1st round exit masters

[TheCorporation]

I’ve decided to compile some data to rank the best 1st round exit masters in NBA history. I’m sure I will miss a few players so please feel free to provide additional data so as to strengthen the list and ensure accuracy.

Without further adieu, I will present the NBA’s 1st round exit masters

# of 1st round exits

-Hakeem Olajuwon: 8x
-Michael Jordan: 3x
-Tim Duncan: 3x
-Shaquille O'Neal: 3x
-Larry Bird: 3x
-Magic Johnson: 2x
-Wilt Chamberlin: 2x

Are we missing anyone else in the top 10?

*Note: LeBron has zero

[JohnMax]

Lebron was in East where there were like 2 or 3 elite teams early in his career. He was able to avoid those teams in 1st round because East was just too garbage to get 7th or 8th seed.


.

[bullettooth]

Lebron was in East where there were like 2 or 3 elite teams early in his career. He was able to avoid those teams in 1st round because East was just too garbage to get 7th or 8th seed.

He also completely missed the playoffs in his first two years.

[fileman1209]

How did Hakeem beat a stacked 86 Showtime lakers while Jordan couldn't even win a game vs the 86 Celtics??

How?

[Marchesk]

How did Hakeem beat a stacked 86 Showtime lakers while Jordan couldn't even win a game vs the 86 Celtics??

How?

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/d4/80/23d480ec3837bfd363ba3d8d04c3e95c.jpg

[bullettooth]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/d4/80/23d480ec3837bfd363ba3d8d04c3e95c.jpg

The original Twin Towers.

[Gus Hemmingway]

I’ve decided to compile some data to rank the best 1st round exit masters in NBA history. I’m sure I will miss a few players so please feel free to provide additional data so as to strengthen the list and ensure accuracy.

Without further adieu, I will present the NBA’s 1st round exit masters

# of 1st round exits

-Hakeem Olajuwon: 8x
-Michael Jordan: 3x
-Tim Duncan: 3x
-Shaquille O'Neal: 3x
-Larry Bird: 3x
-Magic Johnson: 2x
-Wilt Chamberlin: 2x

Are we missing anyone else in the top 10?

*Note: LeBron has zero

Yikes

MJ was handing out FMVP's to Bird and Dumars in 1st-3rd rounds, longggg before they reached the Finals :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

The original Twin Towers.

Magic Johnson was a twin tower? :hammerhead:


Millenial snowflakes and their YT highlights :roll:

[3ball]

MJ only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds

Lebron is lucky his 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'

Somehow he missed the playoffs with a 2-time all-star center in a weak conference

But as soon as Big Z/Hughes/Lebron got a tiny bit of coaching (Brown), they were 50-win, high seeds, so that proves how much talent Big Z and Hughes really were, and gooden... :confusedshrug:

[bigkingsfan]

MJ had a 23 ppg 55% beast teammate too. :eek:

[Marchesk]

MJ had a 23 ppg 55% beast teammate too. :eek:

Moncrief was the difference in that first round series.

Jordan: 29.3
Woolridge: 20.5

Cummings: 29.5
Moncrief: 26.5 and made Jordan work hard for his points

Cummings and Moncrief also shot really well.

[Marchesk]

MJ had a 23 ppg 55% beast teammate too. :eek:

Moncrief was the difference in that first round series.

Jordan: 29.3
Woolridge: 20.5

Cummings: 29.5
Moncrief: 26.5 and made Jordan work hard for his points

Cummings and Moncrief also shot really well.

The Bucks were a 59 win team. They were good.

[TheCorporation]

Kobe 3x (2006, 2007, 2013)


Oh wait.. you said Top 10

Good catch, yes Kobe has 3 like most top 10-15 NBA stars but since he is 12th all time he was not included. He is 12be from this day forth :lol :roll:

[TheCorporation]

Lebron was in East where there were like 2 or 3 elite teams early in his career. He was able to avoid those teams in 1st round because East was just too garbage to get 7th or 8th seed.


.

Oh okay, so then he has still has zero?


He also completely missed the playoffs in his first two years.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Jordan play college for four years? So...What was his excuse? Comparing 18 year old LBJ to 22 year old MJ? Typical of you Jordan stans.

Furthermore, Jordan missed the playoffs twice with the Washington Wizards.

[TheCorporation]

east first round doesnt count :lol

Is this your attempt to cover up all of Jordan's 1st round exits? Because he has three. And they counted.


Yikes

MJ was handing out FMVP's to Bird and Dumars in 1st-3rd rounds, longggg before they reached the Finals :oldlol:

Yes he sure was. Jordan was the 1st round exiting master for a long time. Only one player has more than him (Hakeem). He is a 1st round exit master no doubt about it.

[TheCorporation]

MJ only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds

Lebron is lucky his 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'

Somehow he missed the playoffs with a 2-time all-star center in a weak conference

But as soon as Big Z/Hughes/Lebron got a tiny bit of coaching (Brown), they were 50-win, high seeds, so that proves how much talent Big Z and Hughes really were, and gooden... :confusedshrug:

Are you comparing 18-year old James to 22-year old Jordan? And if so, (which I think you are attempting to do) what does that really say about who is the GOAT?


