Why couldn't Lebron win 70 games and have several years as the dominant favorite?

[3ball]

Curry/Klay won 70 and had a dominant favorite for several years

why not Lebron/Wade or Lebron/Kyrie???
.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why don't you ask that of Kareem/Magic, Shaq/Kobe, Bird/McHale etc.

[bigkingsfan]

He’d rather beat them.

[FKAri]

Why pee in a urinal when you can pee in someone else's cereal? This it the level LeGalactus is operating on. You can't achieve it. You can only hope to comprehend it. I have dedicated my life to just such a feat.

[Dray n Klay]

Kyrie and Love weren

[3ball]

Why don't you ask that of Kareem/Magic, Shaq/Kobe, Bird/McHale etc.
Because they were the dominant favorite of their era for several years

Lebron never was and ceded 70 wins to another team

[keep-itreal]

[QUOTE=bigkingsfan]He

[3ball]

He’d rather beat them.
Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for mostly losing... i.e. beating warriors 1 in 4 times, or the spurs 1 in 3, including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing
.

[bullettooth]

Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for beating an opponent 1 in 4 times (warriors), or 1 in 3 (spurs), including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing

The bar is set VERY low for LeBron. 3/9 is now what it takes to be considered a Top 10 all time player.

:lol

[bigkingsfan]

Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for mostly losing... i.e. beating warriors 1 in 4 times, or the spurs 1 in 3, including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing
.
Legoat beat those teams in two tries. It was MJ that took four tries. :oldlol:

[3ball]

The bar is set VERY low for LeBron. 3/9 is now what it takes to be considered a Top 10 all time player.

:lol
Exactly

bigkingsfan says lebron would prefer beating them, but his 1-4 and 1-3 records vs warriors/spurs demonstrates he precisely NOT beating them..

and infact is losing by record amount to each and getting swept

[3ball]

Legoat beat those teams in two tries. It was MJ that took four tries. :oldlol:
Lebron' 1-4 and 1-3 records vs warriors/spurs demonstrates he precisely NOT beating these teams

and infact is losing by record amount to each and getting swept

[bigkingsfan]

Lebron' 1-4 and 1-3 records vs warriors/spurs demonstrates he precisely NOT beating these teams

and infact is losing by record amount to each and getting swept
MJ couldn't win a single game against the Celtics in six tries. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

The bar is set VERY low for LeBron. 3/9 is now what it takes to be considered a Top 10 all time player.

:lol
So he needed to make less Finals to be considered top 10? What a fcking idiot :oldlol:

[3ball]

So he needed to make less Finals to be considered top 10? What a fcking idiot :oldlol:
Why would he need to make less Finals?

just win the damn championship!!!

Where did "less Finals" come from??.. Is this some Jedi mind trick where you say the opposite of reality and people go for it?.. :oldlol: .. seems like it

Again, just win the championship..... which would be a lot easier if he achieved consistently dominant favorites like curry and MJ did. Or Duncan, Kobe and others

[SouBeachTalents]

Why would he need to make less Finals?

just win the damn championship!!!

Where did "less Finals" come from??.. Is this some Jedi mind trick where you say the opposite of reality and people go for it?.. :oldlol: .. seems like it

Again, just win the championship..... which would be a lot easier if he achieved consistently dominant favorites like curry and MJ did. Or Duncan, Kobe and others
That idiot's argument is that since he's 3/9, instead of 3/3 or 3/5, that should keep him out of the top 10. So, if rangz are the end all, no way should Hakeem or Wilt be ranked ahead of LeBron, or even Bird for that matter

[bullettooth]

That idiot's argument is that since he's 3/9, instead of 3/3 or 3/5, that should keep him out of the top 10. So, if rangz are the end all, no way should Hakeem or Wilt be ranked ahead of LeBron, or even Bird for that matter

I got Bird ahead of LeBron.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He should have with Wade and Bosh back in 2011.

