Do America actually need a wall?

[iamgine]

Regardless of what agendas these politicians might have in wanting the wall built or not built, do you personally think America need a wall?

I have seen both arguments and they're basically this:

For: It works and the benefit is sufficient to justify the cost.

Against: It doesn't work or the benefit is insufficient to justify the cost.

[diamenz]

no. we don't need to go billions of more $ into debt just for a self-serving political punchline. right, fiscal conservatives?

[CelticBaller]

The money spent on the wall could be spent on something more productive

Border patrol is probably less expensive and more effective

[macmac]

What

[Rocket]

Simple answer is yes.

[bladefd]

Nope. It won't solve or even solve 30% of the illegal immigration issue. Folks will simply shift patterns to crossing across in oceans or more in visa overstays. You will dent illegal immigration for 2 years tops. Probably even less. People are not stupid - it's a HUGE business to get people across. They will evolve their patterns very very quickly to keep their business going.

Instead take the 2 billion and fix fencing already in place, look for obvious holes where you can add fencing along with multiple layers of ubarbed wire, stick in more sensors across the border, use automated drones to continuously keep scanning for crossers, do more scout runs with armed border patrol, build more barracks at smaller intervals to spread out border patrol. Use more technology and brains.

[kennethgriffen]

a wall isnt perfect. nothing is. but its better than nothing and trump was elected by the people because he promised a wall.. so for the dems to block something the people want is kinda ****ed up if you ask me

[scuzzy]

Everyone keeps talking about safe borders


Noones talking about caging America in


This mf'r gonna us our tax dollar to imprison us


Those 50 cal motion sensor turrets won't be pointing at them, it'll be pointed at us


Who tf tries pulling off an Executive Order on some wack shit like this? :oldlol:

[diamenz]

a wall isnt perfect. nothing is. but its better than nothing and trump was elected by the people because he promised a wall.. so for the dems to block something the people want is kinda ****ed up if you ask me

25% of the country is FOR the wall.

[kennethgriffen]

25% of the country is FOR the wall.


well then that other 75% shoulda got out and voted

[Draz]

You guys understand visa overstayers are the highest percentage right

[Objectivity]

The world needs a wall around murica.

[tpols]

[QUOTE=macmac]What

[Patrick Chewing]

A wall is a step in the right direction of actually doing something about illegal immigration.

[SomeBlackDude]

i'm seeing the emperor is tryna declare a national state of emergency to try to get da wall built? this dude really painted himself into a corner with this one. :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Nope. It won't solve or even solve 30% of the illegal immigration issue. Folks will simply shift patterns to crossing across in oceans or more in visa overstays.
Well, we

[NumberSix]

You guys understand visa overstayers are the highest percentage right
They’re not. Visa overstays account for roughly 40%. The other 60% are illegal entry.

[Norcaliblunt]

If you truly believe in capitalism, and understand the beauty of the free market, you have to be against the wall. Using the state to artificially control immigration and who can enter the labor pool is like any other economic regulation. It drives up prices and costs the tax payers tons of money. There must be an open border and labor market, allowing for the sort of competition capitalism is based on. Which will calibrate wages to their natural levels and help businesses run much more efficiently.

[SomeBlackDude]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Well, we

[NumberSix]

If you truly believe in capitalism, and understand the beauty of the free market, you have to be against the wall. Using the state to control immigration and who can enter the labor pool is like any other economic regulation. It drives up prices and costs the tax payers tons of money. There must be an open border and market for labor allowing the sort of competition capitalism is based on which will calibrate wages to their natural levels and help businesses run much more efficiently.
You know what the first thing the British Empire did was after banning slavery in their colonies?

Take a place like Jamaica. You

[rufuspaul]

You know what Trump should do is just get on Twitter and tell everyone we already built the wall. It's the greatest wall ever and Mexico paid for it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

We need to deter criminals terrorists smugglers and whatever else. A wall would stop some of that. We just have to convince our friends in Mexico that it will do enough good to justify spending over 5 billion dollars and Trump's promise will be filled.

[Kblaze8855]

a wall isnt perfect. nothing is. but its better than nothing and trump was elected by the people because he promised a wall.. so for the dems to block something the people want is kinda ****ed up if you ask me


If enough people wanted it they would have the votes in Congress. They don’t.