MJ had a 23 ppg 55% beast teammate too. :eek:

I figured as much. Like I said, he truly is one of the best 1st round exit masters this league has ever seen. Only Hakeem has amassed more 1st round exits. Truly a 1st round exiting legend.

I wonder what changed though? Suddenly Jordan went from 3x 1st round exits and a 1-9 playoff record to suddenly winning rings. Does anyone know what changed?

[superduper]

Giannis

[TheCorporation]

Giannis

He isn't top 10 though, but good addition if he passes up Kobe or Jordan on the way to eventually top 10 status.

Just imagine it, only 1 player in NBA history has more 1st round exits than Jordan. He truly is one of the legendary 1st round exit masters of the NBA. What a 1st round exit legend :applause:

[Nash]

T-Mac gang

[knicksman]

its not how you start the race, its how you finish that matters. Thats why people value clutch so much but not 1st quarter. Coz in the end, what matters is 6/6 and 5/7 without needing superteams. Thats why players respect kobe/jordan while only the statnerds for bron.:lol

[TheCorporation]

T-Mac gang

Yes, even though he is not top 10-15 he should be listed as an honorable mention for sure. Probably the same with Chris Paul

[TheCorporation]

its not how you start the race, its how you finish that matters. Thats why people value clutch so much but not 1st quarter. Coz in the end, what matters is 6/6 and 5/7 without needing superteams. Thats why players respect kobe/jordan while only the statnerds for bron.:lol

Well hello there friend. Did you like my ranking of the NBA's greatest 1st round exit masters?

Jordan is #2 all-time and that is impressive to me. Do you think LeBron will get 4x 1st round exits and pass him up?

[SouBeachTalents]

Well hello there friend. Did you like my ranking of the NBA's greatest 1st round exit masters?

Jordan is #2 all-time and that is impressive to me. Do you think LeBron will get 4x 1st round exits and pass him up?
its not how you start the race, its how you finish that matters. Thats why people value clutch so much but not 1st quarter. Coz in the end, what matters is 6/6 and 5/7 without needing superteams. Thats why players respect kobe/jordan while only the statnerds for bron.:lol

[knicksman]

The question is, why are bron stans melting down lately? Is it because more and more players are confirming that kobe stans were right and bron stans arent?

[Rudeboy3]

How about missed playoff masters?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[knicksman]

Well hello there friend. Did you like my ranking of the NBA's greatest 1st round exit masters?

Jordan is #2 all-time and that is impressive to me. Do you think LeBron will get 4x 1st round exits and pass him up?

why you mad tho? Is it because you respected so much something that we dont give a damn. Is it because you realized how cheap you are for having such low standards:lol

[TheCorporation]

The question is, why are bron stans melting down lately? Is it because more and more players are confirming that kobe stans were right and bron stans arent?

If me posting factual information with a compiled list of relevant data means that I am melting down then I don't think you have a firm grasp of the term "meltdown" and because of your overly abundant usage of the term it is losing its value.

[knicksman]

its not how you start the race, its how you finish that matters. Thats why people value clutch so much but not 1st quarter. Coz in the end, what matters is 6/6 and 5/7 without needing superteams. Thats why players respect kobe/jordan while only the statnerds for bron.:lol

more and more Players are confirming that were right. So how does it feel to be dumb statnerd?

[SouBeachTalents]

more and more Players are confirming that were right. So how does it feel to be dumb statnerd?
Terrible :(

[knicksman]

If me posting factual information with a compiled list of relevant data means that I am melting down then I don't think you have a firm grasp of the term "meltdown" and because of your overly abundant usage of the term it is losing it's value.

nah brah. Stop pretending like youre not melting down after durant and other players confirmed our knowledge of this game. I know it sucks to be dumb. But you just have to deal with it. Were here to support you if you need help

[knicksman]

Terrible :(

wilt > jordan?:lol

[TheCorporation]

nah brah. Stop pretending like youre not melting down after durant and other players confirmed our knowledge of this game. I know it sucks to be dumb. But you just have to deal with it. Were here to support you if you need help

I repeat. If me posting factual information with a compiled list of relevant data means that I am melting down then I don't think you have a firm grasp of the term "meltdown" and because of your overly abundant usage of the term it is losing its value.

[knicksman]

I repeat. If me posting factual information with a compiled list of relevant data means that I am melting down then I don't think you have a firm grasp of the term "meltdown" and because of your overly abundant usage of the term it is losing its value.

you spamming the boards lately tells me youre melting down. My advice to you brah is move on. Learn more about the game. Create new account and be a kobe stan.

[3ball]

Are you comparing 18-year old James to 22-year old Jordan?



at 22-23 years old against champions:



- Jordan averaged a combined 40/7/6 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1986-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game) on 46% with 2.2 steals and 1.8 blocks versus the Celtics in the 86' and 87 playoffs

- Lebron averaged 24/7/7 on 35% versus the 07' spurs and 08' celtics



:confusedshrug:
.