LeBron claiming they would 5-peat told you great they could've been :oldlol:


That idiot's argument is that since he's 3/9, instead of 3/3 or 3/5, that should keep him out of the top 10. So, if rangz are the end all, no way should Hakeem or Wilt be ranked ahead of LeBron, or even Bird for that matter

The poster literally never said that.

LeBron fans just default into "so not making the finals is better????!!!" when in reality, 3/9 just means dude lost more than he won. Losing being the operative word here.

[bullettooth]

So he needed to make less Finals to be considered top 10? What a fcking idiot :oldlol:

Hold on, so FAILURE is now a sign of being GOAT? Why don't you have Jerry West as the GOAT?

[Hey Yo]

I got Bird ahead of LeBron.
You also had Bulls drafting Pippen.

[SouBeachTalents]

He should have with Wade and Bosh back in 2011.

LeBron claiming they would 5-peat told you great they could've been :oldlol:



The poster literally never said that.

LeBron fans just default into "so not making the finals is better????!!!" when in reality, 3/9 just means dude lost more than he won. Losing being the operative word here.
It's really 3/15, but 3/9 absolutely does mean they're criticizing making the Finals and losing to teams like the Warriors instead of losing to garbage like the Pacers, Hawks or Raptors

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's really 3/15, but 3/9 absolutely does mean they're criticizing making the Finals and losing to teams like the Warriors instead of losing to garbage like the Pacers, Hawks or Raptors

Not if you think his teams should've won in the finals.

I don't care enough to break that down though. I'm sure 3ball or somebody else will engage you there.

[3ball]

That idiot's argument is that since he's 3/9, instead of 3/3 or 3/5, that should keep him out of the top 10. So, if rangz are the end all, no way should Hakeem or Wilt be ranked ahead of LeBron, or even Bird for that matter


If he's viewed as underachieving, then his Finals losses hurt him

And we're learning that an underachieving Finals record isn't just the overt chokes like 2011..

it's more subtle too.. The yearly circumstance of not achieving dominant favorites like curry/mj/duncan hurt a player's Finals chances and record more than the overt chokes - obviously, chokes happen a lot less often than yearly underdog status
.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not if you think his teams should've won in the finals.

I don't care enough to break that down though. I'm sure 3ball or somebody else will engage you there.
Outside of 2011 which is obvious, any Finals he lost you think he should've won?

[superduper]

Outside of 2011 which is obvious, any Finals he lost you think he should've won?

2014, 2015, 2017, 2018.

[3ball]

Outside of 2011 which is obvious, any Finals he lost you think he should've won?
Ur ignoring the point

You think he shouldn't have won because his team was perceived as an underdog

But that's the whole point - why is lebron/wade and lebron/kyrie underdogs to anyone?

Again, the yearly circumstance of not achieving dominant favorites like curry/mj/duncan hurt a player's Finals chances and record more than the overt chokes like 2011 - obviously, chokes happen a lot less often than yearly underdog status
.

[And1AllDay]

[QUOTE=bigkingsfan]He

[And1AllDay]

2014, 2015, 2017, 2018.

Look up Miami's stats for 2014 Finals
Look up Miamis competition for 2014 Finals

The rest we already know your dumb to say :oldlol: :oldlol:

Next

[Bigsmoke]

2018.
U are on drugs sir

[egokiller]

Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for mostly losing... i.e. beating warriors 1 in 4 times, or the spurs 1 in 3, including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing
.

What other choice do lefail stans have other that praising him for losing/showing up? The poor bastard is basically 1/9 without the big shots from Kyrie and Wade. When you've lost that much, the only thing you can do as someone who never watched MJ live is pretend that "showing up is winning". At that point, it's all you have. It's called compensating. It's like the guy that has to sport 10s while everyone else on his block is rolling on 20s. He couldn't afford the 20s (witnessing GOAT MJ), but he damn sure kept his 10s (LeBron) clean. :lol

https://youtu.be/ZDCXUJk3rxw?t=16

Why couldn't he win 70 games and have several years as the dominant favorite? Because his style of basketball isn't conducive to team winning basketball. It's not sustainable enough for it to happen. :applause:

[Mr Exlax]

I would say because the talent didn't mesh together as well as the other teams mentioned. Overlapping skillsets and just being top heavy talent wise. Didn't have the continuity or coaching prowess. I can go on as to why.