This is how it’s supposed to work.

The president isn’t as powerful as you seem to think nor does he have the support.

The leader is always apathy....and second? Democrats usually. Republicans have received more votes in a presidential election once in 30 years. 2004. In 2018 democrats got 9 million more votes....with the border issue being front and center. By votes? They had their best outing relative to Republicans since the watergate scandal.

But there is hardly a mandate either way.

It isn’t often enough of the country goes either way to make these things easy.

Democrats had 60 votes in the senate and a 255 to 179 lead in the house in 2009 and shit was still difficult.

It’s hard to pass anything the other side doesn’t want without an overwhelmingly dominant election night and Trump has never had one.

[Ben Simmons 25]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXhx9wIbio

[SomeBlackDude]

i'm seeing the emperor is tryna declare a national state of emergency to try to get da wall built? this dude really painted himself into a corner with this one. :oldlol:

lol


Donald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTrump

I am pleased to inform you that I will Address the Nation on the Humanitarian and National Security crisis on our Southern Border. Tuesday night at 9:00 P.M. Eastern.

all the major networks have cleared their 9pm broadcast slots.

martial law's finally incoming to 'murrica. time to exercise that 2nd amendment freedom. get your milita ready.

https://i.postimg.cc/vB6cB7sT/BS-TREAD-TEMP-1-43696-1291495952.png

what a time. :bowdown:

[Kblaze8855]

Id imagine he declares an emergency to divert funds to build....then we see how many rounds the fight lasts in court after a judge stops him and we get new "A judge shouldnt be able to stop a president!" arguments from people who dont know how America was designed. I wonder how ignoring judges using emergency powers works in 2019. Lincoln got away with it....but it was a literal war.

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]They

[Kblaze8855]

Now that Canada doesnt require a visa to go there from mexico apparently people just fly there and walk across in Vermont.

There are places one neighborhood is split by the border. Im sure terrorists are unaware.

[NumberSix]

And those 60% are split into multiple ways of entry

-boats/cargo ships, wall does nothing
-hidden in vehicles for border crossing, wall does nothing
-sneaking in small planes for smuggling, wall does nothing
-paying for access through tunnel underneath the border, wall does nothing
-walking across border

4 out of 5 ways unaffected by wall
Yes, all those poor Mexicans sneaking in aboard their private jets and boats.

[bladefd]

Yes, all those poor Mexicans sneaking in aboard their private jets and boats.

More like single engine Cessna and small boats run by smuggling companies whose business is getting people across.

[Kblaze8855]

The security risk doesnt come from poor mexicans. At least that isnt who the villian is supposed to be when republicans want to seem less hateful. Its cartels, terrorist, and so on. People who hardly lack for funding.

Though for the record...poor people do come in by boat. Always have. Those cubans floating by and arriving barely alive are hardly rich. Read some of the articles on the boats mexican call "pangas". They catch thousands. They caught 3 times as many in 2010 as in 2006. Use went through the roof. Think they catch most of them?

They drop loads of 25-40 people off and dip before anyone knows they are there.

[Facepalm]

You guys know that the Rio Grand river runs a along a significant part of our border right? You also know that the river floods regularly right? So we would have to build this wall a significant distance away from the river. Are we just going to cede the river to Mexico? Are we just going to give up US territory to them? You know that the Federal Government doesn't own all the land along the border right? Are we going to seize land from US property owners to build this wall?

[QUOTE]The land along the Rio Grande is perhaps the trickiest stretch of new wall to build. The river winds for 350 miles, and with it the border, a floodplain where construction is restricted by water treaties with Mexico. Residents and businesses own property south of existing border barriers, land that

[Facepalm]

lol



all the major networks have cleared their 9pm broadcast slots.

martial law's finally incoming to 'murrica. time to exercise that 2nd amendment freedom. get your milita ready.

https://i.postimg.cc/vB6cB7sT/BS-TREAD-TEMP-1-43696-1291495952.png

what a time. :bowdown:
Remember when all the conservatards were up in arms because some military exercises were being held in Texas during the Obama administration? Imagine their reaction if he had sent the military to the border, declared a state of emergency, seize private lands and tried to bypass Congress to build this boondoggle :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Facepalm]

A wall is a step in the right direction of actually doing something about illegal immigration.

