When did Larry Bird become a top 10 player of all time?

[StrongLurk]

Same for Magic. When did they surpass players like Oscar Robertson and Jerry West?

Was Bird really a top 10 player of all time after like 6 seasons?

[SouBeachTalents]

By '86/'87, they'd both have extremely strong arguments for being top 10. It's not like Bird did much of anything after '88 anyway

[StrongLurk]

By '86/'87, they'd both have extremely strong arguments for being top 10

I agree, which is another reason why past players are overrated as far as all time arguments.

It's almost impossible to be a top 10 player of all time within 7 seasons nowadays simply because there are so many players in history and they had first mover advantage.

If Larry Bird had the exact same first 7 seasons, but in this era, no way would he be considered top 10 all time already.

[kennethgriffen]

when you look back at 1980 the top 10 players of all time to most people was probably

#1 russell
#2 Wilt
#3 Kareem
#4 Oscar
#5 West
#6 dr J
#7 Pettit
#8 Havlicek
#9 Cousy
#10 Mikan


so it wouldn't have taken very long for magic/bird to crack the top 10... possibly after 84 both were in it

[FKAri]

The media and NBA brass desperately hyped Magic/Bird and couldn't wait to crown em. A lot of this was due to politics, PR, and non basketball reasons.Fortunately for them they delivered. Unfortunately, both had their careers cut short.

The league also disrespectfully swept aside every player who came before them. Especially the ABA guys. They just had trouble sweeping aside Wilt's overwhelming dominance and Russell's 11 rings. It wasn't until MJ became the new face of the league that the NBA started respecting it's history again.

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree, which is another reason why past players are overrated as far as all time arguments.

It's almost impossible to be a top 10 player of all time within 7 seasons nowadays simply because there are so many players in history and they had first mover advantage.

If Larry Bird had the exact same first 7 seasons, but in this era, no way would he be considered top 10 all time already.
I'd love to see where people would rank Jordan after winning his first title in his 7th season if that happened today

[FKAri]

I'd love to see where people would rank Jordan after winning his first title in his 7th season if that happened today
He was considered a talented chucker until he won. Then he kept winning and everyone loved him. In reality he was already the best to play before he won his first ring. His whole 90s career just gives him a cushion imo. He was just that good. And the only things the 2nd 3peat showed us that we didn't already know was that: He could adapt as he aged and that he could learn to trust teammates.

[Odinn]

By the time, nearly half of current top 10-15 weren't playing. So it wasn't that hard.
Wilt, Russell, West, Baylor, Big O, Erving, Moses, Pettit, Reed, Hondo, Gervin, Cousy, Archibald, Frazier were the names.
Aside from Bird and Magic; Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, LeBron, Chuck, Karl, Dirk, Curry, Durant, Garnett, Robinson, Zeke. None of these were around for such claim. It wasn't that hard.

[iamgine]

I agree, which is another reason why past players are overrated as far as all time arguments.

It's almost impossible to be a top 10 player of all time within 7 seasons nowadays simply because there are so many players in history and they had first mover advantage.

If Larry Bird had the exact same first 7 seasons, but in this era, no way would he be considered top 10 all time already.
I don't know about that. He had 3 straight MVPs, along with 3 rings in that 7 seasons. All while being the clear best player in his team, making teammates better and being ultra clutch. If there's a player like that today, I'm sure he'd be in the top 10 all time.

[MrFonzworth]

2011

[Marchesk]

#1 russell
#2 Wilt
#3 Kareem
#4 Oscar
#5 West
#6 dr J
#7 Pettit
#8 Havlicek
#9 Cousy
#10 Mikan


Come on, dude. Elgin Baylor is ahead of Havlicek and Cousy, at least.

[mr4speed]

I agree, which is another reason why past players are overrated as far as all time arguments.

It's almost impossible to be a top 10 player of all time within 7 seasons nowadays simply because there are so many players in history and they had first mover advantage.

If Larry Bird had the exact same first 7 seasons, but in this era, no way would he be considered top 10 all time already.