[3ball]

I would say because the talent didn't mesh together as well as the other teams mentioned. Overlapping skillsets and just being top heavy talent wise. Didn't have the continuity or coaching prowess. I can go on as to why.


Why didn't the talent mesh??? (you can ignore the rest of my post below)

And that's nonsense regarding the coaching - lebron rejected coaching from every coach he's ever had because he must play his way (make all the plays)

lebron played for an elite organization (Riley), a coach of the year and elite defensive coach (brown), and a renowned euro coach who tried to install a system..

but he simply rejected any efforts they made to install ball-movement systems.. like, what should a coach run with Lebron? Coaches tried things, but he rejected them (the obvious answer is to have him play off-ball more to increase ball-movement - which the spurs/warriors use to beat him - but he lacks the skillset to mix more off-ball play and ball movement into his game)

[Dray n Klay]

Why didn't the talent mesh??? (you can ignore the rest of my post below)

And that's nonsense regarding the coaching - lebron rejected coaching from every coach he's ever had because he must play his way (make all the plays)

lebron played for an elite organization (Riley), a coach of the year and elite defensive coach (brown), and a renowned euro coach who tried to install a system..

but he simply rejected any efforts they made to install ball-movement systems.. like, what should a coach run with Lebron? Coaches tried things, but he rejected them (the obvious answer is to have him play off-ball more to increase ball-movement - which the spurs/warriors use to beat him - but he lacks the skillset to mix more off-ball play and ball movement into his game)


Did LeBron have an all star in 2016?

[Smoke117]

1-9 :roll: :roll: :roll:

[egokiller]

Did LeBron have an all star in 2016?

He had one in 2003 and yet didn't make the playoffs. :lol


1-9 :roll: :roll: :roll:

lebron finals record without Kyrie and Allen game winners. :lol

[3ball]

1-9 :roll: :roll: :roll:
That's lebron's record against the warriors his last 10 Finals games.. :roll:

With a hige high seed and star teammates!!.. :roll: :roll:

[Mr Exlax]

I'm not gonna sit here and type it out. I'm not pushing an agenda though. I would imagine you're smart enough to look at the players and understand exactly.

[Smoke117]

I love how these idiots fire back with Bran shit like I give a crap. :roll: I don't obsess over basketball players like you losers do. :lol

[And1AllDay]

That's lebron's record against the warriors his last 10 Finals games..

With a hige high seed and star teammates!!.. :roll:

Competition
https://i.postimg.cc/YqTvqcxK/net-efficiency.png

Stats
https://i.postimg.cc/2jK62pMb/MJ-vs-LJ-post.jpg

Teammates
https://i.postimg.cc/8C4kvxLC/pip-an-mj-post.jpg

Clutch
https://i.postimg.cc/Jnd16J6V/Bron-gw-post.jpg

Against the odds
https://i.postimg.cc/N0sBQbZv/Le-Bron-3-1-King.jpg


Bye

[3ball]

I'm not gonna sit here and type it out. I'm not pushing an agenda though. I would imagine you're smart enough to look at the players and understand exactly.
You don't have to.. it's the same reason why the Heat's offense peaked at #62 all-time, despite much more offensive help than MJ's bulls (#2 all-time)

Ultimately, lebron lacks an off-ball skillset, so he doesn't fit with other players that need to dominate the ball

His dribble-intensive approach prevented the kind of ball movement and high assist teams that beat him in the Finals - the only common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists

[ImKobe]

2nd 3-Peat Bulls won more games from 96-98 than the 16-18 Warriors and went 3 - 0 in the Finals, despite the fact that MJ was 33-35 and that Pippen missed half a season in '98. Jordan didn't miss a single game from 96-98.