Will a wall deter some? Sure. Is it worth the cost/benefit ratio? Nope.


The Great Wall of China didn't work. Hadrian's Wall didn't work. Trump's wall won't work either.

[andgar923]

Why is he so adamant on this wall?

That

[Facepalm]

Why is he so adamant on this wall?

That’s what people should be asking.

As usual, follow the money.
Also because he's stupid and egotistical




But Trump's "wall" fixation actually began as little more than "a memory trick for an undisciplined candidate," Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Peter Baker report at The New York Times.

As Mr. Trump began exploring a presidential run in 2014, his political advisers landed on the idea of a border wall as a mnemonic device of sorts, a way to make sure their candidate — who hated reading from a script but loved boasting about himself and his talents as a builder — would remember to talk about getting tough on immigration. [The New York Times]

[QUOTE]
George Conway
@gtconway3d
Replying to @gtconway3d
In other words—the “wall” was originally cooked up as a trick to use the candidate’s narcissism (“I am the greatest builder!”)to get him to talk about immigration policy.

Virtually *everything* about this man and his “presidency” can be understood through his narcissism.

26K
8:49 PM - Jan 5, 2019

[Patrick Chewing]

[QUOTE=andgar923]Why is he so adamant on this wall?

That

[diamenz]

Yes, all those poor Mexicans sneaking in aboard their private jets and boats.

are u for or against building this 'wall'? aren't u a fiscal conservative? u and i both know that if it does gets built, we're footing the bill. is the difference it will make really worth spending the billions of dollars? but hey what's another few billion to add on to the trllions, huh.

[diamenz]

What are you saying? That there's a financial benefit to Trump for building this wall?


Unless the Mexico side of the wall will have advertising for his hotels and casinos, then I don't see how Trump benefits one way or the other.

his benefit is fulfilling his #1 campaign promise. that by itself is more important than any financial gain for him because it makes him look good.

[Patrick Chewing]

are u for or against building this 'wall'? aren't u a fiscal conservative? u and i both know that if it does gets built, we're footing the bill. is the difference it will make really worth spending the billions of dollars? but hey what's another few billion to add on to the trllions, huh.



This is such a pathetic argument. The government has spent money, or rather wasted money on way more egregious things than building a wall for national security.


A 5 Billion Dollar wall costs the U.S. taxpayer (roughly 150 million Americans) around $33 and change.

Yeah, I'll gladly put up $33 for better border security.

[Facepalm]

This is such a pathetic argument. The government has spent money, or rather wasted money on way more egregious things than building a wall for national security.


A 5 Billion Dollar wall costs the U.S. taxpayer (roughly 150 million Americans) around $33 and change.

Yeah, I'll gladly put up $33 for better border security.
I'd rather put that money towards our crumbling infrastructure.

[Patrick Chewing]

I'd rather put that money towards our crumbling infrastructure.


Well, looks like both parties will be addressing that this year so we can celebrate to that.

[Facepalm]

And those 60% are split into multiple ways of entry

-boats/cargo ships, wall does nothing
-hidden in vehicles for border crossing, wall does nothing
-sneaking in small planes for smuggling, wall does nothing
-paying for access through tunnel underneath the border, wall does nothing
-walking across border

4 out of 5 ways unaffected by wall
Not only that, but a wall won't stop drugs either


Here’s another misconception. According to a 2015 report by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, 95 percent of drugs enter the United States via container ships or other vessels. So in reality, a wall is going to do absolutely nothing to stop drug trafficking.

Via Fox news
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trumps-border-wall-how-much-it-will-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician

[NumberSix]

are u for or against building this 'wall'? aren't u a fiscal conservative? u and i both know that if it does gets built, we're footing the bill. is the difference it will make really worth spending the billions of dollars? but hey what's another few billion to add on to the trllions, huh.
You think it doesn’t cost money to have millions of people illegally? They don’t use the roads? They don’t send their kids to the schools? They don’t use the courts or the police? Each year illegals send $25 billion to their families in other countries. $25 billion they probably didn’t pay taxes on in the first place.

