Who has a better track record of taking low seeds far in the playoffs, MJ or Lebron?

[3ball]

??

[Dray n Klay]

Why was Jordan-Ball getting low seeds in the first place? That

[PP34Deuce]

Orlando Woolridge was an athletic scorer. Looking at old highlights you'd see a couple of dunks and think it was MJ but it was Orlando. Of course, there would be no Scottie if Orlando stayed.

[AirBonner]

LeBron. LeBron got to the finals in 2007 with a team comparable to the 86 Bulls

[3ball]

Orlando Woolridge was an athletic scorer. Looking at old highlights you'd see a couple of dunks and think it was MJ but it was Orlando. Of course, there would be no Scottie if Orlando stayed.


Woodridge wasn't even close to being top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star), but 2-time all-star Zydrunas was

As soon as Lebron and Zydrunas got even a little coaching in 06', they went from being 30-win lottery to 50-win high seeds.. of course, they also added the NBA steals leader and 1st team defender (22/5/5 Hughes) and 10/10 gooden

That's just a lot better than mj had thru 89', hence MJ's lower seeds

Lebron simply never made the playoffs with a bad team and horrible cast relative to his conference like MJ from 85-89', or Kobe in 06-07

[3ball]

Why was Jordan-Ball getting low seeds in the first place? That’s the real question


Jordan's 37/5/5 yielded 42 wins, while lebron's 27/7/6 got 50 because jordan's cast was obviously worse... :confusedshrug:... It's the same reason Westbrook's had better stats for a couple years while his casts were weak

Or MJ's 33/8/8 got 47 wins in 89', and lebron's 28/8/7 got 66 wins in 09'.. again, MJ's cast was a lot worse, so he got the 6-seed and lebron the 1 seed

Lebron simply never made the playoffs with a bad team and horrible cast relative to his conference like MJ from 85-89', or Kobe in 06-07
.

[FKAri]

LeBron, easily. He's just a better track athlete.

[3ball]

LeBron. LeBron got to the finals in 2007 with a team comparable to the 86 Bulls
No, MJ's 8 seed in 86' is comparable to lebron's 9 seeds in 05, not his 2 seed in 07'... :hammerhead:

[PP34Deuce]

Orlando woolridge was a perfect play finisher. Was quite athletic. You guys should watch highlights. Bad team but the bulls were like clippers of Quentin rich and Darius miles.

Orlando couldnt stop partying. Dude should have been a lot better than he was. What he was an efficient 20 ppg scorer who wasnt great in playoffs.

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan's 37/5/5 yielded 42 wins, while lebron's 27/7/6 got 50 because jordan's cast was obviously worse... :confusedshrug:... It's the same reason Westbrook's had better stats for a couple years while his casts were weak

Or MJ's 33/8/8 got 47 wins in 89', and lebron's 28/8/7 got 66 wins in 09'.. again, MJ's cast was a lot worse, so he got the 6-seed and lebron the 1 seed

Lebron simply never made the playoffs with a bad team and horrible cast relative to his conference like MJ from 85-89', or Kobe in 06-07
.


Your stats show Jordan

[3ball]

Your stats show Jordan’s team had poor teamwork..

How else can MJ's 33/8/8 in 1989 yield 19 less wins than lebron's 28/8/7 in 2009?


The actual results tell the story

lebron had weak teamwork because he lost to the underdog Magic, who won with teamwork and brand of ball, not favored talent

Otoh, MJ won via teamwork by beating higher seeds in every round, before nearly beating the champs

Also, pippen had a 0.08 ws/48 in 1989, versus Mo Williams' 0.165.... We know those numbers accurately reflect each player's ability to contribute because Pippen grew into a great contributor.. so his 89' struggles and inferior contribution to Mo was because pippen simply young and sucked at that time... :confusedshrug:

[Dray n Klay]

The actual results tell the story

lebron had weak teamwork because he lost to the underdog Magic, who won with teamwork and brand of ball, not favored talent

Otoh, MJ won via teamwork by beating higher seeds in every round, before nearly beating the champs

Also, pippen had a 0.08 ws/48 in 1989, versus Mo Williams' 0.165.... We know those numbers accurately reflect each player's ability to contribute because Pippen grew into a great contributor.. so his 89' struggles and inferior contribution to Mo was because pippen simply young and sucked at that time... :confusedshrug:


What was Mo Williams Win Shares when LeBron left him, compared to Pippens Win Shares when Jordan left him?