[And1AllDay]

2nd 3-Peat Bulls won more games from 96-98 than the 16-18 Warriors and went 3 - 0 in the Finals, despite the fact that MJ was 33-35 and that Pippen missed half a season in '98. Jordan didn't miss a single game from 96-98.

Ok thats pretty impressive ill give you that

[tamaraw08]

Competition
https://i.postimg.cc/YqTvqcxK/net-efficiency.png

Stats
https://i.postimg.cc/2jK62pMb/MJ-vs-LJ-post.jpg

Teammates
https://i.postimg.cc/8C4kvxLC/pip-an-mj-post.jpg

Clutch
https://i.postimg.cc/Jnd16J6V/Bron-gw-post.jpg

Against the odds
https://i.postimg.cc/N0sBQbZv/Le-Bron-3-1-King.jpg


Bye
holy crap, are these made up stats? 3ball, can you double check this please:eek:

[Ainosterhaspie]

Lebron never was and ceded 70 wins to another team
Wrong! Even if LeBron's team swept the Warriors, the Warriors still win 71. LeBron didn't "cede" 70 wins to them.

[3ball]

Competition
https://i.postimg.cc/YqTvqcxK/net-efficiency.png


the dominant team will always face lower net efficiency teams, records, and seeds, etc - the point is to BE on the list of high net efficiency teams, not an opponent!..





Stats
https://i.postimg.cc/2jK62pMb/MJ-vs-LJ-post.jpg


If we're talking losing stats, then nothing tops MJ's 44/6/6 versus the 86' Celtics or his combined 40/7/6 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1986-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game) averages versus the Celtics in the 86 and 87 playoffs (including 2.2 steals and 1.8 blocks)

also, lebron's stats are much worse in the years he won (25-28 ppg in 12' and 13'), because it's harder to get stats while playing winning basketball

Finally, MJ did more to win rings:


PER GAME

Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:. 33.7 ppg.. 6.4 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 49.7 fg.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER
Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:. 27.2 ppg.. 9.2 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 51.0 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER


PER 100 POSSESSIONS

Jordan 91, 92, 93 Playoffs:. 44.5 pts.. Ii8.4 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 3.8 tov.. 49.7 fg.. 57.2 ts.. 120 ortg.. 29.5 PER
Lebron 12, 13, 16 Playoffs:. 36.1 pts.. 10.2 reb.. 8.7 ast.. 4.4 tov.. 51.0 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 117 ortg.. 29.2 PER






Teammates
https://i.postimg.cc/8C4kvxLC/pip-an-mj-post.jpg


https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2015/02/17/dbfeb3a3-73a4-4d79-922f-1fac704558e0/thumbnail/770x433/d5477e0b360242bc80cbde0bec21fc40/lebron.jpg


In the entire 98' playoffs, pippen only scored 15.8% (https://stats.nba.com/player/937/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4) of the bulls' 4th quarter points while on the floor (less than 1/6th), which is less than Ray Allen's 16.4% (https://stats.nba.com/player/951/usage/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4) in 2014 playoffs.. or Bosh's 21.5% (https://stats.nba.com/player/2547/usage/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4), let alone Wade's 26.0% (https://stats.nba.com/player/2548/usage/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)

Btw, MJ scored 48.8% (https://stats.nba.com/player/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4) (1/2)






Clutch
https://i.postimg.cc/Jnd16J6V/Bron-gw-post.jpg


Irrelevant because MJ had more through 179 games, so his frequency/degree of clutch was greater





Against the odds
https://i.postimg.cc/N0sBQbZv/Le-Bron-3-1-King.jpg


^^^^ So lebron wasn't dominant and MJ was
.

[Mr Exlax]

You don't have to.. it's the same reason why the Heat's offense peaked at #62 all-time, despite much more offensive help than MJ's bulls (#2 all-time)

Ultimately, lebron lacks an off-ball skillset, so he doesn't fit with other players that need to dominate the ball

His dribble-intensive approach prevented the kind of ball movement and high assist teams that beat him in the Finals - the only common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists

I would say that has more to do with that offensive help being redundant. He and Wade always cancelled each other out imo. Chris Bosh was the one that could havw played off either one. Didn't have a system or anything. I never pegged them gwtting past Indy because the talent didn't mesh. This really doesn't have anything to do with MJ. Their games are completely different. I don't see MJ being able to do what LBJ does for those teams on the defensive end for sure. Not enough size. The rest of the team might have been dope on paper but not cohesive at all imo.

