Is Lebron overrated as a passer?

[Walk on Water]

I keep hearing about how he

[STATUTORY]

high assist numbers =/= great passing

there's nothing great about barreling towards the basket and dishing out to the open man. it's as basic as it gets

[Meticode]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]Kobe and Jordan don

[jstern]

I often think about this when it comes to Lebron and his assists. Are his teams ever rated best in the league like a Magic Johnson? I really don't know so would like someone to look it up.

[SpaceJam]

Have almost as many assists?

Kobe 4.7 career apg
MJ 5.3 career apg



LeBron 7.2 career apg

You were so close OP, chalk this one up as another moment in OP's life where he had nothing better to do than think of the man he supposedly hates

[SouBeachTalents]

Walking with autism :roll:

[Angel Face]

No, It is his best offensive asset. Problem with him is he holds the the ball too much wasting precious shot clock

[jstern]

Have almost as many assists?

Kobe 4.7 career apg
MJ 5.3 career apg



LeBron 7.2 career apg

You were so close OP, chalk this one up as another moment in OP's life where he had nothing better to do than think of the man he supposedly hates
That's pretty good considering how much longer Lebron spends with the ball in his hands. The time when Jordan held the ball as long as Lebron he averaged around 11 assists per game. And when Kobe played PG, he was averaging something like 14 assists per game.

[Walk on Water]

Have almost as many assists?

Kobe 4.7 career apg
MJ 5.3 career apg



LeBron 7.2 career apg

You were so close OP, chalk this one up as another moment in OP's life where he had nothing better to do than think of the man he supposedly hates

Lebron leads Jordan by less than 2 assists per game? Yet he handles the ball much more like a point guard? I thought Lebron wasn’t a scorer. Then what is he?

[Skip_Bayless]

No, It is his best offensive asset. Problem with him is he holds the the ball too much wasting precious shot clock

His best offensive asset is 7.2 apg.

Imagine that.

And stat nerds wonder why he only has 3 rings in 9 attempts.

[ArbitraryWater]

I often think about this when it comes to Lebron and his assists. Are his teams ever rated best in the league like a Magic Johnson? I really don't know so would like someone to look it up.

The 2012 and 2013 Heat have the 2 best offenses ever via eFG% until the KD Warriors came along, so, yes.

[72-10]

Only in two senses.

[Walk on Water]

His best offensive asset is 7.2 apg.

Imagine that.

And stat nerds wonder why he only has 3 rings in 9 attempts.



lol that doesn

[jstern]

The 2012 and 2013 Heat have the 2 best offenses ever via eFG% until the KD Warriors came along, so, yes.
I'm checking the stats.

Heat
2011: 26 in the league in assists
2012: 22 in the league in assists

Though in 2013 they were number 7.

The Chicago Bulls in 97 were number 2, behind Utah. But shouldn't they be worse since Jordan average two assists less per game? Isn't that the logical conclusion, according to stan logic?

Why did Jordan teams average more assists, even though Lebron average more assist than Jordan or Pippen?

Even the 09 Champions Lakers with Kobe were number two.

Maybe with Lebron holding the ball for so long, the ball doesn't get passed around as efficiently. Maybe that's part of the reason why he's 3-6 despite his stats.

[aj1987]

I'm checking the stats.

Heat
2011: 26 in the league in assists
2012: 22 in the league in assists

Though in 2013 they were number 7.

The Chicago Bulls in 97 were number 2, behind Utah. But shouldn't they be worse since Jordan average two assists less per game? Isn't that the logical conclusion, according to stan logic?

Why did Jordan teams average more assists, even though Lebron average more assist than Jordan or Pippen?

Even the 09 Champions Lakers with Kobe were number two.

