America is the greatest country in the world

[Objectivity]

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/KF7Sg3.png (http://imageshack.com/f/pmKF7Sg3p)



https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4089/HOgfGd.gif (http://imageshack.com/f/pmHOgfGdg)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/H9F30V.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/plH9F30Vj)



https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/JjU76n.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/plJjU76nj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/b1gPfQ.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/pmb1gPfQj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/h7k3KK.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/plh7k3KKj)

[Objectivity]

Not to worry though, the military is kept strong with a quarter of the federal expenditures going not into education, not into health care, but directly into the preservation of american exceptionalism :rockon:

[Patrick Chewing]

I always laugh at those murder rate charts when they compare the United States to other countries. And they're always the same countries. Who picks these snowflake places??

A fair comparison to the United States would be Brazil. What's the murder rate in Brazil? Let's see that on the charts. Or how about in Africa?


Also, considering how vastly populated the US is in comparison to these other nations, then it's common sense why these numbers are higher.

[Prometheus]

I always laugh at those murder rate charts when they compare the United States to other countries. And they're always the same countries. Who picks these snowflake places??

A fair comparison to the United States would be Brazil. What's the murder rate in Brazil? Let's see that on the charts. Or how about in Africa?


Also, considering how vastly populated the US is in comparison to these other nations, then it's common sense why these numbers are higher.

What... the f*ck?

How does it make more sense to compare us with Brazil than with another first world country?

[scuzzy]

Baby Boomers have ****ed us hard, once they disintegrate out of the gov't power and business ownership, the US can start to recover.


slowly getting a taste with cannibis legalization and war on drugs downfall

[Patrick Chewing]

What... the f*ck?

How does it make more sense to compare us with Brazil than with another first world country?


What's the difference? If you had a country the size of the United States in terms of population and had the same gun laws, the numbers would be the same.

But to compare the United States to France and Germany? Countries with strict gun laws and vastly lower populations than the United States is misleading and disingenuous.

[Objectivity]

I always laugh at those murder rate charts when they compare the United States to other countries. And they're always the same countries. Who picks these snowflake places??

A fair comparison to the United States would be Brazil. What's the murder rate in Brazil? Let's see that on the charts. Or how about in Africa?


Also, considering how vastly populated the US is in comparison to these other nations, then it's common sense why these numbers are higher.

Buddy, china has 4x the USA population and yet fewer murders overall.

[Patrick Chewing]

Buddy, china has 4x the USA population and yet fewer murders overall.


Are citizens allowed to possess firearms in China just as freely as they are here in the United States?


Because if they were, the murder rate would be higher. It's simple Mathematics.

[scuzzy]

Patrick Chewing doesn't understand what per 100,000 people means

[Overdrive]

I always laugh at those murder rate charts when they compare the United States to other countries. And they're always the same countries. Who picks these snowflake places??

A fair comparison to the United States would be Brazil. What's the murder rate in Brazil? Let's see that on the charts. Or how about in Africa?


Also, considering how vastly populated the US is in comparison to these other nations, then it's common sense why these numbers are higher.

You want the US to be compared to Brazil and Africa? Haha

Make America a shithole again?

[Objectivity]

Are citizens allowed to possess firearms in China just as freely as they are here in the United States?


Because if they were, the murder rate would be higher. It's simple Mathematics.

I don't think so.
I believe they are in Switzerland tho.

[Overdrive]

Are citizens allowed to possess firearms in China just as freely as they are here in the United States?


Because if they were, the murder rate would be higher. It's simple Mathematics.

So you're saying guns kill people, not people? Straying from your agenda?

[Objectivity]

So you're saying guns kill people, not people? Straying from your agenda?

Got'em :lol

[Patrick Chewing]

I don't think so.
I believe they are in Switzerland tho.


So if China had a 2nd Amendment and Chinese citizens could own weapons and an unlimited amount of weapons as we do here in the United States, you're saying that China would still have a lower murder rate? What are you basing this on? Their religion? Are Chinese less violent people? Explain.

[Patrick Chewing]

So you're saying guns kill people, not people? Straying from your agenda?


What is the agenda? I'm saying the United States has a higher murder rate than those aforementioned countries and for two reasons alone.

1. Vastly Higher Population

2. Guns are Legal to Own

[Overdrive]

What is the agenda? I'm saying the United States has a higher murder rate than those aforementioned countries and for two reasons alone.