[TheCorporation]

at 22-23 years old against champions:



- Jordan averaged a combined 40/7/6 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1986-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game) on 46% with 2.2 steals and 1.8 blocks versus the Celtics in the 86' and 87 playoffs

- Lebron averaged 24/8/6 on 35% versus the 07' spurs and 08' celtics



:confusedshrug:

Do you think LeBron will amass 4x 1st round exits and pass the 1st round exit master Jordan?

[3ball]

Do you think LeBron will amass 4x 1st round exits and pass the 1st round exit master Jordan?
Enjoy that L

[TheCorporation]

Enjoy that L

Is Jordan's record safe?

1st round exit master = Michael Geoffrey Jordan (3x master) :bowdown:

[3ball]

Do you think LeBron will amass 4x 1st round exits and pass the 1st round exit master Jordan?
MJ is just matching lebron's record for 2nd round losses (3 times)

Le2ndroundexit.... And Finals... Wow, he's goat loser for 2 rounds
.

[Young X]

It's hard to lose when you face 38 win teams.

[Young X]

Dirk lost in the first round like 8 times as well.

It happens when you actually play in a conference with good teams.

[TheCorporation]

Dirk lost in the first round like 8 times as well.

It happens when you actually play in a conference with good teams.

Dirk is not top 10 but thank you for your contribution.

So far the 1st round exit masters list is shaping up nicely. I didn't see LeBron's name on there, though. Interesting.

[Young X]

Dirk lost in the first round like 8 times as well.

It happens when you actually play in a conference with good teams.You won't see Lebron's name becasue he played in the 2010's east.

Facing teams like the Al Jefferson Bobcats.

Meanwhile in the west, you had Grizzlies/Thunder and Warriors/Clippers.

There were no other superstars in the east those years besides Lebron.

He and Joakim Noah were the only east players I believe that made an All-NBA team that year. Pathetic.

[BigShotBob]

So it's better to not make the playoffs than to make it and lose to a number 1 seed?

[superduper]

You won't see Lebron's name becasue he played in the 2010's east.

Facing teams like the Al Jefferson Bobcats.

Meanwhile in the west, you had Grizzlies/Thunder and Warriors/Clippers.

There were no other superstars in the east those years besides Lebron.

He and Joakim Noah were the only east players I believe that made an All-NBA team that year. Pathetic.

Don't forget, the West also had first rounds of prime Dirk facing prime Duncan.

[And1AllDay]

So it's better to not make the playoffs than to make it and lose to a number 1 seed?

MJ missed playoffs twice.
LBJ missed playoffs twice.

Next

[Duncan21formvp]

How did Lebron James lose to a Career Loser in Dwight Howard with HCA while having a 4x DPOY on his squad.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454610&page=6


Why did Shawn Marion single handedly hold Lebron to 8 points in the finals?

And why does Lebron always get his ass kicked by me in the finals?


Or why was Lebronze on multiple USA teams that led teams to bronze medals?

And embarrass the United States of America twice with bronze medals?
https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/game/p/gid/A/grid/75/rid/5152/sid/3507/_/2006_FIBA_World_Championship/statistic.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/2004-08-27-USA-ARG/

[bigkingsfan]

Tim Duncan, can't get worse than losing an 8th seed

[Duncan21formvp]

Tim Duncan, can't get worse than losing an 8th seed
Beat the Crap out of Lebron twice and destroyed him at that. Lebron being out west that time would have lost in the first round yearly like KG and Melo did.

[Smoke117]

Kobe 3x (2006, 2007, 2013)


Oh wait.. you said Top 10


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OoOoo.gif

[And1AllDay]

Tim Duncan, can't get worse than losing an 8th seed

I know man. He nabbed the #1 seed and lost to an #8 seed. The most embarassing loss in the history of NBA.

Yikes Duncan fail

[Duncan21formvp]

Hell Lebron couldn't even beat Dwight Howard when Lebron had HCA a guy known as a career loser. The biggest fail ever.

Memphis went up 2-1 on Golden State and beat a peak Durant when Durant had HCA. Who the hell did Dwight Howard ever beat apart from Lebron?

[And1AllDay]

Hell Lebron couldn't even beat Dwight Howard when Lebron had HCA a guy known as a career loser. The biggest fail ever.

Memphis went up 2-1 on Golden State and beat a peak Durant when Durant had HCA. Who the hell did Dwight Howard ever beat apart from Lebron?

Duncan Spurs nabbed the #1 seed and lost to an #8 seed. The most embarassing loss in the history of NBA.

Yikes Duncan fail

[bigkingsfan]

I know man. He nabbed the #1 seed and lost to an #8 seed. The most embarassing loss in the history of NBA.

Yikes Duncan fail
Hmm the Griz must have a decorated history, I looked it up and they won 0 previously playoffs game in their franchise history. That can't be true, but I'm new to the NBA.

[And1AllDay]

Hmm the Griz must have a decorated history, I looked it up and they won 0 previously playoffs game in their franchise history. That can't be true, but I'm new to the NBA.

