Is Scottie Pippen a top ten player of the 1990s?

[72-10]

Can you name ten players who you think are greater in the 90s?

[FKAri]

I'll actually say yes because I know it'll give 3ball a ****ing fit.

[Odinn]

Let's try;
Jordan, Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, O'Neal
That's 7.
Then you have; Payton, Miller, Stockton, Richmond, Hardaway, Rice.
I think Pippen was a top 10 player in the '90s.

[tpols]

Jordan
Hakeem
Robinson
Shaq
Barkley
Ewing
Karl Malone
Clyde Drexler
Stockton
Reggie


nope.

[72-10]

he might be like #9 at best that's what I'll say

Jordan
Olajuwon
David Robinson
Shaq
Barkley
Malone
Ewing
Stockton
Drexler

Miller
Payton
Penny Hardaway
Kemp/Grant Hill/Mitch
Pippen

he's kinda in this group or maybe #9

[Young X]

Jordan
Olajuwon
Robinson
Barkley
Malone
O'Neal

^ all clearly better

Then there's Ewing, Stockton, him, Payton, Drexler, Miller.

Probably the 8th or 9th best player.

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ
Hakeem
O’Neal
D-Rob
Barkley
Malone
Drexler
Ewing
Payton
Stockton

So no, but an argument can be made for him being 8 - 10 or not even at all.

Then in no order: Hill, Pippen and Penny

[SouBeachTalents]

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3. Malone
4. Robinson
5. Barkley
6. Shaq
7. Ewing

Pippen is somewhere in the 8-10 range

[Manny98]

Easily top 10

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3.Robinson
4. Malone
5. Barkley
6. Shaq
7. Pippen
8. Ewing
9. Drexler
10. Stockton

[72-10]

You'd have a tough time convincing me Drexler is top ten in the 90s - he fell off quite a bit as far as I remember in the second half of the decade.

[Dray n Klay]

Is Kyrie a Top 20 player in the 2010

[3ball]

.
1) Wade is top 10 of his era and considered > Pippen

2) Kyrie ranks higher in the playoffs and Finals, while Bosh/Love were far superior to MJ's 3rd options



Better

Shaq
Hakeem
DR
Barkley
Malone
Ewing
Duncan
Hill
Penny
Drexler
Stockton


Same/arguably better

Payton
Miller
Kidd
Webber
Mourning
Kemp
Dikembe
Garnett (98-99)
Kobe (98-99)
Dominique


I'm probably missing some.. Tim Hardaway, Strickland, Glenn Robinson, Mashburn, Rice, Spreewell, and others were just as good, certainly better offensively than pippen
.

[72-10]

Wade is better than Pippen and Bosh was better than Rodman/Grant...

[Ben Simmons 25]

[QUOTE=Dray n Klay]Is Kyrie a Top 20 player in the 2010

[Skip_Bayless]

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3. Robinson
4. Malone
5. Barkley
6. Shaq
7. Ewing
8. Drexler
9. Stockton
10. Mullin

Nope. Didn't make the cut. Mullin even out played him during their 1992 dream team run.

[SpaceJam]

3ball can never help himself, pathetic :roll:

[Smoke117]

Jordan
Hakeem
Robinson
Shaq
Barkley
Ewing
Karl Malone
Clyde Drexler
Stockton
Reggie


nope.

Anyone who thinks Reggie Miller was a better player than Scottie Pippen should just stop watching basketball. :roll:

[kennethgriffen]

Can you name ten players who you think are greater in the 90s?


Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Stockton
Robinson
Shaq


thats all i can say were definitively better


everyone else was either really good at the start or the end of the decade


Ewing and Pippen are close


can't just use peaks... its about the totality of the decade IMO



btw its sad that ISH continues to give little to no credit for a players defensive skills

[72-10]

Wow, I didn't know Mully was that great of an all-around player. I certainly know his shooting abilities. I guess he was lighting Pip up then?

[DaHeezy]

Pippen is the best small forward in the 90's if we measure by the entire decade. That's pretty much indisputable unless you count Barkley as a small forward. Maybe Nique, but his decline happened mid 90's

Pippen is also a top 2 perimeter defender after Gary Payton. Pippen was the only player to gaurd Barkley and Magic in the same playoffs.

So to sum it all up, yes top 10 definitely. You can't make this list and not take that into consideration.

[72-10]

Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Stockton
Robinson
Shaq


thats all i can say were definitively better


everyone else was either really good at the start or the end of the decade


Ewing and Pippen are close


can't just use peaks... its about the totality of the decade IMO



btw its sad that ISH continues to give little to no credit for a players defensive skills

forgot Barkley

[72-10]

Anyone who thinks Reggie Miller was a better player than Scottie Pippen should just stop watching basketball. :roll:

I beg to disagree. They should continue on with watching basketball.