[3ball]

I would say that has more to do with that offensive help being redundant. He and Wade always cancelled each other out imo. Chris Bosh was the one that could havw played off either one. Didn't have a system or anything. I never pegged them gwtting past Indy because the talent didn't mesh. This really doesn't have anything to do with MJ. Their games are completely different. I don't see MJ being able to do what LBJ does for those teams on the defensive end for sure. Not enough size. The rest of the team might have been dope on paper but not cohesive at all imo.
Right... and why was that? Because lebron couldn't mix in enough off-ball into his game and let Wade/Bosh play to their full strength..

It's a massive hole in his game compared to MJ, curry, and bird, who had the necessary off-ball skill to fit well with other ball-handlers - this resulted in teammates playing near capacity and great teamwork/ball movement that lebron's teams aren't capable of.. instead, lebron gets BEAT by teams possessing the ball movement that he prevents his teams from having

And MJ has everything to do with it.. considering MJ had the #2 and #6 offenses with pippen/grant and pippen/rodman, it he'd easily have the #1 offense ever by a wide margin and a dominant dynasty with Bosh/wade

[Ainosterhaspie]

Right... and why was that? Because lebron couldn't mix in enough off-ball into his game and let Wade/Bosh play to their full strength..

It's a massive hole in his game compared to MJ, curry, and bird, who had the necessary off-ball skill to fit well with other ball-handlers - this resulted in teammates playing near capacity and great teamwork/ball movement that lebron's teams aren't capable of.. instead, lebron gets BEAT by teams possessing the ball movement that he prevents his teams from having

And MJ has everything to do with it.. considering MJ had the #2 and #6 offenses with pippen/grant and pippen/rodman, it he'd easily have the #1 offense ever by a wide margin and a dominant dynasty with Bosh/wade

Nah, LeBron played well off ball next to Wade. He loved cutting off ball and finishing feeds from Wade. You don't have a clue about LeBron's off ball game because you don't watch him. If you did you would notice an unsurprising trend. His off ball activity and impact go up next to guys who pass well and go down when playing next to guys who don't. This is not surprising since you can't finish if people can't or won't get the ball to you.

[tpols]

Why don't you ask that of Kareem/Magic, Shaq/Kobe, Bird/McHale etc.


They all had dynasties and GOAT squads together.

[Da_Realist]

https://i.postimg.cc/2jK62pMb/MJ-vs-LJ-post.jpg


LeBron statpadding while winning 3 games out of 15 is not impressive. You are some losers. LeBron picks his teams like he is in a rec league then has the front office change everything around if the team isn't good enough and he still loses most of the time.

[Da_Realist]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p5CiUe5JJu8

[3ball]

Nah, LeBron played well off ball next to Wade. He loved cutting off ball and finishing feeds from Wade. You don't have a clue about LeBron's off ball game because you don't watch him. If you did you would notice an unsurprising trend. His off ball activity and impact go up next to guys who pass well and go down when playing next to guys who don't. This is not surprising since you can't finish if people can't or won't get the ball to you.
Lebron doesn't have an off-ball game and has never played truly "off-ball" like MJ, Bird, Miller and guys like that did

This is common knowledge, and it's commonly said all the time that lebron isn't an off-ball player and needs spot-up shooters / doesn't fit with guys that need the ball..

Ur just delusional saying lebron is good off-ball, or was ever an "off-ball player".. he was the primary ball-dominator for the Heat and held the ball the longest, even longer than PG Chalmers.. that's why his heat peaked at a pathetic #62 all-time offensively, despite all that offensive talent in the cast..