You’re out of your mind if you believe leaving the border open will cost less than $5 billion.

[sammichoffate]

Wasn't this proposed like 13 years ago or something?

[Facepalm]

Well, looks like both parties will be addressing that this year so we can celebrate to that.
Glad both sides can finally agree on something. It's straight up embarrassing when when you compare a major American airport like LAX to Singapore, Dubai, or HK. Even the airline experience is world's better. I never take international trips on an American airline.

In Japan, if the train is late by a few seconds it's a major scandal. Meanwhile in NYC long delays are a part of life.

[andgar923]

The wall won't stop shit and every expert knows it, even within his own organization. But that's not the biggest issue. It's the COST of the wall that's the main issue. A cost that will be a useless waste of time money and energy that could be used elsewhere. And even then, the cost proposed is a conservative estimate with other estimates making it much more expensive.

But I think all of the critics are wrong when they say the wall won't work.

The wall will work.

It will make the US so broke that immigrants and drug dealers won't even want to waste their time coming over. The US will resemble one of the 'shit hole countries' that Trump was referring to.

[bladefd]

This is such a pathetic argument. The government has spent money, or rather wasted money on way more egregious things than building a wall for national security.


A 5 Billion Dollar wall costs the U.S. taxpayer (roughly 150 million Americans) around $33 and change.

Yeah, I'll gladly put up $33 for better border security.

:roll:

The $5 billion is just a start that pays for less than 200 miles of the wall. Raise that up to $30 billion minimum for full wall that lil Donny wants, and that's not even including maintenance costs. You give lil Donny that $5 billion amount, and he comes back for $10 billion in September of this year in next budget fight.

[Kblaze8855]

Thats perhaps the oddest thing. People fighting it out like the Wall actually costs 5 billion dollars. All this nonsense for 10% of the border while not even getting to the real problem....what to do about the river and the property people own...that they have already said they wont give up for a wall.

This is gonna come down to the government stealing citizens property to put a wall they dont want through it.....I dont know how you spin that positive.

[Kblaze8855]

I always want to see them get the 5 just to see people celebrate like "We got the wall!" and find out its virtually nothing. A lot of these people actually believe a wall across all that land costs 5 billion.

[bladefd]

Thats perhaps the oddest thing. People fighting it out like the Wall actually costs 5 billion dollars. All this nonsense for 10% of the border while not even getting to the real problem....what to do about the river and the property people own...that they have already said they wont give up for a wall.

This is gonna come down to the government stealing citizens property to put a wall they dont want through it.....I dont know how you spin that positive.

Yeah, $30 billion is just for the full wall itself. It doesn't even include the cost of compensating the owners for taking their land to make room for the wall. If the owners refuse to give up their land for the wall, then it goes to the courts.. Litigation means lawyers, which costs money..

[Norcaliblunt]

The whole thing is just ****ing stupid.

[NumberSix]

Yeah, $30 billion is just for the full wall itself. It doesn't even include the cost of compensating the owners for taking their land to make room for the wall. If the owners refuse to give up their land for the wall, then it goes to the courts.. Litigation means lawyers, which costs money..
Dude, you can build an entire skyscraper for less than $1 billion.

[diamenz]

You think it doesn’t cost money to have millions of people illegally? They don’t use the roads? They don’t send their kids to the schools? They don’t use the courts or the police? Each year illegals send $25 billion to their families in other countries. $25 billion they probably didn’t pay taxes on in the first place.

You’re out of your mind if you believe leaving the border open will cost less than $5 billion.

the border is not 'open' - let's not be silly.

but, right - u bring up good points. the question is whether the cost of this wall and it's effectiveness will be worth any benefit that it brings in the long run CONSIDERING how deep into debt that we already are. like i said, if this gets built WE are paying for it.

...i just wanted to know, because i always got the impression that u were a fiscal conservative. i'm taking away that you're FOR this wall that WE'RE paying for.

[diamenz]

I'd rather put that money towards our crumbling infrastructure.

one of bernie's top campaign slogans. man, that guy sure is out there, isn't he.

[bladefd]

Dude, you can build an entire skyscraper for less than $1 billion.

