Imagine the outrage if this happened today...

[AussieSteve]

Imagine the outrage in the following scenario...


Giannis (or Harden, Kawhi or Steph, or ... whoever your pick for MVP is this season) receives the most first place MVP votes at season's end, with 42, and LeBron receives the second most, with 30.

But there are a few LeBron stan media voters who really want LeBron to win, and furthermore really don't want Giannis to win for whatever reason. So as well putting LeBron first on their ballot, they completely leave Giannis out so he doesn't get any of their minor place votes. Instead they give someone who has literally no chance at the MVP a place vote... like Kyle Lowry.

The end result is that LeBron wins narrowly over Giannis, despite having 40% fewer first place votes.

What would be the reaction? I think the NBA world would go beserk if this happened today.

Well, this is exactly what happened in 1990, when Barkley had 40% more 1st place votes than Magic, but a bunch of west coast voters completely left him off their ballot, instead giving place votes to guys like Buck Williams. Three voters also left Jordan off their ballot to bolster Magic's chances. Literally the most undeserving MVP in history. It was, without a word of hyperbole, rigged by voters for Magic to win.

[And1AllDay]

I never knew about that Magic MVP being tainted thank you for the info :cheers:

[ImKobe]

Magic led the Lakers to 63 wins(best in the league) vs Barkley's 53(2nd in EC).

22/7/12/2 on 63%TS vs. 25/12/4 66%TS

I have to give Magic the edge here purely on numbers and wins... Best player on the best team.

Both teams lost in the 2nd round, but Jordan absolutely annihilated the Sixers, averaging 43/7/7/4 on 62%TS.

[Akrazotile]

It's interesting, frankly, because CHarles' nickname is "Sir Cumference" and so is Lebron's, albeit for entirely different reasons.

Anyway if it happened this year with Sir Cumference you could definitely understand it, given how much he deserves it. The voters who "fixed" it to allow him to win would actually be simply counter-balancing other lower-IQ voters and it would be appropriate.

But definitely sucks for Sir Cumference that he lost out to Magic in '90 and finished with only one MVP. I think in fairness we can agree unofficially that he is in the 2 MVP club and therefore has more than Kobe, and should arguably be ranked higher than him all time.

[Akrazotile]

Magic led the Lakers to 63 wins(best in the league) vs Barkley's 53(2nd in EC).

22/7/12/2 on 63%TS vs. 25/12/4 66%TS

I have to give Magic the edge here purely on numbers and wins... Best player on the best team.

Both teams lost in the 2nd round, but Jordan absolutely annihilated the Sixers, averaging 43/7/7/4 on 62%TS.


Okay, well then Lebron deserves like 12 MVP's.

:confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffen]

It's interesting, frankly, because CHarles' nickname is "Sir Cumference" and so is Lebron's, albeit for entirely different reasons.

Anyway if it happened this year with Sir Cumference you could definitely understand it, given how much he deserves it. The voters who "fixed" it to allow him to win would actually be simply counter-balancing other lower-IQ voters and it would be appropriate.

But definitely sucks for Sir Cumference that he lost out to Magic in '90 and finished with only one MVP. I think in fairness we can agree unofficially that he is in the 2 MVP club and therefore has more than Kobe, and should arguably be ranked higher than him all time.


you do realize the same bias happened to kobe in 06 where a dozen guys left kobe off their ballot right?

[ImKobe]

Okay, well then Lebron deserves like 12 MVP's.

:confusedshrug:
Didn't Lebron win MVP every time he put up 60+ wins? (09, 10, 13, 2012 his team was at a 60-win pace IIRC)

What's the outrage here? Do you think he deserved MVP when he won 50 games on stacked teams?

Kobe would be 4x MVP if it was only about being the best player in the league.

[AussieSteve]

Magic led the Lakers to 63 wins(best in the league) vs Barkley's 53(2nd in EC).

22/7/12/2 on 63%TS vs. 25/12/4 66%TS

I have to give Magic the edge here purely on numbers and wins... Best player on the best team.

Both teams lost in the 2nd round, but Jordan absolutely annihilated the Sixers, averaging 43/7/7/4 on 62%TS.

I'm not necessarily arguing that Barkley was clearly better or more deserving than Magic. Magic was a by far the best player on the team with the best record in the league.

It's more just the way it happened. At the time, clearly there were more voters who thought Barkley was the MVP. But intentionally biased voting by others skewed the outcome. That is what's unjust.

[keep-itreal]

It's interesting, frankly, because CHarles' nickname is "Sir Cumference" and so is Lebron's, albeit for entirely different reasons.