Otoh, MJ achieved the #5 offense with rodman (4 on 5) because his off-ball skillset allowed a system and goat teamwork.. but lebron rejects coaching and employs a playground "harden" style, so his teamwork is shit and his teams underachieve (always underdogs despite super teams)
.

[Ainosterhaspie]

And if you had ever watched them play, you might actually know what you're talking about.

[3ball]

And if you had ever watched them play, you might actually know what you're talking about.
U need to enroll at the nut house if you think lebron was an off-ball player in Miami

A couple plays once in a while doesn't make someone an off-ball player

He was still the team's point guard, so how could he be an off-ball player? It's ludicrous

It's common knowledge that off-ball isn't Lebron's game and that he needs spot-up shooters, but keep hanging on to the dream that he's a good off-ball player.. the very fact that you are defending lebron's off-ball worth shows that it's a legit issue..

And Jerry West says MJ was better for ball movement than Lebron.. but I guess he doesn't watch and doesn't know anything either right?.. :roll:

[ImKobe]

LeBron statpadding while winning 3 games out of 15 is not impressive. You are some losers. LeBron picks his teams like he is in a rec league then has the front office change everything around if the team isn't good enough and he still loses most of the time.

Lebron was going hard in the 4th quarter, when his teams were down 15-20 points :lol

imagine bragging about stats in a sweep loss, where the opposing player outplays you for 3 straight games :facepalm

2018 Finals, Games 2 - 4

KD: 30/11/8 2 blk 2.7 TO 59/53/100 shooting

LBJ: 28/9/11 1 blk 5.0 TO 49/27/82 shooting

Kevin Durant putting up better scoring, rebounding, shot-blocking and AST-TO numbers, BUT BUT LEBRON HAD THE GREATEST FINALS EVER WHILE GETTING SWEPT, LOOK AT HIS AVERAGES.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron was going hard in the 4th quarter, when his teams were down 15-20 points :lol

imagine bragging about stats in a sweep loss, where the opposing player outplays you for 3 straight games :facepalm

2018 Finals, Games 2 - 4

KD: 30/11/8 2 blk 2.7 TO 59/53/100 shooting

LBJ: 28/9/11 1 blk 5.0 TO 49/27/82 shooting

Kevin Durant putting up better scoring, rebounding, shot-blocking and AST-TO numbers, BUT BUT LEBRON HAD THE GREATEST FINALS EVER WHILE GETTING SWEPT, LOOK AT HIS AVERAGES.
Wow, you remove (by far) LeBron's best game and remove Durant's worst game, and outside of efficiency they're still nearly even :lol

[ImKobe]

Wow, you remove (by far) LeBron's best game and remove Durant's worst game, and outside of efficiency they're still nearly even :lol

Three. Straight. Games. Three Ls.

How does Lebron allow KD to hit a dagger in his house 2 years in a row? Lebron's 1/9 against KD in the Finals in the last two years :facepalm

KD thoroughly outplayed Lebron in 2017, and outplayed Lebron for 3 straight games in the 2018 Finals.

You can't just make the "but but better team" argument, when Lebron is getting outplayed by his counterpart H2H.

[bigkingsfan]

Wow, you remove (by far) LeBron's best game and remove Durant's worst game, and outside of efficiency they're still nearly even :lol
:roll:

[Uncle Drew]

[QUOTE=bigkingsfan]He

[Ainosterhaspie]

U need to enroll at the nut house if you think lebron was an off-ball player in Miami

A couple plays once in a while doesn't make someone an off-ball player

He was still the team's point guard, so how could he be an off-ball player? It's ludicrous

It's common knowledge that off-ball isn't Lebron's game and that he needs spot-up shooters, but keep hanging on to the dream that he's a good off-ball player.. the very fact that you are defending lebron's off-ball worth shows that it's a legit issue..

And Jerry West says MJ was better for ball movement than Lebron.. but I guess he doesn't watch and doesn't know anything either right?.. :roll:
James never had the ball more on a per minute basis than his point guard in the years that data was available, so there were many, many plays when he was off ball. He's never brought it up the floor every time or even most of the time. Their default play style was to have others try to get things going early. The Heat had a system and it wasn't to just have James initiate the offense every play as you seem to think.