:oldlol:

Yeah it is very true. This is usually where the LeBron hater quiets up since he knows he got majorly owned

Just imagine it, a #1 seed playing a #8 seed with ZERO playoff wins and then you get wrekt and become the biggest failure in NBA history.

[knicksman]

:oldlol:

Yeah it is very true. This is usually where the LeBron hater quiets up since he knows he got majorly owned

Just imagine it, a #1 seed playing a #8 seed with ZERO playoff wins and then you get wrekt and become the biggest failure in NBA history.

then you realize that embarrassing guy destroyed bron 2-1 with his only win a bailout shot. Damn no wonder, he has to create superteams.

[And1AllDay]

then you realize that embarrassing guy destroyed bron 2-1 with his only win a bailout shot. Damn no wonder, he has to create superteams.

Duncan Spurs nabbed the #1 seed and lost to an #8 seed. The most embarassing loss in the history of NBA.

Yikes Duncan fail

[3ball]

MJ missed playoffs twice.
LBJ missed playoffs twice.

Next
lebron is a goat loser in 2 rounds (2nd round and Finals), compared to MJ only 1 round (1st Rd)

[And1AllDay]

lebron is a goat loser in 2 rounds (2nd round and Finals), compared to MJ only 1 round (1st Rd)

I wonder if the 1st round loss is worse than Finals loss

Is it better to pull an MJ

a) lose in 1st round

Or, pull an LBJ

b) win in 1st round, win in 2nd round, win in 3rd round, lose in Finals

[TheCorporation]

If MJ actually got past the 2nd round in '95 would that have been "worse" for his legacy?

MJ was knocked out in the 2nd round by Shaq's Magic, but are we saying that if MJ beat that team, beat the next team, and then lost to Hakeem's Rockets in the Finals (thus producing a 6-1 Finals record) are you guys saying this is worse?

Advancing = worse?

I want to attempt to understand what you guys are saying because my stance is clear: Losing earlier is worse, not better. Agree or disagree?

[3ball]

If MJ actually got past the 2nd round in '95 would that have been "worse" for his legacy?


No, but if he lost by record amount, swept, or lost as the favorite, it would be a bad for his career, as it was for lebron in 07', 11, 14, 17, 18'

And all greats get swept and beat, but MJ always did it with the worst odds (8 vs 1 seed), or a low seed, whereas lebron has never been a low seed!!.. He's always lost with high seeds and generally better odds





Losing earlier is worse, not better. Agree or disagree?


MJ won 6 Finals, so lebron got knocked out earlier more than MJ, including three 2nd round losses, 1 conference finals loss, and 6 Finals losses..

MJ only has 7 early exits to Lebron's 10......... Ultimately:

Lebron:. 9 conference finals wins... 3 Finals wins
Jordan:. 6 conference finals wins... 6 Finals wins

Obviously, MJ's 3 extra Finals wins > lebron's 3 extra conference finals wins.. :confusedshrug:
.

[TheCorporation]

MJ won 6 Finals, so lebron got knocked out earlier more than MJ, including three 2nd round losses, 1 conference finals loss, and 6 Finals losses..

MJ only has 7 early exits to Lebron's 10......... Ultimately:

Lebron:. 9 conference finals wins... 3 Finals wins
Jordan:. 6 conference finals wins... 6 Finals wins

Obviously, MJ's 3 extra Finals wins > lebron's 3 extra conference finals wins.. :confusedshrug:
.

This might be the only good thing you've ever posted in this thread :lebronamazed:

But this will be a silly question and even though your answer will be silly I know your answer:

Do you wish Jordan actually beat Shaq in the 2nd round, advanced again in the ECF and then lost to Hakeem in the Finals? Or are you happy he lost in the 2nd round?

[kennethgriffen]

lebrons first round is the Finals since its the first time he faces a real team...

and he's realistically 1 for 9 in that department

[TheCorporation]

lebrons first round is the Finals since its the first time he faces a real team...

and he's realistically 1 for 9 in that department


What? No more posting for you bro.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdqxFLXm/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=456219

[TheCorporation]

why you mad tho? Is it because you respected so much something that we dont give a damn. Is it because you realized how cheap you are for having such low standards:lol

I heard LeBron lost to Dwight Howard. That sucks! Was it in the 1st round like Jordan? Should I add a "1" to LeBron 1st round exits?

[knicksman]

I heard LeBron lost to Dwight Howard. That sucks! Was it in the 1st round like Jordan? Should I add a "1" to LeBron 1st round exits?

id rather lose in the first round than lose to dwight brah.

[knicksman]

Duncan Spurs nabbed the #1 seed and lost to an #8 seed. The most embarassing loss in the history of NBA.

Yikes Duncan fail

nah lebron lost to him. So if duncan is embarrassing, then how much more for lebron. Oh wait, now I know why lebron is the most disrespected superstar.:lol

[FKAri]

MJ at age 24 was incredible. He used his tremendous first step to explode right out of the playoffs with the quickness.

[TheCorporation]

MJ at age 24 was incredible. He used his tremendous first step to explode right out of the playoffs with the quickness.