Anyway if it happened this year with Sir Cumference you could definitely understand it, given how much he deserves it. The voters who "fixed" it to allow him to win would actually be simply counter-balancing other lower-IQ voters and it would be appropriate.

But definitely sucks for Sir Cumference that he lost out to Magic in '90 and finished with only one MVP. I think in fairness we can agree unofficially that he is in the 2 MVP club and therefore has more than Kobe, and should arguably be ranked higher than him all time.
:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

I believe several Canadian writers left Shaq off the ballot in 05 for Nash.

[Marchesk]

I believe several Canadian writers left Shaq off the ballot in 05 for Nash.

Kind of makes me angry. Should just have the five consensus players in contention for MVP, and then the voters rank them. That way, you can't leave a Barkley, Kobe or Shaq off the list, when clearly they were a strong contender that year.

[Psileas]

Imagine the outrage in the following scenario...



What would be the reaction? I think the NBA world would go beserk if this happened today.

Well, this is exactly what happened in 1990, when Barkley had 40% more 1st place votes than Magic, but a bunch of west coast voters completely left him off their ballot, instead giving place votes to guys like Buck Williams. Three voters also left Jordan off their ballot to bolster Magic's chances. Literally the most undeserving MVP in history. It was, without a word of hyperbole, rigged by voters for Magic to win.

1) Magic was also left off the top 5 of two voters in that same voting, so I don't get the big deal. In general, I don't think it was rigged and, even if there was some kind of pro-Magic bias in the late 80's, it only makes up for the anti-Magic and general anti-passing/anti-PG bias that existed in his early years, when the whole "it's still Kareem's team" perception was leaving him way below his real value in MVP votings, as if, among else, his game didn't play a huge role in the extension of Kareem's career.

2) You should see what the heck was going on in MVP votings before the 80's. Some of the most dominant MVP seasons ever weren't even getting even 0.800 MVP shares. Which is why "career MVP shares" is among the absolutely crappiest criteria for GOAT in existence.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Imagine the outrage in the following scenario...



What would be the reaction? I think the NBA world would go beserk if this happened today.

Well, this is exactly what happened in 1990, when Barkley had 40% more 1st place votes than Magic, but a bunch of west coast voters completely left him off their ballot, instead giving place votes to guys like Buck Williams. Three voters also left Jordan off their ballot to bolster Magic's chances. Literally the most undeserving MVP in history. It was, without a word of hyperbole, rigged by voters for Magic to win.

Fans of the West coast/Lakers irrationally and unfairly ranking and assessing players and rigging a vote? Who knew? I mean, surely this was just an isolated incident. It certainly didn't happen from 1996 to 2016. No way!

California is home to some of the most delusional and smug people in the United States and it's certainly not limited to sports, lol.

[3ball]

How was MJ not the real MVP in 90'?


Best raw stats:. 34/7/6 on 53%

Best advanced:. #1 in PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP


#1 in everything

[Kblaze8855]

You know in 95 MJ got 1 second place vote, 1 4th, and 2 5ths for his 17 games?

[And1AllDay]

You know in 95 MJ got 1 second place vote, 1 4th, and 2 5ths for his 17 games?

:eek:

[AussieSteve]

I believe several Canadian writers left Shaq off the ballot in 05 for Nash.

Voters who do this kind of thing should lose their vote future MVPs.

At least with voting made public now, I suppose it's less likely to happen these days.

[Lebronxrings]

you know the thread would actually be interesting if you didn't have to include your terrible lebron agenda into it. Lebron fan media? Are you stupid man

[Skip_Bayless]

All this tells us is that MVP voting is flawed. That's why is so entertaining when LeBron supporters try to bring up his number of MVPs to support their agenda while the rest of the viewers use the eye test to determine what is considered a winning brand of basketball.

[Gus Hemmingway]

All this tells us is that MVP voting is flawed. That's why is so entertaining when LeBron supporters try to bring up his number of MVPs to support their agenda while the rest of the viewers use the eye test to determine what is considered a winning brand of basketball.

Lebron's impact and greatness is broadcast on the most fundamental, user friendly frequency.


He plays = record skyrockets

He doesn't = record plummets


or simplified...


He come = dey good

He go = dey bad


It's this very simple formula that drives you gerbils into a infinite mental paradox loop

[AussieSteve]

you know the thread would actually be interesting if you didn't have to include your terrible lebron agenda into it. Lebron fan media? Are you stupid man

No agenda. Just a hypothetical to imagine.

Exchange LeBron's name for someone else's if you like. But 90% of ppl on ISH can only discuss NBA if it somehow relates to LeBron.