[kennethgriffen]

forgot Barkley


barkley was a joke mid way through the 90s

this is about the entire decade right?


pippen was better from start to finish

[Skip_Bayless]

Wow, I didn't know Mully was that great of an all-around player. I certainly know his shooting abilities. I guess he was lighting Pip up then?

Five-time All-Star, four-time All-NBA selection, Hall of Fame. Only Michael Jordan and Karl Malone scored more points than Mullin from 1988-89 to 1991-92. He's also the fourth-highest-scoring lefty in NBA history behind David Robinson, Bob Lanier and Gail Goodrich.

[DaHeezy]

I beg to disagree. They should continue on with watching basketball.

You think Scottie is better than Lebron. So you're opinion doesn't matter. You should just stop watching life in general.

[72-10]

There's no way Pippen was better as a whole player than Barkley, even with Barkley tailing off a bit at the end of the decade. He was too good in the early to mid-90s, too well-rounded.

[72-10]

You think Scottie is better than Lebron. So you're opinion doesn't matter. You should just stop watching life in general.

Nah, I never said that.

[Skip_Bayless]

You think Scottie is better than Lebron. So you're opinion doesn't matter. You should just stop watching life in general.

Who is even talking about LeBron. LeBron didn't play in the 90's. Can you go one thread without bringing up LeBron in threads that have nothing to do with him? We get it.. you're triggered by having to settle for watching LeBron because you didn't get to see MJ play. Everything is going to be OK!

[kennethgriffen]

There's no way Pippen was better as a whole player than Barkley, even with Barkley tailing off a bit at the end of the decade. He was too good in the early to mid-90s, too well-rounded.


barkley was better than pippen as far as primes and careers go but half of his prime was in the 80s and this is just about the 90s


barkleys last 1st team all nba season was 1993



pippen on the other hand ( after that )


1993-94 All-Defensive (1st)
1993-94 All-NBA (1st)
1994-95 All-Defensive (1st)
1994-95 All-NBA (1st)
1995-96 All-Defensive (1st)
1995-96 All-NBA (1st)
1996-97 All-Defensive (1st)
1996-97 All-NBA (2nd)
1997-98 All-Defensive (1st)
1997-98 All-NBA (3rd)
1998-99 All-Defensive (1st)




and prior to that

1990-91 All-Defensive (2nd)
1991-92 All-Defensive (1st)
1991-92 All-NBA (2nd)
1992-93 All-Defensive (1st)
1992-93 All-NBA (3rd)


its obvious he was a much better player for the totality of the 90s

[72-10]

Barkley was a top 4-5 player in the league throughout the early-mid 90s, and you forget that he is one of the very greatest playoff performers of all time as well. He carried a team and was considerably better in the playoffs than Pippen.

[kennethgriffen]

Barkley was a top 4-5 player in the league throughout the early-mid 90s, and you forget that he is one of the very greatest playoff performers of all time as well. He carried a team and was considerably better in the playoffs than Pippen.


i'd say till 93 he was ... then 94/95 he was just a top 10 player... after that he was barely top 20

pippens just more valuable to a team for his skills on both ends


it takes an absolute prime offensive barkley to outshine the 2 way player pippen was and i just didn't see much of that prime barkley after his mvp season

[72-10]

Let's compare PER

Regular season - 1989-90-1994-95
Barkley - 25.8
Pippen - 20.5

Playoffs - 1990-1995
Barkley - 25.9
Pippen - 19.7

And if you were to make a list of the 100 greatest playoff performances of all time, Barkley would have about five-ten on the list, and Pippen would be lucky if he had one.

[DaHeezy]

Who is even talking about LeBron. LeBron didn't play in the 90's. Can you go one thread without bringing up LeBron in threads that have nothing to do with him? We get it.. you're triggered by having to settle for watching LeBron because you didn't get to see MJ play. Everything is going to be OK!

:lol
This idiot can't get Lebron out of his damn head he doesn't even know the context of why his name was brought up

Mods, this is what the NBA forum is diminished to. Dummies like Skip Bayless being a literal retard. But hey, money is more important than integrity.

[72-10]

Now another PER comparison for the decade as a whole.

1990s regular season
Barkley - 24.9
Pippen - 20.4

1990s playoffs
Barkley - 25.0
Pippen - 19.4

[kennethgriffen]

Let's compare PER

Regular season - 1989-90-1994-95
Barkley - 25.8
Pippen - 20.5

Playoffs - 1990-1995
Barkley - 25.9
Pippen - 19.7

And if you were to make a list of the 100 greatest playoff performances of all time, Barkley would have about five-ten on the list, and Pippen would be lucky if he had one.


