap seat for $8 and wander down and get very close to the court. the ushers didnt care and there were only maybe 4,000 at the games although they announced a higher number. i still cheer for them today

cage was a second year player with the clips and when i saw him- i couldnt believe his shoulders-- very impressive. he was a rebounding monster and a very good defender. later when he played for the sonics, we always cringed when he shot the ball though...

when reggie evans played for us a couple of years back, there were echos of cage in his game.

but cage was better. i liked the way he fit into the sonics team in the late 80s-- he knew his role and did it well

Thorpesaurous
06-17-2007, 05:53 PM
Yeah, there's a bunch of backup/fringe type players like that, just not really many playing substantial roles on quality teams. Not like when Cage, Thorpe, Oak, The two Davis', and so on populated almost every competitive team in the league.

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 06:08 PM
Yeah, there's a bunch of backup/fringe type players like that, just not really many playing substantial roles on quality teams. Not like when Cage, Thorpe, Oak, The two Davis', and so on populated almost every competitive team in the league.

i see these guys as remnants of the "enforcer" type roles that guys like maurice lucas, dennis awtry and kermit washington played in the 70s. solid guys who can get some rebounds and clog the middle and guys you want on your side when a fight broke out

why do you think jordan was so pissed when oak was traded

with the strict rule changes and enforcement, the role of the enforcer is not needed these days. too bad-- i prefered the league when guys took care of business on the court themselves. that all changed after the rudy t incident.

by the way thorpe, had you ever read "the punch" by john feinstein? its a great read and analysis of that terrible part of nba history

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 06:31 PM
for some vintage pics, check out

http://bermansports.com/contents.htm

the guy took pictures for the nets in the 70s and there are some fantastic shots of dr.j, david thompson, maravich, george mcginnis, george gervin, curtis perry and a number of other guys. i think alvan adams too

KWALI
06-17-2007, 06:43 PM
i knew you could bring up some great memorable players thorpe!

i was a huge michael cage fan.

i actually moved to los angeles in 1985. it was impossible to get lakers tickets at a decent price so i started going to clipper games in the sports arena; i adopted the clippers. then, you could get a cheap seat for $8 and wander down and get very close to the court. the ushers didnt care and there were only maybe 4,000 at the games although they announced a higher number. i still cheer for them today

cage was a second year player with the clips and when i saw him- i couldnt believe his shoulders-- very impressive. he was a rebounding monster and a very good defender. later when he played for the sonics, we always cringed when he shot the ball though...

when reggie evans played for us a couple of years back, there were echos of cage in his game.

but cage was better. i liked the way he fit into the sonics team in the late 80s-- he knew his role and did it well


Michael Cage is why I can't see what the big Deal is over Ben Wallace...Same dude and Cage was never lauded over..

Ah well

KWALI
06-17-2007, 06:44 PM
i see these guys as remnants of the "enforcer" type roles that guys like maurice lucas, dennis awtry and kermit washington played in the 70s. solid guys who can get some rebounds and clog the middle and guys you want on your side when a fight broke out

why do you think jordan was so pissed when oak was traded

with the strict rule changes and enforcement, the role of the enforcer is not needed these days. too bad-- i prefered the league when guys took care of business on the court themselves. that all changed after the rudy t incident.

by the way thorpe, had you ever read "the punch" by john feinstein? its a great read and analysis of that terrible part of nba history

as Kermit really a 'enforcer'? To me he was just a guy who saw someon creeping up on him from behind and obliterated him....Rudy should just kept his ass still he couldn't have helped anyway.

Thorpesaurous
06-17-2007, 06:57 PM
I read The Punch a few years ago when it first came out. It is a good read. Fienstein's a very good writer. I really liked his Last Amatuers book. I do think it's a bit of an overstatement to blame that punch so heavily for the leagues more disciplined take on fighting. I saw brutal fights between the Celtics and Pistons, the Celtics and Lakers, the Celtics and Sixers in the 80s. And I remember the fights between the Bulls and Knicks, where Derek Harper spilled into the stands. The Knicks and Pacers, the Bulls and Pacers, and the Heat and Knicks, that would all be considered full blown tragedies today, that were well after The Punch. I believe it was the Knick Heat series that directly led to the no one comes off the bench rule.

I'm not really opposed to the bench rule. It's the best way to keep things managable. It keeps things completely clear, and makes personal judgement in its enforcement obsolete. People complained that the league was playing favorites with the Suns suspensions this year (which makes no sense, considering the entertainment value the Suns have, and the fact that Spurs were a well known ratings killer prior to this season), but had those suspensions not been made, in light of the rule, that would have been FAR more dubious a decision.

I just wish the league would lighten the penalties for plays that take place on the court. It's a fast paced game, requiring quick decisions, and even if you think you can determine intent, I find it hard to lay too much blame in intent that's festered over the course of a few seconds. Take the Knick Nugget incident this year. Sure the Collins foul was egregious. But has to be put in the game, decide to take someone out, then has to get into that position. It's too much coincidence that he's trailing a breakaway guy in that situation to hold him so completely responsible for it. Eject the palyer, and be done with it. The holding of past incidents so against guys softens the league to a fault in my mind. No one can play in the moment. They need to consider what's come before, and what will come later if they decide to take a hard foul.

KWALI
06-17-2007, 07:02 PM
Um here's a guy I never really saw cuz in the early 80's only the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Knicks, Hawks and Detroit existed for me.

Reggie Theus

At one point after MJ's second retirement there was only one player with both more points and assists than him.....Pretty impressive for someone no one would remember

Also Dennis Johnson...only really saw him in 10 games b4 he became a Celtic.

Spencer Haywood.

And someone back me up on Elvin Hayes being very close to TD(I think he's as good but I know many won't wanna go there).....I think all you do is combine Elvin and Brad Daughtery and you got TD...you gotta change the jumper from up top to a bank shot though...Rasheed Kinda like Elvin too

tigermonkey
06-17-2007, 07:09 PM
Here's a question: is it just me or was the game back in the day a LOT slower than it is today? Every time I watch footage from back then it looks like everyone's moving in slow motion. People talk about how the old Celtics would destroy any team today but from the looks of it, guys like Tony Parker and Barbosa would run circles around yesterday's defenders.

jn2rons
06-17-2007, 07:40 PM
Reggie Theus was the 1st NBA player that I'd ever met...and the reason that I became a Bulls fan, in the Late 70's- Early 80's (pre-Jordan).

My dad knew him, and went to school with Theus' girlfriend at the time, who went to Pepperdine, out in Malibu. Said that Reggie used to come down all the time. They played against each other back in HS as well, in the LA area.

He had a really smooth game. Like a Poor mans Bernard King, with PG skills. Or for current comparisons....A less athletic T-mac.

He ushered me into the Jordan era, as a Bulls fan....when there were very FEW of them in the SoCal area.

Everyone and their moms liked Magic :ohwell: Not I!!! :no:

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 08:50 PM
as Kermit really a 'enforcer'? To me he was just a guy who saw someon creeping up on him from behind and obliterated him....Rudy should just kept his ass still he couldn't have helped anyway.

this is the opinion of many people about kermit.

read "the punch". john feinstein give a solid in depth exploration of who kermit really is and the background and the effects of that terrible night

the initial incident was between kareem and kevin kunnert; washington went back to defend/help kareem (the role of an "enforcer" of the 70s)

from there the versions differ until rudy t got hit

L.Kizzle
06-17-2007, 08:53 PM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka

1987_Lakers
06-17-2007, 08:55 PM
Norm Nixon

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 09:01 PM
I read The Punch a few years ago when it first came out. It is a good read. Fienstein's a very good writer. I really liked his Last Amatuers book. I do think it's a bit of an overstatement to blame that punch so heavily for the leagues more disciplined take on fighting. I saw brutal fights between the Celtics and Pistons, the Celtics and Lakers, the Celtics and Sixers in the 80s. And I remember the fights between the Bulls and Knicks, where Derek Harper spilled into the stands. The Knicks and Pacers, the Bulls and Pacers, and the Heat and Knicks, that would all be considered full blown tragedies today, that were well after The Punch. I believe it was the Knick Heat series that directly led to the no one comes off the bench rule.

I'm not really opposed to the bench rule. It's the best way to keep things managable. It keeps things completely clear, and makes personal judgement in its enforcement obsolete. People complained that the league was playing favorites with the Suns suspensions this year (which makes no sense, considering the entertainment value the Suns have, and the fact that Spurs were a well known ratings killer prior to this season), but had those suspensions not been made, in light of the rule, that would have been FAR more dubious a decision.

I just wish the league would lighten the penalties for plays that take place on the court. It's a fast paced game, requiring quick decisions, and even if you think you can determine intent, I find it hard to lay too much blame in intent that's festered over the course of a few seconds. Take the Knick Nugget incident this year. Sure the Collins foul was egregious. But has to be put in the game, decide to take someone out, then has to get into that position. It's too much coincidence that he's trailing a breakaway guy in that situation to hold him so completely responsible for it. Eject the palyer, and be done with it. The holding of past incidents so against guys softens the league to a fault in my mind. No one can play in the moment. They need to consider what's come before, and what will come later if they decide to take a hard foul.

if i recall, david stern was a lawyer for the nba at the rudy t/kermit punch. it made a lasting impression on him as to the damage that the nba athletes could do to one another in a fight. so, stern is the constant

as for the bench rule, my understanding is that the intent is to minimize a fight escalating like it did in the knicks-heat series.

i have never adhered to letter of the law interpretations. to me, if there is no escalation there ought not be the same penalty with those players who leave the bench and it escalates. in the suns-spurs game, yes-- technically they left the bench area, but there was no escalation. the suspensions ought to have been interpreted with these (non)consequences. the suns ought not have been suspended. a stiff fine could have served a just penalty: the suspensions were not just, imo

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 09:29 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

we (my grade school friends) were so excited when the the four aba joined the nba--- all because of dr j!!

we had seen highlights here and there but i had never really seen him. for us, it was more like a type of legend. you hear some things, but you arent sure if it exists for real.

doc was the nba version of sasquatch (and i am not talking about the lame sonic mascot). he was going to be coming out of the "woods" and we get to see him for real now

i dont remember exactly how i pulled it off, but i remember getting enough kids at school interested in going to a game as a class. (i went to a catholic school). we bought tickets and went to see the 76ers in 1976

we were all sonic fans cause that is all we knew (although i remember always cheering for the knicks cause i thought clyde frazier was soooo cool)

when the 76ers took the court, we were in awe of dr.j and his warmups. everytime he dunked, we were in heaven. when the game started, about two minutes into the game, doc picked up two fouls and had to sit down. we didnt know whether to cheer -- cause the sonics would then have the upper hand, or not cause we wanted to see doc

from 1976 on, doc gave us so many memorable moments and high flying fun. as i mentioned earlier, i was cheering for this team in the finals against the blazers and walton primarily because of doc

with all his great abilities as a smooth slasher and high flyer. his dunks had both power and grace. more than anything, doc was a class act (except when he got in that fight with bird which was really out of character for him on the court)

Burgz
06-17-2007, 10:34 PM
i know its a little out of the range, early of the timeline you gave...
but Connie Hawkins.
Heard many great things, how he revolutionized basketball, and finishing at the rim, but how?
id appreciate it if you could tell me

RainierBeachPoet
06-17-2007, 11:14 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks

so much has been written about these two-- i dont think i can add much

enough to say, i sided with magic and the lakers over the 80s whenever they played the celtics. i like to be "wowed" as part of the nba experience. magic, kareem and showtime did that for me for so many years. fastbreak basketball is the best.

love the anticipation of the break when magic led it because what gotes through my mind in that instant is: what will he do?

i bought into the hyped contrasts between magic vs bird, showtime vs grind it out, black against white. it was good drama-- it improved the whole league and the viewership of basketball.

my favorite laker moment was when they beat the celtics in the garden in 85. it was a breakthrough for the lakers. to do it on the celts homecourt was like kicking the leprechan in the a$$. it seemed more than just payback for the 7 game series the year prior. it seemed like a whole jinx was lifted for the lakers. i always wondered what what jerry west felt like after that 85 series

i respected bird but didnt cheer for him. he would be amazing with the way he played the game-- such understanding and such court vision. i must admit that i let my love for magic and the lakers cloud how i saw the celtics and bird. all i wanted was for magic to win over those h@ted celts

i probably respect those celts more now than ever; bird too

dejordan
06-17-2007, 11:45 PM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman

Gotterdammerung
06-18-2007, 01:45 AM
Hello Rainer! :D

I'd ask you tons of questions, but let's start with this one.