1. Vastly Higher Population

2. Guns are Legal to Own

In the past you said banning guns wouldn't help. Higher population than China?

[Patrick Chewing]

In the past you said banning guns wouldn't help. Higher population than China?


I never said banning guns would not help. I said banning guns as a knee-jerk reaction to the actions of a few lunatics is one of the worst things that can happen to this country.

Higher population than those European countries listen on that map.

[Overdrive]

I never said banning guns would not help. I said banning guns as a knee-jerk reaction to the actions of a few lunatics is one of the worst things that can happen to this country.

Higher population than those European countries listen on that map.

per 100.000

[Akrazotile]

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4089/HOgfGd.gif (http://imageshack.com/f/pmHOgfGdg)



This chart largely compares America to "peer" countries. However these peer countries range from "more homogeneous" to "far more homogeneous" than America. I wonder what happens if we crunch the numbers for America based solely on its largest demographic?



In 2010 the population of white Americans was 223 million (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn125.html)

In 2012 (closest year I can find data on, the chart in the OP is using 2011 data) whites including hispanics committed 5,000 murders/non-negligent manslaughters. https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/


So let's divide 223M by 100,000. We get 2,230. We now divide the white number of homicides (5k) by that number and we get 2.24 homicides per 100,000 people. That puts American whites still at the head of the pack but far closer to their "peers" in other countries than the above chart would have you believe.

When you add the murders of black offenders to white offenders, it doubles the amount of homicides, yet only adds 13% to the population pool. And that's why you see the homicide per 100,000 jump so much higher when you do so.



Thus we can conclude that America's unique racial dynamic (you can blame whoever you want for this, blacks, whites, jews, it doesnt matter, it isn't the point) is FAR more relevant to America's pace-setting homicide rate than is gun ownership. FAR more relevant. Also keep in mind "white" in American homicide statistics also includes latinos, many of whom may be in America but may not even BE American.

"Guns dont kill people. Melting pots kill people."



But yo, diversity is our strength cuz media told me it

[Objectivity]

This chart largely compares America to "peer" countries. However these peer countries range from "more homogeneous" to "far more homogeneous" than America. I wonder what happens if we crunch the numbers for America based solely on its largest demographic?



In 2010 the population of white Americans was 223 million (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn125.html)

In 2012 (closest year I can find data on, the chart in the OP is using 2011 data) whites including hispanics committed 5,000 murders/non-negligent manslaughters. https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/


So let's divide 223M by 100,000. We get 2,230. We now divide the white number of homicides (5k) by that number and we get 2.24 homicides per 100,000 people. That puts American whites still at the head of the pack but far closer to their "peers" in other countries.

When you add the murders of black offenders to white offenders, it doubles the amount of homicides, yet only adds 13% to the population pool. And that's why you see the homicide per 100,000 jump so much higher when you do so.



Thus we can conclude that America's unique racial dynamic (you can blame whoever you want for this, blacks, whites, jews, it doesnt matter, it isn't the point) is FAR more relevant to America's pace-setting homicide rate than is gun ownership. FAR more relevant. Also keep in mind "white" in America also includes latinos, many of whom may be in America but may not even be American.

"Guns dont kill people. Melting pots kill people."

You have a point, i even posted a chart supporting your exact conclusions.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/H9F30V.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/plH9F30Vj)

[highwhey]

Patrick Chewing doesn't understand what per 100,000 people means
:roll:

[Akrazotile]

Buddy, china has 4x the USA population and yet fewer murders overall.


I dont doubt China having a lower rate murder rate than the US, and perhaps still so even if you adjust for homogeneity. Still worth noting tho is that China isnt the most reliable place to gather statistics from. So they arent an easy country to compare with, and probably why they werent considered a “peer” on the chart.

[tpols]

What... the f*ck?

How does it make more sense to compare us with Brazil than with another first world country?


:roll:

he baffles the mind...

[Akrazotile]

What... the f*ck?

How does it make more sense to compare us with Brazil than with another first world country?


When you consider demographic diversity and income disparity, Brazil probably is a better comparison to the US than Sweden.

[Patrick Chewing]

When you consider demographic diversity and income disparity, Brazil probably is a better comparison to the US than Sweden.


