Do people still think 16' Steph/Klay Warriors would beat MJ/Pippen from 96'?

[3ball]

How could Steph/Klay beat MJ/Pippen? Seems impossible - massive size/athleticism gap plus superior ring count/wisdom/swagger..

the Warriors are a tiny team and would get thoroughly bullied.. Bulls sweep, maybe one of those 5 game sweeps


It's like saying Steph/Klay could beat 2 kawhi's, except MJ/Pippen > 2 kawhi's.. we know MJ scores a lot more than kawhi, while being the best defender ever at his position
.

[bigkingsfan]

Pippen was a nobody, so Steph/Klay by default.

[3ball]

Pippen was a nobody, so Steph/Klay by default.
I'd take pippen over Klay and so would you

[bigkingsfan]

I'd take pippen over Klay and so would you
Klay doesn't ball dominate and better off ball scorer. Pippen was a bum.

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron needed to average 11 rebounds and 9 assists to beat them

Jordan's 4 rebounds and 2 assists wouldn't cut it


Warriors in 5 games




3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

[Marchesk]

3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

Jordan had 41/8.5/6.3 in one finals and 31.2/6.6/11.4 in another.

[Da_Realist]

How could Steph/Klay beat MJ/Pippen? Seems impossible - massive size/athleticism gap plus superior ring count/wisdom/swagger..

the Warriors are a tiny team and would get thoroughly bullied.. Bulls sweep, maybe one of those 5 game sweeps


It's like saying Steph/Klay could beat 2 kawhi's, except MJ/Pippen > 2 kawhi's.. we know MJ scores a lot more than kawhi, while being the best defender ever at his position
.

I was saying this in the middle of the Warriors 73 win season

[warriorfan]

It

[ImKobe]

LeBron needed to average 11 rebounds and 9 assists to beat them

Jordan's 4 rebounds and 2 assists wouldn't cut it


Warriors in 5 games




3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

No he didn't, he needed his teammates to carry him in crunch time.

MJ carried the crunch time scoring and overall scoring production in a way that Lebron could only dream of, MJ could average 40+ and shoot over 50% while Lebron was shooting below 40% in the Finals when trying to score more than 35.

Jordan was capable of averaging 31.2 ppg on 56/50/85 shooting while also putting up 11.4 apg to only 3.6 TO in the same damn series.

He would have averaged 10+ rebounds too if teams shot more 3s. We saw him average 41 ppg 9 rpg on above 50% shooting with 40% from 3 against a run & gun team that shot more 3s, he was more than capable of rebounding the ball.

[3ball]

LeBron needed to average 11 rebounds and 9 assists to beat them

Jordan's 4 rebounds and 2 assists wouldn't cut it


Warriors in 5 games




3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists
Various guys can get around 12 rebounds and 9 assists (Magic, Westbrook, Harden, Jokic, etc.), but only MJ averages 44 on 50%, and against a goat team

And mj was the far better 2-way player - imagine if he let an 8 ppg bench player double their average and win the MVP - that alone makes his performance superior, even without considering goat clutch or his 37 ppg average after adjusting for pace

[iamgine]

Young Kerr would be so shook meeting old Kerr he'd play really badly. Warriors win easily.

[Phoenix]

3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

Explain how Lebron gets 40ppg on more than 40%.

[SpaceJam]

Jordan had 41/8.5/6.3 in one finals and 31.2/6.6/11.4 in another.

Doesn't really look like 11 rebounds and 9 assists does it

I'll ask again...

3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

[hiphopanonymous]

the rules changed

if it's '16 era I think the '16 team wins

if it's '96 era the '96 team wins

totally different defense and offense allowed

for example, all those moving screens on the '16 warriors not to mention the lack of hand check wouldn't fly in '96 - this was KEY to them getting the space to shoot lights out from deep. Without that they'd need to be making 2's and they'd be nowhere near as good at that as the '96 Bulls.

Flip side is Bulls couldn't keep pace if suddenly transported to '16 because they weren't built to keep an offensive pace with accurately shot 3's that take advantage of the modern leeway of moving screens and minimal defensive contact in '16 - they'd likely be trying to catch up to the 3's playing '96 style ball, even if they were effective at it keeping pace with the 3's would be tough with how the game is called in '16

[Da_Realist]

Doesn't matter the era. The Bulls had the perfect team to defend GS and force them to make tough shots to win. They couldn't do it against that length, athleticism and defensive IQ 4 games out of 7. The Bulls front court could switch amd not lose any effectiveness. The only difference in the eras is GS would have a better chance to win a couple of games in 16 than they would have in 96.

On the other side of the ball, Chicago would punish Steph Curry. Chicago was long (6'6" - 6'8") and smart. They'd post up whoever Steph was guarding and get buckets every time down the court. That's just one advantage. MJ would slice up anyone guarding him. Rodman would own the boards because GS has never been a great rebounding team.

I think it would get ugly. 4-5 games. Does anyone really think Cleveland could beat GS but the 96 Bulls couldn't??!

[hiphopanonymous]

Doesn't matter the era. The Bulls had the perfect team to defend GS and force them to make tough shots to win. They couldn't do it against that length, athleticism and defensive IQ 4 games out of 7. The Bulls front court could switch amd not lose any effectiveness. The only difference in the eras is GS would have a better chance to win a couple of games in 16 than they would have in 96.

On the other side of the ball, Chicago would punish Steph Curry. Chicago was long (6'6" - 6'8") and smart. They'd post up whoever Steph was guarding and get buckets every time down the court. That's just one advantage. MJ would slice up anyone guarding him. Rodman would own the boards because GS has never been a great rebounding team.

I think it would get ugly. 4-5 games. Does anyone really think Cleveland could beat GS but the 96 Bulls couldn't??!
The '16 team could light up on anyone in the '16 era including the '96 Bulls. It's not about "who" was defending them. It's about the rules of the era. You can't defend against guys who are allowed to use moving screens and can't be touched. MJ, Rodman or Pippen with all their 1 on 1 defensive ability are at a huge disadvantage if not allowed to initiate contact or have the freedom to fight over or communicate about illegal Bogut/Draymond screens. Good offense always beats good defense with very few exceptions. If there was such thing as a perfect team for an era it's the Warriors being the perfect team for the '16 era - that's why everyone is copying them. You play a different way you're going to be worse. And it's because you won't be able to keep pace with the offense, it's not about stopping the other guys in this era anymore, it's more about how can you best take advantage of the freedom on offense the league has been gifting the current era because the rules now a days are at an all time high in terms of freedom. Thus the efficiency records and whatnot.

[Da_Realist]

The '16 team could light up on anyone in the '16 era including the '96 Bulls. It's not about "who" was defending them. It's about the rules of the era. You can't defend against guys who are allowed to use moving screens and can't be touched. MJ, Rodman or Pippen with all their 1 on 1 defensive ability are at a huge disadvantage if not allowed to initiate contact or have the freedom to fight over or communicate about illegal Bogut/Draymond screens. Good offense always beats good defense with very few exceptions. If there was such thing as a perfect team for an era it's the Warriors being the perfect team for the '16 era - that's why everyone is copying them. You play a different way you're going to be worse. And it's because you won't be able to keep pace with the offense, it's not about stopping the other guys in this era anymore, it's more about how can you best take advantage of the freedom on offense the league has been gifting the current era because the rules now a days are at an all time high in terms of freedom. Thus the efficiency records and whatnot.

Cleveland beat GS by slowing down the game, playing good defense and rebounding. That's also how OKC almost (should have) beaten them. 96 Bulls were infinitely better at that than both of those teams.

The reason GS won so many games was because everyone tried to play like them but weren't as good. There were no different styles. So GS spent the whole year beating lesser versions of themselves.

96 Bulls had to beat different styles. Teams with monsters in the middle, teams that had precision half court games, teams that specialized in fast paced scoring, defensive stalwarts, etc. When GS had to play a team that gave them something different, they looked not just beatable, but unimpressive (losing by nearly 30 points multiple times in the playoffs)

[Phoenix]

Doesn't really look like 11 rebounds and 9 assists does it

I'll ask again...

3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

Why do you assume he needed those numbers to beat Golden State? The triangle isn't going to result in any one player amassing high assist numbers. That is the complete opposite purpose of that system. And he's got Rodman there for rebounding, so why would he need to average 9 boards? It's not like Lebron didn't have his own more than capable rebounders with Tristan and Love. The Warriors and Cavs shot a combined 1155 shots that series; the Jazz and Bulls shot 884 between them in 98. If you need it explained how 271 less shots leads to less rebounding opportunities for all concerned in the 98 finals, I don't know what else to say.

The biggest hurdle for MJ isn't his own production, its whether he's going to have a capable 2nd scoring option or decent enough 3rd/4th option help. Scottie isn't putting up 27ppg nor going off for 40 like Kyrie did to provide the SCORING help needed to keep pace with the Warriors. We know that defensively, a 4some of MJ/Pip/Rodman/Harper are as equipped as anyone the Warriors have played during their run.

[LAmbruh]

96 Bulls would have gotten molly wopped in a much earlier round before facing the Warriors


This isn't 2nd option Jeff Hornacek teams they're going against :oldlol:

[hiphopanonymous]

Cleveland beat GS by slowing down the game, playing good defense and rebounding. That's also how OKC almost (should have) beaten them. 96 Bulls were infinitely better at that than both of those teams.

The reason GS won so many games was because everyone tried to play like them but weren't as good. There were no different styles. So GS spent the whole year beating lesser versions of themselves.

96 Bulls had to beat different styles. Teams with monsters in the middle, teams that had precision half court games, teams that specialized in fast paced scoring, defensive stalwarts, etc. When GS had to play a team that gave them something different, they looked not just beatable, but unimpressive (losing by nearly 30 points multiple times in the playoffs)
Cleveland also set Playoff records in 3 point shooting.

I just don't see the '96 Bulls being able to capitalize on that. They aren't a team of players that played optimally using the 3. You need to be a hard hitting 3 point team to do well in the current expression of the game it isn't about stopping the other guys it's about scoring more points and with how free the offense has it the way to do that is to hit your 3's

[superduper]

LeBron needed to average 11 rebounds and 9 assists to beat them

Jordan's 4 rebounds and 2 assists wouldn't cut it


Warriors in 5 games




3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists

It is unfathomable to me how anyone can be this stupid.

For the sake of your sanity I truly hope you deep down know you are trolling.

[Da_Realist]

Cleveland also set Playoff records in 3 point shooting.

I just don't see the '96 Bulls being able to capitalize on that. They aren't a team of players that played optimally using the 3. You need to be a hard hitting 3 point team to do well in the current expression of the game it isn't about stopping the other guys it's about scoring more points and with how free the offense has it the way to do that is to hit your 3's

That's your belief. GS would have a major problem stopping the Bulls from getting whatever shot they wanted to get. MJ, Pippen, Harper and Kukoc all posted dudes up. Where would GS hide Steph? They couldn't. They'd need to double team. That's when the triangle offense would slice them up. Chicago had guys that could shoot threes, but they'd also do well knocking down open shots anywhere else.

GS would need to live off loooong threes because they wouldn't get any easy looks from within the arc. Chicago was long, athletic and very smart defensively. It was well known GS had issues with turning the ball over. Chicago would eat that up. MJ was lighting fast and Pippen had a 7'0" wingspan. Both were perennial steals leaders. Pip, MJ and Harper closed off those passing angles and made like very difficult for perimeter-oriented teams.

Disadvantages that would doom GS in any era against the 96 Bulls:
* Turnover prone
* Not a good rebounding team
* Physicality hampered their free wheeling style
* Size disadvantage
* No one to guard MJ

[3ball]

Doesn't really look like 11 rebounds and 9 assists does it

I'll ask again...

3ball, explain how Jordan gets 11 rebounds and 9 assists
Explain how lebron gets 40 ppg

Or 11.4 assists without high turnovers... or even playing PG (MJ is the only player to average 10+ APG in a series without being the team's PG)

[3ball]

MJ/Pippen demolished various dynamic duos:

Shaq/Penny
Payton/Kemp
Stockton/Malone


because MJ/Pippen we're better than all these duos.. curry/klay would easily be the weakest duo of the bunch


MJ/Pippen also beat:

Magic/Worthy
Alonzo/Hardaway
Barkley/KJ


Also consider that lebron/kyrie beat curry/klay... In part by bullying their puny, soft asses

[zeerghit]

MJ/Pippen demolished various dynamic duos:

Shaq/Penny
Payton/Kemp
Stockton/Malone


because MJ/Pippen we're better than all these duos.. curry/klay would easily be the weakest duo of the bunch


MJ/Pippen also beat:

Magic/Worthy
Alonzo/Hardaway
Barkley/KJ


Also consider that lebron/kyrie beat curry/klay... In part by bullying their puny, soft asses
sadly ur boy never won against peak bird or isiah, they was bullying that little sh*t badly

[FKAri]

If Klay's hitting his shots, yes.

[3ball]

If Klay's hitting his shots, yes.
:roll:

What a factor to rely on... And such a simple thing to shut down





If Klay's hitting his shots, yes.



This is a very partial list:



Miller 98 ECF - 41.6%

Majerle 93' Finals - 44.3%

Drexler 92' Finals - 40.7%

Rice 92' First Rd - 37.5%

Dumars 91' ECF - 34.7%

Scott 96' ECF - 26.5%

Anderson 96' ECF - 31.1%

Hornacek 97' Finals - 37.6%

Hornacek 98' Finals - 41.1%

Starks 92' ECSF - 42.9%

Starks 96' ECF - 37.7%%


Apparently, it's kinda hard to hit shots on tired legs from defending the goat, and BEING DEFENDED by the goat... :yaohappy:

And Klay goes cold for no reason all the time, no goat defensive duties needed.. :applause:

How much evidence do you need.. Klay wouldn't do shit to MJ - curry/klay would obviously get bullied and destroyed worse than Shaq/Penny did
.

[tpols]

That just shows you how legendary the warriors teamwork was... They had less talent, yet peaked higher statistically. Bulls had great teamwork, but inferior to the dub's.

[3ball]

That just shows you how legendary the warriors teamwork was... They had less talent, yet peaked higher statistically. Bulls had great teamwork, but inferior to the dub's.
What stats are you referring to?

16' Warriors:. 114.5 ortg (13th all-time)
96' Bulls:. 115.2 ortg (6th)
92' Bulls:. 115.5 ortg (2nd)


Maybe you were thinking of the 17' Warriors after adding Durant? They had the #1 all-time ortg, 115.6... but that's only 0.1 more than the 92' bulls and 0.4 more than the 96' bulls, despite a big edge in offensive talent

So no.. the bulls had much better teamwork.. their achievement of goat ortg's with lesser offensive talent proves it
.

[Haymaker]

Excuses. Warriors won their first one when Love and Kyrie were both injured.


It’s hard to tell considering Curry went down with an MCL tear in the first round of the playoffs.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1hNhM9V/41-FCB665-2-A67-4670-9676-92-DED2-DC2566.jpg


With Curry not being near 100% it would be Bulls in 5.
If a healthy Curry was in play then it’s a coin flip that will go to 7 games.

[tpols]

What stats are you referring to?

16' Warriors:. 114.5 ortg (13th all-time)
96' Bulls:. 115.2 ortg (6th)
92' Bulls:. 115.5 ortg (2nd)


The bulls achieved greater offensive production with less offensive talent (aside from MJ)

Maybe you were thinking of the 17' Warriors after adding Durant? They had the #1 all-time ortg, 115.6... but that's only 0.1 more than the 92' bulls and 0.4 more than the 96' bulls, despite a big edge in offensive talent

So no.. the bulls had much better teamwork.. their achievement of goat ortg's with lesser offensive talent proves it
.


team assists per game

'16 warriors - 28.9, 1st rank
'96 bulls - 24.8, 5th rank


:confusedshrug:

[FKAri]

Bulls achieved better offenses with less offensive talent.. :confusedshrug:

How could that happen, if not for better teamwork??

Unless MJ himself is making up the offensive talent gap. Either way....
David Stern made the difference. Meanwhile, the Warriors had poor man's Stern in Silver.

[3ball]

team assists per game

'16 warriors - 28.9, 1st rank
'96 bulls - 24.8, 5th rank


:confusedshrug:
^^^^ that's a good point

You actually made me flip my argument around, so kudos

I've said throughout the thread that MJ/Pippen > curry/Klay

As in they're more talented.. better basketball players

i.e. they have a much bigger talent edge on curry/klay then other guys they faced... Infact, mj/pippen were probably less talented than shaq/penny but had better teamwork... against the warriors, the bulls' top guys are more talented, but still have comparable/goat teamwork

Only a fellow goat fan can trip up another goat fan.. :oldlol:
.

[3ball]

David Stern made the difference. Meanwhile, the Warriors had poor man's Stern in Silver.
Interesting point

Hadn't considered the commissioner.. but it's obviously a factor

[Stephonit]

Sorry to break this to you 3ball but the Warriors' offensive numbers are misleadingly understated. They are lower than they should be. Remember the Warriors' starters in 2016 were routinely sitting out fourth quarters because the games were effectively over by then. Did you factor that into your calculations?

[3ball]

Sorry to break this to you 3ball but the Warriors' offensive numbers are misleadingly understated. They are lower than they should be. Remember the Warriors' starters in 2016 were routinely sitting out fourth quarters because the games were effectively over by then. Did you factor that into your calculations?
That's fair

tpols schooled me on the assist numbers and caught me contradicting myself

I now think it's possible the Warriors could be competitive with the bulls, as their teamwork was truly top-notch

Nonetheless, those bulls had 3 kawhi's and goat athletes (MJ, Pip, Rodman).. Hard for me to see curry/klay beating em', but maybe it wouldn't be a sweep or 5 games..

[StrongLurk]

I CERTAINLY think the 17 Warriors beat the 96 Bulls.

16 is a toss up, 50/50 for me.

[3ball]

I CERTAINLY think the 17 Warriors beat the 96 Bulls.

16 is a toss up, 50/50 for me.
Nah, no one is beating a team with 3 kawhi's defensively

A team with 3 kawhi's can matchup with anyone and lock down anyone, including the 17' warriors

And if the 57-win Cavs can beat the 16' warriors, I'd say it's a lot better than 50/50 that the goat team would do better (the only team to win 70 and the ring).. they wear down and bully the warriors WAY more than the Cavs did

[Young X]

Sorry to break this to you 3ball but the Warriors' offensive numbers are misleadingly understated. They are lower than they should be. Remember the Warriors' starters in 2016 were routinely sitting out fourth quarters because the games were effectively over by then. Did you factor that into your calculations?...and what do you think the Bulls were doing?

Their point differential was even higher than the Warriors' was.

[3ball]

...and what do you think the Bulls were doing?

Their point differential was even higher than the Warriors' was.
I didn't want to embarrass the young curry fan, so I didn't bring up this point ^^^

I've been going easy on them itt because I like curry

But the reality is the bulls would sweep the 16' warriors

Steph/Klay lost to a team in 2016 that doesn't rate historically - so they would get destroyed by the goat team (the only team to win 70 and the ring). Those bulls had superior speed AND size, and also strength, wisdom, swagger, intimidation.. the warriors' coddled, paperboys stand no chance.. hella soft

[And1AllDay]

3baLLLLLL: Do people still think 16' Steph/Klay Warriors would beat MJ/Pippen from 96'?


Yes duh.

2016 Cavs would take them out too
This is the modern era where all players need to play defense and shoot 3s. Mike wouldn't get by on his 23% 3P from his '98 season sorry bruh :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

. Hard for me to see curry/klay beating em', but maybe it wouldn't be a sweep or 5 games..

Draymond
Igoudola
Livingston
Bogut
Speights
Barbosa

...?

I mean do you even watch games past 98' and YouTube?

[3ball]

3baLLLLLL: Do people still think 16' Steph/Klay Warriors would beat MJ/Pippen from 96'?


Yes duh.

2016 Cavs would take them out too
This is the modern era where all players need to play defense and shoot 3s. Mike wouldn't get by on his 23% 3P from his '98 season sorry bruh :oldlol:
We're assuming there's some kind of compromise on the rules and style of play that makes it competitively even for both teams

And yes, the bulls never faced a team with 3 decorated olympians and stars like lebron's cavs.. So it would seem like a challenge, if not for the Cavs' vast inferiority on both sides of the ball... :oldlol: ... despite their crazy talent.. :facepalm

That's why there's no excuse for lebron's Finals record - lebron had the only super-team when he was in Miami and was appropriately favored against the Spurs... And his Cavs and warriors were the only super-teams in recent years

Essentially, his teams have been utterly STACKED, but it's lebron's fault they only won 53 games instead of 73 - he had weak teamwork... Again, the stats back up the eye test.. the Heatles peaked at #62 offensively all-time - that's a J-O-K-E bro - and it proves their underachieving teamwork... Ditto the Cavs, who peaked at #26 and 46.. again, that's a joke with that level of offensive talent.. plus the low team assists...

meanwhile, curry makes himself the dominant favorite with great teamwork.. lebron has no excuse for not doing the same... Except that his ball-dominant skillset prevents great teamwork
.

[72-10]

Pippen was a nobody, so Steph/Klay by default.

this is the most garbage post I've ever read.

[72-10]

Klay doesn't ball dominate and better off ball scorer. Pippen was a bum.

Klay needs screens to score. Pippen didn't, though open looks due to MJ helped. Pippen basically ran the point in a triangle offense in '96.

Can't overlook that Pippen is the greatest defensive player at his position all-time bar none, and Jordan is likewise the greatest defensive player at his position all-time bar none. Pippen's enormous wingspan would probably help him prevent Klay from scoring, but honestly how could any player stop '16 Curry from scoring? '96 Jordan is unstoppable as well since he averaged over 30 points by relying on mid-range fadeaways, but he's not as great an offensive force as '16 Curry. If you had a younger Jordan and '96 Pippen, then the Warriors are certainly losing. As it stands, I give the edge to the Curry/Klay tandem due to Curry.

BTW did you know that Curry and Klay aren't good defenders.

[72-10]

3baLLLLLL: Do people still think 16' Steph/Klay Warriors would beat MJ/Pippen from 96'?


Yes duh.

2016 Cavs would take them out too
This is the modern era where all players need to play defense and shoot 3s. Mike wouldn't get by on his 23% 3P from his '98 season sorry bruh :oldlol:

2016 LeBron + Kyrie would get kilt by '96 MJ and Pip

[72-10]

team assists per game

'16 warriors - 28.9, 1st rank
'96 bulls - 24.8, 5th rank


:confusedshrug:

Assists are awarded more generously now. And what does that have to do with MJ+Pip? Klay averages 2 assists a game.

[DaHeezy]

3ball thinks the '96 Bulls beat the '16 Warriors but then turns around and says '96 Jordan had a weak cast.

Stick to one narrative idiot

[3ball]

3ball thinks the '96 Bulls beat the '16 Warriors but then turns around and says '96 Jordan had a weak cast.

Stick to one narrative idiot
I don't think the Warriors cast was that great either

Curry/Klay isn't some juggernaut - that's why I made the thread - I can't see them beating MJ/Pip

Both the warriors and bulls won with teamwork, except MJ/Pip > curry/klay

[72-10]

is this about the team or the tandem or both