PER is a horrible stat ... never use it again lol... chris paul is not the 7th greatest player ever like it proclaims


and yes from 1990 to 95 barkley was better overall ( could argue pippen over barkley for his 2 way shit in 94 and 95 IMO )


but thats just half the decade

[kennethgriffen]

Now another PER comparison for the decade as a whole.

1990s regular season
Barkley - 24.9
Pippen - 20.4

1990s playoffs
Barkley - 25.0
Pippen - 19.4


just more evidence PER is a horrible stat that doesn't give enough credit to defense/intangibles


and how can you lump in a guys playoff stats getting bumped early to a guy that almost always went the distance


plus pippen had to sacrifice. barkley didn't for half of the decade

[72-10]

PER is a horrible stat ... never use it again lol... chris paul is not the 7th greatest player ever like it proclaims


and yes from 1990 to 95 barkley was better overall ( could argue pippen over barkley for his 2 way shit in 94 and 95 IMO )


but thats just half the decade

No, it isn't. PER is a pretty accurate rate metric. Paul's career isn't done yet...

[Skip_Bayless]

:lol
This idiot can't get Lebron out of his damn head he doesn't even know the context of why his name was brought up

Mods, this is what the NBA forum is diminished to. Dummies like Skip Bayless being a literal retard. But hey, money is more important than integrity.

I don't need to know the context, I only need to know that you are bringing him up in a thread about Pippen and top 10 players in the 90's. No wonder why this forum can't have quality discussions.

Don't worry.... everything is going to be OK.

[72-10]

just more evidence PER is a horrible stat that doesn't give enough credit to defense/intangibles


and how can you lump in a guys playoff stats getting bumped early to a guy that almost always went the distance

Well, while there's no good way to completely factor in defensive impact, there's quite a large gap here with the PER, which definitely isn't made up by Pippen's defensive prowess. Barkley was more skilled and productive than Pippen.

Pippen was a good teammate but he still doesn't win intangibles because Barkley was a good teammate, too.

[SomeBlackDude]

the disrespect for zo mourning in this thread is shameful. :facepalm

and the answer to the op's question is no.

[DaHeezy]

I don't need to know the context, I only need to know that you are bringing him up in a thread about Pippen and top 10 players in the 90's. No wonder why this forum can't have quality discussions.

Don't worry.... everything is going to be OK.

Apparently not for you.

I do feel sorry for you. Your obsession for Lebron is extremely unhealthy. Stress is the main cause of heart disease and other life threatening conditions.

You're gonna die young :lol

Don't worry. Nobody will miss you

[kennethgriffen]

No, it isn't. PER is a pretty accurate rate metric. Paul's career isn't done yet...


PER doesn't account for empty stats, stat padding, playing on bad teams, being a defensive liability and just padding steals by shooting for passing lanes


analytics/advanced stats breeds cherry picking for rebounds, breeds stagnating an offense to dominate the ball

its a horrible metric that also doesn't factor in choking, whether you're a 1st or 2nd option etc...

it only measures minutes and not touches/opportunities


you only agree with it for the same reason lebron fans like the formula. jordans #1 all time in PER