The border is around 2,000 miles long, and it's not in straight line either. It meanders to and fro, and elevates up and down a bit.. A skyscraper should absolutely cost much less than a 2,000 mile wall

[Patrick Chewing]

one of bernie's top campaign slogans. man, that guy sure is out there, isn't he.


Trump mentioned that too during his campaign.

[Patrick Chewing]

This is gonna come down to the government stealing citizens property to put a wall they dont want through it.....I dont know how you spin that positive.


Where do you come up with this conclusion??


And why is everything so black and white and negative with you people?

[Facepalm]

This is such a pathetic argument. The government has spent money, or rather wasted money on way more egregious things than building a wall for national security.


A 5 Billion Dollar wall costs the U.S. taxpayer (roughly 150 million Americans) around $33 and change.

Yeah, I'll gladly put up $33 for better border security.


A majority of Americans want the wall right? Let's take out those unpatriotic Leeberuls out of the equation and say it's $50 per person instead of $33. We should have the funding in no time once all red blooded Americans chip in!! Glad to see you're willing to do your part Chew

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Only $4,980,000,000 left to go!!!

https://images.indianexpress.com/2019/01/dt_759_twt.jpg

[Facepalm]

Where do you come up with this conclusion??


And why is everything so black and white and negative with you people?


Try reading an article that's not Fox news







Also..


https://media1.tenor.com/images/3a6162b07806f8b9deada6cbafcb9cfa/tenor.gif

[Patrick Chewing]

Try reading an article that's not Fox news








Show me an article where eminent domain now enters the equation.

[diamenz]

Trump mentioned that too during his campaign.

true. wish he would push democrats about it more.

[Facepalm]

Show me an article where eminent domain now enters the equation.
Are you too dumb to google?

President Trump recently announced he could invoke national emergency powers to divert military funds to build his long-promised border wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, since Congress won’t give him $5 billion in funding. He said he would grab the land “under the military version” of eminent domain “fairly quickly” — the Fifth Amendment power to seize private property for a public use upon just compensation.

But Trump’s threat of using the military to acquire land for a massive federal project is nothing new or extraordinary. What is extraordinary, however, is Trump’s assertion that he can unilaterally order the military to build the wall, including seizing land, by declaring a national emergency without statutory authorization, let alone evidence of a legitimate emergency.

Let’s start with the basic question. Can the military use eminent domain to seize private land along the border for Trump’s wall? Yes, of course. The United States has a long tradition of authorizing the military to seize private land for a federal project.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/424195-trumps-militarized-land-seizure-for-border-wall-is-more-complicated-than

[NumberSix]

the border is not 'open' - let's not be silly.

but, right - u bring up good points. the question is whether the cost of this wall and it's effectiveness will be worth any benefit that it brings in the long run CONSIDERING how deep into debt that we already are. like i said, if this gets built WE are paying for it.

...i just wanted to know, because i always got the impression that u were a fiscal conservative. i'm taking away that you're FOR this wall that WE'RE paying for.
I think not having a wall will cost more money than having it. The people that the wall prevents from entering illegally would cost a lot more than what it would cost to put a wall up.

[Facepalm]

I think not having a wall will cost more money than having it. The people that the wall prevents from entering illegally would cost a lot more than what it would cost to put a wall up.
Nah, it won't

[QUOTE]Donald Trump can

[Kblaze8855]

Where do you come up with this conclusion??


And why is everything so black and white and negative with you people?


As I understand it....and feel free to correct anything...

The river essentially being the border causes problems. You can

[Facepalm]

true. wish he would push democrats about it more.
"Fix that sewer!" isn't as catchy as "Build that wall!"

[diamenz]

I think not having a wall will cost more money than having it. The people that the wall prevents from entering illegally would cost a lot more than what it would cost to put a wall up.

fair enough, man.

[Patrick Chewing]

The wall won't stop shit and every expert knows it, even within his own organization. But that's not the biggest issue. It's the COST of the wall that's the main issue. A cost that will be a useless waste of time money and energy that could be used elsewhere. And even then, the cost proposed is a conservative estimate with other estimates making it much more expensive.

But I think all of the critics are wrong when they say the wall won't work.

The wall will work.

It will make the US so broke that immigrants and drug dealers won't even want to waste their time coming over. The US will resemble one of the 'shit hole countries' that Trump was referring to.