You are trying trying to talk about something you have no clue about because you didn't watch the games. You are just parroting false narratives you heard from others and didn't bother to check for accuracy.

This is after Miami, but shows LeBron's off ball play. He was more active off ball in Miami.

https://youtu.be/jA7nFXH6R_4

[Hey Yo]

LeBron statpadding while winning 3 games out of 15 is not impressive. You are some losers. LeBron picks his teams like he is in a rec league then has the front office change everything around if the team isn't good enough and he still loses most of the time.
:biggums:

LOL @ this Jordan stan bitching about other players allegedly getting special treatment from the front office. The majority of MJ's career was nothing but preferential treatment from Daddy Stern.

[Koresh]

Stop arguing with this asshole 3ball. He didn't watch Jordan play. He didn't watch the Heatles era, which is obvious because he keeps saying LeBron doesn't or can't play off-ball, but he has. There's no point beating a dead horse. He has documents of pre-written rebuttals and you guys keeping feed him. Just stop. He doesn't want or watch the modern NBA. Since the media began putting LeBron in the GOAT conversation, 3ball and Bruce Blitz went ape shit trying to discredit LeBron the first chance they get for a few years. I don't get why these threads are opened. They are the same tired arguments just with different titles and agendas.

I am really tired of the "LeBron's teams didn't have ball movement or he should have scored 5 more points and his team would have won." All this suboptimal basketball crap. Basketball is a team sport. Championships are team accomplishments. No one is going to care about finals losses. All will be said how many rings you won because you are judged by your overall career resume. "Sorry, LeBron, you lost X times in the finals, so we can't put you in the HOF." Shut the **** up, 3ball.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Stop arguing with this asshole 3ball. He didn't watch Jordan play. He didn't watch the Heatles era, which is obvious because he keeps saying LeBron doesn't or can't play off-ball, but he has. There's no point beating a dead horse.
It's not about convincing him, it's about convincing others whose minds aren't made up yet. Just let these false assertions and narratives go unrebutted and people might get drawn into the idiocy.

[3ball]

James never had the ball more on a per minute basis than his point guard in the years that data was available, so there were many, many plays when he was off ball. He's never brought it up the floor every time or even most of the time. Their default play style was to have others try to get things going early. The Heat had a system and it wasn't to just have James initiate the offense every play as you seem to think.

You are trying trying to talk about something you have no clue about because you didn't watch the games. You are just parroting false narratives you heard from others and didn't bother to check for accuracy.

This is after Miami, but shows LeBron's off ball play. He was more active off ball in Miami.

https://youtu.be/jA7nFXH6R_4
There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... these are all statistical facts, i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I don't care when you started trolling box scores to make stuff up that doesn't reflect what is happening on the floor. You can't grasp the basic concept that more goes into team assist numbers than one player. You refuse to look at other potential causes for that low number like whether the other guys are finishing open looks or creating open looks for others. The end result is a false narrative that doesn't reflect how things actually played out on the floor.

When LeBron passes to Joel "worst hands I've ever seen" Anthony who is wide open at the basket and he can't finish team assists go down.

When LeBron cuts and is wide open under the basket and Jordan Clarkson decides he'd rather iso his man and brick multiple attempts instead of feeding James, team assists go down.

When Irving gets tunnel vision isoing his man, team assists go down.

When Chris Bosh looks hopeless against old man Duncan, team assists go down.

When No Clue Lue is standing around dumbstruck and has no idea for a system other than "play faster" team assists go down.

When Kyle Korver who is supposed to be a three point spot up specialist cant hit a wide open three to save the game, team assists go down.

When JR Smith dribbles out the clock thinking they have the lead, team assists go down.

When Tristan Thompson gets the ball and can't make up his mind what to do with it, team assists go down.

The Cavs with the literal worst roster in the league made the finals, but James is why they don't have a bunch of assists.

The Lakers had no discernable effective system before James and now that James is out they are the worst offense in the league, but James is the problem.