however when you look at all the other guys its obviously a flawed formula


all the bolded are either way too high or way too low

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.64
3. Anthony Davis 27.41
4. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
5. David Robinson* 26.18
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
7. Chris Paul 25.44
8. Bob Pettit* 25.35
9. Kevin Durant 25.31
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Tim Duncan 24.22
14. Magic Johnson* 24.11
15. James Harden 23.99
16. Karl Malone* 23.90
17. Stephen Curry 23.88
18. Russell Westbrook 23.76
19. Dwyane Wade 23.70
20. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
21. Julius Erving* 23.58
22. Larry Bird* 23.50
23. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
24. Yao Ming* 23.02
25. Kobe Bryant 22.90
26. Jerry West* 22.89
27. Elgin Baylor* 22.69
28. Kevin Garnett 22.66
29. Dirk Nowitzki 22.59
30. DeMarcus Cousins 22.45
31. Blake Griffin 22.36
32. Tracy McGrady* 22.13
33. Moses Malone* 22.00
34. Dolph Schayes* 21.98
35. Kyrie Irving 21.97
36. Kevin Love 21.89
37. John Stockton* 21.83
38. Amar'e Stoudemire 21.82
39. Andre Drummond 21.70
40. Bob Lanier* 21.69
41. Dwight Howard 21.58
42. Dominique Wilkins* 21.56
43. Clyde Lovellette* 21.55
44. Adrian Dantley* 21.51
45. Harry Gallatin* 21.48
46. Artis Gilmore* 21.40
47. Pau Gasol 21.40
48. George Gervin* 21.38
49. Dan Issel* 21.37
50. Alonzo Mourning* 21.24
51. Damian Lillard 21.21
52. Clyde Drexler* 21.07
53. Rick Barry* 21.04
54. Patrick Ewing* 21.01
55. Chris Webber 20.94
56. Allen Iverson* 20.92
57. LaMarcus Aldridge 20.76
58. John Drew 20.74
59. Bob McAdoo* 20.73
60. Kevin Johnson 20.70
61. Al Jefferson 20.56
62. Chris Bosh 20.56
63. Elton Brand 20.51
64. George Yardley* 20.51
65. Ed Macauley* 20.39
66. Carmelo Anthony 20.27
67. Manu Ginobili 20.22
68. Brook Lopez 20.20
69. Larry Foust 20.19
70. Greg Monroe 20.12
71. Marques Johnson 20.11
72. John Brisker 20.11
73. Mel Daniels* 20.08
74. George McGinnis* 20.05
75. Billy Cunningham* 20.04
76. Kevin McHale* 20.02
77. Jimmy Butler 20.00
78. Steve Nash* 19.95
79. Larry Nance 19.92
80. David Thompson* 19.91
81. Connie Hawkins* 19.89
82. Alex English* 19.87
83. Walt Bellamy* 19.84
84. Cliff Hagan* 19.80
85. Bob Cousy* 19.76
86. Paul Pierce 19.73
87. Terrell Brandon 19.69
88. Paul Arizin* 19.66
89. Mark Price 19.62
90. John Beasley 19.59
91. Gilbert Arenas 19.57
92. Sam Cassell 19.48
93. Michael Redd 19.48
94. Carlos Boozer 19.46
95. John Wall 19.45
96. Paul Westphal 19.43
97. Zach Randolph 19.33
98. Robert Parish* 19.22
99. Bernard King* 19.18
100. Kemba Walker 19.14
101. David Lee 19.13
102. Walt Frazier* 19.12
103. Bailey Howell* 19.11
104. Paul Millsap 19.08
105. Shawn Kemp 19.08
106. Walter Davis 19.07
107. Spencer Haywood* 19.07
108. Grant Hill* 19.03
109. Mark Aguirre 19.02
110. Shareef Abdur-Rahim 19.02
111. Vince Carter 18.93
112. Gary Payton* 18.88
113. Paul George 18.87
114. Bill Russell* 18.87

[72-10]

Yeah dude, you know Bill Russell wasn't a great offensive player, right? Is Pippen even on the list you quoted?

[kennethgriffen]

Yeah dude, you know Bill Russell wasn't a great offensive player, right? Is Pippen even on the list you quoted?


the way you said that almost made me think you were on my side


:lol



and no pippens nowhere to be found. PER is pretty much trash isn't it


pippens a top 25-30 player all time minimum



eye test truly is the end all be all

[72-10]

PER is a better statistical measurement of game than any other metric I've seen, but no, there's no way to get a good all-encompassing metric for basketball. The positions on the court employ too different of roles, for one thing. Defense is difficult to factor in. But Barkley was too productive and skilled to forgive any shortcomings there by Pippen. Calling Barkley a defensive liability is a bit of a stretch. He got All-Defensive team votes, and he averaged a combined 2.3 steals and blocked shots per game for his career.

[kennethgriffen]

PER is a better statistical measurement of game than any other metric I've seen, but no, there's no way to get a good all-encompassing metric for basketball. The positions on the court employ too different of roles, for one thing. Defense is difficult to factor in. But Barkley was too productive and skilled to forgive any shortcomings there by Pippen. Calling Barkley a defensive liability is a bit of a stretch. He got All-Defensive team votes, and he averaged a combined 2.3 steals and blocked shots per game for his career.


all metrics are idiotic though. they don't factor in any form of context/situations/offensive sets/touches/teammates/options and give little thought to defensive skills/intangibles/toughness/heart/big game mentality/success etc...


stop thinking like a lebron fan. its very off putting


you're looking at stats to try and argue barkley as a good defender. he himself admitted he played zero defense

[72-10]

Pippen had trouble cracking 20. He relied a lot on slashing. He got open looks because he played with MJ, and his jump shot still didn't fall consistently. Don't give Pippen so much credit.