I'm not understanding how these guys are comparing the United States to Sweden from a First World comparison in relation to the topic at hand. And this means what to them? Less homicides? Whether these countries in that graphic were Third World or First World, they do not allow their citizens to carry guns or even purchase guns, so the murder comparisons will always be skewed.

Brazil is the richest country is South America, and yes, it is not a First World type of country, but it has a population similar to the United States. In Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the minimum age for gun ownership being 25. It is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence, and a special permit granting the right to do so is granted to certain groups, such as law enforcement officers (tougher laws than the United States). However, with all that being said, in 2016, Brazil had a record 61,819 murders or on average 198 murders per day, giving a yearly homicide rate of 29.9 per 100,000 population.

[Akrazotile]

I'm not understanding how these guys are comparing the United States to Sweden from a First World comparison in relation to the topic at hand. And this means what to them? Less homicides? Whether these countries in that graphic were Third World or First World, they do not allow their citizens to carry guns or even purchase guns, so the murder comparisons will always be skewed.

Brazil is the richest country is South America, and yes, it is not a First World type of country, but it has a population similar to the United States. In Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the minimum age for gun ownership being 25. It is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence, and a special permit granting the right to do so is granted to certain groups, such as law enforcement officers (tougher laws than the United States). However, with all that being said, in 2016, Brazil had a record 61,819 murders or on average 198 murders per day, giving a yearly homicide rate of 29.9 per 100,000 population.


Yep. And actually the data on gun homicides relative to gun laws and ownership in comparable countries is not highly correlative at all.

Take northern Europe for instance:


More guns in the North, but more gunshot deaths in the Netherlands

Gun ownership is restricted in all three countries and people with criminal records are barred from obtaining firearm licenses. But guns are not uncommon in Finland and Sweden, where hunting is popular, while the Netherlands has the least number of registered guns. But the latter country is also, ironically, where the most people get shot.


Hagstedt says it appears to be more organised crime and for-profit motives behind murders in the Netherlands.

http://sciencenordic.com/alcohol-behind-finlands-high-homicide-rate


Guys like tpols and co. want simple, easy narratives that they've heard in the media, and that they know a large, safe number of people already agree with. It's an intellectual safety net, it makes arguing much easier.

"Guns are the problem!"

Even if it's not that simple. But for simple minded people... the solutions necessarily have to be simple. Because they won't understand complexities.

Gotta keep it simple.

[fiddy]

What is the agenda? I'm saying the United States has a higher murder rate than those aforementioned countries and for two reasons alone.

1. Vastly Higher Population

2. Guns are Legal to Own



jfc dude

[Cleverness]

OP states "America is the greatest country in the world" without defining what that means or what makes a country great in the first place. Then he posts a bunch of charts...

-The first chart is about poverty rates which have declined since 1959. What is your point, OP?

If you want to compare poverty rates in countries, then compare standard of living. OP mentioned China. Well, if you want to compare poverty rates, please include what the poverty line is in the US and what it means to be poor in China.


-Akrazotile already summed up a lesson for you on those homicide/murder charts you posted. Those cherry-picked "peer" countries have tiny homogeneous populations. You might as well compare those places New Hampshire.


-Literacy... I wonder if the big gov't monopoly on public K-12 schools has anything to do with this :rolleyes:


-Health care. The United States has the best healthcare providers (doctors, pharmacists, nurses, dentists, etc.), best cancer / preventative diseases screenings, and most advanced research and equipment.


-Defense spending - What is the point of that chart?



Lastly... please name other countries where a poor kid can come from nothing, work hard, make $200k/yr, and live a wonderful, prosperous life. I know people from other countries who came to the US and did that. Why? They said it's because "America is the greatest country in the world." I happen to agree.

[Prometheus]

This chart largely compares America to "peer" countries. However these peer countries range from "more homogeneous" to "far more homogeneous" than America. I wonder what happens if we crunch the numbers for America based solely on its largest demographic?



In 2010 the population of white Americans was 223 million (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn125.html)

In 2012 (closest year I can find data on, the chart in the OP is using 2011 data) whites including hispanics committed 5,000 murders/non-negligent manslaughters. https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/


So let's divide 223M by 100,000. We get 2,230. We now divide the white number of homicides (5k) by that number and we get 2.24 homicides per 100,000 people. That puts American whites still at the head of the pack but far closer to their "peers" in other countries than the above chart would have you believe.