The wall will make the US so broke?? Dude, what kind of drugs do you take??? :oldlol:

Former Border Patrol Chief Under Obama Says Walls ‘Absolutely Work’ (https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/01/07/obama-era-border-patrol-chief-mark-morgan-says-border-walls-work)

[Jasper]

a wall isnt perfect. nothing is. but its better than nothing and trump was elected by the people because he promised a wall.. so for the dems to block something the people want is kinda ****ed up if you ask me
on a political stand point , this is spot on.

my opinion we need it.
Literally thousands of people are migrating here illegally and unless our world is free and at peace , it can not happen.
our world society is not structured that way , so visa's are required besides passports.
I am in favor of a wall that runs the length of the border , not just part way.
Do it right.

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]As I understand it....and feel free to correct anything...

The river essentially being the border causes problems. You can

[Rolando]

There have been studies done on the costs and feasability of a border wall. Most seem to have been done by organizations other than the government.

Here's a website with some government sources on various studies, mostly conducted around 2007-2008. https://law.utexas.edu/humanrights/borderwall/maps/

I would like to see the government do a comprehensive study on not only the costs of the wall but also the effectiveness. This is a huge undertaking.

It is understandable why there's resistance to such a massive project. My suggestion is: Do a proper study. Let the people vote on it.

[Prometheus]

Our best bet would be to invade Mexico and partition it into the 51st through 82nd states of the USA.

[Kblaze8855]

Regarding this, don't the government has the right to purchase your land at fair market value? Don't this happen all the time with expressway/railroad/city expansion all over the world? Sucks for the owners but this is routine everyday stuff.

Of course governments steal land and ruin peoples lives and business to do it. But it hurts the argument that the border people want it....

Not that Trump cares if what he says is true....or that his supports look into it to see.

There are people with border land who had it in their family since Texas was Spain. They have people doing surveys through private land and people are pissed off. There are border areas that will end up in what they call no mans land....between the fence/wall and the border....with no access to it but guard entrances miles away. All the border states but texas have al ot of federal land. Texas has almost none.

A lot of people are gonna get their land stolen.....quite a few will end up on tv.

Theres a libertarian official in New Mexico who noticed they started setting up fencing on state owned land illegally. He claimed he would sell it on the states behalf to raise money for public schools but the auction prices would be higher than the government pays.

Youre gonna see these stories for years. The lawsuits will be extensive.

Just wait till trump tells us what hes planing tonight. Lawyers are gonna mobilize all over the southwest and judges will be calling a halt to shit by like.....march.

There are over 5000 parcels of private owned land that would be affected....just in texas. More than 300 are already involved in lawsuits against the feds.

This is gonna get ugly and expensive. And I suspect Trump will go right ahead pretending the people on the border want it the most. Much like claims that people forced to work without pay want the shutdown to continue....because people love not paying their bills.

[Kblaze8855]

Our best bet would be to invade Mexico and partition it into the 51st through 82nd states of the USA.


Already had mexico. Decided only the parts we took were of use.

A ****up in retrospect. Could have made them subjects but not citizens but there was a movement to prevent any American empire.

[rufuspaul]

Do a proper study. Let the people vote on it.


64 million people already voted for it.

[Kblaze8855]

Following that line of thinking doesn

[Prometheus]

Already had mexico. Decided only the parts we took were of use.

A ****up in retrospect. Could have made them subjects but not citizens but there was a movement to prevent any American empire.

It's never too late to make things right.

If I see a candidate who tells me we will wage a war for North American unification and invade both Mexico and Canada, I will vote for them. 325mil isn't enough people, I want a country with a nice fat half-billion.

[SomeBlackDude]

CNN: Source close to President Trump says POTUS has been told a national emergency declaration "probably won't work"

this fool called for a public address before his latest half baked idea was vetted.

now we watch as he stalls for time on live tv and tries not to publicly humiliate himself further.

[NumberSix]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Following that line of thinking doesn

[TheMan]

Trump said a whole lotta nuthing.

[Kblaze8855]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]

[bladefd]

I will just post this here..


As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

The study also finds that the undocumented population from Mexico fell by almost 400,000 people in 2017 and that since 2010, the number of undocumented from that country fell by 1.3 million.