[kennethgriffen]

Pippen had trouble cracking 20. He relied a lot on slashing. He got open looks because he played with MJ, and his jump shot still didn't fall consistently. Don't give Pippen so much credit.


if barkley played 2nd fiddle to michael jordan he would have trouble cracking 20 in the slower paced defensive minded 90's ( especially if he was expected to lead the bulls in assists and defend the other teams best player a lot of the time )


like i said. analytics don't factor in situations. pippen was very unselfish and was the bulls main playmaker ontop of being 2nd fiddle. if all pippen did was gun as the bulls 2nd option then i think he probly averages 22-23ppg

and ontop of all this he played in the triangle where only MJ was allowed breaking it to go 1 on 1 most of the time... pippen had to go with the offense


these are things PER and analytic geeks don't understand

[Skip_Bayless]

all metrics are idiotic though. they don't factor in any form of context/situations/offensive sets/touches/teammates/options and give little thought to defensive skills/intangibles/toughness/heart/big game mentality/success etc...


stop thinking like a lebron fan. its very off putting


you're looking at stats to try and argue barkley as a good defender. he himself admitted he played zero defense

This. The best way to know who is better is to actually have watched both play and to use the eye test because the eye test reveals all to the trained eye. This is why when people try to rate players that they never saw play, it's very entertaining to read such stupidity.

[72-10]

This. The best way to know who is better is to actually have watched both play and to use the eye test because the eye test reveals all to the trained eye. This is why when people try to rate players that they never saw play, it's very entertaining to read such stupidity.

When I watched the late stages of Barkley's career, I did not watch him for his defense because he was not considered one of the best defenders, and I wanted to be one myself, not to mention I did not expect to play his position on the court.

[BigShotBob]

Pippen was broken down the last half of the 90's from 96 - 99. So no, he wasn't "more consistent" than anybody. If it wasn't for MJ he wouldn't have won anything with anyone during that time. Exemplified by him......going on to not winning anything with anyone without him afterwards.

[iamgine]

It's hard to say because he plays behind MJ while other guys are franchise player.

At his peak in '94, he was 3rd in MVP voting ahead of guys like Ewing & Malone. Guy was leading his team to 2nd round, took the Knicks to 7 games with Horace Grant as 2nd option. This is more than guys like Stockton or Payton could brag for.

Then there's the timeline problem. Barkley or Drexler could be considered better but only up to around '94. The other seasons Pippen could be considered better, mainly cause they got old. So does that mean Pippen is better for the 90s?

Personally I'd say Pippen has a solid case for top 10.

[SomeBlackDude]

if barkley played 2nd fiddle to michael jordan he would have trouble cracking 20 in the slower paced defensive minded 90's ( especially if he was expected to lead the bulls in assists and defend the other teams best player a lot of the time )


pip was the third fiddle to bark and dream the season after mike dragged him to another ring.

prime barkley and jordan matched together would be a nightmare for defenses.

sir charles would not in any way struggle to crack 20 with the goat taking all the defensive pressure off him. :lol

dude was an infinitely better offensive player than pip. not even remotely close.

[kennethgriffen]

pip was the third fiddle to bark and dream the season after mike dragged him to another ring.

prime barkley and jordan matched together would be a nightmare for defenses.

sir charles would not in any way struggle to crack 20 with the goat taking all the defensive pressure off him. :lol

dude was an infinitely better offensive player than pip. not even remotely close.


when did i say pippen was better than prime barkley


this is about the 90's as a decade


pippen had the better decade

and he called charles "fat butt" and left him high and dry to go lead portland to the WCF's so i think he got the last laugh there

[Skip_Bayless]

When I watched the late stages of Barkley's career, I did not watch him for his defense because he was not considered one of the best defenders, and I wanted to be one myself, not to mention I did not expect to play his position on the court.

Well your ahead of most then. You actually saw Barkley play some. Atm, I've got DaHeezy following me around on here like my little brittish bulldog for calling him out on this very concept.

[SomeBlackDude]

pippen had the better decade

the highlight of pip's time as a first option was a second round berth.

barkley won mvp and led his team to the finals.


and he called charles "fat butt" and left him high and dry to go lead portland to the WCF's so i think he got the last laugh there

he can call him whatever he wants. fact is pip was the third option on that team with dream and barkley.

and he didn't "lead" portland anywhere, he was a role player on that squad.

[SomeBlackDude]

saying pippen was better than barkley in the 90s is as ridiculous as claiming gasol>dirk in the 00s because of some sidekick rings.

[Round Mound]

1-Jordan
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Robinson
6-Shaq
7-Ewing
8-Drexler
9-Pippen
10-11: Stockton & Payton

12 and etc -Grant Hill, Richmond, Miller, Penny, Kemp, Coleman...