Maybe with Lebron holding the ball for so long, the ball doesn't get passed around as efficiently. Maybe that's part of the reason why he's 3-6 despite his stats.
Yeah, LeBron passing around the ball would've won him championships in '07, '11, '14, '15, '17, and '18. ****ing retard.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

hes a good passer but overrated when u consider time of possession and his passing game mostly is used to create scoring opportunities for himself and open driving lanes

his passing isnt in the same stratosphere as alltime PGs like Magic, Oscar, Nash, CP etc or even guys like Bird, Sabonis, Jokic etc when u consider how it affects the whole team

[aj1987]

hes a good passer but overrated when u consider time of possession and his passing game mostly is used to create scoring opportunities for himself and open driving lanes

his passing isnt in the same stratosphere as alltime PGs like Magic, Oscar, Nash, CP etc or even guys like Bird, Sabonis, Jokic etc when u consider how it affects the whole team
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


The resident retard strikes again.

[TheImmortal]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


The resident retard strikes again.Kid, Can you shut your hoe ass up for a minute and let the adults in here talk. :facepalm

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


The resident retard strikes again.

lol @ Bran being a better passer than Sabonis and specially Larry fcking Bird:roll: :roll:

stick to kwik e mart Apu:lol

and hes never had a passing season on current Jokic level or even last year TBH.

top 3 assist team this season and its mostly defensive players on the team with no allstar caliber guys. Bran teams were consistently mediocre passing teams often times in the average to below average range and sometimes even in the 20s.

Brans passing simply doesnt have the same impact on his teams as these other guys do. Holding and dominating the ball and cannibalizing possessions to get drive and kick to shooters isnt very reliable

[90sgoat]

Lebron on the same passing level as Larry Bird?!!

Fcking sacrilege man:biggums:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Lebron on the same passing level as Larry Bird?!!

Fcking sacrilege man:biggums:

u can tell who the retards and kids are who havent watched some legends with how they talk about their games

Bird was as good as anyone if we talking strictly passing.

Post passing, post entry pass, outlets, bounce and touch passes, cross court, no look,. bounce pass, overhad pass, wrap around, in pick and roll, transition etc. he was elite at every aspect and he didnt need to hold the ball for 16 seconds to create a play to pass out a basic one to

literally the only aspect of passing Bran does better is driving and kicking out and maybe the no look

[Gileraracer]

Nearly everyting about Lebron is overrated.


Except the flopping, he's really good at that.

[aj1987]

Kid, Can you shut your hoe ass up for a minute and let the adults in here talk. :facepalm
Keep melting, fruitcake. The only use the world has for you is when you donate your brain for autism research.


lol @ Bran being a better passer than Sabonis and specially Larry fcking Bird:roll:
Well, you would think that, because you have the mental capacity of a retarded ape. :cheers:

Sabonis has literally zero argument over LeBron as a passer.


stick to kwik e mart Apu:lol
You're a black dude and a mentally challenged one at that. You really don't want to get into it with others. :oldlol:


and hes never had a passing season on current Jokic level or even last year TBH.
A broad blanket statement. Let me try.

Larry Bird has never has a passing season like LeBron's last couple of seasons. Ever.


top 3 assist team this season and its mostly defensive players on the team with no allstar caliber guys. Bran teams were consistently mediocre passing teams often times in the average to below average range and sometimes even in the 20s.
They're 2nd in the league in APG and yet, they're not a top 5 offense in the league. Bird's teams were top 5 in APG only 3 times during his entire career. They were out of the top 10 multiple times. Does that make Curry/Kobe better passers than Larry Bird?

LeBron's teams on average have a rank of 6th (IIRC) in ORth. An average rank of ~#4, since '09.


Brans passing simply doesnt have the same impact on his teams as these other guys do. Holding and dominating the ball and cannibalizing possessions to get drive and kick to shooters isnt very reliable
Except for the FACT that LeBron's teams were almost always elite offensively (since '09). An average rank of #4 in the league since '09


u can tell who the retards and kids are who havent watched some legends with how they talk about their games

Bird was as good as anyone if we talking strictly passing.

Post passing, post entry pass, outlets, bounce and touch passes, cross court, no look,. bounce pass, overhad pass, wrap around, in pick and roll, transition etc. he was elite at every aspect and he didnt need to hold the ball for 16 seconds to create a play to pass out a basic one to

literally the only aspect of passing Bran does better is driving and kicking out and maybe the no look
This is beyond hilarious. This literally proves that you have nor idea what you're talking about. :roll:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355112

Get educated, you ****ing idiot.