:lol

A true 1st round exit master. Only Hakeem has more than him out of all the top 10 players :lol

And only one player has zero. Weird.

[Bawkish]

:lol

A true 1st round exit master. Only Hakeem has more than him out of all the top 10 players :lol

And only one player has zero. Weird.

imagine Lebron chasing the ghost of this 1st round exit master

what a beta minded person

no wonder he lost mind games to JJ Barea :lol

[Gileraracer]

*Note: LeBron has zero

Lebron missed the Playoffs instead :lol

[TheCorporation]

why you mad tho? Is it because you respected so much something that we dont give a damn. Is it because you realized how cheap you are for having such low standards:lol

I'm never mad; this is basketball. It's a fun sport I enjoy watching. I just find it amusing Jordan has the most first round exits in top 10 history and I was wondering if LeBron will pass him?

[TheCorporation]

MJ only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds

Lebron is lucky his 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'



When he was 18 and 19? Got it...:rolleyes:

[k0kakw0rld]

Chris Paul x5
Giannis Antetokounmpo x3

[TheCorporation]

Will LeBron get 4 first round exits and pass Jordan as the first round exit King?

Since he didn't make it this year we will call it a first round exit. Can LeBron get three more and pass Jordan as the first round exit King? :eek:

[TheCorporation]

Yikes

MJ was handing out FMVP's to Bird and Dumars in 1st-3rd rounds, longggg before they reached the Finals :oldlol:

:lol :lol

[Mr.GOAT2408]

LeBron with 3 playoff misses :eek:

He's lucky he spent most of his career in a weak east, would have missed way more playoffs out west

[TheCorporation]

LeBron with 3 playoff misses :eek:

He's lucky he spent most of his career in a weak east, would have missed way more playoffs out west

Oh in his prime like Kobe in 2005 or nah

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Oh in his prime like Kobe in 2005 or nah
He's basically in his prime right now and missed as much as Kobe did when he was in his prime, would have most likely missed a few in the mid 2000s and even the last few seasons if he were in the West

Absolutely pathetic that LeBron made 8 straight finals in the east when he's not even guaranteed to make the playoffs in the west :facepalm

[TheCorporation]

He's basically in his prime right now and missed as much as Kobe did when he was in his prime, would have most likely missed a few in the mid 2000s and even the last few seasons if he were in the West

Absolutely pathetic that LeBron made 8 straight finals in the east when he's not even guaranteed to make the playoffs in the west :facepalm

Year 16 wth 8 straight Finals mileage = prime?

:biggums:

[3ball]

When he was 18 and 19? Got it...:rolleyes:
19 and 20, and he had the East all-star center on his team

Again - MJ only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds, while Lebron was lucky his 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'

Furthermore, MJ was 1-9 because he was facing a Warriors-level team with an 8 seed, yet still doing better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with 2 seeds in 14/17/18

LeFraud isn't on MJ's level, or Bird's or Kobe's among others
.

[MJistheGOAT]

1st round exits are worse than missed playoffs??

[TheCorporation]

Chris Paul x5
Giannis Antetokounmpo x3

Only top 15 players :cheers:

[TheCorporation]

What if Pippen played with Hakeem in his prime instead?


Would MJ have 8 1st round exits? Would 1-9 grow to something god awful?

Would MJ get even one ring?

Would Hakeem be the GOAT? :eek:

[3ball]

Most young players on bad teams don't make the playoffs their first few years, like Lebron or Kyrie, and play poorly against championship comp several times once they make it, like lebron from 07-11'

But MJ made the playoffs right away and had goat performance (63), so his 1-9 record is irrelevant and doesn't require the obvious explanation - he was facing a Warriors-level team with a young 8 seed, yet still did better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with veteran 2 seeds in 07/14/17/18 Finals (2-16 record)

And Lebron missed the playoffs with the East all-star center on his team in 05'.. Whereas MJ never missed the playoffs when he had elite athleticism, and only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds, while Lebron's 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'

[Manny98]

1st round exits are worse than missed playoffs??
Yes if your team is good enough to reach the playoffs I expect you to at least get past the first round especially if you're the so called GOAT

[And1AllDay]

Most young players on bad teams don't make the playoffs their first few years, like Lebron or Kyrie, and play poorly against championship comp several times once they make it, like lebron from 07-11'

But MJ made the playoffs right away and had goat performance (63), so his 1-9 record is irrelevant and doesn't require the obvious explanation - he was facing a Warriors-level team with a young 8 seed, yet still did better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with veteran 2 seeds in 07/14/17/18 Finals (2-16 record)

And Lebron missed the playoffs with the East all-star center on his team in 05'.. Whereas MJ never missed the playoffs when he had elite athleticism, and only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds, while Lebron's 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'

No team is "Warriors level" but Warriors...

And are you comparing big Z to Scottie Pippen?
And do you trutfhully deny Scottie's greatness? Do you think Mike could get out of the first round without him? :eek:

1-9 happened

[And1AllDay]

What if Pippen played with Hakeem in his prime instead?


Would MJ have 8 1st round exits? Would 1-9 grow to something god awful?