[DaHeezy]

1-Jordan
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Robinson
6-Shaq
7-Ewing
8-Drexler
9-Pippen
10-11: Stockton & Payton

12 and etc -Grant Hill, Richmond, Miller, Penny, Kemp, Coleman...
Best list yet

[ImKobe]

1-Jordan
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Robinson
6-Shaq
7-Ewing
8-Drexler
9-Pippen
10-11: Stockton & Payton

12 and etc -Grant Hill, Richmond, Miller, Penny, Kemp, Coleman...

Let's not forget Penny, who was clearly a better player than Pippen.

Would Pippen ever be over Stockon or Payton, if he didn't ride MJ's coattails for 6 titles?

[Real14]

Jordan
Hakeem
Ewing
Barkley
Malone
Drexler
Shaq
D-Rob
Payton
R.Miller

So nope he wasnt in the top 10.

[kennethgriffen]

1-Jordan
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Robinson
6-Shaq
7-Ewing
8-Drexler
9-Pippen
10-11: Stockton & Payton

12 and etc -Grant Hill, Richmond, Miller, Penny, Kemp, Coleman...


this list must about 90's peaks and not the 90's overall

theres no way in hell you can argue barkley over malone for the entire decade.

[72-10]

thread bump

[insidehoops]

Fun list of names mentioned in this topic.

[aceman]

Better than Payton & Miller - Pippen clear top ten.

[AussieSteve]

.
1) Wade is top 10 of his era and considered > Pippen

2) Kyrie ranks higher in the playoffs and Finals, while Bosh/Love were far superior to MJ's 3rd options



Better

Shaq
Hakeem
DR
Barkley
Malone
Ewing
Duncan
Hill
Penny
Drexler
Stockton


Same/arguably better

Payton
Miller
Kidd
Webber
Mourning
Kemp
Dikembe
Garnett (98-99)
Kobe (98-99)
Dominique


I'm probably missing some.. Tim Hardaway, Strickland, Glenn Robinson, Mashburn, Rice, Spreewell, and others were just as good, certainly better offensively than pippen
.

When a dude says Jamal Mashburn was better than Scottie Pippen, you just have to let him go. There's no helping him.

[tanibanana]

YES

But I have no problem if someone would say he is not. As long as that someone would agree he is not outside of top-12.

[ShawkFactory]

When a dude says Jamal Mashburn was better than Scottie Pippen, you just have to let him go. There's no helping him.

Latrell fvcking Sprewell...

[sdot_thadon]

Easily, especially if you consider his 2 way play. Hindsight is funny as hell, I can't remember a time I heard in the 90s Stockton was better than Scottie although numbers may bear out that it was debatable. And we automatically assume the opposite for Reggie Miller because he was an alpha when the numbers might say otherwise.....

[3ball]

Go by the career or peak per game stats - he's below:

everybody

Let's be real

And his defense was only worth the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat, which was below every ECF opponent they faced, and also the 91' and 92' Finals opponent.. Drexler infact matched him in steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds from the backcourt position, while commanding superior team defenses despite not having MJ helping (carrying) him like Pippen did.

Just compare Pippen and Kemp's stats in 1996 when they met in the Finals - who was the dominant beast that was carrying an otherwise hapless Sonics' squad through 3 games? It was Kemp - Pippen could never rise to that level - Kemp was infact superior to Pippen, let alone all the other guys like Derrick Coleman and others.

[ImKobe]

Easily, especially if you consider his 2 way play. Hindsight is funny as hell, I can't remember a time I heard in the 90s Stockton was better than Scottie although numbers may bear out that it was debatable. And we automatically assume the opposite for Reggie Miller because he was an alpha when the numbers might say otherwise.....

How do they say otherwise? 90-99, Reggie averaged 21 ppg on 62%TS in the RS and 23 ppg on 61%TS in the Playoffs , which is elite for a SG in that era, especially considering that he played just 35.7 mpg to average 21 ppg in the RS and 38.1 in the POs to average 23.

Reggie led the Pacers to a Conference Finals 4 times in the '90s and he had some decent statistical runs in the POs, averaging 23 ppg in '94 and 25.5 in '95 when they made the East Finals in B2B years, 20 ppg on 58%TS when they did it three times in a row from '98-'00. He did all that without a great 2nd option until Jalen became one in the '00 season, and even he never made an All-Star team. You could argue that Rik Smits was his best teammate over the course of all those years. Rik Smits, Mark Jackson & Jaylen Rose combine for just two all-star selections with Mark & Rik both having one.

Pippen from 90-99 averaged 20 ppg on 54.5%TS in the RS and 19 ppg on 52%TS in the Playoffs, it's not like he was close to Reggie as a scorer and he played way more minutes to get those averages with 38 mpg in the RS and 40.5 mpg in the Playoffs. That's a huge gap in their scoring ability, considering the weapons Pippen had around him.