James' team had more assists than Wade's team before and after they played together, but James drove down team assists.

James' team had more assists than Irving's before and after they played together, but James is the problem.

Get the picture yet? James is way better than many players who've been key pieces in great systems. If a great system hasn't come into place it's probably not because the best player on the team can't function off ball. He has the skillset to play a role similar to Pippen or Draymond or Parker, only a much better version of those guys. There is nothing about his skillset the prevents a system from functioning.

But please blabber on some more about box scores instead of what's actually going on out there on the floor during the games you haven't even watched. I'm sure you can far more accurately talk about games you don't watch than people who watched them.

[knicksman]

Lebron is like NBA. Great ratings but sacrifices integrity to get those ratings. Is it worth it? Well theres a reason why nba is now just 3rd most popular league. Couldnt even beat a boring sport in baseball.

Lebron is like that. Lebron has great stats but sacrifices team ball to get his. Hes a prime example of "you may have won the battle but lost the war." Thats why id rather have kobe over him. Coz kobe might have the lesser stats but thats expected coz hes playing within a system. Hes playing in a winning system.

[tamaraw08]

There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... these are all statistical facts, i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.

What a load of crap, Cherry picking again for like few hundred times over and over rant like a broken record.
Lebron with Kyrie were top 3 on offense the 3 years they were together, when Kyrie left, Cavs were still 5TH BEST, if his team was in the bottom half then yes you have a point.
2016 finals, Cavs had a ORTG OF 109 beating a mighty GSW, so freaking what?
2017 finals, Cavs even INCREASED their ORGT TO 114.6 with 21.6 assists SO YOU REALLY WANT TO CRY ABOUT LOW TEAM ASSISTS?:facepalm
COMPARE THAT TO 1998 FINALS BULLS had a LOWER ORTG OF 105.5 WITH JUST 18 ASSISTS-LOWER THAN LEBRON'S TEAM.
Should Lebron fans stoop to your level and nitpick on why MJ didn't make enough 3's or NONE OF HIS TEAMMATES HAD CAREER BEST IN POINTS AND ATTEMPTS when they played with him?:confusedshrug:

If you have valid points about why MJ is better Lebron, then bring it maybe I will agree with you but not this pathetic one ok?

[RealSkipBayless]

All those scrimmage games to the finals and getting to face an opponent who just got out of a bloodbath WCF each year, still 3/9. :lol :lol

[tamaraw08]

There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... these are all statistical facts, i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.
What a load of crap, Cherry picking again for like few hundred times over and over rant like a broken record.
Lebron with Kyrie were top 3 on offense the 3 years they were together, when Kyrie left, Cavs were still 5TH BEST, if his team was in the bottom half then yes you have a point.
2016 finals, Cavs had a ORTG OF 109 beating a mighty GSW, so freaking what?
2017 finals, Cavs even INCREASED their ORGT TO 114.6 with 21.6 assists SO YOU REALLY WANT TO CRY ABOUT LOW TEAM ASSISTS?
COMPARE THAT TO 1998 FINALS BULLS had a LOWER ORTG OF 105.5 WITH JUST 18 ASSISTS-LOWER THAN LEBRON'S TEAM.
Should Lebron fans stoop to your level and nitpick on why MJ didn't make enough 3's or NONE OF HIS TEAMMATES HAD CAREER BEST IN POINTS AND ATTEMPTS when they played with him?
Why? maybe because he takes too many shots than needed even when BJ Armstrong was red hot from the 3pt area?

If you have valid points about why MJ is better Lebron, then bring it maybe I will agree with you but not this pathetic one ok?

[PickernRoller]

3-ball got this nikka seething....:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Walk on Water]

Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for mostly losing... i.e. beating warriors 1 in 4 times, or the spurs 1 in 3, including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing
.


So he should get props for suspending Green and barely winning when he

[Walk on Water]

All those scrimmage games to the finals and getting to face an opponent who just got out of a bloodbath WCF each year, still 3/9. :lol :lol


And the funny thing is he