Would MJ get even one ring?

Would Hakeem be the GOAT? :eek:

3ball, discuss

[3ball]

What if Pippen played with Hakeem in his prime instead?


Would MJ have 8 1st round exits? Would 1-9 grow to something god awful?

Would MJ get even one ring?

Would Hakeem be the GOAT? :eek:
If the Warriors were out of the league and not a factor, the ring would be up for grabs - those are the circumstances that Hakeem won his rings.. :confusedshrug:

But in a full strength league, we know Hakeem can't win with Pippen because he lost with HOF ralph sampson to Dale Ellis in 87', Bird in 86', and Stockton in 85'..

Also, his favored 2 seed was destroyed by rookie Payton/Kemp in 93'... He lost to payton/kemp again in 96' despite 19 on 46% from Drexler and great performance by others, while MJ demolished those sonics with only 15 on 34% by pippen.. MJ simply knew how to play ball and win better than hakeem - MJ never lost with 1 or 2 seeds, while Hakeem did in 86' and 93'.

Finally, any team with pippen as the 2nd option and weak scorers after that requires 33.7 and 6.6 apg from the #1 option in the 91-93' playoffs.. that's impossible, since even the notorious stat-padder lebron could only muster 27.2 and 7.2 during his 3 winning playoff runs (12/13/16)...

And it gets worse in the Finals - the #1 option needed 36/7/8 on 53%, which only mj was capable of.. essentially, a player needs to be the league's top scorer to win rings as a bull - MJ is the only perimeter player that won a ring as the league scoring champ (6 times).. only MJ can do that.. :confusedshrug:

[Uncle Drew]

If the Warriors were out of the league and not a factor, the ring would be up for grabs - those are the circumstances that Hakeem won his rings.. :confusedshrug:

But in a full strength league, we know Hakeem can't win with Pippen because he lost with HOF ralph sampson to Dale Ellis in 87', Bird in 86', and Stockton in 85'..

Also, his favored 2 seed was destroyed by rookie Payton/Kemp in 93'... He lost to payton/kemp again in 96' despite 19 on 46% from Drexler and great performance by others, while MJ demolished those sonics with only 15 on 34% by pippen.. MJ simply knew how to play ball and win better than hakeem - MJ never lost with 1 or 2 seeds, while Hakeem did in 86' and 93'.

Finally, any team with pippen as the 2nd option and weak scorers after that requires 33.7 and 6.6 apg from the #1 option in the 91-93' playoffs.. that's impossible, since even the notorious stat-padder lebron could only muster 27.2 and 7.2 during his 3 winning playoff runs (12/13/16)...

And it gets worse in the Finals - the #1 option needed 36/7/8 on 53%, which only mj was capable of.. essentially, a player needs to be the league's top scorer to win rings as a bull - MJ is the only perimeter player that won a ring as the league scoring champ (6 times).. only MJ can do that.. :confusedshrug:
Why did Jordan duck Hakeem?

[TheCorporation]

If the Warriors were out of the league and not a factor, the ring would be up for grabs - those are the circumstances that Hakeem won his rings.. :confusedshrug:

But in a full strength league, we know Hakeem can't win with Pippen because he lost with HOF ralph sampson to Dale Ellis in 87', Bird in 86', and Stockton in 85'..

Also, his favored 2 seed was destroyed by rookie Payton/Kemp in 93'... He lost to payton/kemp again in 96' despite 19 on 46% from Drexler and great performance by others, while MJ demolished those sonics with only 15 on 34% by pippen.. MJ simply knew how to play ball and win better than hakeem - MJ never lost with 1 or 2 seeds, while Hakeem did in 86' and 93'.

Finally, any team with pippen as the 2nd option and weak scorers after that requires 33.7 and 6.6 apg from the #1 option in the 91-93' playoffs.. that's impossible, since even the notorious stat-padder lebron could only muster 27.2 and 7.2 during his 3 winning playoff runs (12/13/16)...

And it gets worse in the Finals - the #1 option needed 36/7/8 on 53%, which only mj was capable of.. essentially, a player needs to be the league's top scorer to win rings as a bull - MJ is the only perimeter player that won a ring as the league scoring champ (6 times).. only MJ can do that.. :confusedshrug:


So let me get this straight, Jordan won a ring in '96 putting up 27 on 41% vs 6'3 165lb guards with 105 DRtg while getting outplayed by Shawn Kemp, but LeBron couldn't do that?

Jordan want to ring in '98 versus the Utah Jazz when its number one option was Jeff hornacek boring in a blistering 10.7 ppg but LeBron wouldn't win that series?

Or what about his '92 ring versus the Trailblazers where they had one star...

The only tough Rings Jordan had were '93 Suns and '97 Jzz. Period.

Let's not get too crazy here.

[TheCorporation]

Who are the perimeter defenders Jordan faced in the Finals?

Terry Porter?
Byron Russell?
Jeff Hornacek?
Terry Teagle?