[ClipperRevival]

the disrespect for zo mourning in this thread is shameful. :facepalm

and the answer to the op's question is no.

Absolutely.

(1993-2000) - 8 years - 21.1 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 3.1 BPG, 22.4 PER

Zo gets underrated in general because he played in the most stacked era for bigs.

[AirBonner]

Top 10 for sure. Anchored a top defense for years. Don’t see what Ewing or Robinson have over him

[ClipperRevival]

Top 10 for sure. Anchored a top defense for years. Don’t see what Ewing or Robinson have over him

Ca-ringe babyboi :yaohappy:

[AirBonner]

Ca-ringe babyboi :yaohappy:

50+ wins without MJ + playoff ceilings similar to Ewing and Robinson. Not sure what is to laugh about?

[SouBeachTalents]

Go by the career or peak per game stats - he's below:

everybody

Let's be real

And his defense was only worth the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat, which was below every ECF opponent they faced, and also the 91' and 92' Finals opponent.. Drexler infact matched him in steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds from the backcourt position, while commanding superior team defenses despite not having MJ helping (carrying) him like Pippen did.

Just compare Pippen and Kemp's stats in 1996 when they met in the Finals - who was the dominant beast that was carrying an otherwise hapless Sonics' squad through 3 games? It was Kemp - Pippen could never rise to that level - Kemp was infact superior to Pippen, let alone all the other guys like Derrick Coleman and others.
3ball really is the biggest hypocrite on this site. Literally uses straight up per game stats to determine who the better player is for every comparison, but when it comes to LeBron he doesn't even give them a mention. Besides his obsessive posting, him being so inconsistent with his arguments is what makes him a total clown

[Phoenix]

Who you all got in the 90's between Robinson and Shaq? I saw a ranking earlier that had Admiral ahead, which gave me a good think. Alot of people think of Shaq as a 2000's player but he actually had more elite seasons in the 90's(92-99) than he did in the 00's( 00-06). Is it fair to say that Shaq was as or more dominant than Robinson ever was by the time he got to the Lakers?

[AirBonner]

Who you all got in the 90's between Robinson and Shaq? I saw a ranking earlier that had Admiral ahead, which gave me a good think. Alot of people think of Shaq as a 2000's player but he actually had more elite seasons in the 90's(92-99) than he did in the 00's( 00-06). Is it fair to say that Shaq was as or more dominant than Robinson ever was by the time he got to the Lakers?

He was more dominant even in Orlando (beating MJ) Robinson underachieved in the playoffs the majority of his career

[ImKobe]

Who you all got in the 90's between Robinson and Shaq? I saw a ranking earlier that had Admiral ahead, which gave me a good think. Alot of people think of Shaq as a 2000's player but he actually had more elite seasons in the 90's(92-99) than he did in the 00's( 00-06). Is it fair to say that Shaq was as or more dominant than Robinson ever was by the time he got to the Lakers?

Shaq was more dominant & better if we put the 90s into perspective. During Robinson's peak RS ('94), Shaq was already putting up similar numbers despite just being 21 and in his 2nd season (30/11/5 50.7%FG vs 29/13/2 59.9%FG for Shaq). Robinson would go on to lose in the 1st round that year while averaging 20/10/4 on 41.1%FG against Utah. It's not even a debate after the '95 Playoffs with how badly MVP Robinson played against Hakeem while Shaq would go on to beat Jordan in the Playoffs while also putting up dominant numbers on Hakeem in the Finals, despite the loss.

Robinson's decline in the Playoffs puts him below Shaq. He would go from a 24.4 ppg on 52.2%FG in the RS to 21.1 ppg on 46.5% in the Playoffs (90-99) while playing 1.4 more mpg and that decline happened almost every year. Shaq never had that kind of a decline during his absolute prime.

[Phoenix]

I agree with you both above. I said 'by the time he got to the Lakers' because I wanted to give Admiral his due winning the MVP in 95, but yeah if we're being real Shaq was doing peak Robinson numbers by season 2 and showing out against Hakeem better than Robinson did in their playoff matchup. Shaq was just a more immovable force, even from the outset, and like ImKobe said his dominance didn't drop off like the Admiral's did numerous times in the playoffs. So with that said, I would flip that ranking and put Shaq ahead.

[ClipperRevival]

I remember when Admiral first came into the league in 1989-90 and took the league by storm. Anyone who lived through that era will tell you that before Shaq came onboard in 1992-93, it was DRob who was viewed as the next heir apparent to MJ. He was THAT good. And he peaked in 1995.

Regarding the comparison with Shaq, if we are comparing JUST regular season peak, i might even give the slight nod to DRob. But he just wasn't quite the same in the playoffs because he lacked that overall, dominant, post game. But he was damn special in the reg season. Amazing floor raiser. Not such a great ceiling raiser though.