"We have made tremendous progress since the year 2000 in reducing undocumented immigration into this country," the study's author, CMS senior fellow Robert Warren, told NPR.

Warren was the director of statistics at the Immigration and Naturalization Service from 1986 to 1995. He said that both the Bush and Obama administrations had roughly doubled the size of the Border Patrol and that the country has seen results.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

[Derka]

I'd give him $10 billion if he was hiring more Border Patrol agents and increasing patrols in more desolate areas of the border. I'd be all for deeper ground sensors that seek out tunnel activity. I'd be all for funding stronger anti-smuggling measures and procedures at the legal border crossings where the vast majority of the drugs that get in cross the border.

A wall is now and always has been a stupid goddamn idea.

[MaxFly]

The border is around 2,000 miles long, and it's not in straight line either. It meanders to and fro, and elevates up and down a bit.. A skyscraper should absolutely cost much less than a 2,000 mile wall

I can't believe that at this point, this still needs to be explained.

[MaxFly]

I will just post this here..


As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

The study also finds that the undocumented population from Mexico fell by almost 400,000 people in 2017 and that since 2010, the number of undocumented from that country fell by 1.3 million.

"We have made tremendous progress since the year 2000 in reducing undocumented immigration into this country," the study's author, CMS senior fellow Robert Warren, told NPR.

Warren was the director of statistics at the Immigration and Naturalization Service from 1986 to 1995. He said that both the Bush and Obama administrations had roughly doubled the size of the Border Patrol and that the country has seen results.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

And there have been other sources that have noted similar illegal immigration patterns and numbers. But if you want to build a wall and convince people it is needed, you have no choice but to try to convince people that most of these illegal entries result from people just walking, skipping and Concheroing over.

[ItsMillerTime]

A wall ain't gonna do shit about decreasing the amount of drugs entering this country. We can't even properly inspect our ports of entry :facepalm

[Nash]

forget walls, its 2019.. have a long ass laser

[SomeBlackDude]

oh lord...

Trump to Support DACA Protections for More Wall Funding
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-support-daca-protections-for-more-wall-funding-11547920247?emailToken=59e7cf6c106a07c8b01fd96c0e6 36efbI1pS+wGoRZd4zabWLWTPyunbkfaw96swcOZ+ExdYGIeh1 o+0QxCRtL82ITXA5PhMVe5iBTxuBX614imlbF+WQNYDczV5AYM RWDZvOma046sVw7CQg2MbmypKHXrpvlO5&reflink=article_copyURL_share)

president coulter will not like this. :ohwell:

[Kblaze8855]

See the story on 376 people who dug under the wall to enter all at once?

[bladefd]

oh lord...

Trump to Support DACA Protections for More Wall Funding
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-support-daca-protections-for-more-wall-funding-11547920247?emailToken=59e7cf6c106a07c8b01fd96c0e6 36efbI1pS+wGoRZd4zabWLWTPyunbkfaw96swcOZ+ExdYGIeh1 o+0QxCRtL82ITXA5PhMVe5iBTxuBX614imlbF+WQNYDczV5AYM RWDZvOma046sVw7CQg2MbmypKHXrpvlO5&reflink=article_copyURL_share)

president coulter will not like this. :ohwell:

Lil Donny speaking at 4pm/et (right now), presenting his plan.

Haven't the courts upheld DACA already? What benefit is there for Democrats for this trade if the courts have already upheld DACA protection?

Democrats can put in writing that Lil Donny can get his 3 billion this time for his wall/fence/slab/barrier/whatever it is this weekend, but he can't come back next year for more money in next budgeting in September.

[bladefd]

Lil Donny sounds breathless and barely holding on. Sure he is the healthiest man in history?

Get $3 billion for your tiny section of wall and open the government tonight, dummy, tonight. Then you get nothing in September when you will surely come back for more.

[Cleverness]

Nancy Pelosi: "A wall is an immorality. It

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=Cleverness]Nancy Pelosi: "A wall is an immorality. It

[diamenz]

[QUOTE=Cleverness]Nancy Pelosi: "A wall is an immorality. It

[Cleverness]

I thought Democrats wanted a wall all along but because it's Trump, they are refusing? Or is it that they don't want strong border security? What's the narrative this week? It changes every other week that I can't keep track of it :rolleyes:

You are correct that the Democrats have changed their stance on illegal immigration.