When a reporter asked Buck Williams if Shaquille O'Neal was the strongest player he ever faced, he scoffed and said Artis Gilmore was stronger.

Now, i can't remember the name, but one player had played both Artis and Wilt Chamberlain, and claimed that it wasn't even close. Artis was strong, but Chamberlain had unearthly strength.

My question would be: was Artis that strong, and would you say it's on Shaquille's level?
:confusedshrug:

OFFTOPIC: If they had the first pick, who would you rather the sonics draft: Durant or Oden? :hammerhead:

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 10:14 AM
Hello Rainer! :D

I'd ask you tons of questions, but let's start with this one.

When a reporter asked Buck Williams if Shaquille O'Neal was the strongest player he ever faced, he scoffed and said Artis Gilmore was stronger.

Now, i can't remember the name, but one player had played both Artis and Wilt Chamberlain, and claimed that it wasn't even close. Artis was strong, but Chamberlain had unearthly strength.

My question would be: was Artis that strong, and would you say it's on Shaquille's level?
:confusedshrug:

OFFTOPIC: If they had the first pick, who would you rather the sonics draft: Durant or Oden? :hammerhead:
good question gtdmmrng!

what i remember from artis is mostly from his san antonio days and he was already pas prime. when he played for chicago, they didnt get a lot of national coverage but i do recall some comments from others

i remember players alluding to his superior strength and how it was impossible to move him in the middle. even past prime with the spurs, he was a solid anchor in the middle and no one messed with artis. i used to really enjoy watching the spurs at that time because they had a freewheeling team and gervin was just so "ice"

as to the buck williams comment, i dont know the context but prehaps it had to with not giving shaq more confidence. to me, there is different kinds of "strength" in the nba. there is weightroom strength then there is playing strength-- being able to physically do what one wants in the key in particular. this has to do more with a strong base (mostly in the hips and a$$) plus good footwork/postioning.

hard to imagine anyone stronger than shaq-- especially with modern day weighttraining techniques that were not an emphasis in the 70s and early 80s. but if there were anyone who was stronger than shaq, it would have been artis. tough call-- we may never really know

another point of reference is kareem who praised wes unseld as the one who was the strongest in the paint

if the sonics had the #1, i would go with oden. there is such a lack of quality big men in the league; oden has developed a decent inside game and will just improve. but we wont complain with durant. i just hope the sonics stay in seattle... i will follow them with just about anybody (maybe with the exception of kobe)

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 10:26 AM
Um here's a guy I never really saw cuz in the early 80's only the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Knicks, Hawks and Detroit existed for me.

Reggie Theus

At one point after MJ's second retirement there was only one player with both more points and assists than him.....Pretty impressive for someone no one would remember

Also Dennis Johnson...only really saw him in 10 games b4 he became a Celtic.

Spencer Haywood.

And someone back me up on Elvin Hayes being very close to TD(I think he's as good but I know many won't wanna go there).....I think all you do is combine Elvin and Brad Daughtery and you got TD...you gotta change the jumper from up top to a bank shot though...Rasheed Kinda like Elvin too

spencer was the first superstar that the sonics had, he and slick were my favorites as a kid

spencer had a gliding tomahawk-type dunk that we went nuts over. he also had a baseline turnaround jumper that we just money

he injured himself by slipping on a wetspot on the coliseum floor caused by a leak in the roof. he then sued the sonics. (talk about biting the hand that feeds you). needless to say it the lawsuit didnt endear him to the fans. i was a little kid and cared more about his playing than any lawsuits...

one of my favorite spence moments was the 1974(?) all star game in seattle. he and bob lanier had 20+ point games and 12-13 rebounds in the west win. i thought for sure spence would get the mvp, but lanier won.

side note: a few years ago i saw lanier at the la airport. i chatted with him for a moment and recalled the game to him and told him i was cheering for spence to get it. lanier just smiled

KWALI
06-18-2007, 11:25 AM
McGInnis...

Think Karl Malone with a one handed J/set shot...really strong especially off the ball but no post moves really to speak off when he had possession. Really great mis range shooter...good scorer...rebounded well enough but a position guy not a flyer by any means...no shot blocking either but threw his wide body around on D.

Good player not as good as Karl Malone of course but simliar style.

Silent Mav
06-18-2007, 11:38 AM
44, you still have some catching up to do Ranier. Nice comments so far. A little surprised you haven't discussed the X-man yet. A discussion on the punch could go on forever. It's one of those things that would be great to sit at the barstool with you and thorpe and go on for hours.

SsKSpurs21
06-18-2007, 11:39 AM
good question gtdmmrng!

what i remember from artis is mostly from his san antonio days and he was already pas prime. when he played for chicago, they didnt get a lot of national coverage but i do recall some comments from others

i remember players alluding to his superior strength and how it was impossible to move him in the middle. even past prime with the spurs, he was a solid anchor in the middle and no one messed with artis. i used to really enjoy watching the spurs at that time because they had a freewheeling team and gervin was just so "ice"

as to the buck williams comment, i dont know the context but prehaps it had to with not giving shaq more confidence. to me, there is different kinds of "strength" in the nba. there is weightroom strength then there is playing strength-- being able to physically do what one wants in the key in particular. this has to do more with a strong base (mostly in the hips and a$$) plus good footwork/postioning.

hard to imagine anyone stronger than shaq-- especially with modern day weighttraining techniques that were not an emphasis in the 70s and early 80s. but if there were anyone who was stronger than shaq, it would have been artis. tough call-- we may never really know

another point of reference is kareem who praised wes unseld as the one who was the strongest in the paint

if the sonics had the #1, i would go with oden. there is such a lack of quality big men in the league; oden has developed a decent inside game and will just improve. but we wont complain with durant. i just hope the sonics stay in seattle... i will follow them with just about anybody (maybe with the exception of kobe)

A-TRAIN! I was going to ask you about artis as well. thanks for the writeup.

how about another spur, james silas?

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 05:02 PM
Um here's a guy I never really saw cuz in the early 80's only the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Knicks, Hawks and Detroit existed for me.

Reggie Theus

At one point after MJ's second retirement there was only one player with bothmore points and assists than him.....Pretty impressive for someone no one would remember

Also Dennis Johnson...only really saw him in 10 games b4 he became a Celtic.

Spencer Haywood.

And someone back me up on Elvin Hayes being very close to TD(I think he's as good but I know many won't wanna go there).....I think all you do is combine Elvin and Brad Daughtery and you got TD...you gotta change the jumper from up top to a bank shot though...Rasheed Kinda like Elvin too

reggie theus was fun to watch if you werent a bulls/kings fan because he was decent one on one player and could create his own shot

the problem was that he did a little too much of it

i always thought of theus as a stereotypical nba gunner

the only bigger gunner from that period that currently comes to mind is world b free. free never saw a shot he didnt like

dejordan
06-18-2007, 05:05 PM
reggie theus was fun to watch if you werent a bulls/kings fan because he was decent one on one player and could create his own shot

the problem was that he did a little too much of it

i always thought of theus as a stereotypical nba gunner

the only bigger gunner from that period that currently comes to mind is world b free. free never saw a shot he didnt like
where's the love for andrew toney? that cat could gun with the best of them!

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 05:16 PM
where's the love for andrew toney? that cat could gun with the best of them!

toney could put up some shots too, its true-- but at least he had moses and doc to keep him in line

reggie never had that and world b, once he left philly, was just unconscious!!

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 05:50 PM
And someone back me up on Elvin Hayes being very close to TD(I think he's as good but I know many won't wanna go there).....I think all you do is combine Elvin and Brad Daughtery and you got TD...you gotta change the jumper from up top to a bank shot though...Rasheed Kinda like Elvin too

elvin was the sonics' nemesis during the finals in 1978 and 1979. we loved cheering against him but we respected him


elvin hayes was a great "back to the basket" player. the bullets just used the throw the ball into him, he would back down his defender and had a variety of shots that he could get off. very effective

elvin's greatest strength was his greatest weakness too-- since he posted up so well, guys on his team would not get the ball back usually.

your comment regarding daugherty is insightful because brad was an exceptional passer in the post. youre right when you say that combining their strengths you get duncan!

sheeds difference is that he developed a long jumper/three point shot where e stayed inside

RainierBeachPoet
06-18-2007, 11:54 PM
Here's a question: is it just me or was the game back in the day a LOT slower than it is today? Every time I watch footage from back then it looks like everyone's moving in slow motion. People talk about how the old Celtics would destroy any team today but from the looks of it, guys like Tony Parker and Barbosa would run circles around yesterday's defenders.
no

i dont think the game was much slower then--- a little but not that much

i am not one who likes to try to cross eras. i think the teams need to be seen in the context of their own era primarily

although guys like parker and barbosa are quick, back then handchecking was legal. that neutralized that first step when you can give them a bit of a check before the start their move.

thats what i would like to see, handchecking back in the league. parker probably wouldnt have won the mvp this year...

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 09:39 AM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka
i loved walter davis' game-- his nicname, the greyhound, was descriptive indeed

smooth slasher with a great mid range jumper

michael finley in his prime was walter davis in his worst years


i always thought of rolando blackman as a team player-- a money player

my favorite blackman moment was in the all star game--i think it was the one in seattle when tom chambers won the mvp 1987-- the west was down by two as the clock was running down at the end of the game and blackman gets fouled at the buzzer

he goes to the line with no time on the clock

great drama!! we all wanted to see ot

he goes to the line, pressure building, takes his time. hits the first one

everyone focused-- he is alone at the line/key

takes the ball and, with ice in his veins, hits the second

he lets out a primal scream

Darsh
06-19-2007, 09:49 AM
Bernard King - Seems like the type of player i would have liked from what ive read and seen of him. Give us some insight into what he was like as a player.

Also, who would you compare him to from our league today?

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 11:56 AM
Also Dennis Johnson...only really saw him in 10 games b4 he became a Celtic.



http://www.nba.com/media/sonics/dennis_johnson%28254%29.jpg
tough, tough defender as well as overall guard in some of our best years 1977-1979 and the mvp of the championship year 1979 and

he redeemed himself after going 0-14 from the field in game 7 of the finals, in seattle, in 1978. oh the scars are deep from that game...

we hated the paul westphal trade that sent dj to phoenix

rip dj!