Here are LeBron's:

Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green
Andre Igoudola
Klay Thompson

Notice a difference? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Why did Jordan duck Hakeem?
Why would anyone think hakeem would make the Finals in 94?... Hakeem was a doormat for his entire career

It's simply luck that the rockets happened to get everything rolling during those 2 years that MJ didn't play full seasons, so the rockets could avoid facing the best the league had to offer - they beat the THIRD level of opposition to win, like the 19' nuggets or raptors (i.e. if the 19' rockets beat the nuggets or raptors for the ring this year)
.

[TheCorporation]

Why did Jordan duck Hakeem?

Because he knew better.

Jordan never performed well against actual stars.

He has a losing record to Larry Bird and Isaiah Thomas for a reason. But at least he beat Clyde Drexler and Shawn Kemp! :lol (despite getting outplayed and having a lower game score).

[3ball]

So let me get this straight, Jordan won a ring in '96 putting up 27 on 42% vs 6'3 165lb guards with 105 DRtg while getting outplayed by Shawn Kemp, but LeBron couldn't do that?

Jordan want to ring in '98 versus the Utah Jazz when its number one option was Jeff hornacek boring in a blistering 10.7 ppg but LeBron wouldn't win that series?

Or what about his '92 ring versus the Trailblazers where they had one star...

The only tough Rings Jordan had were '93 Suns and '97 Jzz. Period.

Let's not get too crazy here.
Thru 6 games of the 2013 Finals, Lebron's 23 on 43% was insufficient and required ray allen to make it to game 7, whereas jordan's 27 on 42% would've won it in 5 or 6..

especially considering MJ averaged 31 on 46% thru 3 games (3-0 lead), versus lebron's 16 on 39% (1-2 deficit)

And the 98' Jazz were the Shaq/Duncan/Popovich killers, but they couldn't beat the goat.. :bowdown:... Beating the 98' jazz is a badge of honor that Shaq and Duncan failed to get

[3ball]

Who are the perimeter defenders Jordan faced in the Finals?

Terry Porter?
Byron Russell?
Jeff Hornacek?
Terry Teagle?


Here are LeBron's:

Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green
Andre Igoudola
Klay Thompson

Notice a difference? :confusedshrug:


Payton > Kawhi

Drexler > Iggy

Russell > Klay

And Malone or Kemp destroys Draymond.. I'm surprised you have the temerity to start talking about bigs

[TheCorporation]

Payton > Kawhi

Drexler > Iggy

Russell > Klay

And Malone or Kemp destroys Draymond.. I'm surprised you have the temerity to start talking about bigs

I can't tell if you're trolling or not half of the time.

What kind of a mess of a post is this???

[TheCorporation]

Payton > Kawhi

Drexler > Iggy

Russell > Klay

And Malone or Kemp destroys Draymond.. I'm surprised you have the temerity to start talking about bigs

Please link me to the final Series where Draymond had a higher game score than LeBron 👀👀

[3ball]

Please link me to the final Series where Draymond had a higher game score than LeBron ����
Link me to the series where Magic won fmvp

Or where Drexler outscored him


Furthermore, thru 6 games of the 2013 Finals, Lebron's 23 on 43% was insufficient and required ray allen to make it to game 7, whereas jordan's 27 on 42% would've won it in 5 or 6..

especially considering MJ averaged 31 on 46% thru 3 games (3-0 lead), versus lebron's 16 on 39% (1-2 deficit)

And the 98' Jazz were the Shaq/Duncan/Popovich killers, but they couldn't beat the goat.. :bowdown:... Beating the 98' jazz is a badge of honor that Shaq and Duncan failed to get

[TheCorporation]

Link me to the series where Magic won fmvp

Or where Drexler outscored him


Furthermore, thru 6 games of the 2013 Finals, Lebron's 23 on 43% was insufficient and required ray allen to make it to game 7, whereas jordan's 27 on 42% would've won it in 5 or 6

Kawhi Leonard is probably the best perimeter defender in NBA history.

And having Tim Duncan at the rim makes it even harder.

But imagine having a 6-3 guard on you and still doing worse :lol

I have no clue why you keep bringing this up because it only hurts you.

Why don't you ever talk about game 7 of 2013?

37-12-4 on
52% FG
50% 3P
144 ORtg
95 DRtg
32.5 GmScore

Not bad, eh?

[3ball]

Kawhi Leonard is probably the best perimeter defender in NBA history.

And having Tim Duncan at the rim makes it even harder.

But imagine having a 6-3 guard on you and still doing worse :lol

I have no clue why you keep bringing this up because it only hurts you.

Why don't you ever talk about game 7 of 2013?