When you add the murders of black offenders to white offenders, it doubles the amount of homicides, yet only adds 13% to the population pool. And that's why you see the homicide per 100,000 jump so much higher when you do so.



Thus we can conclude that America's unique racial dynamic (you can blame whoever you want for this, blacks, whites, jews, it doesnt matter, it isn't the point) is FAR more relevant to America's pace-setting homicide rate than is gun ownership. FAR more relevant. Also keep in mind "white" in American homicide statistics also includes latinos, many of whom may be in America but may not even BE American.

"Guns dont kill people. Melting pots kill people."



But yo, diversity is our strength cuz media told me it

This is actually a fantastic point, and one which I have been making with my family recently.

The USA trails a lot of other first world nations in HDI stats, and for the most part those stats are skewed by the poor conditions of most minority communities across the country.

My mother sees we have high murder rates. She thinks that means we should have strict gun laws - I think it means we should have better education.

[Akrazotile]

OP states "America is the greatest country in the world" without defining what that means or what makes a country great in the first place. Then he posts a bunch of charts...

-The first chart is about poverty rates which have declined since 1959. What is your point, OP?

If you want to compare poverty rates in countries, then compare standard of living. OP mentioned China. Well, if you want to compare poverty rates, please include what the poverty line is in the US and what it means to be poor in China.


-Akrazotile already summed up a lesson for you on those homicide/murder charts you posted. Those cherry-picked "peer" countries have tiny homogeneous populations. You might as well compare those places New Hampshire.


-Literacy... I wonder if the big gov't monopoly on public K-12 schools has anything to do with this :rolleyes:


-Health care. The United States has the best healthcare providers (doctors, pharmacists, nurses, dentists, etc.), best cancer / preventative diseases screenings, and most advanced research and equipment.


-Defense spending - What is the point of that chart?



Lastly... please name other countries where a poor kid can come from nothing, work hard, make $200k/yr, and live a wonderful, prosperous life. I know people from other countries who came to the US and did that. Why? They said it's because "America is the greatest country in the world." I happen to agree.


Yep. And another point worth mentioning is that it wasnt even specified “greatest country to LIVE IN.” That could be a much closer discussion and more dependent on personal preferences.

But when you take overall quality of life and ADD America’s worldwide contributions in technology, entertainment, defense, agriculture, etc... There is no country the world would miss more BY FAR if it disappeared.

That’s why WE DA BESS.

[TheMan]

I always laugh at those murder rate charts when they compare the United States to other countries. And they're always the same countries. Who picks these snowflake places??

A fair comparison to the United States would be Brazil. What's the murder rate in Brazil? Let's see that on the charts. Or how about in Africa?


Also, considering how vastly populated the US is in comparison to these other nations, then it's common sense why these numbers are higher.
:facepalm

[kennethgriffen]

the only things the united states is #1 in is

- military
- entertainment
- sports


for quality of life theres a ton of other countries way ahead

[HeatFanSince88]

Now compare America to countries with similar demographic percentages of blacks and see where it measures up.

[Long Duck Dong]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YywKRCDhKUgWti/giphy.gif

[Patrick Chewing]

:facepalm


What are you guys not getting about my comparison?

[Andrei89]

What's the difference? If you had a country the size of the United States in terms of population and had the same gun laws, the numbers would be the same.

But to compare the United States to France and Germany? Countries with strict gun laws and vastly lower populations than the United States is misleading and disingenuous.

Per 100.000 means that if the Netherlands had the population of the US theh would still have 4 times less murders.

[Andrei89]

What are you guys not getting about my comparison?

Are you serious dude?

You keep talking about how

[Patrick Chewing]

Per 100.000 means that if the Netherlands had the population of the US theh would still have 4 times less murders.


And again I reiterate, these countries have different gun laws than here in the United States. You are not allowed to carry a weapon in the Netherlands. Only the police can carry a weapon.

So they can have two or three times the population of the United States, it still would probably have less murders.

The correct comparison is to a country that has the exact same population with the exact or at least very similar interpretation of gun laws.

The Netherlands?? What a joke! :oldlol:

[fiddy]

And again I reiterate, these countries have different gun laws than here in the United States. You are not allowed to carry a weapon in the Netherlands. Only the police can carry a weapon.

So they can have two or three times the population of the United States, it still would probably have less murders.

The correct comparison is to a country that has the exact same population with the exact or at least very similar interpretation of gun laws.