[BigShotBob]

"Sabonis has literally zero argument"

Apu is at it again.

[aj1987]

"Sabonis has literally zero argument"

What ****ing argument does Sabonis have over LeBron, shit for brains? :oldlol:


Apu is at it again.
I mean, exposing you ******s isn't really that hard.

[BigShotBob]

What ****ing argument does Sabonis have over LeBron, shit for brains? :oldlol:


I mean, exposing you ******s isn't really that hard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BTpGYJj0CW8/UoaVvx6Kf6I/AAAAAAAAAHc/mkpbCSjWL8c/s1600/Arvydas+Sabonis+1.gi
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3-C7DRg_4Y8/UoaYOkYkuFI/AAAAAAAAAHk/XMH_Noho3a0/s1600/Arvydas+Sabonis+2.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SneakyHideousBeardeddragon-small.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EmbarrassedFickleDoe-size_restricted.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BothRecentIguana-small.gif

"No argument"

[aj1987]

"No argument"
A couple of GIF's are supposed to prove that he's in the same realm of LeBron as a passer? I can literally post hundreds of LeBron GIF's, which make him look like the GOAT passer.

Lets start with a couple:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2598929/lemvpgoathofjames_medium.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/931373/wadej.gif
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1722823/leusa.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3930559/lepasstobattier.gif
http://i.gyazo.com/677f3bfc2a2221496c4fa76a725c0d68.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/cEYFeDInNuHzdGMFjag/giphy.gif

If you think Sabonis is LeBron level as a passer, you shouldn't be allowed access to a computer, to spread your batshit insanity.

[HylianNightmare]

Very overrated nothing great about watching someone stand around and dribble the basketball for 14 seconds and then just make an easy pass

[Marchesk]

nothing great about watching someone stand around and dribble the basketball for 14 seconds and then just make an easy pass

Harden's worse. But whatever works for a team.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Very good passer but as mentioned already he handles the ball a ridiculous amount. There's way more to evaluating passing ability than just looking at APG

Bird and Sabonis may not have been better players but they absolutely were better passers, for starters.

[superduper]

Jesus AJ is an absolute moron :oldlol:

Forget Sabonis, Jokic is a better passer than Bran has ever been.

[Real14]

He definitely is.

[Manny98]

A couple of GIF's are supposed to prove that he's in the same realm of LeBron as a passer? I can literally post hundreds of LeBron GIF's, which make him look like the GOAT passer.

Lets start with a couple:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2598929/lemvpgoathofjames_medium.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/931373/wadej.gif
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1722823/leusa.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3930559/lepasstobattier.gif
http://i.gyazo.com/677f3bfc2a2221496c4fa76a725c0d68.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/cEYFeDInNuHzdGMFjag/giphy.gif

If you think Sabonis is LeBron level as a passer, you shouldn't be allowed access to a computer, to spread your batshit insanity.
I don't see anyone but maybe Magic pulling off these types of passes

Btw LeBron could easily average 12apg but he's a scorer so he doesn't

[PP34Deuce]

There's been a lot of amazing passers in the NBA. Why discredit guys just to prop up one or two guys?

Pure passers to me are: Rondo, Magic, CP3, Zeke Thomas, Stockton

Those guys are the cut above all in my eyes.

Sabonis, Bird, could make every pass but they were much more useful other ways.

[PP34Deuce]

I don't see anyone but maybe Magic pulling off these types of passes

Btw LeBron could easily average 12apg but he's a scorer so he doesn't


Lebron doesn't have the patience to act like a true PG. I agree with you that he can make every pass with even faster execution but he's a scorer with elite passing ability like you said. Shaq one time said that Lebron was basically Magic/ Karl Malone/ Shaq/ and a little of MJ all in one. I kind of agree with that.

[andgar923]

I think Bron is overrated as a passer.

Let me explain.

His decision making and timing is why I believe he's overrated. He simply holds on to the ball far too long. There is no true flow to how he runs the offence, it's mostly very stagnant.

Another knock is that he doesn't 'create' for his teammates as much. Anyone can drive and kick, that's not really creating. Creating is finding ways to get the ball to teammates and yes it does involve driving but not just driving and kicking out.