37-12-4 on
52% FG
50% 3P
144 ORtg
95 DRtg
32.5 GmScore

Not bad, eh?
It was simply harder to score back then, so you and me splitting hairs over Payton vs Kawhi means little

Ultimately, Lebron enjoys better spacing and less physical defense, yet he wins less, despite having the best capacity/athleticism to benefit from these advantages

And who cares about game 7 when MJ's worst performance (27 on 42) would've ended it in game 5 or 6... MJ teams with minimal help (1 all-star) were simply TOO GOOD to go 7 in the Finals, let alone lose 6 times.. MJ had built up the goat teamwork and brand of ball required to have a dynasty, so he could win with less supporting talent

[TheCorporation]

It was simply harder to score back then, so you and me splitting hairs over Payton vs Kawhi means little

Ultimately, Lebron enjoys better spacing and less physical defense, yet he wins less, despite having the best capacity/athleticism to benefit from these advantages

And who cares about game 7 when MJ's worst performance (27 on 42) would've ended it in game 5 or 6... MJ teams with minimal help (1 all-star) were simply TOO GOOD to go 7 in the Finals, let alone lose 6 times.. MJ had built up the goat teamwork and brand of ball required to have a dynasty, so he could win with less supporting talent

Yeahhhh

Either he was "too good" with 27 on 41%

OR his competition was garbage

[3ball]

Yeahhhh

Either his competition was garbage

OR he was "too good" with 27 on 41.7%


We agreed that lebron's 23 on 43% thru 6 games of the 13' Finals was worse

and jordan's 27 on 42 would've won in 5 or 6 and not needed ray allen to make it to game 7

So you lost every way you tried to slice it.. you want to bring up hakeem again?.. :lol

[TheCorporation]

We agreed that lebron's 23 on 43% thru 6 games of the 13' Finals was worse

and jordan's 27 on 42 would've won in 5 or 6 and not needed ray allen to make it to game 7

So you lost every way you tried to slice it.. you want to bring up hakeem again?.. :lol

Why are you excluding game 7, his best performance? You are a fraud and skew stats.

Plus he was facing a dynasty and a much, much tougher team.

Next

[3ball]

Why are you excluding game 7, his best performance? You are a fraud and skew stats.

Plus he was facing a dynasty and a much, much tougher team.

Next
Game 7 is excluded because lebron's 23 on 43% thru 6 games wasn't enough to make game 7 without rayray, but jordan's 27 on 42 would've been enough to win in 6

And when was the last time the 13' spurs made a Finals?... they weren't a dynasty and every Jordan Finals opponent would've beaten them except the 92' Blazers.. the Spurs are the exact caliber of MJ's Finals opponents and he was 6-0.... while lebron was demolished twice and needed rayray the 3rd time

[TheCorporation]

Game 7 is excluded because lebron's 23 on 43% thru 6 games wasn't enough to make game 7 without rayray, but jordan's 27 on 42 would've been enough to win in 6

And when was the last time the 13' spurs made a Finals?... they weren't a dynasty and every Jordan Finals opponent would've beaten them except the 92' Blazers

It's confirmed, you've gone full retard

You managed to say the Spurs were not a dynasty AND excluded LeBron's game 7, which was a huge performance, for the sake of your own argument.

Please seek help. I am begging you.

Oh, and...1-9 :lol

[3ball]

It's confirmed, you've gone full retard

You managed to say the Spurs were not a dynasty AND excluded LeBron's game 7, which was a huge performance, for the sake of your own argument.

Please seek help. I am begging you.

Oh, and...1-9 :lol
Take that L troll

And remember that no one beat the breaks off your bullshit posting more than 3ball

[TheCorporation]

And yes his scoring was down before game 7 because of course he was playing athletes and not auto mechanics, but did you fail to mention his rebounds and assists and steals and blocks?
23.3
11
7
2.3
1

Caught. Again. 3balliar

[TheCorporation]

Take that L troll

And remember that no one beat the breaks off your bullshit posting more than 3ball

Yeah you're delusional at this point. It's apparent...

MJ is a fraud

[3ball]

And yes his scoring was down before game 7 because of course he was playing athletes and not auto mechanics, but did you fail to mention his rebounds and assists and steals and blocks?
23.3
11
7
2.3
1

Caught. Again. 3balliar
Lebron was a net negative in the 2013 Finals (-0.2), so it's a fact that Ray's presence won the series (+7.3), even without considering the saving shot in game 6

Fortunately, ray hit the shot, but lebron was horrible until ray provided that 2nd life..

Lebron averaged 23 on 43 thru 6 games so he needed rayray to make game 7, while jordan's 27 on 42 would've won it without ray

So thanks for providing more proof that Jordan is better, by showing that the lowest production he needed to win is still better than the worst lebron won with

[TheCorporation]

Lebron was a net negative in the 2013 Finals (-0.2), so it's a fact that Ray's presence won the series (+7.3), even without considering the saving shot in game 6

Fortunately, ray hit the shot, but lebron was horrible until ray provided that 2nd life..

Lebron averaged 23 on 43 thru 6 games so he needed rayray to make game 7, while jordan's 27 on 42 would've won it without ray

So thanks for providing more proof that Jordan is better, by showing that the lowest production he needed to win is still better than the worst lebron won with

What did LeBron do in game 7

What did Ray Allen do in game 7

What did Chris Bosh do in game 7

Hint:

LBJ: 37
Allen: 0
Bosh: 0

Check. Mate. Troll.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard with HCA a career loser.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

He also embarrased the USA winning bronze medals twice. :roll:

And then missed the playoffs as soon as he got to the West. :roll: