96-98 MJ vs 08-10 Kobe [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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StrongLurk

01-08-2019, 12:31 PM

Honestly can't think of two more similar players than these two during those 3 year stretches.

Who ya got?

SouBeachTalents

01-08-2019, 12:51 PM

At least make it a poll bruh

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

01-08-2019, 12:55 PM

Kobe's entire prime, or 01-10 (and the resurgence '13 season) was basically Jordan circa 96-98. Statistically anyway.

Similar skillsets, mentality and numbers.

As for these specific years?

Mike. Better playoff performer w/ more impact in the finals imo.

StrongLurk

01-08-2019, 06:10 PM

At least make it a poll bruh

Polls are lazy, easily manipulated, and meaningless.

ClipperRevival

01-08-2019, 06:18 PM

fileman1209

01-08-2019, 06:23 PM

MJ EASILY

Kobe at his absolute best is STILL worse than old ass past his prime MJ :roll:

StrongLurk

01-08-2019, 06:26 PM

ClipperRevival

01-08-2019, 06:27 PM

This comparison actually proves that Kobe was a clear tier below MJ. Because we are comparing a past his prime MJ (32-35) to an in-prime Kobe (29-32). And even then, i still think there is a clear separation because MJ was a tier better defensively.

It would be unfair to compare an in-prime MJ to an in-prime Kobe. 1990-1993 MJ was just off the charts and clearly trumps Kobe on both ends.

ClipperRevival

01-08-2019, 06:28 PM

Slight edge to MJ in regular season, basically even in playoffs.

You got the finals numbers?

Too lazy to pull those as i have to get into each season. I'm sure someone else can.

Hey Yo

01-08-2019, 06:52 PM

Cant really compare considering MJ was coming off a 2 and a half year voluntary layoff to get well rested mentally and physically.

riseagainst

01-08-2019, 09:35 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4c8t0IIEAIoJL2.jpg

SamuraiSWISH

01-10-2019, 01:41 AM

Regular season:

MJ: 29.6 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.9 SPG - .482/.369/.815
Kobe: 27.4 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.1 APG, 1.6 SPG - .461/.349/.836

Playoffs:

MJ: 31.4 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 4.1 APG, 1.6 SPG - .459/.297/.819
Kobe: 29.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.6 SPG - .464/.344/.845
So umm this proves ...

MJ EASILY

Kobe at his absolute best is STILL worse than old ass past his prime MJ :roll:
THIS

:applause:

And this ...

This comparison actually proves that Kobe was a clear tier below MJ. Because we are comparing a past his prime MJ (32-35) to an in-prime Kobe (29-32). And even then, i still think there is a clear separation because MJ was a tier better defensively.

It would be unfair to compare an in-prime MJ to an in-prime Kobe. 1990-1993 MJ was just off the charts and clearly trumps Kobe on both ends.

And this ... cause kuniva is basically always right:

Kobe's entire prime, or 01-10 (and the resurgence '13 season) was basically Jordan circa 96-98. Statistically anyway.

Similar skillsets, mentality and numbers.

As for these specific years?

Mike. Better playoff performer w/ more impact in the finals imo.

kennethgriffen

01-10-2019, 01:54 AM

these stats are very misleading

from 08-10 kobes point per shot was 1.31

from 96-98 jordans point per shot was 1.29

so while jordan shot a higher fg% kobe was in fact the more efficient scorer

and MJ's three point % was inflated cause of the shortened line

SamuraiSWISH

01-10-2019, 01:59 AM

You got the finals numbers?
33 - 35 year old MJ in ‘96 - ‘98 Finals
31.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.1 apg on 43%

29 - 31 year old KB in ‘08 - ‘10 Finals
28.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 5.4 apg on 41%

Bulls were more dominant too. Less need for individual output on Jordan’s behalf, in general. Also less games. And I think less minutes presumably as well.

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

01-10-2019, 02:16 AM

close but MJ

he was still close to an elite defender which is crazy considering how psycopathically he competed at 100% every game for all those miles in his season up to that point

Kobe was a very good defender but not as good. Defense was the difference IMO. Offensively its a wash

ImKobe

01-10-2019, 02:20 AM

Slight edge to MJ in regular season, basically even in playoffs.

You got the finals numbers?

Kobe Playoffs: 30/6/6 56.9%TS
MJ Playoffs: 31/6/4 54.3%TS

KOBE WAS THE BETTER PLAYER

And1AllDay

01-10-2019, 02:23 AM

Kobe Playoffs: 30/6/6 56.9%TS
MJ Playoffs: 31/6/4 54.3%TS

KOBE WAS THE BETTER PLAYER

I've been saying this for a while. MJ is all hype, didn't beat any good teams in the Finals. Has a lot of good dunks. Look who Kobe beat in 2010 Finals, Boston big 3. Better then any team MJ beat in the Finals.

ImKobe

01-10-2019, 02:25 AM

I've been saying this for a while. MJ is all hype, didn't beat any good teams in the Finals. Has a lot of good dunks. Look who Kobe beat in 2010 Finals, Boston big 3. Better then any team MJ beat in the Finals.

'96 Sonics are on the same level, i'd say Utah is just as tough to beat, they washed my '98 Lakers with 4 all-stars in a sweep, granted we didn't have Phil & Kobe was still very raw.

We've argued this topic before, Kobe's 08-10 numbers are slightly better than 2nd 3-Peat MJ's in the Playoffs, but MJ's 1st 3-Peat washes everyone's career in comparison.

SamuraiSWISH

01-10-2019, 02:26 AM

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

01-10-2019, 02:31 AM

Kobe Playoffs: 30/6/6 56.9%TS
MJ Playoffs: 31/6/4 54.3%TS

KOBE WAS THE BETTER PLAYER

league average TS was 54 from 08-10 and 53 TS from 96-98

MJ also averaged 1 turnover less a game

its basically a wash offensively and comes down to defense

ImKobe

01-10-2019, 02:42 AM

league average TS was 54 from 08-10 and 53 TS from 96-98

MJ also averaged 1 turnover less a game

its basically a wash offensively and comes down to defense

MJ averaged 1 less TO, Kobe averaged more assists, MJ shot the ball more but was less effective, Kobe could shoot the 3.

It's interesting to just look at numbers-wise and obviously match-ups play a key part, Kobe faced a tough defensive team twice in Boston in the Finals that lowers his numbers while Utah really didn't have anyone to guard MJ effectively & they were an average defensive team at best, probably worse than any defense Kobe's faced in the Finals.

'96 Finals numbers are similar to Kobe's against Boston in '10 and '08, but MJ faced that kind of a defense only once.

MJ against Sonics - 27/5/4 54%TS
Kobe against Boston in '10 - 29/8/4 53%TS

'97 and '09 Finals are eerily similar as well, with Jordan averaging 32/7/6 vs Kobe's 32/6/7, both shot around 53%TS

SamuraiSWISH

01-10-2019, 02:55 AM

Kobe had a much greater offensive help then Michael did in the second 3 peat

Mr Feeny

01-10-2019, 03:49 AM

How is this even a discussion? 35 year old Jordan was better than 2008-2010 Kobe.
A better offensive player. A better defensive player. A better leader. A better winner. A better scorer.

This is hardly up to debate. Kobe was okay. He just wasn't LeBron level. Or MJ level. Or 2009 Wade level.

sammichoffate

01-10-2019, 03:59 AM

Just shows how much of a God MJ was, I bet Kobe doesn't mind being compared to him when he has the jewelry to show for it.

StrongLurk

01-10-2019, 11:37 AM

And1AllDay

01-10-2019, 12:06 PM

It's pretty much a coinflip for me. I feel like if I HAD to choose, I'd choose MJ because I feel like he was slightly more under control and less likely chuck his team out of the game.

BUT, the 08 and 10 Celtics were better than the 96 sonics and 97.98 jazz.

Absolutely. We all know Mike was a scoring dunking legend but who did he beat? Thats his only knock.

We know Mike can dunk.
We know Mike can score.
We know Mike can play D.

But whod you do it against bruh?

3ball

01-10-2019, 12:39 PM

I've been saying this for a while. MJ is all hype, didn't beat any good teams in the Finals. Has a lot of good dunks. Look who Kobe beat in 2010 Finals, Boston big 3. Better then any team MJ beat in the Finals.

I fixed the nba.com links at the bottom regarding the load they carried - MJ was simply >>>

Comparison of MJ & Kobe as 1st Options:

DRtg, PPG and Pace were all lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat (1996-1998) than Kobe's championship years without Shaq (2008-2010), in both regular season and playoffs:

League-Wide DRtg in REGULAR SEASON:

1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0

2008: 107.5
2009: 108.3
2010: 107.6

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

League-Wide DRtg in PLAYOFFS (each year is link to source):

1996 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
1997 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997.html#all_misc_stats): 106.8
1998 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998.html#all_misc_stats): 105.6

2008 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
2009 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2009.html#all_misc_stats): 107.7
2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2010.html#all_misc_stats): 108.6

Yet Jordan still had better stats:

JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP

JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg

JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's

Source: basketball-reference.com

Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe's efficiency was unfairly boosted by carrying a SMALLER LOAD:

............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR

.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th

JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

CLIFFS: At 33-35 years old, MJ had better stats against better defenses than 29-31 year-old Kobe, while also carrying a larger load.. Now imagine if we looked at Jordan's prime - yikes - it's amazing how much better Jordan was than Kobe.

ImKobe

01-10-2019, 01:27 PM

use league-wide DRTG averages all you want, but that doesn't make up for the fact that Jordan faced worse defenses in the Finals at the time.

Seattle 102.0 DRTG 27/5/4 54%TS
Utah '97 104.0 DRTG 32/7/6 53%TS
Utah '98 105.4 DRTG 34/4/2 52%TS

Boston '08 98.9 DRTG 26/5/5 51%TS
Orlando 101.9 DRTG 32/6/7 53%TS
Boston '10 103.9 DRTG 29/8/4 53%TS

I would say that those Boston teams were better than Utah/Seattle on both ends as well.

StrongLurk

01-10-2019, 01:38 PM

Maybe, but MJ achieved his stats against lower league-leading drtg's and carried a much bigger burden, especially in the 4th

PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR

.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th

JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

^^^^Look at that 4th quarter gap in load/burden... :eek:..:lebronamazed:.... 60% bigger burden for the goat

Kobe had more help on offense but MJ had more help on defense. 08 Celtics beat the 98 Bulls for sure.

dankok8

01-10-2019, 01:50 PM

I have always said this is a very even comparison. Jordan however was not at his best (GOAT) level during the second threepeat.

superduper

01-10-2019, 01:57 PM

I have always said this is a very even comparison. Jordan however was not at his best (GOAT) level during the second threepeat.

Neither was Kobe

Mr Feeny

01-10-2019, 02:00 PM

Kobe had more help on offense but MJ had more help on defense. 08 Celtics beat the 98 Bulls for sure.

Jesus. Sure they do. The same 2008 Celtics who were taken to 7 games by a joke Atlanta team in the 1st round and the same team that was taken to the final minute of a game 7 by LeBron James and 4 traffic cones. No they wouldn't. They wouldn't have a shot.

Mr Feeny

01-10-2019, 02:01 PM

Neither was Kobe

He was. Or very close to it. Jordan was 33-35 and nowhere near his prime, however.

3ball

01-10-2019, 02:12 PM

Kobe had more help on offense but MJ had more help on defense. 08 Celtics beat the 98 Bulls for sure.
MJ was the much better defender, so he needed less defensive help than kobe, not more

Kobe had rim protectors and shot-blockers Bynum/Gasol, whereas MJ didn't have rim protection

the "greater defensive help" was Jordan...