Not to say that he doesn't do any of what I mentioned, he simply doesn't do as a consistent job as Bird, Magic, Stockton, etc.

Someone mentioned the Bulls and MJ.

MJ is a great example of someone that created, had great timing, and kept the flow of the offence moving. He didn't need to hold on to the ball for 10 seconds and dribble 20 times to get something done, he simply created a situation for his team. And as a result of MJ's ability to create and move the ball it created opportunities for his team thus creating more team assists. They weren't as dependent of him.

[PP34Deuce]

I think Bron is overrated as a passer.

Let me explain.

His decision making and timing is why I believe he's overrated. He simply holds on to the ball far too long. There is no true flow to how he runs the offence, it's mostly very stagnant.

Another knock is that he doesn't 'create' for his teammates as much. Anyone can drive and kick, that's not really creating. Creating is finding ways to get the ball to teammates and yes it does involve driving but not just driving and kicking out.

Not to say that he doesn't do any of what I mentioned, he simply doesn't do as a consistent job as Bird, Magic, Stockton, etc.

Someone mentioned the Bulls and MJ.

MJ is a great example of someone that created, had great timing, and kept the flow of the offence moving. He didn't need to hold on to the ball for 10 seconds and dribble 20 times to get something done, he simply created a situation for his team. And as a result of MJ's ability to create and move the ball it created opportunities for his team thus creating more team assists. They weren't as dependent of him.


Triangle offense is a system where people know their places. the offense moving is a matter of the offense in place itself. That comes from actual coaching.

Don't want to get into Bran Ball and all the trolling, but that's a difference.

[FKAri]

There's been a lot of amazing passers in the NBA. Why discredit guys just to prop up one or two guys?

Pure passers to me are: Rondo, Magic, CP3, Zeke Thomas, Stockton

Those guys are the cut above all in my eyes.

Sabonis, Bird, could make every pass but they were much more useful other ways.
Nash? I also felt Rubio was a tremendously gifted passer. For a guy who can't shoot and isn't much of a threat off the dribble, it's amazing he could get any dimes at all.

[andgar923]

Triangle offense is a system where people know their places. the offense moving is a matter of the offense in place itself. That comes from actual coaching.

Don't want to get into Bran Ball and all the trolling, but that's a difference.

I agree on the triangle. But Bron couldn't play in that system because he can't move without the ball, can't create and doesn't have the timing necessary to play in the triangle.

Honestly, Luke Walton and Lamar Odom are better passers than Lebron. They have great timing, instincts, and can create better than Bron.

Going back to MJ... the triangle helped the Bulls, but he didn't need it to be a great passer. He was a great passer before the triangle was installed in the Bulls' offence.

[Round Mound]

Very good passer but as mentioned already he handles the ball a ridiculous amount. There's way more to evaluating passing ability than just looking at APG

Bird and Sabonis may not have been better players but they absolutely were better passers, for starters.

Agree on the passing part but a 1979-1986 Bird was as good or better than Lebron (team play wise). Sabonis 1986 before injuries was a atleast a top 10 center of all time.

[nayte]

I don't think he was an overrated passer. I think he is brilliant at that but I hate how people use assists for their agendas both for and against LeBron. And that goes for all players it's a silly way to rate that topic.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lebron is a skillled passer, but those numbers are inflated due to the sheer amount of shooters/spacing he's played with on the court.

Not much skill to get an assist off of Ray Allen on Kyle Korver...who are both top 5 in 3 point makes in NBA history.

It's not the same as Kidd, Nash, Bird, Sabonis, or Stockton regardless of what the numbers say.

[Walk on Water]

I don't see anyone but maybe Magic pulling off these types of passes

Btw LeBron could easily average 12apg but he's a scorer so he doesn't


Westbrook lead the league in scoring the same year he averaged a triple double so don

[jstern]

Yeah, LeBron passing around the ball would've won him championships in '07, '11, '14, '15, '17, and '18. ****ing retard.

You seem highly triggered, just reading all your posts. Seems like you're having an emotional breakdown.

And no, I did not say anything about Lebron passing the ball more in my post, not sure where you got that from. I thought my post was pretty clear. But rather, if Lebron had more of an off the ball game, and did not have to rely so much on simply holding the ball for long periods of times to get his stats, then maybe his teams would be playing a more dynasty type of basketball, rather than flip of the coin, get lucky and win one year and then lose the other.

[Bronbron23]

He is by some like the nick wrights of the world who say he passes like magic. LeBron's a very good passer for someone his size. Not the best but still pretty good.

[Overdrive]

A couple of GIF's are supposed to prove that he's in the same realm of LeBron as a passer? I can literally post hundreds of LeBron GIF's, which make him look like the GOAT passer.

Lets start with a couple:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2598929/lemvpgoathofjames_medium.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/931373/wadej.gif
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1722823/leusa.gif
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3930559/lepasstobattier.gif
http://i.gyazo.com/677f3bfc2a2221496c4fa76a725c0d68.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/cEYFeDInNuHzdGMFjag/giphy.gif

If you think Sabonis is LeBron level as a passer, you shouldn't be allowed access to a computer, to spread your batshit insanity.

These highlight the criticism about Lebrons passing. No swinging here, just dribbling and then passing to a cutting guy. Yeah, they look sweet, but those aren't the passes that keep an offense flowing.

The '12 finals showed what he'd be capable of doing if he let's the offense come to him. I think that performance was better than '16.

[PeroAntic]

Lebron is an elite passer. He can see the floor and throw a bullet pass with maximum accuracy with perfect timing. If it wasn't for his passing ability in addition to being such an athletic freak he wouldn't be top 5 player ever.

[Hey Yo]

These highlight the criticism about Lebrons passing. No swinging here, just dribbling and then passing to a cutting guy. Yeah, they look sweet, but those aren't the passes that keep an offense flowing.

The '12 finals showed what he'd be capable of doing if he let's the offense come to him. I think that performance was better than '16.
Magic made a career out of doing that and most think he's the best PG of all time.

[aj1987]

Lebron is a skillled passer, but those numbers are inflated due to the sheer amount of shooters/spacing he's played with on the court.

Not much skill to get an assist off of Ray Allen on Kyle Korver...who are both top 5 in 3 point makes in NBA history.

It's not the same as Kidd, Nash, Bird, Sabonis, or Stockton regardless of what the numbers say.
LeBron as a 18 year old rookie averaged 6 assists a games with the worst 3pt shooting team (shot made and percentage wise) in the league.


You seem highly triggered, just reading all your posts. Seems like you're having an emotional breakdown.
Yeah, when facts hurt your feelings, this is the response you come up with. You went from being a sort of decent poster to kenneth and 32-24 level stupidity. This is what usually happens when a player you do not particularly like ruins your tiny little mind.


And no, I did not say anything about Lebron passing the ball more in my post
That's literally what you actually said though. You said that LeBron shouldn't have the ball as long as he does. That means that he doesn't pass it enough and monopolizes.


not sure where you got that from.
From your post which I quoted. Not that hard to go back and read your own post.



But rather, if Lebron had more of an off the ball game, and did not have to rely so much on simply holding the ball for long periods of times
Tell this to any ATG coach and he'd call you a moron and slap the retard out of you. LeBron is arguably the best passer in the league (and one of the best passers ever) and one of the best scorers in the league (one of the best scorers ever as well). You want to take the ball out of his hand and make him play off-ball? Do you want Mo/West/Delly/Kyrie/Chalmers/Shump/JR/etc. to run the offense over LeBron?

Are you also one of those dudes who hoped Stockton/CP3/Magic/Nash/etc. played more off-ball and gave the ball to their teammates more?

Maybe Nash/Stockton/CP3/etc. would've had multiple championships if they played off-ball more, right?


to get his stats
Yeah, because LeBron cares more about his stats than winning. :facepalm



then maybe his teams would be playing a more dynasty type of basketball, rather than flip of the coin, get lucky and win one year and then lose the other.
2007- LeBron and trash vs PRIME/PEAK Duncan, TP, Manu, etc..

2011 - LeBron choked. Not argument from me.

2012 - Wade was injured and so was Bosh. Missed games in the PO's as well.