I disagree and here is why. Bird's rookie season 79-80 he was ROY by a huge margin and actually was 4th in season MVP vote. In 81 and 82 and 83 he was 2nd in MVP voting each year. In 84 and 85 and 86 he was the MVP. In 87 he was 3rd and in 88 he was 2nd. That is an impressive run for 9 seasons and during those 9 seasons his Celtic team - in games Bird Played - won 534 games and lost 177 of 711 games for a win % of .751 = the highest win % of any NBA player ever and the Celtics were in the stronger eastern conference. Given the Celtic turn around from 29 wins to 61 wins in Bird's rookie year, and what followed, he deserved to crack the top 10 all time. Who else has done that and put back to back 50-40-90 seasons together?

[Manny98]

When he swept Jordan

[Marchesk]

When he swept Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oACRt-Qp-s

"You and me for my Big Mac?!?"

[Mask the Embiid]

idk bruh

i think some random guy just said it in a bar one night and no one checked him.Then it just snowballed from there.Now Larry Bird is top 10 and you cant tell them nothing


it is what it is. i just stopped arguing it....let them have a bone

[StrongLurk]

My whole point is that older players have the first mover advantage so it's harder to kick them out of the top 10 all time...when it shouldn't be harder.

[superduper]

My whole point is that older players have the first mover advantage so it's harder to kick them out of the top 10 all time...when it shouldn't be harder.

Not at all. It definitely plays a factor because they are pioneers of the game who invented/innovated everything being done in the league right now. But players like Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/Bran are up there with the older guys because they are transcendent, have the accolades, have the peak play. Anyone from the present moving forward who accumulates similar accolades/rings to compliment their all time great level of play will definitely be ranked by some into the top 10-15.

[ClipperRevival]

How is he NOT? Individual accolades (3 MVP, 2 FMVP), team accolades (3 rings), GOAT tier peak, arguably the most skilled player ever, clutch as hell and killer instinct. He checks off boxes that only a few can approach.

[StrongLurk]

Not at all. It definitely plays a factor because they are pioneers of the game who invented/innovated everything being done in the league right now. But players like Duncan/Shaq/Kobe/Bran are up there with the older guys because they are transcendent, have the accolades, have the peak play. Anyone from the present moving forward who accumulates similar accolades/rings to compliment their all time great level of play will definitely be ranked by some into the top 10-15.

It is common sense that the next generation will ALWAYS have to do more to get into the top 10...because the top 10 is so established now.

You just said it yourself, they will be ranked in the top 10-15.

When in reality, guys like Bird and Magic should be on much shakier grounds for top ten all time consideration (don't even get me started on Bill Russell and Wilt).

It will be impossible to even have a standardized top 10 in 20-30 more years.

[72-10]

I bet it's with the conclusion of the 1984 playoffs.

Truth be told, some people started making arguments for Bird as the GOAT by like 1983. Most of these people lived in the Boston area, and probably what they really meant was that he was playing basketball at the highest level they'd ever seen. I personally don't see how anyone could make a convincing GOAT argument, then or now, but he was most def top 10 by the mid-1980s. His biggest rival, Magic Johnson, might have been as well.

When we look back on the mid-1980s, we'd have to consider just who the top 10 players of all-time were. The NBA's 35th Anniversary All-Time Team would probably help a lot here since it was published in 1980-81 thereabouts.

In the mid-1980s, many people thought the GOAT was either Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, with an extremely small minority reporting Oscar Robertson as their choice. The New York Times published an article in 1985 discussing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as their pick for the GOAT title. So that covers four who are all clearly greater than Bird by the mid-1980s.

Then we have Jerry West, who was almost as impressive as Robertson, but had lost many times in the Finals to the Celtics. Then there's Julius Erving, who was basically the ABA's unsung ambassador and had just revolutionized the game by literally taking it to a higher level with his acrobatic stunts on the court.

There is not much doubt in my mind that these 6 players were greater than Bird in the mid-1980s.

Who would probably round out a top 10 then were Larry Bird, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Magic Johnson, or maybe George Mikan (I've named 11). Magic has the weakest case of all of these players after the 1983-84 season, which is when I'd say Bird cracked the top ten.

[BigShotBob]

Bird is the most skilled basketball player to have ever played the game.

Just watch a full game of his. Not a highlight. A full game. Several full games. Then come back to me.

Until then don't speak on what you don't know.