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 02:53 PM
44, you still have some catching up to do Ranier. Nice comments so far. A little surprised you haven't discussed the X-man yet. A discussion on the punch could go on forever. It's one of those things that would be great to sit at the barstool with you and thorpe and go on for hours.
i have been trying to take the names in the order that they were asked, but i have no problem putting you ahead as another "senior" member of ish!

ahhhh x-man --- we loved him so...

the perfect mix of talent and toughness. had a complete game except for a long jumper. good post player, could create his own shot if called upon, dependable jumper, will mix it up with anyone inside for the rebounds

we all felt safe with x on the team. our protector and foundation

my favorite x moment was the 1987 west conference finals when the lakers swept us out.

there was a fight and wes matthews and x got into it. wes was on the floor near the scorers table and x had a death grip on his neck with both hands. the picture in the paper was priceless; the look on wes' face shocked and gasping

i was living in los angeles at the time and caught some of the local coverage. one of the reporters asked michael cooper about the fight and wes matthews quote regarding x, "in the next game, his bald a$$ is MINE"

cooper smiled and said, "wes is on his own with that one"

no one wanted to mess with x...

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 02:57 PM
http://www.verbungle.com/choker.jpg

dejordan
06-19-2007, 03:09 PM
no one wanted to mess with x...
cept my main man, money!

Darsh
06-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Bump! Bernard King, yes?

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 10:07 PM
Bernard King - Seems like the type of player i would have liked from what ive read and seen of him. Give us some insight into what he was like as a player.

Also, who would you compare him to from our league today?

he was a great player. his knees in his later years betrayed him. had a sweet turnaround and pull up jumper. could go to the hole and finish well

i remember seeing him first at univ of tenn. with ernie grundfeld. they were touted the "ernie and bernie show"

watching carlos boozer int he playoffs reminded me a little of king. although king was a way better scorer, their movements in the key were similiar

as to creating off the dribble, v.c is a little like king

so, a combination of vince and carlos = bernard but i would take bernard over them in a heartbeat-- he was that good

Richie2k6
06-19-2007, 10:10 PM
What was Jordan's first game like? Did he have as much hype as LeBron?

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 10:20 PM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka

i dont remember much about birdsong.

my only impression of him was he was a good scorer for the kc kings...

duckworth was a decent player. a little soft for his size. i remember he had this one handed quick jumper in the lane. his best years were with portland; i dont remember him doing much after that

Tarik One
06-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Was Sidney Moncrief named? Or Jack Sikma?

Darsh
06-19-2007, 10:25 PM
he was a great player. his knees in his later years betrayed him. had a sweet turnaround and pull up jumper. could go to the hole and finish well

i remember seeing him first at univ of tenn. with ernie grundfeld. they were touted the "ernie and bernie show"

watching carlos boozer int he playoffs reminded me a little of king. although king was a way better scorer, their movements in the key were similiar

as to creating off the dribble, v.c is a little like king

so, a combination of vince and carlos = bernard but i would take bernard over them in a heartbeat-- he was that good

Awww i dont like VC a whole lot.

He wasnt soft was he?

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 11:17 PM
Awww i dont like VC a whole lot.

He wasnt soft was he?

i wouldnt say bernard was soft--- but he was no x-man either...

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 11:25 PM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka

gus was the man in seattle. nicname: the wizard

could hit that jumper like there was no tomorrow. slithery, subtle but gritty too

during the championship run, gus, dj and freddie brown were a great trio of guards for us

whenever we needed points, we could depend on gus. one on one or just getting open off some screens, gus was a true joy to watch

the only downer was when he sat out the year 80-81 because of contract dispute

dejordan
06-19-2007, 11:36 PM
gus was the man in seattle. nicname: the wizard

could hit that jumper like there was no tomorrow. slithery, subtle but gritty too

during the championship run, gus, dj and freddie brown were a great trio of guards for us

whenever we needed points, we could depend on gus. one on one or just getting open off some screens, gus was a true joy to watch

the only downer was when he sat out the year 80-81 because of contract dispute
my uncle (who taught me all the bball history i know pre 1986) always talked about what a great handle gus had, said he could always get his shot off.

RainierBeachPoet
06-19-2007, 11:53 PM
my uncle (who taught me all the bball history i know pre 1986) always talked about what a great handle gus had, said he could always get his shot off.
gus used to use a type of precurser to the jab step for his go-to move (jumper). just created enough room to get it off

RainierBeachPoet
06-20-2007, 09:39 AM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka

my impressions of kelly tripuka:

tripuka was the ultimate one dimensional player of the period

dude could shoot the lights out, but couldnt do much else

scoring machine but a liability in almost all other aspects of the game

current player comparison: kyle korver

except tripuka was a better scorer and kyle a better defender

RainierBeachPoet
06-20-2007, 10:57 AM
I'm real curious about these players

Walter Davis
Otis Birdsong
Rolando Blackman
Kevin Duckworth
George McGinnis
Gus Williams
Marques Johnson
Kelly Tripuka
marques was a marvelous all around player. very versitile scorer. inside and outside (but not from three point range)

he was so good those early 80s and made that bucks team so good for so many years. an authentic all star

decent defender too

i liked him when he was the color commentator for the sonics with kevil calabro doing play by play. they were a great team

my favorite saying of his was when hersey hawkins was hot-- marques would be shouting, "feed the hawk, feed the hawk"

cracks me up just thinking about it

RainierBeachPoet
06-20-2007, 08:20 PM
i know its a little out of the range, early of the timeline you gave...
but Connie Hawkins.
Heard many great things, how he revolutionized basketball, and finishing at the rim, but how?
id appreciate it if you could tell me

thanks for reminding my of the original "hawk" ( we sonic fans usually think of hersey hawkins when we hear "hawk")

i have vague memories of connie hawkins. watching the games at too young an age.

i remember him being very long...

i somewhat remember him well after his prime and remember announcers saying that in his heyday, hawk was revolutionary

i wish i could say more-- but at his best, i dont remember connie hawkins

perhaps silentmav has some comments...

Silent Mav
06-20-2007, 11:38 PM
Hawk was one of the early high fliers. Some spectacular dunks. Had a tough road to the NBA. Wasn't involved in a point shaving scandal back in college but was still expelled and banned from playing in the NBA. Played with the Globetrotters and in the ABA until he sued the NBA and got to play. My memories of him are from his days with the Suns.

RainierBeachPoet
06-21-2007, 09:47 AM
What was Jordan's first game like? Did he have as much hype as LeBron?
i dont remember jordans specific first game and by no ways or means did jordan have as much hype as lebron did

those days, rookies had to earn their coverage and respect.

with the media and internet today, guys come in with a reputation that is so high it puts unreasonable expectations on the high draft picks

we knew jordan was good and he proved it in the first year. even the guys who drafted that year didnt expect him to be one of the g.o.a.t.s.

Silent Mav
06-21-2007, 11:31 AM
He didn't have as much hype as Lebron, but he had enough to rile Isiah. Remember the infamous freeze-out led by Isiah in Jordan's first All-Star game?

RainierBeachPoet
06-21-2007, 11:37 AM
He didn't have as much hype as Lebron, but he had enough to rile Isiah. Remember the infamous freeze-out led by Isiah in Jordan's first All-Star game?

i remember it well. i think isiah still denies it

part of it was that jordan was wearing all the bling-bling during the weekend/interviews and thought to have brought attention to himself. the freezeout was participated by a number of the vets not just isiah

this was a manifestation of the nba pecking order that rookies had to "pay their dues" and be put in their place-- even if you were michael jordan


perhaps it was a turning point whereas rookies rebelled against this nba tradition

Silent Mav
06-21-2007, 11:51 AM
True, others vets participated in not passing him the ball, but it was led by Isiah. Makes me wonder would they still have done it without him.

Isiah can deny it all he wants. Jordan got the last laugh. There is a great book about the original Dream Team that goes into many behind the scene details. If they wanted Mike on the Dream Team there would be no Isiah. Zeke even pleaded with Magic to help get him on the team. And Magic told him there was nothing he could do.

RainierBeachPoet
06-21-2007, 12:20 PM
True, others vets participated in not passing him the ball, but it was led by Isiah. Makes me wonder would they still have done it without him.

Isiah can deny it all he wants. Jordan got the last laugh. There is a great book about the original Dream Team that goes into many behind the scene details. If they wanted Mike on the Dream Team there would be no Isiah. Zeke even pleaded with Magic to help get him on the team. And Magic told him there was nothing he could do.

without isiah it probably wouldnt have happened-- the others didnt like it that mj was getting so much play, but there wasnt anyone irked enough to lead it

yeah, payback was ***** for isiah. i remember being disgusted that zeke wasnt on the dream team because he certainly deserved it as being a hof-er at that point and still playing great ball in 92

obviously, mj had more leverage at that point

another aspect to their drama was that isiah was from chicago, but mj owned it. i am sure that didnt settle well with zeke...


two great hof-ers who didnt always do the right thing because of their uber-pride competitiveness

i want that kind of drama back in the nba!!!

oh yeah... kobe/shaq-- i forgot for a moment

RainierBeachPoet
06-21-2007, 11:39 PM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman

michael ray richardson was a decent scorer; probably more flash than substance

i dont know why, but i think of larry hughes being like michael ray

looks good for a while, but cant really count on him to be a winner

Silent Mav
06-22-2007, 09:30 AM
Ranier, since you're from the Northwest let me lob a couple of softballs at you. Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins and Dave Twardzik of the Blazers.

And how about Nate "Tiny" Archibald. He was one of my favorites.

RainierBeachPoet
06-22-2007, 09:31 AM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman

dt was clyde before he was

the guys had very similiar games-- gliding smoothly to the hoop, in the air or on the floor; fast and with a decent jumper

when the sonics got him, he was too steeped into coke... went downhill from there

but his denver years were indeed glorious. a true highflyer

RainierBeachPoet
06-22-2007, 10:08 AM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman

i liked ricky pierce as a player.

his best years were as a buck and he was such a dependable scorer. not fancy, but just efficient

when he came to the sonics, his game had dropped off just a touch. with gp getting better and better, there was a bit of the alpha dog drama that came between them.

perhaps that was part of our first round meltdown against the nuggets

he left town after the 1994 upset in that first round upset, and age got the better of him after that...

RainierBeachPoet
06-22-2007, 02:19 PM
Was Sidney Moncrief named? Or Jack Sikma?

sidney moncrief was fantastic. in the early 80s, he was the guard everyone wanted on their team. as i remember him, i dont think he had any glaring weaknesses. i think he had a knee injury (?) and wasnt quite the same afterwards

could score in a variety of ways, was a team player and could find the open man, excellent on the ball defender amd for a guard, a good rebounder

eauclaire447
06-22-2007, 02:29 PM
Mark Landsberger. I'd always called him "Kurt Rambis' cousin". Do you agree? :D
thats funny..i actually know kurt rambis' cousin..his name is bruce borders, he was on david letterman because he is famous for being a elvis impersonater as well as mayor....i know:wtf:

Underdog
06-22-2007, 03:23 PM
Fat Lever
Larry Nance
Eric "Sleepy" Floyd
Gus Johnson
Tom Chambers
Kiki Vandeweghe
"Downtown" Freddie Brown
Roy Tarpley
Alvin Robertson
Slick Watts
Jeff Ruland

Underdog
06-22-2007, 03:30 PM
http://www.verbungle.com/choker.jpg

Indeed...priceless.

Yo, Ranier, you remember Ross Schaeffer and John Kiester from Almost Live? I remember X being on the show and they asked him about that picture, in which he responded, "I was asking him if he cared to dance!" At the time, it was funny.

RainierBeachPoet
06-22-2007, 07:58 PM
thats funny..i actually know kurt rambis' cousin..his name is bruce borders, he was on david letterman because he is famous for being a elvis impersonater as well as mayor....i know:wtf:

man

what are the odds that an ish-er actually knew rambis' cousin!!!

(((( ps-- i am trying to chip away with the players that were mentioned in earlier posts-- be patient with me gents ))))

1987_Lakers
06-22-2007, 11:39 PM
What did you think of Mychal Thompson???

RainierBeachPoet
06-23-2007, 12:16 AM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman

truth be known, i actualy was more of an iceman fan than dr j. as much as i liked doc's throwdowns, i thought that ice's finger roll looked sooooo cool. and his silky jumper was just wonderful and seemingly an automatic two

i started following the spurs because of it. i liked that mix that they had with mike mitchell, johnny moore mark oberding, george johnson

what always amazed me was how gervin could hold his own being so pencil thin.

RainierBeachPoet
06-23-2007, 10:18 AM
michael ray richardson

david thompson

chocolate thunder

rickey pierce

alex english

iceman
everyone loved daryl dawkins.

he had personality and knew, at some level, that the game was also entertainment. and he was a real ham

his breaking the backboards amazed us cause he had such power; we had never seen anyone break the glass like that before

of course his naming his dunks added spice to it all too

sa far as his hoops skills, he was a big man who knew how to use his body in the paint, a decent backup center. average numbers

extraordinary public persona

in retrospect, he probably would have had his game more polished if he had gone to college and then to the nba

RainierBeachPoet
06-23-2007, 11:25 AM
McGInnis...

Think Karl Malone with a one handed J/set shot...really strong especially off the ball but no post moves really to speak off when he had possession. Really great mis range shooter...good scorer...rebounded well enough but a position guy not a flyer by any means...no shot blocking either but threw his wide body around on D.

Good player not as good as Karl Malone of course but simliar style.

ditto

also, worthy mentioning is how he and dr.j had trouble coexisting on that 76ers team

i dont know the details though--

remember the drama silentmav?

Silent Mav
06-23-2007, 11:57 AM
I'm not sure how true it is, but supposedly George was used to being the man in Indiana. Wasn't exactly thrilled about playing second fiddle to Julius.

RainierBeachPoet
06-23-2007, 05:18 PM
Norm Nixon

norm was a very good player. what i remember most about norm was his very quick first step and deadly pullup jumper

oftentimes he would shoot that jumper off balance too

i hated to see him go to san diego but byron scott was a good fit for the lakers too

married debbie allen

RainierBeachPoet
06-23-2007, 10:09 PM
Was Sidney Moncrief named? Or Jack Sikma?

jack sikma is one of the great underrated centers of the league.

he was excellent fundamentally and dependable. i hadnt thought about this before, but jack could be considered a poor man's tim duncan. they have very similiar games

the one unique move that sikma had was the inside pivot before his jumper. i havent seen other player use this very simple, but effective move

in jack's rookie year, he learned well from marvin (the human eraser) webster. they both played key roles in our run to the finals.

after marvin signed on with the knicks for the 78-79 year, jack held down the middle as a second year man and we won it all

i liked having him on the bench as an assistant last year. looks like the new owner is cleaning house in preparation for leaving seattle, o jack left

you rockets fans are VERY fortunate to have sikma. look for yao to improve again with a different center perspective in jack

RainierBeachPoet
06-24-2007, 09:36 AM
Ranier, since you're from the Northwest let me lob a couple of softballs at you. Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins and Dave Twardzik of the Blazers.

And how about Nate "Tiny" Archibald. He was one of my favorites.

i really liked that blazer team that won the championship. surprising that i was born and raised in seattle and didnt see them more as rivals. i guess your team has to win and lose a few playoff games before that really sinks in

man-- i feared lucas he was so tough. not dirty but just a real MAN in the key. he is the one who freed walton from having to worry too much about the "dirty" work and was a real key to that 77 blazer club

he played for the sonics at the end of his career

guys like lucas dont really exist in the nba anymore, not in the same way as the late 70s at least


hollins was a dependable shooting guard and knew his role on that squad also-- shoot the jumper when walton or twardzik gets you the ball


i also liked scrappy dave twardzik. he was a lot like very poor man's steve nash. wasnt a scorer but a no nonsense point who could find the seams in the d. he knew who to get the ball to in the proper situations and always seemed to be in the right place at the right time


silentM--- just curious, what do you remember about bobby gross?

RainierBeachPoet
06-24-2007, 06:10 PM
Ranier, since you're from the Northwest let me lob a couple of softballs at you. Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins and Dave Twardzik of the Blazers.

And how about Nate "Tiny" Archibald. He was one of my favorites.


tiny was one of my favorites too. exciting player. in the ai mold...

i cant remember what year it was but it was the early-mid 70s. the all star game was kind of boring-- the announcers even mentioned it

then in the next couple of minutes, tiny led a couple of fastbreaks. one of them, he was blazing down the middle of the floor and he jumps up, kicks his leg up and throws the ball through his kicked up leg to a teammate going down the right hand side.

tiny was a very exciting player.

anyone with any footage?

RainierBeachPoet
06-25-2007, 12:14 AM
Fat Lever
Larry Nance
Eric "Sleepy" Floyd
Gus Johnson
Tom Chambers
Kiki Vandeweghe
"Downtown" Freddie Brown
Roy Tarpley
Alvin Robertson
Slick Watts
Jeff Ruland

lafayette lever-- i almost forgot about him. had a great overall game and could really light it up

had his best years as a nugget. i had to look up his career and it surprised me that he was only an all star for two years--- seemed a lot more than that

i liked alvin robertson's game. dependable offensively and was a very good defender

i was surprised in the opposite way in that i didnt think he made four all star teams!! i would have guessed two

i guess this is what happens when one hits 40--- memory starts to slip a bit

dejordan
06-25-2007, 12:22 AM
i really liked that blazer team that won the championship. surprising that i was born and raised in seattle and didnt see them more as rivals. i guess your team has to win and lose a few playoff games before that really sinks in

man-- i feared lucas he was so tough. not dirty but just a real MAN in the key. he is the one who freed walton from having to worry too much about the "dirty" work and was a real key to that 77 blazer club

he played for the sonics at the end of his career

guys like lucas dont really exist in the nba anymore, not in the same way as the late 70s at least


lucas sounds like what oakley was for the knicks. that sort of player really is a lost breed. you think that's due to the change in rule emphasis making the game less physical overall? the preponderance of perimeter bigs?

RainierBeachPoet
06-25-2007, 09:42 AM
lucas sounds like what oakley was for the knicks. that sort of player really is a lost breed. you think that's due to the change in rule emphasis making the game less physical overall? the preponderance of perimeter bigs?

yes-- that is a good parallel-- oak and lucas

oakley knew what he was good at and it helped those bulls and knick teams

i think it is due to a combination of the rule changes and the change in the bigs

now, instead of a teammate protecting a star, stu jackson does that from the comfort of his nba office


in a way, magic johnson was the main reason for the shift in the big mans roles. many elite players in high school, because they were head and shoulders above their peers, could afford to experiment on the court more.

after magic, many big men wanted to handle the ball. it probably took away from time working on big man skills, footwork, back to the basket drills/moves etc

this was magnified once we saw more europeans come over who have a different game entirely and didnt grow up seeing nba style bang-'em'-around-smash mouthed hoops

there is so much talent too, there are physical guys who can contribute in other ways.

ben wallace is an exception though. perhaps there is a place for guys with that kind of defensive presence and heart on any team. these guys are very rare however

RainierBeachPoet
06-25-2007, 11:47 PM
Fat Lever
Larry Nance
Eric "Sleepy" Floyd
Gus Johnson
Tom Chambers
Kiki Vandeweghe
"Downtown" Freddie Brown
Roy Tarpley
Alvin Robertson
Slick Watts
Jeff Ruland

sleepy was a scorer. i liked him when he played for g-town and he had a decent career

i just reviewed his stats-- it seemed like he was more than a 20+ ppg scorer more than for just one season....


when he played for the warriors, in one of those playoff games against the lakers, sleepy went off for over 50-- i think it was 87

his houston years were thoroughly forgettable though...

KWALI
06-26-2007, 02:41 AM
Darryl Dawkins was one of the most wasted Talents of all time...He's Amare without someone like Nash and with no one really recognizing the type of beast he was...NO WAY he should have been a fringe player...but bad coaching didn't start in the late 90's and he was also mentally WEAK...a Big reason They won after he was gone in Philly...It's so funny how Lucas basically scared the Sixers out of a ring by extinguishing Dawkins.

Sleepy Floyd was a lto like another G-town guard AI..funny...

X-Man really a tweener interms of size but his heart of a Lion mentality made him bigger than he was.

Ricky Pierce..add Eddie Johnson and **** umm whats' that other three point shooter....can't remeber but these guys are just instant offense...Ricky is a better all around scorer but just that a scorer.

KWALI
06-26-2007, 02:56 AM
One thing that proves Dominique is overlooked overall to me is that all these Youtube clips on Dunks never show his triple pump reverse on the Bucks where he actually decides to rotate after having left the ground and dunks with authority after contact with Lanier and two other Bucks.....

Other than VC dunking on Weiss most amazing ingame dunk I've seen....bar none.

RainierBeachPoet
06-26-2007, 09:39 AM
Darryl Dawkins was one of the most wasted Talents of all time...He's Amare without someone like Nash and with no one really recognizing the type of beast he was...NO WAY he should have been a fringe player...but bad coaching didn't start in the late 90's and he was also mentally WEAK...a Big reason They won after he was gone in Philly...It's so funny how Lucas basically scared the Sixers out of a ring by extinguishing Dawkins.

Sleepy Floyd was a lto like another G-town guard AI..funny...

X-Man really a tweener interms of size but his heart of a Lion mentality made him bigger than he was.

Ricky Pierce..add Eddie Johnson and **** umm whats' that other three point shooter....can't remeber but these guys are just instant offense...Ricky is a better all around scorer but just that a scorer.
dale ellis perhaps?

KWALI
06-26-2007, 09:56 AM
dale ellis perhaps?

Exactly

I remember the Lakers vs Celtics game where he was the Sonics star player on CPU...I was gunning. pump fake get eh defender and cash three 90 acuracy

RainierBeachPoet
06-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Fat Lever
Larry Nance
Eric "Sleepy" Floyd
Gus Johnson
Tom Chambers
Kiki Vandeweghe
"Downtown" Freddie Brown
Roy Tarpley
Alvin Robertson
Slick Watts
Jeff Ruland

i cant believe i havent commented on one of my favorite all time sonics--- freddy brown

we called him downtown because he would shoot from past 25 ft often. when he was hot, he used to pull up near the hash mark

freddy would have salivated to see the three point line in his hayday. even as his career was fading, he still led the league in 3pt % the first three years after the nba adopted it

he spent all 13 seasons with the sonics and his best years were in the mid 70s

i remember going CRAZY in front of the tv as a 6th grader. freddy had 30 points at halftime against the warriors!! i remember trying to explain the significance to my mom as she saw me going berserk

i remember telling her, "30 points is a great game; and its only the half and he has that!"

freddy set the sonic record for points that night-- 58 -- i believe it still stands today (i wish i could see that game again to see how many of those buckets came from (todays) three point arc. it could have easily been 65 points

i salute you freddy!!! you gave us some great hoops moments throughout the years

L.Kizzle
06-30-2007, 07:07 PM
Calvin Murphy
David Thompson
Sidney Moncrief

RainierBeachPoet
07-01-2007, 01:17 PM
Calvin Murphy
David Thompson
Sidney Moncrief

moncrief was a great overall player. all star defender and could score both inside and out. he had some serious hops in his earlier days (like all of us)

sidney was another main reason that those bucks teams were so tough in the 80s.

he could be considered a not-so-poor-man's mj...

RainierBeachPoet
07-01-2007, 01:26 PM
calvin murphy could be one of the most underrated hof-ers of all time

he could score in bunches but was characterized by his toughness. there were a lot of fights back then and calvin backed down from no one. he mixed it up with many a big man

he has a heart of a lion!!

RainierBeachPoet
07-01-2007, 01:32 PM
david thompson comments on post #71

ps-- i used to have his signature shoe the "DT"

it was a high-top twill, white shoe with a red and blue stripe around the top

Psileas
07-07-2007, 10:45 AM
All right, Rainier, here's a question for you, since you are a Sonics' fan:

As we know, old legends' mixes include only very specific highlights of their careers, while many of these will never be shown. One of them was a dunk Dr.J made on Lonnie Shelton. It's found only as a pic in the middle of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbm6b-6gvpo

(2:25-2:30)

So, I'm asking you: Do you remember having seen this specific play? Did they show it on TV? And if yes, why the h@ll is there no footage of it today? (And that's only one of the many Dr.J plays that almost no-one knows of today, which is a real shame).

RainierBeachPoet
07-07-2007, 11:19 AM
All right, Rainier, here's a question for you, since you are a Sonics' fan:

As we know, old legends' mixes include only very specific highlights of their careers, while many of these will never be shown. One of them was a dunk Dr.J made on Lonnie Shelton. It's found only as a pic in the middle of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbm6b-6gvpo

(2:25-2:30)

So, I'm asking you: Do you remember having seen this specific play? Did they show it on TV? And if yes, why the h@ll is there no footage of it today? (And that's only one of the many Dr.J plays that almost no-one knows of today, which is a real shame).
ahhh p-sileas

i wish you would post more-- youre one of the people i enjoy reading. (i think i told you once that whenever i see your name i think of paul silas-- the great "chairman of the boards")

that youtube-ization (it is no longer posterization) of lonnie is great--doc is looking level at the rim!

i dont remember seeing it at the time. it looks like it was during lonnies knick seasons before he come to the sonics. i cracked up seeing mcadoo just standing there watching-- so typical of mcadoo not to play d

my best response to why we dont see more footage is that, compared to today, the average fan didnt have access to see replays

most of coverage was regional-- pretty much your own team was picked up by the local station. they might just show a few highlights.

my guess is that the people in philly saw more highlights of doc than we did seattle. but my guess is that there probably wasnt a lot either

games were filmed, but they are literally on film. i am no video expert, but i suppose that the process to convert them to internet friendly formats take a lot of time. and there is a lot of film sitting in some storage room in each of the nba cities

one would probably have to sit through hours and hours of footage to get the great highlights. unlike today where it is immediately on youtube moments after it happens (remember naterob blocking yao this year?)

also, there werent a ton of camera at each game. you usually saw the midcourt shot 20 rows up. there may have been a couple cameras elsewhere nearer the court. but it certainly isnt like today where there are numerous cameras from a variety of angles

not to mention a ton of photographers

that is my best guess... i could be very wrong about all of this

ps-- that dunk of doc at 2:52-3:02 still amazes me after all these years-- i remember seeing that one on tv as it happened

Fudge
07-07-2007, 11:24 AM
Otis Birdsong
Bernard King

RainierBeachPoet
07-08-2007, 01:35 PM
Otis Birdsong
Bernard King

see post #s 51 and 53

1987_Lakers
07-08-2007, 02:02 PM
u skipped Mychal Thompson. lol.

hateraid
07-08-2007, 07:01 PM
we (my grade school friends) were so excited when the the four aba joined the nba--- all because of dr j!!

we had seen highlights here and there but i had never really seen him. for us, it was more like a type of legend. you hear some things, but you arent sure if it exists for real.

doc was the nba version of sasquatch (and i am not talking about the lame sonic mascot). he was going to be coming out of the "woods" and we get to see him for real now

i dont remember exactly how i pulled it off, but i remember getting enough kids at school interested in going to a game as a class. (i went to a catholic school). we bought tickets and went to see the 76ers in 1976

we were all sonic fans cause that is all we knew (although i remember always cheering for the knicks cause i thought clyde frazier was soooo cool)

when the 76ers took the court, we were in awe of dr.j and his warmups. everytime he dunked, we were in heaven. when the game started, about two minutes into the game, doc picked up two fouls and had to sit down. we didnt know whether to cheer -- cause the sonics would then have the upper hand, or not cause we wanted to see doc

from 1976 on, doc gave us so many memorable moments and high flying fun. as i mentioned earlier, i was cheering for this team in the finals against the blazers and walton primarily because of doc

with all his great abilities as a smooth slasher and high flyer. his dunks had both power and grace. more than anything, doc was a class act (except when he got in that fight with bird which was really out of character for him on the court)


In your opinion, was Doc a scorer? I think people get this misconception of him and think he wasn't able to create, which I thought he was a phenomenal scorer.

BTW, thanks for this history lesson, nice to here from somebody who's had a better experience with earlier player.:cheers:

RainierBeachPoet
07-08-2007, 07:35 PM
u skipped Mychal Thompson. lol.
my bad...

i liked mychal thompson. i thought he was a gritty defender as well as a better than average scorer and rebounder.

he used to have this little one handed flip shot. it looked kinda funny but it was effective

the best sonics seats i ever had were in the second row underneath the basket. the sonics were playing portland in 1982 i believe. i remember just being amazed how hard the guys hammer each other. he and jack sikma were going at it all night and it was great being on the floor with them and FEELING the contact too

the other thing about thompson was he had a great sense of humor. he was from the bahamas and had a funny spin on many things

(ps-- i just looked at his stats. in '81-82 he averaged 20/11 )

Silent Mav
07-08-2007, 07:39 PM
doc was a class act (except when he got in that fight with bird which was really out of character for him on the court)

It was very out of character. But then Celtic-Sixer games back then were battles for supremacy of the east. You always had a Celtic-Sixer game on before the Super Bowl (Before they decided to pimp the Super Bowl for all it was worth with a million hours of pregame and a midnight start). You had two fierce competitors that got caught up in the heat of the moment. I'm not going to hold against either one.

RainierBeachPoet
07-09-2007, 08:17 AM
It was very out of character. But then Celtic-Sixer games back then were battles for supremacy of the east. You always had a Celtic-Sixer game on before the Super Bowl (Before they decided to pimp the Super Bowl for all it was worth with a million hours of pregame and a midnight start). You had two fierce competitors that got caught up in the heat of the moment. I'm not going to hold against either one.

i liked watching those matchups. it just seemed that they would show these two teams almost every week

being from the west coast, i wanted to see more of the western conference teams at times...

fights were more common then; no one really made a big deal out of them as they do now

ps (esp for s-mav)-- do you remember when the fine for a technical foul was $75?

Silent Mav
07-09-2007, 09:31 AM
Yes I do. And can you imagine what would happen today if someone did clothesline like McHale did to Rambis?

Yes, they did show the East a lot back then. And when you did get a western game it was always Laker vs insert random team here.

kidachi
07-09-2007, 11:08 AM
how about......
Purvis Short
Joe Barry Carroll
Alvin Robertson
Paul Pressey
Ricky Pierce
Sidney Moncrief
Andrew Toney - my dad's fave player

hope you can answer..

:cheers:

johndeeregreen
07-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Antoine Carr.

RainierBeachPoet
07-09-2007, 01:05 PM
how about......
Purvis Short
Joe Barry Carroll
Alvin Robertson
Paul Pressey
Ricky Pierce
Sidney Moncrief
Andrew Toney - my dad's fave player

hope you can answer..

:cheers:

check out previous posts for these guys-- i think i already commented on them.

the others.... in a bit (i am at work)

RainierBeachPoet
07-10-2007, 12:29 AM
how about......
Purvis Short
Joe Barry Carroll
Alvin Robertson
Paul Pressey
Ricky Pierce
Sidney Moncrief
Andrew Toney - my dad's fave player

hope you can answer..

:cheers:

his nicname is famous-- "joe barely cares"

it says it all. the guy had great potential and flashes of greatness but was a lethargic player who didnt have heart.

kinda like michael olowakandi

not much else to say-- just a big disappointment in the league

dejordan
07-10-2007, 12:31 AM
his nicname is famous-- "joe barely cares"

it says it all. the guy had great potential and flashes of greatness but was a lethargic player who didnt have heart.

kinda like michael olowakandi

not much else to say-- just a big disappointment in the league
celts fans love the hell outta that guy though!

haji_d_robertas
07-10-2007, 01:15 AM
This may be a sore point with you, but I'll ask anyway. Do you have anything to say about Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld? Thanks.

RainierBeachPoet
07-10-2007, 09:16 AM
This may be a sore point with you, but I'll ask anyway. Do you have anything to say about Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld? Thanks.

not a sore point at all
(now dj going 0-14 in game 7 in seattle during the finals in 1978--- THAT is a sore point)

those two years, 1978 and 1979, wes and elvin were our arch-enemies

besides bill walton, no one threw a better outlet pass after a defensive rebound than wes. (my older brother used to tell me that bill russell had an awesome outlet pass also)

wes and elvin were great players. wes really held down the middle in spite of being undersized. think of him as a meaner ben wallace!!

elvin-- what can i say. once the ball went into him near the elbow, you knew he was going to get a shot off in the middle. he had an awesoome turnaround j

RainierBeachPoet
07-10-2007, 09:22 AM
how about......
Purvis Short
Joe Barry Carroll
Alvin Robertson
Paul Pressey
Ricky Pierce
Sidney Moncrief
Andrew Toney - my dad's fave player

hope you can answer..

:cheers:

pressey and short. i remember seeing them play but cant comment too much one way or another

i loved alvin robertsons game!!!
he had a complete package--- very solid defender, good decisionmaking on offense, dependable jumper, get to the hoop

he was a quiet guy too-- seemingly shy. it added to the impression of his humility

if i remember too, at one point in his nba career, he used to wear braces! i always was worried that he would catch an elbow from tree rollins or one of those guys in the paint and just bleed a river...

RainierBeachPoet
07-10-2007, 09:25 AM
celts fans love the hell outta that guy though!

definitely!

in retrospect, the biggest nba trade robbery in history

they ought to buy joe barry a mansion in boston in thanksgiving

kidachi
07-10-2007, 09:31 AM
this is such a great a idea for a thread rainier! :rockon: :applause:

RainierBeachPoet
07-10-2007, 09:47 AM
this is such a great a idea for a thread rainier! :rockon: :applause:

i get a great idea once every five years... too bad i blew it on an ish thread!!!

poeticism707
07-11-2007, 01:21 AM
Why?

kidachi
07-11-2007, 08:33 AM
another batch of players rainier....

orlando wooldridge
mike gminski
sleepy floyd
ed pinckney
wayman tisdale
jeff malone
terence stansbury

RainierBeachPoet
07-20-2007, 08:25 AM
another batch of players rainier....

orlando wooldridge
mike gminski
sleepy floyd
ed pinckney
wayman tisdale
jeff malone
terence stansbury

i just got back from vacation----

o was a fan favorite back in the 80s as he always had some mean dunks-- had some pretty decent seasons with the bulls and nets

he was like a poor mans xavier mcdaniel

HisJoeness
12-27-2008, 06:47 PM
I'll start off with some easy ones. What was your take on Tom Chambers? Why don't you think those mid-80's Sonic teams never reached title contender status?

RainierBeachPoet
12-28-2008, 07:30 AM
I'll start off with some easy ones. What was your take on Tom Chambers? Why don't you think those mid-80's Sonic teams never reached title contender status?
wow HJ-- you dug this one up from the past!:cheers:

the sonics of the late 80s was a fun team. we had three guys scoring over 20ppg-- chambers, x-man and dale ellis


chambers was a unique player. he could take a guy hard to the hoop and throw it down in his face or hit nice jumpers. in his prime in the late 80s, he was a brute

the only knocks on him were he wouldnt share the ball as often as he should and he was probably an average defender

the '87 all star game in seattle when he won the mvp-- he jacked up 25 shots in 29 minutes! i remember watching the magic johnson interview after the game and his nod to tom was very subdued

(this was still the time when the guys played hard during the all star game and wanted to win. imagine-- they actually took pride in playing some defense during the asg!!)

chambers had a great career!

stephanieg
12-28-2008, 09:48 AM
Jamaal Wilkes.

Cookie Monster
12-28-2008, 10:36 AM
This may just be a lil' bit out of the time limit, but what would you say about a young Dennis Rodman? By this I mean Dennis in his early days as a Piston were he wasn't so flamboyant and not the amazing rebounder he was.

RainierBeachPoet
12-28-2008, 06:11 PM
Jamaal Wilkes.

i just went through to see if i had commented already regarding jamaal. i hadnt!

i remember him as keith wilkes. i first remember him at ucla and then with the championship warriors his rookie year. he was a perfect fit on the lakers with magic and kareem in the early 80s. he ran the floor well and could finish just about anywhere on the court

he was slight and a total finesse player. but he had one of the strangest looking jumpers. he cocked the ball in a odd motion behind his head. it was very difficult to block

could wilkes shoot!

wilkes was a quiet an unassuming player off the court-- a total class act

RainierBeachPoet
12-28-2008, 06:17 PM
This may just be a lil' bit out of the time limit, but what would you say about a young Dennis Rodman? By this I mean Dennis in his early days as a Piston were he wasn't so flamboyant and not the amazing rebounder he was.

rodman with the pistons reminded me of a gazelle. he was fast up and down the court and he just was all over the place. the ultimate energizer bunny of the nba. he was just relentless for the ball and had young legs that never ran out of gas.

dennis was the main reason the pistons got past the lakers as the best team in the league-- he gave magic johnson fits on defense. he matched him in height and at that point, was quicker. as much as anyone in the league, he neutralized magic and that made a big difference in the pistons-lakers matchup

dennis learned a lot from both mahorn and laimbeer. being the youngster on the team, he towed the line because of isaiah and laimbeers leadership. for this reason, he was not a headcase or never had trouble off the court-- all that developed later

Cookie Monster
12-28-2008, 06:43 PM
Thank you very much. In those younger days, did he ever show the rebounding dominace that he would be famous for in his later years? And also, what do you think the main reason for his rebounding explosion coming about was?

Thanks alot.

nnn123
12-28-2008, 08:21 PM
Hey man, this is an amazing thread thanks for all the time and effort.

I was just wondering about your opinion on Kareem Abdul Jabbar, comparing him to some great centers of the later eras....obviously he's not some sort of obscure player that people wouldn't remember, but I'm not old enough to remember him and a lot of people on this forum maybe aren't either. How do you think Kareem ranks compared to Shaq and Hakeem (players I am old enough to remember)?? Thanks for your time.

Niquesports
12-29-2008, 04:22 PM
bill walton
dr. j
magic
bird
moses
ralpn sampson
mo cheeks


Moses imo is the most underrated C of all time just a true beast could score rebound and bclog up the middle on D.

Niquesports
12-29-2008, 04:31 PM
This may be a sore point with you, but I'll ask anyway. Do you have anything to say about Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld? Thanks.


Being a long time Bullets fan mabe I can help. When thinking of Unseld think of Ben Wallace. just a guy that would give you 110% an undersize C that use his size and strenght to matchup with much bigger players like jabbar. He had one of the best outlets passes ever and set killer picks
hayes the Big E as he was called made the turnartound jumper as popular as Jabbar's sky hook. A big time scorer that could rebound soemwhat of a black whole when he got the ball but was a great 1 2 punch mix with Unsled who didnt shoot much. the player today who I think most resembls hayes would hasve to be Amare.

kidachi
12-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Slick Watts
"downtown" Freddie Brown
TR Dunn
Kelly Tripucka
Kevin Porter

Niquesports
12-29-2008, 04:37 PM
i really liked that blazer team that won the championship. surprising that i was born and raised in seattle and didnt see them more as rivals. i guess your team has to win and lose a few playoff games before that really sinks in

man-- i feared lucas he was so tough. not dirty but just a real MAN in the key. he is the one who freed walton from having to worry too much about the "dirty" work and was a real key to that 77 blazer club

he played for the sonics at the end of his career

guys like lucas dont really exist in the nba anymore, not in the same way as the late 70s at least


hollins was a dependable shooting guard and knew his role on that squad also-- shoot the jumper when walton or twardzik gets you the ball


i also liked scrappy dave twardzik. he was a lot like very poor man's steve nash. wasnt a scorer but a no nonsense point who could find the seams in the d. he knew who to get the ball to in the proper situations and always seemed to be in the right place at the right time


silentM--- just curious, what do you remember about bobby gross?


IF Im not mistaken Dave came off the bench Johnny davins and Hollis where the starting guards. Manu reminds me a little of Bobby Gross just a all around hustle guy that found a way to score.

catzhernandez
12-29-2008, 04:58 PM
What were your feelings for Dale Ellis?

I always heard he was a woman-beater.

RainierBeachPoet
12-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Thank you very much. In those younger days, did he ever show the rebounding dominace that he would be famous for in his later years? And also, what do you think the main reason for his rebounding explosion coming about was?

Thanks alot.

he was a decent rebounder back in his first couple of years, but i had know idea of what kind of rebounder he would be

my guess is that the reason dennis' numbers grew so much was the decline of bill laimbeer and the pistons needing rodman's rebounds more and more. i havent checked the numbers

as his role changed, dennis just became more and more focused on the boards and became a real expert with experience

RainierBeachPoet
12-29-2008, 05:24 PM
Moses imo is the most underrated C of all time just a true beast could score rebound and bclog up the middle on D.

moses was a "capital B" Beast

there are many parallels with how dwight howard plays and malone

RainierBeachPoet
12-29-2008, 05:53 PM
Hey man, this is an amazing thread thanks for all the time and effort.

I was just wondering about your opinion on Kareem Abdul Jabbar, comparing him to some great centers of the later eras....obviously he's not some sort of obscure player that people wouldn't remember, but I'm not old enough to remember him and a lot of people on this forum maybe aren't either. How do you think Kareem ranks compared to Shaq and Hakeem (players I am old enough to remember)?? Thanks for your time.

kareem had been a favorite of mine for many years. many people think that he was only a finesse center but it isnt totally true. early in his career, he was very thin and perhaps shied away from banging in the paint. (which the bigs really did well!) but as he gained more weight and experience, kareem played the middle well and was never a wimp

he scored in a variety of ways: had a decent jumper, put backs but of course everyone knows his signature shot-- the skyhook. he would consistenly hit that shot from as far out as 17 feet. kaj always hit his free throws

the public didnt warm up to kareem because of his pro-black stance and changing his name from lew alcindor. but also since he met the press with indifference at best and contempt at his worst

comparing kaj to shaq and dream: shaq was just a force that no one could guard because of his sheer size and strength. hakeem had the best footwork and team skills. kareem was a better money scorer

bottom line: all great centers with unique individual skills

RainierBeachPoet
12-29-2008, 06:01 PM
Slick Watts
"downtown" Freddie Brown


see post #95 for downtown freddie brown!!

here is a copy paste from a former thread regarding:


slick watts


http://www.historylink.org/db_images/sonics004.JPG


my all time sentimental favorite!! as kids we used to hang outside the coliseum and wait for the players to sign autographs. slick would sign every single one of them and hang around and joke with the crowd.

led the league in 1976 in steals and assists.

the originator of the headband and bald head look in the nba. we all had headbands in the seattle youth leagues in the mid 70s. slick still lives in seattle and does community appearances

edit: he was called slick not only because of his bald head, but he was a very slick guard with quickness and a sly court sense

Niquesports
12-29-2008, 06:03 PM
kareem had been a favorite of mine for many years. many people think that he was only a finesse center but it isnt totally true. early in his career, he was very thin and perhaps shied away from banging in the paint. (which the bigs really did well!) but as he gained more weight and experience, kareem played the middle well and was never a wimp

he scored in a variety of ways: had a decent jumper, put backs but of course everyone knows his signature shot-- the skyhook. he would consistenly hit that shot from as far out as 17 feet. kaj always hit his free throws

the public didnt warm up to kareem because of his pro-black stance and changing his name from lew alcindor. but also since he met the press with indifference at best and contempt at his worst

comparing kaj to shaq and dream: shaq was just a force that no one could guard because of his sheer size and strength. hakeem had the best footwork and team skills. kareem was a better money scorer

bottom line: all great centers with unique individual skills


Great thread like to get your take on a few guys many of these young guys might not have ever heard of

Phil Chenier classic battles with Walt Frazier
Bobby Dandridge classice 3 helped 2 teams win titles Bucks and Bullets was the missing piece to the Bullets championship team
Randy Smith one of the fastes guards to ever play the game played with Bob Mcadoo in Buffoll forgot what happened to him
The great back court of Jerry Sloan and Norm Van lier very underrated back court on a really good Bulls team

RainierBeachPoet
12-29-2008, 06:09 PM
TR Dunn
Kelly Tripucka
Kevin Porter

tr dunn was mostly a great defender but i dont remember him much after that

porter was a great assist man and i mostly remember him with the bullets. he had some injury issues i believe. a very good pg

tripuka-- i remember him as a big time scorer at notre dame and he really brought that to the pistons. he and isaiah were a good 1-2 punch. he could really shoot!

kelly was an average defender though but overall had a good nba game and career

Niquesports
12-29-2008, 06:12 PM
tr dunn was mostly a great defender but i dont remember him much after that

porter was a great assist man and i mostly remember him with the bullets. he had some injury issues i believe. a very good pg

tripuka-- i remember him as a big time scorer at notre dame and he really brought that to the pistons. he and isaiah were a good 1-2 punch. he could really shoot!

kelly was an average defender though but overall had a good nba game and career

KP was a very good assist man being a big Bullet fan back in those days id like to say great assist man. Him and KC Jones took the blame for the Bullets getting swept by the Warriors when really its was the Warriorts front court that killed the Bullets big line up of Unseld Hayes Riordon and Truck Robinson

Jasper
12-29-2008, 06:33 PM
What makes Mchale better or worse than Garnett ?

McHale - http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_bio.html

55fg% 79FT% 7.3 boards 1.7 ast 344 career steals 1690 career blks 17,335 pts 17.9 ppg

Garnett : 53fg% 84FT% 11boards 4.3 ast 1.6 blks per game 20.3PPG

Mchale 3 rings

garnett 1 ring

fyi - you r not alone , I am 50 !

lilojmayo
12-29-2008, 08:15 PM
RainerBeachPoet

can you educate me on Rookie Michael Jordan

RainierBeachPoet
12-30-2008, 07:22 AM
Great thread like to get your take on a few guys many of these young guys might not have ever heard of

Phil Chenier classic battles with Walt Frazier
Bobby Dandridge classice 3 helped 2 teams win titles Bucks and Bullets was the missing piece to the Bullets championship team
Randy Smith one of the fastes guards to ever play the game played with Bob Mcadoo in Buffoll forgot what happened to him
The great back court of Jerry Sloan and Norm Van lier very underrated back court on a really good Bulls team

chenier was actually very similiar to frazier. kind of a poor man's clyde. bigger body for a guard (in those days), solid defender, excellent fundamentals, nice shot. i do not recall specific head to head matchups with clyde. (we really only got one national game a week and the local games with the local team the sonics-- RIP)

dandridge was an assassin. slasher and jump shooter. he actually was the difference in many of those sonic-bullet battles. you could pretty much write in the big e and unseld for their points and rebounds, so if dandridge had a good game, the bullets generally won

randy smith could be one of the fastest guys ever in the league. yes-- i wrote "ever". he would be comparable to barbosa in his speed but with better handles. i do remember him with buffalo-- he and mcadoo were pretty awesome as a duo. it seems like the media favorite was ernie digregorio and they pumped up ernie and mcadoo more. but randy was a very good guard in the league

sloan and van lier is probably the best blue collar backcourt i can recall. tough as nails and never afraid to get down and dirty with opponants. it all started on the defensive end with this backcourt. i liked them a lot

Niquesports
12-30-2008, 11:41 AM
What makes Mchale better or worse than Garnett ?

McHale - http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_bio.html

55fg% 79FT% 7.3 boards 1.7 ast 344 career steals 1690 career blks 17,335 pts 17.9 ppg

Garnett : 53fg% 84FT% 11boards 4.3 ast 1.6 blks per game 20.3PPG

Mchale 3 rings

garnett 1 ring

fyi - you r not alone , I am 50 !


This is one comparison that rings cant be taken into context mchale was on great teams KG has only 1 year of being on a great team.Most would say Kg is a franchise player and Mchale is a very good role player most would take Kg

RainierBeachPoet
12-30-2008, 04:05 PM
What makes Mchale better or worse than Garnett ?

McHale - http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_bio.html

55fg% 79FT% 7.3 boards 1.7 ast 344 career steals 1690 career blks 17,335 pts 17.9 ppg

Garnett : 53fg% 84FT% 11boards 4.3 ast 1.6 blks per game 20.3PPG

Mchale 3 rings

garnett 1 ring

fyi - you r not alone , I am 50 !

good to know that i am not the oldest guy here

i will post a little lter when i have more time

good question-- mchale vs kg

dhenk
12-30-2008, 04:25 PM
This is one comparison that rings cant be taken into context mchale was on great teams KG has only 1 year of being on a great team.Most would say Kg is a franchise player and Mchale is a very good role player most would take Kg

:wtf:
McHale is still in the discussion for best PF ever. There are others, so you could put him at #5, but not lower. To call him a very good role player is ridiculous.

catzhernandez
12-30-2008, 04:26 PM
:cry:

dhenk
12-30-2008, 04:29 PM
:cry:

Is there a top 50 all time player that played for the Pacers?
I can`t remember, since the Pacers are so completely meaningless in the History of the NBA...

RainierBeachPoet
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
What makes Mchale better or worse than Garnett ?



they do not put role players into the hof; mchale is a hof-er. garnett is a slam dunk to be there as well

what makes mchale so tough was his low post game. he had so many different ways he could score on you in the low block. this is why he was so effective on those great celtic teams. like hakeem, he had precise footwork that puts him head and shoulders above the vast majority of big men. he did have the advantage of playing with so many other great players in boston and kevin was an important part of the team concept. in many ways, the stats dont tell the full story with mchale


what makes garnett so great is his emotions and ability to post up as well as hit jumpers. he is very athletic and was a better shot blocker than mchale

if i have a primary scorer who is not a post man on my team already-- i pick mchale.

if i am looking for an "energy guy" to kick life into my team-- i go with garnett

RainierBeachPoet
12-30-2008, 06:23 PM
Is there a top 50 all time player that played for the Pacers?
I can`t remember, since the Pacers are so completely meaningless in the History of the NBA...

the pacers did have the disadvantage of entering the league as the aba folded

they say that roger brown and mel daniels were outstanding players. i must admit i dont remember seeing them-- they didnt show much aba ball on tv. george mcginnis was a hell of a player too

i think that the top 50 list is fine but that it is limiting because there are SO many good players that have played pro ball over the years

reggie gave you guys many great years too

(( speaking as a sonic fan, just be thankful for your team))

RainierBeachPoet
12-31-2008, 08:13 AM
RainerBeachPoet

can you educate me on Rookie Michael Jordan

i used to love mj those first couple of years before he became over exposed in the media

he was a curiosity for us just because he was so good coming in. but no one really guessed he would be THAT good that fast. there was a reason the bulls were called "michael and the jordannaires". until phil jackson got him to buy into the triangle and trust his teammates, jordan was a fun act but didnt find team success in the playoffs


but really i liked the laker-celts-bucks-76ers-pistons because they were complete teams

but jordan made for great espn highlights

west
12-31-2008, 08:27 AM
how good was Robert Parish???:confusedshrug:

RainierBeachPoet
12-31-2008, 12:54 PM
how good was Robert Parish???:confusedshrug:

good enough to get into the HOF and play 20 years in the league

he was a good fit for that celt team

solid rebounder. decent shot from inside of 15 ft. good passer. ok shotblocker

he always seemed like a stiff to me but his longevity alone is reason to give the guy his due

Thorpesaurous
01-01-2009, 04:58 PM
so much has been written about these two-- i dont think i can add much

enough to say, i sided with magic and the lakers over the 80s whenever they played the celtics. i like to be "wowed" as part of the nba experience. magic, kareem and showtime did that for me for so many years. fastbreak basketball is the best.

love the anticipation of the break when magic led it because what gotes through my mind in that instant is: what will he do?

i bought into the hyped contrasts between magic vs bird, showtime vs grind it out, black against white. it was good drama-- it improved the whole league and the viewership of basketball.

my favorite laker moment was when they beat the celtics in the garden in 85. it was a breakthrough for the lakers. to do it on the celts homecourt was like kicking the leprechan in the a$$. it seemed more than just payback for the 7 game series the year prior. it seemed like a whole jinx was lifted for the lakers. i always wondered what what jerry west felt like after that 85 series

i respected bird but didnt cheer for him. he would be amazing with the way he played the game-- such understanding and such court vision. i must admit that i let my love for magic and the lakers cloud how i saw the celtics and bird. all i wanted was for magic to win over those h@ted celts

i probably respect those celts more now than ever; bird too


I feel exactly the same way on the other side of the fence. Although even at the height of the rivalry, I could never bring myself to truely dislike Magic. I grew up as a PG, and there was just too much to like, and the relationship between him and Bird made it seem OK to like him. I hated Kareem though, and now think he's probably the best player of all time. My biggest problem with Magic was probably his relationship with Isiah who I also hated.



Originally Posted by west
how good was Robert Parish???

I have to admit that I think Parish is among the most overrated players of all time. Not that he wasn't very good, but the guy made the top fifty players list, which is rediculous. He was a long defender that caused problems, but he was also surrounded by a frontline that often featured two other 6-10 guys. His little rainbow turnaround was an effective shot, and because of his size and really high release, it was a reliable shot that you could count on getting off whenever. He wasn't a great scorer, just good, not a great rebounder, but good, not a great defender, but good. He wasn't as good as good a player in total in my eyes as Mutumbo, Brad Daugherty, even Z. I like the guy as a player, a great piece, but he's not a top fifty player ever, and I honestly don't think he's even a hall of famer.


What makes Mchale better or worse than Garnett ?

McHale - http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_bio.html

55fg% 79FT% 7.3 boards 1.7 ast 344 career steals 1690 career blks 17,335 pts 17.9 ppg

Garnett : 53fg% 84FT% 11boards 4.3 ast 1.6 blks per game 20.3PPG

Mchale 3 rings

garnett 1 ring

fyi - you r not alone , I am 50 !

This is sort of a pet topic of mine, because as much as I think Parish is overrated, I actually think McHale is a bit underrated. Because of his bench role early on, and the fact that he played with another really good big, and a SF who was among the best post players ever, his minutes and total numbers I don't actually think reflect just how good he was. McHale was a great shot blocker. To me, a guy you could actually build a defense around. Not on the Duncan level of defensive anchor maybe, but a guy who you could really put a defense in front of like that. He rotated great, was always in good position, and had those awkwardly long arms and high set shoulders that seemed to trick players into thinking they were in a better position than they actually were. Garnett too is a great defender, but that's in part because of the pressure he applies up top. His length makes him a nightmare on traps and in passing lanes. I think it's a slightly different approach.
The big difference to me between he and Garnett is mostly that McHale has a purer back to the basket game. He can create easy shots for himself. That forces double teams, and warps defenses. Garnett's post game never developed that way. It's better than I give it credit for, but he relies so much and that fadeaway, which while is an unstopable shot, it's also not something that forces the defense to move, because it's not going to be affected by a double. Garnett can make tough shots, while McHale could get easy shots. It's been a common theme in basketball for the past 15 years or so. Shot takers, guys who can make tough shots, are more common than shot creators, guy's who get easy shots.
I think the big question about McHale as a lead player is his passing. The guy was a genuine black hole. But it's hard to say why. His post game operated quickly, so he often didn't have to react to doubles. And it was good enough to beat them. He also probably had some psyche issues because of playing time and touches between him and Bird (along with the rest of the roster). Garnett on the other hand is a much better passer, and is actually on the short list of best passing bigs of all time.
Starting a team, I'd probably take McHale for his post presence ahead of Garnett, but it'd be really really close. I love Garnett's energy, I love his versatility on defense (he'd be great next to a big time shot blocker that would free him up to freelance more, a Camby or Ty Chandler type). I love his passing. But I think that go to guy post scorer mentality can't be taught. And just how highly do I think of them, I'd take either of them to start my team ahead of Barkley or Karl Malone.

RainierBeachPoet
03-21-2010, 09:24 AM
I feel exactly the same way on the other side of the fence. Although even at the height of the rivalry, I could never bring myself to truely dislike Magic. I grew up as a PG, and there was just too much to like, and the relationship between him and Bird made it seem OK to like him. I hated Kareem though, and now think he's probably the best player of all time. My biggest problem with Magic was probably his relationship with Isiah who I also hated.




I have to admit that I think Parish is among the most overrated players of all time. Not that he wasn't very good, but the guy made the top fifty players list, which is rediculous. He was a long defender that caused problems, but he was also surrounded by a frontline that often featured two other 6-10 guys. His little rainbow turnaround was an effective shot, and because of his size and really high release, it was a reliable shot that you could count on getting off whenever. He wasn't a great scorer, just good, not a great rebounder, but good, not a great defender, but good. He wasn't as good as good a player in total in my eyes as Mutumbo, Brad Daugherty, even Z. I like the guy as a player, a great piece, but he's not a top fifty player ever, and I honestly don't think he's even a hall of famer.



This is sort of a pet topic of mine, because as much as I think Parish is overrated, I actually think McHale is a bit underrated. Because of his bench role early on, and the fact that he played with another really good big, and a SF who was among the best post players ever, his minutes and total numbers I don't actually think reflect just how good he was. McHale was a great shot blocker. To me, a guy you could actually build a defense around. Not on the Duncan level of defensive anchor maybe, but a guy who you could really put a defense in front of like that. He rotated great, was always in good position, and had those awkwardly long arms and high set shoulders that seemed to trick players into thinking they were in a better position than they actually were. Garnett too is a great defender, but that's in part because of the pressure he applies up top. His length makes him a nightmare on traps and in passing lanes. I think it's a slightly different approach.
The big difference to me between he and Garnett is mostly that McHale has a purer back to the basket game. He can create easy shots for himself. That forces double teams, and warps defenses. Garnett's post game never developed that way. It's better than I give it credit for, but he relies so much and that fadeaway, which while is an unstopable shot, it's also not something that forces the defense to move, because it's not going to be affected by a double. Garnett can make tough shots, while McHale could get easy shots. It's been a common theme in basketball for the past 15 years or so. Shot takers, guys who can make tough shots, are more common than shot creators, guy's who get easy shots.
I think the big question about McHale as a lead player is his passing. The guy was a genuine black hole. But it's hard to say why. His post game operated quickly, so he often didn't have to react to doubles. And it was good enough to beat them. He also probably had some psyche issues because of playing time and touches between him and Bird (along with the rest of the roster). Garnett on the other hand is a much better passer, and is actually on the short list of best passing bigs of all time.
Starting a team, I'd probably take McHale for his post presence ahead of Garnett, but it'd be really really close. I love Garnett's energy, I love his versatility on defense (he'd be great next to a big time shot blocker that would free him up to freelance more, a Camby or Ty Chandler type). I love his passing. But I think that go to guy post scorer mentality can't be taught. And just how highly do I think of them, I'd take either of them to start my team ahead of Barkley or Karl Malone.

i agree with you thorp-- parish is overrated; mchale underrated

perhaps it is from the "bird" effect: they both get overshadowed by larry. james worthy is in the same boat with guys because he played with magic

plowking
03-21-2010, 09:57 AM
Who in your opinion was better, Bird or Magic?

What are your opinions on Earl Monroe? Was he a player that wowed you, and what did you believe were his strengths?

Ass Dan
03-21-2010, 10:53 AM
Billy Ray Bates

averaged close to a point a minute for the Blazers in 80 and 81.

for some reason his ppg doubled in the playoffs.

He once scored 64pts on 20-25 shooting and 5-6 from 3pt in a Philippine League game.

He also went to jail for robbing a Texaco in 1998.

TELL ME MORE!

JMT
03-21-2010, 12:09 PM
Billy Ray Bates

averaged close to a point a minute for the Blazers in 80 and 81.

for some reason his ppg doubled in the playoffs.

He once scored 64pts on 20-25 shooting and 5-6 from 3pt in a Philippine League game.

He also went to jail for robbing a Texaco in 1998.

TELL ME MORE!

6'4 guard. Amazing athlete who could jump through the roof. Complete knucklehead.

I remember him missing the first half of a game. He slept through it.

His play steadily dropped after his rookie year. You could see something wasn't right.

Also remember him trying to come back after drug rehab. Maybe 82 or 83? WAY overweight...like 25-30 lb, which is an awful lot for a guy who probably played around 200...it was awful. Snuffed by front of rim on a dunk attempt. Pretty sure he was cut the next day.

Didn't he cut a guys nose or ear off in the Texaco robbery? Somewhere in NJ.

zizozain
03-21-2010, 04:52 PM
thanks Rainier for the time and effort

JMT
03-21-2010, 05:00 PM
thanks Rainier for the time and effort

Yeah, though I'm not sure what I think about a guy nearly 10 years younger than me being positioned as an old timer. :ohwell:

JMT
03-21-2010, 05:08 PM
Who in your opinion was better, Bird or Magic?

What are your opinions on Earl Monroe? Was he a player that wowed you, and what did you believe were his strengths?

I'll take a shot at this.

I'm always mystified by the attempts to compare guys that played different positions. Both are all time top 5 or better at their position, and all time top 20 or better players. What's to compare?

Bird shot and rebounded better. Magic ran a team, was more versatile, and defended better. Now, before the Magic haters go crazy, Magic was not a great defensive point guard. But he could defend both forward slots. Had the zone been legal in those days, Magic would have been a beast at the point on D.

Final shot? Bird. Getting the team in position for a final shot? Magic.

Earl "The Pearl" was a highlight film. Not really fast but incredibly quick. Nearly unstoppable at creating his shot. Not a great outside shooter, but good enough to keep you off balance, and a poor defender. Quick hands, and Walt Frazier on the other side, are the only things that kept him from being a pathetic defender. Could get to the rim and had a lethal mid-range jumper once his defender was backpedaling in the lane.

I always viewed Monrow as the backcourt equivalent of Dominique Wilkins. He did have the good fortune to play on better teams than Nique.

RainierBeachPoet
03-21-2010, 08:26 PM
Who in your opinion was better, Bird or Magic?

What are your opinions on Earl Monroe? Was he a player that wowed you, and what did you believe were his strengths?

i am a magic fan through and through. he made the lakers as a team better. bird, just like jordan, was so good that it took a lot of pressure off his team mates. but the point guard magi was in a unique position to get everyone going. but when he had to score himself-- like in game 6 of the 1980 finals-- he could do that too

earl the pearl was one of my favorite players growing up. frazier and monroe for the 73 knicks were simply fantastic. earl's strength's were scoring and the "wow" factor-- he was a very entertaining player to watch.

Gifted Mind
03-21-2010, 08:30 PM
Great Thread!


I have a question. RBA, how would you rank these perimeter defenders that played during that time. And if you can, please add some reasons and insights. I would really appreciate it.


Bobby Jones
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncreif
Alvin Robertson
Maurice Cheeks
Michael Cooper

RainierBeachPoet
03-21-2010, 08:30 PM
Billy Ray Bates

averaged close to a point a minute for the Blazers in 80 and 81.

for some reason his ppg doubled in the playoffs.

He once scored 64pts on 20-25 shooting and 5-6 from 3pt in a Philippine League game.

He also went to jail for robbing a Texaco in 1998.

TELL ME MORE!

i am a little murky in my memory of billy ray. the impression i had at the time was that he was a flashy player but also a gunner and a selfish player

RainierBeachPoet
03-21-2010, 08:31 PM
thanks Rainier for the time and effort

i havent been posting much lately-- thanks for the vote of confidence zzzn

markymark
03-22-2010, 07:56 AM
I wasn't alive yet at that time so here goes...

Why do the players in the classic vids I've seen look unathletic as hell? It seems as if a JR Smith-level player could easily dominate that era. Or do my eyes deceive me?

G.O.A.T
03-22-2010, 08:42 AM
Be curious to hear your thoughts on Tiny Archibald as a Celtic. Not sure people hear appreciate how good he was when he changed his style to mesh with those teams.

Also be curious to hear your thoughts on the Rockets from '81-'86. The whole team really, we always hear about Moses, Sampson and Hakeem (and I'd like your take too), but what about the other guys. Robert Reid, Rodney McCray, Lewis Lloyd, Calvin Murphy and even guys like Elvin Hayes and Mike Dunleavy as Rocekts. I vaguely remember anything before Hakeem with them but I always thought it was interesting that they went from NBA to Finals, to NBA's worst, back to the Finals so fast.

RainierBeachPoet
03-22-2010, 09:07 AM
Great Thread!


I have a question. RBA, how would you rank these perimeter defenders that played during that time. And if you can, please add some reasons and insights. I would really appreciate it.


Bobby Jones
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncreif
Alvin Robertson
Maurice Cheeks
Michael Cooper

you have chosen some of the all time best defenders and it is VERY difficult to compare them (i am just glad you did not add walt frazier who could be argued the best too because of his superior on the ball d; gary payton is also in this category). jerry sloan was perhaps the nastiest and hard-nosed defender in nba history.

bobby jones (i assume you refer the 76er great and not the UW hopeful a coupld of years ago) was a tough defender: gritty, great court vision and anticipation. but bobby was not primarily a perimeter defender but took on the best forward of the opposition

moncrief and robertson were similar defenders. sneeky, smooth, great anticipation surprisingly strong given their slight build. it sounds like i just described michael cooper too!

maurice cheeks was a heady defender and understood team defense perhaps better than the rest. but maybe not more than DJ. DJ was one of the main reasons the sonics won it in '79-- his defense. as he got more experienced, esp as a celtic, he got even wiser as an nba defender.

my personal bias is desire: defense is 90% about the will to stop someone. so the psychological aspect of the game so here is how i rank these all time great defensive players you mentioned:


Michael Cooper
Dennis Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Alvin Robertson
Maurice Cheeks
Bobby Jones but i would add GP and clyde at the top too...

RainierBeachPoet
03-23-2010, 12:00 AM
Be curious to hear your thoughts on Tiny Archibald as a Celtic. Not sure people hear appreciate how good he was when he changed his style to mesh with those teams.



i actually liked tiny better when he played for kansas city. he was a scorer and quick as devin harris is today. i remember tiny spicing up the '73 all star game with some fantastic passing.

he did have to change his style when he went to boston-- although it was good for the team, i always thought we lost the creativity of a great player in tiny. perhaps it was a function of his aging...

SCdac
03-23-2010, 12:37 AM
What was it like watching six foot seven George Gervin lead the league in scoring for the third straight season with 33 points a game on 52.8 FG% while taking/making virtually no three pointers?......
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0307/nba_u_ggervin_565.jpg

RainierBeachPoet
03-23-2010, 04:54 PM
B
Also be curious to hear your thoughts on the Rockets from '81-'86. The whole team really, we always hear about Moses, Sampson and Hakeem (and I'd like your take too), but what about the other guys. Robert Reid, Rodney McCray, Lewis Lloyd, Calvin Murphy and even guys like Elvin Hayes and Mike Dunleavy as Rocekts. I vaguely remember anything before Hakeem with them but I always thought it was interesting that they went from NBA to Finals, to NBA's worst, back to the Finals so fast.

i really liked the twin towers-- they were a feared team in the league because of the match up problems they created. i was actually in los angeles when sampson hit that shot to knock out the lakers. mannnn if ralph didnt mess up his knees he would have been a HOFer.

moses was a bull in the paint. he was so tenacious going after the rebounds

mccray and and lewis lloyd were better than average role players and did their jobs well within the team concept

i dont remember the big E and dunleavey much with the rockets. but i LOVED calvin murphy. he was one tough SOB (he boxed at one point in his life) even at 5'9" he could hit the jumper so smoothly

RainierBeachPoet
03-24-2010, 07:39 PM
What was it like watching six foot seven George Gervin lead the league in scoring for the third straight season with 33 points a game on 52.8 FG% while taking/making virtually no three pointers?......
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0307/nba_u_ggervin_565.jpg

ice could just plain BALL!!!! (but we wont talk about his defense)

i had that classic poster of him sitting on iceblocks with two basketballs in my room for years

he was so smooth and would pull up from anywhere on the court. he and mike mitchell plus johnny moore-- they were lethal together.

oh, and he did have the finest finger roll layup in the league

ShaqAttack3234
03-24-2010, 08:02 PM
Who was better on the 1982 Lakers championship team and the 1985 team? Magic or Kareem?

And what did you think of Moses Malone's defense? His shot blocking numbers aren't that impressive, but he did have an all-defensive first team selection in 1983.

RainierBeachPoet
03-25-2010, 10:34 AM
Who was better on the 1982 Lakers championship team and the 1985 team? Magic or Kareem?

.
magic and kareem needed each other

in 82, the team still deferred to kaj-- he was the leader and it was still his team.

by 85, magic had seasoned more and kaj was on the decline (although he was still averaging over 20ppg!!). but magic's confidence and stature allowed him to really take over the leadership of the team. kareem was happy to hand it over as his ego never got in the way with how he saw magic and their roles

dough
03-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Swen Nater, what do you remember about him?

RainierBeachPoet
03-25-2010, 07:28 PM
Swen Nater, what do you remember about him?
this is how i remember him:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0910/john.wooden.birthday/images/john_wooden-3.jpg

he was the guy who took bill walton's place on ucla after walton graduated. in the nba, i dont remember much about nater other than he was a decent center. i mostly remember him in a clipper uniform