2013 - Wade was a shell of himself and the Heat going for the streak ruined Bosh and Wade during the PO's. Injuries.

2014 - Wade was a shell of himself and Bosh was pretty much done.

4 straight Finals and 2 championships. Would've been 3, if it wasn't for the choke.

2015 - Injured Kyrie and Love. You think your man crush was going to win a title without Pippen/Grant and Pippen/Rodman? LeBron still took his team to 6 games against a 67 win team.

2017 - 2 MVP's, a DPOY, and another All-NBA player.

2018 - :oldlol:

Can you tell me which one he was supposed to win (outside 2011), just by playing off-ball more?


These highlight the criticism about Lebrons passing. No swinging here, just dribbling and then passing to a cutting guy. Yeah, they look sweet, but those aren't the passes that keep an offense flowing.

The '12 finals showed what he'd be capable of doing if he let's the offense come to him. I think that performance was better than '16.
And yet, since 2009 - 2018, LeBron's teams, on average, have ranked ~4 in the league in terms of offense. Literally no team in the league keeps "swinging" the ball on every possession. No team in history has does that either. As I said, try watching games.

Go through this thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355112

I can keep posting those videos and links for ages.


Jesus AJ is an absolute moron :oldlol:

Forget Sabonis, Jokic is a better passer than Bran has ever been.
As I told you before, go play in traffic, kid. The World doesn't need your level of autism and stupidity.


His decision making and timing is why I believe he's overrated. He simply holds on to the ball far too long. There is no true flow to how he runs the offence, it's mostly very stagnant
You only think he's overrated because LeBron is a legit threat to the guy you literally worship.

Lets talk about some FACTS. Last season, LeBron was #3 in scoring and #2 in assists. However, he was not even top 10 in terms of time of possession per game. The Cavs were 5th in league in ORth. 5th best offense in the league with whatever LeBron had last season.


Honestly, Luke Walton and Lamar Odom are better passers than Lebron. They have great timing, instincts, and can create better than Bron.
Good lord. You're a ****ing idiot.

[And1AllDay]

high assist numbers =/= great passing

there's nothing great about barreling towards the basket and dishing out to the open man. it's as basic as it gets

Oh for sure it is super easy everyone can do it I'm sure MJ has done it a bunch of times

Season with 7 apg or higher

LeBron: 11
Jordan: 3

Close :pimp:

[Walk on Water]

Oh for sure it is super easy everyone can do it I'm sure MJ has done it a bunch of times

Season with 7 apg or higher

LeBron: 11
Jordan: 3

Close :pimp:


Lebron plays point forward. Why is he only averaging 7?

[ShawkFactory]

These highlight the criticism about Lebrons passing. No swinging here, just dribbling and then passing to a cutting guy. Yeah, they look sweet, but those aren't the passes that keep an offense flowing.

The '12 finals showed what he'd be capable of doing if he let's the offense come to him. I think that performance was better than '16.
There's no highlights of people swinging the ball around. It happens all game...

Those were all highlights of him getting a teammate an easy bucket from a very difficult position. I don't know how that can be a criticism. They're 3 second gifs...not videos of him holding the ball for 15 seconds and then passing to a "bail out" shooter.

[pauk]

I think he is more like underrated, his passing skills / vision is one of the best ive ever seen, he is overrated only if you think he is the best passer ever...

Now.... you seem to be talking about assists... a PG can start the game, play 48 mins and do nothing but get rid of the ball like a hot potato... entire season.... and average 10 apg.... you cant measure passing skills like that... passing ability evaluation is completely visual, you have to see it with your own eyes....

Lebron could have averaged 10+++ apg EASY if he wanted to, all he would have to do was sacrificing some shots/points per game OR START POINT-GUARD (I know you want to say he plays like one anyways as a Point-Forward, but he really doesnt bring the ball up/orchestrate the offense ENTIRE GAME), much of the time he works off the ball aswell... not sure it would result with better game outcomes tho, especially when considering ALL his rosters required him to be agressive scoring wise (while doing everything else)...


As far as Harden/Westbrook goes, both are starting PG's and one of them is one of the most blatant statpadders in NBA history....