[Phoenix]

I remember when Admiral first came into the league in 1989-90 and took the league by storm. Anyone who lived through that era will tell you that before Shaq came onboard in 1992-93, it was DRob who was viewed as the next heir apparent to MJ. He was THAT good. And he peaked in 1995.

Regarding the comparison with Shaq, if we are comparing JUST regular season peak, i might even give the slight nod to DRob. But he just wasn't quite the same in the playoffs because he lacked that overall, dominant, post game. But he was damn special in the reg season. Amazing floor raiser. Not such a great ceiling raiser though.

Yep. He was viewed as Bill Russel who could also score. He was winning the IBM award (for statistical contributions to their team) in the early 90's WITH peak MJ playing. He actually won the award 5 times between 89 and 95 which is a record. I'm not sure why they got rid of it.

[sdot_thadon]

How do they say otherwise? 90-99, Reggie averaged 21 ppg on 62%TS in the RS and 23 ppg on 61%TS in the Playoffs , which is elite for a SG in that era, especially considering that he played just 35.7 mpg to average 21 ppg in the RS and 38.1 in the POs to average 23.

Reggie led the Pacers to a Conference Finals 4 times in the '90s and he had some decent statistical runs in the POs, averaging 23 ppg in '94 and 25.5 in '95 when they made the East Finals in B2B years, 20 ppg on 58%TS when they did it three times in a row from '98-'00. He did all that without a great 2nd option until Jalen became one in the '00 season, and even he never made an All-Star team. You could argue that Rik Smits was his best teammate over the course of all those years. Rik Smits, Mark Jackson & Jaylen Rose combine for just two all-star selections with Mark & Rik both having one.

Pippen from 90-99 averaged 20 ppg on 54.5%TS in the RS and 19 ppg on 52%TS in the Playoffs, it's not like he was close to Reggie as a scorer and he played way more minutes to get those averages with 38 mpg in the RS and 40.5 mpg in the Playoffs. That's a huge gap in their scoring ability, considering the weapons Pippen had around him.

Indeed Reggie was a better scorer, it's more of a personal taste discussion. Scottie did everything else better than Reggie. He had more Mvp shares, as well as a generally higher Vorp. Meanwhile Reggie did a bit better in scoring efficiency and win shares. Lastly Scottie had 16 all league selections in the 90's to only 3 for Reggie, these things matter in the grand scheme.....

[ImKobe]

Indeed Reggie was a better scorer, it's more of a personal taste discussion. Scottie did everything else better than Reggie. He had more Mvp shares, as well as a generally higher Vorp. Meanwhile Reggie did a bit better in scoring efficiency and win shares. Lastly Scottie had 16 all league selections in the 90's to only 3 for Reggie, these things matter in the grand scheme.....

They're really hard to compare. Reggie had some of the ATG ORTG seasons and has a 121 career ORTG which is only 2nd to Chris Paul all-time and he's top 10 all-time in OWS and obviously he was #1 in 3s made all-time when he retired, so the best shooter of his era by a considerable margin, no one else that was in their prime in the 90s is even in the top 20. You can go either way, I just think he was way ahead of his time and had an impeccable career considering the rosters he played on. You could make an argument for him.

[LostCause]

Reggie is pretty underrated. With advanced metrics today he’d probably have received way more adulation and accolades. I recall someone showing the data of which perimeter players elevated best against the toughest defenses and Reggie was ahead of almost everyone and was a big time offensive anchor for his teams with his gravity and offball play

His PPG wasn’t super elite but his actual impact on his teams offenses was right up there with the best of all time, and he’s one of the few who consistently brought it as defenses got tougher

[Whoah10115]

Penny ahead of Pippen? Penny broke down early.

Yes, 100%.

[Phoenix]

Reggie was a 2020 player in 1995. Everything about his style, the relentless offball movement, the 3 point shooting, translates seamlessly into today's game. He really wasn't much of a gunner even, taking anywhere from 13-15 shots a game within the flow of the offense when his shooting/scoring ability easily justified more. He always increased his scoring in the playoffs which can't be said of a lot of stars who put up big regular season stats but trail off a bit in the postseason.

[Soundwave]

It's hard to say because he never really led the Bulls anywhere.

1 good regular season + 1 2nd round exit and then the following year the Bulls were a mediocre team until Jordan came back.

Drexler took the Blazers to two Finals as the no.1 option, Ewing took the Knicks to a Finals as the no.1 option, etc., don't think he can be put above those guys.

DRob/Barkley/Shaq/Jordan/Hakeem are obviously higher.