Democrats used to strongly oppose illegal immigration and low skilled immigration for several reasons, one being economic. It's a strain on the middle class taxpayers.

Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, etc. all voted for a physical barrier along the border to reduce illegal immigration about a decade ago.

They have since changed their stance. Their 2016 party platform wants to give the estimated 15-22 million illegal immigrants citizenship. They do not care about the taxpayers; they care about power.

[The Iron Fist]

lol



all the major networks have cleared their 9pm broadcast slots.

martial law's finally incoming to 'murrica. time to exercise that 2nd amendment freedom. get your milita ready.

https://i.postimg.cc/vB6cB7sT/BS-TREAD-TEMP-1-43696-1291495952.png

what a time. :bowdown:
Every time I see that flag, I think of this

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/H.Jaze1Zx6ZihoJENGnkXg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wME EzMDA7aD00MDA7dz02MDA-/https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.267700561.9566/flat,800x800,070,f.u1.jpg.cf.jpg

[Cleverness]

trump wants a 'wall'.

democrats don't want a 'wall'.

everyone wants border security (which would to an extent include A WALL!)

---

trump wants to please his base.

congressional democrats want to please their base.

gov stays in limbo and everyday people on both sides suffer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P--C-t60lI

You and bladefd both quoted me, but didn't answer my question... that's ok though.

Trump wants stronger border security more than he wants a wall. He's said that it doesn't need to be a wall; it can be another form of physical barrier. His reply to the Left's notion that barriers are immoral:

"Some have suggested a barrier is immoral. Then why do wealthy politicians build walls, fences, and gates around their homes? They don

[diamenz]

You and bladefd both quoted me, but didn't answer my question... that's ok though.

Trump wants stronger border security more than he wants a wall. He's said that it doesn't need to be a wall; it can be another form of physical barrier. His reply to the Left's notion that barriers are immoral:

"Some have suggested a barrier is immoral. Then why do wealthy politicians build walls, fences, and gates around their homes? They don’t build walls because they hate the people on the outside, but because they love the people on the inside. The only thing that is immoral is the politicians to do nothing and continue to allow more innocent people to be so horribly victimized."

^^ This is the stuff his base strongly believes in.




Indeed, a physical barrier does help. Jim Acosta (Democrat political activist who works for CNN) didn't believe it until he went down to a section of the border that actually has a strong barrier. It was perhaps the best reporting he's ever done. https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1083411819354558467

You say that everyone wants border security, but you are incorrect. Not everyone wants border security. Not everyone is against illegal immigration. The Left is becoming more globalist.

Have you not heard of the Democrats support of Sanctuary Cities?

Top democrat speaker has said walls are immoral. Prominent democrat Gavin Newsome has called for free healthcare for all illegal aliens. San Francisco (a major leftist city) opened some local election voting to illegal aliens. Now that's progressive.

https://39uhx2trii4zt1im-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1024px-Open_The_Borders_14352863017-300x200.jpg

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2lstmvm.jpg

my quoting u wasn't an intent to argue or challenge u. was just jumping in on the conversation.

just to be clear - when i said 'everyone ' wants border security, i meant everyone besides the ocasio cortez's of the world, at least. the far left tho, ya - i'm sure some of them are fine with open borders and singing kumbaya.

maybe i haven't listened or researched it enough, but all i ever hear from trump is 'wall'. did he go into any detail in that prime time address the other week? i don't have the time or energy to follow this shit to a t. regardless, if both trump and the dems want border security, then what's the whole argument about? right - it's just political nonsense from both sides.

all i'm saying is that this is all political set trippin' on both sides and people are hurtin' because of it... and people STILL wanna take sides and defend trump/dems when they're the ones that could be getting ****ed next. i think it's just a perfect example of how any dick in washington whether it be trump or pelosi is worried about their image and base instead of working on compromise. **** 'em all.

anyway, it couldn't be any clearer that we do need immigration reform and border security. walls in some places would obviously make sense. more manpower and technology, etc in others. it seems to be all or nothing from trump and pelosi right now though.