[3ball]

What was Mo Williams Win Shares when LeBron left him, compared to Pippens Win Shares when Jordan left him?
I'm not claiming prime pippen wasn't better, but this wasn't prime pippen - that's the whole point im making - this was 2nd year, 89' pippen, who was a less capable contributor than peak Mo Williams, in his all-star year

the numbers demonstrate this

[Dray n Klay]

I'm not claiming prime pippen wasn't better, but this wasn't prime pippen - that's the whole point im making - this was 2nd year, 89' pippen, who was a less capable contributor than peak Mo Williams, in his all-star year

the numbers demonstrate this

Why did Jordan lose multiple times with an all-star teammate (1990, 1995), while LeBron won in 2016 with 0 all-stars?

[3ball]

Why did Jordan lose multiple times with an all-star teammate (1990, 1995),

while LeBron won in 2016 with 0 all-stars?


^^^^^^ Whats wrong with that?.. Lebron did that more than mj did

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392163


Ultimately, both have a ring with zero all-stars

but Lebron has 2 rings with 2 all-stars, compared to MJ's 5 rings with only 1 all-star

[TheCorporation]

[QUOTE=Dray n Klay]Why was Jordan-Ball getting low seeds in the first place? That

[3ball]

Bodied

Man, Dray n Klay is on a roll. Straight fire all day
Yeah right

I countered every Drayklay troll.. like a tennis player hitting back serves and putting them away on that deep baseline corner

[Mr. Jabbar]

3ball won this thread (wasn't particularly close)

besides, who gives a F what lebron accomplished in his eastern playoffs? he had high school competition and managed to get knocked by dwight howard :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan with Brad ****ing Sellers, and a super green Scottie Pippen took the eventual champions to six games.

Meanwhile LeBron

[tamaraw08]

The actual results tell the story

lebron had weak teamwork because he lost to the underdog Magic, who won with teamwork and brand of ball, not favored talent

Otoh, MJ won via teamwork by beating higher seeds in every round, before nearly beating the champs

Also, pippen had a 0.08 ws/48 in 1989, versus Mo Williams' 0.165.... We know those numbers accurately reflect each player's ability to contribute because Pippen grew into a great contributor.. so his 89' struggles and inferior contribution to Mo was because pippen simply young and sucked at that time... :confusedshrug:

OMG 3BALL, you are a master of illusion indeed. You love to indulge in facts that support your point and hide the ones that contradict them.
You mentioned Mo's REGULAR SEASON WINSHARES/48, what about playoffs winshares, you know, when you mentioned how the Cavs lost by weak teammork?:facepalm
playoffs winshares/48 '89 Pippen as 1.49, as compared to Mo's 1.03.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html (https://www.basketball-
reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html
Pippen actually HAS A BETTER PLAYOFFS STATS THAN MO IN MOST ADVANCED stats including BPM 6.0 to .4
btw, Cavs didn't lose bec of weak teamwork, Orlando caught on fire with hitting a remarkable 40.8% from the 3pt line. 3 of the starters hit above 39%, aside from Alston who "just" hit a "meager" 37.8%.
Cavs actually had a ORTG OF 110.6 compare that to the Warriors vs the Cavs in '15 had a ORTG OF 107.3
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2015-nba-finals-cavaliers-vs-warriors.html

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=Dray n Klay]Why was Jordan-Ball getting low seeds in the first place? That

[SouBeachTalents]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Jordan with Brad ****ing Sellers, and a super green Scottie Pippen took the eventual champions to six games.

Meanwhile LeBron

[FKAri]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Jordan with Brad ****ing Sellers, and a super green Scottie Pippen took the eventual champions to six games.

Meanwhile LeBron

[tamaraw08]

OMG 3BALL, you are a master of illusion indeed. You love to indulge in facts that support your point and hide the ones that contradict them.
You mentioned Mo's REGULAR SEASON WINSHARES/48, what about playoffs winshares, you know, when you mentioned how the Cavs lost by weak teammork?:facepalm
playoffs winshares/48 '89 Pippen as 1.49, as compared to Mo's 1.03.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html (https://www.basketball-
reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html
Pippen actually HAS A BETTER PLAYOFFS STATS THAN MO IN MOST ADVANCED stats including BPM 6.0 to .4
btw, Cavs didn't lose bec of weak teamwork, Orlando caught on fire with hitting a remarkable 40.8% from the 3pt line. 3 of the starters hit above 39%, aside from Alston who "just" hit a "meager" 37.8%.
Cavs actually had a ORTG OF 110.6 compare that to the Warriors vs the Cavs in '15 had a ORTG OF 107.3
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2015-nba-finals-cavaliers-vs-warriors.html
Also the 88-89 Bulls ORTG when they lost to the Pistons was 103.1
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-pistons.html
as compared to the Cavs that lost to the Magic at 110 ORTG.

[StrongLurk]

Tamaraw always bodies 3ball and 3ball only responds to like 10% of Tamaraw's post :lol

[superduper]

Boston swept prime MJ and then got taken the distance by a team with 0 all-stars :lol

1st - 3rd year MJ is prime MJ now.

Bran stans aren't even trying anymore :facepalm

[tamaraw08]

Tamaraw always bodies 3ball and 3ball only responds to like 10% of Tamaraw's post :lol
The irony is I also think MJ is still GOAT, but 3ball just want to manipulate facts to concoct certain ideas on why MJ is so much better :facepalm

[3ball]

The irony is I also think MJ is still GOAT, but 3ball just want to manipulate facts to concoct certain ideas on why MJ is so much better :facepalm
Mo Will in 2009 ECF:. 18 ppg on 38%
Pippen. in 1989 ECF:.10 ppg on 40%


Yet MJ took the champion Pistons 6 games with his 6-seeded bulls, while lebron lost to a nobody team with his heavily-favored 1 seed

Again, lebron has never had a low seed/bad team in the playoffs.... let alone nearly beating the champs with one.. instead, he loses to trannies with favored 1 seeds.. pretty big difference

[3ball]

:roll: This needs to be added to the dumbest things said on ISH thread. Who was carrying LeBron in '07? Boobie Gibson one game

Lebron 2nd round - 24.7 on 42.3%

Lebron ecf - 25.7 on 44.9%


So hardly "carrying", and not comparable to what MJ needed to make Finals... :confusedshrug:

[FKAri]

1st - 3rd year MJ is prime MJ now.

Bran stans aren't even trying anymore :facepalm
At 24 years old you're in your prime.

[tamaraw08]

Mo Will in 2009 ECF:. 18 ppg on 38%
Pippen. in 1989 ECF:.10 ppg on 40%


Yet MJ took the champion Pistons 6 games with his 6-seeded bulls, while lebron lost to a nobody team with his heavily-favored 1 seed

Again, lebron has never had a low seed/bad team in the playoffs.... let alone nearly beating the champs with one.. instead, he loses to trannies with favored 1 seeds.. pretty big difference

I freaking love it when you keep mentioning Pippen's 10 pts/game IGNORING THE FACT THAT he played ONE FREAKING MINUTE IN GAME 6 WITH ZERO SHOTS at SOPHOMORE 23 yrs old btw still trying to figure out his role AND COMPARING HIM TO A 6 YR VET
this is CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF MANIPULATION OF FACTS.
I hated HeYo's assertion of Kobe's low finals ave bec he too played 5 mins vs the Pacers...
BTW you keep mentioning the Lebron's team had inferior teamwork and yet had a ORTG OF 110 as compared to MJ's bulls ORTG of 103

[tamaraw08]

The actual results tell the story

lebron had weak teamwork because he lost to the underdog Magic, who won with teamwork and brand of ball, not favored talent

Otoh, MJ won via teamwork by beating higher seeds in every round, before nearly beating the champs

Also, pippen had a 0.08 ws/48 in 1989, versus Mo Williams' 0.165.... We know those numbers accurately reflect each player's ability to contribute because Pippen grew into a great contributor.. so his 89' struggles and inferior contribution to Mo was because pippen simply young and sucked at that time... :confusedshrug:

Lebron's team has weak teamwork? Their ORTG was 110 as compared to Bull's 103. :facepalm
Magic won on insane shooting as they shot 40% from the 3pt area as a team which generated 186 pts on just 152 shots. 3 of their top players shot over 39% aside from Alston who shot 37% with a team TS of almost 60%. Maybe if Mo and other teammates could play better defense, things might be different.
The point is you are very wrong again in saying Lebron's teamwork was weak and you can divert again by the lack of defense, yet you make another thread again about Lebron's team's offense