And Artest = 35-year old, 4/8 rodman... who didn't start in 98 PO

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

01-10-2019, 02:33 PM

And this ... cause kuniva is basically always right:

:pimp:

Waddup bro.

He was. Or very close to it. Jordan was 33-35 and nowhere near his prime, however.

Not in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was.

His peak years were 06-08. Some would even argue 2003.

The fact many of you think there's some tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10 Kobe...is crazy.

This isn't Jordan from 88-93. More like the back end of his prime.

3ball

01-10-2019, 03:53 PM

PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR

.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th

JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

^^^^Look at that 4th quarter gap in load/burden... :eek:
.

3ball

01-10-2019, 04:07 PM

:pimp:

Waddup bro.

Not in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was.

His peak years were 06-08. Some would even argue 2003.

The fact many of you think there's some tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10 Kobe...is crazy
This isn't Jordan from 88-93. More like the back end of his prime.

Per 100 Possessions Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_poss):. 42.5 pts.. 2.5 oreb.. 5.6 dreb.. 5.6 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 118 ortg.. 54.3 ts..
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_per_poss):.l 38.6 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 115 ortg.. 54.9 ts..

Advanced Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 27.3 PER.. 9.5 ows.. 4.0 dws.. 0 268 ws/48.. 7.3 obpm... 0.3 dbpm.. 7.3 bpm.. 5.9 VORP.. 102 drtg
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 23.8 PER.. 4.7 ows.. 1.1 dws.. 0 158 ws/48.. 4.6 obpm.. -0.2 dbpm.. 4.4 bpm.. 2.8 VORP.. 107 drg

Now consider the scoring burden stats from NBA.com in the previous post above, where MJ's burden was far greater (50% more in Finals 4th quarters)

Jordan simply had less help offensively, yet his teams had the #6 and 16 all-time offenses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452768), versus Kobe's #43 and 49 offenses.. and defensively it's no contest - 08'-10 Kobe wasn't a great defender..

Given this information, there's clearly a tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10' Kobe..

Btw, 08-10 wasn't Kobe's prime.... The defensive bpm shows that only 01-03' Kobe approached 97-98' MJ on the defensive end.. (and no version of Kobe could touch 96' MJ defensively, or pre-96).

ClipperRevival

01-11-2019, 12:08 AM

Another thing to consider is the fact that the 1995-96 Bulls broke the then record of 69 wins in a season. That record stood for 25 years (1971-72 Lakers). But even more impressive is the fact that the 1996-97 Bulls won 69 games the very next season, MATCHING the old record.

That would be akin to a team today winning 74 or more games in one season and winning 73 games the very next season. Relative to era, that's exactly what MJ did.

Also, there is the gap in championships, MVP, FMVP, etc. MJ has Kobe in pretty much every conceivable way.

ClipperRevival

01-11-2019, 12:20 AM

AngelEyes

01-11-2019, 12:25 AM

I saw Kobe's entire career. And I just kind of laugh when people say he was anything near his best anything prior to 2007. As a singular talent? Sure, probably around 2005-2007. That's when he had most of his crazy scoring explosions.

But as "the man" on a championship team? Making teammates better and knowing when to get teammates involved and when to take over offensively? Finding that perfect balance? In that regard, Kobe was at his absolute best in 2008-09. And the playoff stats back it up. He peaked there as "the man".

2005-2007 Kobe did NOT make teammates better. He didn't want too. He just tried to get his.

I think you're right. Kobe's overall play peaked in 2009, when he put his entire game together. . . shooting, post game, passing, etc. In 2003 I believe he was at his athletic peak, he never looked more explosive than he did that season. In 2006 you can make a compelling argument that he peaked as a scorer.

diamenz

01-11-2019, 12:35 AM

Cant really compare considering MJ was coming off a 2 and a half year voluntary layoff to get well rested mentally and physically.

we get it. we heard u the first thousand times.