The Netherlands?? What a joke! :oldlol:
Oh, the irony.
PS: I hope you're trolling.

[rufuspaul]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Yep. And another point worth mentioning is that it wasnt even specified

[Akrazotile]

Are you serious dude?

You keep talking about how “most vastly populated US is” and still don’t realize that has nothing to do with it.

:facepalm


It’s not a big deal.

People frequently cite stats on “gunshot deaths” in the US to push an agenda about violence, without pointing out most of those are suicides. There are tons of disingenuous arguments around these debates, when you look at the chart in the OP real quick you might not see the small “per 100,000 people” qualifier and could easily assume the chart is showing gross total. Since that’s often the kind of convolution people are used to seeing with these things.

In any case, it’s still quite fair to point out that our population size - AND our geographic size - in comparison to the countries listed invalidates the idea of calling them our “peers.” It’s much easier to keep legal and illegal weapons accounted for when your entire national border is the size of south dakota. Think about how much surface area on land and sea we have to account for. Think about how many people come and go on a daily basis.

These considerations make law enforcement a much greater challenge, and that definitely is a factor in a country’s safety statistics. Not saying it’s the predominant factor, but that, among other factors, makes our situation different. Pointing to Switzerland and saying “the US should operate just like they do!!! :hammerhead: “

It’s embarrassing. It’s freshman-at-community-college type try harding.

[TheMan]

Not to mention that the quality of life enjoyed by Western Europe is due in large part to the military protection provided by the good ole US of A.
How so?

The US military keeping hordes of Mongols at bay or what :confusedshrug:

[rufuspaul]

How so?

The US military keeping hordes of Mongols at bay or what :confusedshrug:


Historically, defeating the Nazis, keeping the Russians at bay, etc.

[Akrazotile]

How so?

The US military keeping hordes of Mongols at bay or what :confusedshrug:


Keeps them from fighting each other. Having a top dog keeps everyone else in line. Hobbes theory of Leviathan.

We keep the peace. And we can continue to do so while eliminating waste and corruption in our military processes..

It

[Akrazotile]

Historically, defeating the Nazis, keeping the Russians at bay, etc.


Exactly. The US had to squash the beef twice, culminating in a nuclear bomb and Hiroshimo and Nagasaki.

Nobody in the developed world has tried to get cute since.

[TheMan]

Historically, defeating the Nazis, keeping the Russians at bay, etc.
Trump supporters say the Russians are our BFF :confusedshrug:

So basically you're admitting that if the US didn't spend so much on its bloated Military Industrial Complex, the US standard of living might be comparable to the top countries....hmmm food for thought.

[rufuspaul]

Trump supporters say the Russians are our BFF :confusedshrug:

So basically you're admitting that if the US didn't spend so much on its bloated Military Industrial Complex, the US standard of living might be comparable to the top countries....hmmm food for thought.

Um, no. I'm saying if the U.S. military hadn't kept the Russians out of Europe during the cold war their standard of living would not be what it is today.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

I am grateful to live in America where...

- I have access to clean water and food of all types
- I meet people with very good morals and hospitable manners
- My family doesn't experience that much hostility
- Animals are treated very well
- The poor have access to welfare systems to get back on their feat
- There is opportunity for social mobility
- There are laws and rules regulating things like business and traffic and security
- Humans have rights
- There are excellent educational facilities
- There is much beauty---from the ravines to the mountains and plains and forests and deserts
- There are people of all kinds to meet and to share with
- There is not too much population density nor too little
- Wi-fi access is abundant
- Freedom of religion
- Charity and gratitude are beloved
- and many more.

May Allah continue to bless America (and the entire world) and protect mankind from destruction.

[MaxFly]

My mother sees we have high murder rates. She thinks that means we should have strict gun laws - I think it means we should have better education.

:applause: Agreed... much of this is a function of poverty and a lack of economic mobility resulting from poor education. There's no simple panacea.

[Objectivity]

Not to mention that the quality of life enjoyed by Western Europe is due in large part to the military protection provided by the good ole US of A.

:lol

Your run of the mill murican sheep, ladies and gentlemen :applause:

[Objectivity]

Historically, defeating the Nazis, keeping the Russians at bay, etc.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Objectivity]

Murica had little to no part in defeating the nazis, when murica arrived at d day the war was over.

USSR saved the europe from nazis, you can say murica was the lesser evil and stopped a possible soviet domination of europe but not much else.

[Objectivity]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]It

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

:applause: Agreed... much of this is a function of poverty and a lack of economic mobility resulting from poor education. There's no simple panacea.

What are some educational lessons one can impart in inner-city communities to foster a more peaceful, prosperous mentality among its citizens?

[Prometheus]

What are some educational lessons one can impart in inner-city communities to foster a more peaceful, prosperous mentality among its citizens?

I'm not sure it's a case of any particular lesson being crucial in helping create a more peaceful culture. I think it has more to do with what kind of environment exists when education is stronger.

When you have good education, it gets woven into the social fabric that there are opportunities. Different ways to live life. When you don't have good education, and your neighborhood is overrun by crime, everyone is poor, it is a bleak existence.

But beyond my personal speculation, isn't it standard theory on demographic shifts that education curbs things like crime, super high birth rates, and other negative conditions of developing countries?

[tpols]

Murica had little to no part in defeating the nazis, when murica arrived at d day the war was over.

USSR saved the europe from nazis, you can say murica was the lesser evil and stopped a possible soviet domination of europe but not much else.


if germany just took europe and played defense i reckon they'd have a much larger lot of land right now.

[Prometheus]

if germany just took europe and played defense i reckon they'd have a much larger lot of land right now.

Lebensraum

[imdaman99]

And what fantastic country do you represent, OP?

[Long Duck Dong]

Murica had little to no part in defeating the nazis, when murica arrived at d day the war was over.

USSR saved the europe from nazis, you can say murica was the lesser evil and stopped a possible soviet domination of europe but not much else.

The Russians weren't even fighting an offensive battle to "save Europe" at first. They were literally fighting for their lives, compared to the US who was fighting an offensive war on 2 fronts. The weather and the allies making gains on the western front are the only reason Russia itself wasn't annihilated by Hitler, let alone saving anybody. Opportunists they were, a formidable, intelligent military fighting force they were not.

[scuzzy]

US dominance in the Pacific Theater during WW2 stopped the world from complete communism rule

If Russia took Japan which they dearly wanted, they would've invaded Phillipines and eventually Australia.

Stalin's hands were just as bloody as Hitlers, he just did his dirt over a longer stretch

Read up on some of the atrocities Russian 'liberaters' were doing post war. Entire German civilian towns were doing mass suicides to escape civilian tourture and rape. Japan were even worse to the Chinese and POW's.

Some sick ****s were in power during the 30's-40's. But without that war we would have nearly the tech and medicine we have today

[tpols]

Lebensraum


i looked at the map... they shouldve never went into desolate northern asia. got greedy.

[Prometheus]

i looked at the map... they shouldve never went into desolate northern asia. got greedy.

They should have went all-in on a campaign to conquer UK. It would have been slow. But if they accomplished that first, they could have succeeded against Russia.

Thank god Hitler was an idiot.

[Prometheus]

Murica had little to no part in defeating the nazis, when murica arrived at d day the war was over.

USSR saved the europe from nazis, you can say murica was the lesser evil and stopped a possible soviet domination of europe but not much else.

Uh...

We gave them all their heavy arms. They would have been overrun by the Nazis without the USA war industry.

You are wrong.

[Prometheus]

US dominance in the Pacific Theater during WW2 stopped the world from complete communism rule

If Russia took Japan which they dearly wanted, they would've invaded Phillipines and eventually Australia.

Stalin's hands were just as bloody as Hitlers, he just did his dirt over a longer stretch

Read up on some of the atrocities Russian 'liberaters' were doing post war. Entire German civilian towns were doing mass suicides to escape civilian tourture and rape. Japan were even worse to the Chinese and POW's.

Some sick ****s were in power during the 30's-40's. But without that war we would have nearly the tech and medicine we have today

imho Stalin was even worse than Hitler. He was responsible for at least as many brutal deaths, and none of it was even out of any passionately held belief. He was just a psychopath whose desire for power made killing millions of people a convenient thing.

I'm not saying Hitler should be applauded for his beliefs... they were obviously very twisted and evil... I just think there's something to be said in terms of a comparison. A guy who believes he needs to kill millions for the good of the world is insane. But I still find him a little more human than someone who will kill millions simply because it tightens his control over them. It's like a poisoned soul vs. someone without a soul.

[Norcaliblunt]

America. No place I